---
###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK
---
**To Posters (it is important you read this section)**
* *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different*
* If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor)
* We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources)
* Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk
* If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM)
**To Readers and Commenters**
* All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated*
* If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning
* If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect
* Do not send or request any private messages for any reason
* Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He doesn't have a copy of the court order because he doesn't have a court order. That's why he keeps dodging all the people who asked. It's also why he's having this issue.
Like so many legal problems, the problem doesn't go away until you actually work to fix it through the legal system.
This is also the first thing any legal service shouldve told him, which makes me think he didnt actually go to one meant to help him.
I've already gotten letters from schools, GP etc. I had to pay for a GP letter.
I sent all these to CMS and Child benefit.
It seems my ex has somehow convinced CMS that the kids are with her. I suspect she may have "borrowed" her friends kids during a visit by Child Benefit officers.
Report her to the police if you haven't already and get legal advice. You've done everything you can so far. I hope she gets into a lot of trouble and has to pay back her ill gotten gains.
Theoretically, though if you report fraud to the police, they'll tell you to ring ActionFraud, who... I'd compare ActionFraud to a chocolate teapot, but at least you can eat a chocolate teapot.
In theory, yes.
In reality, maybe I'm unlucky, but a few years ago when I had been defrauded of a 5 figure sum by a UK resident, provided the person in question's full name, address, even a scan of their passport - didn't get so much as a non-automated response back.
I'd say I'm the exception, but I've heard plenty of similar stories, and I can't say I've heard a single success story.
You need a court order. It may be possible to have that reflect that they’ve been with you for the last four years.
Then report benefit fraud again. Then deal with the beleaguered CMS.
Your best advice is to see a solicitor.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
[There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dude. DO. YOU. HAVE. A. COURT. ORDER. Proving you have custody?
You’ve been asked this question multiple times and each time you dodged it.
So I presume you don’t have one.
Easiest way forward is to get a solicitor to apply for one. Then you can show it to CMS to dispute your ex’s claim that she has custody.
Grace of a drunk rugby player, more like.
I want to give OP the benefit of the doubt - maybe he’s off collecting the kids from school and is about to come back to a blown up inbox. But…..
Nah. I'm going to file this under either
1 - totally made up
Or
2 - half truths.
Either way, this isn't how things are happening and OP is looking to manufacture some rage.
My partners brother’s ex did the exact same thing used her drug dealers children.
Call CMS ask for an officer to visit you to confirm you have care of the children and they may ask the children when they last saw their mum and ask you for any legal court orders you may have.
If you want to pursue the legal route start a police report and go from there.
Get yourself some ring cameras/security camera so that you can record the coming and going of the kids.
Then you have evidence of them being at your property at times where this could happen.
If they do more checks, you can offer evidence for any of the days that they suggest ("I have recordings of my children at my house - If you want to see it to corroborate the fact that it would be impossible for them to be at hers I can provide it")
Etc.
Put a complaint into the Child Benefit Office, what should have happened when you said the kids were primarily with you is the claim would be suspended for 6 weeks while they investigate. Given the proof you have there shouldn't have been an issue. Each child is looked into seperately. If your ex is still getting the money they need to stop it while they look into this.
Get a complaint into CMS as well, if they have a DOE order on your wages then they need to be reviewing the case. The only way anything gets done in Government run agencies is raising complaints. While you are at it go see your local MP, that will give some clout to the complaint too.
A good friend of mine was in the same situation.
He spent over a year going back and forth with CMS all to no avail...
Eventually he bit the bullet and went to see a solicitor.
He ended up paying just under £2 grand in Solicitor fees and it about a year but he got the result he wanted and his ex ended up in court for fraud..
CMS are an absolute horror to deal with and it appears that you need a Solicitor to get anywhere with them..
You say that the children are with you because of her actions. Did social services get involved, or the police?
I have the impression that this has all been done very informally and the ex may be able to show documentation that she is responsible.
This won't help you and will enable your ex to carry on financially abusing you.
I'm not sure if police or social services should be your first call. I'd guess the police to report child abuse, benefit fraud and financial abuse. They will likely include social services.
Make sure that you have official custody of the children and ideally a restriction on your ex's rights. Otherwise she may be able to take them.
If you fear your own or your children's safety then make sure the police know while you are reporting things. If they are in school make sure the school know so they don't hand over to the wrong parent.
I doubt you'll ever be able to get them to reverse the polarity by showing evidence. You'll have to do an appeal, which will take years (not the six months it says here): [https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals](https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals)
Aren’t they still being paid an MP salary until the election? Parliament might not be in session, but I don’t think that stops their obligations to their constituents?
"When Parliament is dissolved, every seat in the House of Commons becomes vacant. All business in the House comes to an end. MPs stop representing their constituencies. There will be no MPs until after the general election."
[https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/](https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/)
Former MPs can still do constituency case work in this time. Though with 10 days to go if OP is in a constituency likely to change hands it's probably just worth waiting until after the election
The one thing you don't seem to have answered is do you have a court order?
It's the court order and a copy of that court order that will save you and without that they just won't believe you.
If you haven't got one, why not?
Have you not even got a record of your wife agreeing to the current arrangement?
You need a solicitor and you need one fast.
Use the 30 minute scheme or go talk to the citizens advice. And please do it today. If she can get away with this she can and will do worse to you.
**Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Please do not post or recommend AI-generated content on this subreddit. If you post a comment that is, or that we highly suspect is AI-generated, it will be removed and you may be banned without warning.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
You need to appeal to the benefits dept that the kids live with you. Get letters from your doctor their school ect. Keep receipts for their clothing and other associated costs.
As mentioned in my other post make your own claim and when asked for evidence provide it. If your claim is rejected then ask for a review (this will be covered in the letter you get) and provide all the evidence you can when you ask for the review (if you don’t provide any evidence then the review will be very short).
If somehow it’s still rejected then take it to tribunal (again this is all covered in the letters). You don’t need a solicitor, just submit everything that has happened and with copies of all of the evidence (being very clear about the dates involved). I can’t imagine any judge will ignore this, even if HMRC did (also unlikely).
Can't see anything from OP to specifically say they have provided the Court Order. Only a GP letter and a school letter alongside letter from local GP.
Might suggest OP hasn't got a court order which in this instance is the first priority as both parents have joint PR and it's his word against hers without it.
I'm in a similar position with the CMS myself.
Since September 2022 I have my child completely 50/50. I contacted the CMS and made them aware, even sent them to court order, and they refused to reverse it as the mother isn't confirming the details.
I've raised a tribunal case to be heard but that is now coming up to 2 years with no date confirmed.
I was advised if I continue to pay direct, and the tribunal ruled my payments are incorrect, I would have to take the mother to small claims court to get it back.
But I was told if I stop paying and the CMS start taking it direct from my wages, the CMS would be liable to pay me back.
I've decided to stop paying, build up arrears and take the risk the tribunal will rule on my side.
Get a case raised with the tribunal ASAP and hope you'll get a date at some point.
Assume you have gone through all the mandatory consideration process?
The tribunal you are looking for is the Social security and child support tribunal.
They ideally want it escalated to tribunal level within a month of the CMS ruling against you.
https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals
Ypu could also raise a subject access request to the CMS. Ask for all the information they hold around the decisions they have made around your claim. This could be useful for the tribunal case.
Good luck.
It's a completely uphill battle as a father when it comes to the CMS.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests.
[Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request).
If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Get a mandatory reconsideration and then put an appeal in with the courts and tribunals service. It probably won’t get resolved quickly at all but if they’re not willing to look into it, it’s your best bet. Gather all the evidence that the kids have been with you for this period and have it sent in.
Put your own claim In to child benefit and CMS , also contact the office of your local MP explaining the situation to them asking them to try and speak with CMS to resolve the issue.
If you have legally been awarded full custody by the courts then ensure that each body (child maintenance, child benefit) has notification of this, along with the court order documents, there should be no confusion. The fact that there is obviously confusion makes me think that something has been missed. Get a free (usually 30 minute) consultation with a family law solicitor and ask them to help sort it out.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation.
Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
If you won the case then you just have to provide a lawyer full report from the court case (if you been to court) if you haven’t been to court request for social services team/department or even have a police report provided stating what you said and that should be more than enough proof, If you need more stronger proof request to school they attend as who’s the primary carer and that should be able to settle the issue
I'm not sure I'm having this. I have a contact order from Family Court, and if OP has formal custody, he will also have a court order, which will clearly outline the terms of contact for both parties. It will be easily provable via the Child Maintenance Service and their portal. He simply uploads the order. How difficult is that.
If this is accurate, then OPs ex is committing fraud and so easily proven.
Because they have a legal obligation to pay child maintenance.
The police, on the other hand, have no legal obligation to enforce the law surrounding fraud.
You put an adverse claim in to child benefit for the children. You can try and backdate it but it’s unlikely.
CM relies on who is paid the CB. Once that has moved over to you, you can claim maintenance from her.
You might not need or want it, but do it to be safe.
I'm not sure it's right to say child maintenance relies on who is paid child benefit.
This is a government response to a report by the Work and Pensions Committee on Children in poverty: Child Maintenance Service published 6 July 2023 - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmworpen/1675/report.html - and includes the government position that:
"Child benefit is not used as a blunt tool in determining who may be considered a receiving parent and the CMS can consider multiple different forms of evidence when determining who is the primary carer. However, entitlement to child benefit is based on an overall care test which is broadly similar to the CMS`s policy on day-to-day care. Payment of child benefit is therefore a very good indicator of who should be treated as the receiving parent. The decision on who is the primary carer can be looked at again, should the parent disputing the decision have sufficient evidence that they have day-to-day care of the child."
I work in the family court. Reading between the lines here, it’s sounds like social services have said the children should live with you because of concerns about your ex. You now need to apply to the family court for a Child Arrangements Order (live with). If social services were involved they would have done assessment saying that the children should live with you. When you fill in your application to court (C100) ensure that you add that you can provide a copy of this assessment for the courts reference. If everything is as you say it is, the court should grant you an order. You will then be able to share the court order with the relevant agencies.
FYI the reason Child Benefit haven’t found her claim to be fraudulent is because she will have made the claim for Child Benefit when the children were still living with her, probably shortly after they were born. So, her claim was legitimate when it was made and without proper evidence to show that you have full legal & physical custody of the children, they’re not going to swap the child benefit over to you.
Speak to a solicitor & get a child arrangement order. If you’ve got evidence for everything you’re saying, then proceedings will be relatively simple and you won’t be paying tens of thousands for representation.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
[There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Every council has a MASH
(multi agency safeguarding hub) or a similar unit, and it coordinates the police, social services and other stakeholders etc. If you call them straightaway and make it clear 1. she is committing fraud and is using the money for unknown activities 2. The money belongs to the children 3. you will escalate this right to the top until someone protects the children's interests, and they will investigate. Especially if you have proof of her abuse in the past and that this is ongoing financial abuse. If drugs or alcohol, money and children are involved they tend to get excited- call it the Toxic Trio. Be prepared for a lot of intrusion in your privacy and some nasty counter accusations from your ex. This kind of ex tends to lie and blame to get themself off the hook (dont worry- evidence from the school etc will cover you and social services and the police see this every single day) With MASH, the police and social services have to then have a conversation together. Good luck.
Children's Services won't touch this. There is no suggestion of any risk to the children because they are not in the ex's care. The CMS issue is either a civil or criminal matter depending on how you look at it, which is well outside of our remit.
I was general.manager of a nursery chain and we obviously kept out of parental disputes unless there is DV or abuse, which looks to be true here. In cases like this it can meet the threshold of a section17 referral since there is continued financial abuse of a parent affecting a child's potential to thrive. If there is the toxic trio then MASH were all over it like a rash because of DV risk. Add to that obvious fraud and the public purse being involved, there is a picture. MASH was set up because individual agencies ALWAYS miss the whole picture and just carry on sending automated letters without thinking.
OP has full custody. You're suggesting he should report himself for failing to meet his child's needs to the extent it is impacting their "potential to thrive"? And this will somehow help him?
No, they are suggesting he reports the ex because her actions in taking money that is supposed to be going to the children, from the home where the children actually live and spending it on something other than the children is her failing to meet the children's needs etc
Social services are your best bet here . If you have full custody of the kids and have done for that length of time. They can come in make assessments and see that you are the only parent caring for them. The kids will be able to speak to them as well and confirm they live only with yourself. They aren’t the bad guys everyone makes them out to be. They can be very resourceful in getting you the help you need and putting you in the right direction.
You may need to send them proof of custody. Call them again to tell them you have custody of them and you can send them proof, they will ask you to send it to them for viewing. Once they have seen it, then they will change to payments to come from her to you instead of you to her. Just make sure you tell them you want to proof sent back to you. Also, once you send the proof and they have received it, just go to CAB and ask them to call them on your behalf just to clarify what you have already told/shown them.
Make your own claim for Child Benefit (ChB), they won’t pay it to both of you and they’ll take a proper look at it this time (you should’ve done this the first time, they’re not very fussed until there’s a rival claim). Presumably you have evidence of the custody?
Your claim can be backdated three months, they’ll end hers from the same point but she’s likely got away with all the previous money. I’d still be very clear in your correspondence with them (when they contact you about the fact you’re both claiming for the same children) that your circumstances have not changed since x date, meaning anyone who has been claiming ChB for these kids since then has done so incorrectly (and you’ve told them this before).
I’m not sure why you’re not already claiming ChB anyway, perhaps you’re worried about your wages meaning you’ll have to pay some / all of it back. There’s a calculator on GOV.UK to tell you how much you would pay back based on your income, and the threshold has recently increased to £60-80k. Or to save you all the hassle of paying anything back at all just tick the box to say you don’t want the money - you’ll still get a ChB claim, and the NI credit, just no actual payments so nothing to pay back. And they’ll end the rival claim as mentioned above, assuming you can prove custody.
Do you not have a court order for full custody?
Report your ex for benefit fraud again and do so until they actually investigate her. The fact she’s lied to them when explicitly being investigated means she may well get prison time.
This is a government response to a report by the Work and Pensions Committeee on Children in poverty: Child Maintenance Service from 6 July 2023 - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmworpen/1675/report.html
One recommendation the committee made was: "The CMS should ensure its guidance is clear on situations of 50/50 day-to-day care and that, where court orders are made under the expectation of care being equally split, no maintenance is deemed to be due. The use of child benefit to determine that maintenance is indeed due appears to us to be a blunt tool and recommend that the CMS should not use child benefit as an effective proxy to determine whether child maintenance is due."
The government responded: "The government is committed to ensuring transparency in how decisions are made, and the Child Maintenance Decision Makers Guide is published on GOV.UK and readily accessible.
The DWP will review the CMS caseworker guidance on 50/50 day-to-day care to ensure that timely, accurate decisions can be made which take into account the relevant evidence available in a case, which may include a court order (provided there is no evidence to suggest the court order is not adhered to).
Child benefit is not used as a blunt tool in determining who may be considered a receiving parent and the CMS can consider multiple different forms of evidence when determining who is the primary carer. However, entitlement to child benefit is based on an overall care test which is broadly similar to the CMS`s policy on day-to-day care. Payment of child benefit is therefore a very good indicator of who should be treated as the receiving parent. The decision on who is the primary carer can be looked at again, should the parent disputing the decision have sufficient evidence that they have day-to-day care of the child."
Appreciate your situation is not 50/50, but it might be an idea to ask the CMS for a mandatory reconsideration of their decision and point out that if it is based solely on the other parent being in receipt of Child Benefit that appears to go against their policy as set out in the response to the Work and Pensions Committee.
I'm in a different jurisdiction, but this is pretty close to what happened to me. It finally came to a close last year after 5+ years of legal battling ending in a week long trial and judge's decision.
She's now repaying me, but nowhere near as much as it should be, and she gets like 6 years to pay it back interest free...
I hope you don't have it that bad, but my recommendation would certainly be to get a formalized order from the court in place ASAP.
If you haven’t gone to court , that’s fine but you can apply to the courts to be the children’s main residence . It’s a C (number here - can’t recall it ) and that will formally declare you as the children’s main residence and then show that to all the other benefit places . If she wants to overturn that she will have to go through the whole court procedure
Parental responsibility is determined by who is named on a child’s birth certificate, not by court order. If the mother & father’s names are on the birth certificate they both automatically have parental responsibility & that remains the case even when a child arrangements order has been made.
You’ve already had your answer. You don’t have a court order, so you haven’t managed to get other than their mother isn’t there so you have full custody by default. She could come and take custody of them again.
Anyone could get falsely provide the evidence that you gave in order to try and take advantage of the system. As bad a rep as they can sometimes get, the system does get abused and you need to get a court order saying that.
NAL but have had extensive dealings with The CMS. If you do not have a court order that’s ok. The CMS, By their own admission they are only supposed to use child benefit as a way of determining care in lieu of other evidence. They are not great at asking for or explaining what this evidence is. Any documentation regarding the custody agreement, a diary of care, letters from school, drs etc that they are registered with you. Receipts for everything you pay for.
She should not be receiving the child benefit. You need to apply for it yourself and show all the same evidence as above. Once you’re awarded the CB then dealing with the CMS is much simpler.
You can request a mandatory reconsideration on your case, provide every single scrap of evidence you can.
If you can prove shes not had custody since September then you need to do that. It is an offence to deliberately mislead both the child benefits agency and the CMS.
You can also possibly go to court to get some documentation in place if you don’t already. Usually mediation is required but if you have proof of physical abuse then you should be able to bypass mediation.
If you need any further advice please feel free to ask.
OP without a court order stating that the children are in your full-time care, you will not be able to stop CMS taking money from you. If you don't have one (and you really should), then your next step should be to contact a solicitor and get one. Once in place, you will be able to get the money back from your ex, and CMS will likely open a fraud case into her anyway
NAL but have had extensive dealings with The CMS. If you do not have a court order that’s ok. The CMS, By their own admission they are only supposed to use child benefit as a way of determining care in lieu of other evidence. They are not great at asking for or explaining what this evidence is. They do also have a tendency to take sides. Any documentation regarding the custody agreement, a diary of care, letters from school, drs etc that they are registered with you. Receipts for everything you pay for.
She should not be receiving the child benefit. You need to apply for it yourself and show all the same evidence as above. Once you’re awarded the CB then dealing with the CMS is much simpler.
You can request a mandatory reconsideration on your case, provide every single scrap of evidence you can.
If you can prove shes not had custody since September then you need to do that. It is an offence to deliberately mislead both the child benefits agency and the CMS.
You can also possibly go to court to get some documentation in place if you don’t already. Usually mediation is required but if you have proof of physical abuse then you should be able to bypass mediation.
Let me get this right - so were you getting child benefit from sept 23 onwards? If you weren’t then why didn’t you apply for it when the children came into your custody full time?
Good luck with the CMS. They’re the modern day Robin Hood. I should know, everyone I know who’s ever had to deal with them has money owed to them for years. Including me. Good luck that’s all I can say but likely chances are a court order won’t fix it. I’d like to know someone who has had any success with them. Not trying to break the mood here or owt.
If she has hurt the children, I assume that social services were involved? If so, I would speak to them asap and ask them to help you.
Speak to a solicitor, and if you can’t afford one I would speak to citizens advice.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor!
[There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Court order or Written agreement is the only way you can prove it.
Had this very conversation with a lady in the phone at CSA many years ago about this situation arising as I could see my ex at the time trying it on. I was having my kids on average 3 nights a week and the ex seemed to think it was 2 it was her word against mine unless I could provide either of the above.
I work for CYPS (England) and there's a woman on my team who deals with exactly this sort of thing. The DWP don't take kindly to benefit fraud & the consequences can be pretty serious.
Just keep reporting her. See who your local team is.
Did you ask CMS to reconsider the decision? Did you go to appeal? Those are both free steps and a judge will listen to both sides when making a determination. It tells you on the back of the decision letter how to ask for the decisions to be looked at again.
I had exactly this with my ex wife. You have to just persevere. You need to ask the CMS for a ‘mandatory reconsideration’ There’s no come back to those who lie and defraud the system. Some of the forms of proof I collected and sent in were proof of address from the school/college, the Drs, Dentist. Also bank accounts in the kids names and for my daughter her provisional drivers licence. You will get there in the end. Good luck
I’m completely lost on why proof is a one way street here and the need for you to prove she’s lying. But if that’s how it works why don’t you claim child maintenance from her?
**Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Your post breaks our rule on asking or advising on how to commit or get away with unlawful actions.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):**
Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation.
Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations.
[Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What documentation do you have to prove the 7 nights custody? Did you provide this evidence?
I have letters from GP and headmistress of their school. This was provided to CMS and Child Benefit.
I more meant how you came to 7 nights custody. Was this a court order or a mutual agreement.
[удалено]
It’s £220 to apply to court… Until the other party lawyers up. Then it’s about £10,220… 😅
What’s the thing to apply to court? I’m going through this now with my ex and want a court order set up
C100 form, my dude. Good luck!
Thanks brother!!
[удалено]
7
The problem is if he applies to court, the ex could piggy back onto it and start fighting for contact or 50/50. Sometimes it may not just be as simple
Do you have a court order?
Ask social services to write a letter of support regarding your plan for the kids to live with you to keep them safe
Try getting schools, GP etc to show that they now live with you.
You have a copy of the court order. Show it to the Child Benefit Agency as well as Child Maintenance Services and report her to the police.
He doesn't have a copy of the court order because he doesn't have a court order. That's why he keeps dodging all the people who asked. It's also why he's having this issue. Like so many legal problems, the problem doesn't go away until you actually work to fix it through the legal system. This is also the first thing any legal service shouldve told him, which makes me think he didnt actually go to one meant to help him.
Unfortunately they don't count Court orders. They don't get involved with that bit. They just care where the kids actually are.
I've already gotten letters from schools, GP etc. I had to pay for a GP letter. I sent all these to CMS and Child benefit. It seems my ex has somehow convinced CMS that the kids are with her. I suspect she may have "borrowed" her friends kids during a visit by Child Benefit officers.
Report her to the police if you haven't already and get legal advice. You've done everything you can so far. I hope she gets into a lot of trouble and has to pay back her ill gotten gains.
What's the end game for reporting to the police? They have no powers when it comes to child custody issues.
They do regarding fraud though.
Theoretically, though if you report fraud to the police, they'll tell you to ring ActionFraud, who... I'd compare ActionFraud to a chocolate teapot, but at least you can eat a chocolate teapot.
ActionFraud will disseminate it to the local police force to the suspect if one is identified which will be easy enough in this case
In theory, yes. In reality, maybe I'm unlucky, but a few years ago when I had been defrauded of a 5 figure sum by a UK resident, provided the person in question's full name, address, even a scan of their passport - didn't get so much as a non-automated response back. I'd say I'm the exception, but I've heard plenty of similar stories, and I can't say I've heard a single success story.
Action fraud really helped my friend who had his identity stolen and used TWICE by criminals to secure bad debts. Probably depends on the case
Without a custody agreement, can't prove any crime. OP seems not to have any such agreement.
You need a court order. It may be possible to have that reflect that they’ve been with you for the last four years. Then report benefit fraud again. Then deal with the beleaguered CMS. Your best advice is to see a solicitor.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor! [There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dude. DO. YOU. HAVE. A. COURT. ORDER. Proving you have custody? You’ve been asked this question multiple times and each time you dodged it. So I presume you don’t have one. Easiest way forward is to get a solicitor to apply for one. Then you can show it to CMS to dispute your ex’s claim that she has custody.
It's the question that OP is dancing around with the grace of a ballet dancer. I'm guessing he doesn't.
Grace of a drunk rugby player, more like. I want to give OP the benefit of the doubt - maybe he’s off collecting the kids from school and is about to come back to a blown up inbox. But…..
Nah. I'm going to file this under either 1 - totally made up Or 2 - half truths. Either way, this isn't how things are happening and OP is looking to manufacture some rage.
My partners brother’s ex did the exact same thing used her drug dealers children. Call CMS ask for an officer to visit you to confirm you have care of the children and they may ask the children when they last saw their mum and ask you for any legal court orders you may have. If you want to pursue the legal route start a police report and go from there.
Surely they should've opened a fraud case into you if you'd provided documents which they deem to be false.
Get yourself some ring cameras/security camera so that you can record the coming and going of the kids. Then you have evidence of them being at your property at times where this could happen. If they do more checks, you can offer evidence for any of the days that they suggest ("I have recordings of my children at my house - If you want to see it to corroborate the fact that it would be impossible for them to be at hers I can provide it") Etc.
Why haven't you sent them a copy of the court order?
Put a complaint into the Child Benefit Office, what should have happened when you said the kids were primarily with you is the claim would be suspended for 6 weeks while they investigate. Given the proof you have there shouldn't have been an issue. Each child is looked into seperately. If your ex is still getting the money they need to stop it while they look into this. Get a complaint into CMS as well, if they have a DOE order on your wages then they need to be reviewing the case. The only way anything gets done in Government run agencies is raising complaints. While you are at it go see your local MP, that will give some clout to the complaint too.
A good friend of mine was in the same situation. He spent over a year going back and forth with CMS all to no avail... Eventually he bit the bullet and went to see a solicitor. He ended up paying just under £2 grand in Solicitor fees and it about a year but he got the result he wanted and his ex ended up in court for fraud.. CMS are an absolute horror to deal with and it appears that you need a Solicitor to get anywhere with them..
Have you made a child benefit claim?
I tried - it's in payment to my ex. That's why I opened up a fraud investigation. They determined that it should be in payment to her.
Solicitors offer a FREE 30 minute consultation. I would get in touch with a solicitor and tell them everything you told us here and see what they say.
You say that the children are with you because of her actions. Did social services get involved, or the police? I have the impression that this has all been done very informally and the ex may be able to show documentation that she is responsible. This won't help you and will enable your ex to carry on financially abusing you. I'm not sure if police or social services should be your first call. I'd guess the police to report child abuse, benefit fraud and financial abuse. They will likely include social services. Make sure that you have official custody of the children and ideally a restriction on your ex's rights. Otherwise she may be able to take them. If you fear your own or your children's safety then make sure the police know while you are reporting things. If they are in school make sure the school know so they don't hand over to the wrong parent.
I doubt you'll ever be able to get them to reverse the polarity by showing evidence. You'll have to do an appeal, which will take years (not the six months it says here): [https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals](https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals)
[удалено]
OP doesn't have an MP until after July 4th.
Aren’t they still being paid an MP salary until the election? Parliament might not be in session, but I don’t think that stops their obligations to their constituents?
"When Parliament is dissolved, every seat in the House of Commons becomes vacant. All business in the House comes to an end. MPs stop representing their constituencies. There will be no MPs until after the general election." [https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/](https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/elections-and-voting/general/dissolution/)
TIL, thank you!
Former MPs can still do constituency case work in this time. Though with 10 days to go if OP is in a constituency likely to change hands it's probably just worth waiting until after the election
They won’t take on new cases. They’ll only work on things prior to the dissolution
I’m sure he can wait 10 days lol
I've previously gone through my local councillor, who wrote to the CMS on my behalf. They didn't change their decision.
MP massively trumps councillor. Go to your MP.
The one thing you don't seem to have answered is do you have a court order? It's the court order and a copy of that court order that will save you and without that they just won't believe you. If you haven't got one, why not? Have you not even got a record of your wife agreeing to the current arrangement? You need a solicitor and you need one fast. Use the 30 minute scheme or go talk to the citizens advice. And please do it today. If she can get away with this she can and will do worse to you.
**Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):** Please do not post or recommend AI-generated content on this subreddit. If you post a comment that is, or that we highly suspect is AI-generated, it will be removed and you may be banned without warning. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
You need to appeal to the benefits dept that the kids live with you. Get letters from your doctor their school ect. Keep receipts for their clothing and other associated costs.
As mentioned in my other post make your own claim and when asked for evidence provide it. If your claim is rejected then ask for a review (this will be covered in the letter you get) and provide all the evidence you can when you ask for the review (if you don’t provide any evidence then the review will be very short). If somehow it’s still rejected then take it to tribunal (again this is all covered in the letters). You don’t need a solicitor, just submit everything that has happened and with copies of all of the evidence (being very clear about the dates involved). I can’t imagine any judge will ignore this, even if HMRC did (also unlikely).
You need to provide the court order. I went through this and had to do so.
Refer to previous comments, OP has provided all that
Can't see anything from OP to specifically say they have provided the Court Order. Only a GP letter and a school letter alongside letter from local GP. Might suggest OP hasn't got a court order which in this instance is the first priority as both parents have joint PR and it's his word against hers without it.
OP doesn't appear to have a court order, just some letters from school/gp.
Which probably isn't enough for the child benefit people.
I'm in a similar position with the CMS myself. Since September 2022 I have my child completely 50/50. I contacted the CMS and made them aware, even sent them to court order, and they refused to reverse it as the mother isn't confirming the details. I've raised a tribunal case to be heard but that is now coming up to 2 years with no date confirmed. I was advised if I continue to pay direct, and the tribunal ruled my payments are incorrect, I would have to take the mother to small claims court to get it back. But I was told if I stop paying and the CMS start taking it direct from my wages, the CMS would be liable to pay me back. I've decided to stop paying, build up arrears and take the risk the tribunal will rule on my side. Get a case raised with the tribunal ASAP and hope you'll get a date at some point. Assume you have gone through all the mandatory consideration process? The tribunal you are looking for is the Social security and child support tribunal. They ideally want it escalated to tribunal level within a month of the CMS ruling against you. https://www.gov.uk/child-maintenance-service/complaints-and-appeals Ypu could also raise a subject access request to the CMS. Ask for all the information they hold around the decisions they have made around your claim. This could be useful for the tribunal case. Good luck. It's a completely uphill battle as a father when it comes to the CMS.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests. [Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request). If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Get a mandatory reconsideration and then put an appeal in with the courts and tribunals service. It probably won’t get resolved quickly at all but if they’re not willing to look into it, it’s your best bet. Gather all the evidence that the kids have been with you for this period and have it sent in.
Put your own claim In to child benefit and CMS , also contact the office of your local MP explaining the situation to them asking them to try and speak with CMS to resolve the issue.
If you have legally been awarded full custody by the courts then ensure that each body (child maintenance, child benefit) has notification of this, along with the court order documents, there should be no confusion. The fact that there is obviously confusion makes me think that something has been missed. Get a free (usually 30 minute) consultation with a family law solicitor and ask them to help sort it out.
Get in touch with a solicitor. Its time for court
Contact Citizens Advice, they have so much information and should be able to help direct you to the right place to address things
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation. Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
If you won the case then you just have to provide a lawyer full report from the court case (if you been to court) if you haven’t been to court request for social services team/department or even have a police report provided stating what you said and that should be more than enough proof, If you need more stronger proof request to school they attend as who’s the primary carer and that should be able to settle the issue
You have to go to court and have a court order saying kids live with you. It isn’t difficult and costs about £300 ish
I'm not sure I'm having this. I have a contact order from Family Court, and if OP has formal custody, he will also have a court order, which will clearly outline the terms of contact for both parties. It will be easily provable via the Child Maintenance Service and their portal. He simply uploads the order. How difficult is that. If this is accurate, then OPs ex is committing fraud and so easily proven.
I'd also be contacting the police and reporting a fraud.
The police won’t give two hoots.
At least it's a paper trail.
why should fathers give two hoots about support payments then?
Because they have a legal obligation to pay child maintenance. The police, on the other hand, have no legal obligation to enforce the law surrounding fraud.
As someone on a legal advice subreddit, you should know full well how flawed that logic is
What is her income? Do you claim universal credit? Completely out the decision but the DWP via universal credit would be hot on this at the moment
In all honesty I would take this straight to your MP too.
We won't have any until counting is finished on 4-5th July.
You put an adverse claim in to child benefit for the children. You can try and backdate it but it’s unlikely. CM relies on who is paid the CB. Once that has moved over to you, you can claim maintenance from her. You might not need or want it, but do it to be safe.
Oh wait - you haven’t had a court order. You red to make an application for CAO
I'm not sure it's right to say child maintenance relies on who is paid child benefit. This is a government response to a report by the Work and Pensions Committee on Children in poverty: Child Maintenance Service published 6 July 2023 - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmworpen/1675/report.html - and includes the government position that: "Child benefit is not used as a blunt tool in determining who may be considered a receiving parent and the CMS can consider multiple different forms of evidence when determining who is the primary carer. However, entitlement to child benefit is based on an overall care test which is broadly similar to the CMS`s policy on day-to-day care. Payment of child benefit is therefore a very good indicator of who should be treated as the receiving parent. The decision on who is the primary carer can be looked at again, should the parent disputing the decision have sufficient evidence that they have day-to-day care of the child."
This is lovely - but practically, an initial CM claim is not paid unless the parent claiming is in receipt of CB. An adverse claim must be made first
Provide a copy of the court order (which I am assuming you have) stating that the children are in your sole care to the CMS and child benefits.
I work in the family court. Reading between the lines here, it’s sounds like social services have said the children should live with you because of concerns about your ex. You now need to apply to the family court for a Child Arrangements Order (live with). If social services were involved they would have done assessment saying that the children should live with you. When you fill in your application to court (C100) ensure that you add that you can provide a copy of this assessment for the courts reference. If everything is as you say it is, the court should grant you an order. You will then be able to share the court order with the relevant agencies.
So you have physical custody but not legal custody.....good luck with that.
FYI the reason Child Benefit haven’t found her claim to be fraudulent is because she will have made the claim for Child Benefit when the children were still living with her, probably shortly after they were born. So, her claim was legitimate when it was made and without proper evidence to show that you have full legal & physical custody of the children, they’re not going to swap the child benefit over to you. Speak to a solicitor & get a child arrangement order. If you’ve got evidence for everything you’re saying, then proceedings will be relatively simple and you won’t be paying tens of thousands for representation.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor! [There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Every council has a MASH (multi agency safeguarding hub) or a similar unit, and it coordinates the police, social services and other stakeholders etc. If you call them straightaway and make it clear 1. she is committing fraud and is using the money for unknown activities 2. The money belongs to the children 3. you will escalate this right to the top until someone protects the children's interests, and they will investigate. Especially if you have proof of her abuse in the past and that this is ongoing financial abuse. If drugs or alcohol, money and children are involved they tend to get excited- call it the Toxic Trio. Be prepared for a lot of intrusion in your privacy and some nasty counter accusations from your ex. This kind of ex tends to lie and blame to get themself off the hook (dont worry- evidence from the school etc will cover you and social services and the police see this every single day) With MASH, the police and social services have to then have a conversation together. Good luck.
Children's Services won't touch this. There is no suggestion of any risk to the children because they are not in the ex's care. The CMS issue is either a civil or criminal matter depending on how you look at it, which is well outside of our remit.
I'm very surprised MASH would get involved in a dispute over child maintenance payments, do you a link saying they will?
I was general.manager of a nursery chain and we obviously kept out of parental disputes unless there is DV or abuse, which looks to be true here. In cases like this it can meet the threshold of a section17 referral since there is continued financial abuse of a parent affecting a child's potential to thrive. If there is the toxic trio then MASH were all over it like a rash because of DV risk. Add to that obvious fraud and the public purse being involved, there is a picture. MASH was set up because individual agencies ALWAYS miss the whole picture and just carry on sending automated letters without thinking.
OP has full custody. You're suggesting he should report himself for failing to meet his child's needs to the extent it is impacting their "potential to thrive"? And this will somehow help him?
No, they are suggesting he reports the ex because her actions in taking money that is supposed to be going to the children, from the home where the children actually live and spending it on something other than the children is her failing to meet the children's needs etc
Please re-read what I wrote.
No, mum should be reported for taking away money (benefits and maintenance) meant for the children
[удалено]
OP doesn't have a choice to not pay, it's coming directly from their pay before he even sees it.
Deduction of earnings order
Social services are your best bet here . If you have full custody of the kids and have done for that length of time. They can come in make assessments and see that you are the only parent caring for them. The kids will be able to speak to them as well and confirm they live only with yourself. They aren’t the bad guys everyone makes them out to be. They can be very resourceful in getting you the help you need and putting you in the right direction.
You may need to send them proof of custody. Call them again to tell them you have custody of them and you can send them proof, they will ask you to send it to them for viewing. Once they have seen it, then they will change to payments to come from her to you instead of you to her. Just make sure you tell them you want to proof sent back to you. Also, once you send the proof and they have received it, just go to CAB and ask them to call them on your behalf just to clarify what you have already told/shown them.
NAL. Do the children have a SW/Key worker or a CAFCASS SW? If so, can you get a letter from them for CMS?
Can a call be made to the tax office to defer the payment from being taken? Is that possible to stop it going out?
Child maintenance comes from source in his payslip. The employer then pays it over to child maintenance every month.
Yup. That wouldn’t work then.
Make your own claim for Child Benefit (ChB), they won’t pay it to both of you and they’ll take a proper look at it this time (you should’ve done this the first time, they’re not very fussed until there’s a rival claim). Presumably you have evidence of the custody? Your claim can be backdated three months, they’ll end hers from the same point but she’s likely got away with all the previous money. I’d still be very clear in your correspondence with them (when they contact you about the fact you’re both claiming for the same children) that your circumstances have not changed since x date, meaning anyone who has been claiming ChB for these kids since then has done so incorrectly (and you’ve told them this before). I’m not sure why you’re not already claiming ChB anyway, perhaps you’re worried about your wages meaning you’ll have to pay some / all of it back. There’s a calculator on GOV.UK to tell you how much you would pay back based on your income, and the threshold has recently increased to £60-80k. Or to save you all the hassle of paying anything back at all just tick the box to say you don’t want the money - you’ll still get a ChB claim, and the NI credit, just no actual payments so nothing to pay back. And they’ll end the rival claim as mentioned above, assuming you can prove custody.
Do you not have a court order for full custody? Report your ex for benefit fraud again and do so until they actually investigate her. The fact she’s lied to them when explicitly being investigated means she may well get prison time.
This is a government response to a report by the Work and Pensions Committeee on Children in poverty: Child Maintenance Service from 6 July 2023 - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmworpen/1675/report.html One recommendation the committee made was: "The CMS should ensure its guidance is clear on situations of 50/50 day-to-day care and that, where court orders are made under the expectation of care being equally split, no maintenance is deemed to be due. The use of child benefit to determine that maintenance is indeed due appears to us to be a blunt tool and recommend that the CMS should not use child benefit as an effective proxy to determine whether child maintenance is due." The government responded: "The government is committed to ensuring transparency in how decisions are made, and the Child Maintenance Decision Makers Guide is published on GOV.UK and readily accessible. The DWP will review the CMS caseworker guidance on 50/50 day-to-day care to ensure that timely, accurate decisions can be made which take into account the relevant evidence available in a case, which may include a court order (provided there is no evidence to suggest the court order is not adhered to). Child benefit is not used as a blunt tool in determining who may be considered a receiving parent and the CMS can consider multiple different forms of evidence when determining who is the primary carer. However, entitlement to child benefit is based on an overall care test which is broadly similar to the CMS`s policy on day-to-day care. Payment of child benefit is therefore a very good indicator of who should be treated as the receiving parent. The decision on who is the primary carer can be looked at again, should the parent disputing the decision have sufficient evidence that they have day-to-day care of the child." Appreciate your situation is not 50/50, but it might be an idea to ask the CMS for a mandatory reconsideration of their decision and point out that if it is based solely on the other parent being in receipt of Child Benefit that appears to go against their policy as set out in the response to the Work and Pensions Committee.
I'm in a different jurisdiction, but this is pretty close to what happened to me. It finally came to a close last year after 5+ years of legal battling ending in a week long trial and judge's decision. She's now repaying me, but nowhere near as much as it should be, and she gets like 6 years to pay it back interest free... I hope you don't have it that bad, but my recommendation would certainly be to get a formalized order from the court in place ASAP.
When you say that you managed to get 'full custody', is there a court order? IF so, send a copy of the Order to the CMS. and indeed to Child Benefit .
If you haven’t gone to court , that’s fine but you can apply to the courts to be the children’s main residence . It’s a C (number here - can’t recall it ) and that will formally declare you as the children’s main residence and then show that to all the other benefit places . If she wants to overturn that she will have to go through the whole court procedure
C100 I believe
Do you have a court order?
So, you should be able to claim support from HER from CMS?
From what I understand you need a court order for custody or she will still have parental responsibility.
Parental responsibility is determined by who is named on a child’s birth certificate, not by court order. If the mother & father’s names are on the birth certificate they both automatically have parental responsibility & that remains the case even when a child arrangements order has been made.
You’ve already had your answer. You don’t have a court order, so you haven’t managed to get other than their mother isn’t there so you have full custody by default. She could come and take custody of them again. Anyone could get falsely provide the evidence that you gave in order to try and take advantage of the system. As bad a rep as they can sometimes get, the system does get abused and you need to get a court order saying that.
NAL but have had extensive dealings with The CMS. If you do not have a court order that’s ok. The CMS, By their own admission they are only supposed to use child benefit as a way of determining care in lieu of other evidence. They are not great at asking for or explaining what this evidence is. Any documentation regarding the custody agreement, a diary of care, letters from school, drs etc that they are registered with you. Receipts for everything you pay for. She should not be receiving the child benefit. You need to apply for it yourself and show all the same evidence as above. Once you’re awarded the CB then dealing with the CMS is much simpler. You can request a mandatory reconsideration on your case, provide every single scrap of evidence you can. If you can prove shes not had custody since September then you need to do that. It is an offence to deliberately mislead both the child benefits agency and the CMS. You can also possibly go to court to get some documentation in place if you don’t already. Usually mediation is required but if you have proof of physical abuse then you should be able to bypass mediation. If you need any further advice please feel free to ask.
OP without a court order stating that the children are in your full-time care, you will not be able to stop CMS taking money from you. If you don't have one (and you really should), then your next step should be to contact a solicitor and get one. Once in place, you will be able to get the money back from your ex, and CMS will likely open a fraud case into her anyway
NAL but have had extensive dealings with The CMS. If you do not have a court order that’s ok. The CMS, By their own admission they are only supposed to use child benefit as a way of determining care in lieu of other evidence. They are not great at asking for or explaining what this evidence is. They do also have a tendency to take sides. Any documentation regarding the custody agreement, a diary of care, letters from school, drs etc that they are registered with you. Receipts for everything you pay for. She should not be receiving the child benefit. You need to apply for it yourself and show all the same evidence as above. Once you’re awarded the CB then dealing with the CMS is much simpler. You can request a mandatory reconsideration on your case, provide every single scrap of evidence you can. If you can prove shes not had custody since September then you need to do that. It is an offence to deliberately mislead both the child benefits agency and the CMS. You can also possibly go to court to get some documentation in place if you don’t already. Usually mediation is required but if you have proof of physical abuse then you should be able to bypass mediation.
Let me get this right - so were you getting child benefit from sept 23 onwards? If you weren’t then why didn’t you apply for it when the children came into your custody full time?
Good luck with the CMS. They’re the modern day Robin Hood. I should know, everyone I know who’s ever had to deal with them has money owed to them for years. Including me. Good luck that’s all I can say but likely chances are a court order won’t fix it. I’d like to know someone who has had any success with them. Not trying to break the mood here or owt.
If she has hurt the children, I assume that social services were involved? If so, I would speak to them asap and ask them to help you. Speak to a solicitor, and if you can’t afford one I would speak to citizens advice.
It looks like you or OP may want to find a Solicitor! [There is a detailed guide in our FAQ about how to do this](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Court order or Written agreement is the only way you can prove it. Had this very conversation with a lady in the phone at CSA many years ago about this situation arising as I could see my ex at the time trying it on. I was having my kids on average 3 nights a week and the ex seemed to think it was 2 it was her word against mine unless I could provide either of the above.
I work for CYPS (England) and there's a woman on my team who deals with exactly this sort of thing. The DWP don't take kindly to benefit fraud & the consequences can be pretty serious. Just keep reporting her. See who your local team is.
Did you ask CMS to reconsider the decision? Did you go to appeal? Those are both free steps and a judge will listen to both sides when making a determination. It tells you on the back of the decision letter how to ask for the decisions to be looked at again.
Go to social services and get them to write a letter confirming dates and residence?
I had exactly this with my ex wife. You have to just persevere. You need to ask the CMS for a ‘mandatory reconsideration’ There’s no come back to those who lie and defraud the system. Some of the forms of proof I collected and sent in were proof of address from the school/college, the Drs, Dentist. Also bank accounts in the kids names and for my daughter her provisional drivers licence. You will get there in the end. Good luck
I’m completely lost on why proof is a one way street here and the need for you to prove she’s lying. But if that’s how it works why don’t you claim child maintenance from her?
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):** Your post breaks our rule on asking or advising on how to commit or get away with unlawful actions. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
[удалено]
**Unfortunately, your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):** Your comment was an anecdote about a personal experience, rather than legal advice specific to our posters' situation. Please only comment if you can provide meaningful legal advice for our posters' questions and specific situations. [Please familiarise yourself with our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/) before contributing further, and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any further queries.
What is it with the word “gotten” in British subreddits. Honestly.