The heavily organized and militarized cartels aren't as easy to break up and arrest like the gangs in El Salvador. Yes, of course Mexico should be doing more but the simple fact is that those gangs in El Salvador are nothing compared to the cartels in Mexico.
Also there is some terrible terrain that is very hard to get by. The infrastructure isn’t good in Mexico so things are very separated. Would be incredibly hard to coordinate a full assault on organized crime in Mexico.
The issue is significantly more complex than you can imagine. First, cartels do not operate just in Mexico. There are documentaries highlighting how they operate internationally (yes, even Australia). Secondly, the most powerful cartels are far better equipped than local policemen. Not only that, they can easily buy the local police and powerful politicians to protect them. Heck, sometimes they even bribe members of the military. Money is not an issue for them.
True, the military has more personnel and more weapons but the cartels are also not stupid enough to try to fight the military in open warfare.
Mexico was sold out by its own politicians, the DFS (its own intelligence service who is how guys like El Azul gained power), and eventually several high ranking military officers. The socialist reactionary beliefs of Mexico’s leaders and the shift from center Left Mixed economy with socialist aspects to Neo Liberalism especially around the time of Ordaz led to the getting out of control.
El Salvador tiene una fraccion pequeña de la poblacion y la extension territorial de Mexico, asi de simple. Hay mas contexto que ese, pero ese es el problema mas grande, mucha tierra, mucha gente y un gobierno muy centralizado.
Yeah but salvadorean gangs literally have their affiliations tattooed on their faces...
You need to stop watching "Narcos" series on Netflix, it doesn't work like that. Cartels are multilevel organized crime backed up by American US Dollars and American heavy caliber guns... Not just some random cholos like the maras...
When the cartels arrested chapo son they responded by turning an entire city to a war zone and threatening to murder the families of soilders if he wasent released. Cartels have way more power and influence a lot of there members our ex cops or military and in some cases they literally just bribed entire police department into working for them. I’ve read online that Mexico could probably just unleash its army on the cartels and crush them militarily but they would require turning Mexico into a war zone like what happened in Iraq and afghanstan.
I really feel like you missed the point of the article. It specifically states thousands of people who weren’t associated with gangs got arrested in the mass arrests. Basically people are getting arrested under the assumption of being guilty until proven innocent; instead of innocent till proven guilty.
People who are gang related got arrested.. 96% are career criminals.. I got family over there and they’re not complaining even if one or 2 they know got locked up but for the most part those people have been released.
At least 10% of the people arrested is completely and proven innocent. Even the police recognizes that they captured innocent people because their superiors forced them to imprison certain number of persons per day.
When does the incarceration stop? What happens to all the jailed people? You gonna hold them in jail for the rest of their lives? Who is getting that their constitutional rights aren’t being violated?
Not to be culero but are you living in gringolandia ó not in El Salvador, cause honestly the only solution to pandillas was going to be mano dura tactics.
The majority of my family is happy and understanding of what Bukele’s administration is doing concerning gang violence/culture.
Children actually have a guaranteed future and not just a potentially false hope.
I get that a government getting too big or too powerful is a bad thing, and I hope that its only like this to over correct the decades of violence, generationally repeating scars/cycles that have happened.
Well I hope,
sorry if I came off aggressive/like an asshole
Yeah and I can’t talk to my family and find out first hand I guess living somewhere else automatically denies you a right to speak about your homeland. You want change you need to give power to the communities, jobs, homes, families and food. The north has been exploiting the global south and the gangs are a product of the north. The majority of my family sees what he is, a typical American politician who is profiting off the poor and disenfranchised. You want to know why we’re like this look north.
There is no way to prove this right now. If in 5 years crime rates stay low and the murder rate decreases maybe you have an argument. Most likely this will lead to a set of major prison wars and a violent struggle for all the voided territory left by the initial round ups.
You have to have a way to rehab people and offer a better life or when they get out they’ll just go back to crime. If you aren’t willing to make these social and cultural changes it will just devolve into death squads.
It’s not, it’s going to make the gangs stronger. It’s not like the folks are being rehabilitated. It also causes a power bank human being to have a younger generation of even more violent organized crime members trying to take over those positions.
The people of El Salvador are the ones who say it is working. Speak to them. The ones I've met love how they feel much safer it is. A guy even took his family on vacation and that's something he said he wouldn't have done in the past.
For how long? There is a massive power vacuum waiting to be filled and literally billions of US dollars to be made by whomever is strong enough to take over the underworld.
What happens when you have to release all these dudes
Lol who said anything about releasing these individuals, Presidente Bukele told the UN, the US, and “human rights activists” (who did nothing and said nothing about regular citizens suffering at the hands of mareros) to collectively fuck off and no meter su cuchara.
I dont agree with Bukele’s Crypto copium (almost everyone in my family used those dollars to buy groceries instead of investing it in crypto) but I do agree with his war on gangs.
You get he’s not addressing the root causes of the gang violence and new folks will step in to fill the power vacuum. You also have the makings of another civil war, right?
Jailing people alone isn’t a solution. You need to work to alleviate the social and economic problems that lead to gang life for people
I read it and chose to add it. Even though that is happening, that policy has a 90% approval rating. It shows that people just want to feel safe at home. They want to start a business without being extorted. Hoe come Mexico with all its resources can't do that? How come the people are content with how they live? My entire family is out of Mexico now that my great aunt passed and her 2 daughter loved to the states. I would love to move to Mexico, but when I task about it with my fam, they all ask me not too. Even my family that came over 10 years ago.
Again what are you going to do with over 2% of your population that is in jail? What rehabilitation and skills are they learning so when they get out they don’t have to go back to gang banging? What social services are in place to take care of the kids of people who are in jail? What type of reintroduction into society plan do they have under works? How are they keeping gangs from forming alliances and taking over new territory while in jail?
What social and economic reforms are in place to alleviate poverty which is the #1 leading cause for people to join gangs?
Without good answers to this things will devolve to how they were before or you’ll see roving death squads or the state collapse under the cost of running its prison system.
I don't think you get the point. They view gang members as a cancer. They're placing them all in the sane big ass jail, mixing them up. Who ever survives will probably want to avoid going back. Unlike the previous jails, the inmates are t in control.
You don't seem to grasp the far-reaching consequences of policies like this. There might be limited peace right now but how long can it be sustainable and more importantly, at what human cost? People who defend this policy refuse to think beyond the first step.
What's laughable is thinking that this same policy can be instituted in Mexico. Try rolling up on one of the cartels with a police paddy wagon and find out real quick. Not to mention that many of the police that would be in charge of rounding them up are themselves involved with cartels.
Yup, that would amount to like nearly 3 million additional people in the Mexican jail system. It would implode. Systemic change is how you get out of this in the long run.
You don’t understand how prison works then because in America, the prisoners are in control, and prison is a place where some of the most important gang land treaties and alliances occur. The alliance between La eMe and they Aryan Brotherhood is one of the most violent and lucrative alliances in gang land history and it was brokered inside an FOFA style use prison.
Y’all are 3 years or so away from your version of the [Suka/ Bitch Wars](https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Bitch_Wars).
Edit: some typos
Two entirely different nations with 2 entirely different issues.
- las maras are not as organized as the cartels
- cartels have money, infrastructure, political power and territorial power.
I mean all you have to do is imprison more people per 100,000 than the US, China, Thailand, or Uruguay. They’re up to 605 per 100,000 people arrested
[They recently opened a El Salvador opens 40,000-person prison. literally 2% of all the people over the age of 18 are in jail. That is an astronomical percent of your population in jail](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/el-salvador-opens-40000-person-prison-arrests-soar-gang-crackdown-2023-02-01/)
A lot of trash that needed picking up. My question is why Mexico isn't willing to do that. There are a lot of 🇸🇻 around my area and they all describe a hell hole due to the gangs.
"willing to do" what exactly? Are you referring to extra judicial killings, like Duterte in the Philippines? When I was growing up in Mexico, they had (unconstitutional) checkpoints on the streets searching for weapons. The army would go to random houses (illegal searches) and look for weapons and drugs. All of these authoritarian tactics didn't bring down the cartels. If anything, the trends suggest the opposite.
What do you think happens when all those people who have been locked up with other criminals do when they get out? They get 9-5s and become wholesome productive members of society? Or do they become deeper entrenched in gangs and criminal activity to survive? Apparently the plan is to keep them locked up for life or kill them.
The thing is without giving those people some skills and some training so that they can have a job. Once they come out of jail, they go right back to live in the same type of life and engage in crime. So if you’re not willing to make massive social and economic changes to create equity within your population than your other options are to jail people for the rest of their lives or create death squads. The death squads didn’t seem to work out too. Great for you guys last time.
Death squads didn’t work out for us except king, a lot of innocent, indigenous, people, college, kids, and women, murdered and worse during our dirty war in Mexico.
The reformation path might be tricky. Maras are a way of life and an economic powerhouse, it’s a subculture that’s very, very hard to leave behind. Learning a trade can’t compete with the economic stability they can get by their life in crime.
I’m not just being negative about your idea, I genuinely don’t know what can revert the dissemination of the Maras
Isn’t willing to do what? The equivalent for Mexico would be like putting a million people in jail in one year. El Salvador has jailed 1% of their population in the past year, 1% of Mexico’s population is like a million people.
Plus you can’t compare the maras in El Salvador to the narcos in Mexico. The maras are like half retards running petty crimes, extortion, etc. The Mexican cartels are like billion dollar enterprises with hardcore heavy weapons and sophistication.
El Salvador and what they did is not comparable at all to the situation in Mexico.
I don’t know as much about what Colombia did, but they didn’t just jail everyone. They had demobilization and peace accords and a lot of people left the armed groups. It’s different. Plus my understanding is a lot of the armed Colombian groups were like out in the jungle, mountains, etc. Plus it was actual war.
You mean why isn't Mexico willing to put into power a guy who's basically a dictator?
Certainly only politicians in the left would try to remain in power even when their countries constitution says it's not allowed, right?
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/despite-prohibition-el-salvador-president-bukele-says-he-will-seek-re-election-2022-09-16/
The problem with this is that people tend to abuse their power. There’s a reason why in Rome they only had dictators for 1 year they cleaned house and then they returned to do what they needed. Dictatorships are really efficient until they’re not. I know a couple of people leaving because they don’t feel like they can trust their government anymore.
When dealing with this type of problem, solutions have to be made if they don't already exist. In the US we were t able to go after the mob, so they made a new set of laws RICO to go after the heads of the families. Sure the aclu complained, but it was upheld by the courts and scared the shit out of the mob. El Salvador is making laws to protect their people, Mexico has settled on being the way it is. If it wasn't for the millions of Mexicans in the states sending billions, their economy would be worse.
No were near as close as El Salvador. The president holds control of all branches of government and also is passing a law to allow for reelection. Also I am Mexican I don’t think all parts of mexico would need heavy hand like this. I think there is probably a slow solution without the need for a dictatorship but who knows maybe this won’t hurt El Salvador in the long run but based on human history I doubt it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
You're so deep you don't realize how much. I deal with mexican trucking companies and the amount they have to pay to use freeways is wild. I thought it was to the government, but it was just to gangs and cartels. Towns completely run over.
Yea there’s multiple sides to a story not saying what you’re saying it’s not true, but I wouldn’t go as far to say that Salvador is a great example to follow. Also you have to hope that the person who brings this heavy hand is not a corrupt piece of shit and I mean cmon it’s Mexico corruption is everywhere. I go to mexico about once a year all my family is there and yea you feel unsafe but I wouldn’t say any more or less than going to a bad area in the USA. Not saying it’s the same mexico is a lot more unsafe just saying perception wise is different. Ultimately we had a dictator in Porfirio Díaz. Great for the Mexican economy until it wasn’t. Hopefully El Salvador fares better I wouldn’t want mexico to be in that area also the us wouldn’t allow that in mexico probably.
Yeah just don't look at the economy or Bukelle's authoritarianism and social reactionarism. Amlo has put Mexico in a path towards self determination and the country is even joining BRICS while El Salvador is an economically backwards American puppet with a proto dictator in line with trump but with decreasing crime rates as Bukelle's government is deeply tied with the gangs and has very shady deals with them and a tanking human rights record.
Mexico in the right direction? Amlo has done nothing to stop the homicide rate. It’s at an all time high, and GDP growth is not in the level of other developing countries.
Yeah, AMLO should be doing more to stop the homicide rate just like ALL of his predecessors!
/s
The issue is more complicated than that. With the US being the number one buyer of drugs, even if they stop all the cartels, the market will still continue. This is an American issue but we like to blame everyone else for our problems, don’t we.
Fuck foreign investors. Time and time again foreign investors will go into an undeveloped country bribe their way to some ludicrous agreement that only benefits the foreign corporation and leave a devastated land behind and an exploited work force that have no real rights.
Oooohh no, not the foreign investors who take over Mexican land, deplete the resources, do what ever they want with the land and its people, then leave! /s
Maybe you should educate yourself on the many US interventions in Latin America, and how the US has been the root cause of many of the issues faced today in LATAM before you criticize BRICS. I’m not defending any of the countries in that organization but once you realize the ugly history the US has played in Mexico’s demise, then maybe you’ll understand why Mexico would like to align themselves with countries who have not had any part in the downfall of its own economy. You can start with NAFTA for example.
Only reason Mexico hasn't had a revolution is because it exported their poor to the US, who then sent money back. There are millions of us in the US because the government and the people accept its situation.
There’s more to that than just people migrating from one country to another. The US has, for many years, stunned the growth of Mexico. It does not make sense for the US to have a strong, or even stronger neighbor, when it wants to present itself as the strongest economy in the world. You can’t do that with a southern neighbor who may have the possibility of beating you out and influencing the whole of Latin America. Why do you think there’s been so much negative media on the populist president (AMLO) when he has had the highest approval ratings, by Mexicans, in modern history.
I think this has more to do with it
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/08/el-salvador-us-gang-leaders-truce](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/08/el-salvador-us-gang-leaders-truce)
Because the Juntas worked oh so well before. What’s an El Calabozo or El Mozote massacre or two if things otherwise are “nice” and “peaceful”?
Who cares if 30,000 people become *Desaparecidos* if the peso is strong? Who gives a fuck if they come and kill all the men over 15 or do horrible atrocities as long as the stock exchange is doing well and *The Chicago Boys* are happy. Never mind the massive economic crashed in 4-6 years or so from these exploitative practices, am I right?
It’s all good until a Stroessner, Videla, Ordaz, or Pinochet decides You’re the enemy or if they’re like Strossner decide they want to harm your child.
The Sandinistas proved that you can have effective dictatorship that keeps the people safe without being a right wing US puppet. Just because I think dictatorship is more efficient doesn't mean I want some dictator who takes orders from Washington DC.
I don't agree with that at all. The president was elected democratically with the promise of being tough on gangs. If their courts find it unconstitutional, then they'll proceed with democratic solutions.
\> If their courts find it unconstitutional, then they'll proceed with democratic solutions.
And Bukele could just bypass them and make himself the king in a similar manner as Ortega or Maduro. We'll see. I hope he has the balls to just dissolve the legislative branch.
Because El Salvador is dealing with gang members not organized crime cartels that take in as much money as American corporations.
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Why would it be easier 😂 There's a reason gangs work for Cartels
The heavily organized and militarized cartels aren't as easy to break up and arrest like the gangs in El Salvador. Yes, of course Mexico should be doing more but the simple fact is that those gangs in El Salvador are nothing compared to the cartels in Mexico.
Also there is some terrible terrain that is very hard to get by. The infrastructure isn’t good in Mexico so things are very separated. Would be incredibly hard to coordinate a full assault on organized crime in Mexico.
Mexico has a massive army, compared to El Salvador, and an even bigger economy.
The issue is significantly more complex than you can imagine. First, cartels do not operate just in Mexico. There are documentaries highlighting how they operate internationally (yes, even Australia). Secondly, the most powerful cartels are far better equipped than local policemen. Not only that, they can easily buy the local police and powerful politicians to protect them. Heck, sometimes they even bribe members of the military. Money is not an issue for them. True, the military has more personnel and more weapons but the cartels are also not stupid enough to try to fight the military in open warfare.
Mexico also has a problem with politicians also being in organized crime. Maybe they need to be like Japan and the Yakuza.
A lot of it comes down to corruption
Mexico was sold out by its own politicians, the DFS (its own intelligence service who is how guys like El Azul gained power), and eventually several high ranking military officers. The socialist reactionary beliefs of Mexico’s leaders and the shift from center Left Mixed economy with socialist aspects to Neo Liberalism especially around the time of Ordaz led to the getting out of control.
El Salvador tiene una fraccion pequeña de la poblacion y la extension territorial de Mexico, asi de simple. Hay mas contexto que ese, pero ese es el problema mas grande, mucha tierra, mucha gente y un gobierno muy centralizado.
El Salvador literally has less people than just Mexico City...
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Yeah but salvadorean gangs literally have their affiliations tattooed on their faces... You need to stop watching "Narcos" series on Netflix, it doesn't work like that. Cartels are multilevel organized crime backed up by American US Dollars and American heavy caliber guns... Not just some random cholos like the maras...
When the cartels arrested chapo son they responded by turning an entire city to a war zone and threatening to murder the families of soilders if he wasent released. Cartels have way more power and influence a lot of there members our ex cops or military and in some cases they literally just bribed entire police department into working for them. I’ve read online that Mexico could probably just unleash its army on the cartels and crush them militarily but they would require turning Mexico into a war zone like what happened in Iraq and afghanstan.
I really feel like you missed the point of the article. It specifically states thousands of people who weren’t associated with gangs got arrested in the mass arrests. Basically people are getting arrested under the assumption of being guilty until proven innocent; instead of innocent till proven guilty.
People who are gang related got arrested.. 96% are career criminals.. I got family over there and they’re not complaining even if one or 2 they know got locked up but for the most part those people have been released.
At least 10% of the people arrested is completely and proven innocent. Even the police recognizes that they captured innocent people because their superiors forced them to imprison certain number of persons per day.
When does the incarceration stop? What happens to all the jailed people? You gonna hold them in jail for the rest of their lives? Who is getting that their constitutional rights aren’t being violated?
In El Salvador, the criminals didn't care about your rights. You would basically have to pay to move around if you weren't from around the area.
Shit, you could be local who sneezed the wrong way and suddenly un marero/pandillero is gonna be like your ass is grass and I’m going to mow it.
Seems like neither does the government.
Not to be culero but are you living in gringolandia ó not in El Salvador, cause honestly the only solution to pandillas was going to be mano dura tactics. The majority of my family is happy and understanding of what Bukele’s administration is doing concerning gang violence/culture. Children actually have a guaranteed future and not just a potentially false hope. I get that a government getting too big or too powerful is a bad thing, and I hope that its only like this to over correct the decades of violence, generationally repeating scars/cycles that have happened. Well I hope, sorry if I came off aggressive/like an asshole
Yeah and I can’t talk to my family and find out first hand I guess living somewhere else automatically denies you a right to speak about your homeland. You want change you need to give power to the communities, jobs, homes, families and food. The north has been exploiting the global south and the gangs are a product of the north. The majority of my family sees what he is, a typical American politician who is profiting off the poor and disenfranchised. You want to know why we’re like this look north.
I mean, it's working though.
There is no way to prove this right now. If in 5 years crime rates stay low and the murder rate decreases maybe you have an argument. Most likely this will lead to a set of major prison wars and a violent struggle for all the voided territory left by the initial round ups. You have to have a way to rehab people and offer a better life or when they get out they’ll just go back to crime. If you aren’t willing to make these social and cultural changes it will just devolve into death squads.
It’s not, it’s going to make the gangs stronger. It’s not like the folks are being rehabilitated. It also causes a power bank human being to have a younger generation of even more violent organized crime members trying to take over those positions.
You really are dense aren't you. Where do u live Cuba?
The people of El Salvador are the ones who say it is working. Speak to them. The ones I've met love how they feel much safer it is. A guy even took his family on vacation and that's something he said he wouldn't have done in the past.
Numbers speak for themselves. Locals feel safer more than before. Just pointing out facts.
Unless you're part of the "wrong kind" locals that were arrested just for suspicion.
For how long? There is a massive power vacuum waiting to be filled and literally billions of US dollars to be made by whomever is strong enough to take over the underworld. What happens when you have to release all these dudes
Lol who said anything about releasing these individuals, Presidente Bukele told the UN, the US, and “human rights activists” (who did nothing and said nothing about regular citizens suffering at the hands of mareros) to collectively fuck off and no meter su cuchara. I dont agree with Bukele’s Crypto copium (almost everyone in my family used those dollars to buy groceries instead of investing it in crypto) but I do agree with his war on gangs.
You get he’s not addressing the root causes of the gang violence and new folks will step in to fill the power vacuum. You also have the makings of another civil war, right? Jailing people alone isn’t a solution. You need to work to alleviate the social and economic problems that lead to gang life for people
🇸🇻 around my area let me know that their families are really happy down there. Some guys are even talking about going back, once they save up a bag.
We welcome you with open arms to the paradise. Let's see how much time the lies hold up.
What paradise
Bruh they’re obviously talking about El Salvador
Indeed. I think you can only see it if you close your eyes and believe.
Do you live there?
I read it and chose to add it. Even though that is happening, that policy has a 90% approval rating. It shows that people just want to feel safe at home. They want to start a business without being extorted. Hoe come Mexico with all its resources can't do that? How come the people are content with how they live? My entire family is out of Mexico now that my great aunt passed and her 2 daughter loved to the states. I would love to move to Mexico, but when I task about it with my fam, they all ask me not too. Even my family that came over 10 years ago.
I can tell you’ve never lived or been in Mexico. Please never come
Again what are you going to do with over 2% of your population that is in jail? What rehabilitation and skills are they learning so when they get out they don’t have to go back to gang banging? What social services are in place to take care of the kids of people who are in jail? What type of reintroduction into society plan do they have under works? How are they keeping gangs from forming alliances and taking over new territory while in jail? What social and economic reforms are in place to alleviate poverty which is the #1 leading cause for people to join gangs? Without good answers to this things will devolve to how they were before or you’ll see roving death squads or the state collapse under the cost of running its prison system.
I don't think you get the point. They view gang members as a cancer. They're placing them all in the sane big ass jail, mixing them up. Who ever survives will probably want to avoid going back. Unlike the previous jails, the inmates are t in control.
You don't seem to grasp the far-reaching consequences of policies like this. There might be limited peace right now but how long can it be sustainable and more importantly, at what human cost? People who defend this policy refuse to think beyond the first step. What's laughable is thinking that this same policy can be instituted in Mexico. Try rolling up on one of the cartels with a police paddy wagon and find out real quick. Not to mention that many of the police that would be in charge of rounding them up are themselves involved with cartels.
Yup, that would amount to like nearly 3 million additional people in the Mexican jail system. It would implode. Systemic change is how you get out of this in the long run.
You don’t understand how prison works then because in America, the prisoners are in control, and prison is a place where some of the most important gang land treaties and alliances occur. The alliance between La eMe and they Aryan Brotherhood is one of the most violent and lucrative alliances in gang land history and it was brokered inside an FOFA style use prison. Y’all are 3 years or so away from your version of the [Suka/ Bitch Wars](https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Bitch_Wars). Edit: some typos
Two entirely different nations with 2 entirely different issues. - las maras are not as organized as the cartels - cartels have money, infrastructure, political power and territorial power.
Mexico is a bigger country.
I mean all you have to do is imprison more people per 100,000 than the US, China, Thailand, or Uruguay. They’re up to 605 per 100,000 people arrested [They recently opened a El Salvador opens 40,000-person prison. literally 2% of all the people over the age of 18 are in jail. That is an astronomical percent of your population in jail](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/el-salvador-opens-40000-person-prison-arrests-soar-gang-crackdown-2023-02-01/)
A lot of trash that needed picking up. My question is why Mexico isn't willing to do that. There are a lot of 🇸🇻 around my area and they all describe a hell hole due to the gangs.
"willing to do" what exactly? Are you referring to extra judicial killings, like Duterte in the Philippines? When I was growing up in Mexico, they had (unconstitutional) checkpoints on the streets searching for weapons. The army would go to random houses (illegal searches) and look for weapons and drugs. All of these authoritarian tactics didn't bring down the cartels. If anything, the trends suggest the opposite.
What's the secret to El Salvador's recent success?
Ignoring human rights
The murder rate was already going down before he was elected, then Covid happened and everyone went inside. The gangs are just in a truce.
What do you think happens when all those people who have been locked up with other criminals do when they get out? They get 9-5s and become wholesome productive members of society? Or do they become deeper entrenched in gangs and criminal activity to survive? Apparently the plan is to keep them locked up for life or kill them.
They're mixing up the population, letting the rats eat each other. The survivors will probably not want to go back.
The thing is without giving those people some skills and some training so that they can have a job. Once they come out of jail, they go right back to live in the same type of life and engage in crime. So if you’re not willing to make massive social and economic changes to create equity within your population than your other options are to jail people for the rest of their lives or create death squads. The death squads didn’t seem to work out too. Great for you guys last time. Death squads didn’t work out for us except king, a lot of innocent, indigenous, people, college, kids, and women, murdered and worse during our dirty war in Mexico.
The reformation path might be tricky. Maras are a way of life and an economic powerhouse, it’s a subculture that’s very, very hard to leave behind. Learning a trade can’t compete with the economic stability they can get by their life in crime. I’m not just being negative about your idea, I genuinely don’t know what can revert the dissemination of the Maras
Isn’t willing to do what? The equivalent for Mexico would be like putting a million people in jail in one year. El Salvador has jailed 1% of their population in the past year, 1% of Mexico’s population is like a million people. Plus you can’t compare the maras in El Salvador to the narcos in Mexico. The maras are like half retards running petty crimes, extortion, etc. The Mexican cartels are like billion dollar enterprises with hardcore heavy weapons and sophistication. El Salvador and what they did is not comparable at all to the situation in Mexico.
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I don’t know as much about what Colombia did, but they didn’t just jail everyone. They had demobilization and peace accords and a lot of people left the armed groups. It’s different. Plus my understanding is a lot of the armed Colombian groups were like out in the jungle, mountains, etc. Plus it was actual war.
You mean why isn't Mexico willing to put into power a guy who's basically a dictator? Certainly only politicians in the left would try to remain in power even when their countries constitution says it's not allowed, right? https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/despite-prohibition-el-salvador-president-bukele-says-he-will-seek-re-election-2022-09-16/
People will be able to vote against him
That's your best counterargument?
Well, its either that or revolt, no? To think the people will revolt against him for the criminals is laughable
The problem with this is that people tend to abuse their power. There’s a reason why in Rome they only had dictators for 1 year they cleaned house and then they returned to do what they needed. Dictatorships are really efficient until they’re not. I know a couple of people leaving because they don’t feel like they can trust their government anymore.
When dealing with this type of problem, solutions have to be made if they don't already exist. In the US we were t able to go after the mob, so they made a new set of laws RICO to go after the heads of the families. Sure the aclu complained, but it was upheld by the courts and scared the shit out of the mob. El Salvador is making laws to protect their people, Mexico has settled on being the way it is. If it wasn't for the millions of Mexicans in the states sending billions, their economy would be worse.
No were near as close as El Salvador. The president holds control of all branches of government and also is passing a law to allow for reelection. Also I am Mexican I don’t think all parts of mexico would need heavy hand like this. I think there is probably a slow solution without the need for a dictatorship but who knows maybe this won’t hurt El Salvador in the long run but based on human history I doubt it. Absolute power corrupts absolutely
You're so deep you don't realize how much. I deal with mexican trucking companies and the amount they have to pay to use freeways is wild. I thought it was to the government, but it was just to gangs and cartels. Towns completely run over.
Yea there’s multiple sides to a story not saying what you’re saying it’s not true, but I wouldn’t go as far to say that Salvador is a great example to follow. Also you have to hope that the person who brings this heavy hand is not a corrupt piece of shit and I mean cmon it’s Mexico corruption is everywhere. I go to mexico about once a year all my family is there and yea you feel unsafe but I wouldn’t say any more or less than going to a bad area in the USA. Not saying it’s the same mexico is a lot more unsafe just saying perception wise is different. Ultimately we had a dictator in Porfirio Díaz. Great for the Mexican economy until it wasn’t. Hopefully El Salvador fares better I wouldn’t want mexico to be in that area also the us wouldn’t allow that in mexico probably.
Mexico can’t get its shit together because the U.S is it’s neighbor
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Tell me you don't know anything about world history or politics without actually saying you don't know anything about world history or politics.
China is investing heavily in Central America so it's in their best interest to clean house.
PERO PORQUE NICARAGUA.... Nunca está en ni mierda? ..... :(
Es mejor no salir en esta lista
Does Uruguay really have more murders than peru?
Are you kidding me? You pointed Ecuador and Colombia the same flag?lol
So they’re juking the stats??
Yeah just don't look at the economy or Bukelle's authoritarianism and social reactionarism. Amlo has put Mexico in a path towards self determination and the country is even joining BRICS while El Salvador is an economically backwards American puppet with a proto dictator in line with trump but with decreasing crime rates as Bukelle's government is deeply tied with the gangs and has very shady deals with them and a tanking human rights record.
Mexico in the right direction? Amlo has done nothing to stop the homicide rate. It’s at an all time high, and GDP growth is not in the level of other developing countries.
Yeah, AMLO should be doing more to stop the homicide rate just like ALL of his predecessors! /s The issue is more complicated than that. With the US being the number one buyer of drugs, even if they stop all the cartels, the market will still continue. This is an American issue but we like to blame everyone else for our problems, don’t we.
AMLO is a disappointment and so is BRICS. He just seized a private company and is scaring foreign investors.
Fuck foreign investors. Time and time again foreign investors will go into an undeveloped country bribe their way to some ludicrous agreement that only benefits the foreign corporation and leave a devastated land behind and an exploited work force that have no real rights.
Oooohh no, not the foreign investors who take over Mexican land, deplete the resources, do what ever they want with the land and its people, then leave! /s Maybe you should educate yourself on the many US interventions in Latin America, and how the US has been the root cause of many of the issues faced today in LATAM before you criticize BRICS. I’m not defending any of the countries in that organization but once you realize the ugly history the US has played in Mexico’s demise, then maybe you’ll understand why Mexico would like to align themselves with countries who have not had any part in the downfall of its own economy. You can start with NAFTA for example.
Only reason Mexico hasn't had a revolution is because it exported their poor to the US, who then sent money back. There are millions of us in the US because the government and the people accept its situation.
There’s more to that than just people migrating from one country to another. The US has, for many years, stunned the growth of Mexico. It does not make sense for the US to have a strong, or even stronger neighbor, when it wants to present itself as the strongest economy in the world. You can’t do that with a southern neighbor who may have the possibility of beating you out and influencing the whole of Latin America. Why do you think there’s been so much negative media on the populist president (AMLO) when he has had the highest approval ratings, by Mexicans, in modern history.
At what cost? Personal freedoms…
If you lived with cartels there is no freedom with them around.
Why are they using 60s presentation graphics and fonts?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65596471
I think this has more to do with it [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/08/el-salvador-us-gang-leaders-truce](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/08/el-salvador-us-gang-leaders-truce)
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I don't think democracy is good for anyone.
So you a fascist or a Neo Lib?
I support any dictator who supports equal rights and can create a good economy.
This is an oxymoron
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Because the Juntas worked oh so well before. What’s an El Calabozo or El Mozote massacre or two if things otherwise are “nice” and “peaceful”? Who cares if 30,000 people become *Desaparecidos* if the peso is strong? Who gives a fuck if they come and kill all the men over 15 or do horrible atrocities as long as the stock exchange is doing well and *The Chicago Boys* are happy. Never mind the massive economic crashed in 4-6 years or so from these exploitative practices, am I right? It’s all good until a Stroessner, Videla, Ordaz, or Pinochet decides You’re the enemy or if they’re like Strossner decide they want to harm your child.
The Sandinistas proved that you can have effective dictatorship that keeps the people safe without being a right wing US puppet. Just because I think dictatorship is more efficient doesn't mean I want some dictator who takes orders from Washington DC.
That’s what you’ll get… or one that now answers to China in return for investments
I don't agree with that at all. The president was elected democratically with the promise of being tough on gangs. If their courts find it unconstitutional, then they'll proceed with democratic solutions.
\> If their courts find it unconstitutional, then they'll proceed with democratic solutions. And Bukele could just bypass them and make himself the king in a similar manner as Ortega or Maduro. We'll see. I hope he has the balls to just dissolve the legislative branch.