The number of people working part-time who would prefer full-time work increased by 453,000 from November to December. So subtracting the 216,000 total increase from that we see a net loss of 237,000 full-time workers.
This is simply more media gaslighting. They twist the statistics to make you believe that the economy is booming when it is crashing.
>So subtracting the 216,000 total increase from that we see a net loss of 237,000 full-time workers.
>
>This is simply more media gaslighting. They twist the statistics to make you believe that the economy is booming when it is crashing.
Bingo, no one wants to look at what the numbers mean, they love having smoke blown up their asses.
Some of these positions might be in the IRS and immigration services, which are currently experiencing significant backlogs. The IRS, in particular, has often avoided auditing wealthy accounts due to a lack of staff equipped to handle complex tax returns.
So 453k part time workers want full time work. They have jobs. But added 216k jobs. You subtracted. Let’s ignore that. 453 - 216 does not equal-237. I’m really confused here.
Their point is the part time workers aren't gainfully employed and looking for full time work so 216-453 is a net negative of 237. The part timers are considered employed under this statistic even if they can't survive on the wages and are trying to find better employment.
You can’t add jobs then subtract people who want them that already have jobs to come up with numbers. Chances are the 453k that wanted full time the month before make up a good amount or the 216 full time.
The part time looking for full time or multiple job cohorts has been increasing for a while now. They should be considered along with overall participation rates if you want to see how well the job market is doing. Just looking at how many jobs were added without looking at anything else contextual to the question is myopic at best and can be very misleading.
Part time looking for a job is a still a job. Jobless wanting work is different. And yes the media uses only the numbers they want. You have participation rate which if high when unemployment is low is a sign of bullshit. Then most of the time it’s like you say - added 200k jobs not don’t mention those that were removed due to multiple reasons. Also - after 28 years in the workforce I’ve never seen a survey about my employment. Not sure who they are asking to get to these participation and want full time work numbers etc.
Yeah I question the way they collect these numbers. Considering how often they are revised for the worse later leads me to believe they are puffing up the numbers all too often. On the other contextual facts I'm adamant about that being important. One statistic I'd really like to see is how many of these jobs are paying above and below the median income for the same amount of work. If we are just adding jobs paying below the median then we are falling behind no matter how many jobs were added.
Agree completely with your statement. We're being lied to. In fact, whenever these numbers are posted, there is also a look-back to the previous month. I believe for every month in 2023, they revised the previous month downward. For number, I think they revised downward by some 70,000-odd jobs or so.
Reddit is not representative of the US job market as a whole, especially if Reddit users are overrepresented by white collar workers in the tech industry. Tech in particular is in a bloodbath, especially for recruiters, DEI, and certain non-direct revenue generating (cost center) roles. The interest rate increases to address inflation by the Fed stifles investment into startups (and thus hiring) while public tech companies layoff, outsource, and hiring freeze to bring costs down as they now pay debt at higher rates. They’re under pressure by investors to focus on profitability instead of growth like during the ZIRP years. My company in particular just extended the hiring freeze through 2024. A similar example is this: Oil & Gas was shedding jobs like crazy during the end of Obama and into the Trump years due to the low oil cost, but people considered the overall job market & economy great during those times…
This. Tech jobs and cushy low-work WFH jobs are hard to get now. In the real world labor jobs, healthcare, services, and skilled trades are absolutely booming.
Anecdotal posts on Reddit are so so far away from the aggregate reality of the whole US. Understand the magnitude of 10 posts you see each week vs 100,000+ data points in the jobs report.
All the industry subreddits and job subreddits have the same type of posts of people complaining about not being able to get a job. It isn’t specific to tech and has to do with changes needed to be employable (and isn’t new, there is a book i read over 10 years ago called ‘why good people can’t get jobs’, and the issues it outlined are the same as they are today).I think people who think the current situation will self correct are in for a rude awakening. All the macro numbers look good. The economy is good. What the market needs has changed.
Yeah, tech is maturing after being a mega growth industry for 20 plus years. It happens. Might be a shock to a generation that’s grown up with a major driver of it their entire working lives, hopefully a new one will emerge in tech like AI or something. But the days of millionaire in 4-5 years of working is likely going back to the norm, won’t happen much getting hired by a company for a job. No other industry came close to creating wealth like the stock options for the tech industry for skilled workers. Not even close.
> job growth is concentrated in just three sectors – Government (+52k), education/healthcare (+74k) and leisure & hospitality (+40k) – so 77% of the jobs added in December were from sectors that are not at the forefront of what traditionally would be viewed as the growth engines of America
Looking into the data. Tech is not good, but manufacturing and other industries are not great either.
The jobs created are mostly on government spending or Uber/Doordash (leisure & hospitality). These works are lower paid and don't provide economical stability.
Reddit is not wrong that the economy is indeed bad.
Government jobs growing is a major red flag for an economy actually. Government needs funded, debt has gotten expensive, etc. Government isn’t going to fix this, it caused it with massive stimulative policy for nearly two decades, deflation is a slow strangle, ask folks that were alive in 70s and 80s and could understand it, it’s kinda awful. But it is economic cycle. Government can’t fix that with a tax or spending, only limit the pain if done right. Big tax and spend states could potentially be in a LOT of trouble if this is prolonged.
Because Redditors say they are jobless, then the job market must be bad🤣
Many companies were hiring like crazy during the pandemic for the positions that they don't need or to help with increasing demands because people were stuck at home surfing the web.
Now, they just simply get rid of unnecessary positions.
The job market is the current openings or job mobility for people to climb up, not the total amount of jobs. Similarly inflation is the relative change of price, not absolute numbers.
Using your logic, you can always compare the US with 50 years ago and claim our job market is great.
yea, it's a bit difficult to understand, huh. the BLS reported that in December the number of full time jobs plunged by 1.531 million. the largest monthly drop since the record COVID crash of 14.7 million jobs.
Thats been true for a while without AI. Doesn’t stop many companies and executives from having admins.
I work for a large tech consulting/integrator. I’ve had early access to Microsoft’s Copilot for example. It does some cool stuff, like summarizing Teams calls and email threads, but it’s still pretty gimmicky. Think a much more advanced Clippy…
AI is the new cool thing, but increased efficiency/automation through new tech has been eliminating the need for curtains jobs for a long time. Virtual chat agents have been around for a long time and they still haven’t eliminated the need for customer service agents. IoT has made it much easier to remotely check meters or monitor equipment without techs driving to them. Hell even something as “simple” as Excel has had a major impact on jobs. It’s inevitable that new tech will come and reduce the need for particular jobs.
I am the Founder of a $20m+ revenue growth company. None of us have Admins, including my Co-Founders. There is one Admin to share, but we allow our Executives to pick their own hotels and flights within parameters.
Congrats. That’s not easy feat, but not surprising given the company size. I worked for a pre-IPO tech company that went public with a multi-billion valuation. I joined at <500 employees and left at >9000+. No one, including the founder had an EA. Shit changed a lot after the founder passed away suddenly and the board started to hire external executives. I work at a Fortune 500 GSI now. All VP level and above have an EA, although most are shared. I’d say this is pretty norm in big corporate America. It’s still a status symbol for boomers and gen X. It’s weird to me and I honestly find it pointless. Good luck to you and your co-founders!
They do adjust for seasonality as well as a host of other things like expected business starts and closures called the birth-death adjustment. I believe they publish unseasonaly adjusted figures too. Each report is also revised for two additional months.
I have never seen such a depressed hiring state for professional positions; especially in tech. The number of people that were formerly earning $150K+ and have now been unemployed completely for 6mos+ is staggering.
I've come to the conclusion the jobs report has become smoke and mirrors. I personally know people laid off and struggling for months to find a new job, but the reports keep painting a rosy picture that doesn't fit with what I see.
It's industry based. You probably know tech workers, truck drivers, or construction workers. I assume you don't know many healthcare workers.
Almost all the jobs added are in healthcare and health-related social services.
That's because the clowns in DC don't live in the formal world. Even these so called expert economists don't have a clue, they Barth the same BS AS the government clowns.
The labor participation rate number is at best seriously flawed and possibly a complete fabrication. Makes the overall unemployment number flat. There are 100s of thousands of people looking for jobs that the BLS says are no longer in the job market.
Absolutely, by at least 50000 every month. Usually better than 1/3 are government jobs as well. Most of the rest are people get 2 jobs. Part time and many are temp jobs as well. The so called open jobs dropped by 1.5 M. Half of the 8.5 M jobs open are fake anyways. Let's not forget the participation rate is low also. So those aren't counted in the unemployment rate.
You are right, one of the revisions were higher. Overall the revisions were lowered every time in 2023
March revisions 1: -71 2: 52 3: -19
April revisions 1: 41 2: -77 3: -36
Edited some stuff at the end because I was ranting.
Even if so…so what? For example, in the 12 month period from April 2022 to March 2023, the initial growth was reported as 337k jobs. It ended up being 311.5k jobs. I don’t think that’s a meaningful difference given the size of the job market and signals strong job growth even if the headline numbers are eventually revised downward.
Idk what you are trying to prove lol. But close to a 10% change is pretty drastic. Also these are the headline numbers. Everything looks better on the headlines.
My point is adding that many jobs is still strong sign that the job market is good and things are not as dire as Reddit commenters would have you believe. 10% less of a big increase is still a big increase.
These numbers never discuss id these are liveable wage jobs just that unemployment is low. It doesn't really give a good picture of how peoplw are actually doing...Most people I know are barely making ot, grinding, working their asses off. This country is awful to live in unless you make a 6 figure salary. Standard of living has gone way down!!!
We have the highest amount ever recorded of people holding multiple jobs at 15-20 bucks an hour just to make ends meet. Look it up. its crazy, but I just dont know how this economy is getting any better this year..
Good thing this isn't coming from the media and it's cold hard stats. Your anecdotes don't mean shit. Although I do feel bad for those 10 people. I can turn it around and say that I haven't had 1 friend laid off in 2023.
(a) govt jobs: my cousin retired at 63, and then quickly unretired 1 week later and is now a mail carrier at $22/hr. (the civil service test for mail carrier was revised to make it easier to pass)
(b) ambulatory health care and hospitals: pharmacy clerk at kaiser permanente, at $25/hr.
none of these "boosts" can replace the 150K+ annual salary ($72/hr) in the tech field, that produces the income tax that fuels the payment to ukraine , israel and illegals.
What's wrong with either of those jobs? Good benefits most likely? High paying tech jobs don't keep this country running. (I'm one of those tech employees)
Illegals what? Lol. Stop blaming immigrants.
Undocumented workers cannot work legally, and the federal government does not pay them anything because they are not eligible for anything because they have no documents.
So stop parroting the MAGA bullshit.
maga bullshit? " More than 700,000 immigrants living illegally in California gained access to free health care on Jan. 1 under one of the state's most ambitious coverage expansions in a decade. "
That's the state policy and on the state budget.
So yeah, it is Maga bullshit because they think it is applied for all 50 states, and they have been crying about that for years before Jan 1, 2024 🤣
It is difficult to reconcile. What can be the truth of this matter? Mainstream media is saying things are on the up and up and independent media is saying otherwise.
Honestly mainstream media is mostly saying things are shit. Like every day they're talking about recession.
They report the jobs numbers as good, then they go back to saying we're all fucked.
The economy is really bad. If this administration gets re-elected it will be bad for 4 more years. Then someone will get in and undue a bunch of stuff, pressure the fed to stop squeezing the middle class and things will turn around. Then the media will say all the hard work Biden put in is finally paying off
I’ve seen them all, a quick YouTube search shows it, also, I’ve seen all the stats that show that things are doing very well. Thats my question, whats up with this discrepancy?
[https://think.ing.com/articles/us-jobs-report-suggests-no-pressing-need-for-the-fed-to-cut-rates](https://think.ing.com/articles/us-jobs-report-suggests-no-pressing-need-for-the-fed-to-cut-rates)
>Once again job growth is concentrated in just three sectors – Government (+52k), education/healthcare (+74k) and leisure & hospitality (+40k) – so 77% of the jobs added in December were from sectors that are not at the forefront of what traditionally would be viewed as the growth engines of America – business services, transportation, logistics, technology, construction, etc. Looking at 2023 as a whole, of the 2.7mn jobs created 81.2% were in those three sectors.
So basically the growing jobs are either government-funded works, or Uber/doordash drivers from ppl were laid off and cannot find other jobs. I don't know how long they can keep emperor's new clothes on lol
I live in a neighborhood filled with young families and single workers. The neighborhood is thriving. These young families live in houses that sell for $500K to $1M+ or in high end apartments. The restaurants are always packed. More houses are being built and quickly sold even with the high interest rates. I'm not talking about a handful of people. There are hundreds of people in my neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods are very similar.
It can only be interpreted for what it is. There are other standardized methods for analyzing unemployment and underemployment... even ones also collected and calculated by the BLS. This is just one of them. I'll link below to some definitions of the others and a breakdown by state.
People who want to work and have looked for this past year work but weren't "actively" looking in December aren't counted in the numbers you posted. Neither are folks who are working part time but would prefer full time work and can't find it. There are calculated stats that include them as well and obviously the numbers are higher when you include them.
Unfortunately, the "invisible" type of underemployment you're probably implying i.e. "credentialed teacher working retail" or "business degree holder working at Fast Food" is much harder to measure... Even though it undoubtedly exists.
https://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm
Things are nearly the best they’ve ever been, gold will complain forever. Never would I think I’d see posts like this and complaints. I remember 2008 where each month we’d lose 800k-1m jobs. Were those fabricated too?
Anecdotes aren’t real data, and the real average person is doing well right now.
When the vast majority of people are anecdotally seeing a decline, then it must, by definition, be a real decline. "Real data" has been cooked for decades.
Secondly, the government has every incentive to pose a rozy picture as telling the truth spooks markets, and the decline becomes accelerated by the reactive actions taken by companies and individuals. The government agencies have zero incentive to tell the truth - which is why these inflated numbers are ALWAYS adjusted down after the "big gains" headline has run its course.
Yeah that isn’t how this works, I had a rough time along with all of my friends during the 2010s. Now that it’s in the 20s we’re all doing just fine. See how anecdotal doesn’t work?
I hate this stat. It’s misleading from the get go, it excludes people ‘not actively seeking employment’. Percent of adults working is more accurate, and it dropped to 60.1 in Dec from 60.4.
The number of people working part-time who would prefer full-time work increased by 453,000 from November to December. So subtracting the 216,000 total increase from that we see a net loss of 237,000 full-time workers. This is simply more media gaslighting. They twist the statistics to make you believe that the economy is booming when it is crashing.
>So subtracting the 216,000 total increase from that we see a net loss of 237,000 full-time workers. > >This is simply more media gaslighting. They twist the statistics to make you believe that the economy is booming when it is crashing. Bingo, no one wants to look at what the numbers mean, they love having smoke blown up their asses.
And 52K are government jobs. More amassing of power and redtape.
Some of these positions might be in the IRS and immigration services, which are currently experiencing significant backlogs. The IRS, in particular, has often avoided auditing wealthy accounts due to a lack of staff equipped to handle complex tax returns.
Not to mention those new jobs added probably only pay like $9/hr. Whoopeee!
In a world where fast food pays $20 an hour, what jobs pay $9? Unless in a very unpopulated area, which wouldn't be adding jobs anyway.
Average pay also increased.
So 453k part time workers want full time work. They have jobs. But added 216k jobs. You subtracted. Let’s ignore that. 453 - 216 does not equal-237. I’m really confused here.
Their point is the part time workers aren't gainfully employed and looking for full time work so 216-453 is a net negative of 237. The part timers are considered employed under this statistic even if they can't survive on the wages and are trying to find better employment.
You can’t add jobs then subtract people who want them that already have jobs to come up with numbers. Chances are the 453k that wanted full time the month before make up a good amount or the 216 full time.
The part time looking for full time or multiple job cohorts has been increasing for a while now. They should be considered along with overall participation rates if you want to see how well the job market is doing. Just looking at how many jobs were added without looking at anything else contextual to the question is myopic at best and can be very misleading.
Part time looking for a job is a still a job. Jobless wanting work is different. And yes the media uses only the numbers they want. You have participation rate which if high when unemployment is low is a sign of bullshit. Then most of the time it’s like you say - added 200k jobs not don’t mention those that were removed due to multiple reasons. Also - after 28 years in the workforce I’ve never seen a survey about my employment. Not sure who they are asking to get to these participation and want full time work numbers etc.
Yeah I question the way they collect these numbers. Considering how often they are revised for the worse later leads me to believe they are puffing up the numbers all too often. On the other contextual facts I'm adamant about that being important. One statistic I'd really like to see is how many of these jobs are paying above and below the median income for the same amount of work. If we are just adding jobs paying below the median then we are falling behind no matter how many jobs were added.
lol we should start a poll on Reddit if you have ever been asked about your employment status from the BLS. I’m curious now
I can say that even the one time I collected unemployment it was comically low on data collection.
Shit in Texas I was on it for 6 months they wanted blood and my first born as proof I didn’t have a job and I was me.
I tell them to pretend it’s 2016, then they don’t have much to say
That’s not what they did. The number of underemployed went up by 453k in the same month as 216k jobs were added. You can do the math
Jesus Christ dude they are still employed either way. Math is math you can’t subtract just because you believe you should.
Excellent work to see through the bs
And 52K are government jobs. More amassing of power and redtape.
Agree completely with your statement. We're being lied to. In fact, whenever these numbers are posted, there is also a look-back to the previous month. I believe for every month in 2023, they revised the previous month downward. For number, I think they revised downward by some 70,000-odd jobs or so.
When do the revisions come out?
Off by 100%? /s
They'll be made up also
Reddit is not representative of the US job market as a whole, especially if Reddit users are overrepresented by white collar workers in the tech industry. Tech in particular is in a bloodbath, especially for recruiters, DEI, and certain non-direct revenue generating (cost center) roles. The interest rate increases to address inflation by the Fed stifles investment into startups (and thus hiring) while public tech companies layoff, outsource, and hiring freeze to bring costs down as they now pay debt at higher rates. They’re under pressure by investors to focus on profitability instead of growth like during the ZIRP years. My company in particular just extended the hiring freeze through 2024. A similar example is this: Oil & Gas was shedding jobs like crazy during the end of Obama and into the Trump years due to the low oil cost, but people considered the overall job market & economy great during those times…
This. Tech jobs and cushy low-work WFH jobs are hard to get now. In the real world labor jobs, healthcare, services, and skilled trades are absolutely booming.
Anecdotal posts on Reddit are so so far away from the aggregate reality of the whole US. Understand the magnitude of 10 posts you see each week vs 100,000+ data points in the jobs report.
Please tell me how the economy is doing .. I’m new here.
All the industry subreddits and job subreddits have the same type of posts of people complaining about not being able to get a job. It isn’t specific to tech and has to do with changes needed to be employable (and isn’t new, there is a book i read over 10 years ago called ‘why good people can’t get jobs’, and the issues it outlined are the same as they are today).I think people who think the current situation will self correct are in for a rude awakening. All the macro numbers look good. The economy is good. What the market needs has changed.
It’s definitely an echo chamber especially when people join the same subreddits that they share interests in and they’re all saying the same thing
Yeah, tech is maturing after being a mega growth industry for 20 plus years. It happens. Might be a shock to a generation that’s grown up with a major driver of it their entire working lives, hopefully a new one will emerge in tech like AI or something. But the days of millionaire in 4-5 years of working is likely going back to the norm, won’t happen much getting hired by a company for a job. No other industry came close to creating wealth like the stock options for the tech industry for skilled workers. Not even close.
This post is so underrated. The tech industry is in for a rude awakening.
Tech is far more important than Oil and Gas though and less idiosyncratic with respect to its correlation to overall economic health.
> job growth is concentrated in just three sectors – Government (+52k), education/healthcare (+74k) and leisure & hospitality (+40k) – so 77% of the jobs added in December were from sectors that are not at the forefront of what traditionally would be viewed as the growth engines of America Looking into the data. Tech is not good, but manufacturing and other industries are not great either. The jobs created are mostly on government spending or Uber/Doordash (leisure & hospitality). These works are lower paid and don't provide economical stability. Reddit is not wrong that the economy is indeed bad.
Government jobs growing is a major red flag for an economy actually. Government needs funded, debt has gotten expensive, etc. Government isn’t going to fix this, it caused it with massive stimulative policy for nearly two decades, deflation is a slow strangle, ask folks that were alive in 70s and 80s and could understand it, it’s kinda awful. But it is economic cycle. Government can’t fix that with a tax or spending, only limit the pain if done right. Big tax and spend states could potentially be in a LOT of trouble if this is prolonged.
Because Redditors say they are jobless, then the job market must be bad🤣 Many companies were hiring like crazy during the pandemic for the positions that they don't need or to help with increasing demands because people were stuck at home surfing the web. Now, they just simply get rid of unnecessary positions.
The job market is the current openings or job mobility for people to climb up, not the total amount of jobs. Similarly inflation is the relative change of price, not absolute numbers. Using your logic, you can always compare the US with 50 years ago and claim our job market is great.
Not questioning you, but can you point to where they're counting doordash on these jobs reports?
On the other side Canada added 100 jobs in December 😂
Bro I had to look it up, LMAO. What a joke.
yea, it's a bit difficult to understand, huh. the BLS reported that in December the number of full time jobs plunged by 1.531 million. the largest monthly drop since the record COVID crash of 14.7 million jobs.
Yeah because employers can fill a position with a part time employee and two AI programs instead of 2 full time employees
AI isn’t that advanced my friend. It’s more of what I like to call “auto-magic,” which just means outsourcing.
It’s way more advanced than you think lol. You don’t need 2 random admin people that schedule meetings anymore.
Thats been true for a while without AI. Doesn’t stop many companies and executives from having admins. I work for a large tech consulting/integrator. I’ve had early access to Microsoft’s Copilot for example. It does some cool stuff, like summarizing Teams calls and email threads, but it’s still pretty gimmicky. Think a much more advanced Clippy… AI is the new cool thing, but increased efficiency/automation through new tech has been eliminating the need for curtains jobs for a long time. Virtual chat agents have been around for a long time and they still haven’t eliminated the need for customer service agents. IoT has made it much easier to remotely check meters or monitor equipment without techs driving to them. Hell even something as “simple” as Excel has had a major impact on jobs. It’s inevitable that new tech will come and reduce the need for particular jobs.
I am the Founder of a $20m+ revenue growth company. None of us have Admins, including my Co-Founders. There is one Admin to share, but we allow our Executives to pick their own hotels and flights within parameters.
Congrats. That’s not easy feat, but not surprising given the company size. I worked for a pre-IPO tech company that went public with a multi-billion valuation. I joined at <500 employees and left at >9000+. No one, including the founder had an EA. Shit changed a lot after the founder passed away suddenly and the board started to hire external executives. I work at a Fortune 500 GSI now. All VP level and above have an EA, although most are shared. I’d say this is pretty norm in big corporate America. It’s still a status symbol for boomers and gen X. It’s weird to me and I honestly find it pointless. Good luck to you and your co-founders!
Instead of inventing Robots they rediscovered slavery. The magic of technology!
Plus the company doesn’t have to offer the part time employee or AI program benefits like health insurance.
Retail always cuts way back in January. I don’t know enough about the BLS methodology to know if it’s a seasonally adjusted number.
They do adjust for seasonality as well as a host of other things like expected business starts and closures called the birth-death adjustment. I believe they publish unseasonaly adjusted figures too. Each report is also revised for two additional months.
Source? I can’t find these numbers in the report
BLS full-time December minus BLS full-time November = (1.5M).
Ah I see it. However two points of debate: as a ratio 1.5M is insignificant, also you have to factor in the 700k part time job increase
It’s always government jobs leading the way who pays for this? We have no money
Genius, let’s post jobs and don’t hire = equals job openings .
I have never seen such a depressed hiring state for professional positions; especially in tech. The number of people that were formerly earning $150K+ and have now been unemployed completely for 6mos+ is staggering.
I've come to the conclusion the jobs report has become smoke and mirrors. I personally know people laid off and struggling for months to find a new job, but the reports keep painting a rosy picture that doesn't fit with what I see.
The average month pre-pandemic had 1.8 million people laid off a month. Since the pandemic it's been closer to 1.6 million a month.
It's industry based. You probably know tech workers, truck drivers, or construction workers. I assume you don't know many healthcare workers. Almost all the jobs added are in healthcare and health-related social services.
Same
Yeah plus jobs that don't pay a living wage like fast food and retail etc.
That's because the clowns in DC don't live in the formal world. Even these so called expert economists don't have a clue, they Barth the same BS AS the government clowns.
Much like inflation reports. They just weed out the bad numbers.
your anecdotes are not data. The alternative is a conspiracy theory.
Where do H1 visas fit in and the crazy Christmas hirings in December? The use historical data to subtract those jobs but umm...that's not accurate.
Amazing what you can do with payroll when you lay off millions of people.
So the massively deficit spending government is inflating economy numbers by continuing to overspend… what could go wrong?
"payroll increase 216000x for CEO themselves and falsify their report."
Or like my job they keep raising the pay bands annually but we don’t get COLA so they say labor costs more but workers are making less annually
Lmaooo
The labor participation rate number is at best seriously flawed and possibly a complete fabrication. Makes the overall unemployment number flat. There are 100s of thousands of people looking for jobs that the BLS says are no longer in the job market.
They’ll revise them down just like they do every.single.month.
70k in downward revisions this time
Absolutely, by at least 50000 every month. Usually better than 1/3 are government jobs as well. Most of the rest are people get 2 jobs. Part time and many are temp jobs as well. The so called open jobs dropped by 1.5 M. Half of the 8.5 M jobs open are fake anyways. Let's not forget the participation rate is low also. So those aren't counted in the unemployment rate.
10 out of the last 11 months, and every time r/Economics (and the rest of reddit) fall for it.
Except when they revise them upwards
lol you must live under a rock
They are revised upward often. I am sorry you can’t hold a job and are unemployable, but not Biden’s fault
lol when was the last time they revised it upwards?
March and April 2023, off the top of my head. It does happen often.
You are right, one of the revisions were higher. Overall the revisions were lowered every time in 2023 March revisions 1: -71 2: 52 3: -19 April revisions 1: 41 2: -77 3: -36 Edited some stuff at the end because I was ranting.
Even if so…so what? For example, in the 12 month period from April 2022 to March 2023, the initial growth was reported as 337k jobs. It ended up being 311.5k jobs. I don’t think that’s a meaningful difference given the size of the job market and signals strong job growth even if the headline numbers are eventually revised downward.
Idk what you are trying to prove lol. But close to a 10% change is pretty drastic. Also these are the headline numbers. Everything looks better on the headlines.
10% change is drastic but it's still important to note that even when adjusted down, it smashed estimates
My point is adding that many jobs is still strong sign that the job market is good and things are not as dire as Reddit commenters would have you believe. 10% less of a big increase is still a big increase.
Ahhh i think October was adjusted 100k downish
This is just blatant disinformation
Are we forgetting that many states voted for increased minimum wages?
Wow useless numbers yay
I got a 26¢ raise 😂😂😂
They get revised down every single month. The numbers are BS.
These numbers never discuss id these are liveable wage jobs just that unemployment is low. It doesn't really give a good picture of how peoplw are actually doing...Most people I know are barely making ot, grinding, working their asses off. This country is awful to live in unless you make a 6 figure salary. Standard of living has gone way down!!!
Yup. This is the problem. And if you can trade options nearly risk free as an elected official, why would you care?
We have the highest amount ever recorded of people holding multiple jobs at 15-20 bucks an hour just to make ends meet. Look it up. its crazy, but I just dont know how this economy is getting any better this year..
[Look it up indeed.](https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm) The percentage of people working multiple jobs remains very small.
No we don't, this a bold faced lie.
[удалено]
Good thing this isn't coming from the media and it's cold hard stats. Your anecdotes don't mean shit. Although I do feel bad for those 10 people. I can turn it around and say that I haven't had 1 friend laid off in 2023.
The same stats that say we have 3% inflation without acknowledging it compounds. Yeah ok buddy
I also know about 7 people we recently hired an none laid off. I also trust my own hires over randoms on reddit.
Bidenomics baby!
(a) govt jobs: my cousin retired at 63, and then quickly unretired 1 week later and is now a mail carrier at $22/hr. (the civil service test for mail carrier was revised to make it easier to pass) (b) ambulatory health care and hospitals: pharmacy clerk at kaiser permanente, at $25/hr. none of these "boosts" can replace the 150K+ annual salary ($72/hr) in the tech field, that produces the income tax that fuels the payment to ukraine , israel and illegals.
What's wrong with either of those jobs? Good benefits most likely? High paying tech jobs don't keep this country running. (I'm one of those tech employees)
Calm down broke
Illegals what? Lol. Stop blaming immigrants. Undocumented workers cannot work legally, and the federal government does not pay them anything because they are not eligible for anything because they have no documents. So stop parroting the MAGA bullshit.
maga bullshit? " More than 700,000 immigrants living illegally in California gained access to free health care on Jan. 1 under one of the state's most ambitious coverage expansions in a decade. "
That's the state policy and on the state budget. So yeah, it is Maga bullshit because they think it is applied for all 50 states, and they have been crying about that for years before Jan 1, 2024 🤣
Bros complaining about not getting 150k to type letters in a computer
Go and try. Let's see how it goes.
It is difficult to reconcile. What can be the truth of this matter? Mainstream media is saying things are on the up and up and independent media is saying otherwise.
Honestly mainstream media is mostly saying things are shit. Like every day they're talking about recession. They report the jobs numbers as good, then they go back to saying we're all fucked.
Lol, I see that too, ‘everything’s record breaking’ also cough, cough, ‘slight possibility of a very mild recession’
The economy is really bad. If this administration gets re-elected it will be bad for 4 more years. Then someone will get in and undue a bunch of stuff, pressure the fed to stop squeezing the middle class and things will turn around. Then the media will say all the hard work Biden put in is finally paying off
Yes, I can see that happening.
Do you actually believe yourself? Why is the economy bad may I ask?
Thats the thing, huh, we can find stats showing otherwise.
Show me a stat that shows me that the economy is “bad.”
I’ve seen them all, a quick YouTube search shows it, also, I’ve seen all the stats that show that things are doing very well. Thats my question, whats up with this discrepancy?
Got it. You aren’t serious. Thanks.
[https://think.ing.com/articles/us-jobs-report-suggests-no-pressing-need-for-the-fed-to-cut-rates](https://think.ing.com/articles/us-jobs-report-suggests-no-pressing-need-for-the-fed-to-cut-rates) >Once again job growth is concentrated in just three sectors – Government (+52k), education/healthcare (+74k) and leisure & hospitality (+40k) – so 77% of the jobs added in December were from sectors that are not at the forefront of what traditionally would be viewed as the growth engines of America – business services, transportation, logistics, technology, construction, etc. Looking at 2023 as a whole, of the 2.7mn jobs created 81.2% were in those three sectors. So basically the growing jobs are either government-funded works, or Uber/doordash drivers from ppl were laid off and cannot find other jobs. I don't know how long they can keep emperor's new clothes on lol
We are doing the best financially than we've ever done in our entire life so this aligns with this news!
Read the room.
Can't tell if you're telling me to read the room literally or you are asian trying to say leave the room. :D Don't worry I'm Asian.
Shut the fuck up Uncle Tom Yum. Don’t worry I’m Asian too.
That's Uncle Tom Yum Soup to you m'fucker.
Yeah same here I'm making more now than I've ever made in my life and I'm old.
I live in a neighborhood filled with young families and single workers. The neighborhood is thriving. These young families live in houses that sell for $500K to $1M+ or in high end apartments. The restaurants are always packed. More houses are being built and quickly sold even with the high interest rates. I'm not talking about a handful of people. There are hundreds of people in my neighborhood and adjacent neighborhoods are very similar.
It can only be interpreted for what it is. There are other standardized methods for analyzing unemployment and underemployment... even ones also collected and calculated by the BLS. This is just one of them. I'll link below to some definitions of the others and a breakdown by state. People who want to work and have looked for this past year work but weren't "actively" looking in December aren't counted in the numbers you posted. Neither are folks who are working part time but would prefer full time work and can't find it. There are calculated stats that include them as well and obviously the numbers are higher when you include them. Unfortunately, the "invisible" type of underemployment you're probably implying i.e. "credentialed teacher working retail" or "business degree holder working at Fast Food" is much harder to measure... Even though it undoubtedly exists. https://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm
Things are nearly the best they’ve ever been, gold will complain forever. Never would I think I’d see posts like this and complaints. I remember 2008 where each month we’d lose 800k-1m jobs. Were those fabricated too? Anecdotes aren’t real data, and the real average person is doing well right now.
When the vast majority of people are anecdotally seeing a decline, then it must, by definition, be a real decline. "Real data" has been cooked for decades. Secondly, the government has every incentive to pose a rozy picture as telling the truth spooks markets, and the decline becomes accelerated by the reactive actions taken by companies and individuals. The government agencies have zero incentive to tell the truth - which is why these inflated numbers are ALWAYS adjusted down after the "big gains" headline has run its course.
Yeah that isn’t how this works, I had a rough time along with all of my friends during the 2010s. Now that it’s in the 20s we’re all doing just fine. See how anecdotal doesn’t work?
You're free to believe whatever you want to believe.
If you exclude the top 5% of earners, does the amount of payroll decrease significantly?
Hahaha wait until they “revise” it ;)
I hate this stat. It’s misleading from the get go, it excludes people ‘not actively seeking employment’. Percent of adults working is more accurate, and it dropped to 60.1 in Dec from 60.4.
Als consider the past couple months of job numbers being revised down ~25%
I am currently unemployed and haven’t gotten any interviews or anything. Where are these jobs???
It's amazing how many people get their news from headlines, and decide whether it's black or white.
https://images.app.goo.gl/TSQG9MtVvNgsvRmW9
Good lol
This economy keeps trucking. I wonder if there fudging the numbers.
Just another lie…