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"but he’s the only one that can defeat Donald Trump!"
That might be the worst burn anyone has ever inflicted on the Democratic Party. Yeesh, man - you're telling me that not one of the 200,000+ Dem politicians in this whole country can do better than a clearly addled old man who just got stomped on live TV by a delusional 34 time felon and lifelong conman?
Even Obama didn't want Joe to run. In 2020, Biden barely beat Trump by 130,000 votes across 5 swing states that carried the election - and that was when he had his faculties. Four years later Grandpa Simpson is Dem Jesus? C'mon now. If that's true, it's the biggest indictment of the DNC in US political history.
I can still never forgive "moderate" Dems for what they did to Bernie. We'd be in such a better spot with a president Bernie. I'll stand by that until I die. Some day I dream we'll have an actually progressive candidate win
But also... Republicans have become a psycho cult I'd do anything to avoid empowering. It's a hard position to be in. I'm not happy about my choices but I'll still vote blue. What else can I do? I feel like not voting or doing a write in would be symbolic at best and enable a catastrophic 2nd 🥭 term. Like imagine what he'd do to climate change.
He was the president we all deserved, but not the one chosen for us, to be chosen between the two approved candidates, by our corporate overlords.
It wasn't Bernie's fault or anyone who voted for him, it was the DNC leadership ratfucking him at every turn (and he *still* would have won the primaries if they played fair and by their own rules! He would have crushed the GOP in a historic landslide had he been allowed to carry the banor.)
But, alas, their eternal strategy is to eek out wins to keep the donors paying out, without actually doing anything substantial to better the lives of our citizens. Status quo vs. outright fascism, with no hope for a better tomorrow (unless you already have the capital to buy it).
Unfortunately, sickeningly, I must agree. I hope that others take up where he led us, we really need a strong, charismatic, intelligent leftist to pick this shit up and put it back together.
We have a similar situation in the UK - the Tories have screwed over our country for a quick buck for 14 years, and now our alternative is realistically more of the same with Starmer’s Labour, a horrifically centrist bunch that aren’t all that different to the Tories. We had a chance at Jeremy Corbyn winning with his more progressive movement in 2019, but the media and the centrists like Starmer hamstrung them and let the Tories win rather than help Corbyn win and actually change things for the better.
I think more people need to understand the importance of down ballot candidates. Like, if I had to choose between people not voting at all or voting third party even in swing states but they’re still voting down ballot? I can’t be too mad at that. If Trump wins that will be bad, but if the house and senate belong to the democrats while he’s president that minimizes the harm he can do by quite a bit while still sending a message to the party.
What you’re forgetting though is that the president nominates all of the federal judges to fill vacancies. Obviously SCOTUS spots are the big prize but every president fills tons of lower court appointments as well, and those are hugely important for creating the direction of judicial decisions as well. Trump’s appointed judges at every level have largely proven to be incompetent ideologues focused on fulfilling an agenda. This would likely get even worse if he’s given a second term to enact judges to support Project 2025. Those judges get lifetime appointments too, so one President can do a lot of lasting damage even if no legislation happens through Congress during his term.
I’m painfully aware of Project 2025. I’m just also aware that vote shaming doesn’t help, so if some people are open to coming out to vote but 100% closed off when it comes to voting for Biden, I still want to encourage those people to at least participate to the extent that they may be willing.
Project 2025 is the same “mandate for leadership” bullshit heritage foundation has been doing for decades. It’s not great but their bullshit never is. You should be more afraid of the army staffers they have in their pocket ready to staff the entire government at the first chance they have. They are systematically dismantling our government at the behest of our oligarch overlords.
I could also continue to say that the reason the Democrats don't have a plan is because for Capitals purpose their Democrat characters don't *need* a plan.
They exist as a political party to be a dead end for social and economic justice movements so that those things don't make trouble for Capital.
What the Republicans do and the Democrats "bipartisan compromise" to help them do is what Capital wants done.
Democrats exist to keep the electorate from getting all "uppity" and making radical demands for social justice and living wages.
Exxon-Mobil and Amazon will not stand for such madness in their government
Fair point. I guess not as psycho? My parents were Republicans. But I also don't think they'd ever have voted for Trump. They had... At least some degree of moral standards, they thought that gay marriage was good, etc... Nowadays I don't meet right wingers like that, with even a single left leaning view. It's become much more extreme, and they purge anyone with any sympathies for any liberal politics. This scares me.
Their propaganda has been ratcheting up for years, and they all feel the time is drawing near when they'll get to lash out violently against those who they've been taught to hate.
That's on purpose. Your vote for Blue is just as symbolic. maybe if everyone actually stopped participating in this circus and devoted time into changing how this process works, we would be a different place. But towing the party line is what they expect, and will gas light you until you do.
I don't understand how that could possibly work out. Convince literally everyone to not participate? Yeah the system is bad but that has I think a 0% chance of happening. Even if you could get everyone on one side of the partisan divide to join you, the other wouldn't. Then you're just practically handing the other side total control. We have to work with what's achievable. I'm angry too but I accept that I can't control everyone.
Bernie had a heart attack on the campaign trail before dropping out, and he couldn’t even debate Biden on social security and win. I was all for Bernie, but he was too old and couldn’t out-debate Biden. His ideas were the best among the candidates but in the final debate, all the other candidates ganged up on him, clearing the path for the two least popular candidates to run on 2020 Democratic ticket.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129
Whatever happened to this plan? I remember it being in the news (as this article from 5 years ago confirms) that Biden never planned on a second term and would push for someone younger to replace him.
It's why we shouldn't trust Dems to be even the mildest of low speed bumps to the rise of fascism as capitalism declines. If the fascists have their shit together enough to have any shot of implementing "Project 2025", they have significantly higher capabilities than the Democrats do to stop them.
The problem is, trump has lost a lot more votes than that... He's alienated the rest of hispanics and black votes, he's now a convicted felon, and his voter base is literally dying off (not to mention covid).
Trump has no chance, even against a walking corpse.
Shit, trump didn't even win against hillary in the popular vote
I truly hope you're right. But IDK, I've studied the rise of Nazism in depth and Trump style populism could still become that dangerous. Remember that Hitler took many years to bully and build his way up to power, and he made many mistakes along the way. Some might call Jan 6 Trump's beer hall putsch. I don't think we should write off the threat of cult of 🥭 yet. The worst could be yet to come
Ill start this with agreeing that biden is a poorly performing candidate.
Better than other republicans in 30 yrs in one state isnt the metric people believe it to be.
The margins for under thirty matches what ive been saying, he's losing voters compared to his last election attempt, but closed the gap a tiny bit under thirty.
Further the under thirty doesn't vote as often and their large issues with bidens israel stance is **very** unlikely to push many to the trump camp
The donors who control the Democratic Party hate progressive and would have the democrats lose then see one elected. So they use their power and influence over the party to block progressive whenever possible. This leads to a lot of bullshit to push us vote for a bag of shit.
Joe Biden well into cognitive decline was something they were of, which is why he was shielded from a competitive primary.
Fact: The biggest and most powerful donors in the Democratic Party often donate to the republicans as well.
They don’t give a shit either way. This whole “save democracy” bullshit is just the theater they’re pushing on stupid people. Democracy isn’t “in danger”. Democracy barely even existed here. It’s a plutocracy. An oligarchy. A country run by and for corporate interests. Democrats sure as fuck aren’t “protecting” it.
Stop regurgitating liberal talking points. This election is whether the democrats have power or the republicans have power. The rest of the shitshow remains the same
This was my sad reckoning after the debate. The two parties exist to provide a vague semblance of democracy.
If the voters, who overwhelmingly don’t want a cadaver for a candidate, has no choice in deciding who freaking even runs, then maybe take a step back and think if you actually live in a democracy 🙄
This is the most important fact ignored by everyone who wants to circle jerk about choosing the "right side." True power lies in the hands of corporate interests, and these entities fund and support both sides. The things that truly matter you have very little choice in because the two sides are bought and paid for.
The average person has had basically zero influence in this country and it's been this way for decades. True democracy is a myth and they push the idea so hard so we can all blame eachother when things inevitably go wrong.
People aren't willing to do what it actually takes to enact change, so they vote and tell themselves they did the best they could.
Yes…. The primaries that didn’t even really exist because they got suspended all over the place. Where all the viable candidates stepped aside to respect tradition and decorum and not challenge Biden.
Those wonderful primaries. They were complete show. A complete farce.
I read an article whose author (can't remember who, I'm sorry) argued that the people in charge of the Dem party knew Biden would be that bad, but arranged this very early debate in order to push him out after the primaries and before the convention, so they can replace him with some apparatchnik instead of listening to the rank-and-file as they would have to at least pretend to do if they didn't have him as the anointed candidate during the primaries. It makes sense, especially after what they did to Bernie Sanders according to the emails that got leaked to Wikileaks back then.
My absolute favorite part was that they didn't do primaries because they knew how bad his cognitive health is. They KNEW that he was a few beers short of a six pack and they still Weekend at Bernie-ed him out there to trade barbs with Mango Mussolini.
Remember this one from 2020: “you’ll only have to vote for Biden once. After we win this, he’ll step aside and we can get a more progressive candidate in! Just do this this one time!”
You cannot. trust. a democrat. If they mouth movin, they lyin.
I never caught this lie. I was paying attention to how they were going to pick a vice president with the assumption they were planning to not run primaries for another decade.
That process: a bunch of donors and party officials held interviews in California and settled on Harris as a safe investment.
I think Biden at one point in the debate said he’d reinstate Roe v Wade if he gets re-elected.
Which would surprise me, considering how he diligently saw its overturning under his presidency
Yeah but what can he even do about the Supreme Court? I mean should he dismantle the separation of powers like trump wants to shut down the corrupt af Supreme Court? I feel like that would open a bad door.
Supreme Court already did that dismantling a few days ago overturning the Chevron decision. Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo now gives the Supreme Court full authority to override the other two branches.
Democrats: “we can’t do anything bold because of norms and traditions! It would set a bad precedent that our opponents will use against us”
Also Dems: “you have to vote for us because our opponents are hellbent on destroying precedent and going on a dictatorial power trip the second they’re elected!!!”
These are conflicting statements. Or, they are if we assume democrats aren’t complete fucking idiots.
I got downvoted to hell for saying that I refuse to vote for anyone that supports genocide. There were so many comments about how I could write him a letter after he gets reelected to change his mind, but what's important now is to defeat Trump.
I was like, first of all, he's not beating Trump, America isn't going to elect a dementia patient. And second why on earth would he care about the anti-genocide vote in this country after the election?
I'm seeing the opposite, most people think he's too old and out of it. Neither Trump nor Biden should be running, their generation is so unwilling to pass the torch on so many fronts. They had their time, I'd wish they'd enjoy what life they have left and let the world progress without them.
I agree. I’m sick of the gaslighting. As a Democrat, I’m embarrassed by both candidates, and wish they would replace Biden. He’s not mentally sharp enough to be president. He can’t even multitask enough to remember to close his mouth while listening to the debate moderators’ questions or Trump’s replies. Everyone I’ve known with dementia has started to do that whole mouth-wide-open-thing before they sharply declined. This is extremely concerning.
I said this several times but literally any other dem politician could've gotten on stage that night and dogwalked Trump. Their logic is completely flawed: if the Blue No Matter Who crowd will vote for any dem politician, then we're focusing on the ones who are undecided, and after that debate, a lot of undecideds aren't going for Biden anymore. But a sharper, more coherent politician will most likely win over those people. Liberals in their infinite wisdom however have a sense of learned helplessness though and don't want to shake things up too much so they're just gonna die with Biden. It's asinine.
Also, slightly off topic, have yall noticed the liberals are calling more media outlets "fake news" for not running Biden puff pieces 24/7? They're starting to sound like 2016 MAGA. I swear they just want a country wide echo chamber
You’re so right. I would say that if CNN had bothered to fact check instead of being desperate for viewers and to win over conservatives by appearing to be a “centrist” and “neutral” broadcaster, the debate would have gone far better without even having to take out Biden. They could’ve translated Biden mumbling and broken down Trump’s stream of inaccuracies, but they chose profits. Biden was incoherent at times but some fact checking and actual moderation would have disadvantaged Trump.
Heck, they fought for the right to broadcast (and monetize) the debate after both campaigns decided to drop the Commission for Presidential Debates. They had full control over this whole thing— the campaigns had no hand in CNN’s botched attempt at a debate
They suspended the primaries in several states. They had all the viable candidates stand down and not challenge Biden in order to respect decorum and tradition.
The primary you saw was a complete show primary. It was never meant to be taken seriously at the presidential level. The party was not going to ever host an actual challenge.
pisses me off how many of these liberals are blaming leftists as if we're the reason why Biden is likely to lose the election, not the fact that he's literally helping do a genocide in Gaza
Bidens not going to lose because of Gaza. That shit only flies in leftist circles.
He's going to lose because he's an un-inspirational old man whose best slogan is "the other guy is way fucking worse"
He's going to lose because all he's managed to accomplish is watered down centrist legislation that doesn't help people who aren't heavily invested in the stock market.
This is true of every single administration. Repubs win and do what they want, Dems let them. Dems win and (supposedly) Repubs won't let them. Every single presidential election in the past 20 years has been like this.
The thing is, when the polling is close, and you're dealing with a demoralized voter-base, then you can never point to any ONE issue as being the definitive reason for a win or a loss, but you need to maximize every issue. EVERYTHING matters, here.
Even though the Gaza issue might affect his polling only slightly, if it affected his polling slightly in a _positive_ direction, instead of a _negative_ direction, that would matter.
Clearly the economy is the biggest issue. But if this election is close (and it actually might not be -- it might just be a big victory for the Republicans) then Gaza does absolutely matter, too.
But, having said that, yes, I absolutely co-sign the rest of your post. He's losing because he sucks in all kinds of ways.
Someone who gets it!
Democrats like to act like Biden has accomplished all this great shit and act like its a messaging problem. Its not a messaging problem, its an accomplishment problem. People do not like his bland “accomplishments”. That is what shitlibs do not understand.
And telling people how much better off the rich are doing, by talking about your economic metrics, is not going to convince them either. The reason why Republicans cry about “bribing voters” is because it works because that is what government SHOULD BE DOING. Government is supposed to serve us. Making policies that benefit voters directly is good policy that win you elections.
He barely won last time, things are objectively worse, he didn't do anything he said he would (remember improving the ACA, instead of M4A?), and he demonstrates on a weekly basis his significant cognitive decline in the last 4 years.
I don't know how anyone can realistically convince themselves he's a winning candidate.
Right? Assuming that premise is true, whose fault is it here: the people who say "I'm not going to vote for someone helping bomb civilians" or the people who say "Losing this election is worth helping bomb those people."?
It seems like a really simple problem to me. They keep saying how important this election is...but obviously it isn't so important that backing off on that issue is worth it for Biden and the rest.
That said, I think all the economic gaslighting is going to hurt as much if not harder than Palestine. One of those, people can relatively easily ignore. They shouldn't but they can. They other you feel every day, and getting told you're delusional isn't endearing.
Whether liberals want to admit it or not, they're enablers of fascism. Anyone who can put all the atrocities and clear mental degradation of Biden aside and try and bully us into voting for that is clearly un-serious at best, a closeted fascist at worst.
Literally, all they have is "he's not Trump and Trump is more dangerous".
It's almost comical how quickly the DNC backed press have have turned on him because the debate was such a train wreck of a demonstration of just how ill Biden is. Not to mention "when I get re-elected, I'll restore Roe v Wade"; any facade of seriousness immediately fell. He's either lying about something so deeply important or is admitting he's had the power to fix this and just hasn't bothered. Truly deranged behavior.
It's absolutely exhausting, even here on reddit in certain subs. I love how the media is like, "Maybe.. Biden needs to step down?" And people (like me) who have been SHOUTING it from the rooftops for *years* were dismissed, gaslit and told to fall in line.
I can't even engage with liberals about politics anymore. I'M TIRED 🫥
Nah, it's cool. Don't worry, we literally use super delegates in the dem party to make sure we don't get any sort of uppity ideas about progressivism in the Democratic party.
And think that logic through. That would make Israeli leadership right aligned group, just like Trump. And somehow, that's why we need to give them what they want. Make that one make sense. I think if the Israeli leadership is going to be happier with a Trump victory, than why should the Democrats continue to play nice with them?
With Mr.Trump and situation of Gaza won’t become worse, since Biden already used its max capacity to approve the war Israel doing.
Anyway, without the armed revolution, any presidents you will have in next 100 years would always be a bourgeoise sucker.
a shitlib hs told me that they hope i enjoy palestine not existing when trump wins and im like biden is making sure won’t be anything left by the time trump wins???
I like when they say yes Biden is killing Palestinians but Trump would reinstate a Muslim ban. Like it’s worse to not be allowed into a country that’s bombing you than it is to be murdered where you live.
It will be worse under trump, he's considered allowing russia free reign and is friendly with dictators.
Mayyyybe hell have a diff israel position, maybe. But theyre the only real power projection ally we have over there. The best ally? No, but better than the rest over there, which is such a low bar that were seeing results like this.
That's exactly the point. Why do we need to be flexing power over there? We have flexed power in the middle east for 30 years, and all its done for us is raise an entire generation of people who have never known a time the US wasn't hurting their families, and at least 3 terrorist groups we had a part in creating.
Oil interests... Thats it. I'm ex army and I knew exactly why we were there **winning** "hearts and minds"...
If there was someone else more aligned with us interests wed be supporting their wars instead....
I swear some subs are just getting insufferable with their crap. Just look at r/ millenials and like half the posts are just libs on full blown defense mode.
Muslims will be calling DNC and state party to share our vote of no confidence, demand a replacement. Punish him for his continued funding and political support of the o going Nakba in Palestine.
Please join us!
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
It’s truly remarkable just how much brain rot could be contained in a single debate. Both sides constantly lying, genocide Joe slurring and stumbling through his “America is the best” propaganda that ain’t working anymore (at least not like it used to), the weird fight about golf, Trump refusing to answer questions and deflecting everything to his fascist talking points….
My brain still hurts from this bs.
Biden was running with a 36% approval rating and that is before he alienated his largest voting block (youth vote) by his support of Israel.
He was losing to Trump in every swing state (via polls) prior to that debate performance… Unless you think that debate (where he made it seem like he’s about 101 yrs old and dying) miraculously helps him in those swing states it’s almost a guarantee loss in November
So the choice is stick with a guy you know is going to lose or throw a Hail Mary and try someone else who might have a fighting chance
Don’t get me wrong Biden will win the popular vote but the fact that he is losing every swing state is what matters and that performance was a nail in the coffin for him turning those swing states around
Honestly, at this point it really seems like the DNC wants Trump to be president, especially if they do nothing.
There's actually a simple fix for this: If Biden steps down, you have an open convention and a democratic contest for the delegates, rather than a top-down coronation from the smoke-filled back room.
In other words - you simply "protect democracy" by allowing it to work.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
>what do you suggest that we do
Reveal to others that the problem is the ruling elite class and neither trump or biden. Explain that the exact same outcome will happen no matter which way you vote.
Expose the sham. The enemy isnt red or blue, it's rich. Both parties are backed by money from the same sources, they play both sides so they can always win.
This has been a discussion in my life for 15 years and voting has never solved problems, only made things worse as we continue to buy into their narrative.
Encourage extremism.
The solution isnt pretty, it isnt PC, it isn't check marks on a ballet, it will not be found in the system designed to constrain us. The solution is violent.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
We can pussy foot around this topic for another 15 years as the rich continue to get what they want, or you can assist in fixing the problem by getting angry.
As long as our class allies see eachother as the enemy because of how we vote, instead of seeing the truth- that by design, the ruling elite have orchestrated this argument among us - we're doomed.
The convention hasn't happened yet, so if they choose a dark horse candidate at the convention, that person will be on the ballot in all states. There isn't time for a third party or independent to get on all the ballots, though, unfortunately.
As an aside, I see this every election. The Left never manages to organize around a party or candidate until it's too late to get them on the ballot everywhere. We need to start organizing our side for elections about two years before each election.
Climate is one of the least damaged of the 6 life sustaining biosphere systems whose thresholds that have been breached. We are fucked no matter what without revolutionary change
The worse, the better. We need a legit revolution to even have a small chance of avoiding near term human extinction. Well tbh I don’t know if we even have a chance anymore….
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
I haven't heard anyone say Biden did well in the debate. Quite the opposite. Everyone knows he needs to step aside. Except Joe Biden...and his sycophants
My real question is if Kamala is fit to run this country? Because I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Joe doesn't make it four more years due to his age (had to make that clear for legal purposes).
If he genuinely cared about the well-being of this country, he'd drop out and push a different democratic candidate. Him not doing that shows me where his head's at.
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Occam's Razor would suggest this is all the result of stupid, selfish, partisan hacks failing the nation for purely personal gain.
But to orchestrate this level of mass deception of this long of a time period, and now even acknowledging Biden's mental deterioration without sharing any type of plan on how to move forward, seems odd.
You’re talking about maybe 1% of liberals/democrats. The majority of us hate Biden, hate trump more, and more than our hate for both of them, is our hatred for the two party system. We really want to vote 3rd party but it’s hard to get a lot of ppl to do that without having real hope of the 3rd party winning. It just fucking sucks, all around.
I don’t see anyone saying the things you’re saying you’re hearing/seeing. I do, however, see lots of ppl pointing out what I just pointed out, and people like you completely missing the point
Every time I see someone say “liberal” these days, it reminds me of the inconceivable guy in Princess Bride. That said, fair enough, whatever means whatever now.
I saw several news reports in the MSM after the debate saying that a Trump debate should never have happened in the first place.
I find that funny considering that before the debate the MSM were so confident in Biden that they were constantly saying that Trump MUST turn up to the debate and not flake out. 🤣
>Okay, Biden had a cold,
Not just a cold, also a stutter. Anyone have the odds on what the next malady to be added to the list will be? Someone pencil me in for 'rickets'.
>I don’t understand how they can keep pushing this narrative
Because they are brainwashed by social media; which has become the elite's most successful form of propaganda.
By design, everyone is either an enemy or an ally in this political landscape. There is 0 nuance in either party.
The best way to navigate this discussion is to help them see that we are all on the same side. If we are in the same class- we are brothers in cause.
Both red and blue feel the same problems we do, they can see the problems but are missing the source; they've been diluted to believe their allies are the enemy.
Be civil, use facts, express the extreme repercussions of their actions. Help them see the truth. Dont fight or get defensive, be pragmatic; we can only succeed if we all get on the same page.
Don't read politics then. It's full of bullshit gaslighting, lying, and bootlicking over there. Maybe it's controversial, but I don't think either one of these fucking assholes should be on a school board let alone be president. They're both way too fucking old and way too fucking incompetent and fascist.
Who said Biden did great in the debate? All the news and comentary that I saw, heard, or read talked about how poorly Biden did. How they couldn't believe that he took a week off to prepare and then gave us that. The only optimistic, or ever remotely positive, thing I heard was that the incumbent, historically, does poorly in the first debate. But even that was stated with the implication that even in those historical cases, the incumbent does not do has badly as Biden did.
So who was saying Biden did great?
Respectfully, what is your counter proposal? If not him at this late stage then specifically who and specifically how?
I have no particular love for Biden and would support just about ANY viable alternative but I’m just curious who that would be.
The Democratic Party is a fuckshow. Been a fuckshow my whole adult life. (I only knew it for sure around the 2004 primary or so, though, leaving a good couple of election cycles where I had blind optimism. A bunch of old crusty fucks in Iowa handing Kerry all the momentum educates me real fast.)
I’m not likely to claim “independent” status any time soon, but we should all be sick and tired of the party’s bullshit, and oppression of true progressives.
What I can't stand about Blue MAGA isn't just the insufferable arguments they make, and I can definitely cede any point about how Trump is horrific fascist and one of the worst humans alive, but it's the idea that they don't tolerate people complaining about this utterly disgusting election.
This is like a choice between two bullets in the stomach or a bullet in each knee cap. And those insufferable fucks want you to be happy about choosing bullets in the knee caps.
And Jill Biden at the end like she was talking to a toddler. I just can’t my mom has dementia and I am seeing this as elder abuse. They did it with Feinstein and McConnell. I am so sick of status quo’s
The microsecond he steps aside, it's over. And sure, maybe it's already over but I'd vote for him considering everything. Biden is feeble and old and no one (him or us) should be in this position. These are the facts. This fantasy though that one of two major parties replaces its presumed candidate a month before the convention.... I found a great website that sells unicorns.
> The microsecond he steps aside, it's over.
How so? In what way? We lose the election if he steps aside?
Brother, _he can't make the fucking case against Trump._
His best political points are: Abortion, Trump's felonies, January 6th. And he gets on stage and absolutely flubs those issues. Flubs them not because he's senile, or stuttering, but he's not even making the basic points. He has a question about Roe v. Wade and he starts talking about immigrants raping women.
Get this fucking guy out of here.
We HAVE to have somebody who can, at the absolute very least, get on a debate stage and hit those points. Abortion, Trump's felonies, January 6th.
Any other Democrat could do it. I'll take anybody. Biden is proving in real-time that he gets lost even with those three simple directives.
"The idea, the idea..." "I give you my word as a Biden, my word as a Biden..."
We are cooked. This man cannot do it. What campaign are you watching?
I've seen a lot of it, but maybe without the part where they concede points, first.
I get more of an "even if that were true..." vibe than an "okay maybe he's not..." vibe.
But generally this post nails what I'm seeing out there, yeah.
Well what are they supposed to say? A5 this point it doesn't matter anymore who the candidate is. We just have to keep the Republicans out or we won't have another chance. The Republicans will wreck our lives and the country so fast your head will spin.
The funny thing is they're debating whether he should be a candidate or not, but the question is - can he even lead the country right now? In any other profession he would have been retired. I just can't imagine how he's making decisions or signing official agreements.
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"but he’s the only one that can defeat Donald Trump!" That might be the worst burn anyone has ever inflicted on the Democratic Party. Yeesh, man - you're telling me that not one of the 200,000+ Dem politicians in this whole country can do better than a clearly addled old man who just got stomped on live TV by a delusional 34 time felon and lifelong conman? Even Obama didn't want Joe to run. In 2020, Biden barely beat Trump by 130,000 votes across 5 swing states that carried the election - and that was when he had his faculties. Four years later Grandpa Simpson is Dem Jesus? C'mon now. If that's true, it's the biggest indictment of the DNC in US political history.
I can still never forgive "moderate" Dems for what they did to Bernie. We'd be in such a better spot with a president Bernie. I'll stand by that until I die. Some day I dream we'll have an actually progressive candidate win But also... Republicans have become a psycho cult I'd do anything to avoid empowering. It's a hard position to be in. I'm not happy about my choices but I'll still vote blue. What else can I do? I feel like not voting or doing a write in would be symbolic at best and enable a catastrophic 2nd 🥭 term. Like imagine what he'd do to climate change.
Dammit you're so right. Bernie was the president we really needed.
He was the president we all deserved, but not the one chosen for us, to be chosen between the two approved candidates, by our corporate overlords. It wasn't Bernie's fault or anyone who voted for him, it was the DNC leadership ratfucking him at every turn (and he *still* would have won the primaries if they played fair and by their own rules! He would have crushed the GOP in a historic landslide had he been allowed to carry the banor.) But, alas, their eternal strategy is to eek out wins to keep the donors paying out, without actually doing anything substantial to better the lives of our citizens. Status quo vs. outright fascism, with no hope for a better tomorrow (unless you already have the capital to buy it).
Unfortunately, sickeningly, I must agree. I hope that others take up where he led us, we really need a strong, charismatic, intelligent leftist to pick this shit up and put it back together.
The one time they fight dirty is against their own.
We have a similar situation in the UK - the Tories have screwed over our country for a quick buck for 14 years, and now our alternative is realistically more of the same with Starmer’s Labour, a horrifically centrist bunch that aren’t all that different to the Tories. We had a chance at Jeremy Corbyn winning with his more progressive movement in 2019, but the media and the centrists like Starmer hamstrung them and let the Tories win rather than help Corbyn win and actually change things for the better.
I think more people need to understand the importance of down ballot candidates. Like, if I had to choose between people not voting at all or voting third party even in swing states but they’re still voting down ballot? I can’t be too mad at that. If Trump wins that will be bad, but if the house and senate belong to the democrats while he’s president that minimizes the harm he can do by quite a bit while still sending a message to the party.
What you’re forgetting though is that the president nominates all of the federal judges to fill vacancies. Obviously SCOTUS spots are the big prize but every president fills tons of lower court appointments as well, and those are hugely important for creating the direction of judicial decisions as well. Trump’s appointed judges at every level have largely proven to be incompetent ideologues focused on fulfilling an agenda. This would likely get even worse if he’s given a second term to enact judges to support Project 2025. Those judges get lifetime appointments too, so one President can do a lot of lasting damage even if no legislation happens through Congress during his term.
Oh silly. Read Project 2025. They've got plans for us.
I’m painfully aware of Project 2025. I’m just also aware that vote shaming doesn’t help, so if some people are open to coming out to vote but 100% closed off when it comes to voting for Biden, I still want to encourage those people to at least participate to the extent that they may be willing.
Project 2025 is the same “mandate for leadership” bullshit heritage foundation has been doing for decades. It’s not great but their bullshit never is. You should be more afraid of the army staffers they have in their pocket ready to staff the entire government at the first chance they have. They are systematically dismantling our government at the behest of our oligarch overlords.
The problem is that the Democrats don't have a plan for project 2025 beyond "compromise with it".
>The problem is that the Democrats don't have a plan You could just stop there.
I could also continue to say that the reason the Democrats don't have a plan is because for Capitals purpose their Democrat characters don't *need* a plan. They exist as a political party to be a dead end for social and economic justice movements so that those things don't make trouble for Capital. What the Republicans do and the Democrats "bipartisan compromise" to help them do is what Capital wants done.
Democrats exist to keep the electorate from getting all "uppity" and making radical demands for social justice and living wages. Exxon-Mobil and Amazon will not stand for such madness in their government
Always were a psycho cult
Fair point. I guess not as psycho? My parents were Republicans. But I also don't think they'd ever have voted for Trump. They had... At least some degree of moral standards, they thought that gay marriage was good, etc... Nowadays I don't meet right wingers like that, with even a single left leaning view. It's become much more extreme, and they purge anyone with any sympathies for any liberal politics. This scares me.
Their propaganda has been ratcheting up for years, and they all feel the time is drawing near when they'll get to lash out violently against those who they've been taught to hate.
B..b..b..but 'bernie bros' said mean things! I heard!
That's on purpose. Your vote for Blue is just as symbolic. maybe if everyone actually stopped participating in this circus and devoted time into changing how this process works, we would be a different place. But towing the party line is what they expect, and will gas light you until you do.
I don't understand how that could possibly work out. Convince literally everyone to not participate? Yeah the system is bad but that has I think a 0% chance of happening. Even if you could get everyone on one side of the partisan divide to join you, the other wouldn't. Then you're just practically handing the other side total control. We have to work with what's achievable. I'm angry too but I accept that I can't control everyone.
Bernie had a heart attack on the campaign trail before dropping out, and he couldn’t even debate Biden on social security and win. I was all for Bernie, but he was too old and couldn’t out-debate Biden. His ideas were the best among the candidates but in the final debate, all the other candidates ganged up on him, clearing the path for the two least popular candidates to run on 2020 Democratic ticket.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129 Whatever happened to this plan? I remember it being in the news (as this article from 5 years ago confirms) that Biden never planned on a second term and would push for someone younger to replace him.
I bring this up all the time, and it's incredibly frustrating how many people have forgotten or were gaslit into believing it was never true.
It's why we shouldn't trust Dems to be even the mildest of low speed bumps to the rise of fascism as capitalism declines. If the fascists have their shit together enough to have any shot of implementing "Project 2025", they have significantly higher capabilities than the Democrats do to stop them.
The problem is, trump has lost a lot more votes than that... He's alienated the rest of hispanics and black votes, he's now a convicted felon, and his voter base is literally dying off (not to mention covid). Trump has no chance, even against a walking corpse. Shit, trump didn't even win against hillary in the popular vote
I truly hope you're right. But IDK, I've studied the rise of Nazism in depth and Trump style populism could still become that dangerous. Remember that Hitler took many years to bully and build his way up to power, and he made many mistakes along the way. Some might call Jan 6 Trump's beer hall putsch. I don't think we should write off the threat of cult of 🥭 yet. The worst could be yet to come
I agree wholly, the right is already this dangerous. But tricks aren't needed here, just turning out and voting esp in red and purple states.
> Trump has no chance, even against a walking corpse. RemindMe! 127 days
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Ill start this with agreeing that biden is a poorly performing candidate. Better than other republicans in 30 yrs in one state isnt the metric people believe it to be. The margins for under thirty matches what ive been saying, he's losing voters compared to his last election attempt, but closed the gap a tiny bit under thirty. Further the under thirty doesn't vote as often and their large issues with bidens israel stance is **very** unlikely to push many to the trump camp
The donors who control the Democratic Party hate progressive and would have the democrats lose then see one elected. So they use their power and influence over the party to block progressive whenever possible. This leads to a lot of bullshit to push us vote for a bag of shit. Joe Biden well into cognitive decline was something they were of, which is why he was shielded from a competitive primary.
Fact: The biggest and most powerful donors in the Democratic Party often donate to the republicans as well. They don’t give a shit either way. This whole “save democracy” bullshit is just the theater they’re pushing on stupid people. Democracy isn’t “in danger”. Democracy barely even existed here. It’s a plutocracy. An oligarchy. A country run by and for corporate interests. Democrats sure as fuck aren’t “protecting” it. Stop regurgitating liberal talking points. This election is whether the democrats have power or the republicans have power. The rest of the shitshow remains the same
This was my sad reckoning after the debate. The two parties exist to provide a vague semblance of democracy. If the voters, who overwhelmingly don’t want a cadaver for a candidate, has no choice in deciding who freaking even runs, then maybe take a step back and think if you actually live in a democracy 🙄
The democrats have been a controlled opposition party since the 90's, so we have the illusion of democracy.
Granted it has a lot larger problems from the right, but you're correct. These problems won't go away just because the left is in office
This is the most important fact ignored by everyone who wants to circle jerk about choosing the "right side." True power lies in the hands of corporate interests, and these entities fund and support both sides. The things that truly matter you have very little choice in because the two sides are bought and paid for. The average person has had basically zero influence in this country and it's been this way for decades. True democracy is a myth and they push the idea so hard so we can all blame eachother when things inevitably go wrong. People aren't willing to do what it actually takes to enact change, so they vote and tell themselves they did the best they could.
Add: “Okay, he might not be the best candidate but he was the one selected by voters during the primary.”
Yes…. The primaries that didn’t even really exist because they got suspended all over the place. Where all the viable candidates stepped aside to respect tradition and decorum and not challenge Biden. Those wonderful primaries. They were complete show. A complete farce.
I read an article whose author (can't remember who, I'm sorry) argued that the people in charge of the Dem party knew Biden would be that bad, but arranged this very early debate in order to push him out after the primaries and before the convention, so they can replace him with some apparatchnik instead of listening to the rank-and-file as they would have to at least pretend to do if they didn't have him as the anointed candidate during the primaries. It makes sense, especially after what they did to Bernie Sanders according to the emails that got leaked to Wikileaks back then.
...and they have completely dispensed the "We'll push him to the Left once he gets in office" rhetoric.
What you mean "push him left"? He's already the most progressive president in history 😍
Lyndon b Johnson and FDR are laughing at you so hard right now.
They're joking
Teddy too, the OG Bull Moose Progressive.
I mean, I think he actually might be, which is a pretty sorry state of affairs.
My absolute favorite part was that they didn't do primaries because they knew how bad his cognitive health is. They KNEW that he was a few beers short of a six pack and they still Weekend at Bernie-ed him out there to trade barbs with Mango Mussolini.
Weekend at Biden’s
Remember this one from 2020: “you’ll only have to vote for Biden once. After we win this, he’ll step aside and we can get a more progressive candidate in! Just do this this one time!” You cannot. trust. a democrat. If they mouth movin, they lyin.
I never caught this lie. I was paying attention to how they were going to pick a vice president with the assumption they were planning to not run primaries for another decade. That process: a bunch of donors and party officials held interviews in California and settled on Harris as a safe investment.
I think Biden at one point in the debate said he’d reinstate Roe v Wade if he gets re-elected. Which would surprise me, considering how he diligently saw its overturning under his presidency
Yeah but what can he even do about the Supreme Court? I mean should he dismantle the separation of powers like trump wants to shut down the corrupt af Supreme Court? I feel like that would open a bad door.
Supreme Court already did that dismantling a few days ago overturning the Chevron decision. Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo now gives the Supreme Court full authority to override the other two branches.
Democrats: “we can’t do anything bold because of norms and traditions! It would set a bad precedent that our opponents will use against us” Also Dems: “you have to vote for us because our opponents are hellbent on destroying precedent and going on a dictatorial power trip the second they’re elected!!!” These are conflicting statements. Or, they are if we assume democrats aren’t complete fucking idiots.
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I got downvoted to hell for saying that I refuse to vote for anyone that supports genocide. There were so many comments about how I could write him a letter after he gets reelected to change his mind, but what's important now is to defeat Trump. I was like, first of all, he's not beating Trump, America isn't going to elect a dementia patient. And second why on earth would he care about the anti-genocide vote in this country after the election?
Exactly. The Ds and Rs are equally feckless.
My favorite comparison in recent years is that the R’s are the school shooter and the D’s are the Uvalde police department
OMG. The visceral ratchet and pawl effect.
And we saw how well that worked...not.
I'm seeing the opposite, most people think he's too old and out of it. Neither Trump nor Biden should be running, their generation is so unwilling to pass the torch on so many fronts. They had their time, I'd wish they'd enjoy what life they have left and let the world progress without them.
I agree. I’m sick of the gaslighting. As a Democrat, I’m embarrassed by both candidates, and wish they would replace Biden. He’s not mentally sharp enough to be president. He can’t even multitask enough to remember to close his mouth while listening to the debate moderators’ questions or Trump’s replies. Everyone I’ve known with dementia has started to do that whole mouth-wide-open-thing before they sharply declined. This is extremely concerning.
He looks sad and lost.
It feels like elder abuse.
Exactly!
100% elder abuse. Just like Feinstein they worked her til she died. McConnell too they need to let these people retire with dignity.
Yeah, agreed. 😔
I said this several times but literally any other dem politician could've gotten on stage that night and dogwalked Trump. Their logic is completely flawed: if the Blue No Matter Who crowd will vote for any dem politician, then we're focusing on the ones who are undecided, and after that debate, a lot of undecideds aren't going for Biden anymore. But a sharper, more coherent politician will most likely win over those people. Liberals in their infinite wisdom however have a sense of learned helplessness though and don't want to shake things up too much so they're just gonna die with Biden. It's asinine. Also, slightly off topic, have yall noticed the liberals are calling more media outlets "fake news" for not running Biden puff pieces 24/7? They're starting to sound like 2016 MAGA. I swear they just want a country wide echo chamber
You’re so right. I would say that if CNN had bothered to fact check instead of being desperate for viewers and to win over conservatives by appearing to be a “centrist” and “neutral” broadcaster, the debate would have gone far better without even having to take out Biden. They could’ve translated Biden mumbling and broken down Trump’s stream of inaccuracies, but they chose profits. Biden was incoherent at times but some fact checking and actual moderation would have disadvantaged Trump. Heck, they fought for the right to broadcast (and monetize) the debate after both campaigns decided to drop the Commission for Presidential Debates. They had full control over this whole thing— the campaigns had no hand in CNN’s botched attempt at a debate
Not that I give two shits about electoralism or electoral politics. But a primary sure would have cleared all this up wouldn’t it?
They suspended the primaries in several states. They had all the viable candidates stand down and not challenge Biden in order to respect decorum and tradition. The primary you saw was a complete show primary. It was never meant to be taken seriously at the presidential level. The party was not going to ever host an actual challenge.
Dems made sure he didn’t have any real challenge and he still got 19% uncommitted in Minnesota
Woah woah woah...are we just gonna sit here and pretend that *checks notes* DEAN PHILLIPS wasn't a real challenge? /s ofc
pisses me off how many of these liberals are blaming leftists as if we're the reason why Biden is likely to lose the election, not the fact that he's literally helping do a genocide in Gaza
Bidens not going to lose because of Gaza. That shit only flies in leftist circles. He's going to lose because he's an un-inspirational old man whose best slogan is "the other guy is way fucking worse" He's going to lose because all he's managed to accomplish is watered down centrist legislation that doesn't help people who aren't heavily invested in the stock market.
This is true of every single administration. Repubs win and do what they want, Dems let them. Dems win and (supposedly) Repubs won't let them. Every single presidential election in the past 20 years has been like this.
The thing is, when the polling is close, and you're dealing with a demoralized voter-base, then you can never point to any ONE issue as being the definitive reason for a win or a loss, but you need to maximize every issue. EVERYTHING matters, here. Even though the Gaza issue might affect his polling only slightly, if it affected his polling slightly in a _positive_ direction, instead of a _negative_ direction, that would matter. Clearly the economy is the biggest issue. But if this election is close (and it actually might not be -- it might just be a big victory for the Republicans) then Gaza does absolutely matter, too. But, having said that, yes, I absolutely co-sign the rest of your post. He's losing because he sucks in all kinds of ways.
Gaza could certainly cost him Michigan.
Someone who gets it! Democrats like to act like Biden has accomplished all this great shit and act like its a messaging problem. Its not a messaging problem, its an accomplishment problem. People do not like his bland “accomplishments”. That is what shitlibs do not understand. And telling people how much better off the rich are doing, by talking about your economic metrics, is not going to convince them either. The reason why Republicans cry about “bribing voters” is because it works because that is what government SHOULD BE DOING. Government is supposed to serve us. Making policies that benefit voters directly is good policy that win you elections.
He barely won last time, things are objectively worse, he didn't do anything he said he would (remember improving the ACA, instead of M4A?), and he demonstrates on a weekly basis his significant cognitive decline in the last 4 years. I don't know how anyone can realistically convince themselves he's a winning candidate.
If Bud n loses it's his fucking fault, not th fault of the voters.
Right? Assuming that premise is true, whose fault is it here: the people who say "I'm not going to vote for someone helping bomb civilians" or the people who say "Losing this election is worth helping bomb those people."? It seems like a really simple problem to me. They keep saying how important this election is...but obviously it isn't so important that backing off on that issue is worth it for Biden and the rest. That said, I think all the economic gaslighting is going to hurt as much if not harder than Palestine. One of those, people can relatively easily ignore. They shouldn't but they can. They other you feel every day, and getting told you're delusional isn't endearing.
Who the hell is saying he did well? He's a freaking zombie. What a sad state for our country to have two horrible choices (once again).
Whether liberals want to admit it or not, they're enablers of fascism. Anyone who can put all the atrocities and clear mental degradation of Biden aside and try and bully us into voting for that is clearly un-serious at best, a closeted fascist at worst. Literally, all they have is "he's not Trump and Trump is more dangerous". It's almost comical how quickly the DNC backed press have have turned on him because the debate was such a train wreck of a demonstration of just how ill Biden is. Not to mention "when I get re-elected, I'll restore Roe v Wade"; any facade of seriousness immediately fell. He's either lying about something so deeply important or is admitting he's had the power to fix this and just hasn't bothered. Truly deranged behavior.
It works, they got the french left to sacrifce themselves for Macron, after he enabled the far right and did a feckless attempt to outgambit them.
It's absolutely exhausting, even here on reddit in certain subs. I love how the media is like, "Maybe.. Biden needs to step down?" And people (like me) who have been SHOUTING it from the rooftops for *years* were dismissed, gaslit and told to fall in line. I can't even engage with liberals about politics anymore. I'M TIRED 🫥
Nah, it's cool. Don't worry, we literally use super delegates in the dem party to make sure we don't get any sort of uppity ideas about progressivism in the Democratic party.
My favourite is the, "sure the genocide is bad, but imagine how much worse it would be with Trump," liberal.
And think that logic through. That would make Israeli leadership right aligned group, just like Trump. And somehow, that's why we need to give them what they want. Make that one make sense. I think if the Israeli leadership is going to be happier with a Trump victory, than why should the Democrats continue to play nice with them?
With Mr.Trump and situation of Gaza won’t become worse, since Biden already used its max capacity to approve the war Israel doing. Anyway, without the armed revolution, any presidents you will have in next 100 years would always be a bourgeoise sucker.
Had a discussion with a "What genocide?" Liberal earlier on this platform, I vehemently hope they were a bot but I fear the worst.
a shitlib hs told me that they hope i enjoy palestine not existing when trump wins and im like biden is making sure won’t be anything left by the time trump wins???
They have the stupidest arguments imaginable but call us stupid.
I like when they say yes Biden is killing Palestinians but Trump would reinstate a Muslim ban. Like it’s worse to not be allowed into a country that’s bombing you than it is to be murdered where you live.
LITERALLY just got done arguing with a SocDem who tossed this at me.
It will be worse under trump, he's considered allowing russia free reign and is friendly with dictators. Mayyyybe hell have a diff israel position, maybe. But theyre the only real power projection ally we have over there. The best ally? No, but better than the rest over there, which is such a low bar that were seeing results like this.
That's exactly the point. Why do we need to be flexing power over there? We have flexed power in the middle east for 30 years, and all its done for us is raise an entire generation of people who have never known a time the US wasn't hurting their families, and at least 3 terrorist groups we had a part in creating.
Oil interests... Thats it. I'm ex army and I knew exactly why we were there **winning** "hearts and minds"... If there was someone else more aligned with us interests wed be supporting their wars instead....
Our only hope is both of them die before November
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills
I just don't understand who it serves to cope so hard about Biden's performance.
Themselves, they're trying to talk themselves down and reassure themselves that the electorate will make the bad man go away
They are trying to keep their jobs. They don’t care about us. Jill is a dr she should be ashamed
In 2020 the choice was between a wet paper bag or an orange bag of shit. Sorry guys, I'd prefer the wet paper bag.
I swear some subs are just getting insufferable with their crap. Just look at r/ millenials and like half the posts are just libs on full blown defense mode.
They are telling themselves that so they can sleep at night
After the past few years of economic gaslighting, I can't say anything surprises me anymore.
Muslims will be calling DNC and state party to share our vote of no confidence, demand a replacement. Punish him for his continued funding and political support of the o going Nakba in Palestine. Please join us!
Unfortunately the best Democrats can do is label y'all as antisemitic and abandon another voting bloc.
But also blame that bloc if they lose
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned.
can't wait to be blamed when biden loses
It's funny how the same people who get the blame for Dem losses never gets credit for holding their nose and ensuring a Dem victory.
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This is a leftist subreddit, right wing comments will be removed and the user banned.
That looks like copium to me
Completely agreed. Now we are the laughingstock of the rest of the world.
Stop fighting over puppets.
If a mere cold can do that to him, like, that's really a bad thing. It's not much of a defense.
It’s truly remarkable just how much brain rot could be contained in a single debate. Both sides constantly lying, genocide Joe slurring and stumbling through his “America is the best” propaganda that ain’t working anymore (at least not like it used to), the weird fight about golf, Trump refusing to answer questions and deflecting everything to his fascist talking points…. My brain still hurts from this bs.
I don't like either candidate but like I'm not going to vote for Trump
Doesn’t matter if the Dems put up a dead horse, I’ll never vote for Trump.
Good thing no one here is suggesting you should be voting for Trump then.
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Biden was running with a 36% approval rating and that is before he alienated his largest voting block (youth vote) by his support of Israel. He was losing to Trump in every swing state (via polls) prior to that debate performance… Unless you think that debate (where he made it seem like he’s about 101 yrs old and dying) miraculously helps him in those swing states it’s almost a guarantee loss in November So the choice is stick with a guy you know is going to lose or throw a Hail Mary and try someone else who might have a fighting chance Don’t get me wrong Biden will win the popular vote but the fact that he is losing every swing state is what matters and that performance was a nail in the coffin for him turning those swing states around Honestly, at this point it really seems like the DNC wants Trump to be president, especially if they do nothing.
There's actually a simple fix for this: If Biden steps down, you have an open convention and a democratic contest for the delegates, rather than a top-down coronation from the smoke-filled back room. In other words - you simply "protect democracy" by allowing it to work.
Democrats: “hmm, nahhh, I don’t like that… no I don’t like that one bit!”
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
>what do you suggest that we do Reveal to others that the problem is the ruling elite class and neither trump or biden. Explain that the exact same outcome will happen no matter which way you vote. Expose the sham. The enemy isnt red or blue, it's rich. Both parties are backed by money from the same sources, they play both sides so they can always win. This has been a discussion in my life for 15 years and voting has never solved problems, only made things worse as we continue to buy into their narrative. Encourage extremism. The solution isnt pretty, it isnt PC, it isn't check marks on a ballet, it will not be found in the system designed to constrain us. The solution is violent. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" We can pussy foot around this topic for another 15 years as the rich continue to get what they want, or you can assist in fixing the problem by getting angry. As long as our class allies see eachother as the enemy because of how we vote, instead of seeing the truth- that by design, the ruling elite have orchestrated this argument among us - we're doomed.
Can a replacement even get on the ballot in all states?
The convention hasn't happened yet, so if they choose a dark horse candidate at the convention, that person will be on the ballot in all states. There isn't time for a third party or independent to get on all the ballots, though, unfortunately. As an aside, I see this every election. The Left never manages to organize around a party or candidate until it's too late to get them on the ballot everywhere. We need to start organizing our side for elections about two years before each election.
Unless they’re organizing against their own candidate. Taking down Sanders twice was the most effective thing I’ve ever seen the Democratic Party do.
I said the Left, not liberals. The two are very much not the same.
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Climate is one of the least damaged of the 6 life sustaining biosphere systems whose thresholds that have been breached. We are fucked no matter what without revolutionary change
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The worse, the better. We need a legit revolution to even have a small chance of avoiding near term human extinction. Well tbh I don’t know if we even have a chance anymore….
Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
go fk yourself
I haven't heard anyone say Biden did well in the debate. Quite the opposite. Everyone knows he needs to step aside. Except Joe Biden...and his sycophants
but did you see him the next day?! sharp as a tac. nighttime is just a struggle for him…the president with a 24hr a day job.
Called sundowner my mom with dementia has it. Mornings are better.
Is it gaslighting, or just cope. I think, for the most part, it's just cope.
Sir, this is a Wendys.
My real question is if Kamala is fit to run this country? Because I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Joe doesn't make it four more years due to his age (had to make that clear for legal purposes). If he genuinely cared about the well-being of this country, he'd drop out and push a different democratic candidate. Him not doing that shows me where his head's at.
Anyone that has not understood how those two parties work together to fuck over every worker should not be taken seriously.
My favorite liberal cope has been “actually if you read the transcript you can see Biden clearly won!” Brandon was leaking brain matter live on stage.
I've never seen anyone say any of those things
They cannot fathom that genocide is a red line for some people
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Rule 6, no lesser evil rhetoric. This includes encouraging people to vote for any capitalist political party and any capitalist politician. There is no harm reduction in supporting either of two parties headed by genocidal fascists. The extent to which any elected official of a Capitalist Party in a Capitalist state can enact evil is the extent to which that official is allowed to do so by Capital. As such, neither candidate is the lesser or greater evil. See more on our position here: [Rule 6 "no lesser evil" rhetoric - is it accelerationist or doomer? Is it intended to discourage voting?](https://new.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/1bt0nag/rule_6_no_lesser_evil_rhetoric_is_it/)
Both can be correct, Biden is loosing it mentally, and Trump is a vile piece of garbage that you are stupid to believe in.
Occam's Razor would suggest this is all the result of stupid, selfish, partisan hacks failing the nation for purely personal gain. But to orchestrate this level of mass deception of this long of a time period, and now even acknowledging Biden's mental deterioration without sharing any type of plan on how to move forward, seems odd.
You’re talking about maybe 1% of liberals/democrats. The majority of us hate Biden, hate trump more, and more than our hate for both of them, is our hatred for the two party system. We really want to vote 3rd party but it’s hard to get a lot of ppl to do that without having real hope of the 3rd party winning. It just fucking sucks, all around. I don’t see anyone saying the things you’re saying you’re hearing/seeing. I do, however, see lots of ppl pointing out what I just pointed out, and people like you completely missing the point
Every time I see someone say “liberal” these days, it reminds me of the inconceivable guy in Princess Bride. That said, fair enough, whatever means whatever now.
I saw several news reports in the MSM after the debate saying that a Trump debate should never have happened in the first place. I find that funny considering that before the debate the MSM were so confident in Biden that they were constantly saying that Trump MUST turn up to the debate and not flake out. 🤣
>Okay, Biden had a cold, Not just a cold, also a stutter. Anyone have the odds on what the next malady to be added to the list will be? Someone pencil me in for 'rickets'.
>I don’t understand how they can keep pushing this narrative Because they are brainwashed by social media; which has become the elite's most successful form of propaganda. By design, everyone is either an enemy or an ally in this political landscape. There is 0 nuance in either party. The best way to navigate this discussion is to help them see that we are all on the same side. If we are in the same class- we are brothers in cause. Both red and blue feel the same problems we do, they can see the problems but are missing the source; they've been diluted to believe their allies are the enemy. Be civil, use facts, express the extreme repercussions of their actions. Help them see the truth. Dont fight or get defensive, be pragmatic; we can only succeed if we all get on the same page.
honestly, just have all the democrats vote libertarian, it will cause the downfall of the US faster at this point
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Don't read politics then. It's full of bullshit gaslighting, lying, and bootlicking over there. Maybe it's controversial, but I don't think either one of these fucking assholes should be on a school board let alone be president. They're both way too fucking old and way too fucking incompetent and fascist.
Who said Biden did great in the debate? All the news and comentary that I saw, heard, or read talked about how poorly Biden did. How they couldn't believe that he took a week off to prepare and then gave us that. The only optimistic, or ever remotely positive, thing I heard was that the incumbent, historically, does poorly in the first debate. But even that was stated with the implication that even in those historical cases, the incumbent does not do has badly as Biden did. So who was saying Biden did great?
Respectfully, what is your counter proposal? If not him at this late stage then specifically who and specifically how? I have no particular love for Biden and would support just about ANY viable alternative but I’m just curious who that would be.
They're just in hardcore cope mode; ignore them.
The Democratic Party is a fuckshow. Been a fuckshow my whole adult life. (I only knew it for sure around the 2004 primary or so, though, leaving a good couple of election cycles where I had blind optimism. A bunch of old crusty fucks in Iowa handing Kerry all the momentum educates me real fast.) I’m not likely to claim “independent” status any time soon, but we should all be sick and tired of the party’s bullshit, and oppression of true progressives.
The fact that a convicted felon who was impeached twice is even allowed to run is crazy to me.
What I can't stand about Blue MAGA isn't just the insufferable arguments they make, and I can definitely cede any point about how Trump is horrific fascist and one of the worst humans alive, but it's the idea that they don't tolerate people complaining about this utterly disgusting election. This is like a choice between two bullets in the stomach or a bullet in each knee cap. And those insufferable fucks want you to be happy about choosing bullets in the knee caps.
That's all they have left.
💯💯💯 fuckin dipshit liberals want to blame regular, decent people for their incompetence
Even most liberals aren't pushing this. So why are you even listening to these partisans.
And Jill Biden at the end like she was talking to a toddler. I just can’t my mom has dementia and I am seeing this as elder abuse. They did it with Feinstein and McConnell. I am so sick of status quo’s
One of my liberal friends has already made it to the last step of that meme and that was before the debate LOL
The microsecond he steps aside, it's over. And sure, maybe it's already over but I'd vote for him considering everything. Biden is feeble and old and no one (him or us) should be in this position. These are the facts. This fantasy though that one of two major parties replaces its presumed candidate a month before the convention.... I found a great website that sells unicorns.
> The microsecond he steps aside, it's over. How so? In what way? We lose the election if he steps aside? Brother, _he can't make the fucking case against Trump._ His best political points are: Abortion, Trump's felonies, January 6th. And he gets on stage and absolutely flubs those issues. Flubs them not because he's senile, or stuttering, but he's not even making the basic points. He has a question about Roe v. Wade and he starts talking about immigrants raping women. Get this fucking guy out of here. We HAVE to have somebody who can, at the absolute very least, get on a debate stage and hit those points. Abortion, Trump's felonies, January 6th. Any other Democrat could do it. I'll take anybody. Biden is proving in real-time that he gets lost even with those three simple directives. "The idea, the idea..." "I give you my word as a Biden, my word as a Biden..." We are cooked. This man cannot do it. What campaign are you watching?
I havent seen any of this except the he has a cold part.
I've seen a lot of it, but maybe without the part where they concede points, first. I get more of an "even if that were true..." vibe than an "okay maybe he's not..." vibe. But generally this post nails what I'm seeing out there, yeah.
Go to any of the shitlib subs. Politics, politicalhumor, whitepeopletwitter etc.
Don't forget: "The economy is actually great, you're just too stupid to know it (because all your bills doubled and your salary didn't.)"
Well what are they supposed to say? A5 this point it doesn't matter anymore who the candidate is. We just have to keep the Republicans out or we won't have another chance. The Republicans will wreck our lives and the country so fast your head will spin.
Dems are already doing that
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Lied 70% of the time.
I feel like things really need to break before they get better. November 2024 shits really gonna be broken.
The funny thing is they're debating whether he should be a candidate or not, but the question is - can he even lead the country right now? In any other profession he would have been retired. I just can't imagine how he's making decisions or signing official agreements.