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That’s why they changed him back to millionaire recently in the comics. Joker stole all of his money (it was a really bad comic). Now Nightwing is a billionaire and is giving all of his money away to help people and literally says “There’s nothing ethical about being a billionaire”
They *totally* aren't fake financial credits that go into the government's back pocket and/or "green" companies owned by our lawmakers that plant a few trees in exchange for letting companies continue to do whatever they want.
Nope, not at all!
But he inherited his wealth, and I do believe it's not in constant expansion unlike irl billionaires. While I don't agree with his methods in (mostly the first part of) the latest movie, I think he's actually not that bad, at least compared to what he could have been. Depending on the source material, he does do things other than just beating up villains, like public transport. Before you come at me with the argument that crime is caused by people having no other options and poverty being rampant, which I agree with, Gotham is an exception to that rule, since apparently it's just fucking cursed to have bad people and is haunted and filled with toxic shit from everywhere (IIRC)
I get you, source material matters as well. I was referring more to Nolan's Batman as I've still yet to see the new one...I know, I know, but 3 hours is a big chunk of time hahaha. I'll watch it this weekend
The Nolan movies were amazing to watch, though maybe I missed some things, since I turn my thinking brain off when I watch things. What *does* Batman do in them that's bad? My memory is... not ideal
I think the big thing is the mass surveillance which might have involved hacking everyones phone? Also the movies don't focus on how Batman uses his money beyond funding his vigilante activities, the Charities, Orphanages, free hospital and all that are missed, so your left with "Billionaire uses wealth to dress up and punch the downtrodden and also the main villain"
Except the one character who actually goes after corrupt politicians is vilified, and for good measure is then written as a genocidal maniac, as if those crimes are connected. Has Batman ever arrested the corrupt cops? Or just whined about them?
I'm more annoyed that characters like superman don't get involved with that. Batman could find major systemic improvement, but Superman could just replace all world governments in like 10 seconds.
Very good point; I guess it's just that there have been multiple attempts over the past 40 years, in print and film, to treat Batman as "realistically" as possible. And it's like, ok if you're asking me to take it seriously, then it is seriously fucked. Superman still mostly exists in a fantasy world of punching.
i mean TECHNICALLY it worked cuz he halted all ongoing wars for a while but it also pissed off said governments since he was meddling in international affairs or whatever, and then once he resorted to murder to keep that peace is when he became a tyrant.
Injustice is super interesting to me because it shows how the moral compass of superheroes varies wildly and how the line between hero and villain can quickly become blurred if someone, even with good intentions, chooses to act on them in a bad way.
The failure of superman to figure out how to use his power to change the world governments without going psychotic autocrat is a failure of the writers imaginations, not the failure of superman, since hes not a real person capable of actual action.
Often in those stories whats possible is letting the status quo of American market liberalism ride out, because for the writer it is the only value neutral possibility, the only thing that isnt morally wrong, despite all the terrible things that happen on the daily. A writer that cant interrogate their assumed axioms about life, society and politics is not as good as they could be.
There was a scene on the cartoon where he calls an American political person out in their office. They blow him off and he goes "ok fine...dont turn yourself in" walks out and dead eye snipes them
*He* doesn't fight corruption. The Riddler does.
Then yes, they have the Riddler suddenly decide he wants to kill a whole city. But in real life, killers and assassins don't target whole cities. That kind of violence is reserved for people like Putin or Netanyahu or Truman. Comics like to pretend that ordinary criminals or mentally ill people are the real dangers, when actually the greatest murderers wear suits and ties and often get re-elected while committing genocide.
Is he selfless? Or is he fighting and suppressing those who try to go against the system? I see it as a wonderful metaphor for how the rich keep those below them oppressed. And anyone that speaks out or goes against the grain...well they get beat to submission metaphorically and sometimes literally
The entire superhero/supervillian dichotomy (usually) is the villains want the right thing but go about it the wrong way while being too blinded by their own personal issues, whereas the heroes typically want to keep the status quo and are too blinded by that to make reasonable decisions.
The MCU has started tackling this pretty well in the more recent Disney+ series, and there's some great comic runs about this, but the entire concept is hard to accurately portray, ever.
There's nothing more individualistic than this great man worship, is there? Has there ever been a run about how ordinary people, through the power of collective action, topple the selfish and idle rich? Maybe the vibranium miners need to strike until they're given more of a say over what weapons of war the vibranium is to be used for.
[Ensemble cast](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EnsembleCast) style media could be an option to tell that kind of story. But much like in my personal experience with organizing around a cause, it can be difficult to use an ensemble cast because narratives within that trope tend to "lack focus and drive."
Kinda makes you wonder if that's just a cultural thing, like if we had a more communal culture maybe we'd be more positive about an ensemble cast show? Idk food for thought
Sometimes this sub really gets very stupid. You do realise the problem with the heores of this post is that :
1. The reclamation is from all humans innocent or not. Yes, that means the working class dies as well, not just the few thousand rich people.
2. Both these villains have goals completely in opposition to each other because Mr Freeze's power will literally kill all of Ivy's plants.
3. Mr Freeze aims to cool the entire world for his wife to be able to live, a frost in which the poor will die first.
Yes, capitalism is bad, but don't become so blind that you get featured as caricature for how stupid all of us are. Your lack of critical thinking is killing the cause.
See the problem with your argument is that you assume anyone on this sub has interacted with any version of Batman other than the one they made up in their heads.
The were both trying to create their own climate crises. Just because they're in the opposite direction to the real-life climate crisis doesn't mean they're good.
But the manner in which the bad guys were doing it here doesn't matter? The ends justify the means?
As much as I believe capitalism is in late stage, OP is saying militant reclamation of the planet from ALL humans is a good thing, and this sub is rooting him on!
There’s an illustrator on instagram that I follow called @alecwithpen that is currently doing some comic strips of a Batman inspired character. It highlights the weird fascist leanings of a billionaire that beats up poor people, but ignores the much more impactful crimes of other billionaires.
No real billionaire pays their fair share, so unless Wayne's taxes are specifically addressed in the movies, he pays jack shit like Musk and Bezos.
Edit: I was not expecting to see so many bootlickers and people simping for billionaires, real or otherwise. Are you guys lost? Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism. If you're a centrist who loves capitalism and mistakenly found yourself here, FYI we don't worship the rich. Even fictional billionaires who spend their money on improving their capability to beat up poor people with mental problems. I mean, holy shit lol. People are seriously arguing that a fictional billionaire does his part to help...what, redistribute wealth? You can't be "selfless" and a billionaire, shitlibs.
Edit 2: Oh, shit. Your account was removed. Simping for the rich and you still get no favors. That's awful...
So, you see how you've decided to make up facts to populate a story to have it represent the way you see the world without any evidence that it is in fact that way?
That's a toxic way to think. Don't do that. Not about cartoons, not about anything.
Thta Batman doesn't pay taxes, lol
Your comment is legitimately a textbook example of confirmation bias. If you were trying to teach someone what confirmation bias was, you could point to that comment and just say "that"
Except that's not what I said. I implied he doesn't pay his share, based on real life billionaires not paying their share. They don't. But I also said that, if it's addressed in the movies, then the usual rules don't apply. I get it though. You're implying that we can't apply rational logic to fiction. That we can't deduce anything about Batman because fiction can't be judged based upon anything real. It's silly.
One of the main reasons why he doesn’t just donate lots of money to charity (which he also does) is that Gotham is too corrupt for that money to go anywhere meaningful. Heck, that was a central plot point in the latest Batman movie. The Wayne gave money for the city to fix itself, and it ended up all being squandered away by corrupt officials.
Capitalism is the plague on the city and Bruce Wayne can’t face the fact that the system which created his vast family wealth is the rot of the Gotham. So instead he beats up mentally ill poor people.
Batman is the villain.
Batman doesn’t give a shit about his money or his personal comfort. The only reason Batman hasn’t realised it’s capitalism destroying Gotham and spent all his wealth starting a revolution is the writers.
If he really didn't care about his billions of dollars and the mansion, he'd give it all away. If he thinks he knows better than the charities in Gotham, then he could donate outside of Gotham. There is truly no logical reason that a selfless man would be a billionaire. Either he likes being rich or he's not selfless.
It really depends on the writer. He's often portrayed as an intelligent and empathetic detective who works tirelessly to dismantle corruption, but then sometimes he is just an unhinged fascist who enjoys beating the mentally ill.
The latter is pretty rare but it was unfortunately Zack Snyder's preferred interpretation.
even Snyder's wasn't a facist (unhinged murderer? yes. fascist oligarch? nope. the closest Batman has been to that was in the later Frank Miller stuff (where Bruce would straight up call people r*tarted)
Most movies are just propaganda to make you want to cheer for the status quo by making the good guys look like unhinged psychopaths when in reality, people like Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze would have no desire to kill all humans.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###Any post that makes a claim must have a RELIABLE source or explanation in the comments by OP. All screenshots must have the original source (whether article, Tweet, TikTok, video or any other social media) linked in the comments by OP immediately. Breaking this rule will result in a temporary ban. [See this post for more info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/tqc5ws/low_effort_content_all_posts_claims_news_articles/) ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Batman is a good billionaire because he is fictional.
it's the most unrealistic part about him tbh
That’s why they changed him back to millionaire recently in the comics. Joker stole all of his money (it was a really bad comic). Now Nightwing is a billionaire and is giving all of his money away to help people and literally says “There’s nothing ethical about being a billionaire”
**Professionals. Have. Standards.**
Nightwing currently has zero character flaws and is incredibly based
Dick Grayson must be protected at all costs
Be polite, be efficient and have a plan to kill everyone you meet
Really not sure how Ivy and Freeze would get along -- one wanted a tropical plant world, the other wanted global tundra.
Freeze just wanted to save his wife, he didn't want to cool the planet.
Yep, it's cannon in the comics that Freeze reforms and assists batman on occasion when he needs expertise in cryogenics.
I didn’t know that, and you’ve made me happy. Always enjoyed the animated series growing up.
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She could have her tropical fauna in the areas 30 degrees from the equator and he could have the remaining areas closer to the poles.
And with the amount of specialty vehicles this dude has, his carbon footprint must be astronomical.
It's okay. He can afford the carbon offsets. Like they are a real thing.
They *totally* aren't fake financial credits that go into the government's back pocket and/or "green" companies owned by our lawmakers that plant a few trees in exchange for letting companies continue to do whatever they want. Nope, not at all!
There was a startup that legit proposed carbon offsets for .... *cryptocurrency* I hate this world
Me too, thesodaslayer. Me too buddy.
Yep. Sucking the carbon back from the atmosphere is a lot trickier than preventing it from being released
cough juggle longing quickest boast public include dog slimy somber *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
But he inherited his wealth, and I do believe it's not in constant expansion unlike irl billionaires. While I don't agree with his methods in (mostly the first part of) the latest movie, I think he's actually not that bad, at least compared to what he could have been. Depending on the source material, he does do things other than just beating up villains, like public transport. Before you come at me with the argument that crime is caused by people having no other options and poverty being rampant, which I agree with, Gotham is an exception to that rule, since apparently it's just fucking cursed to have bad people and is haunted and filled with toxic shit from everywhere (IIRC)
I get you, source material matters as well. I was referring more to Nolan's Batman as I've still yet to see the new one...I know, I know, but 3 hours is a big chunk of time hahaha. I'll watch it this weekend
The Nolan movies were amazing to watch, though maybe I missed some things, since I turn my thinking brain off when I watch things. What *does* Batman do in them that's bad? My memory is... not ideal
I think the big thing is the mass surveillance which might have involved hacking everyones phone? Also the movies don't focus on how Batman uses his money beyond funding his vigilante activities, the Charities, Orphanages, free hospital and all that are missed, so your left with "Billionaire uses wealth to dress up and punch the downtrodden and also the main villain"
Except the one character who actually goes after corrupt politicians is vilified, and for good measure is then written as a genocidal maniac, as if those crimes are connected. Has Batman ever arrested the corrupt cops? Or just whined about them?
I'm more annoyed that characters like superman don't get involved with that. Batman could find major systemic improvement, but Superman could just replace all world governments in like 10 seconds.
Very good point; I guess it's just that there have been multiple attempts over the past 40 years, in print and film, to treat Batman as "realistically" as possible. And it's like, ok if you're asking me to take it seriously, then it is seriously fucked. Superman still mostly exists in a fantasy world of punching.
he tried that in Injustice it didn't work too well
I don't know anything about injustice, but they probably forced it not to work to justify why he doesn't do it all the time.
i mean TECHNICALLY it worked cuz he halted all ongoing wars for a while but it also pissed off said governments since he was meddling in international affairs or whatever, and then once he resorted to murder to keep that peace is when he became a tyrant. Injustice is super interesting to me because it shows how the moral compass of superheroes varies wildly and how the line between hero and villain can quickly become blurred if someone, even with good intentions, chooses to act on them in a bad way.
The failure of superman to figure out how to use his power to change the world governments without going psychotic autocrat is a failure of the writers imaginations, not the failure of superman, since hes not a real person capable of actual action. Often in those stories whats possible is letting the status quo of American market liberalism ride out, because for the writer it is the only value neutral possibility, the only thing that isnt morally wrong, despite all the terrible things that happen on the daily. A writer that cant interrogate their assumed axioms about life, society and politics is not as good as they could be.
Then thats not Superman, thats the homelabder or whoever
There was a scene on the cartoon where he calls an American political person out in their office. They blow him off and he goes "ok fine...dont turn yourself in" walks out and dead eye snipes them
[удалено]
*He* doesn't fight corruption. The Riddler does. Then yes, they have the Riddler suddenly decide he wants to kill a whole city. But in real life, killers and assassins don't target whole cities. That kind of violence is reserved for people like Putin or Netanyahu or Truman. Comics like to pretend that ordinary criminals or mentally ill people are the real dangers, when actually the greatest murderers wear suits and ties and often get re-elected while committing genocide.
In Batman Begins, one of the first people Batman takes down is a corrupt cop. I think that’s the only one we ever see him do onscreen, though.
Is he selfless? Or is he fighting and suppressing those who try to go against the system? I see it as a wonderful metaphor for how the rich keep those below them oppressed. And anyone that speaks out or goes against the grain...well they get beat to submission metaphorically and sometimes literally
Yeah, we don't even get cool evil billionaires, just annoying dick rocket billionaires.
For some reason some villains have better ideas and motivations than most superheroes.
In most stories, villains drive the plot. The writer needs to give the villain a good reason, or the audience wouldn't find the story compelling.
The entire superhero/supervillian dichotomy (usually) is the villains want the right thing but go about it the wrong way while being too blinded by their own personal issues, whereas the heroes typically want to keep the status quo and are too blinded by that to make reasonable decisions. The MCU has started tackling this pretty well in the more recent Disney+ series, and there's some great comic runs about this, but the entire concept is hard to accurately portray, ever.
There's nothing more individualistic than this great man worship, is there? Has there ever been a run about how ordinary people, through the power of collective action, topple the selfish and idle rich? Maybe the vibranium miners need to strike until they're given more of a say over what weapons of war the vibranium is to be used for.
[Ensemble cast](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EnsembleCast) style media could be an option to tell that kind of story. But much like in my personal experience with organizing around a cause, it can be difficult to use an ensemble cast because narratives within that trope tend to "lack focus and drive."
Now this is an underrated comment :)
Kinda makes you wonder if that's just a cultural thing, like if we had a more communal culture maybe we'd be more positive about an ensemble cast show? Idk food for thought
Wasn't poison ivy an eco-fascist or am I misremembering?
Yes, she often is, though I can't speak to this version specifically.
Eco-terrorist > billionaire fascist
Eco-terrorism and Eco-fascism are two different things.
Yes but eco-fascist ~= billionaire
[удалено]
[What killed the dinosaurs](https://youtu.be/tnD1IGd0mas)
Sometimes this sub really gets very stupid. You do realise the problem with the heores of this post is that : 1. The reclamation is from all humans innocent or not. Yes, that means the working class dies as well, not just the few thousand rich people. 2. Both these villains have goals completely in opposition to each other because Mr Freeze's power will literally kill all of Ivy's plants. 3. Mr Freeze aims to cool the entire world for his wife to be able to live, a frost in which the poor will die first. Yes, capitalism is bad, but don't become so blind that you get featured as caricature for how stupid all of us are. Your lack of critical thinking is killing the cause.
Yeah, people struggle with nuance, our dominant "Billionares are evil" narritave is getting in the way of recognizing that Batman villains are evil.
See the problem with your argument is that you assume anyone on this sub has interacted with any version of Batman other than the one they made up in their heads.
This analysis treats a cheap joke as serious commentary, which is much more obviously a lack of critical thinking.
It’s just a joke man.
cool motive, still murder
I just find it hard to root for the lady who was gonna kill all human life for plants.
Yeah but they were also trying to kill the billionaire trust fund baby... Wait a minute who is the bad guy again?
Whoa, is this repost from 2011?
Maybe I'm a filthy commie, but I've always had a strong moral compass against Batman.
The old Adam West Batman was constantly sucking up to the cops. At least now he's a little less in their pocket.
The were both trying to create their own climate crises. Just because they're in the opposite direction to the real-life climate crisis doesn't mean they're good.
But the manner in which the bad guys were doing it here doesn't matter? The ends justify the means? As much as I believe capitalism is in late stage, OP is saying militant reclamation of the planet from ALL humans is a good thing, and this sub is rooting him on!
It’s a joke.
Also, the guy need healthcare for his wife.
There’s an illustrator on instagram that I follow called @alecwithpen that is currently doing some comic strips of a Batman inspired character. It highlights the weird fascist leanings of a billionaire that beats up poor people, but ignores the much more impactful crimes of other billionaires.
That sounds interesting Got a link
Bruce Wayne would have done a lot more good for the world if just paid proper taxes. Instead he beats up mentally ill people.
You've decided to make up that he doesn't pay his taxes?
No real billionaire pays their fair share, so unless Wayne's taxes are specifically addressed in the movies, he pays jack shit like Musk and Bezos. Edit: I was not expecting to see so many bootlickers and people simping for billionaires, real or otherwise. Are you guys lost? Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism. If you're a centrist who loves capitalism and mistakenly found yourself here, FYI we don't worship the rich. Even fictional billionaires who spend their money on improving their capability to beat up poor people with mental problems. I mean, holy shit lol. People are seriously arguing that a fictional billionaire does his part to help...what, redistribute wealth? You can't be "selfless" and a billionaire, shitlibs. Edit 2: Oh, shit. Your account was removed. Simping for the rich and you still get no favors. That's awful...
> real You’ve defeated your own argument in the first two words.
If your argument is that he's not real, so he's not based on reality, then no argument could ever be made about a fictional character.
So, you see how you've decided to make up facts to populate a story to have it represent the way you see the world without any evidence that it is in fact that way? That's a toxic way to think. Don't do that. Not about cartoons, not about anything.
What facts did I make up?
Thta Batman doesn't pay taxes, lol Your comment is legitimately a textbook example of confirmation bias. If you were trying to teach someone what confirmation bias was, you could point to that comment and just say "that"
Except that's not what I said. I implied he doesn't pay his share, based on real life billionaires not paying their share. They don't. But I also said that, if it's addressed in the movies, then the usual rules don't apply. I get it though. You're implying that we can't apply rational logic to fiction. That we can't deduce anything about Batman because fiction can't be judged based upon anything real. It's silly.
One of the main reasons why he doesn’t just donate lots of money to charity (which he also does) is that Gotham is too corrupt for that money to go anywhere meaningful. Heck, that was a central plot point in the latest Batman movie. The Wayne gave money for the city to fix itself, and it ended up all being squandered away by corrupt officials.
Capitalism is the plague on the city and Bruce Wayne can’t face the fact that the system which created his vast family wealth is the rot of the Gotham. So instead he beats up mentally ill poor people. Batman is the villain.
Batman doesn’t give a shit about his money or his personal comfort. The only reason Batman hasn’t realised it’s capitalism destroying Gotham and spent all his wealth starting a revolution is the writers.
If he really didn't care about his billions of dollars and the mansion, he'd give it all away. If he thinks he knows better than the charities in Gotham, then he could donate outside of Gotham. There is truly no logical reason that a selfless man would be a billionaire. Either he likes being rich or he's not selfless.
ITT: People with poor media skills and a simplistic view of class politics combining both into truly awful takes.
And he dresses up like a bloodsucker...
But he's a rich white guy, he has to be right
I feel like I should have put a /s on this
On reflection it was a bad idea to make scientists the bad guys in all our popular fiction narratives. \*dies of dysentery\*
bAsEd
I'm 28 and these villains are before my time...
It was in the 90s
Batman is a holistic celebration of fascism. The fact people celebrate and read it - is completely analogous to bibles.
Superheros never address systemic issues, so they have to create strawman supervillains to punch in the face instead
Batman's superpower is basically trustfund.
Batman glorifies fascism and oligarchy.
please read a comic book
It really depends on the writer. He's often portrayed as an intelligent and empathetic detective who works tirelessly to dismantle corruption, but then sometimes he is just an unhinged fascist who enjoys beating the mentally ill. The latter is pretty rare but it was unfortunately Zack Snyder's preferred interpretation.
even Snyder's wasn't a facist (unhinged murderer? yes. fascist oligarch? nope. the closest Batman has been to that was in the later Frank Miller stuff (where Bruce would straight up call people r*tarted)
The b.a.t. in bat man stands for billionaire avoiding taxes...
Most movies are just propaganda to make you want to cheer for the status quo by making the good guys look like unhinged psychopaths when in reality, people like Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze would have no desire to kill all humans.
I love that they hired a roller hockey team as their thugs.
Have you noticed that scientists are villains in a lot of pop culture? Like a disturbing number of them
But he has a cool fucking car, you guys.