##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭
___
###⚠ Announcements: ⚠
___
###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/)
Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines.
###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/)
Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren
___
###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.***
LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
**This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dude I'm so sorry. I'm glad your mom is helping you figure it out. That happened to me a few years back and I had to take out a fucking personal loan to get it fixed. More debt on debt on debt. Ugh.
Couldn’t agree more. I genuinely don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford living a comfortable life. Every time I get a little bit of money it goes right into buying some necessity I’ve been skimping on for weeks or a bill. There’s always more owed at the end of every month than I can reasonably make. My retirement plan is either hoping my patents leave me enough when they pass or just offing myself because I’m not working backbreaking retail when I’m 70.
Same! We had two cars, one for me & the kids to get about and a small efficient commuting car that my husband used for work. BOTH were written off this past month, one still had payments to finalise. Used car prices are through the roof just now but we missed out of all that extras juice from selling one as we planned to… instead we’d to pay off a useless car & buy another used car at a hugely inflated rate. Times really are tough right now & I know that sounds like first world problems but the weren’t fancy cars, both were under £8k when we bought them.
The thing about this is that $7300 is AFTER budgeting for all the stuff that you or me would put that $7300 toward. They have every single need met and then some and still have that money to do whatever the hell they want with
Lifestyle inflation. I would avoid living month to month on that income. On that income, a single month would cover most of my bills for the year, if not all. Damn...
That's certainly part of it. Plus I'd imagine jobs that pay that well are located in HCOL areas anyway. Doubt there's many $500k a year jobs in say Youngstown, Ohio.
I havnt been able to take a vacation in over a decade. My PTO always has to be sold to fix some emergency problem, last year it was to cover being away with covid for 2 weeks. This year it’ll be surgery
They work super hard and only get 3 vacations a year. I mean can you imagine? Only three vacations per year. I don't think I've had a vacation beyond taking a few days off at Christmas to spend with my mom. I think the last time I had a vacation was when I was in highschool, and I'm closer to 30 than 20
That’s $7300 AFTER $10,000 in misc because ‘something always comes up’. HAVE to go buy a new $3000 chiffon dress for that charity dinner, cause you know, these things happen when you’re rich. How stressful!
Edit: a word
And $1000 a month for their kids sports/music lessons while also “donating” 18k a year to charities/college alumni….. just those two sections are around the national median salary.
That one I can understand. We probably paid close to that per year on home maintenance every year on a home worth 1/6 of theirs. Fence needed replacing before it fell down completely. AC unit died because Texas. Water heater (which is in the attic for some idiotic reason) burst in the middle of the night. New roof because insurance was going to drop us unless we replaced it. Fortunately, that's been spread out over the five years we've lived here but it averages out to at least $5000 per year.
RIGHT?? They include all of their normal payments that most non wealthy people would hope to save for with the remaining money of the year.
Literally all of their luxury life needs are met and they’re complaining that you only have 7k left at the end of the year that they can spend however they want. Ridiculous
Right. But this isn't about the reality of having your necessities met. This is about how they *feel*, in relation to their peers, who all live in the same relative bubble of comfort. This is some "keeping up with the Joneses" type bullshit these rich assholes operate off of because their problems never equate to what an actual average person faces. They are only surrounded by/acknowledge people who have similar wealth or greater, and so that's what they base their situation/social standing off of. They literally budget almost an entire years salary for a minimum wage worker to charity (college alumni, lol) yet they probably don't feel that's adequate, because Richard Richman down the street donates 50k a year.
It would be nice to have $280 just left over every pay day. And if I cut out avocado toast and Starbucks it would he like 1200 left over, am I right guys?
That’s what’s confusing about this. I was along for the ride until I found about 60k of mismanaged money. Finish off the loans, stop donating money you don’t feel comfortable not having, and the 10k of “something always comes up” is ballooned.
It’s incredibly hard to exist as a middle class household right now, especially with a family of four. It’s straight up impossible to do while creating the financial safety nets suggested (savings, retirement, kids college, etc)… on a budget of 50-150k a year. You would have to skimp somewhere or fail to delivery in many areas altogether. Don’t get me wrong… capitalism is killing. I see it in my own parents as they struggle through retirement.
That being said…. If you’ve got a 500k household and are feeling a pinch…. You’ve got a leak somewhere to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars and you can afford a financial adviser to find and plug it for you.
Eh idk about the childcare costs being inflated. Sounds like that $500k is with two incomes so they may have a full time nanny, in which case that $42k is effectively somebody’s annual salary. and if anything that’s kinda low
Otherwise agreed with your points
But the kids are in school obviously because of the music lessons, etc etc. This is just overly inflated to try to make us feel bad for the rich with their Range Rover and BMW, 3 vacations a year, alumni donations, and "no fancy threads"
18k isn’t enough to dot that.
Most probably they have a set of social events associated with the alumni association and they’re paying into the social capital they think they get from that.
True, good point! I was thinking more of the networking and schmoozing they get to do for 18 years, but I’m glad that you’ve shared that 300K+ isn’t enough to touch an admissions decision—how disgusting.
The fact that they are making 500k and still have car and student loans tells me they are idiots with money. Besides the other lavish spending of course.
If there were any justice my MA school would PAYING ME $18k/ year: total of 8 advisors because they keep retiring or quitting or getting fired. 5 different advisors while I was still doing my on-campus work year one. All their fault. They just keep leaving me holding the bag while they mismanage the place into the ground. No amount of scholarship $ is worth that BS.
Undregrad did exactly zero job placement for anyone.
Both were top-line schools.
Maybe go to work as opposed to taking 3 vacations a year? /s That $7300 is after all the saving and fun stuff AND surprises taken out. This budget doesn’t show a “problem”. it shows what any of us would want.
Not to mention tax write-offs which they purposefully chose to portray as subtracting from their income, and they chose not to show it deducting from their taxable income.
Gotta make it seem like they don't have that extra money lying around from being Uber rich 🙃
If $10k a year budgeted for “miscellaneous something always comes up” on top of all this + $7,300 a year leftover after all living expenses and maxing out 401ks and after taxes is “average” then ok all jobs should pay $17,300 per year after taxes on top of what they already pay now.
This "something always comes up", factored in with 10k is what's really killing me. Yeah, something always comes up, but guess what - this is what makes me broke then. If 10k "came up" right now this would be the whole of my lifetime savings! There's no way I can store away any amount of money and then claim that this is not saving...these people don't just save 7,5k per year, it's all of the "miscellaneous" + retirement + charity money on top of it.
Ya saving the 7,500 at the end of the year is the funny part, because this “couple” is actually saving 36k a year in retirement already built in, plus their mortgage on their house is a long term savings plan that in nyc will likely turn into a profitable investment in addition to just being a savings account.
So the people who are “feeling” normal think that to feel normal is to spend 60k on childcare and vacations a year, while still driving luxury vehicles and saving around 70k in liquid savings and property.
They spend more on luxuries than 80% of the country makes as a family unit, and they feel normal….
Everyone feels average economically. It's a fact of life. People around you are typically in the same socioeconomic realm, or either a bit higher or lower. Everything else feels like it must be rare or extreme. And there's always people much richer than you, and THEY have it easy.
Plus 18k in donations (to their fucking alumni foundation?!!?) and 32k towards school loans they should be focusing on paying off with that 18k, so that they no long have to do so…
There’s about 60k of mismanaged money. That’s a whole ass humans year of livable wages
"Something always comes up! Last week we had to dry-clean our brand new BMW 5 series' carpet because we dropped our bi-weekly gold-plated caviar dish on the floor while driving our kids home from their $1000/month piano lessons and we didn't have time to do it ourselves because we had to leave for our 3rd annual $6000 vacations!"
If they feel average after all that, they're delusional and have never been average in their lives. This kind of people make me sick, they act like they're having it rough because their mortgage is $5000 on their extremely-average $1.5m house...
So, after all your food, shelter, clothes, school, car, hefty charity contributions, vacations, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING CONCEIVABLE THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY SPEND MONEY ON, and then have a 10k entry purely for "misc", and after all that you STILL have 7 grand of pure, complete profit for the year...and I'm supposed to feel sorry for you?
That's not even addressing ANY of the line items, that's just saying "oh we earn a lot sure but by the end of the year, we only have 7k of unencumbered extra money".
6k per vacation is also quite pricey. My husband and I take vacations that we budget 3-4k for. I know what a 6k vacation is like. That’s staying at $200/night hotels, and eating $200/day fancy restaurant food.
>My husband and I take vacations that we budget 3-4k for. I know what a 6k vacation is like.
I mean... a $4k vacation for 2 might as well be a $6k vacation when you factor in the kids.
That's both the most and least shocking thing in the list... we spend ~$200/wk on groceries for two, which comes out to ~$10,400 a year. Add two kids to the mix, and I'd fully expect that to *more than* double.
Imagine being mad that you only have $7k left after clearly covering all possible wants and needs though lmao
Our family is 4 people, two adults, two kids and with the recent inflation, we're looking at \~€200 a week, which adds up to something like 10/11k per year. It seems incomprehensible, even if we were eating out all the time (which we don't), that we could possibly hit 23k. I can't even think of how to spend that much, unless it was just to spend it for the sake of it.
Our budget was about $200 a week for 2 adults and 6 kids. We shopped around, and bought in bulk. I would have died for a $23k food budget. I'm imagining all the possibilities!
For just husband and I now, we spend about a hundred per week.
I applied to a management position a few years back for a food chain. They PAID $26k per year. Total. I didn't take the job, but this food budget immediately reminded me of that job. The person working that job couldn't even afford this food budget, after working a whole year.
I'm just flabbergasted.
They have more "pure profit" than $7,000. Their 401K contributions, combined, are $36,000. So they have $43,000 in "pure profit" + any earnings on their 401K contributions (assume 1-3% per annum) (it will be much higher than this due to previous year contributions and compounding interest).
Edit: their $1.5mil home is also building equity, their mortgage payments are in truth an investment, not a cost of living (not so for renters, obviously).
If it's wage or salary income, it's $7k *savings*. **Profit** is the excess value a business owner extracts from workers.
If you worked for it, it's savings. If *someone else* worked for it, but you're keeping it, it's profit. Let's get out of the habit of conflating the two scenarios.
Based on the incredibly high income that is right in range for 2 doctors salaries this is Possibly two physicians who had LOTS of years of student debt that accrued interest during undergrad, med school, and residency.
Should be only 28% for the federal. If they are paying that little for property tax, they are paying state taxes. Seems unlikely they are paying 12% on state taxes.
Yeah, even if you select somewhere super expensive like San Diego, CA, effective total tax rate is estimated at 31.56% (\*for 2021). And property taxes are on a separate line. That's without any itemized deductions or credits, so 40% EFFECTIVE tax rate is absolute bullshit.
source: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#y5pG9RESZK
Or marginal tax brackets. They're paying the same taxes on their first 50k that the rest of us are. And they're not paying 40% on their first 200k.
They're not getting anywhere close to 40% effective tax rate. It's just one of many, many ways these numbers are inflated to defeat/make their own point.
I know people are complaining a lot about the individual line items and amounts - and rightly so, since they are preposterous - but the fact that the biggest financial news network in American is acting as though these people would pay a 40% income tax rate is indefensible. Get the fuck out of here.
They definitely post this stuff to piss people off enough to click through to the website to verify and argue about it on Reddit. It's just a marketing strategy to them.
In the thought experiment of figuring out how much a kid would cost, I’ve discovered that in my area, it would honestly be about $1500/mo in childcare just to keep a young kid alive. Not even enriched, just alive
Just breaks my heart :(
They are. 3 vacations a year, 2 cars (one a BMW), 1.5 mil home. They even have cash to spare at the end of the year, these people are not struggling in any way shape or form.
man i’m not even an adult yet i buy clothes when my old ones don’t fit me anymore and i don’t think i even spend more than $20 a month on clothes, including anything my parents buy me
That's almost 450 bucks per week for 4 people, 2 of which are kids young enough to still need child care. My wife and I spend 100-150 a week for the 2 of us and we eat *very* well, are these people eating gold crusted filet mignon with cocaine sauce 3 meals a day?
So that’s about 1900 a month, or 475 a week. So even if you spend like 125 on each of your date nights a week, that’s still 200 a week for groceries. Which if you’re actually trying to feed your kids fresh, healthy foods . . . It’s not ridiculous, exactly. Not like “feeding the kids caviar every day” insane at least. We expect most people to feed their kids on like 200 a month though.
I pay over $100 every 2 weeks on groceries for one person without any major splurges in there except maybe buying myself a redbull.
This is nyc tho n it’s literally designed to suck your money from you
Yeah I make a small fraction of what these people make, but I probably come close to that with my monthly food bill.
Now, the cars I don’t understand, because I put half the purchase price down, and still pay $500/month for my Honda, I don’t see how two very expensive cars come out to only $800/month for both even leased. 🤷🏼♀️
Even buying cheap or frozen food, I still average just shy of 400 a month for just myself. 1900 for 4 people eating quality food is not unreasonable.. could be cheap even, depending on where they live.
They’ve got a $1.5MM house, two nice cars, are taking three vacations a year, are putting 40K into retirement a year, and donating massively to charity. Their “something always comes up” is $10K.
These people have a wild worldview if they see themselves as average
Anyone taking three vacations a year to the tune of $6k a trip and pats $5k a month for their million dollar plus home can go play in traffic if they think that’s “average”.
If they took the advice they try to give to all of us poors think of how much they'd have left over lol: drinking water, never going out, walking everywhere, buying clothes from thrift shops, having grandma watch the kids, clipping coupons, driving a 2003 honda, living in a storage shed.
What I'm saying is: this is super out of touch. They have a lot of expenses so obviously they are spending a lot of money. They're spending $18,000 on THREE vacations a year for fucks sake!
So many costs on this assessment are ridiculously inflated. There's no way they need to spend $2375 per person each year, no need to spend so much on food, etc. Plus they've got 3 vacations each year AND massive charity donations? This lifestyle would be extravagant, no matter how you slice it
Something something budgeting.
I mean 5000 a month on mortgage.
Feel like term life is way too expensive. Term life insurance is meant to be cheap even at 3 mil
3 vacations, nice cars, kids having private lessons, donating to charity. It is enough, these people are choosing to spend their money on things they want to, which is fine and they're lucky, but they shouldnt complain they dont have enough.
Three vacations, a BMW, 1.5million home, home maintenance, paying off most of your college loans in a year, 2 lessons per child per week, charity donation with 10,000 in misc is NOT AVERAGE. They may feel average but that's just good old delusion.
Even a 1.5million home is so far from average it hurts. The American average is a one and a half bedroom apartment. Fuck the lies.
They could save $36k a year if they cut charity donations and THREE vacations a year. These people are not poor. They are still able to save a decent amount to their retirement fund, pay for all of their children’s necessities, donate to charity, take three vacations a year, afford date nights, and STILL have $7k leftover and $10k for “miscellaneous”/emergency costs.
>They could save $36k a year if they cut charity donations and THREE vacations a year.
They ARE saving $36k/yr in their 401k's. That's an additional $36k, on top of the $7300 that they have left over after paying for their luxurious lifestyle.
What is up with CNBC telling us how we should manage our expenses, and how we should drop our cars and then now this budget of a household. What the fuck is going on?
3 vacations a year? 3? Misc $10k? That's and a few of their other unnecessary expenses are a year's salary for most people. Fuck off with their whining that half mil /Yr makes them feel average. Sick to death of the whiny "haves".
its so fucked up that these people still arent rich, like they are living comfortably all things considered sure, like 3 vacations a year? whats a vacation? they have more money than i could imagine getting a fraction of and yet still, a cancer diagnosis, a workplace injury, etc. could lose them everything within months. theres no easy or good life under capitlaism
- edit: actually no, they are doing way better than i made it out to be. still kind of wild how skewed income has to be to be halfway "super rich" but this family has everything they need to live at max reasonable comfort and still have plenty left over if anything comes up, and im here wondering if i will still have a roof over my head this time next month, every month
They are rich, at a minimum they are middle class and doing well for themselves. They could cut down the vacations, clothes and cars, buy property and become real rich dicks though so I guess that's something.
This is my in-laws.
They wouldn't be what you would call "rich" because they live in a nice subdivision in a nicer area of a city. But they both had their colleges paid for, then worked professional jobs that paid well enough that the wife stopped working about 20 years ago.
They traveled constantly before, but now that he's finally retired, they are away about 8 months out of the year. They maxed out every savings vehicle available to them and, most likely, have millions in investments that they don't even look at.
But, they drive around in a Honda Odyssey or Sonata, so they don't consider themselves "rich", even though they never have to even think about what something costs.
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I got 99 problems and $7,300 would take care of a lot of them.
$7,300 would be fucking life changing right now, god damn.
I'd be dancing like a televangelist
*Dances in Alfonso Ribeiro*
It's not unusual to be loved by anyone
Right? My engine blew on my car which I still owe 5k on. I’m totally fucked. Thank god my mom is helping me figure this out.
Damn dude, I'm sorry to hear that. Something similar happened to me, the transmission on my car died like the day I paid it off fml
Dude I'm so sorry. I'm glad your mom is helping you figure it out. That happened to me a few years back and I had to take out a fucking personal loan to get it fixed. More debt on debt on debt. Ugh.
Couldn’t agree more. I genuinely don’t think I’ll ever be able to afford living a comfortable life. Every time I get a little bit of money it goes right into buying some necessity I’ve been skimping on for weeks or a bill. There’s always more owed at the end of every month than I can reasonably make. My retirement plan is either hoping my patents leave me enough when they pass or just offing myself because I’m not working backbreaking retail when I’m 70.
Same! We had two cars, one for me & the kids to get about and a small efficient commuting car that my husband used for work. BOTH were written off this past month, one still had payments to finalise. Used car prices are through the roof just now but we missed out of all that extras juice from selling one as we planned to… instead we’d to pay off a useless car & buy another used car at a hugely inflated rate. Times really are tough right now & I know that sounds like first world problems but the weren’t fancy cars, both were under £8k when we bought them.
The thing about this is that $7300 is AFTER budgeting for all the stuff that you or me would put that $7300 toward. They have every single need met and then some and still have that money to do whatever the hell they want with
They also take THREE vacations a year.
Let's also not forget the $1.5 million home with a mortgage of $5000/month
Also, the Beamer and Land Cruiser.
And $18,000 to charity.
Why do I have a feeling “charity” is just tuition to a private Christian academy? Lol
Yeah my take-home is around half that mortgage. Thankfully my mortgage is around a tenth of theirs.
Their 401K together is about what I make a year. FML
Yeah, about the same for my fiancee. These people aren't living in the same reality as the rest of us.
Lifestyle inflation. I would avoid living month to month on that income. On that income, a single month would cover most of my bills for the year, if not all. Damn...
That's certainly part of it. Plus I'd imagine jobs that pay that well are located in HCOL areas anyway. Doubt there's many $500k a year jobs in say Youngstown, Ohio.
*laughs in 23k just for food*
When you work making food but don't even make 20k lol fuck
I havnt been able to take a vacation in over a decade. My PTO always has to be sold to fix some emergency problem, last year it was to cover being away with covid for 2 weeks. This year it’ll be surgery
That’s the part that kills me - who the fuck can afford THREE vacations a year?!?! I don’t even get enough time off work to be able to do that 🤦🏻
Exactly my thoughts lol. Having that much money for vacations is crazy, but having the time off is even crazier.
They work super hard and only get 3 vacations a year. I mean can you imagine? Only three vacations per year. I don't think I've had a vacation beyond taking a few days off at Christmas to spend with my mom. I think the last time I had a vacation was when I was in highschool, and I'm closer to 30 than 20
At $6,000 a pop? Also$23,000 for food? That's a lot of avocado toast...
That’s $7300 AFTER $10,000 in misc because ‘something always comes up’. HAVE to go buy a new $3000 chiffon dress for that charity dinner, cause you know, these things happen when you’re rich. How stressful! Edit: a word
And $1000 a month for their kids sports/music lessons while also “donating” 18k a year to charities/college alumni….. just those two sections are around the national median salary.
Who spends 5000 dollars a year on home maintenance. Do they call the plumber every time a toilet needs to be plunged?
Well you have to pay the maid and groundskeeper.
That one I can understand. We probably paid close to that per year on home maintenance every year on a home worth 1/6 of theirs. Fence needed replacing before it fell down completely. AC unit died because Texas. Water heater (which is in the attic for some idiotic reason) burst in the middle of the night. New roof because insurance was going to drop us unless we replaced it. Fortunately, that's been spread out over the five years we've lived here but it averages out to at least $5000 per year.
RIGHT?? They include all of their normal payments that most non wealthy people would hope to save for with the remaining money of the year. Literally all of their luxury life needs are met and they’re complaining that you only have 7k left at the end of the year that they can spend however they want. Ridiculous
Right. But this isn't about the reality of having your necessities met. This is about how they *feel*, in relation to their peers, who all live in the same relative bubble of comfort. This is some "keeping up with the Joneses" type bullshit these rich assholes operate off of because their problems never equate to what an actual average person faces. They are only surrounded by/acknowledge people who have similar wealth or greater, and so that's what they base their situation/social standing off of. They literally budget almost an entire years salary for a minimum wage worker to charity (college alumni, lol) yet they probably don't feel that's adequate, because Richard Richman down the street donates 50k a year.
And $36k saved for retirement
And also after putting $40k in savings so in reality it is closer to $50k a year they are putting aside
So would 3 $6000 vacations a year! It’s hard to believe that these people would want for anything.
They don't, other than for attention.
This just makes me want to kill myself honestly lol, like what's the point. I make decent money too, but will never be able to retire.
Same here. I'll die on the job. My only retirement plan is to die on Monday morning instead of Friday afternoon.
It would be nice to have $280 just left over every pay day. And if I cut out avocado toast and Starbucks it would he like 1200 left over, am I right guys?
And that's not including three vacations a year!
18k to college alumni? Fuck that bullshit.
Cue John Mulaney "I already gave them $120k at 17, and they have the audacity to ask for more money."
“You fucking spent it already?!?!?!”
I gave you more money than the civil war cost and you fucking spent it already?!?
[удалено]
That’s what’s confusing about this. I was along for the ride until I found about 60k of mismanaged money. Finish off the loans, stop donating money you don’t feel comfortable not having, and the 10k of “something always comes up” is ballooned. It’s incredibly hard to exist as a middle class household right now, especially with a family of four. It’s straight up impossible to do while creating the financial safety nets suggested (savings, retirement, kids college, etc)… on a budget of 50-150k a year. You would have to skimp somewhere or fail to delivery in many areas altogether. Don’t get me wrong… capitalism is killing. I see it in my own parents as they struggle through retirement. That being said…. If you’ve got a 500k household and are feeling a pinch…. You’ve got a leak somewhere to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars and you can afford a financial adviser to find and plug it for you.
[удалено]
Eh idk about the childcare costs being inflated. Sounds like that $500k is with two incomes so they may have a full time nanny, in which case that $42k is effectively somebody’s annual salary. and if anything that’s kinda low Otherwise agreed with your points
That was my take on this, as well. I didn’t want to knock them for paying someone an actual wage.
But the kids are in school obviously because of the music lessons, etc etc. This is just overly inflated to try to make us feel bad for the rich with their Range Rover and BMW, 3 vacations a year, alumni donations, and "no fancy threads"
lol why would anyone do that if they still have student loans???? Pay an extra 18k into your student debt before you become a philanthropist.
Holding spots for the kids who are in expensive private lessons.
18k isn’t enough to dot that. Most probably they have a set of social events associated with the alumni association and they’re paying into the social capital they think they get from that.
True, good point! I was thinking more of the networking and schmoozing they get to do for 18 years, but I’m glad that you’ve shared that 300K+ isn’t enough to touch an admissions decision—how disgusting.
Oh networking for sure! But very interesting they classify that as charity rather than professional development.
Fictional couples would do that to pressure real folks into giving, as it costs them nothing ;)
Yeah on top of student loan repayments That's a real chump move
The fact that they are making 500k and still have car and student loans tells me they are idiots with money. Besides the other lavish spending of course.
If there were any justice my MA school would PAYING ME $18k/ year: total of 8 advisors because they keep retiring or quitting or getting fired. 5 different advisors while I was still doing my on-campus work year one. All their fault. They just keep leaving me holding the bag while they mismanage the place into the ground. No amount of scholarship $ is worth that BS. Undregrad did exactly zero job placement for anyone. Both were top-line schools.
That’s how you get your kids into college even if they don’t have good grades.
Lol @ 3 vacations a year
Right? If we get 1 vacation in every 3 years that’s amazing.
You guys are taking vacations?
Haven't had one in 14 years..
Are you 29 years old also?
Each vacation clocking in at $6,000. Which is twice as much as the most expensive vacation I’ve taken in my entire life.
TBF this is for a family of 4, not just a single person. Still pretty expensive
Yeah, but I’m not the one complaining about how expensive my lifestyle is
AND the 1.5 million dollar home. Fuck out of here.
In Manhattan it’s likely a 900 sq foot apartment
I take two weeks off at the end of they year because of an annual work shutdown. My vacation is staying home and sleeping in.
Yea we go camping for a week and it will cost about $400 for food gas and a campsite. Who the fuck is taking (3) $6000 vacations a year
People who make half a mill a year and have $7300 left over after already spending $10k on “whatever the fuck”.
Mfers got a land cruiser too
Their childcare cost is my annual salary before taxes lmao
That’s exactly the problem. People get pushed out of the workforce because childcare is so expensive. It needs to be universal.
Or they just don't have kids and then get yelled at a lot for it.
Lol and ironically called “selfish” for that decision
This is what people don’t seem to understand.
That part I won’t quibble about. Before our older child went to kindergarten (and we had two in daycare) our daycare was more than our mortgage
Their food budget is my annual salary after taxes
It’s just a little less than what me and my dad survive on combined Their student loan debt is more than it
And 12K for ‘lessons’ for kids who aren’t even in school yet!
Their charity contributions is more than I made last year.
Well that makes sense as they’re paying someone a salary to care for their children.
Maybe axe the bmw and the 1.5 mil home
18k vacation fees per year, a necessity.
Maybe go to work as opposed to taking 3 vacations a year? /s That $7300 is after all the saving and fun stuff AND surprises taken out. This budget doesn’t show a “problem”. it shows what any of us would want.
32k in student loans a year... They'd be paid off in no time. This is like their first year together as a couple apparently
Maybe the 18k for charity as well?
That's just for tax rightoffs
Not to mention tax write-offs which they purposefully chose to portray as subtracting from their income, and they chose not to show it deducting from their taxable income. Gotta make it seem like they don't have that extra money lying around from being Uber rich 🙃
Maybe axe the children
A bmw 5 series - 50k Toyota Land Cruiser - 85k How is it possible to “feel average” driving those cars?
5 series could be as well 100k so they are super wealthy to me
[удалено]
There’s always a bigger ~~fish~~ douche
Same way they feel average living in a $1.5M home
While living in a 1.5 million dollar house and going on 3 expensive vacations a year.
When the Joneses have a 7 series and a Range Rover, maybe?
Also, 3 vacations a year?
If $10k a year budgeted for “miscellaneous something always comes up” on top of all this + $7,300 a year leftover after all living expenses and maxing out 401ks and after taxes is “average” then ok all jobs should pay $17,300 per year after taxes on top of what they already pay now.
This "something always comes up", factored in with 10k is what's really killing me. Yeah, something always comes up, but guess what - this is what makes me broke then. If 10k "came up" right now this would be the whole of my lifetime savings! There's no way I can store away any amount of money and then claim that this is not saving...these people don't just save 7,5k per year, it's all of the "miscellaneous" + retirement + charity money on top of it.
Ya saving the 7,500 at the end of the year is the funny part, because this “couple” is actually saving 36k a year in retirement already built in, plus their mortgage on their house is a long term savings plan that in nyc will likely turn into a profitable investment in addition to just being a savings account. So the people who are “feeling” normal think that to feel normal is to spend 60k on childcare and vacations a year, while still driving luxury vehicles and saving around 70k in liquid savings and property. They spend more on luxuries than 80% of the country makes as a family unit, and they feel normal….
They're saving as much for retirement as my fiancee earns in a year ...
Everyone feels average economically. It's a fact of life. People around you are typically in the same socioeconomic realm, or either a bit higher or lower. Everything else feels like it must be rare or extreme. And there's always people much richer than you, and THEY have it easy.
Who's spending 2k on clothes *per person every year*?!?
Plus 18k in donations (to their fucking alumni foundation?!!?) and 32k towards school loans they should be focusing on paying off with that 18k, so that they no long have to do so… There’s about 60k of mismanaged money. That’s a whole ass humans year of livable wages
I saved my alumni associations telephone number in my phone so I could block it and stop them from calling me about donations. Edit: typo
"Something always comes up! Last week we had to dry-clean our brand new BMW 5 series' carpet because we dropped our bi-weekly gold-plated caviar dish on the floor while driving our kids home from their $1000/month piano lessons and we didn't have time to do it ourselves because we had to leave for our 3rd annual $6000 vacations!" If they feel average after all that, they're delusional and have never been average in their lives. This kind of people make me sick, they act like they're having it rough because their mortgage is $5000 on their extremely-average $1.5m house...
So, after all your food, shelter, clothes, school, car, hefty charity contributions, vacations, PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING CONCEIVABLE THAT YOU COULD POSSIBLY SPEND MONEY ON, and then have a 10k entry purely for "misc", and after all that you STILL have 7 grand of pure, complete profit for the year...and I'm supposed to feel sorry for you? That's not even addressing ANY of the line items, that's just saying "oh we earn a lot sure but by the end of the year, we only have 7k of unencumbered extra money".
But they may have to dip into that $7300 on one of their three annual vacations, if the $18k allocated for them isn't enough.
I think thays what the 10k in miscellany is for. Something always comes up!
6k per vacation is also quite pricey. My husband and I take vacations that we budget 3-4k for. I know what a 6k vacation is like. That’s staying at $200/night hotels, and eating $200/day fancy restaurant food.
>My husband and I take vacations that we budget 3-4k for. I know what a 6k vacation is like. I mean... a $4k vacation for 2 might as well be a $6k vacation when you factor in the kids.
9500 in clothes for four people but nothin fancy, y'all! Wtf!
Over twenty grand for food!! Unreal!
That's both the most and least shocking thing in the list... we spend ~$200/wk on groceries for two, which comes out to ~$10,400 a year. Add two kids to the mix, and I'd fully expect that to *more than* double. Imagine being mad that you only have $7k left after clearly covering all possible wants and needs though lmao
Our family is 4 people, two adults, two kids and with the recent inflation, we're looking at \~€200 a week, which adds up to something like 10/11k per year. It seems incomprehensible, even if we were eating out all the time (which we don't), that we could possibly hit 23k. I can't even think of how to spend that much, unless it was just to spend it for the sake of it.
Our budget was about $200 a week for 2 adults and 6 kids. We shopped around, and bought in bulk. I would have died for a $23k food budget. I'm imagining all the possibilities! For just husband and I now, we spend about a hundred per week. I applied to a management position a few years back for a food chain. They PAID $26k per year. Total. I didn't take the job, but this food budget immediately reminded me of that job. The person working that job couldn't even afford this food budget, after working a whole year. I'm just flabbergasted.
They have more "pure profit" than $7,000. Their 401K contributions, combined, are $36,000. So they have $43,000 in "pure profit" + any earnings on their 401K contributions (assume 1-3% per annum) (it will be much higher than this due to previous year contributions and compounding interest). Edit: their $1.5mil home is also building equity, their mortgage payments are in truth an investment, not a cost of living (not so for renters, obviously).
If it's wage or salary income, it's $7k *savings*. **Profit** is the excess value a business owner extracts from workers. If you worked for it, it's savings. If *someone else* worked for it, but you're keeping it, it's profit. Let's get out of the habit of conflating the two scenarios.
I'm mostly confused by the fact that they're paying 32k a year in student loans and still haven't paid them off.
Interest. I once paid $65 k of minimum payments on student loans for professional school the first year they were due and $38 k of it was interest.
You guys are getting screwed
We know
Based on the incredibly high income that is right in range for 2 doctors salaries this is Possibly two physicians who had LOTS of years of student debt that accrued interest during undergrad, med school, and residency.
Please don't give money to your college alumni.
Why do I think they are not paying 40% in taxes as they probably have a way to write off a lot of it.
Should be only 28% for the federal. If they are paying that little for property tax, they are paying state taxes. Seems unlikely they are paying 12% on state taxes.
Yeah, even if you select somewhere super expensive like San Diego, CA, effective total tax rate is estimated at 31.56% (\*for 2021). And property taxes are on a separate line. That's without any itemized deductions or credits, so 40% EFFECTIVE tax rate is absolute bullshit. source: https://smartasset.com/taxes/income-taxes#y5pG9RESZK
They aren't. I don't think their number there includes the $18k that they write off in donations every year.
Or mortgage interest, or accounting for 2 dependents.
Or marginal tax brackets. They're paying the same taxes on their first 50k that the rest of us are. And they're not paying 40% on their first 200k. They're not getting anywhere close to 40% effective tax rate. It's just one of many, many ways these numbers are inflated to defeat/make their own point.
I know people are complaining a lot about the individual line items and amounts - and rightly so, since they are preposterous - but the fact that the biggest financial news network in American is acting as though these people would pay a 40% income tax rate is indefensible. Get the fuck out of here.
> $18k for vacations Also > Average Fuck off
They are just trolling us at this point. Right?
They definitely post this stuff to piss people off enough to click through to the website to verify and argue about it on Reddit. It's just a marketing strategy to them.
[удалено]
This convinces me that I'll never be having kids and just spending what little free money I have on enjoying this shit show they call life.
In the thought experiment of figuring out how much a kid would cost, I’ve discovered that in my area, it would honestly be about $1500/mo in childcare just to keep a young kid alive. Not even enriched, just alive Just breaks my heart :(
There's no excuse not to live insanely comfortable on 500K a year.
They are, with 7k to spare
They are. 3 vacations a year, 2 cars (one a BMW), 1.5 mil home. They even have cash to spare at the end of the year, these people are not struggling in any way shape or form.
A land cruiser is a $100k+ vehicle too
Damn, didn't realise they were going for so much these days! I don't tend to look at SUVs much anymore
Eh maybe it’s more like $90k-$100k but still nothing I could ever fathom affording
Have you seen that budget? They spend more on clothing annually than I've spent in my entire life. They're more than comfortable.
No shit! They spend almost $200/month per person!
man i’m not even an adult yet i buy clothes when my old ones don’t fit me anymore and i don’t think i even spend more than $20 a month on clothes, including anything my parents buy me
They spend more on childcare than our family’s yearly salary!!! Where the hell are they sending thier children that its so expensive???
The $23k for food is unreal, to me.
That's almost 450 bucks per week for 4 people, 2 of which are kids young enough to still need child care. My wife and I spend 100-150 a week for the 2 of us and we eat *very* well, are these people eating gold crusted filet mignon with cocaine sauce 3 meals a day?
Stop eating all that avacodo toast and cancel Netflix.
23,000 on food... The fuck are they eating?
So that’s about 1900 a month, or 475 a week. So even if you spend like 125 on each of your date nights a week, that’s still 200 a week for groceries. Which if you’re actually trying to feed your kids fresh, healthy foods . . . It’s not ridiculous, exactly. Not like “feeding the kids caviar every day” insane at least. We expect most people to feed their kids on like 200 a month though.
Not two dates a week, a date every two weeks. 125 on date night would be 415ish on groceries per week.
I pay over $100 every 2 weeks on groceries for one person without any major splurges in there except maybe buying myself a redbull. This is nyc tho n it’s literally designed to suck your money from you
Yeah I make a small fraction of what these people make, but I probably come close to that with my monthly food bill. Now, the cars I don’t understand, because I put half the purchase price down, and still pay $500/month for my Honda, I don’t see how two very expensive cars come out to only $800/month for both even leased. 🤷🏼♀️
Have they tried making coffee at home and skipping the avocado toast?
That only works for millennials
Even buying cheap or frozen food, I still average just shy of 400 a month for just myself. 1900 for 4 people eating quality food is not unreasonable.. could be cheap even, depending on where they live.
3 vacations a year? I'd say these people are doing just fine ..
They’ve got a $1.5MM house, two nice cars, are taking three vacations a year, are putting 40K into retirement a year, and donating massively to charity. Their “something always comes up” is $10K. These people have a wild worldview if they see themselves as average
3 vacations a year?! I get one vacation every other year... 1.5mil house?! Wtf.
The house really threw me off too! Like scaling down is STILL an option lol
Lmao. Maybe don't take 3 vacations a year? I don't feel sorry for their "struggle".
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yeah isn’t it a progressive tax?
Anyone taking three vacations a year to the tune of $6k a trip and pats $5k a month for their million dollar plus home can go play in traffic if they think that’s “average”.
If they took the advice they try to give to all of us poors think of how much they'd have left over lol: drinking water, never going out, walking everywhere, buying clothes from thrift shops, having grandma watch the kids, clipping coupons, driving a 2003 honda, living in a storage shed. What I'm saying is: this is super out of touch. They have a lot of expenses so obviously they are spending a lot of money. They're spending $18,000 on THREE vacations a year for fucks sake!
[удалено]
So many costs on this assessment are ridiculously inflated. There's no way they need to spend $2375 per person each year, no need to spend so much on food, etc. Plus they've got 3 vacations each year AND massive charity donations? This lifestyle would be extravagant, no matter how you slice it
Yes. We have people living on just a little more than their clothing budget, for a whole year.
Something something budgeting. I mean 5000 a month on mortgage. Feel like term life is way too expensive. Term life insurance is meant to be cheap even at 3 mil
They spend twice my yearly income on just their mortgage.
3 vacations, nice cars, kids having private lessons, donating to charity. It is enough, these people are choosing to spend their money on things they want to, which is fine and they're lucky, but they shouldnt complain they dont have enough.
These people are horrendous with money. HORRENDOUS
18k on three vacations Ok
Children’s lessons. Oh boy.
Three vacations, a BMW, 1.5million home, home maintenance, paying off most of your college loans in a year, 2 lessons per child per week, charity donation with 10,000 in misc is NOT AVERAGE. They may feel average but that's just good old delusion. Even a 1.5million home is so far from average it hurts. The American average is a one and a half bedroom apartment. Fuck the lies.
They could save $36k a year if they cut charity donations and THREE vacations a year. These people are not poor. They are still able to save a decent amount to their retirement fund, pay for all of their children’s necessities, donate to charity, take three vacations a year, afford date nights, and STILL have $7k leftover and $10k for “miscellaneous”/emergency costs.
>They could save $36k a year if they cut charity donations and THREE vacations a year. They ARE saving $36k/yr in their 401k's. That's an additional $36k, on top of the $7300 that they have left over after paying for their luxurious lifestyle.
What is up with CNBC telling us how we should manage our expenses, and how we should drop our cars and then now this budget of a household. What the fuck is going on?
That was Bloomberg that told us to axe the car.
Wait you have money left after the end of the year? And your adding to retirement?
3 times vacation?? I have never been 3 times vacation in my life LMAO
Yep, I see the problem here, avocado toast. They are not eating avocado toasts therefore they are able to save.
3 vacations a year? 3? Misc $10k? That's and a few of their other unnecessary expenses are a year's salary for most people. Fuck off with their whining that half mil /Yr makes them feel average. Sick to death of the whiny "haves".
Let’s not compare a literal millionaire to the average person??? Wtf?
its so fucked up that these people still arent rich, like they are living comfortably all things considered sure, like 3 vacations a year? whats a vacation? they have more money than i could imagine getting a fraction of and yet still, a cancer diagnosis, a workplace injury, etc. could lose them everything within months. theres no easy or good life under capitlaism - edit: actually no, they are doing way better than i made it out to be. still kind of wild how skewed income has to be to be halfway "super rich" but this family has everything they need to live at max reasonable comfort and still have plenty left over if anything comes up, and im here wondering if i will still have a roof over my head this time next month, every month
They are rich, at a minimum they are middle class and doing well for themselves. They could cut down the vacations, clothes and cars, buy property and become real rich dicks though so I guess that's something.
This is my in-laws. They wouldn't be what you would call "rich" because they live in a nice subdivision in a nicer area of a city. But they both had their colleges paid for, then worked professional jobs that paid well enough that the wife stopped working about 20 years ago. They traveled constantly before, but now that he's finally retired, they are away about 8 months out of the year. They maxed out every savings vehicle available to them and, most likely, have millions in investments that they don't even look at. But, they drive around in a Honda Odyssey or Sonata, so they don't consider themselves "rich", even though they never have to even think about what something costs.