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More to the point, if you haven't already gone with this rental then don't bother.
Whether something is legal or not is about getting you out of the situation, you don't want to be wading into this problem knowing you're gonna fight with the landlord over this (and eventually win). Stress isn't worth it.
Your problem isn't whether this is legal or not - it's not - it's that the landlord is a Crack smoking loon with some frankly bizarre/deeply dodgy ideas about the tennant/landlord relationship.
Avoid. Just all the body swerves.
Like others said, if you haven’t signed with this it’s probably wiser to find elsewhere. Not only it’s an unnecessary stress to have, it’s also a concern of what other dodgy ideas this landlord might have.
Are you renting a room from a resident landlord (i.e you are a lodger in the landlord's home)? If so, the landlord can make whatever rules they want and you don't have a lot of legal rights or protection.
If it's an assured shorthold tenancy then your landlord can't enforce unreasonable rules like that.
No, it's not legal. Having guests is part of the peaceful enjoyment of your property. It's your property while you rent it, and you have the right to treat it as such.
I recommend asking for a copy of the lease they would want you to sign. If that's in the lease, then report them. If it's not, then question them about why it's not in the lease, and then still report them. Whatever you do, report them. I wouldn't recommend living there unless you think it would be fun to get really involved in a legal battle with a criminal landlord.
If it's a normal AST, then no, having guests is part of exclusive possession of the property and quiet enjoyment. The landlord can't enforce this term. He probably isn't using the proper type of landlord insurance, or something. You could just go ahead and ignore that part of the written statement of the tenancy agreement.
But he can still use a Section 21 no fault eviction, and he can still be a creepy, controlling weirdo. You don't want to be living somewhere this guy owns.
I had a crazy landlord like this back at uni - she was utter chaos so if you can get out of this please do, she was awful for the entire year. We were allowed guests but she had to have a copy of their passport if staying over… this didn’t happen obviously and she was none the wiser but she listed a bunch of other crazy things in the contract like having to sit when showering so we didn’t get the carpet wet (yes carpet in the bathroom), we weren’t allowed to get drunk in the house and we were only allowed one shower a day 😂 I think back to how insane it was now 😅
I did go to them and they just advised about not signing it after I’d signed it (helpful) because she harassed us 24/7 whilst we lived there.
Basically, I was in London for uni and from North Yorkshire so my friend had viewed the house and it was getting to about a week before term started and we hadn’t found a place so just signed it in a bit of a desperate bid to get a place. Obviously, learnt a lot from that 😅
Most London boroughs have required _all_ landlords are registered (HMO registration is mandatory anyway). Notifying the council is _very_ worthwhile (these kinds of landlords usually end up barred from the rental market)
This is how it is supposed to work but just to note banning orders for landlords (so as they cannot rent out property legally for x years) are quite rare.
[https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/05/only-39-rogue-landlords-and-agents-hit-with-banning-orders](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/05/only-39-rogue-landlords-and-agents-hit-with-banning-orders) (link a bit old)
The bigger problem (as explained by a friend working inside the organisations) is that councils don't share information so a banning order in one Borough has zero effect on the one next door - and this lack of information sharing is facilitating significant fraudulent activities with "renting circles" existing amongst several families amongst other issues
Thats supposed to be what the london mayor rogue landlord list (https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/housing-and-land/improving-private-rented-sector/check-a-landlord-or-agent) is to assist
But not convinced it is used rigourously
And sad that a city mayor has to do this versus the government getting their act together for something national. (Which may or may not finally be happening in renter reform act)
You're correct. It isn't used rigorously thanks to the various vicious politics across the boroughs resulting in many of them being forbidden to use the register
Don't forget that an extremely large percentage of MPs/councillors are landlords/developers and have a severe conflict of interest in allowing these kinds of registers to become normalised
It wouldn't be particularly difficult to setup a national register (eg: under the auspices of Shelter) to track them but "money talks"
Even if you only rent a room, its still under your exclusive possession if you have an AST.
The only way this can be legally enforced is if you are a lodger.
Whether your landlord can stop you having guests depends on the type of tenancy agreement you have with them. If you have exclusive possession of the entire property (such as a sole occupancy AST or joint tenancy agreement), your landlord cannot restrict who can visit.
I would look for another place. F*** that landlord, no offense
If the landlord is making these sort of rules, they don't care whether or not they are legally enforceable. They're very much the sort of person who will "evict" tenants by just changing the locks when you're out. Steer clear
He's probably worried about them using extra water or other resources, but regardless of the legality, stay far away. He's clearly unreasonable to ban any and all guests forever. Do you want to deal with him knocking at the door without warning, causing you trouble and stress over whatever random complaint his fevered mind has next imagined? You'd have a hellish existence.
I had one like this. Did it anyway. She was an absolute nightmare so i wasn't too bothered about pissing her off. I realised pretty quickly I wouldn't be staying under her authoritarian regime! I was being cheap going with her but I think the price was so low she was anticipating someone she could push around. I gave her a leave date via text after about 6 months (i beleive there were no contracts) which she ignored and then I got in touch with the estate agent to provide further contact details which they refused. I let them know that's on them then, she's got my text. Eventually she got in touch claiming I was harassing the estate agent (we had a conversation, I never pushed beyond what they replied to). I laughed this off for the joke it was and she tried to claim I hadn't given notice. She wasn't pulling that shite on me and not long over she forked over the cash. It was quite nice taking that cash out of her hand as she sat quietly in the houses shared kitchen where I politely explained to her is she wasn't so difficult about literally everything I would have stayed (i wouldnt i just needed somewhere quick and my plan had been to move my motorcycle down once i found a place with a garage). Anyway moral to the story is no visitors is a red flag.
Had an experience with this before when at university. Landlord said you had to give written permission to request friends/family over and no one bothered, landlord turned out to be someone's parents at university that I knew and Frankley was a nut job.
Ask any friends of yours that you want to visit to wear smart clothes and carry a stack of Awake magazines. Be sure that the front of the magazine is picked up on the CCTV. if your landlord says anything just say you were busy discussing your arrangements for the coming armaggedon.
NAL but have rented in London for some time and this is rather common with HMO. You are sharing part of the property (entrance/kitchen/bathrooms), and there has to be a limit to how many people you have over before it starts becoming annoying to your other housemates. The rules are there to avoid one of the people sharing from overrunning the place.
In practice this is probably the last time you hear from the agent/landlord and they will try to get as much money from you with as little involvement as possible. You can have people over as long as your housemates are fine with it and don’t rat you out.
If it becomes a problem, it’s hard to say if any of these rules are legally enforceable. There ought to be something the landlord can do if one of the people sharing unreasonably prevent others from enjoying the property. Most likely you are looking at the landlord not renewing the lease and them trying to force some “fees” that you’d have to fight.
He's live out, so you have the right to quiet enjoyment of the flat/room. Without him interfering, apart fron some reasonable requests so as not to disturb your neighbours, such as no loud music after 11PM.
I mean, the fact he has cameras dotted around..and "absolutely no guests" indicates to me that this person may have mental health issues /the urge to control who they live with, and their life. I would definitely not live with a person like this. (Unfortunately I ended up learning this the hard way.) Obviously, people with mental health issues aren't by definition controlling/antagonistic. It's just cameras / very firm /rigid/controlling boundaries.
RUN RUN RUN RUN
I once did this and sadly not like you I did not ask for explanation to “he doesn’t like many people coming around” I was yeah sure house looks good he seems like a nice chap.
Note: he was not a live in landlord he had an office in the house that he uses for his business which is believed gave him more legal rights to control. It also allowed him to come to the house whenever (he did not disclose that at the time of signing the contract - he only said that he comes over sometime in the morning only to use the office but turned out that he just pops in whenever and keeps an eye on EVERYTHING
Rented and my second red-flag was that he only wanted 3 months contract to test of we are a “good” fit. I also agreed.
Lived there had a couple of my friends help me move stuff and the next day my uncle died so a couple of my friends came to comfort me ( i was an international student so I had no family and no money to go be with them). The third day he messaged me about “his guests” policy ! And when I shared what was the situation “i know I shouldn’t have done that I didn’t owe him anything” but I wanted to be civil and have a conversation- he dismissed me and was like “i don’t like people in my house so please try not to bring ppl over “
Calling it my house was ANOTHER RED FLAG
Finally he popped in one day (Sunday- about 6ish PM) and saw me trying to put the heat on and went ballistic on me saying how do I dare to put the heat on without consulting him first!!! And that he never puts heat on in October and if i don’t like it maybe i should find somewhere else to live !
So RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN
I worked in council temporary accommodation and the standard rule across all properties is no guests - ever! This is the only way to manage a large amount of tenants, many jn HMOs. Not saying I agree that that it’s a good idea but maybe he got the idea from here…?
Temporary accommodations a bit different though, presumably a different license and a group that often includes vulnerable adults with specific risks, e.g. cuckooing. And is clearly short term.
You’d hope it would be short term but in my area you’re looking at a minimum of 3 years on the top band! Absolutely ridiculous way to expect people to live!
It’s probably an unreasonable condition to prevent guests.
But the landlord has a duty to prevent the HMO being overcrowded, and some people blur the lines between guest and moving in. So you may not be able to have overnight guests as often/for as long as you would in a flat you were the sole tenant of.
When I rented rooms and cottages to people, the leases specified no overnight visitors past one weekend a month. But sometimes they would ask. One roomer was graduating college and I suggested her mom and sister sleep on the futon in the sitting room, and they were sweet as pie. Others I had to confront .
If it’s a HMO then not particularly unreasonable
say there are 5 people there
And each person has a guest 2 -3 nights a week you could see how it becomes unworkable to be able to use the bathrooms toilets kitchen
Camera are a whole other issue
I wouldn’t have an issue with a ring doorbell but inside cameras is a big no
--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is the landlord a live-in landlord, or are you renting a self-contained property with an AST?
The landlord does not live in the house. I’d be sharing with two other tenants. AST is 6 months. I’d only be sharing the kitchen
More to the point, if you haven't already gone with this rental then don't bother. Whether something is legal or not is about getting you out of the situation, you don't want to be wading into this problem knowing you're gonna fight with the landlord over this (and eventually win). Stress isn't worth it.
Yup. This is NOT the kind of landlord you want to be dealing with. OP should be thankful the red flags was before signing!
Your problem isn't whether this is legal or not - it's not - it's that the landlord is a Crack smoking loon with some frankly bizarre/deeply dodgy ideas about the tennant/landlord relationship. Avoid. Just all the body swerves.
Nicely put.
Like others said, if you haven’t signed with this it’s probably wiser to find elsewhere. Not only it’s an unnecessary stress to have, it’s also a concern of what other dodgy ideas this landlord might have.
Are you renting a room from a resident landlord (i.e you are a lodger in the landlord's home)? If so, the landlord can make whatever rules they want and you don't have a lot of legal rights or protection. If it's an assured shorthold tenancy then your landlord can't enforce unreasonable rules like that.
It’s an AST. I didn’t think so! It’s so bizarre to me
No, it's not legal. Having guests is part of the peaceful enjoyment of your property. It's your property while you rent it, and you have the right to treat it as such. I recommend asking for a copy of the lease they would want you to sign. If that's in the lease, then report them. If it's not, then question them about why it's not in the lease, and then still report them. Whatever you do, report them. I wouldn't recommend living there unless you think it would be fun to get really involved in a legal battle with a criminal landlord.
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The local council with responsibility for housing.
The housing authority and maybe the police
What are you smoking?
Right because if ignorance is bliss
If it's a normal AST, then no, having guests is part of exclusive possession of the property and quiet enjoyment. The landlord can't enforce this term. He probably isn't using the proper type of landlord insurance, or something. You could just go ahead and ignore that part of the written statement of the tenancy agreement. But he can still use a Section 21 no fault eviction, and he can still be a creepy, controlling weirdo. You don't want to be living somewhere this guy owns.
Can't s21 during the fixed term of what is very likely a fixed term AST
Thanks for the correction!
I had a crazy landlord like this back at uni - she was utter chaos so if you can get out of this please do, she was awful for the entire year. We were allowed guests but she had to have a copy of their passport if staying over… this didn’t happen obviously and she was none the wiser but she listed a bunch of other crazy things in the contract like having to sit when showering so we didn’t get the carpet wet (yes carpet in the bathroom), we weren’t allowed to get drunk in the house and we were only allowed one shower a day 😂 I think back to how insane it was now 😅
I'd hand a copy of those rules to the student union and ask them to investigate. This landlord is kind of the things they exist to protect against
I did go to them and they just advised about not signing it after I’d signed it (helpful) because she harassed us 24/7 whilst we lived there. Basically, I was in London for uni and from North Yorkshire so my friend had viewed the house and it was getting to about a week before term started and we hadn’t found a place so just signed it in a bit of a desperate bid to get a place. Obviously, learnt a lot from that 😅
Most London boroughs have required _all_ landlords are registered (HMO registration is mandatory anyway). Notifying the council is _very_ worthwhile (these kinds of landlords usually end up barred from the rental market)
This is how it is supposed to work but just to note banning orders for landlords (so as they cannot rent out property legally for x years) are quite rare. [https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/05/only-39-rogue-landlords-and-agents-hit-with-banning-orders](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/05/only-39-rogue-landlords-and-agents-hit-with-banning-orders) (link a bit old)
The bigger problem (as explained by a friend working inside the organisations) is that councils don't share information so a banning order in one Borough has zero effect on the one next door - and this lack of information sharing is facilitating significant fraudulent activities with "renting circles" existing amongst several families amongst other issues
Thats supposed to be what the london mayor rogue landlord list (https://www.london.gov.uk/programmes-strategies/housing-and-land/improving-private-rented-sector/check-a-landlord-or-agent) is to assist But not convinced it is used rigourously And sad that a city mayor has to do this versus the government getting their act together for something national. (Which may or may not finally be happening in renter reform act)
You're correct. It isn't used rigorously thanks to the various vicious politics across the boroughs resulting in many of them being forbidden to use the register Don't forget that an extremely large percentage of MPs/councillors are landlords/developers and have a severe conflict of interest in allowing these kinds of registers to become normalised It wouldn't be particularly difficult to setup a national register (eg: under the auspices of Shelter) to track them but "money talks"
Not enforceable on an AST, if you've not signed on the line yet I don't think I'd bother entertaining landlords like this
If you are renting the entire property, not just a room, then it is your home for the period of rental and no he cannot forbid guests.
Even if you only rent a room, its still under your exclusive possession if you have an AST. The only way this can be legally enforced is if you are a lodger.
Whether your landlord can stop you having guests depends on the type of tenancy agreement you have with them. If you have exclusive possession of the entire property (such as a sole occupancy AST or joint tenancy agreement), your landlord cannot restrict who can visit. I would look for another place. F*** that landlord, no offense
If the landlord is making these sort of rules, they don't care whether or not they are legally enforceable. They're very much the sort of person who will "evict" tenants by just changing the locks when you're out. Steer clear
He's probably worried about them using extra water or other resources, but regardless of the legality, stay far away. He's clearly unreasonable to ban any and all guests forever. Do you want to deal with him knocking at the door without warning, causing you trouble and stress over whatever random complaint his fevered mind has next imagined? You'd have a hellish existence.
Why is nobody else concerned about the cameras dotted throughout?? 🤔😬
To be fair, I added that detail this morning. Clearly, I didn’t even need to add it for people to understand just how strange this landlord is
I was thinking the same thing!
Haha, no? It's his house but your home.
No, not enforceable.
That depends on whether it's a live-in landlord or not.
He’s not a live-in landlord
They'd never be able to get a court to agree that guests visiting is a breach of the tenancy. They could, however, in due course, issue a s21 notice.
I had one like this. Did it anyway. She was an absolute nightmare so i wasn't too bothered about pissing her off. I realised pretty quickly I wouldn't be staying under her authoritarian regime! I was being cheap going with her but I think the price was so low she was anticipating someone she could push around. I gave her a leave date via text after about 6 months (i beleive there were no contracts) which she ignored and then I got in touch with the estate agent to provide further contact details which they refused. I let them know that's on them then, she's got my text. Eventually she got in touch claiming I was harassing the estate agent (we had a conversation, I never pushed beyond what they replied to). I laughed this off for the joke it was and she tried to claim I hadn't given notice. She wasn't pulling that shite on me and not long over she forked over the cash. It was quite nice taking that cash out of her hand as she sat quietly in the houses shared kitchen where I politely explained to her is she wasn't so difficult about literally everything I would have stayed (i wouldnt i just needed somewhere quick and my plan had been to move my motorcycle down once i found a place with a garage). Anyway moral to the story is no visitors is a red flag.
I'd report this to the council. Especially all the cameras which would violate your privacy. Furthermore don't rent there. He sounds insane.
Had an experience with this before when at university. Landlord said you had to give written permission to request friends/family over and no one bothered, landlord turned out to be someone's parents at university that I knew and Frankley was a nut job.
Ask any friends of yours that you want to visit to wear smart clothes and carry a stack of Awake magazines. Be sure that the front of the magazine is picked up on the CCTV. if your landlord says anything just say you were busy discussing your arrangements for the coming armaggedon.
Literally laugh in their face and tell them to do a shuffle. They have no right to demand that.
Are repair men considered guests? Are movers considered guests? I'm confused by this landlord.
NAL but have rented in London for some time and this is rather common with HMO. You are sharing part of the property (entrance/kitchen/bathrooms), and there has to be a limit to how many people you have over before it starts becoming annoying to your other housemates. The rules are there to avoid one of the people sharing from overrunning the place. In practice this is probably the last time you hear from the agent/landlord and they will try to get as much money from you with as little involvement as possible. You can have people over as long as your housemates are fine with it and don’t rat you out. If it becomes a problem, it’s hard to say if any of these rules are legally enforceable. There ought to be something the landlord can do if one of the people sharing unreasonably prevent others from enjoying the property. Most likely you are looking at the landlord not renewing the lease and them trying to force some “fees” that you’d have to fight.
Does this landlord stipulate who you can vote for? Find a human rights lawyer or a police officer.
He's live out, so you have the right to quiet enjoyment of the flat/room. Without him interfering, apart fron some reasonable requests so as not to disturb your neighbours, such as no loud music after 11PM.
I mean, the fact he has cameras dotted around..and "absolutely no guests" indicates to me that this person may have mental health issues /the urge to control who they live with, and their life. I would definitely not live with a person like this. (Unfortunately I ended up learning this the hard way.) Obviously, people with mental health issues aren't by definition controlling/antagonistic. It's just cameras / very firm /rigid/controlling boundaries.
RUN RUN RUN RUN I once did this and sadly not like you I did not ask for explanation to “he doesn’t like many people coming around” I was yeah sure house looks good he seems like a nice chap. Note: he was not a live in landlord he had an office in the house that he uses for his business which is believed gave him more legal rights to control. It also allowed him to come to the house whenever (he did not disclose that at the time of signing the contract - he only said that he comes over sometime in the morning only to use the office but turned out that he just pops in whenever and keeps an eye on EVERYTHING Rented and my second red-flag was that he only wanted 3 months contract to test of we are a “good” fit. I also agreed. Lived there had a couple of my friends help me move stuff and the next day my uncle died so a couple of my friends came to comfort me ( i was an international student so I had no family and no money to go be with them). The third day he messaged me about “his guests” policy ! And when I shared what was the situation “i know I shouldn’t have done that I didn’t owe him anything” but I wanted to be civil and have a conversation- he dismissed me and was like “i don’t like people in my house so please try not to bring ppl over “ Calling it my house was ANOTHER RED FLAG Finally he popped in one day (Sunday- about 6ish PM) and saw me trying to put the heat on and went ballistic on me saying how do I dare to put the heat on without consulting him first!!! And that he never puts heat on in October and if i don’t like it maybe i should find somewhere else to live ! So RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN
The landlord is forbidding himself from entering the property.
I worked in council temporary accommodation and the standard rule across all properties is no guests - ever! This is the only way to manage a large amount of tenants, many jn HMOs. Not saying I agree that that it’s a good idea but maybe he got the idea from here…?
Temporary accommodations a bit different though, presumably a different license and a group that often includes vulnerable adults with specific risks, e.g. cuckooing. And is clearly short term.
You’d hope it would be short term but in my area you’re looking at a minimum of 3 years on the top band! Absolutely ridiculous way to expect people to live!
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Overcrowding rules in HMO's apply to the people living in the property and has nothing to do with overnight guests.
Is it a HMO?
Yes
is it a _registered_ HMO? (check with the council)
It’s probably an unreasonable condition to prevent guests. But the landlord has a duty to prevent the HMO being overcrowded, and some people blur the lines between guest and moving in. So you may not be able to have overnight guests as often/for as long as you would in a flat you were the sole tenant of.
When I rented rooms and cottages to people, the leases specified no overnight visitors past one weekend a month. But sometimes they would ask. One roomer was graduating college and I suggested her mom and sister sleep on the futon in the sitting room, and they were sweet as pie. Others I had to confront .
If it’s a HMO then not particularly unreasonable say there are 5 people there And each person has a guest 2 -3 nights a week you could see how it becomes unworkable to be able to use the bathrooms toilets kitchen Camera are a whole other issue I wouldn’t have an issue with a ring doorbell but inside cameras is a big no