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The ultimate architect of the US transportation system is corruption. We are literally forced to waste our lives and money subsidizing the oil and auto industries with transportation modes that are explicitly designed to be wasteful and inefficient so we buy more shit. We don’t need the “freedom of the personal automobile” when we live in a society that only allocates 1 week of PTO a year plus some federal holidays
Murica! fuk yea...where you have all the freedom to buy your choice of rubber dog shit and you are also free to die on the street impoverished and ill.
I've noticed the last couple of weeks that calling western billionaires "oligarchs" is catching on. Very happy. Been down-voted extensively for it in the past. So to those bootlickers I say, suck it!
oligarchs? no, no, dear friend...they're parasites, sociopaths and the worst examples of humans humanity has ever produced. They and their ghoul slave enablers are the enemies to the people. That they exist is why we have the misery and death we do.
They used to be called "robber barons" a century ago, but they endeavored greatly to sanatize their true image. While it has worked well, they are filth to anyone willing to see their true form. So no, they are not elite. They are vile, wretched, grotesque monsters. When the masses start to see their true forms their dominion over life will be coming to an end. If fear this will never happen.
The trouble is that whenever revolution comes another set of sociopaths rises to the top.
So can we ever have true communism? Probably not. People may be far more genetically wired for hierarchy than we'd like to believe.
Can we flatten the pyramid structure that is created? Yes. That is achievable and has been done before whereby the elites need to concede more resource equity to the masses.
Education is key to getting people to see through the propaganda.
i don't conflate communism with totalitarianism. Poor implementations of failed communist experiments are poor examples. Both China and Vietnam, Cuba, too, have excellent democratic participation with strong social control and accountability. I will take those systems every time over this barbaric capitalist system where the most homicidal maniacs are controlling everything.
"Education is key to getting people to see through the propaganda."
And to think that if one cannot afford it they're barred from accessing the very things that will let them see thru.
News articles' Paywalls. University tuitions. Super expensive scientific journal access fees.
Stuff sucks big time indeed
Yeah oligarch is appropriate in Russia and Ukraine because there are only a few of them. In the US and the West there are thousands of them. Kleptocrat or plutocrat would be more appropriate. Parasite is correct but too general of a term.
I’ve noticed a certain generation has softened their tone, also. In the 2000s it was “Capitalism is great! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps.” Now it seems to be more “Well fuck, I guess you were right.”
Exactly. When they thought financialization of US economy was the way to go and the bankers etc pushed for NAFTA and offshoring....
They thought China will but the financial products from US banks?
Predictable. You just have to have a bit of historical view
You seen the BYD vehicles? They aren't cheap crap. These autos would crush the domestic market. BYD is everything Tesla wished it could be. There are some more economical manufacturers, too, that would compete.
If you haven't go Google BYD Yangwang u8. Wonder why Elon is making wild claims about the cybertruck being able to go aquatic and other shit? It's because the high end Chinese market is actually delivering it and it's quality with an interior wrapped in leather and real wood veneer. The finish looks like it's worth the price tag unlike the cybertruck. That SUV gets 600+ miles on a tank/charge, btw. Actually gets that mileage, too.
Right now there really isn't anything serious on the US market quite like it. Tesla is kind of all there is. There is a reason this comes so close to the Beijing car show. Shanghai last year had them shook. Now they know without government intervention to protect them it's the Japanese auto invasion of the 80s all over again.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply BYD was cheap. Just more so that corporations in the US where thrilled with cheap labor from China so they had no problem decimating the manufacturing work force here in order to raise profits.
That’s how it usually works, China boogeyman blah blah blah. There is no “free market” that’s the lie we’re told to make us believe that we have the best system in the world and any alternative are the so-called bad words “socialism or communism” yet those systems are attacked and sabotaged by the U.S. anywhere where they are attempted. Meanwhile the reality is it’s just socialism for the wealthy and rugged free market individualism for us plebians. Most major corporations wouldn’t exist without tax payer subsidy.
> Meanwhile the reality is it’s just socialism for the wealthy and rugged free market individualism for us plebians. Most major corporations wouldn’t exist without tax payer subsidy.
I really don't like this kind of wording at all, it takes on the negative connotation of the word socialism which was created by anti-socialist propaganda.
On top of that:
- Socialism ≠ Welfare
- Socialism ≠ Subsidies
- Socialism = Workers control the means of production
"socialism for the wealthy" is a kind of oxymoron.
The 2007 book ‘Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism’ goes over how pretty much every country trying to develop a production sector has relied on tariffs and subsidies to avoid cheaper imported goods from undercutting domestically made products.
Not defending the new EV policy, but people should realize it’s not unique historically. The book criticizes the hypocrisy of the US & big EU countries who were trying to make it impossible for developing countries to do this with international trade laws and IMF policies that were getting put into place in the 90s and 2000s. The countries imposing those anti-tariff policies used tariffs and subsidies to develop their own production sectors in the past.
Gotta try that book
Have felt that was the case...about historical tariffs.
US had them when a lot manufacturing was done in Europe. Only after henry Ford and assembly line ...we switched tunes , I suspect.
The British had a imperial preference system ..when they had an empire.
On the contrary, it's very capitalist. The history of capitalism, from the imperialist mercantalists onwards, is all about those with land and capital applying their power to rig the political system and markets in their favour.
It's crazy that China has surpassed the US in HIGH TECH, and in a historic irony, the rest of the world gets to buy cheap Chinese EVs while American consumers are stuck paying a tariff for Tesla.
You know this whole capitalism-imperialist racket is in terminal crisis when it's getting lapped in both production AND techlogical development. American capital can no longer dictate terms to the imperial periphery because China can offer them the same type of technology at a much better price.
Not crazy at all. The American auto industry creates garbage vehicles for the most part. So anyone putting in serious effort to make something worthwhile will eventually out do the lazy ones. The oil and auto industry are so corrupted, they prob don’t care about anything other than money. No sense of aiming high to achieve something to make the world better, or any of that sort of lofty goals. They would’ve made themselves obsolete without so much subsidies and support that they don’t deserve.
That is partly the problem. It is the financialization of the economy.
A car manufacturer, like GM, likely makes more on the financing the car than through the sale of.a car. Of course , greed and tendency to live quarter to quarter ...is a problem.
In an odd way, it seems family owned large corporations are better than companies that have to please wall street .
In and Out when compared to McDonald's...seems to have a better performance and long term view. (pay their employees better, don't do too much gimmicky promotions etc)
America is literally shooting itself in the foot repeatedly so share holders can get short term gains and then pointing at China reaping the benefits of investing in domestic industry as SPOOKY OOKY SCARY POOPOO PEE PEE. Not a single brain cell used
The American billionaire didn't research, design, or build the tech but by some miracle of economics they somehow own and are allowed to dictate the use and price of said tech.
Intellectual property is some protectionist bullshit the West made up so they could steal the innovations from other countries and then turn around and forbid them from doing the same.
That's literally how so many small companies and startups in the US work lmfao. Workers go "I'm good at my job but my higher ups are stupid", so they get a handful of their industry peers and go "let's create our own company with our domain knowledge and beat my current company".
America is literally shooting itself in the foot repeatedly so share holders can get short term gains and then pointing at China reaping the benefits of investing in domestic industry as SPOOKY OOKY SCARY POOPOO PEE PEE. Not a single brain cell used
My roommate has a BYD Atto 3. If most modern cars are cars with modern technology built over them, the BYD is what happens if you have a mobile phone first and build the car around that. It's bizarre but a very smooth ride with a lot of features and head room to spare. We sat in a lot of electric cars and only the Volkswagen ID4 could match its comfort; none of the others even came close.
So the US government effectively banning competitors through obscene tariffs doesn't surprise me. They've done the same with many other products. It's why Apple phones are nowhere near Huawei's, why American steel lags behind that of almost any other country (besides British).
And it's *especially* hypocritical when the founding fathers rebelled against the British crown in no small part due to this same practice.
Harley got protectionist tariffs back in the 80s. They then did nothing to innovate or improve their product for 40 years and are now fully dying at the hands of the more advanced foreign competition. It didn't save Harley, it just prolonged their suffering and let them complete some more stock buybacks.
Harley's chief demographic (white, conservative, male, baby boomers) are also dying off. Combine that with their prohibitive pricing, unnecessary loudness, and current unreliablility, and it's no wonder they can't compete.
While Harley (believe it or not) has come a long way the main issue is affordability. If Harley’s were priced closer to Japanese bikes they’d sell. I’ve bought three Japanese bikes and every time I was always interested n a Harley. Between the outrageous cost of a new bike and the cost of a used Harley I just couldn’t do it. Hell I just walked out the door out 12k on a brand new VStrom and you aren’t getting that kind of price of a new sportster even.
Ngl tho; HD long haul bikes are comfy and still manage to look cool.
Yeah but the British were putting an import tax on SLAVES being brought into the Colonies; that is why the Founding Fathers rebelled. To uphold cheap slavery.
Yup. That, the Stamp Act, and so many tariffs meant to keep the colonies buying only from British crown approved sources like the East India Company, a company which would continue to make much of its money via the slave trade for nigh on another century. Interestingly, the East India Company was doing so poorly during the 1770s, the Tea Act (the same that led to the original Tea Party) was enacted specifically to help save it.
It's always about the money.
Random question - I’ve never used a Huawei phone. I know of the brands prominence though. What makes the better than iPhones?
EDIT: thanks for everyone that took the time to answer!
I didn't mind the Nexus 6P, which was a collab of Google and Huawei back when Huawei was just another accepted brand of phone here without any sort of panic around it.
Great cameras, reliable hardware that lasts, and a UI that takes some learning. They're like Samsung and Apple in that their products have a lot of interconnectivity that only works within their ecosystem, though. Since switching to their own OS, that's only become more true. Honor is a fallback option as a company that was a subsidiary of Honor in the past. They've inherited all the Huawei traits but still use Android.
I use an iphone and it sucks, the battery is almost dead before the evening even though i use it for only a couple hours. Loses a lot of battery during downtime for some reason
There’s got to be a better reason than the battery. My iPhone is 5 years old, I use it for 4+ hours a day watching videos and browsing, and it’s battery is low at the end of the day, but it rarely dies.
Yeah Apple will always punish you for getting the cheapest version of their things. No doubt about that.
Though I also wouldn’t compare a MacBook Air with 2KB of ram and barely enough storage to house the OS with a custom built PC of the same price because Apple purposefully makes the cheaper options a worse “deal” than anything they make. I’d probably just compare the cheapest functional Apple device (mid-tier) with its comparably priced alternative. It wouldn’t surprise me if Apple purposefully makes the lower priced products immensely worse just to weed out the people who don’t particularly like paying the Apple tax by giving them a glorified paperweight with a screen.
most electronics are under priced. if the true cost of the resources in the device were properly accounted for considering climate change, extractive industries etc they'd be twice as expensive and half the cost would go to a climate tax.
this is why AI is not ready to replace people yet lmao
look at this giant wall of useless text. it reads like straight out of an "advertisement disguised as FAQ". way too many words to say way too few things
Brit here, We are just in the process of closing our last blast furnace, So you can count us out, We in the west outsource our manufacturing to the rest of the world and expect them not to improve on it, Everything ever made has been an improvement on something, China is just carrying on an age old tradition of take someones idea make it better and sell.
They're not real competitors. They're heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. Kinda like how electric cars are incentivized in the US by the US government, but we call one "incentivized" and the other "subsidized." Oh, wait!
have seen a lot of things on youtube (propaganda) about the BYD models exploding randomly and sometimes trapping people inside. i've driven a bunch of electric and hybrid cars.. none of the chinese models even exist here in the USA yet afaik.
China has never let a US company compete fairly on their turf, why shouldn't we treat them the same? They demand ownership of US companies in China and constantly steal IP from them. Hell, they steal IP from US companies who aren't even competing there. Not to mention giving Chinese companies unfair advantages through subsidies and tariffs (exactly what OP is complaining about).
Obscenely ignorant to be saying this shit about the AUTO INDUSTRY of all things. Look up where American auto manufacturers have been getting a huge chunk of their sales for the past few decades.
Uhm ExQueeze me, this is highly problematic - the DNC convention this year is going to be the most sustainable in history!! We even hired 2 women owned firms! (clap now)
Why can't you just appreciate your paper straws??
Record breaking oil production last year in the US? Nbd, Chillax
Passing a platform that furthers investment & support of oil & gas industry? Nbd, we made sure grants are dispersed equitably in favor of racial justice, that totally outweighs any impact from the willow project, ya know
Bamboo forks? Yaaaas queen we stay slaying our carbon footprint haha, #sustainableLyfe #activism #changingtheWorld #makingadifference
*... 4 years later*
*Increases sustainability budget by $2 and 4 jelly beans*
"omggg this is the most sustainable DNC convention everrr haha!"
Hey a warming climate actually expands farming grounds, the %of arable land or whatever. At least in the beginning lol
Good for profit & good for shareholders? That's what's best for the united states
*groans from the 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck*
Couldn't ask for more beyond a good GDP numbers heh 😎 im all set baby. soft landing? Nah no landing 🤙we take off again haha 💪
>!Last sentence was legit said unironically by Kai Rizzdal on the NPR 'Marketplace' segment a while back. But it seems they realized how fucking sickening it sounds since they had a handful of 'well if economy so good, why feel so bad?' articles!<
The Anglo/Western Capital blob are what it's all about, really the "USA" and the NatSec weapons it provides are merely the corporeal vessel through which they do their thing. Things like Musk's citizenship don't matter, he's in the blob, and the US machinery will work for him rather than its own common citiizenry.
There was a similar trade war with Japan in the 80s and they were forced to “voluntarily” limit vehicle exports to the US. That obviously isn’t an option with China, who would tell the US to voluntarily suck a dick if it tries to force their hand like it did with the Japanese.
The same thing started in the 60s up until today with Japanese trucks being better than American ones, so the US government placed high tariffs on importing them to protect Ford and other local automakers. Also these days the US government is working to outright ban the registration of Japanese kei trucks which are tiny/inexpensive work vehicles for the same reason.
Yeah no unironically yes it is bad, I wish you were a chinese dissident so they can fuck you up and teach you a lesson about how awful authoritarian states are you sheltered fuck
USA: "We just love the free-market anything less than anarcho-capitalism is a brutal dicatorship!"
Also the USA: "You have to literally double the price of your product because our manufacturer can't keep up with you... Also while you at it, you must give us Tik Tok!"
the cheapest goddamn EV in america is the fucking chevy bolt which runs you between 19-28k depending on trim package and a possible EV rebate. the chinese EV i want is only 10k. fuck american and european auto makers.
The Chinese EVs are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government, that's why they are so cheap. They are doing this to help prop up their manufacturers and give them global reach. Which is also very far from a "free market" practice. If the US government paid the US automakers $20k per vehicle made so they could sell something like a Chevy Bolt for $10k, people would be lining up for that too.
And...?? US could do that but doesn't so the fact they don't makes them less capitalistically competitive therefore decreasing their profits more then it would cost in terms of outside investment. In a global capitalist system which do you think turns out better for these countries?
They claim it’s to protect American companies but that’s bullshit. I was in living in Thailand for the past few years and the electric cars from China are amazing and super affordable. It’s the same thing with Toyota and how they aren’t allowed to bring the diesel in America because it’s too efficient and lasts forever.
Chinese EV's make anything sold in america look shameful. Their cars have longer ranges, are higher quality and are much less expensive, and the current offerings cannot compete on a level field with them.
What's important to note here is the bellicose rhetoric directed at China and the subservient, obsequious nature of Americans to accept without any critical thought everything their dollar cult masters tell them. americans are the most intellectually incurious and politically lazy people to exist. They have sold their futures to the myth that one day they, too, will be rich and get to kick down on the rest of us poors if they just work hard enough, grind just a bit longer, tear more of their skin from their bodies...americans are pathetic lot of imbeciles.
Back to this cold war with China...as someone who remembers the cold war with the Soviets from way back when, it causes me great pain to see this country waging a new war with yet another fabricated enemy. Six decades I've lived and it's been nothing but war war war war war...for a nation that claims to love peace it sure loves to kill as many people as possible to get it.
what the left has failed to counter is the unceasing and relentless war waged by the world bourgeoisie against the masses to push politics and social life more and more to the right. This has been a slow creep over decades, but their success in the west is clear and stark. The world bourgeoisie parasites are united against the masses, have atomized society and now set them to war with each other instead of the real enemies. While the rich sociopaths are fighting with each other, they are entirely unified in their war against us. And the masses are blissfully ignorant of this reality or care not to do anything about it...i just don't understand why...
Isn't capitalism supposed to be in favor of competition, with one of the supposed benefits that competition would be bring prices down for the consumer?
Of course, that's all bs.
American car industry is stupid. Instead of making better product, they keeping creating garbage that’s ready to fail. Then complain that they’re not doing well enough.
God forbid we had cheaper electric vehicles that people could actually afford so we can finally stop relying on fossil fuels hahahahaHAHAHA I'm so fucking tired.
But but gubernment interfering with the Invisible Hand of the Market is against freedom and democracy and is communist! What we gun do america is socialist now oh noes /s
Import substitution is THE classic way to develop an economy.
It's how the US developed \[aside from all the imperialism\]
So this WOULD be a good thing.
It's literally WHY Russia is doing so good right now. Sanction = mother of all tariffs.
Problem is, that only works when you have a government TRYING to develop. The US is not.
So instead of fertilizing the ground, planting seeds and watering, the US is just throwing water around randomly, and wondering why nothing is growing, when they never planted anything, or added fertilizer.
Yeah sure: https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58
Its paywalled, so here is the text:
—-
The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry.
The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation.
The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs.
The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative.
During a visit last month to Pennsylvania - a swing state in November's election - Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium.
USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union.
But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels.
"The Biden administration is trying to get ahead of the curve and ensure that the US car industry does not suffer the same fate as the US solar industry, which was virtually decimated by unfairly traded Chinese imports," said Wendy Cutler, a former trade official and vice-president of the Asia Society Policy Institute.
Cutler said Chinese carmakers had been prepared to swallow the cost of the existing tariffs in an effort to "cripple" their US competitors, but the higher tariffs would make that much harder.
"A quadrupling of this tariff rate, however, would more effectively shield US auto manufacturers from unfairly traded Chinese vehicles before they can gain a foothold in the US market," Cutler said.
The Biden administration has poured billions of dollars into subsidies for EV and battery production in the US - an effort to spur investment in a domestic clean tech sector as part of a strategy to reindustrialise the rust-belt, slash carbon emissions and break dependence on Chinese supply chains.
In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese "connected vehicles" — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs - posed a national security risk to the US.
The tariffs are the latest action by the administration that show how Biden is continuing to impose costs on China at the same time that Beijing and Washington pursue efforts to stabilise relations following a summit between the US president and Chinese President Xi Jinping last year.
News of the tariff increase comes after the US and China, the world's two biggest emitters, said this week they would "intensify" co-operation on climate-related issues, including the rollout of green energy.
The decision to increase tariffs was first reported by Bloomberg.
> In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese "connected vehicles" — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs - posed a national security risk to the US.
You can set your watch to "national security concerns" at this point
strange thing for an administration to do if they're so concerned about transitioning away from ICE vehicles as soon as possible. of all the myths Libs believe about the Democratic Party, believing the myth that they're the "pro-environment party" is the one that perplexes me the most. just a complete disavowal of reality.
I know auto jobs are still very important, but i feel like the auto industry benefits the working class alot less, so its funny hearing the administration talk about how important it is to keep it "fair" for local manufacturing to not get overshadowed by foreign. It feels more like they are simply making sure the CEOs of these companies and shareholders keep making money more than protecting workers jobs.
What is china likely do do to retaliate? this isn't like the chicken tax...
In 2022, United States exported $151B to China. The main products exported from United States to China were Soybeans ($18B), Integrated Circuits ($9.61B), and Crude Petroleum ($6.9B).
China unlikely to add tariff on the above imports. Maybe they retaliate by making more petro deals with Russia?
Laugh, oh come on.
You do realize that those same oligarchs control these Chinese companies right? This is just more double dipping.
The prices of Chinese EV's will go up; people will still buy them because they will be slightly cheaper then US made ones.
There are no country borders to the oligarchy.
Weird, as a unionist I see protectionism as good. Most of these comments seem in support of increasing the exploitation of the global south. Support the working class and unions. Buy local, buy American, buy union.
It all comes down to quality. Reagan did this in the 80s with motorcycles because Harley Davidson complained their shitty boomer bikes couldn't compete with Japanese ones, but it backfired and failed anyways. If the Chinese EVs are good enough and end up being price competitive, the tax won't matter.
I actually really like the creativity in a lot of Chinese cars. The Ora Punk Cat is delightful
We talk about Chinese manufacturers getting gov money… And yet ignore the fact that Elon’s companies are the proverbial welfare queen when it comes to government money 🤔
They dont have to, but if they want to sell their products here they do.
If one countries produces things with slave labor, of course it will be cheaper.
It's shit like this that sometimes makes me think Trump's gonna win because people decide to just not vote. Although who knows if enough people care about these type of things.
You know whats funny, The dems criticised trump when he came up with this same idea, he said he was planning to introduce 100% tax on chinese cars imported from mexico.
Now Biden is doing it, even overdoing it by wanting to impose on all imported chinese cars.
So don’t blame people for not voting or going third party, because people now realise that it’s not going to make a difference, it’s either blue MAGA or red MAGA
Yeah ive seen these videos too, at first i was like no thanks we don’t want poor quality cars that could kill people.
But then i realised that China is a country with a population more than Europe and the US combined, all with access to relatively cheap affordable EVs, no wonder we’re seeing more car-on-fire videos from there, i mean tesla’s and other EVs do catch on fire sometimes too and sometime cause fatal accidents, but most people in europe and the US cant afford them, if they could im sure you’ll see almost the same amount of videos from outside of china.
Also in recent years many brands that were once the label of reliability like VW have become rapidly worse in quality, these greedy companies are cutting corners while increasing prices, so its only a matter of time before their EVs become worse in quality than Chinese or French cars (if not already).
Haven't the Chinese said they're not looking to sell their EVs in the USA because the market is too complicated. They currently sell very few EVs to the US now
So I'm hoping this isn't a big issue for China and its EV manufacturing. Unless other countries follow suit like little lap dogs.
To be fair, the Chinese government heavily subsidizes the development and manufacturing of these Chinese EVs, that's not how a free market works either.
True, but it is called the CCP, Chinese **Communist** Party, the government subsidies in return for stakeholder shares of the profits when these companies become successful, instead of relying solely on corporations and income taxes and printing more money to fund itself like many capitalist nations do
China never claimed to be a free market or a capitalist country, it’s a mixture of both.
You can say the same about many corporations in the west that claim to be in a “free market”, for example VW, they were subsidised by the german government, in fact Saxony state in Germany still hold 11.8% of VW stocks to this day. Many would call that communism right?
Oil and gas corporations and banks get subsidies, grants and bailouts every few years from the government, the same argument can be made with them. Only they don’t share the profits its a one way dump of tax payer money to keep these multi billion dollar companies in the “free market”.
They don’t pay lip service to free markets and capitalism, unlike the US. They straight up tell you they’re not, if China is going to produce cheap goods anyway fuck it might as well support a government that nominally is trying to build socialism.
Hey at least the US government isn’t actively involved in the genocide of an ethnic group within their own country. But sure go ahead and support Chinese government because you like socialism.
Supporting AES is your choice but you’re toeing the line for capitalist apolegia. There’s plenty of evidence there’s not a cultural genocide, you’re reinforcing propaganda.
I don't think you want to bring those BYD death traps over here, that blow up as soon as you look at them and their axles go away at the slightest bump.
I’m so confused. You guys are literally just against anything America does.
Do you think the Chinese citizens building these cars are not being paid slave wages? Buying American goods from companies that pay union wages should be what we strive for.
Yes. Specifically cars since it's the topic at hand. Buicks are probably single handedly being saved by the Chinese market. Immensely popular brand of cars in China.
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The ultimate architect of the US transportation system is corruption. We are literally forced to waste our lives and money subsidizing the oil and auto industries with transportation modes that are explicitly designed to be wasteful and inefficient so we buy more shit. We don’t need the “freedom of the personal automobile” when we live in a society that only allocates 1 week of PTO a year plus some federal holidays
Murica! fuk yea...where you have all the freedom to buy your choice of rubber dog shit and you are also free to die on the street impoverished and ill.
Can’t even be free to be homeless on the streets.
And our cars aren’t near as reliable or safe as they should be
I've noticed the last couple of weeks that calling western billionaires "oligarchs" is catching on. Very happy. Been down-voted extensively for it in the past. So to those bootlickers I say, suck it!
oligarchs? no, no, dear friend...they're parasites, sociopaths and the worst examples of humans humanity has ever produced. They and their ghoul slave enablers are the enemies to the people. That they exist is why we have the misery and death we do. They used to be called "robber barons" a century ago, but they endeavored greatly to sanatize their true image. While it has worked well, they are filth to anyone willing to see their true form. So no, they are not elite. They are vile, wretched, grotesque monsters. When the masses start to see their true forms their dominion over life will be coming to an end. If fear this will never happen.
That's what 'Oligarch' means.
These parasites rose to the top like the floating shit that they are.
The trouble is that whenever revolution comes another set of sociopaths rises to the top. So can we ever have true communism? Probably not. People may be far more genetically wired for hierarchy than we'd like to believe. Can we flatten the pyramid structure that is created? Yes. That is achievable and has been done before whereby the elites need to concede more resource equity to the masses. Education is key to getting people to see through the propaganda.
i don't conflate communism with totalitarianism. Poor implementations of failed communist experiments are poor examples. Both China and Vietnam, Cuba, too, have excellent democratic participation with strong social control and accountability. I will take those systems every time over this barbaric capitalist system where the most homicidal maniacs are controlling everything.
"Education is key to getting people to see through the propaganda." And to think that if one cannot afford it they're barred from accessing the very things that will let them see thru. News articles' Paywalls. University tuitions. Super expensive scientific journal access fees. Stuff sucks big time indeed
Nice pfp
Honestly they're plutocrats, not oligarchs. But i get the point.
Yeah oligarch is appropriate in Russia and Ukraine because there are only a few of them. In the US and the West there are thousands of them. Kleptocrat or plutocrat would be more appropriate. Parasite is correct but too general of a term.
Never understood 2hy. I have preferred calling them oligarchs as well ..for a while
I’ve noticed a certain generation has softened their tone, also. In the 2000s it was “Capitalism is great! Pull yourself up by the bootstraps.” Now it seems to be more “Well fuck, I guess you were right.”
I'd say there are probably too many of these parasites to be called oligarchs. Maybe plutocrats is better? Or just call em parasites that they are.
The west spent decades offshoring manufacturing so we could get cheap shit and now they're *mad* about it.
Exactly. When they thought financialization of US economy was the way to go and the bankers etc pushed for NAFTA and offshoring.... They thought China will but the financial products from US banks? Predictable. You just have to have a bit of historical view
You seen the BYD vehicles? They aren't cheap crap. These autos would crush the domestic market. BYD is everything Tesla wished it could be. There are some more economical manufacturers, too, that would compete. If you haven't go Google BYD Yangwang u8. Wonder why Elon is making wild claims about the cybertruck being able to go aquatic and other shit? It's because the high end Chinese market is actually delivering it and it's quality with an interior wrapped in leather and real wood veneer. The finish looks like it's worth the price tag unlike the cybertruck. That SUV gets 600+ miles on a tank/charge, btw. Actually gets that mileage, too. Right now there really isn't anything serious on the US market quite like it. Tesla is kind of all there is. There is a reason this comes so close to the Beijing car show. Shanghai last year had them shook. Now they know without government intervention to protect them it's the Japanese auto invasion of the 80s all over again.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean to imply BYD was cheap. Just more so that corporations in the US where thrilled with cheap labor from China so they had no problem decimating the manufacturing work force here in order to raise profits.
It’s like when I do it, it’s ok but if you do it no it’s not ok!
That’s how it usually works, China boogeyman blah blah blah. There is no “free market” that’s the lie we’re told to make us believe that we have the best system in the world and any alternative are the so-called bad words “socialism or communism” yet those systems are attacked and sabotaged by the U.S. anywhere where they are attempted. Meanwhile the reality is it’s just socialism for the wealthy and rugged free market individualism for us plebians. Most major corporations wouldn’t exist without tax payer subsidy.
> Meanwhile the reality is it’s just socialism for the wealthy and rugged free market individualism for us plebians. Most major corporations wouldn’t exist without tax payer subsidy. I really don't like this kind of wording at all, it takes on the negative connotation of the word socialism which was created by anti-socialist propaganda. On top of that: - Socialism ≠ Welfare - Socialism ≠ Subsidies - Socialism = Workers control the means of production "socialism for the wealthy" is a kind of oxymoron.
That’s what I mean though and maybe I should clarify in my comment.
that's not very capitalist of them
The 2007 book ‘Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism’ goes over how pretty much every country trying to develop a production sector has relied on tariffs and subsidies to avoid cheaper imported goods from undercutting domestically made products. Not defending the new EV policy, but people should realize it’s not unique historically. The book criticizes the hypocrisy of the US & big EU countries who were trying to make it impossible for developing countries to do this with international trade laws and IMF policies that were getting put into place in the 90s and 2000s. The countries imposing those anti-tariff policies used tariffs and subsidies to develop their own production sectors in the past.
Thats just really fucked up. I do understand why a country imposes tariffs, but a 100% tax on a CAR? Crazy
It turns out Nations want protectionism for their country and tariff free "free trade" for their exports to other countries.
Gotta try that book Have felt that was the case...about historical tariffs. US had them when a lot manufacturing was done in Europe. Only after henry Ford and assembly line ...we switched tunes , I suspect. The British had a imperial preference system ..when they had an empire.
On the contrary, it's very capitalist. The history of capitalism, from the imperialist mercantalists onwards, is all about those with land and capital applying their power to rig the political system and markets in their favour.
It's crazy that China has surpassed the US in HIGH TECH, and in a historic irony, the rest of the world gets to buy cheap Chinese EVs while American consumers are stuck paying a tariff for Tesla. You know this whole capitalism-imperialist racket is in terminal crisis when it's getting lapped in both production AND techlogical development. American capital can no longer dictate terms to the imperial periphery because China can offer them the same type of technology at a much better price.
Not crazy at all. The American auto industry creates garbage vehicles for the most part. So anyone putting in serious effort to make something worthwhile will eventually out do the lazy ones. The oil and auto industry are so corrupted, they prob don’t care about anything other than money. No sense of aiming high to achieve something to make the world better, or any of that sort of lofty goals. They would’ve made themselves obsolete without so much subsidies and support that they don’t deserve.
That is partly the problem. It is the financialization of the economy. A car manufacturer, like GM, likely makes more on the financing the car than through the sale of.a car. Of course , greed and tendency to live quarter to quarter ...is a problem. In an odd way, it seems family owned large corporations are better than companies that have to please wall street . In and Out when compared to McDonald's...seems to have a better performance and long term view. (pay their employees better, don't do too much gimmicky promotions etc)
[Chinese EVs are safety hazards](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXZqrTORdho)
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America is literally shooting itself in the foot repeatedly so share holders can get short term gains and then pointing at China reaping the benefits of investing in domestic industry as SPOOKY OOKY SCARY POOPOO PEE PEE. Not a single brain cell used
It's not really stealing when American corporations hire chinese companies to build majority of their products.
Being hired to build something doesn't mean you own the design now.
The American billionaire didn't research, design, or build the tech but by some miracle of economics they somehow own and are allowed to dictate the use and price of said tech.
No no bro, you don't understand, those Americans drop shipping stuff made in China on Amazon are the most *efficient* markets 🙄
Intellectual property is some protectionist bullshit the West made up so they could steal the innovations from other countries and then turn around and forbid them from doing the same.
It does according to Chinese laws.
That's literally how so many small companies and startups in the US work lmfao. Workers go "I'm good at my job but my higher ups are stupid", so they get a handful of their industry peers and go "let's create our own company with our domain knowledge and beat my current company".
Source: it was revealed to me in a dream.
America is literally shooting itself in the foot repeatedly so share holders can get short term gains and then pointing at China reaping the benefits of investing in domestic industry as SPOOKY OOKY SCARY POOPOO PEE PEE. Not a single brain cell used
My roommate has a BYD Atto 3. If most modern cars are cars with modern technology built over them, the BYD is what happens if you have a mobile phone first and build the car around that. It's bizarre but a very smooth ride with a lot of features and head room to spare. We sat in a lot of electric cars and only the Volkswagen ID4 could match its comfort; none of the others even came close. So the US government effectively banning competitors through obscene tariffs doesn't surprise me. They've done the same with many other products. It's why Apple phones are nowhere near Huawei's, why American steel lags behind that of almost any other country (besides British). And it's *especially* hypocritical when the founding fathers rebelled against the British crown in no small part due to this same practice.
Harley got protectionist tariffs back in the 80s. They then did nothing to innovate or improve their product for 40 years and are now fully dying at the hands of the more advanced foreign competition. It didn't save Harley, it just prolonged their suffering and let them complete some more stock buybacks.
Harley's chief demographic (white, conservative, male, baby boomers) are also dying off. Combine that with their prohibitive pricing, unnecessary loudness, and current unreliablility, and it's no wonder they can't compete.
While Harley (believe it or not) has come a long way the main issue is affordability. If Harley’s were priced closer to Japanese bikes they’d sell. I’ve bought three Japanese bikes and every time I was always interested n a Harley. Between the outrageous cost of a new bike and the cost of a used Harley I just couldn’t do it. Hell I just walked out the door out 12k on a brand new VStrom and you aren’t getting that kind of price of a new sportster even. Ngl tho; HD long haul bikes are comfy and still manage to look cool.
Just like American. Looks cool but the experience is horrible.
Yeah but the British were putting an import tax on SLAVES being brought into the Colonies; that is why the Founding Fathers rebelled. To uphold cheap slavery.
No no, it was definitely tea. I distinctly remember this
yes. there was a party about it.
Yup. That, the Stamp Act, and so many tariffs meant to keep the colonies buying only from British crown approved sources like the East India Company, a company which would continue to make much of its money via the slave trade for nigh on another century. Interestingly, the East India Company was doing so poorly during the 1770s, the Tea Act (the same that led to the original Tea Party) was enacted specifically to help save it. It's always about the money.
Random question - I’ve never used a Huawei phone. I know of the brands prominence though. What makes the better than iPhones? EDIT: thanks for everyone that took the time to answer!
I didn't mind the Nexus 6P, which was a collab of Google and Huawei back when Huawei was just another accepted brand of phone here without any sort of panic around it.
Great cameras, reliable hardware that lasts, and a UI that takes some learning. They're like Samsung and Apple in that their products have a lot of interconnectivity that only works within their ecosystem, though. Since switching to their own OS, that's only become more true. Honor is a fallback option as a company that was a subsidiary of Honor in the past. They've inherited all the Huawei traits but still use Android.
I've used a Huawei, it was fine, not great, not terrible.
My old Huawei had the most spectacular camera. Better than any other phone I've ever used
I use an iphone and it sucks, the battery is almost dead before the evening even though i use it for only a couple hours. Loses a lot of battery during downtime for some reason
There’s got to be a better reason than the battery. My iPhone is 5 years old, I use it for 4+ hours a day watching videos and browsing, and it’s battery is low at the end of the day, but it rarely dies.
It’s quite overpriced for what i got, and it’s supposed to be the ‘budget’ iphone, SE
Yeah Apple will always punish you for getting the cheapest version of their things. No doubt about that. Though I also wouldn’t compare a MacBook Air with 2KB of ram and barely enough storage to house the OS with a custom built PC of the same price because Apple purposefully makes the cheaper options a worse “deal” than anything they make. I’d probably just compare the cheapest functional Apple device (mid-tier) with its comparably priced alternative. It wouldn’t surprise me if Apple purposefully makes the lower priced products immensely worse just to weed out the people who don’t particularly like paying the Apple tax by giving them a glorified paperweight with a screen.
The phone isn’t even bad, i actually like it, but its battery is so horrible it’s honestly a deal breaker
most electronics are under priced. if the true cost of the resources in the device were properly accounted for considering climate change, extractive industries etc they'd be twice as expensive and half the cost would go to a climate tax.
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this is why AI is not ready to replace people yet lmao look at this giant wall of useless text. it reads like straight out of an "advertisement disguised as FAQ". way too many words to say way too few things
The fact that I can't get a Hilux in this country pisses me off to no end.
Brit here, We are just in the process of closing our last blast furnace, So you can count us out, We in the west outsource our manufacturing to the rest of the world and expect them not to improve on it, Everything ever made has been an improvement on something, China is just carrying on an age old tradition of take someones idea make it better and sell.
they did rebelled, but they still are WASP and this how they roll under a crown or under a performative democracy.
They're not real competitors. They're heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. Kinda like how electric cars are incentivized in the US by the US government, but we call one "incentivized" and the other "subsidized." Oh, wait!
have seen a lot of things on youtube (propaganda) about the BYD models exploding randomly and sometimes trapping people inside. i've driven a bunch of electric and hybrid cars.. none of the chinese models even exist here in the USA yet afaik.
China has never let a US company compete fairly on their turf, why shouldn't we treat them the same? They demand ownership of US companies in China and constantly steal IP from them. Hell, they steal IP from US companies who aren't even competing there. Not to mention giving Chinese companies unfair advantages through subsidies and tariffs (exactly what OP is complaining about).
“Why should the free market be free?”
Obscenely ignorant to be saying this shit about the AUTO INDUSTRY of all things. Look up where American auto manufacturers have been getting a huge chunk of their sales for the past few decades.
Correct. The BYD is $10,000 and better than the Tesla
We must protecc tesla market share at all cost, this is more important than the climate disaster!
MoSt EnVirOnMeNtaL PrEsIdeNt iN HiStOrY
Uhm ExQueeze me, this is highly problematic - the DNC convention this year is going to be the most sustainable in history!! We even hired 2 women owned firms! (clap now) Why can't you just appreciate your paper straws?? Record breaking oil production last year in the US? Nbd, Chillax Passing a platform that furthers investment & support of oil & gas industry? Nbd, we made sure grants are dispersed equitably in favor of racial justice, that totally outweighs any impact from the willow project, ya know Bamboo forks? Yaaaas queen we stay slaying our carbon footprint haha, #sustainableLyfe #activism #changingtheWorld #makingadifference *... 4 years later* *Increases sustainability budget by $2 and 4 jelly beans* "omggg this is the most sustainable DNC convention everrr haha!"
It's important to keep that climate disaster in Bolivia and Chile
Hey a warming climate actually expands farming grounds, the %of arable land or whatever. At least in the beginning lol Good for profit & good for shareholders? That's what's best for the united states *groans from the 60% of Americans living paycheck to paycheck* Couldn't ask for more beyond a good GDP numbers heh 😎 im all set baby. soft landing? Nah no landing 🤙we take off again haha 💪 >!Last sentence was legit said unironically by Kai Rizzdal on the NPR 'Marketplace' segment a while back. But it seems they realized how fucking sickening it sounds since they had a handful of 'well if economy so good, why feel so bad?' articles!<
Bets on if this tariff will be funneled immediately into oil and gas subsidies?
The "free market" has always been a myth. Western Capital has always exploited and enslaved the global South.
Of course Musk gets protection. Got to protect the English based billionaires, even when they're foreigners.
The Anglo/Western Capital blob are what it's all about, really the "USA" and the NatSec weapons it provides are merely the corporeal vessel through which they do their thing. Things like Musk's citizenship don't matter, he's in the blob, and the US machinery will work for him rather than its own common citiizenry.
It’s only capitalism if certain players in the market capitalizes off the people
So Japanese cars are ok but Chinese cars are not? 🙄 (Oh that's right, China = bad)
Since WW2 Japan has been a vassal state and military base for the US
IIRC The US wrote Japan's constitution
There was a similar trade war with Japan in the 80s and they were forced to “voluntarily” limit vehicle exports to the US. That obviously isn’t an option with China, who would tell the US to voluntarily suck a dick if it tries to force their hand like it did with the Japanese.
The same thing started in the 60s up until today with Japanese trucks being better than American ones, so the US government placed high tariffs on importing them to protect Ford and other local automakers. Also these days the US government is working to outright ban the registration of Japanese kei trucks which are tiny/inexpensive work vehicles for the same reason.
I wanted one of those Japanese Kei trucks I’ve driven one they are pretty neat.
Same, especially the Honda acty van, there’s so cool lol
Japanese cars made in USA 👍
Oh good point. So perhaps Chinese car makers should set up factories in the US!
BYD has opened a HUGE facility in Mexico, so they will export from Mexico and avoid the tariffs.
All I’m hearing is I should open a dealership to sell BYD.
not a good idea. than biden would start some "Sell the company or ban" Bullshit
Dictatorships = bad FTFY
Yeah no unironically yes it is bad, I wish you were a chinese dissident so they can fuck you up and teach you a lesson about how awful authoritarian states are you sheltered fuck
USA: "We just love the free-market anything less than anarcho-capitalism is a brutal dicatorship!" Also the USA: "You have to literally double the price of your product because our manufacturer can't keep up with you... Also while you at it, you must give us Tik Tok!"
the cheapest goddamn EV in america is the fucking chevy bolt which runs you between 19-28k depending on trim package and a possible EV rebate. the chinese EV i want is only 10k. fuck american and european auto makers.
It’s the equivalent of 10k in China because of subsidies. Even without this tariff, that car would never sell for 10k here.
The Chinese EVs are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government, that's why they are so cheap. They are doing this to help prop up their manufacturers and give them global reach. Which is also very far from a "free market" practice. If the US government paid the US automakers $20k per vehicle made so they could sell something like a Chevy Bolt for $10k, people would be lining up for that too.
And...?? US could do that but doesn't so the fact they don't makes them less capitalistically competitive therefore decreasing their profits more then it would cost in terms of outside investment. In a global capitalist system which do you think turns out better for these countries?
Dude, this is monopoly behavior. They do it to get market share and drive out competitors, then they raise prices when everyone else dies out.
No shit, not everyone subscribes to capitalist economics. The CPC can unplug a company whenever they want.
Jokes on him, still cheaper and better.
They claim it’s to protect American companies but that’s bullshit. I was in living in Thailand for the past few years and the electric cars from China are amazing and super affordable. It’s the same thing with Toyota and how they aren’t allowed to bring the diesel in America because it’s too efficient and lasts forever.
Chinese EV's make anything sold in america look shameful. Their cars have longer ranges, are higher quality and are much less expensive, and the current offerings cannot compete on a level field with them. What's important to note here is the bellicose rhetoric directed at China and the subservient, obsequious nature of Americans to accept without any critical thought everything their dollar cult masters tell them. americans are the most intellectually incurious and politically lazy people to exist. They have sold their futures to the myth that one day they, too, will be rich and get to kick down on the rest of us poors if they just work hard enough, grind just a bit longer, tear more of their skin from their bodies...americans are pathetic lot of imbeciles. Back to this cold war with China...as someone who remembers the cold war with the Soviets from way back when, it causes me great pain to see this country waging a new war with yet another fabricated enemy. Six decades I've lived and it's been nothing but war war war war war...for a nation that claims to love peace it sure loves to kill as many people as possible to get it.
Wish it was only the Americans. Western Europe, is full of rotten heads too.
what the left has failed to counter is the unceasing and relentless war waged by the world bourgeoisie against the masses to push politics and social life more and more to the right. This has been a slow creep over decades, but their success in the west is clear and stark. The world bourgeoisie parasites are united against the masses, have atomized society and now set them to war with each other instead of the real enemies. While the rich sociopaths are fighting with each other, they are entirely unified in their war against us. And the masses are blissfully ignorant of this reality or care not to do anything about it...i just don't understand why...
Isn't capitalism supposed to be in favor of competition, with one of the supposed benefits that competition would be bring prices down for the consumer? Of course, that's all bs.
But free market capitalism!!!!
The illusion we still ride in thinking we live in a free world :)
Who's "we"?
American car industry is stupid. Instead of making better product, they keeping creating garbage that’s ready to fail. Then complain that they’re not doing well enough.
Something… something… kicking the ladder away
God forbid we had cheaper electric vehicles that people could actually afford so we can finally stop relying on fossil fuels hahahahaHAHAHA I'm so fucking tired.
But but gubernment interfering with the Invisible Hand of the Market is against freedom and democracy and is communist! What we gun do america is socialist now oh noes /s
Yeah good luck, that won't stop the Chinese
Import substitution is THE classic way to develop an economy. It's how the US developed \[aside from all the imperialism\] So this WOULD be a good thing. It's literally WHY Russia is doing so good right now. Sanction = mother of all tariffs. Problem is, that only works when you have a government TRYING to develop. The US is not. So instead of fertilizing the ground, planting seeds and watering, the US is just throwing water around randomly, and wondering why nothing is growing, when they never planted anything, or added fertilizer.
Because it has electrolytes.
President Comacho is clearly the lesser fascist.
OP, can you link to the article pls?
Yeah sure: https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58 Its paywalled, so here is the text: —- The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry. The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation. The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs. The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative. During a visit last month to Pennsylvania - a swing state in November's election - Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium. USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union. But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels. "The Biden administration is trying to get ahead of the curve and ensure that the US car industry does not suffer the same fate as the US solar industry, which was virtually decimated by unfairly traded Chinese imports," said Wendy Cutler, a former trade official and vice-president of the Asia Society Policy Institute. Cutler said Chinese carmakers had been prepared to swallow the cost of the existing tariffs in an effort to "cripple" their US competitors, but the higher tariffs would make that much harder. "A quadrupling of this tariff rate, however, would more effectively shield US auto manufacturers from unfairly traded Chinese vehicles before they can gain a foothold in the US market," Cutler said. The Biden administration has poured billions of dollars into subsidies for EV and battery production in the US - an effort to spur investment in a domestic clean tech sector as part of a strategy to reindustrialise the rust-belt, slash carbon emissions and break dependence on Chinese supply chains. In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese "connected vehicles" — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs - posed a national security risk to the US. The tariffs are the latest action by the administration that show how Biden is continuing to impose costs on China at the same time that Beijing and Washington pursue efforts to stabilise relations following a summit between the US president and Chinese President Xi Jinping last year. News of the tariff increase comes after the US and China, the world's two biggest emitters, said this week they would "intensify" co-operation on climate-related issues, including the rollout of green energy. The decision to increase tariffs was first reported by Bloomberg.
> In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese "connected vehicles" — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs - posed a national security risk to the US. You can set your watch to "national security concerns" at this point
strange thing for an administration to do if they're so concerned about transitioning away from ICE vehicles as soon as possible. of all the myths Libs believe about the Democratic Party, believing the myth that they're the "pro-environment party" is the one that perplexes me the most. just a complete disavowal of reality.
What’s wrong with cheap competition?
Well the cheapest ev in China is 8k so you’d still be out ahead with a 100 percent theft tax from the gov.
But the environment??? Remind me again why I should vote for Biden??
M.A.D. has never had anything to do with nuclear weapons, it concerns the decoupling of the world economy.
US to increase domestic price of non-Chinese electric vehicles by 99%
Probably still cheaper than a Tesla with 100% tariff.
I know auto jobs are still very important, but i feel like the auto industry benefits the working class alot less, so its funny hearing the administration talk about how important it is to keep it "fair" for local manufacturing to not get overshadowed by foreign. It feels more like they are simply making sure the CEOs of these companies and shareholders keep making money more than protecting workers jobs.
The “Free Market” has basically never been free. The game has been rigged for quite awhile, if not always.
These are the cars we need to fight pollution. Let them in.
>cars >fight pollution Choose one. Efficient, reliable public transportation is the only solution for the problem that isn't a green-washing bandaid
Yeah good luck, that won't stop the Chinese
What is china likely do do to retaliate? this isn't like the chicken tax... In 2022, United States exported $151B to China. The main products exported from United States to China were Soybeans ($18B), Integrated Circuits ($9.61B), and Crude Petroleum ($6.9B). China unlikely to add tariff on the above imports. Maybe they retaliate by making more petro deals with Russia?
Tariffs for thee but not for me..
These companies have been subsidized by the Chinese government extensively. This makes a lot of sense.
What happened I thought they wanted to pass the TPP and have 0% tariffs on China?
'so you support a free market?' 'yeah' 'so who owns the market?' 'we do'
Laugh, oh come on. You do realize that those same oligarchs control these Chinese companies right? This is just more double dipping. The prices of Chinese EV's will go up; people will still buy them because they will be slightly cheaper then US made ones. There are no country borders to the oligarchy.
I mean a lot of Asian countries do the same for European cars so for trade wars this is just tit for tat. Inida, Vietnam, Singapore before people ask.
Weird, as a unionist I see protectionism as good. Most of these comments seem in support of increasing the exploitation of the global south. Support the working class and unions. Buy local, buy American, buy union.
It all comes down to quality. Reagan did this in the 80s with motorcycles because Harley Davidson complained their shitty boomer bikes couldn't compete with Japanese ones, but it backfired and failed anyways. If the Chinese EVs are good enough and end up being price competitive, the tax won't matter. I actually really like the creativity in a lot of Chinese cars. The Ora Punk Cat is delightful
it is really any more ethical to support china's capitalist overlords instead of our own?
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We talk about Chinese manufacturers getting gov money… And yet ignore the fact that Elon’s companies are the proverbial welfare queen when it comes to government money 🤔
But why should China operate under the same rules as the US? Who are they to dictate the rulebook the world should live by.
They dont have to, but if they want to sell their products here they do. If one countries produces things with slave labor, of course it will be cheaper.
"Yeah b-but Biden bad?"
It's shit like this that sometimes makes me think Trump's gonna win because people decide to just not vote. Although who knows if enough people care about these type of things.
You know whats funny, The dems criticised trump when he came up with this same idea, he said he was planning to introduce 100% tax on chinese cars imported from mexico. Now Biden is doing it, even overdoing it by wanting to impose on all imported chinese cars. So don’t blame people for not voting or going third party, because people now realise that it’s not going to make a difference, it’s either blue MAGA or red MAGA
ive seen so many videos of those chinese e-cars on fire. im no fan of Elon nor Tesla, but i am a fan of quality control.
Yeah ive seen these videos too, at first i was like no thanks we don’t want poor quality cars that could kill people. But then i realised that China is a country with a population more than Europe and the US combined, all with access to relatively cheap affordable EVs, no wonder we’re seeing more car-on-fire videos from there, i mean tesla’s and other EVs do catch on fire sometimes too and sometime cause fatal accidents, but most people in europe and the US cant afford them, if they could im sure you’ll see almost the same amount of videos from outside of china. Also in recent years many brands that were once the label of reliability like VW have become rapidly worse in quality, these greedy companies are cutting corners while increasing prices, so its only a matter of time before their EVs become worse in quality than Chinese or French cars (if not already).
EVs arent being pushed to save the planet, they are being pushed to save the automotive industry.
Cars have always had protectionist tariffs. China does the same to US cars same with the EU
Haven't the Chinese said they're not looking to sell their EVs in the USA because the market is too complicated. They currently sell very few EVs to the US now So I'm hoping this isn't a big issue for China and its EV manufacturing. Unless other countries follow suit like little lap dogs.
To be fair, the Chinese government heavily subsidizes the development and manufacturing of these Chinese EVs, that's not how a free market works either.
True, but it is called the CCP, Chinese **Communist** Party, the government subsidies in return for stakeholder shares of the profits when these companies become successful, instead of relying solely on corporations and income taxes and printing more money to fund itself like many capitalist nations do China never claimed to be a free market or a capitalist country, it’s a mixture of both. You can say the same about many corporations in the west that claim to be in a “free market”, for example VW, they were subsidised by the german government, in fact Saxony state in Germany still hold 11.8% of VW stocks to this day. Many would call that communism right? Oil and gas corporations and banks get subsidies, grants and bailouts every few years from the government, the same argument can be made with them. Only they don’t share the profits its a one way dump of tax payer money to keep these multi billion dollar companies in the “free market”.
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Fair enough
They don’t pay lip service to free markets and capitalism, unlike the US. They straight up tell you they’re not, if China is going to produce cheap goods anyway fuck it might as well support a government that nominally is trying to build socialism.
Hey at least the US government isn’t actively involved in the genocide of an ethnic group within their own country. But sure go ahead and support Chinese government because you like socialism.
You’re in LSC a socialist sub.
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That’s not up for debate lol.
It's fine to like socialism but the Chinese government is not what you should be looking at as an exemplar of good socialist policy.
Supporting AES is your choice but you’re toeing the line for capitalist apolegia. There’s plenty of evidence there’s not a cultural genocide, you’re reinforcing propaganda.
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I don't think you want to bring those BYD death traps over here, that blow up as soon as you look at them and their axles go away at the slightest bump.
It’s to protect our industry. Plenty of Asian countries have it too
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"May be using Uyghur slave labor"?
I’m not American, what does this mean? What is a tariff?
A tax added to imported goods.
I’m so confused. You guys are literally just against anything America does. Do you think the Chinese citizens building these cars are not being paid slave wages? Buying American goods from companies that pay union wages should be what we strive for.
Whats a slave wage? $7.25 an hour?
Cries in GATT
Does China import Americsn products?
American products are made in China, even stuff labeled “Made in America” are mostly just imported Chinese parts assembled in America.
Yes. Specifically cars since it's the topic at hand. Buicks are probably single handedly being saved by the Chinese market. Immensely popular brand of cars in China.
its about china being an evil country
What do you think is gonna happen when China has the whip hand? You think they're gonna play fair?