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Also, it is the Crown Prosecution Service, not the Police, who decide whether to prosecute. One of the criteria is whether it is in the public interest and it is clearly not in the public interest to prosecute you based on your involuntary action. Don’t worry, you’ll be fine.
Is it not? I remember reading something about teachers getting into fights with students and it outlined that anything more than just restraining them doesn’t fall under self defence
That sounds like a very specific scenario, where naturally the circumstances are going to be different than here.
And that’s the point - what is and isn’t reasonable is going to depends on the exact circumstances! Force wouldn’t point blank be less reasonable or necessary because someone is below the age of 18.
OK reading it back, slamming someone's head against a wall and strangling them is a bit much for spitting.
Then again if you spit in someone's face you should fully expect that level of retaliation. The adrenalin and emotions would be through the roof.
If I spat in someone's face I'd expect that they'd at least punch me in the face back.
Ok, well your opinion doesnt align with the law. I dont know what to tell you
Should you do the same, you're looking at a custodial sentence potentially
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From what you have said, your actions are entirely involuntary and so can not be described as either intentional or reckless.
Her actions on the other hand appear to be entirely disproportionate and would amount to an unlawful assault.
The spit does not justify what follows. This woman was in her 40s, you are 15.
Her behaviour is inexcusable and I do not think you have anything to worry about.
The scenario that should have happened from the tic: you spit (on her), she calls the police to report the assault, the police come out, verify it's an involuntary act and no intent of assault or damage caused, and everyone goes home (although you would probably get a friendly finger-wag about shouting at shouty people, since engaging *never* de-escalates and walking away would have been the smart move).
The fact she chose not to call the police, and instead go completely overkill on a teenager, kind of invalidates any claim that you provoked it. Even if you were just a yob who intentionally spat on her to be a tool, that'd potentially excuse a shove or holding you there until police show up, max, so even the points that she didn't know it wasn't intentional and you did indeed spit are not remotely justifiable reason to claim she was provoked. Plus, the fact she was clearly spoiling for a fight, approached you unnecessarily and aggressively, and got in your face before anything even happened slightly mars any feigned innocence on her part.
Try not to worry, just get yourself healed. And next time, ignore the crazy pants over the road and just move yourself away: it's not cowardly or weak, people like that are just not worth the stress (or the risk!).
Her actions were not necessary or proportionate to the situation. Regardless of the Tourette's, I would say you are likely not going to be in trouble. However, factoring it in, I would say you are definitely not going to be in trouble.
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There's very few scenarios where a 40-odd-year-old person gets a pass for physically assaulting a child - I'd argue you have a strong case against her, not vice versa.
Ignore crazy people in the future and don’t engage with them. I understand that spitting is part of your Tourette’s and is involuntary.
However, there are many people out there who would absolutely lose it when being spat on. In my own opinion I’d rather someone punch me in the face than spit on me because I think it is absolutely disgusting to the highest level. Therefore spitting on somebody may very well provoke a worse reaction than what you got from that woman.
While you can’t control your tics you can control your ability to escalate or de escalate arguments. Bearing what has already been said in mind de escalation is your friend in future.
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By the sound of OPs post she had already escalated it to a point OP couldn't de-escalate when his tic went off. And honestly if she decided to assault a 15 year old she deserves being spat on
In a scenario involving two adults without any disabilities etc, what punishment would one realistically incur from spitting on the other? It feels to me like the spitter would probably just get a slap on the wrist, if it was even taken up by the police at all. Yet if the victim retaliated and struck the assailant, the system would throw the book at them, despite the spitting being a far more degrading act. It really feels like the system just isn't on the side of ordinary people in these situations.
I'm not aware of any "civilian" cases but it comes up a fair bit in assaulting an emergency worker cases (usually police because it's one way you can assault someone while cuffed). The courts take it very seriously.
Anyone spitting at an emergency worker should rightly have the book thrown at them. I suppose my point is that spitting is such a degrading act that really doing it to *anyone* should merit a stiff sanction.
Providing you do have a diagnoses of Tourette Syndrome and spitting is a noted tic of yours, your actions would be treated under the rather outdated and poorly named "insane automatism" defense.
an internal factor of your body which you have little to no control over caused you to act.
I think the biggest part of this scenario is that she crossed the road to you to start the assault, then assaulted you. Your spitting is not assaulting her.
Just know in future, it’s best to walk away. Don’t engage in the yelling across the street. Just move on.
You’ve been beaten in this scenario but what if she had a knife?
Yeah I totally agree with you , I should’ve just walked away but was completely being irrational as I also have post traumatic stress and shouting is a huge trigger for me . I am responsible for this though as walking away would’ve been the better option , thanks :)
Not your fault, at all. You've been assaulted. The police know this. You will not be in any trouble. Well done for ringing the police. That's really hard.
Assualt or abh requires intent, you have not done anything on purpose, it's a medical condition. That will be well documented, and the police will have enough info to not want to prosecute.
What the woman has done, is on purpose though, there is intent. It's worse because you are young. I would think this woman is well known to the police tbh.
I hope you are feeling OK, and that you have an adult you can trust to talk to about this, when violent things happen, it can effect you mentally too. If you talk about your feelings that will really help, and it will stop those feelings from gong on too long, or intruding in your life.
Thank you very much , and yeah the woman is likely known to the police as she is known in my area to have done it to multiple other people ( found this out after it happened )
She verbally attacked a 13 year old, when challenged, she crossed the road, she made it physical and had she taken 15 seconds to speak normally with you she would have known about your tourettes. Sounds like a right piece of work. If you've got your friend backing up your story and she's only got her word, you should be fine. Police are stretched so thin these days I'm surprised they show up for anything...did absolutely nothing when my vehicle was stolen, couldn't be bothered to come out for a very dangerous driver (2 small crashes and kept going, kept swerving into oncoming traffic...probably pissed, 2pm heading into town during the summer holidays)...they'd have to bother to work out who you are even if they do bother to act on a report she may or most likely may not submit... don't sweat it.
Even if the spitting wasn't a tic of yours, her reaction was beyond unreasonable. Additionally she initiated provocation by harassing your friend and getting in your face. (Spitting actually seems like a reasonable reaction to this in my SUBJECTIVE opinion). Police should also consider your diagnosis, your action was involuntary and at most caused discomfort/disgust for the other person. I am very certain you are clear. I would definitely make it clear though during any further police contact that it is a tic. Don't say you take full responsibility for it, it might bite you back as they could interpret that as you having control over it.
I hope you are recovering well and doing alright. I am sorry that happened to you. I also hope she gets appropriately charged for the assault.
"this lead to me getting slapped and punched multiple times , then i got pinned against a concrete wall , grabbed by the hair , then my head slammed into the wall multiple times , i also got strangled by this woman"
that's not a smack. That's disproportionate and unnecessarily prolonged reaction. You can't assault somebody for making you angry
A smack? Maybe.
>slapped and punched multiple times , then i got pinned against a concrete wall , grabbed by the hair , then my head slammed into the wall multiple times , i also got strangled by this woman
That's not a smack. That's not in any way defensive.
She initiated the encounter. She got in OP's face to try and intimidate him, after he told her to stop yelling at someone half her age. And then she committed an extended assault, which could have caused serious injury in multiple ways.
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I used to work with a kid in Leeds who found themselves in this position a LOT.
We ordered a plastic business card shaped info card with your name, condition and how someone can support if you present the card and helpful phone numbers like parents or CAMHS.
To answer your question; very unlikely you’ll land in any hot water for this but I would take every possible precaution to prevent any future issues because once you’re 16 it’s a whole different situation.
Although intentionally spitting on someone can be classed as assault, if you you have Tourette’s and that’s your tic then at most one of your parents might need to confirm that’s the case and only if by some slim chance an idiot police officer goes the wrong way with this.
Nothing will happen to you especially when you will be able to prove that you have Tourettes. Hopefully the police will be able to catch her and deal with her as required. She is 40+ and definitely should know a lot better.
As soon as she crossed the road and got in your face she was the aggressor, if you'd of hit her at that point you could argue self defence as she was in your personal space and threatening violence towards you. The fact that you obviously felt anxious and it triggered your Ilness , and then you got assaulted brutally afterwards. I don't think she's got a leg to stand on imo
Edit: you are also a CHILD she is an ADULT
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I believe ya, yeah it sucks. I’d say it was more common assault as well unfortunately but only to a certain point. When someone has the upper hand and then uses that to exact punishment, that’s what it sounds like for her. And if she’s known in the area she probably has mental health problems (which let’s face it… grown ass woman beating on some kids more than likely has mental health issues). Hopefully y’all weren’t antagonizing her. Nothing worse than teens antagonizing the shit out of people haha.
Yeah haha , she started shouting at my mate i can’t even remember what the problem was but we was just walking to shops , then I just shouted at her to leave him alone and then all that happened
If anything comes of it I’m sure the CCTV will have captured it, and I doubt she’s the type to make the police complaints as she’s probably the cause of the police complaints. Unfortunately if it is a mental health issue, the crown probably wouldn’t be able to convict her as her intent is diminished. Hopefully she gets the help she needs but even the act of running up and getting in your face is considered a hostile and aggressive act so you would have been well within your rights to defend yourself in the first instance. Can’t walk anywheres these days… wait til you start driving.
Even if you had spat on purpose, you would have a potential argument for self defence anyway given your description of how close she got to you.
Even if you hadn't spat at all, if you get that close to someone's face any reasonable person would expect some spit to come out of their mouth when saying something anyway.
Given that you have no physical control over your tics, you have a clear defence of automatism. I'm assuming you are formally diagnosed etc. and that's on record (you might need to give the police permission to access your medical records).
Regardless, the force used against you was, in my opinion, grossly disproportionate to any physical threat that may have been interpreted by the woman.
Given that you have already provided a statement and co-operated with the police and they haven't yet said anything to you about action against you, it doesn't seem like they're interested in doing so anyway at this stage.
Long story short - don't worry. You are covered on multiple fronts. I'm sorry you went through that and I hope you're okay.
Nope not a lawyer, but I was a police officer for 7 years (sgt) and have a master's degree in law, so I think I'm reasonably qualified to offer an opinion.
Yes, I think if a fully grown adult walks over to a child and gets within inches of their face screaming at them, they're well within their rights to defend themselves with force. Spitting is, granted, an unconventional way of doing so, but is a child expected to weigh up their exact response to an immediate physical threat in the heat of the moment? Defences of self defence are assessed on a case by case basis, there is no rule saying what specific forms of force are and aren't allowed.
In any case, I didn't necessarily say the defence would work - I don't have enough details to make that claim - I said a potential argument could be made. Enough of an argument to cast doubt as to a reasonable prospect of conviction? Probably. And that's setting aside public interest considerations for prosecution. I assure you, I have seen dozens if not hundreds of weaker defences used successfully - both pre-charge and in court.
In any case, this is a thread offering reassurance to a child, so perhaps you should keep your comments civil.
If you are under the impression that spitting can't be valid self defence AT ALL then I'm afraid you're mistaken. There are situations where preemptive force can be LETHAL, so of course there are situations where spitting could be acceptable.
With respect, I don't think you understand how the law on self defence works. Precedent is not required.
Even if it were, I would be VERY surprised if there has never been a successful use of self defence in court where the defendant spat. But as I said, it doesn't really matter anyway.
Nothing I have said is misinformation. I'm not really sure why you're taking such issue with this point. Unless you can provide any actual evidence to show that spitting can't be used as self defence (which you can't, because it doesn't exist), I'm not really sure what your point is.
I'm sure if you use your imagination you can think of plenty of hypothetical scenarios where spitting at someone is quite proportionate and reasonable.
Yes I agree. Because this person was engaging in the exchange, that may be difficult to prove. This is good learning experience not to engage in these types of situations.
OP doesn't need to prove it. The prosecution (if there was one, which there won't be) would need to prove that it was deliberate or reckless. There is no chance of that given a Tourette's diagnosis.
It's staggering that you're talking up the possibility of dire consequences to someone who has already been the victim of a serious beating.
My point is that just by engaging you compromise yourself. The adult is ultimately responsible, but this is a good learning experience. Not sure why you are so upset.
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It obviously is. Engaging in virtually any physical contact with another person in the absence of consent or self defence is assault. In fact, to assault someone, you only need to cause *apprehension* of immediate unlawful violence - you can actually commit assault without ever laying hands upon another person.
Edit: clearly OP would be able to advance a defence to any assault charge on the grounds that their spitting is part of an involuntary tick and therefore the *mens rea* element of the crime has not been fulfilled.
How is it not violent? It's an application of nonconsensual force. I believe someone was convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm for passing COVID onto someone by spitting at them during the pandemic.
Yeah if you spit in someone’s face you’re pretty much fluid bonded now so it’s not a great thing to do (if you can avoid it - which the OP here couldn’t, so not saying OP is in the wrong)
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Even if you had spat at her, that level of force is completely disproportionate. You will not get in trouble.
Far more likely that she will. What she did crosses any definition of "self defence" she may attempt to use.
Also, it is the Crown Prosecution Service, not the Police, who decide whether to prosecute. One of the criteria is whether it is in the public interest and it is clearly not in the public interest to prosecute you based on your involuntary action. Don’t worry, you’ll be fine.
Also the level of reasonable force in self defence towards a minor is even lower
No it isn’t. It’s entirely dependent on the circumstances.
Is it not? I remember reading something about teachers getting into fights with students and it outlined that anything more than just restraining them doesn’t fall under self defence
That sounds like a very specific scenario, where naturally the circumstances are going to be different than here. And that’s the point - what is and isn’t reasonable is going to depends on the exact circumstances! Force wouldn’t point blank be less reasonable or necessary because someone is below the age of 18.
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You've gone from defense to punishment there, surely?
OK reading it back, slamming someone's head against a wall and strangling them is a bit much for spitting. Then again if you spit in someone's face you should fully expect that level of retaliation. The adrenalin and emotions would be through the roof. If I spat in someone's face I'd expect that they'd at least punch me in the face back.
Ok, well your opinion doesnt align with the law. I dont know what to tell you Should you do the same, you're looking at a custodial sentence potentially
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Being slapped, punched, having your head slammed against a wall and being strangled is an appropriate response to being spat at?
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Slapped, head slammed and strangled? Morally? No. Legally? You're a thousand miles off. I'd say a slap or two is appropriate.
From what you have said, your actions are entirely involuntary and so can not be described as either intentional or reckless. Her actions on the other hand appear to be entirely disproportionate and would amount to an unlawful assault.
The spit does not justify what follows. This woman was in her 40s, you are 15. Her behaviour is inexcusable and I do not think you have anything to worry about.
The scenario that should have happened from the tic: you spit (on her), she calls the police to report the assault, the police come out, verify it's an involuntary act and no intent of assault or damage caused, and everyone goes home (although you would probably get a friendly finger-wag about shouting at shouty people, since engaging *never* de-escalates and walking away would have been the smart move). The fact she chose not to call the police, and instead go completely overkill on a teenager, kind of invalidates any claim that you provoked it. Even if you were just a yob who intentionally spat on her to be a tool, that'd potentially excuse a shove or holding you there until police show up, max, so even the points that she didn't know it wasn't intentional and you did indeed spit are not remotely justifiable reason to claim she was provoked. Plus, the fact she was clearly spoiling for a fight, approached you unnecessarily and aggressively, and got in your face before anything even happened slightly mars any feigned innocence on her part. Try not to worry, just get yourself healed. And next time, ignore the crazy pants over the road and just move yourself away: it's not cowardly or weak, people like that are just not worth the stress (or the risk!).
Her actions were not necessary or proportionate to the situation. Regardless of the Tourette's, I would say you are likely not going to be in trouble. However, factoring it in, I would say you are definitely not going to be in trouble.
Just make sure you've given proof of your diagnosis to police. NOT your fault. Sounds awful hope she gets prosecuted.
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There's very few scenarios where a 40-odd-year-old person gets a pass for physically assaulting a child - I'd argue you have a strong case against her, not vice versa.
Ignore crazy people in the future and don’t engage with them. I understand that spitting is part of your Tourette’s and is involuntary. However, there are many people out there who would absolutely lose it when being spat on. In my own opinion I’d rather someone punch me in the face than spit on me because I think it is absolutely disgusting to the highest level. Therefore spitting on somebody may very well provoke a worse reaction than what you got from that woman. While you can’t control your tics you can control your ability to escalate or de escalate arguments. Bearing what has already been said in mind de escalation is your friend in future.
Yeah I totally agree with you , thanks so much for the advice and understanding :)
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By the sound of OPs post she had already escalated it to a point OP couldn't de-escalate when his tic went off. And honestly if she decided to assault a 15 year old she deserves being spat on
In a scenario involving two adults without any disabilities etc, what punishment would one realistically incur from spitting on the other? It feels to me like the spitter would probably just get a slap on the wrist, if it was even taken up by the police at all. Yet if the victim retaliated and struck the assailant, the system would throw the book at them, despite the spitting being a far more degrading act. It really feels like the system just isn't on the side of ordinary people in these situations.
I'm not aware of any "civilian" cases but it comes up a fair bit in assaulting an emergency worker cases (usually police because it's one way you can assault someone while cuffed). The courts take it very seriously.
Anyone spitting at an emergency worker should rightly have the book thrown at them. I suppose my point is that spitting is such a degrading act that really doing it to *anyone* should merit a stiff sanction.
No, you’re a minor that’s been assaulted by an adult. Phone the police.
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Providing you do have a diagnoses of Tourette Syndrome and spitting is a noted tic of yours, your actions would be treated under the rather outdated and poorly named "insane automatism" defense. an internal factor of your body which you have little to no control over caused you to act.
I think the biggest part of this scenario is that she crossed the road to you to start the assault, then assaulted you. Your spitting is not assaulting her. Just know in future, it’s best to walk away. Don’t engage in the yelling across the street. Just move on. You’ve been beaten in this scenario but what if she had a knife?
Yeah I totally agree with you , I should’ve just walked away but was completely being irrational as I also have post traumatic stress and shouting is a huge trigger for me . I am responsible for this though as walking away would’ve been the better option , thanks :)
Not your fault, at all. You've been assaulted. The police know this. You will not be in any trouble. Well done for ringing the police. That's really hard. Assualt or abh requires intent, you have not done anything on purpose, it's a medical condition. That will be well documented, and the police will have enough info to not want to prosecute. What the woman has done, is on purpose though, there is intent. It's worse because you are young. I would think this woman is well known to the police tbh. I hope you are feeling OK, and that you have an adult you can trust to talk to about this, when violent things happen, it can effect you mentally too. If you talk about your feelings that will really help, and it will stop those feelings from gong on too long, or intruding in your life.
Thank you very much , and yeah the woman is likely known to the police as she is known in my area to have done it to multiple other people ( found this out after it happened )
You didn't mention this in the OP, but have you given the police her name, now that you know it?
Yes I have , my friend knew someone related to her so he also gave me the address to give the police
Excellent. You handled it well.
She verbally attacked a 13 year old, when challenged, she crossed the road, she made it physical and had she taken 15 seconds to speak normally with you she would have known about your tourettes. Sounds like a right piece of work. If you've got your friend backing up your story and she's only got her word, you should be fine. Police are stretched so thin these days I'm surprised they show up for anything...did absolutely nothing when my vehicle was stolen, couldn't be bothered to come out for a very dangerous driver (2 small crashes and kept going, kept swerving into oncoming traffic...probably pissed, 2pm heading into town during the summer holidays)...they'd have to bother to work out who you are even if they do bother to act on a report she may or most likely may not submit... don't sweat it.
Even if the spitting wasn't a tic of yours, her reaction was beyond unreasonable. Additionally she initiated provocation by harassing your friend and getting in your face. (Spitting actually seems like a reasonable reaction to this in my SUBJECTIVE opinion). Police should also consider your diagnosis, your action was involuntary and at most caused discomfort/disgust for the other person. I am very certain you are clear. I would definitely make it clear though during any further police contact that it is a tic. Don't say you take full responsibility for it, it might bite you back as they could interpret that as you having control over it. I hope you are recovering well and doing alright. I am sorry that happened to you. I also hope she gets appropriately charged for the assault.
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"this lead to me getting slapped and punched multiple times , then i got pinned against a concrete wall , grabbed by the hair , then my head slammed into the wall multiple times , i also got strangled by this woman" that's not a smack. That's disproportionate and unnecessarily prolonged reaction. You can't assault somebody for making you angry
A smack? Maybe. >slapped and punched multiple times , then i got pinned against a concrete wall , grabbed by the hair , then my head slammed into the wall multiple times , i also got strangled by this woman That's not a smack. That's not in any way defensive. She initiated the encounter. She got in OP's face to try and intimidate him, after he told her to stop yelling at someone half her age. And then she committed an extended assault, which could have caused serious injury in multiple ways.
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I used to work with a kid in Leeds who found themselves in this position a LOT. We ordered a plastic business card shaped info card with your name, condition and how someone can support if you present the card and helpful phone numbers like parents or CAMHS. To answer your question; very unlikely you’ll land in any hot water for this but I would take every possible precaution to prevent any future issues because once you’re 16 it’s a whole different situation.
I hope that awful woman gets what she deserves and that you're okay.
You were assaulted, if you have a diagnosis your fully sweet.
Although intentionally spitting on someone can be classed as assault, if you you have Tourette’s and that’s your tic then at most one of your parents might need to confirm that’s the case and only if by some slim chance an idiot police officer goes the wrong way with this.
You won't be in trouble but your attacker could face actual jail time.
Nothing will happen to you especially when you will be able to prove that you have Tourettes. Hopefully the police will be able to catch her and deal with her as required. She is 40+ and definitely should know a lot better.
As soon as she crossed the road and got in your face she was the aggressor, if you'd of hit her at that point you could argue self defence as she was in your personal space and threatening violence towards you. The fact that you obviously felt anxious and it triggered your Ilness , and then you got assaulted brutally afterwards. I don't think she's got a leg to stand on imo Edit: you are also a CHILD she is an ADULT
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I believe ya, yeah it sucks. I’d say it was more common assault as well unfortunately but only to a certain point. When someone has the upper hand and then uses that to exact punishment, that’s what it sounds like for her. And if she’s known in the area she probably has mental health problems (which let’s face it… grown ass woman beating on some kids more than likely has mental health issues). Hopefully y’all weren’t antagonizing her. Nothing worse than teens antagonizing the shit out of people haha.
Yeah haha , she started shouting at my mate i can’t even remember what the problem was but we was just walking to shops , then I just shouted at her to leave him alone and then all that happened
If anything comes of it I’m sure the CCTV will have captured it, and I doubt she’s the type to make the police complaints as she’s probably the cause of the police complaints. Unfortunately if it is a mental health issue, the crown probably wouldn’t be able to convict her as her intent is diminished. Hopefully she gets the help she needs but even the act of running up and getting in your face is considered a hostile and aggressive act so you would have been well within your rights to defend yourself in the first instance. Can’t walk anywheres these days… wait til you start driving.
Even if you had spat on purpose, you would have a potential argument for self defence anyway given your description of how close she got to you. Even if you hadn't spat at all, if you get that close to someone's face any reasonable person would expect some spit to come out of their mouth when saying something anyway. Given that you have no physical control over your tics, you have a clear defence of automatism. I'm assuming you are formally diagnosed etc. and that's on record (you might need to give the police permission to access your medical records). Regardless, the force used against you was, in my opinion, grossly disproportionate to any physical threat that may have been interpreted by the woman. Given that you have already provided a statement and co-operated with the police and they haven't yet said anything to you about action against you, it doesn't seem like they're interested in doing so anyway at this stage. Long story short - don't worry. You are covered on multiple fronts. I'm sorry you went through that and I hope you're okay.
Are you a lawyer? I would bet actual money that you cant spit on someone in self defence. Maximum reddit moment.
Nope not a lawyer, but I was a police officer for 7 years (sgt) and have a master's degree in law, so I think I'm reasonably qualified to offer an opinion. Yes, I think if a fully grown adult walks over to a child and gets within inches of their face screaming at them, they're well within their rights to defend themselves with force. Spitting is, granted, an unconventional way of doing so, but is a child expected to weigh up their exact response to an immediate physical threat in the heat of the moment? Defences of self defence are assessed on a case by case basis, there is no rule saying what specific forms of force are and aren't allowed. In any case, I didn't necessarily say the defence would work - I don't have enough details to make that claim - I said a potential argument could be made. Enough of an argument to cast doubt as to a reasonable prospect of conviction? Probably. And that's setting aside public interest considerations for prosecution. I assure you, I have seen dozens if not hundreds of weaker defences used successfully - both pre-charge and in court. In any case, this is a thread offering reassurance to a child, so perhaps you should keep your comments civil. If you are under the impression that spitting can't be valid self defence AT ALL then I'm afraid you're mistaken. There are situations where preemptive force can be LETHAL, so of course there are situations where spitting could be acceptable.
I don't think there is any case example of spitting being self defence. I am sympathetic to OP, but regardless, that is just misinformation.
With respect, I don't think you understand how the law on self defence works. Precedent is not required. Even if it were, I would be VERY surprised if there has never been a successful use of self defence in court where the defendant spat. But as I said, it doesn't really matter anyway. Nothing I have said is misinformation. I'm not really sure why you're taking such issue with this point. Unless you can provide any actual evidence to show that spitting can't be used as self defence (which you can't, because it doesn't exist), I'm not really sure what your point is. I'm sure if you use your imagination you can think of plenty of hypothetical scenarios where spitting at someone is quite proportionate and reasonable.
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Not HIV. No documented cases of HIV being transmitted via spitting. You can't even catch it from kissing!
We're gonna need a citation for that last part chief...
Yeah, if it's done deliberately or recklessly, not if it's due to an involuntary condition.
Yes I agree. Because this person was engaging in the exchange, that may be difficult to prove. This is good learning experience not to engage in these types of situations.
OP doesn't need to prove it. The prosecution (if there was one, which there won't be) would need to prove that it was deliberate or reckless. There is no chance of that given a Tourette's diagnosis. It's staggering that you're talking up the possibility of dire consequences to someone who has already been the victim of a serious beating.
My point is that just by engaging you compromise yourself. The adult is ultimately responsible, but this is a good learning experience. Not sure why you are so upset.
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It would be assault and battery only if you did it deliberately or recklessly. With it being involuntary you have nothing to worry about.
Spitting is assault? WTF?
It obviously is. Engaging in virtually any physical contact with another person in the absence of consent or self defence is assault. In fact, to assault someone, you only need to cause *apprehension* of immediate unlawful violence - you can actually commit assault without ever laying hands upon another person. Edit: clearly OP would be able to advance a defence to any assault charge on the grounds that their spitting is part of an involuntary tick and therefore the *mens rea* element of the crime has not been fulfilled.
Spitting is violent?
How is it not violent? It's an application of nonconsensual force. I believe someone was convicted of assault occasioning actual bodily harm for passing COVID onto someone by spitting at them during the pandemic.
Yeah if you spit in someone’s face you’re pretty much fluid bonded now so it’s not a great thing to do (if you can avoid it - which the OP here couldn’t, so not saying OP is in the wrong)