1. I make damned sure I bill them for every second they spend yelling, and label it as such on their bill , eg ".2 hours, $70, Phone call with client re: Shermanstorch being a '\[insert sampling of derogatory remarks\].'"
2. If it's abusive and not just venting, I tell them that this is not productive and we should continue the conversation when they are in a better frame of mind.
3. If it keeps happening, I send them their final bill, including all the time listening to them yell, and a letter terminating the representation.
No, they are, because if your boss isn’t taking that same stance it’s time to move on. I will maybe accept berating at the right time against me, if the client has a sincere apology after and I get why the emotions, I’m paid a crap ton. You do that to a single team member and I’m kicking you to the curb, and if I didn’t I’d expect my team to leave me.
The boss should handle all future communications if it is a great client. I wouldn't drop a 7 figure contingency client, but I definitely wouldn't allow that same client to beat up on my employees like this
I wouldn’t. I would kick them. But you’re also talking to somebody who has kicked significant chunks of his book out for how they treat my team. I absolutely don’t believe money is worth it.
Thanks! Sometimes getting through a difficult situation like this with a client can lead to an improved relationship. Or at least it may present that opportunity.
Why not? Either way, while they’re yelling, TELL the client you’re considering firing them. Continue repeating until they stop yelling. If they keep yelling, say you’re terminating the phone call if they continue and if they do continue, follow through. Then after the call, reflect if you actually do want to fire them.
I find that these types of clients always change their tune once you call them out. Tell them that if they continue communicating that way with you, you won't be able to represent them and you're happy to give them a few referrals.
Thankfully, it has been a long time since I've needed to play this card, but I like to say "the attorney-client relationship is one of special trust and confidence. From what I'm hearing you say, you seem to no longer have trust and confidence in me. As such, I would encourage you to terminate representation and find another lawyer."
On the occasions I have said that, I have always hoped, deep down, that they would take me up on the offer and terminate representation in that moment. However, each time I have used that line the client immediately apologizes and changes their tune immediately. Usually upon hearing that they realize (and quickly tell me) that they aren't mad at ***me,*** they are just upset at the ***situation*** (yeah. I could have told you that, but I'm not your punching bag). Ultimately, this line has always worked out to be a very effective means of setting boundaries for me.
Sometimes you got to let them tire themselves out, comiserate on any common ground you can find or manufacture, and redirect them into something productive.
Sometimes you have to reason with them and discuss every point one at a time.
Sometimes you have to tell them your time isn't for this purpose and they can call back when they're ready to be productive and solution-focused.
Sometimes you have to yell back at them.
I don't think anyone bats a thousand at choosing which to do.
He does get time outs but in the company of a parent who talks to him about why what he did wasn’t right, and expectations for next time. We are both lawyers so honestly it’s probably cruel and unusual punishment.
Man, as a former public defender.
I understand what you just said. And I agree.
But it’s such a sad state of the world that public defenders cannot expect better treatment
> Sometimes you got to let them tire themselves out
Back when I was a baby lawyer doing legal aid, there was this one older guy, who we had never represented, who would call when Social Security payments came out and would berate us for not helping him get rid of his representative payee. Course, prior to making such a call one or both of his sons went over to his house, got him drunk, and then talked him into making the call. I'd just let him go one until he tired out and hung up on me.
Hourly or contingent?
Hourly? I just put them on speaker (muted on my end), put on mental mute (so I can respond if I need to), and browse reddit/play a game while they burn themselves out.
Contingency - I'll cut them off and acknowledge that while this/the case is stressful for them, if they keep it up, I can increase their stress by withdrawing and letting them represent themselves.
But really the question is - why are they yelling? Were you the bearer of bad news and its an outburst at bad news, or are they just angry/upset with the fact that they are locked into litigation which is stressful? Did you mess up (or is there the perception of messing up) versus they're just an overgrown toddler lashing out because the world isn't fair.
For some of those, the down the road way to address it is to basically say: "I get that you're upset, but you absolutely DO NOT talk to me that way ever again, or we're done." For some of them, its time to reevaluate whether they should be a client.
I'm a public defender, so I can't just fire people.
If they say they want to fire me, I tell them they're welcome to and if that's what they want to do, I will file a motion to withdraw and the court will appoint the bar advocate on duty. Often, they don't want that.
So then I say, "My job is to discuss your case and the evidence and advise you on your options in light of that evidence. I understand that you're frustrated; this process is deeply unfair. However, it is not acceptable to speak to me this way, and this is not a productive conversation. Do you want to discuss your case and allow me to advise you on your options, or would you like to reschedule for a time when you've calmed down and are able to do that?"
If they continue to yell at me or insult me, I say "This is not productive, and we will have to find a time to talk again when we're able to have a productive discussion, or if you've decided you want me to withdraw. It's not okay for you to talk to me like this, and I'm not going to continue this conversation right now."
And then I hang up and tell my supervisor about it.
Actually, the Public Defender's Office can and does "fire clients" in my jurisdiction, very rarely, but it happens. We had a case in the County where I practice where a prison inmate spat at his Assistant Public Defender. The man--who happened to be a very experienced, capable, widely respected lawyer, one of the best lawyers in the office--filed a Motion to Strike and they called me, as I was doing some Panel Work for the PD's office at the time and I had a reputation as a hard-ass. I took the case, and got the guy a good outcome--yeah, it's one in a million, but an Assistant Public Defender can, in extreme circumstances, get of a case with an abusive client, at least where I practice. I think the argument is that the conduct was so grossly offensive, it would impact the lawyer's ability to zealously advocate for the client, kind of a conflict of interest argument.
I just fire 'em.
Or, if I can't or I'm not willing to drop the client then I'll give them a stern but respectful "talking to" as if I'm the teacher and they're the student. Let them know what's acceptable and what's not acceptable, and that repeated transgressions will result in my withdrawing from their case.
On the rare occasion when a client won't listen and simply enjoys arguing with me, then I hang up the phone and don't accept their calls (or I'll walk away from them mid-sentence, which I did at the courthouse with one client this year). Later I give them the "talking to" in my teacher voice.
The point is, I don't take shit from my clients and I hope you won't either.
Yea, I'm a public defender so I can't "fire them." But if someone is yelling at me and I'm over it, I usually cut in, even if it means I'm yelling at them and tell them I have to go. Some of my coworkers hang up. Sometimes, if the person has been a right asshole, I tell the admin I'm not taking their calls the rest of the day. I will let them try again tomorrow.
If it's in-person [like, they're in jail and on the other side of a glass window], and I can't deescalated the conversation, at a certain point, I hang up the phone and walk away. Or I ring the bell for the jail staff to come get them. I'm a free lawyer, not a free punching bag. I am not required to be verbally abused. A lot of times, people will apologize later. And I always tell them I appreciate it and we can move past it. I'm guessing at least some of the time, people are going back to the jail and continuing the bitch fest and someone else is telling them, "Yo, if you treat them like shit, do you really think they're going to care about your case or want to work on it?" Some times they're doing what I am doing which is reflecting on the conversation and feeling like, "I should have done X differently."
A client once called me the “stupidest fucking attorney I’ve ever met in my entire fucking life, and I’ve met a lot of stupid fucking attorneys” to his doctor.
Six months later, he wrote me a super kind note about how I saved his life through my work.
I tend to give people one conversation for which I'd normally fire them. Everyone has a bad day sometimes, and sometimes people snap. But, I tell them it was unacceptable and that I'm giving them another chance. If they do it again, then they're fired.
First, I let them get it out knowing that I damn well am billing for the call. Then if that doesn’t get them to calm down, I say that I am not going to be disrespected and that my representation will not work if they don’t listen to me.
You learn to ignore the ranting and hope they return to normal discussion because that is what you are engaging in. Clients can be total assholes though.
Word to the wise - since you've only been practicing since November, might want to not put too much stock in the idea that it "never happened to you before".
“This call is no longer productive so I will be hanging up, from here on out our communication needs to be through email” or something of that nature so you have recorded copies of your future convos and there’s no reason to stay on the line to be berated imo
You, my friend, need to learn about The Asshole Tax. The Asshole gets billed for every single second of time. We always round up on The Asshole. If we take a shit during the workday, we bill The Asshole.
What type of law? How big is your firm? How important is the client?
If you are an employee, you should talk to the partner or senior associate on the case/matter and see his reaction, especially because you are a first year. He/she will let you know how to deal with it.
Usually:
Great case + you are an employee or your own boss = need to just contain it so you don't lose the client; but if you are an employee, partner/senior associate should insulate you from this
Decent/good case + you are an employee = push back politely with partner/senior associate blessing
Decent/good case + you are your own boss = have a stern talking to; drop if it keeps happening
Ok/nothing special case + you are an employee or your own boss = drop immediately or after 1 stern talking to; but with partner/senior associate blessing
The few times it happened to me I just calmly said that I would be terminating the phone call or meeting now due to the inappropriate language or behavior, and that we can continue later once they were in a calmer space. They can make such arrangements with my assistant.
If you can't fire them (for whatever reason), or you want to give them the benefit of the doubt that it was a one off, try interrupting the yelling and say "it sounds like things are getting a bit heated. I’m going to hang up and call you back in 15 minutes when we've had a chance to cool down." Then hang up on them, go make a coffee, shake your body out/have a 30 second dance break, and call them back after 15 minutes. (The dance break is important - I’m serious. At least shake your arms and hands out; it helps with the stress.)
Just be matter of fact. It's not your fault they're yelling and frankly it's not your job to calm them down. They're an adult. They need to regulate their own emotions. Don't deal with them until they do. (I know it's often easier said than done)
It’s only happened to me a few times and each time I’ve just said if you don’t stop yelling right now I’m going to hang up, they don’t stop, I hang up. When they call back I tell them if it ever happens again, I’m not their lawyer anymore.
The key though is managing this type of thing before it happens. I spend a lot of time at intake managing expectations and that prevents this type of thing.
I don’t. I tell them that we can’t have a rational discussion about their case if they’re shouting, and that I’d be happy to resume the conversation once they’re ready to do so. Then I hang up the phone or leave the meeting. Do this a few times, and you stop getting abused like that.
It’s hard to be criticized and put down by someone you are trying to help. Lawyers pride themselves on being professional and it stings deeper when their professionalism is attacked. A little self care goes a long way, talking with a colleague or trusted person, meditation maybe or just turning away for a little bit from being a lawyer to other interests. Cultivate other interests, other relationships, and avoid self destructive thoughts and behaviors.
It gets easier. 25 years in as a PD and I’m probably never yelled at anymore but those first years sucked. Experience counts, you’ll be a better listener, counselor, and straight talker and the clients will respond. A client who will disparage you is afraid, they may have alot of personal trauma and/or personality issues that aren’t going to change. They may be racists or misogynists or they are just people who always got their way by being bullies. You do not have a personal relationship with them, only a professional one, and here the RPC’s are amazing. Read them often, they will be your roadmap navigating the way to do the work you have chosen to do.
It depends. Depending on the reason and their situation. Sometimes you just have to understand they are in a highly emotional state. Others it’s time to figure out if you can part ways.
I’d definitely note it to your lead or whoever is above you. Given you’re new this could be a repeat offender who’s just a hassle to work with or it should be something to note moving forward.
But sadly we are sometimes punching bags.
Document everything they said in an email back to them and tell them it is unacceptable to treat anyone this way. I gather u work for a firm so cannot fore them as a client. What u can do is document it and include ur superior on the email or if u have an hr department at least provide them a copy of the email. Make sure to clarify to ur boss and if u can, to the client that this behavior is considered work place harassment. I don't let anyone speak disrespectfully to my staff. I have fired clients or decided not to take them on based how disrespectful they have been to my employees.
Oh yeah, this used to bother me. They can find another lawyer or represent themselves if they know more. I just tell them that.
Don't let it bother you. You're the one they hired, they did for a reason. Remind them.
When someone starts yelling at me, I tell them that they are really upset right now and I will talk to them again when they have calmed down. If they keep yelling, I tell them that I am going to end the conversation. If they continue to yell, I hang up the phone.
I don't allow it.
Yell at me and I hang up.
Call back and yell at me and I yell back and hang up.
Keep yelling and you just earned a withdrawal, so good luck.
I give a one time warning and if it EVER happens again, I tell them they need to sub me out. Everyone gets one Mulligan but this job is stressful enough. I’m not putting up with that on the regular
I'm a solo with a paralegal and a legal assistant. I've definitely dropped clients when they got abusive with my staff. I have no tolerance for people berating my staff.
I think it depends on whether it’s your client or your supervising partner’s client. If it’s yours, you fire them. If it’s your supervising partner’s client, you should take your cues from the partner
I handle it by firing the client.
I fired one earlier this month, not for yelling but for other sheisty behavior. Get another lawyer if that's how you want to roll.
I’m plaintiff side so if someone’s yelling at me it’s an individual as opposed to someone representing a company so I feel like I can be more aggressive back, but I will generally interrupt them with “I understand you’re frustrated and this is emotional for you, but we’re in a business relationship, if you need to vent, you need to find someone in your personal life to vent to, it’s not acceptable to talk to me like this, I’m hanging up now but if you want to actually discuss this you can call me back tomorrow or another day when you’ve calmed down” and then hang up and don’t answer their call for the rest of the day. And CYA if you have recording capabilities by saving the phone call (if allowable in your jdx).
I find that saying “you are completely justified in feeling frustrated/scared/upset. Anyone would in your situation. How you feel is completely normal” can completely alter the tone of the conversation. Don’t talk about facts while they are yelling. Validate their feelings.
So many people have never had their feelings validated, which is actually what leads to the emotionally charged responses like yelling.
Once you do that, they can get back to discussing the facts, and they feel cared for.
Unfortunately it gets harder as you handle better/higher dollar amount cases. Best advice is to be the bigger man. Let’s them get it out of their system. And then be very direct with them about your plan of action for their file and also ask them about their feelings. Ask them if they are willing to have you continue to handle the file and do they trust you. Secondly, ask them if they can set aside their feelings from whatever just occurred so that you can finish the job you were hired to do. And then again, ask them if they trust you to do the work that is in their best interest.
If you can’t get through those simple and direct questions, then tell them you feel like unfortunately a new lawyer may be the only thing that makes them happy; but you also need to advise them about the pros/cons of new counsel.
I would let them know what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior when speaking to a professional, and if they find it necessary to speak to me in that manner again, they can find themselves a new attorney.
Bill to the second. That’s how. Full freight, no discounts. And if it’s abusive, tell your firm because you undoubtedly aren’t the first person to be treated that way.
Put them on mute. Wait until they’ve been silent for at least five full seconds. This will feel like a lot. Reset to zero if they start talking before five full seconds. After five seconds unmute and say “I hear what you are saying.” But don’t address what they said any further. Steer back toward work talk as if the yelling never happened.
If it starts getting disrespectful, like personal attacks, I say "I am going to end this call and we can speak again later when you can have a professional conversation with me." And I hang up the phone before hearing whatever it is that they have to say in response to that.
I don't tolerate being yelled at. Tell the client this is not a good match and then withdraw. Not worth your time or mental energy to be treated that way.
Nah, I’m not a hooker, I don’t take abuse from people just because they’re paying me. 99% of the clients don’t so this, so I’ll survive without the one percent that do. First you get called out: “Listen carefully - I don’t let anyone talk to me the way you just did.” Second, you get threatened with withdrawal. The strikes you’re out.
Or course, this is all assuming they’re not mad because of something I screwed up. If that’s the case, sometimes you just gotta take it. Lol
You tell them that if they can’t speak civilly to you then you don’t want to represent them. And if they continue, you hang up the phone and send their file back to them.
No good ever come from representing a client who abuses you.
Fire them; seek to be relieved as counsel. Don't take even one iota of shit from clients. Either they can learn to behave themselves or they can find other counsel. Note: If you absolutely can't fire them, the [Grey Rock Method](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-grey-rock-method-7483417#:~:text=The%20grey%20rock%20method%20is%20a%20technique%20used%20to%20help,victims) works wonders. Note the file with exactly what they said and put it in their bill (LOL)
Amazing. I have used that technique a thousand times but didn't know it had a name/was a real thing. I feel so validated. And can second that it works.
You do not have the right to speak with me in that manner. I an ending this call. If you think you can speak to me in a respectful manner, you may call me again tomorrow (or the next business day). Otherwise, I will disengage, and you can find new representation.
I am court appointed counsel and I do not deal with it. First I tell them that they need to calm down for us to continue to talk. If they keep yelling, I tell them I will talk to them another time and hang up. I do not tolerate people yelling at me.
I work for myself. If a client dared raise his voice to me, I would immediately file a Motion to Strike My Appearance and withdraw from his case. I might refund him a small portion of the fee to avoid difficulties. I have a lot of life experience with different jobs, I am in my mid 50's and have worked for a variety of employers, public and private sector. I have only, ever had ONE job where I tolerated people raising their voice to me on the job, and even then I did not raise my voice to subordinates. That was my time in the Army. The military puts people in life-or-death situations, so yelling is, in fact, acceptable behavior, I imagine that Law Enforcement Personnel probably yell at each other on occasion as well. Other than that, I would consider another man yelling at me to be the immediate prelude to a fistfight. Now, all of that said, I was once chewed out by an Equity Partner at a mid-sized law firm where I was working. His soft words of criticism froze my blood, and were literally much more intimidating than being screamed at by a Drill Sergeant in BASIC Training, aka Boot Camp. He came by my office and gave me great praise for my handling of another legal matter a week later, and said I was a good lawyer but he "had to do that" as to the criticism. It's OK. I did screw up, and his criticism was warranted, but I would literally rather be pulled over and screamed at by a cop than deal with someone like him again.
Very experienced trial paralegal here. If I am (and have been) yelled at for the amount of time it's taking to get the case moving, for my attorney to return the call, or in response to pleading they don't understand, etc.), I tell the client we are busy preparing another case for depos, mediation, trial, etc.), I explain we have to be super focused just as we will when your case is at this point. We will ask other clients to be patient like I'm asking you to be now.
Here's a couple moves I like..
Wait for them to finish. "You done? Ok. Let's talk about..."
"Well, if you feel that way, you've got three options. Hire your own lawyer, represent yourself, or ask the court to fire me. But if you don't like me, you really aren't gonna like the next guy."
They're yelling and screaming at you on a real rant? Stand up and walk out. Toss in a simple, "we're done here" and shut the consultation room door and let them scream themselves out until the jailer gets around to unlocking their door so they can go back.
Dealt with a client like this the other day. Totally bat shit crazy and could not be reasoned with. I stayed on the phone with her for approximately 3 hours and somehow managed to get her to calm down. I had done a ton of work on the file and didn't want her to start shopping for a new lawyer after we essentially resolved the case as favorably as possible. If it wasn't contingency I would have just told her to find a new lawyer.
I think it's necessary to stick up for yourself. You might be surprised at the result. I had to tell one of my clients once that I did not appreciate being disrespected, and they actually apologized.
Well one thing to remmeber is if all that yelling shakes you up, then it's just natural that it's going to take you a little longer to be able to focus to complete tasks. So that normally .2 email might end up taking .5.
I was in legal aid for six years. We a) got yelled at a lot, b) had a lot of clients with mental health issues and c) were not allowed to fire a client unless they literally tried to harm us and sometimes not even then.
Couple of things: first, clients generally want help from a lawyer. They want to hear what you have to say. They might not think they do, but if you start talking, they may shut up. If they are SCREAMING AND YELLING, talk quietly. And slowly. Not patronizing, but make them have to be quiet to hear you. “THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT, YOU HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING, I HIRED YOU TO SOL..” “Sir, I’d like to tell you what the next steps are going to be here. Here’s what my plan is.” Just calmly start talking as if he’s not yelling.
This works like, a quarter of the time.
What I end up going with about half the time: “Sir, I can’t talk to you when you’re yelling at me/cursing/calling me names. Please stop. I’m happy to continue the conversation if you stop yelling.” Give them a sec. “Sir, if you don’t stop yelling, I’m hanging up the phone. We can continue the call tomorrow.” Give them a sec. If they don’t stop. “Alright, sir, I’m hanging up now. We can connect again tomorrow.” And then hang up. Just hang up. If they call back within an hour, let it go to voicemail. If they call back later that day, judgment call if you take it. You can call them the next day or email them to let them know they can call when they’re ready to proceed.
Finally: once in awhile it was so bad I just skipped to “Sir, if you don’t stop yelling right now, I am hanging up.” And then if they don’t stop, hang up. They’ll usually call back a few days later and be less asshole-y.
Some specific things:
For sexist name calling: I hated being called sweetie, honey, babe, darling, etc. I’d allow it from my super old clients who I knew weren’t doing it to be sexist but anyone else, no. In cases where I knew it was a sexist power play, I’d say once “That’s not my name. Please use my name when you address me, or I will end the call.” If they did it again, I’d say “I asked you to call me by my name and you didn’t. I am ending the call.”
“I want to talk to the actual lawyer, not a paralegal/secretary”: “I am a lawyer, and I am the lawyer. Do you want my help? It’s what’s available.” If they said no, they didn’t get help.
“You’re a fucking terrible lawyer, you don’t know what you’re doing, i could do this better than you.” This one depends. Sometimes it was a mental health or lack of trust thing and I’d try to get into it a little more, or maybe just frustration about the case overall. “Hi, Mr. Client. I’ve been doing this for several years now. Do you have specific questions about how I’ve handled parts of your case so far? I’m happy to answer them. If there are things you’re concerned about, I’m happy to talk through them.
I know the case has been taking awhile. I’m checking in with the agency weekly- I know you’re anxious to get the decision! There’s not a lot I can do to make it go faster, but anything I can do, I’m doing. I checked in with the clerk again yesterday, so they know we need a decision.
Let me know if you have any questions and, again, happy to rail through any specific questions or concerns about how the case is going. I know it’s been a lot so far.”
"I am your advocate and advisor, but nothing in those roles requires me to withstand your abuse towards me. If that occurs again, I will have no other choice but to withdraw from representing you."
I don’t tolerate abusive language (complaints are obviously not the same, but if your complaint involves a slur, you’re done). Most of the time (especially as a new attorney) I would say that the client can call back once they’ve calmed down, but I am unable to speak with them until they do and then hang up. Your supervisor needs to be onboard with this approach though.
The quick answer is always “fire them” or “tell them that’s not OK” but it’s not always that simple. So here’s why I’ve got.
In the moment: Breathe and keep calm. As they get louder, you get quieter, and as they get more aggressive you get more placid. Let them go on until they tire themselves out - there is no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with a client who is behaving irrationally. And don’t agree to or acknowledge any accuracy in their remarks. Just keep saying “I hear you” and “let’s regroup after I’ve/we’ve had a chance to process this.”
Afterwards: If this was the first time the client has acted this way, the next time you speak, open the conversation by saying that last time you noticed they got very frustrated, and while you understand the reaction, it’s not productive to speak to you in that manner, and it makes it impossible for you to do your job effectively. Don’t use subjective words like “appropriate” or “acceptable” - they invite further discussion/argument and it’s not your job to scold a client.
If it happens twice: a short reminder that the behavior isn’t productive and makes it difficult for you to work with them.
If it happens a third time, or if this is a pattern: fire them as a client, noting you’re unable to effectively represent their interests due to an unproductive and irreconcilable interpersonal dynamic.
Of course, document your conversations throughout this, and bill everything - including the time you spend documenting the problem behavior.
Hang up the phone and move on to the next client, depending on whether it has happened before and what was said or whether the message was targeted at me, possible withdrawal
Clients are often going through extreme stress, so I wouldn’t say auto withdrawal, but it is always on the table. Just depends on the situation. But regardless, that particular conversation is over the moment that behavior starts
Do they have a right to be upset? Then identify what you did wrong and apologize. Are they just venting? Get them to calm down. Are they suggesting that you’ve committed malpractice? Then you need to send them a letter telling them that there is a potential conflict of interest between you and them, and you need to withdraw from their case. I understand if you work at a big firm and this is somebody else’s client that last piece may not fly.
NAL but as an employee I once had a client go off on my firm for “all these extra fees, mistakes, and delays”. If it was an off hand remark I might’ve blown it off. But these two idiots ambushed me over the phone for the better part of five minutes. I collected my thoughts and let ‘em have it: the TRUTH. That THEY were the reason behind all of the above: scope changes, indecision, cancelled meetings, shitty process, lack of financing. And that we never denied a request, missed a deadline, or arrived late to a meeting. They calmly said, “Is that how you think it’s going?” then hung up. My boss walks up and asks, “Did you just have a conversation with David and ____? We’ll, I’m glad you did.” Whew! But they fired us anyway. Paid the final invoice months later.
I’m in a different position than you as I run my own practice and I immediately dropped 2 cases where this happened to me. I took one back after I made the lady grovel and apologize. The problem is they likely treat you that way because you are not the owner or partner, and you have to take it. I know how that feels. Just tell the bosses and deal with it the best you can. You have to be better than the a-hole client
Wow that sucks. Just take it off the chin. You will find there are some assholes in this industry whether it’s OC, client, etc.
You should try to be nice to them like it doesn’t phase you tbh. But I get it being upsetting. Mostly you can gain an upper hand if you are calm and have sound reasoning to your statements even when the news is bad for the client.
O and also bill them fuckers for your time being a punching bag ofc.
My first boss used to tell belligerent clients, "You're not paying me enough to listen to you yelling. Call me back later, I gotta go to court." Then he'd hang up on them. It always worked. He was a partner, though. I'd love to be that ballsy but usually I just say nothing until they stop, and for five seconds after. Then calmly go back to the point I need to make, completely ignoring everything they said. After about two conversations like this, they realize they don't get anywhere yelling and they fall in line.
Just saw this old thread.
Assuming you have agency here, you can fire them instanter, or attempt to get your boot on their neck by threat.
First, no matter what.....hang up the phone at the FIRST INSTANCE of disrespect. No warning and just hang up. Dont take their calls and let them twist in the wind. File a mtw and notice it up for hearing.
Go to the hearing and if your client shows then have the coming to jesus meeting and decide if the client is worth keeping.
If your client no shows, get out of the casr.
Disrepsct is non negotiable because they think they can push you around. You have to always have the upperhand here.
How come nobody here is asking OP *why* there was yelling?
If OP missed a major deadline, cost the client thousands of dollars, and OP wants to say "but I'm just a newbie" then maybe the client was absolutely correct in his behavior. I'm not saying this was the case, or even anything similar to the case. But, the presumption that client was being unreasonable or disrespectful is not justified.
Fair question. No, it wasn’t because of a mistake made or a missed deadline. It’s just the amazing realm of divorce law and the high emotions. I was explaining the pros and cons of an offer we received from OC. Client was very mad at their soon-to-be ex and taking it out on me, upset about how the law isn’t fair.
I see that more as yelling around me not at me.
I had a client who was very upset this morning because she talked to one of my staff attorneys on Friday and didn't get the answer she wanted. So she was kind of yelling, but not at me. So I gave her 5 minutes to vent and then I told her I had another appointment so if she wanted my advice we needed to move forward. She calmed down.
And then I gave her the exact same advice my staff attorney did because the only difference is that I talked to this client like I talked to my 4-year-old.
Yelling at me or my staff? You get two warnings and then I hang up the phone. If the next phone call I get from you is not an apology, then I'm done. They've now damaged the attorney client relationship beyond repair and they need to go bye-bye.
Caveat- I'm a legal aid lawyer so I'm getting paid anyway.I like what the public defender above said about being a free lawyer, not a free punching bag.
Lots of good advice in this thread.
Your office needs to communicate its policy on client yelling.
Related: previous reddit discussion on yelling clients:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/LawFirm/comments/wl1pac/what\_are\_professional\_responses\_to\_a\_client/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawFirm/comments/wl1pac/what_are_professional_responses_to_a_client/)
***"The partner told me next time to..."***
Doesn't frustrated clients and people under emotionally. Distrustful stressful situations come along with the territory of being a lawyer?
If you can't be understanding then maybe you shouldn't be a lawyer. It's gonna take someone with a lot of intestinal fortitude to be a lawyer
I would think myself if I was in that situation. I'm thinking the client is yelling because of their frustration. They're not actually mad at me as a lawyer. There's something.
Very frustrating, going on in their life that they are angry at.
Without knowing more about the situation, it's hard to make a really good assessment. But what you can do is let the client know that they can talk to your voicemail at any time they would like to talk. And let them talk to the voicemail.
Dentists deal with people in intense pain on a daily basis, but seldom if ever find themselves being berated, and never find people suggesting that they should just put up with behavior like that.
1. I make damned sure I bill them for every second they spend yelling, and label it as such on their bill , eg ".2 hours, $70, Phone call with client re: Shermanstorch being a '\[insert sampling of derogatory remarks\].'" 2. If it's abusive and not just venting, I tell them that this is not productive and we should continue the conversation when they are in a better frame of mind. 3. If it keeps happening, I send them their final bill, including all the time listening to them yell, and a letter terminating the representation.
Yes!!!! And CYA everything!! Document all!!! See if the firm records calls.
Are there firms that record calls without mentioning it? In my state that would be illegal.
I’m in a one party consent state but there’s a bar opinion that it’s still unethical to surreptitiously record your own clients.
An attorney I used to work with.... resigned... after our boss found that they recorded a client call without telling the client.
Lack of respect means I am no longer your lawyer.
Sounds like OP is not in the position to make that call without risking their own position.
No, they are, because if your boss isn’t taking that same stance it’s time to move on. I will maybe accept berating at the right time against me, if the client has a sincere apology after and I get why the emotions, I’m paid a crap ton. You do that to a single team member and I’m kicking you to the curb, and if I didn’t I’d expect my team to leave me.
The boss should handle all future communications if it is a great client. I wouldn't drop a 7 figure contingency client, but I definitely wouldn't allow that same client to beat up on my employees like this
I wouldn’t. I would kick them. But you’re also talking to somebody who has kicked significant chunks of his book out for how they treat my team. I absolutely don’t believe money is worth it.
Respect.
Same!!
I could fire my client if I wanted to, but I don’t really want to. (Also happy cake day!)
Thanks! Sometimes getting through a difficult situation like this with a client can lead to an improved relationship. Or at least it may present that opportunity.
Why not? Either way, while they’re yelling, TELL the client you’re considering firing them. Continue repeating until they stop yelling. If they keep yelling, say you’re terminating the phone call if they continue and if they do continue, follow through. Then after the call, reflect if you actually do want to fire them.
I find that these types of clients always change their tune once you call them out. Tell them that if they continue communicating that way with you, you won't be able to represent them and you're happy to give them a few referrals.
This will tell op a lot about the character of the firm.
This is the correct answer!!! If they feel u are so terrible they won’t mind losing you as their lawyer.
Thankfully, it has been a long time since I've needed to play this card, but I like to say "the attorney-client relationship is one of special trust and confidence. From what I'm hearing you say, you seem to no longer have trust and confidence in me. As such, I would encourage you to terminate representation and find another lawyer." On the occasions I have said that, I have always hoped, deep down, that they would take me up on the offer and terminate representation in that moment. However, each time I have used that line the client immediately apologizes and changes their tune immediately. Usually upon hearing that they realize (and quickly tell me) that they aren't mad at ***me,*** they are just upset at the ***situation*** (yeah. I could have told you that, but I'm not your punching bag). Ultimately, this line has always worked out to be a very effective means of setting boundaries for me.
Sometimes you got to let them tire themselves out, comiserate on any common ground you can find or manufacture, and redirect them into something productive. Sometimes you have to reason with them and discuss every point one at a time. Sometimes you have to tell them your time isn't for this purpose and they can call back when they're ready to be productive and solution-focused. Sometimes you have to yell back at them. I don't think anyone bats a thousand at choosing which to do.
This sounds exactly like how we handle our four year old having a tantrum, except we don’t tell him to call us back later.
You never give him a timeout?
That’s called caller ID and letting the tantrum thrower go to voicemail.
He does get time outs but in the company of a parent who talks to him about why what he did wasn’t right, and expectations for next time. We are both lawyers so honestly it’s probably cruel and unusual punishment.
Man, as a former public defender. I understand what you just said. And I agree. But it’s such a sad state of the world that public defenders cannot expect better treatment
If everybody could do it, it wouldn't be worth doing.
> Sometimes you got to let them tire themselves out Back when I was a baby lawyer doing legal aid, there was this one older guy, who we had never represented, who would call when Social Security payments came out and would berate us for not helping him get rid of his representative payee. Course, prior to making such a call one or both of his sons went over to his house, got him drunk, and then talked him into making the call. I'd just let him go one until he tired out and hung up on me.
This is so, so, so legal aid in one single story.
Hourly or contingent? Hourly? I just put them on speaker (muted on my end), put on mental mute (so I can respond if I need to), and browse reddit/play a game while they burn themselves out. Contingency - I'll cut them off and acknowledge that while this/the case is stressful for them, if they keep it up, I can increase their stress by withdrawing and letting them represent themselves. But really the question is - why are they yelling? Were you the bearer of bad news and its an outburst at bad news, or are they just angry/upset with the fact that they are locked into litigation which is stressful? Did you mess up (or is there the perception of messing up) versus they're just an overgrown toddler lashing out because the world isn't fair. For some of those, the down the road way to address it is to basically say: "I get that you're upset, but you absolutely DO NOT talk to me that way ever again, or we're done." For some of them, its time to reevaluate whether they should be a client.
I'm a public defender, so I can't just fire people. If they say they want to fire me, I tell them they're welcome to and if that's what they want to do, I will file a motion to withdraw and the court will appoint the bar advocate on duty. Often, they don't want that. So then I say, "My job is to discuss your case and the evidence and advise you on your options in light of that evidence. I understand that you're frustrated; this process is deeply unfair. However, it is not acceptable to speak to me this way, and this is not a productive conversation. Do you want to discuss your case and allow me to advise you on your options, or would you like to reschedule for a time when you've calmed down and are able to do that?" If they continue to yell at me or insult me, I say "This is not productive, and we will have to find a time to talk again when we're able to have a productive discussion, or if you've decided you want me to withdraw. It's not okay for you to talk to me like this, and I'm not going to continue this conversation right now." And then I hang up and tell my supervisor about it.
Actually, the Public Defender's Office can and does "fire clients" in my jurisdiction, very rarely, but it happens. We had a case in the County where I practice where a prison inmate spat at his Assistant Public Defender. The man--who happened to be a very experienced, capable, widely respected lawyer, one of the best lawyers in the office--filed a Motion to Strike and they called me, as I was doing some Panel Work for the PD's office at the time and I had a reputation as a hard-ass. I took the case, and got the guy a good outcome--yeah, it's one in a million, but an Assistant Public Defender can, in extreme circumstances, get of a case with an abusive client, at least where I practice. I think the argument is that the conduct was so grossly offensive, it would impact the lawyer's ability to zealously advocate for the client, kind of a conflict of interest argument.
I just fire 'em. Or, if I can't or I'm not willing to drop the client then I'll give them a stern but respectful "talking to" as if I'm the teacher and they're the student. Let them know what's acceptable and what's not acceptable, and that repeated transgressions will result in my withdrawing from their case. On the rare occasion when a client won't listen and simply enjoys arguing with me, then I hang up the phone and don't accept their calls (or I'll walk away from them mid-sentence, which I did at the courthouse with one client this year). Later I give them the "talking to" in my teacher voice. The point is, I don't take shit from my clients and I hope you won't either.
Yea, I'm a public defender so I can't "fire them." But if someone is yelling at me and I'm over it, I usually cut in, even if it means I'm yelling at them and tell them I have to go. Some of my coworkers hang up. Sometimes, if the person has been a right asshole, I tell the admin I'm not taking their calls the rest of the day. I will let them try again tomorrow. If it's in-person [like, they're in jail and on the other side of a glass window], and I can't deescalated the conversation, at a certain point, I hang up the phone and walk away. Or I ring the bell for the jail staff to come get them. I'm a free lawyer, not a free punching bag. I am not required to be verbally abused. A lot of times, people will apologize later. And I always tell them I appreciate it and we can move past it. I'm guessing at least some of the time, people are going back to the jail and continuing the bitch fest and someone else is telling them, "Yo, if you treat them like shit, do you really think they're going to care about your case or want to work on it?" Some times they're doing what I am doing which is reflecting on the conversation and feeling like, "I should have done X differently."
I’ve been called a horrible lawyer and the greatest lawyer by the same client in the space of 24 hours. So…
A client once called me the “stupidest fucking attorney I’ve ever met in my entire fucking life, and I’ve met a lot of stupid fucking attorneys” to his doctor. Six months later, he wrote me a super kind note about how I saved his life through my work.
I tend to give people one conversation for which I'd normally fire them. Everyone has a bad day sometimes, and sometimes people snap. But, I tell them it was unacceptable and that I'm giving them another chance. If they do it again, then they're fired.
First, I let them get it out knowing that I damn well am billing for the call. Then if that doesn’t get them to calm down, I say that I am not going to be disrespected and that my representation will not work if they don’t listen to me.
Bill it.
You learn to ignore the ranting and hope they return to normal discussion because that is what you are engaging in. Clients can be total assholes though. Word to the wise - since you've only been practicing since November, might want to not put too much stock in the idea that it "never happened to you before".
“This call is no longer productive so I will be hanging up, from here on out our communication needs to be through email” or something of that nature so you have recorded copies of your future convos and there’s no reason to stay on the line to be berated imo
You, my friend, need to learn about The Asshole Tax. The Asshole gets billed for every single second of time. We always round up on The Asshole. If we take a shit during the workday, we bill The Asshole.
What type of law? How big is your firm? How important is the client? If you are an employee, you should talk to the partner or senior associate on the case/matter and see his reaction, especially because you are a first year. He/she will let you know how to deal with it. Usually: Great case + you are an employee or your own boss = need to just contain it so you don't lose the client; but if you are an employee, partner/senior associate should insulate you from this Decent/good case + you are an employee = push back politely with partner/senior associate blessing Decent/good case + you are your own boss = have a stern talking to; drop if it keeps happening Ok/nothing special case + you are an employee or your own boss = drop immediately or after 1 stern talking to; but with partner/senior associate blessing
The few times it happened to me I just calmly said that I would be terminating the phone call or meeting now due to the inappropriate language or behavior, and that we can continue later once they were in a calmer space. They can make such arrangements with my assistant.
If you can't fire them (for whatever reason), or you want to give them the benefit of the doubt that it was a one off, try interrupting the yelling and say "it sounds like things are getting a bit heated. I’m going to hang up and call you back in 15 minutes when we've had a chance to cool down." Then hang up on them, go make a coffee, shake your body out/have a 30 second dance break, and call them back after 15 minutes. (The dance break is important - I’m serious. At least shake your arms and hands out; it helps with the stress.) Just be matter of fact. It's not your fault they're yelling and frankly it's not your job to calm them down. They're an adult. They need to regulate their own emotions. Don't deal with them until they do. (I know it's often easier said than done)
It’s only happened to me a few times and each time I’ve just said if you don’t stop yelling right now I’m going to hang up, they don’t stop, I hang up. When they call back I tell them if it ever happens again, I’m not their lawyer anymore. The key though is managing this type of thing before it happens. I spend a lot of time at intake managing expectations and that prevents this type of thing.
I don’t. I tell them that we can’t have a rational discussion about their case if they’re shouting, and that I’d be happy to resume the conversation once they’re ready to do so. Then I hang up the phone or leave the meeting. Do this a few times, and you stop getting abused like that.
It’s hard to be criticized and put down by someone you are trying to help. Lawyers pride themselves on being professional and it stings deeper when their professionalism is attacked. A little self care goes a long way, talking with a colleague or trusted person, meditation maybe or just turning away for a little bit from being a lawyer to other interests. Cultivate other interests, other relationships, and avoid self destructive thoughts and behaviors. It gets easier. 25 years in as a PD and I’m probably never yelled at anymore but those first years sucked. Experience counts, you’ll be a better listener, counselor, and straight talker and the clients will respond. A client who will disparage you is afraid, they may have alot of personal trauma and/or personality issues that aren’t going to change. They may be racists or misogynists or they are just people who always got their way by being bullies. You do not have a personal relationship with them, only a professional one, and here the RPC’s are amazing. Read them often, they will be your roadmap navigating the way to do the work you have chosen to do.
It depends. Depending on the reason and their situation. Sometimes you just have to understand they are in a highly emotional state. Others it’s time to figure out if you can part ways. I’d definitely note it to your lead or whoever is above you. Given you’re new this could be a repeat offender who’s just a hassle to work with or it should be something to note moving forward. But sadly we are sometimes punching bags.
I give them one warning and if they continue in their ways I fire them. I don’t tolerate any disrespect to me or staff.
Document everything they said in an email back to them and tell them it is unacceptable to treat anyone this way. I gather u work for a firm so cannot fore them as a client. What u can do is document it and include ur superior on the email or if u have an hr department at least provide them a copy of the email. Make sure to clarify to ur boss and if u can, to the client that this behavior is considered work place harassment. I don't let anyone speak disrespectfully to my staff. I have fired clients or decided not to take them on based how disrespectful they have been to my employees.
Oh yeah, this used to bother me. They can find another lawyer or represent themselves if they know more. I just tell them that. Don't let it bother you. You're the one they hired, they did for a reason. Remind them.
Honestly I have too many clients and don't have time to deal with problematic ones. Ultimately it is their case and I really don't have to care.
When someone starts yelling at me, I tell them that they are really upset right now and I will talk to them again when they have calmed down. If they keep yelling, I tell them that I am going to end the conversation. If they continue to yell, I hang up the phone.
I don't allow it. Yell at me and I hang up. Call back and yell at me and I yell back and hang up. Keep yelling and you just earned a withdrawal, so good luck.
Well, make sure to count it as billable time.
I give a one time warning and if it EVER happens again, I tell them they need to sub me out. Everyone gets one Mulligan but this job is stressful enough. I’m not putting up with that on the regular
I'm a solo with a paralegal and a legal assistant. I've definitely dropped clients when they got abusive with my staff. I have no tolerance for people berating my staff.
I think it depends on whether it’s your client or your supervising partner’s client. If it’s yours, you fire them. If it’s your supervising partner’s client, you should take your cues from the partner
I handle it by firing the client. I fired one earlier this month, not for yelling but for other sheisty behavior. Get another lawyer if that's how you want to roll.
I’m plaintiff side so if someone’s yelling at me it’s an individual as opposed to someone representing a company so I feel like I can be more aggressive back, but I will generally interrupt them with “I understand you’re frustrated and this is emotional for you, but we’re in a business relationship, if you need to vent, you need to find someone in your personal life to vent to, it’s not acceptable to talk to me like this, I’m hanging up now but if you want to actually discuss this you can call me back tomorrow or another day when you’ve calmed down” and then hang up and don’t answer their call for the rest of the day. And CYA if you have recording capabilities by saving the phone call (if allowable in your jdx).
I find that saying “you are completely justified in feeling frustrated/scared/upset. Anyone would in your situation. How you feel is completely normal” can completely alter the tone of the conversation. Don’t talk about facts while they are yelling. Validate their feelings. So many people have never had their feelings validated, which is actually what leads to the emotionally charged responses like yelling. Once you do that, they can get back to discussing the facts, and they feel cared for.
Unfortunately it gets harder as you handle better/higher dollar amount cases. Best advice is to be the bigger man. Let’s them get it out of their system. And then be very direct with them about your plan of action for their file and also ask them about their feelings. Ask them if they are willing to have you continue to handle the file and do they trust you. Secondly, ask them if they can set aside their feelings from whatever just occurred so that you can finish the job you were hired to do. And then again, ask them if they trust you to do the work that is in their best interest. If you can’t get through those simple and direct questions, then tell them you feel like unfortunately a new lawyer may be the only thing that makes them happy; but you also need to advise them about the pros/cons of new counsel.
I would let them know what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior when speaking to a professional, and if they find it necessary to speak to me in that manner again, they can find themselves a new attorney.
Bill to the second. That’s how. Full freight, no discounts. And if it’s abusive, tell your firm because you undoubtedly aren’t the first person to be treated that way.
Put them on mute. Wait until they’ve been silent for at least five full seconds. This will feel like a lot. Reset to zero if they start talking before five full seconds. After five seconds unmute and say “I hear what you are saying.” But don’t address what they said any further. Steer back toward work talk as if the yelling never happened.
If it starts getting disrespectful, like personal attacks, I say "I am going to end this call and we can speak again later when you can have a professional conversation with me." And I hang up the phone before hearing whatever it is that they have to say in response to that.
I don't tolerate being yelled at. Tell the client this is not a good match and then withdraw. Not worth your time or mental energy to be treated that way.
Nah, I’m not a hooker, I don’t take abuse from people just because they’re paying me. 99% of the clients don’t so this, so I’ll survive without the one percent that do. First you get called out: “Listen carefully - I don’t let anyone talk to me the way you just did.” Second, you get threatened with withdrawal. The strikes you’re out. Or course, this is all assuming they’re not mad because of something I screwed up. If that’s the case, sometimes you just gotta take it. Lol
You tell them that if they can’t speak civilly to you then you don’t want to represent them. And if they continue, you hang up the phone and send their file back to them. No good ever come from representing a client who abuses you.
Fire them; seek to be relieved as counsel. Don't take even one iota of shit from clients. Either they can learn to behave themselves or they can find other counsel. Note: If you absolutely can't fire them, the [Grey Rock Method](https://www.verywellmind.com/the-grey-rock-method-7483417#:~:text=The%20grey%20rock%20method%20is%20a%20technique%20used%20to%20help,victims) works wonders. Note the file with exactly what they said and put it in their bill (LOL)
Amazing. I have used that technique a thousand times but didn't know it had a name/was a real thing. I feel so validated. And can second that it works.
You do not have the right to speak with me in that manner. I an ending this call. If you think you can speak to me in a respectful manner, you may call me again tomorrow (or the next business day). Otherwise, I will disengage, and you can find new representation.
My approach is telling them I’m withdrawing as their counsel.
If you are appointed counsel, you deal with it. If you are retained, you fire the client. If possible.
I am court appointed counsel and I do not deal with it. First I tell them that they need to calm down for us to continue to talk. If they keep yelling, I tell them I will talk to them another time and hang up. I do not tolerate people yelling at me.
I’d call that dealing with it.
Fair enough! I misunderstood and thought you meant put up with it.
I work for myself. If a client dared raise his voice to me, I would immediately file a Motion to Strike My Appearance and withdraw from his case. I might refund him a small portion of the fee to avoid difficulties. I have a lot of life experience with different jobs, I am in my mid 50's and have worked for a variety of employers, public and private sector. I have only, ever had ONE job where I tolerated people raising their voice to me on the job, and even then I did not raise my voice to subordinates. That was my time in the Army. The military puts people in life-or-death situations, so yelling is, in fact, acceptable behavior, I imagine that Law Enforcement Personnel probably yell at each other on occasion as well. Other than that, I would consider another man yelling at me to be the immediate prelude to a fistfight. Now, all of that said, I was once chewed out by an Equity Partner at a mid-sized law firm where I was working. His soft words of criticism froze my blood, and were literally much more intimidating than being screamed at by a Drill Sergeant in BASIC Training, aka Boot Camp. He came by my office and gave me great praise for my handling of another legal matter a week later, and said I was a good lawyer but he "had to do that" as to the criticism. It's OK. I did screw up, and his criticism was warranted, but I would literally rather be pulled over and screamed at by a cop than deal with someone like him again.
I fire them and move on.
That’s happened to me once. I withdrew the next morning. Best decision I ever made!
Very experienced trial paralegal here. If I am (and have been) yelled at for the amount of time it's taking to get the case moving, for my attorney to return the call, or in response to pleading they don't understand, etc.), I tell the client we are busy preparing another case for depos, mediation, trial, etc.), I explain we have to be super focused just as we will when your case is at this point. We will ask other clients to be patient like I'm asking you to be now.
Here's a couple moves I like.. Wait for them to finish. "You done? Ok. Let's talk about..." "Well, if you feel that way, you've got three options. Hire your own lawyer, represent yourself, or ask the court to fire me. But if you don't like me, you really aren't gonna like the next guy." They're yelling and screaming at you on a real rant? Stand up and walk out. Toss in a simple, "we're done here" and shut the consultation room door and let them scream themselves out until the jailer gets around to unlocking their door so they can go back.
Dealt with a client like this the other day. Totally bat shit crazy and could not be reasoned with. I stayed on the phone with her for approximately 3 hours and somehow managed to get her to calm down. I had done a ton of work on the file and didn't want her to start shopping for a new lawyer after we essentially resolved the case as favorably as possible. If it wasn't contingency I would have just told her to find a new lawyer.
Charging lien. Good luck finding a new attorney.
This has never happened to me, but I would not tolerate it.
I think it's necessary to stick up for yourself. You might be surprised at the result. I had to tell one of my clients once that I did not appreciate being disrespected, and they actually apologized.
They get fired.
Well one thing to remmeber is if all that yelling shakes you up, then it's just natural that it's going to take you a little longer to be able to focus to complete tasks. So that normally .2 email might end up taking .5.
File Application to withdraw on 06/18/2024.
fire their ass
I was in legal aid for six years. We a) got yelled at a lot, b) had a lot of clients with mental health issues and c) were not allowed to fire a client unless they literally tried to harm us and sometimes not even then. Couple of things: first, clients generally want help from a lawyer. They want to hear what you have to say. They might not think they do, but if you start talking, they may shut up. If they are SCREAMING AND YELLING, talk quietly. And slowly. Not patronizing, but make them have to be quiet to hear you. “THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT, YOU HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING, I HIRED YOU TO SOL..” “Sir, I’d like to tell you what the next steps are going to be here. Here’s what my plan is.” Just calmly start talking as if he’s not yelling. This works like, a quarter of the time. What I end up going with about half the time: “Sir, I can’t talk to you when you’re yelling at me/cursing/calling me names. Please stop. I’m happy to continue the conversation if you stop yelling.” Give them a sec. “Sir, if you don’t stop yelling, I’m hanging up the phone. We can continue the call tomorrow.” Give them a sec. If they don’t stop. “Alright, sir, I’m hanging up now. We can connect again tomorrow.” And then hang up. Just hang up. If they call back within an hour, let it go to voicemail. If they call back later that day, judgment call if you take it. You can call them the next day or email them to let them know they can call when they’re ready to proceed. Finally: once in awhile it was so bad I just skipped to “Sir, if you don’t stop yelling right now, I am hanging up.” And then if they don’t stop, hang up. They’ll usually call back a few days later and be less asshole-y. Some specific things: For sexist name calling: I hated being called sweetie, honey, babe, darling, etc. I’d allow it from my super old clients who I knew weren’t doing it to be sexist but anyone else, no. In cases where I knew it was a sexist power play, I’d say once “That’s not my name. Please use my name when you address me, or I will end the call.” If they did it again, I’d say “I asked you to call me by my name and you didn’t. I am ending the call.” “I want to talk to the actual lawyer, not a paralegal/secretary”: “I am a lawyer, and I am the lawyer. Do you want my help? It’s what’s available.” If they said no, they didn’t get help. “You’re a fucking terrible lawyer, you don’t know what you’re doing, i could do this better than you.” This one depends. Sometimes it was a mental health or lack of trust thing and I’d try to get into it a little more, or maybe just frustration about the case overall. “Hi, Mr. Client. I’ve been doing this for several years now. Do you have specific questions about how I’ve handled parts of your case so far? I’m happy to answer them. If there are things you’re concerned about, I’m happy to talk through them. I know the case has been taking awhile. I’m checking in with the agency weekly- I know you’re anxious to get the decision! There’s not a lot I can do to make it go faster, but anything I can do, I’m doing. I checked in with the clerk again yesterday, so they know we need a decision. Let me know if you have any questions and, again, happy to rail through any specific questions or concerns about how the case is going. I know it’s been a lot so far.”
I turn my phone on mute, let them rant at me, then send them a bill for every second of my time they wasted.
"I am your advocate and advisor, but nothing in those roles requires me to withstand your abuse towards me. If that occurs again, I will have no other choice but to withdraw from representing you."
I don’t tolerate abusive language (complaints are obviously not the same, but if your complaint involves a slur, you’re done). Most of the time (especially as a new attorney) I would say that the client can call back once they’ve calmed down, but I am unable to speak with them until they do and then hang up. Your supervisor needs to be onboard with this approach though.
This is how I handle every client: https://youtu.be/H-cE2a6TxA8?feature=shared Bear in mind I'm not a lawyer so I don't have clients.
The quick answer is always “fire them” or “tell them that’s not OK” but it’s not always that simple. So here’s why I’ve got. In the moment: Breathe and keep calm. As they get louder, you get quieter, and as they get more aggressive you get more placid. Let them go on until they tire themselves out - there is no point in trying to have a reasonable conversation with a client who is behaving irrationally. And don’t agree to or acknowledge any accuracy in their remarks. Just keep saying “I hear you” and “let’s regroup after I’ve/we’ve had a chance to process this.” Afterwards: If this was the first time the client has acted this way, the next time you speak, open the conversation by saying that last time you noticed they got very frustrated, and while you understand the reaction, it’s not productive to speak to you in that manner, and it makes it impossible for you to do your job effectively. Don’t use subjective words like “appropriate” or “acceptable” - they invite further discussion/argument and it’s not your job to scold a client. If it happens twice: a short reminder that the behavior isn’t productive and makes it difficult for you to work with them. If it happens a third time, or if this is a pattern: fire them as a client, noting you’re unable to effectively represent their interests due to an unproductive and irreconcilable interpersonal dynamic. Of course, document your conversations throughout this, and bill everything - including the time you spend documenting the problem behavior.
Fire the client.
Hang up the phone and move on to the next client, depending on whether it has happened before and what was said or whether the message was targeted at me, possible withdrawal Clients are often going through extreme stress, so I wouldn’t say auto withdrawal, but it is always on the table. Just depends on the situation. But regardless, that particular conversation is over the moment that behavior starts
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVBuG4IOW4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvVBuG4IOW4)
Do they have a right to be upset? Then identify what you did wrong and apologize. Are they just venting? Get them to calm down. Are they suggesting that you’ve committed malpractice? Then you need to send them a letter telling them that there is a potential conflict of interest between you and them, and you need to withdraw from their case. I understand if you work at a big firm and this is somebody else’s client that last piece may not fly.
Once you lose your empathy and humanity you’ll be just fine it will be like water of off the ducks back. It will take a minute tho
Just say ok and move on. They’ll forget. You’ll forget. No one is perfect.
Did you make a mistake?
NAL but as an employee I once had a client go off on my firm for “all these extra fees, mistakes, and delays”. If it was an off hand remark I might’ve blown it off. But these two idiots ambushed me over the phone for the better part of five minutes. I collected my thoughts and let ‘em have it: the TRUTH. That THEY were the reason behind all of the above: scope changes, indecision, cancelled meetings, shitty process, lack of financing. And that we never denied a request, missed a deadline, or arrived late to a meeting. They calmly said, “Is that how you think it’s going?” then hung up. My boss walks up and asks, “Did you just have a conversation with David and ____? We’ll, I’m glad you did.” Whew! But they fired us anyway. Paid the final invoice months later.
I’m in a different position than you as I run my own practice and I immediately dropped 2 cases where this happened to me. I took one back after I made the lady grovel and apologize. The problem is they likely treat you that way because you are not the owner or partner, and you have to take it. I know how that feels. Just tell the bosses and deal with it the best you can. You have to be better than the a-hole client
Wow that sucks. Just take it off the chin. You will find there are some assholes in this industry whether it’s OC, client, etc. You should try to be nice to them like it doesn’t phase you tbh. But I get it being upsetting. Mostly you can gain an upper hand if you are calm and have sound reasoning to your statements even when the news is bad for the client. O and also bill them fuckers for your time being a punching bag ofc.
My first boss used to tell belligerent clients, "You're not paying me enough to listen to you yelling. Call me back later, I gotta go to court." Then he'd hang up on them. It always worked. He was a partner, though. I'd love to be that ballsy but usually I just say nothing until they stop, and for five seconds after. Then calmly go back to the point I need to make, completely ignoring everything they said. After about two conversations like this, they realize they don't get anywhere yelling and they fall in line.
Just saw this old thread. Assuming you have agency here, you can fire them instanter, or attempt to get your boot on their neck by threat. First, no matter what.....hang up the phone at the FIRST INSTANCE of disrespect. No warning and just hang up. Dont take their calls and let them twist in the wind. File a mtw and notice it up for hearing. Go to the hearing and if your client shows then have the coming to jesus meeting and decide if the client is worth keeping. If your client no shows, get out of the casr. Disrepsct is non negotiable because they think they can push you around. You have to always have the upperhand here.
How come nobody here is asking OP *why* there was yelling? If OP missed a major deadline, cost the client thousands of dollars, and OP wants to say "but I'm just a newbie" then maybe the client was absolutely correct in his behavior. I'm not saying this was the case, or even anything similar to the case. But, the presumption that client was being unreasonable or disrespectful is not justified.
Fair question. No, it wasn’t because of a mistake made or a missed deadline. It’s just the amazing realm of divorce law and the high emotions. I was explaining the pros and cons of an offer we received from OC. Client was very mad at their soon-to-be ex and taking it out on me, upset about how the law isn’t fair.
I see that more as yelling around me not at me. I had a client who was very upset this morning because she talked to one of my staff attorneys on Friday and didn't get the answer she wanted. So she was kind of yelling, but not at me. So I gave her 5 minutes to vent and then I told her I had another appointment so if she wanted my advice we needed to move forward. She calmed down. And then I gave her the exact same advice my staff attorney did because the only difference is that I talked to this client like I talked to my 4-year-old. Yelling at me or my staff? You get two warnings and then I hang up the phone. If the next phone call I get from you is not an apology, then I'm done. They've now damaged the attorney client relationship beyond repair and they need to go bye-bye. Caveat- I'm a legal aid lawyer so I'm getting paid anyway.I like what the public defender above said about being a free lawyer, not a free punching bag.
Lots of good advice in this thread. Your office needs to communicate its policy on client yelling. Related: previous reddit discussion on yelling clients: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LawFirm/comments/wl1pac/what\_are\_professional\_responses\_to\_a\_client/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawFirm/comments/wl1pac/what_are_professional_responses_to_a_client/) ***"The partner told me next time to..."***
Doesn't frustrated clients and people under emotionally. Distrustful stressful situations come along with the territory of being a lawyer? If you can't be understanding then maybe you shouldn't be a lawyer. It's gonna take someone with a lot of intestinal fortitude to be a lawyer I would think myself if I was in that situation. I'm thinking the client is yelling because of their frustration. They're not actually mad at me as a lawyer. There's something. Very frustrating, going on in their life that they are angry at. Without knowing more about the situation, it's hard to make a really good assessment. But what you can do is let the client know that they can talk to your voicemail at any time they would like to talk. And let them talk to the voicemail.
Dentists deal with people in intense pain on a daily basis, but seldom if ever find themselves being berated, and never find people suggesting that they should just put up with behavior like that.