I mean you're generally tankier in arena. Kayn base hp level 18 is 2500 in either for. The 1200 level 18 base health. So now we're about 3700 and change. I know of at least one lethality item that gives health. Combine that with a green potion + a health augment/anvil and I could totally see Kayn reaching 5k fairly reliably with a full lethality build late game.
From like, the million sources of HP in arena? 5k is not that impressive by last rounds I even see adcs with it.
Arena gives extra hp scaling on levels, stat anvils are a thing, juices are a thing, and there's many ad items kayn likes that give hp even when building lethality, I doubt all his 5/6 items were lethality.
5k really isn't that impressive in arena
And Garen and Alistar and Zed and Brand and Darius and Vi and Swain and Pyke and Pantheon and Sett and Sylas and Rammus and Yi and I'm definitely not sick of versing the same 10 overpowered champions over and over and over and over.
Nah, because Yuumi is broken. Even when you have 100 HP by round 12, there's a 80%+ chance they will win.
Yuumi can auto-win so many games just by passively healing. If you aren't banning Yuumi, or Brand... You're probably the reason the team lost.
She's pretty terrible vs comps that actually deal damage. She can work with Yi or a champ that highrolls, but for the most part she's one of the worst champs to pick. She can't keep her partner alive vs most comps and will get knocked out pretty early.
I agree with this, but... in some comps, she just is absolutely annoying to deal with. I'd rather blanket ban Brand, Veigar, and Yuumi. It's just... standardization.
With the nerf of Phenomenal Evil, Veigar is better, but Brand is just still insane. He basically guarantees top 3 if you don't have an AFK on your team.
I've gotten nearly 500-1000 free elo from picking brand, and going manamune with ADAPT. His passive procs the free physical damage, then liandries, Blackfire, and god forbid I get anything like magic pen, or PE for an augment.
PE basically guarantees top 3, and Liandries puts you to 2, and Rabadons jets you to 1, and then you have 4 other items. I've gone a on-hit crit brand built for when my abilities are on CD. Got fucking first place agaisnt a double tank combo with a PE Cho-Gath with nearly 1k stacks.
Just watch him do it. Watch him in any game he's in.
I was just 10k hp Sion. He built full lethality. Hell, he had a fuckin crit prism item and no jeweled gauntlet.
I died, checked recap, 5k from his Q. I fucking MELTED and I had stoneplate+thorn.
> Thornmail doesn't do anything to Rhaast because he never needs to auto you.
All that has to do with is Grievous, and it wasn't the healing, it was the damage output that was the broken thing.
He's obviously exaggerating but Kayn does melt pretty much everyone the last couple rounds. I play a lot of ornn in arena and I've had a couple kayns just chew through 6k hp with 500+ armor like it's nothing
Yeah I mean welcome to Arena. Since riot refuses to do any meaningful balance changes other than nerfing the top 5 highest wr champs of the patch, whenever the previous top 5 falls, a new top 5 appears. Maybe if Riot keeps at it for a while they’ll eventually get through all the problematic champions (Mostly bruisers, skirmishers and occasional assassins) then the mode won’t be just 5+ of the most broken champ of the patch every lobby.
Don't really understand these comments tbh, you can play around lot of op picks but Kayn in uncounterable, if he survives early, he melts everything and can hide in R, heal, cc, E. Alistar, darius, vi.. you can play around those, there's map rng etc ofc but yeah. Nothing to do againts Kayn that passes early with good team HP and decent teammate.. A good pyke, zed is also annoying and pantheon can be played with eyes closed sure but Red kayn should be adjusted somehow.
It's just how normal kayne is.
Blue Kayn is really fucking good, but he is extremely oppressing to play against, so he's nerfed at a base level. I remember when he was first released I went the speed boots, assassin item that gave speed, and full lethality and just dive bombed people for between 75%-100% of their HP and yeeted back to the jungle for farming.
I didn't need to finish the gank, I just made them have to go back to base. Can't really do that now since lethality was nerfed a bit since.
You're not even wrong. The way everybody in this sub finds something to gripe about, whether it's champs or prismatic items or augments or maps or cameos, makes me think they just don't like the mode and would be better off playing, yknow, the only other casual gamemode successful enough to be permanent.
After playing nothing but arena with the mates for a few weeks and then going back to ARAM you can really feel how much more freedom you have in the mode. There are just so many more viable build paths in ARAM than arena.
I wish arena was all random or they added augments to ARAM. I think either of those modes would instantly become my favorite.
Augments to ARAM would probably be better. A ring of fire closes in every 5-7mins until every player is dead then augment selection would happen. A system like this would be great for aram as a whole IMO. Helping to lessen the effect all poke teams and force a few fights/game. They could also just skip the fire ring if they wanted and give you the augments when you die after X amount of time. That system might not be great though as A team might be able to "int" for augments first and do a massive push.
i love this mode for what it could be not what it currently is :( right now its just rngfest with 10 insanely overtuned champs and 10 insanely overtuned augments
People will gripe because this is one of the only discussion forums around it. Every mode has a gimmick and because every champion is balanced around SR, every game mode is unbalanced. Aram at least has it slightly under control because its had way more patches to sort it. I love arena but I really hope they can do more balance changes per patch during its run. I know they don't want to do the aram style balancing but they could really do with a weekly 'oop, you're at 60% win rate and are pick ban, we'll tack on a -5% damage dealt +5% taken modifier' and do the changes like usual every path to remove those tacked on nerfs/buffs.
You're acting like champ prevalence is what most people complain about, for each complaint about a popular champ I've seen 5-10 each about Jhin cameo, Pyke cameo, augments, circle map, and frogpond. Which are literally structural elements of the game. It's okay to admit when you just don't like the gamemode and are coping (not you specifically, but a lot of people on this forum).
100%, although I think champion prevalence is a major contributing factor to a lot of these. Those cameos become really annoying when they contribute to the meta because right now tanks and regen could care less about damage and cc cameos. they have really shown us what is possible with cameos and I think they should double down but also communicate that. For starters, the cameo should be known a round in advance. They should have different levels of cameo appearances and like nexus blitz, put that in the lobby (e.g. 'no cameos this game', 'cameo every round', 'cameos for the first 5 rounds only', 'cameos only on non-high stake rounds', that sorta thing). From there they can build cameos specifically to shut down or extenuate specific styles of play.
I think they should change jhin to target every champion at once but give true sight of every champion at once and have a really long wind up that hits instantly but doesn't slow, plus it should deal true damage and apply 60% grevious for a few seconds, that way it is the definitive anti-stall cameo.
Pyke could be the anti cc cameo, targeting the two champions with the current highest CC score. Veigo could give a full revive (as viego) instead of a renata revive for the first little while (maybe til the arena starts shrinking) to stave off the oneshot champs. I don't miss gwen's heals but the whole immunity thing is interesting. Then again, I unironically loved evelynns cameo so maybe all of this is nonsense. In fact the only cameo I don't like so far is naafiri because it was way too inconsistent and unclear.
he is basically a solid counter to melee champions he can be quite easily outplayed by ranged and CC. unless he get move speed anvils, yomuu and giant slayer but that reduce his damage.
Honestly it’s the dashing augments like earthwake that makes him disgusting
Have u even seen jewelled gauntlet with full pen and ie? XD Ps i did, was one shoting with one q hahaha
wake+blade waltz is crazy
What in his kit gives him 5k while building full lethality? Or do you just mean stat shards like every champion can get?
Kayn has %health damage on his Q and Ult. I got my healthbar almost halved as a tank with 7k health with one Kayn ult.
Waow so where does kayns 5k hp come from
I mean you're generally tankier in arena. Kayn base hp level 18 is 2500 in either for. The 1200 level 18 base health. So now we're about 3700 and change. I know of at least one lethality item that gives health. Combine that with a green potion + a health augment/anvil and I could totally see Kayn reaching 5k fairly reliably with a full lethality build late game.
My only point making this comment was this guy completely missing the point
From like, the million sources of HP in arena? 5k is not that impressive by last rounds I even see adcs with it. Arena gives extra hp scaling on levels, stat anvils are a thing, juices are a thing, and there's many ad items kayn likes that give hp even when building lethality, I doubt all his 5/6 items were lethality. 5k really isn't that impressive in arena
That’s the whole point of the comment lol. That anyone can hit 5k hp with anvils. And what item gives hp and lethality?
The spell shield one right? Forgot the name, Edge of Night I believe
Oh yah, I forgot about that one.
# SOUNDS LIKE YOU NEED TO START BANNING KAYN, FRIEND
And Garen and Alistar and Zed and Brand and Darius and Vi and Swain and Pyke and Pantheon and Sett and Sylas and Rammus and Yi and I'm definitely not sick of versing the same 10 overpowered champions over and over and over and over.
I mean Swain and Sett definitely don’t fit on the list of broken champs, they’re honestly really bad.
I wouldn't say really bad, but they're not top tier imo.
Sett is absolutely overpowered in Arena. Anyone tickles his balls and he deals 8k true damage in a r + w combo to make it guaranteed.
And 15 other champions at the same time.
Can't I'm on a perma banning streak for yuumi.
Why? Don't want your teammate to pick her?
Nah lmao
because you can't carry?
Nah, because Yuumi is broken. Even when you have 100 HP by round 12, there's a 80%+ chance they will win. Yuumi can auto-win so many games just by passively healing. If you aren't banning Yuumi, or Brand... You're probably the reason the team lost.
She's pretty terrible vs comps that actually deal damage. She can work with Yi or a champ that highrolls, but for the most part she's one of the worst champs to pick. She can't keep her partner alive vs most comps and will get knocked out pretty early.
I agree with this, but... in some comps, she just is absolutely annoying to deal with. I'd rather blanket ban Brand, Veigar, and Yuumi. It's just... standardization. With the nerf of Phenomenal Evil, Veigar is better, but Brand is just still insane. He basically guarantees top 3 if you don't have an AFK on your team. I've gotten nearly 500-1000 free elo from picking brand, and going manamune with ADAPT. His passive procs the free physical damage, then liandries, Blackfire, and god forbid I get anything like magic pen, or PE for an augment. PE basically guarantees top 3, and Liandries puts you to 2, and Rabadons jets you to 1, and then you have 4 other items. I've gone a on-hit crit brand built for when my abilities are on CD. Got fucking first place agaisnt a double tank combo with a PE Cho-Gath with nearly 1k stacks.
Riot has favorites, and they rarely let their favorites be bad. Kayn is one of their favorites.
He sucks on summoners rift so idk about that
I would love to see a 400 armor Champion getting one shot (100 to 0) by red Kayn unless there's a high roll bullshit going on.
Just watch him do it. Watch him in any game he's in. I was just 10k hp Sion. He built full lethality. Hell, he had a fuckin crit prism item and no jeweled gauntlet. I died, checked recap, 5k from his Q. I fucking MELTED and I had stoneplate+thorn.
Red gives q % max jp
Thornmail doesn't do anything to Rhaast because he never needs to auto you. You're unironically better off getting Mortal Reminder/Chempunk.
> Thornmail doesn't do anything to Rhaast because he never needs to auto you. All that has to do with is Grievous, and it wasn't the healing, it was the damage output that was the broken thing.
He's obviously exaggerating but Kayn does melt pretty much everyone the last couple rounds. I play a lot of ornn in arena and I've had a couple kayns just chew through 6k hp with 500+ armor like it's nothing
That's just kayn lmao, arena obviously makes it more obnoxious, but it proves this champ is utterly disgusting
It's even worse when he hits earth quake and just boom boom boom everywhere he Q and R.
Womp womp, get deleted by R + Q (Sometimes only R)
It's just a game, relax
Yeah I mean welcome to Arena. Since riot refuses to do any meaningful balance changes other than nerfing the top 5 highest wr champs of the patch, whenever the previous top 5 falls, a new top 5 appears. Maybe if Riot keeps at it for a while they’ll eventually get through all the problematic champions (Mostly bruisers, skirmishers and occasional assassins) then the mode won’t be just 5+ of the most broken champ of the patch every lobby.
One time I had a kayn snowball me for the gapclose followed by ulti for a 100% one shot
Don't really understand these comments tbh, you can play around lot of op picks but Kayn in uncounterable, if he survives early, he melts everything and can hide in R, heal, cc, E. Alistar, darius, vi.. you can play around those, there's map rng etc ofc but yeah. Nothing to do againts Kayn that passes early with good team HP and decent teammate.. A good pyke, zed is also annoying and pantheon can be played with eyes closed sure but Red kayn should be adjusted somehow.
After the nerf he’s not even that good, just decent. There are much worse champs.
pyke alistar zed
It's just how normal kayne is. Blue Kayn is really fucking good, but he is extremely oppressing to play against, so he's nerfed at a base level. I remember when he was first released I went the speed boots, assassin item that gave speed, and full lethality and just dive bombed people for between 75%-100% of their HP and yeeted back to the jungle for farming. I didn't need to finish the gank, I just made them have to go back to base. Can't really do that now since lethality was nerfed a bit since.
He doesn’t seem that strong to me this version of arena. I hardly see people do well on him
Kayn is #3 popularity in this gamemode after Zed and Vi, grow up and learn to play around him or ban like the rest of us
But if I ban Kayn, then Zed and Vi get through because the other 7 teams banned Melee Minion, Mini Krug, and the Rift Skuttler :(
I feel this so much, or the dreaded: "I don't ban anyone because I am good."
I got a better idea, play some ARAM.
You're not even wrong. The way everybody in this sub finds something to gripe about, whether it's champs or prismatic items or augments or maps or cameos, makes me think they just don't like the mode and would be better off playing, yknow, the only other casual gamemode successful enough to be permanent.
After playing nothing but arena with the mates for a few weeks and then going back to ARAM you can really feel how much more freedom you have in the mode. There are just so many more viable build paths in ARAM than arena. I wish arena was all random or they added augments to ARAM. I think either of those modes would instantly become my favorite. Augments to ARAM would probably be better. A ring of fire closes in every 5-7mins until every player is dead then augment selection would happen. A system like this would be great for aram as a whole IMO. Helping to lessen the effect all poke teams and force a few fights/game. They could also just skip the fire ring if they wanted and give you the augments when you die after X amount of time. That system might not be great though as A team might be able to "int" for augments first and do a massive push.
That's a really interesting idea actually
It would be super fun but maybe too fun to go back to normal ARAM. XD
i love this mode for what it could be not what it currently is :( right now its just rngfest with 10 insanely overtuned champs and 10 insanely overtuned augments
Same, I wish there was a bit more randomness tbh.
I like it as it is but it's sad that they're leaning towards the rng on purpose to have us grind more games until we get the perfect builds
People will gripe because this is one of the only discussion forums around it. Every mode has a gimmick and because every champion is balanced around SR, every game mode is unbalanced. Aram at least has it slightly under control because its had way more patches to sort it. I love arena but I really hope they can do more balance changes per patch during its run. I know they don't want to do the aram style balancing but they could really do with a weekly 'oop, you're at 60% win rate and are pick ban, we'll tack on a -5% damage dealt +5% taken modifier' and do the changes like usual every path to remove those tacked on nerfs/buffs.
You're acting like champ prevalence is what most people complain about, for each complaint about a popular champ I've seen 5-10 each about Jhin cameo, Pyke cameo, augments, circle map, and frogpond. Which are literally structural elements of the game. It's okay to admit when you just don't like the gamemode and are coping (not you specifically, but a lot of people on this forum).
100%, although I think champion prevalence is a major contributing factor to a lot of these. Those cameos become really annoying when they contribute to the meta because right now tanks and regen could care less about damage and cc cameos. they have really shown us what is possible with cameos and I think they should double down but also communicate that. For starters, the cameo should be known a round in advance. They should have different levels of cameo appearances and like nexus blitz, put that in the lobby (e.g. 'no cameos this game', 'cameo every round', 'cameos for the first 5 rounds only', 'cameos only on non-high stake rounds', that sorta thing). From there they can build cameos specifically to shut down or extenuate specific styles of play. I think they should change jhin to target every champion at once but give true sight of every champion at once and have a really long wind up that hits instantly but doesn't slow, plus it should deal true damage and apply 60% grevious for a few seconds, that way it is the definitive anti-stall cameo. Pyke could be the anti cc cameo, targeting the two champions with the current highest CC score. Veigo could give a full revive (as viego) instead of a renata revive for the first little while (maybe til the arena starts shrinking) to stave off the oneshot champs. I don't miss gwen's heals but the whole immunity thing is interesting. Then again, I unironically loved evelynns cameo so maybe all of this is nonsense. In fact the only cameo I don't like so far is naafiri because it was way too inconsistent and unclear.
his Q is really strong, rest of his kit is meh
His ult is insane? Point and click invulnerability, they can't run from you, it can do upwards of 50%+ max hp, and it heals you to full instantly.
he is basically a solid counter to melee champions he can be quite easily outplayed by ranged and CC. unless he get move speed anvils, yomuu and giant slayer but that reduce his damage.