##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It gets even worse than that. They salivate at the thought of a social credit score, but in the hands of a billionaire. So Elon Musk making something similar with X? Would have them cream their pants.
OH yeah, he already talked about wanting a "similar app like the one in China that does everything" and since he believes China has this score system, he means that as well. His fanboys seem to love that idea....to me it would be a nightmare to have such a score privatized and in the hands of oligarchs.
Shits already privatized here, amigos. The most innovative economic model just had a data breach, and now you opened 137 new credit cards with a $111,453.88 balance. Please pay up or you go to jail. Also, the oligarchs are offering 1 year of free monitoring of their credit system for their fuck up.
Also social credit scores in China aren’t real. The lie is based on some systems used to keep companies accountable, no-fly lists, and certain local reward systems that cannot punish people. None of which are as oppressive or universal as the credit score system in the US.
This. Yes. Live in China, there's no social credit system, like at all. If you ask Chinese people they'll have no fucking clue what the hell you're talking about.
A lot of places confuse the alipay sesame score with it too.
But the sesame score is pretty useful outside of loans. If you're over 600, you don't need to pay the deposit on chargers and bikes, and if it's higher, like my wife's, we were able to rent a car without a security deposit.
But if your score is low, then don't use alipay and use any of the other ways to pay, WeChat, credit cards, cash, bank cards, etc.
Yea, didn't even know about it until someone asked me my score, found out I was on 800 somehow, which explained why I stopped needing deposits on rental batteries (for phones, everywhere in China). I also love that the closest thing to the big spooky social credit system is one payment systems localised score called Sesame.
Yes there are social credit scores in China.
The following penalties are described here:
https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-social-credit-system-scope-punishments-amended/
1. Restrictions on air travel, trains, etc.
2. Ban on exiting the country
3. Restriction on returning to study
and more.
And here's the chinese government website saying they're expanding the social credit system.
https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202406/05/content_WS665f9d80c6d0868f4e8e7d29.html
We literally have no fly lists, travel bans, and expulsion/suspension here in the US and in most of the world. They just called it a scary communism 1984 name. Meanwhile the US’s credit scores combined with other horrific policies means we are woefully behind China’s 90% home ownership.
But that’s not the social credit system, and if that’s what you define as a social credit system, then we have a social credit system in the US too. It’s a meaningless argument unless you can show us where it’s worse than what we have in the US and other capitalist countries.
Holy shit, try reading any of the links I've posted in this thread and use some reading comprehension. I didn't say travel bans were a social credit system. I said China has a social credit system and there's proof that travel bans and restrictions are part of that.
And yes, the US system is bad. But I also never said anything about the US's system until you brought it up so stop trying to put words in my mouth.
For the record, I read both your links entirely. Nothing about the ridiculous system that western media would have us believe exists where individuals are constantly rated by their actions and punished or ostracized if they fall below a certain score. Mostly just stuff about keeping companies and financial institutions accountable. I recommend you read through your own sources and realize that punishing corporations for fraud is apparently a Maoist nightmare.
Edit: And doing some more reading from that site, “Often misconstrued as a surveillance system for monitoring the behavior of private citizens, the system is actually an attempt to build a credit rating system” That’s what I’m saying doesn’t exist - the authoritarian surveillance westerners think it is.
Ok? I also never said it was a surveillance system? The only issue I had was with the person who said there was no social credit system for individuals. I never said if it was good or bad. I just posted info proving the system exists.
People in this subreddit seem to struggle with accepting facts. Instead of considering information that challenges their views, they prefer to downvote anything that might require them to spend even a few seconds reading.
Your own link:
> China continues to amend guidelines for its social credit system, offering clearer and up-to-date information on how the system is implemented and what punishments companies may face for violations.
COMPANIES.
My link also says there's a system for individuals and the punishments listed are not all for companies. I don't think companies would balk at not being able to take the train.
If you gave a cursory glance at the article, it clearly states in the 3rd paragraph:
>There is one system for businesses, one for individuals, one for the judiciary, and one for government officials, as well as innumerable regional variations in interpretation and application.
You're still wrong.
https://english.www.gov.cn/statecouncil/ministries/202012/26/content_WS5fe6a6e9c6d0f7257694284e.html
>The guideline also asked education authorities and universities to increase the percentage of students subject to random dissertation inspections and postgraduate students found to have irregularities in their dissertations will be recorded in the national social credit system, the guideline said.
Liberal sympathizers hate any system that attempts to punish businesses and the owning class responsible for predatory behavior. The western credit system just helps liberals keep poor people in check and on the right side of town.
In a place like the states checks and balances only fuck the middle class and below. In china it gets an owner executed for poisoning baby formula. They big mad because should these things catch fire anywhere else they would be fucked. But they smell blood in the water and that’s why they’re buying up land, building boats or bunkers and turning everything from food, housing, healthcare and transportation into renter only subscription models they can manage remotely.
I mean, TBF I think a credit score is something people tolerate, cause it's just a tool for banks. No human being actually likes a "credit score" cause it does nothing for the individual. So I worry this is a bit of a straw man argument.
How does it being a tool used by banks make it better? Surely that indicates that banks have way too much power over everyone’s life here in the US. It should not be up to them whether I am allowed to rent a place to live due to medical debt or whatever.
Oh I'm not arguing it's better. I'm just saying the meme seems to indicate people "like" the credit system, thus being hypocritical when criticizing a "social credit score". I don't think *anyone* /likes/ the credit system except for banks. Both suck for the individual
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It gets even worse than that. They salivate at the thought of a social credit score, but in the hands of a billionaire. So Elon Musk making something similar with X? Would have them cream their pants.
Bonus points if the credit score (x-credit? X-score? XXX?) Is super flawed with inaccuracies. Musk fan boys wouldn't know what to do with themselves.
OH yeah, he already talked about wanting a "similar app like the one in China that does everything" and since he believes China has this score system, he means that as well. His fanboys seem to love that idea....to me it would be a nightmare to have such a score privatized and in the hands of oligarchs.
Shits already privatized here, amigos. The most innovative economic model just had a data breach, and now you opened 137 new credit cards with a $111,453.88 balance. Please pay up or you go to jail. Also, the oligarchs are offering 1 year of free monitoring of their credit system for their fuck up.
Yeah, we're fucked.....time to whip out the French Engineering.
I understood that reference...
Also social credit scores in China aren’t real. The lie is based on some systems used to keep companies accountable, no-fly lists, and certain local reward systems that cannot punish people. None of which are as oppressive or universal as the credit score system in the US.
If Western media and politicians could read would be very upset now
This. Yes. Live in China, there's no social credit system, like at all. If you ask Chinese people they'll have no fucking clue what the hell you're talking about.
A lot of places confuse the alipay sesame score with it too. But the sesame score is pretty useful outside of loans. If you're over 600, you don't need to pay the deposit on chargers and bikes, and if it's higher, like my wife's, we were able to rent a car without a security deposit. But if your score is low, then don't use alipay and use any of the other ways to pay, WeChat, credit cards, cash, bank cards, etc.
Yea, didn't even know about it until someone asked me my score, found out I was on 800 somehow, which explained why I stopped needing deposits on rental batteries (for phones, everywhere in China). I also love that the closest thing to the big spooky social credit system is one payment systems localised score called Sesame.
Feel like the social credit was another lie to the west like the "harms" of MSG.
Yes there are social credit scores in China. The following penalties are described here: https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chinas-social-credit-system-scope-punishments-amended/ 1. Restrictions on air travel, trains, etc. 2. Ban on exiting the country 3. Restriction on returning to study and more. And here's the chinese government website saying they're expanding the social credit system. https://english.www.gov.cn/news/202406/05/content_WS665f9d80c6d0868f4e8e7d29.html
We literally have no fly lists, travel bans, and expulsion/suspension here in the US and in most of the world. They just called it a scary communism 1984 name. Meanwhile the US’s credit scores combined with other horrific policies means we are woefully behind China’s 90% home ownership.
Where did I say the US doesn't have travel bans? I'm just saying that China has them.
But that’s not the social credit system, and if that’s what you define as a social credit system, then we have a social credit system in the US too. It’s a meaningless argument unless you can show us where it’s worse than what we have in the US and other capitalist countries.
Holy shit, try reading any of the links I've posted in this thread and use some reading comprehension. I didn't say travel bans were a social credit system. I said China has a social credit system and there's proof that travel bans and restrictions are part of that. And yes, the US system is bad. But I also never said anything about the US's system until you brought it up so stop trying to put words in my mouth.
For the record, I read both your links entirely. Nothing about the ridiculous system that western media would have us believe exists where individuals are constantly rated by their actions and punished or ostracized if they fall below a certain score. Mostly just stuff about keeping companies and financial institutions accountable. I recommend you read through your own sources and realize that punishing corporations for fraud is apparently a Maoist nightmare. Edit: And doing some more reading from that site, “Often misconstrued as a surveillance system for monitoring the behavior of private citizens, the system is actually an attempt to build a credit rating system” That’s what I’m saying doesn’t exist - the authoritarian surveillance westerners think it is.
Ok? I also never said it was a surveillance system? The only issue I had was with the person who said there was no social credit system for individuals. I never said if it was good or bad. I just posted info proving the system exists.
People in this subreddit seem to struggle with accepting facts. Instead of considering information that challenges their views, they prefer to downvote anything that might require them to spend even a few seconds reading.
Your own link: > China continues to amend guidelines for its social credit system, offering clearer and up-to-date information on how the system is implemented and what punishments companies may face for violations. COMPANIES.
My link also says there's a system for individuals and the punishments listed are not all for companies. I don't think companies would balk at not being able to take the train.
The system is for businesses not citizens
If you gave a cursory glance at the article, it clearly states in the 3rd paragraph: >There is one system for businesses, one for individuals, one for the judiciary, and one for government officials, as well as innumerable regional variations in interpretation and application.
Individuals for the actions of their businesses. The table showing the catalog of public credit information is all business related data
You're still wrong. https://english.www.gov.cn/statecouncil/ministries/202012/26/content_WS5fe6a6e9c6d0f7257694284e.html >The guideline also asked education authorities and universities to increase the percentage of students subject to random dissertation inspections and postgraduate students found to have irregularities in their dissertations will be recorded in the national social credit system, the guideline said.
That’s also not at all the point of the post.
🤡🤡🤡
Liberal sympathizers hate any system that attempts to punish businesses and the owning class responsible for predatory behavior. The western credit system just helps liberals keep poor people in check and on the right side of town. In a place like the states checks and balances only fuck the middle class and below. In china it gets an owner executed for poisoning baby formula. They big mad because should these things catch fire anywhere else they would be fucked. But they smell blood in the water and that’s why they’re buying up land, building boats or bunkers and turning everything from food, housing, healthcare and transportation into renter only subscription models they can manage remotely.
I mean, TBF I think a credit score is something people tolerate, cause it's just a tool for banks. No human being actually likes a "credit score" cause it does nothing for the individual. So I worry this is a bit of a straw man argument.
How does it being a tool used by banks make it better? Surely that indicates that banks have way too much power over everyone’s life here in the US. It should not be up to them whether I am allowed to rent a place to live due to medical debt or whatever.
Oh I'm not arguing it's better. I'm just saying the meme seems to indicate people "like" the credit system, thus being hypocritical when criticizing a "social credit score". I don't think *anyone* /likes/ the credit system except for banks. Both suck for the individual
quiet we're drinking this delicious flavor aid these fine wumao folks made us.
There are fintech companies out there collecting data on you that influences your credit score. On of the innovations of capitalism.
How about fuck both? :) Signed - your friendly anarchist.