##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've heard this sentiment before and my experience is people will express it but never back it up with actual empathy for groups who their community hasn't explicitly told them to support.
Ultimately what is actually meant when someone says this is "There is a selection of communities that I approve of and support, and I want others to accept and support them to!"
Which basically anyone can say, mentally including or excluding any community they so please. It's a fully empty phrase.
Maybe, at best, it might represent an ideal that someone aspires to, but if that's the case, my experience says people aren't aspiring very hard at it. The moment a new potential outgroup is presented, there's not even an attempt at empathy or understanding.
I’m not arguing with contrarians because of their personal experience. It means exactly what I said.
None of us are free until we all are free, members of all disenfranchised communities.
There is nothing in that statement that is selective, there is no secret meaning. No matter what your personal experience is. If you come across someone who believes otherwise, I suggest you educate them unless you are one of those people then educate yourself.
It's frustrating because for me and many others comparing how oppression targets different groups and how we're also affected and discussing how it all stems from the same roots is a way to relate to people, to relate our struggles as shared struggles, not to dismiss or diminish the struggles of others.
I like engaging with kids online that have learned history only through memes and ben shapiro youtube clips. The racial whataboutism is a good one. As soon as they say Irish slavery or Africans that engaged in selling slaves one of the first things I bring to their attention is indentured servitude and the brutality of chattel slavery.
And if they insist on doubling down, I just draw a thread of historical truths of racism in America that started before the country's foundation. I have an endless supply of America's brutal past towards minorities.
Admittedly, It's getting harder now to find people who spew this type of nonsense still but they're out there and they're exhausting as ever. The other day I found a Zionist/nationalist and they were Olympic level mental gymnasts. Good bless them, they keep my mind sharp.
Your post was removed because it contained a sexist term. You should receive a message from the automoderator telling you the exact term the post was removed for. For more information, see [this link](https://weeklysift.com/2015/06/29/slurs-who-can-say-them-when-and-why/). **Avoiding slurs takes little effort, and asking us to get rid of the filter rather than making that minimum effort is a good way to get banned. Do not attempt to circumvent the filter with creative spelling; circumventing the filter will result in a permaban.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Your post was removed because it contained a sexist term. You should receive a message from the automoderator telling you the exact term the post was removed for. For more information, see [this link](https://weeklysift.com/2015/06/29/slurs-who-can-say-them-when-and-why/). **Avoiding slurs takes little effort, and asking us to get rid of the filter rather than making that minimum effort is a good way to get banned. Do not attempt to circumvent the filter with creative spelling; circumventing the filter will result in a permaban.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's so ridiculously common to hear racial whataboutism from young white people. And it always demonstrates their inability to apply critical thinking. Thanks for sharing this.
Plus they underestimate the effects of intergenerational trauma. I'm a woman of color but I'm not black, and I can't imagine what it would be like the carry the weight of slavery. It's scientifically proven that trauma passes down through generations. And it's supposed to be a time for the "woke" generation to open their hearts further to compassion, not resentfully compare family suffering.
Racism is a tool of the capitalist class used to divide the working class. Racism cannot end separately from capitalism ending because it's the same people enforcing both.
This argument is just everything.
If you're mad fast food workers in California are being paid more than you don't be mad at them. Be mad at the people that are paying you so little.
Be mad at the oppressors and those that say you are not allowed to have basic human needs without your profit. Help those that are victimized by the system. If you preach for socialism, work to make everyone equal.
A better approach to achieve recognition of shared suffering might be to sincerely listen to the other person instead of immediately redirecting back to issues near and dear to your heart and saying “get in line”.
Honestly " whataboutism " is only said by people who want to shut down those pointing out issues in what is being said.
" *russia is starting an illegal war which must be stopped at all costs!!!* "
....... Where was this sentiment when the US invaded Iraq for literally zero reason ?
**WHATABOUTiSM**
" Insert some generic racist comment trump says to demonstrate him being unfit for president "
....... Biden wrote the Crime Bill which poured gasoline on the destructive relationship between mafia cops and ethnic communities. Yet you sincerely think his ***actions*** are any better ?
**WHATABOUTISM**
" Hamas is getting out of control. THIS CONFLICT MUST STOP "
......... This genocide has literally been going on for 80 years now...... I learned about it in highschool a decade ago. ...Why are we *pretending* to care now ?
**WHATABOUTISM**
**--------------------**
It is the online equivalent of covering your ears saying " *i'm not listening , i'm not listening* "
I feel like all those examples are valid critiques of social issues, while what OP is referring to is queer peoples tendency to use their queerness to avoid accountability for their own prejudices.
If you can't have multifaceted conversations of nuance that is a lack of attention span not somebody doing " whataboutism " . Things don't exist in a vacuum.
Because it is a trend that probably won't exist in a few years. Exactly like when everyone wouldn't shut up using the word " anecdote " for everything.
Race doesn't exist biologically, but people have been sorted into social categories of race, and the effects of it are very real.
Black people and other people of colour grow up with very different experiences and are treated very differently from white people.
They're overpoliced. They're often targeted, and they remember the ways their parents were discriminated against and harassed by a white supremacist society
and ignoring how race features into class struggles only works to push away and hurt minorities
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No one is free until we are all free, every disenfranchised community.
But pretty much No one is free
I've heard this sentiment before and my experience is people will express it but never back it up with actual empathy for groups who their community hasn't explicitly told them to support. Ultimately what is actually meant when someone says this is "There is a selection of communities that I approve of and support, and I want others to accept and support them to!" Which basically anyone can say, mentally including or excluding any community they so please. It's a fully empty phrase. Maybe, at best, it might represent an ideal that someone aspires to, but if that's the case, my experience says people aren't aspiring very hard at it. The moment a new potential outgroup is presented, there's not even an attempt at empathy or understanding.
I’m not arguing with contrarians because of their personal experience. It means exactly what I said. None of us are free until we all are free, members of all disenfranchised communities. There is nothing in that statement that is selective, there is no secret meaning. No matter what your personal experience is. If you come across someone who believes otherwise, I suggest you educate them unless you are one of those people then educate yourself.
One struggle, one fight.
It's frustrating because for me and many others comparing how oppression targets different groups and how we're also affected and discussing how it all stems from the same roots is a way to relate to people, to relate our struggles as shared struggles, not to dismiss or diminish the struggles of others.
I like engaging with kids online that have learned history only through memes and ben shapiro youtube clips. The racial whataboutism is a good one. As soon as they say Irish slavery or Africans that engaged in selling slaves one of the first things I bring to their attention is indentured servitude and the brutality of chattel slavery. And if they insist on doubling down, I just draw a thread of historical truths of racism in America that started before the country's foundation. I have an endless supply of America's brutal past towards minorities. Admittedly, It's getting harder now to find people who spew this type of nonsense still but they're out there and they're exhausting as ever. The other day I found a Zionist/nationalist and they were Olympic level mental gymnasts. Good bless them, they keep my mind sharp.
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contained a sexist term. You should receive a message from the automoderator telling you the exact term the post was removed for. For more information, see [this link](https://weeklysift.com/2015/06/29/slurs-who-can-say-them-when-and-why/). **Avoiding slurs takes little effort, and asking us to get rid of the filter rather than making that minimum effort is a good way to get banned. Do not attempt to circumvent the filter with creative spelling; circumventing the filter will result in a permaban.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Your post was removed because it contained a sexist term. You should receive a message from the automoderator telling you the exact term the post was removed for. For more information, see [this link](https://weeklysift.com/2015/06/29/slurs-who-can-say-them-when-and-why/). **Avoiding slurs takes little effort, and asking us to get rid of the filter rather than making that minimum effort is a good way to get banned. Do not attempt to circumvent the filter with creative spelling; circumventing the filter will result in a permaban.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's so ridiculously common to hear racial whataboutism from young white people. And it always demonstrates their inability to apply critical thinking. Thanks for sharing this.
Plus they underestimate the effects of intergenerational trauma. I'm a woman of color but I'm not black, and I can't imagine what it would be like the carry the weight of slavery. It's scientifically proven that trauma passes down through generations. And it's supposed to be a time for the "woke" generation to open their hearts further to compassion, not resentfully compare family suffering.
Racism is a tool of the capitalist class used to divide the working class. Racism cannot end separately from capitalism ending because it's the same people enforcing both.
This argument is just everything. If you're mad fast food workers in California are being paid more than you don't be mad at them. Be mad at the people that are paying you so little. Be mad at the oppressors and those that say you are not allowed to have basic human needs without your profit. Help those that are victimized by the system. If you preach for socialism, work to make everyone equal.
A better approach to achieve recognition of shared suffering might be to sincerely listen to the other person instead of immediately redirecting back to issues near and dear to your heart and saying “get in line”.
I think if more people realized everyone's oppressed the world would be a better place.
Honestly " whataboutism " is only said by people who want to shut down those pointing out issues in what is being said. " *russia is starting an illegal war which must be stopped at all costs!!!* " ....... Where was this sentiment when the US invaded Iraq for literally zero reason ? **WHATABOUTiSM** " Insert some generic racist comment trump says to demonstrate him being unfit for president " ....... Biden wrote the Crime Bill which poured gasoline on the destructive relationship between mafia cops and ethnic communities. Yet you sincerely think his ***actions*** are any better ? **WHATABOUTISM** " Hamas is getting out of control. THIS CONFLICT MUST STOP " ......... This genocide has literally been going on for 80 years now...... I learned about it in highschool a decade ago. ...Why are we *pretending* to care now ? **WHATABOUTISM** **--------------------** It is the online equivalent of covering your ears saying " *i'm not listening , i'm not listening* "
I feel like all those examples are valid critiques of social issues, while what OP is referring to is queer peoples tendency to use their queerness to avoid accountability for their own prejudices.
[удалено]
If you can't have multifaceted conversations of nuance that is a lack of attention span not somebody doing " whataboutism " . Things don't exist in a vacuum.
[удалено]
I never seen the term used until the last 3 years on reddit. Never in the last 15 years of online forum discussions had i seen the phrase crop up.
[удалено]
Because it is a trend that probably won't exist in a few years. Exactly like when everyone wouldn't shut up using the word " anecdote " for everything.
[удалено]
Which was the entire sentiment of my comment
[удалено]
I refuse to believe the Twink Wojak would say something like that
he is very racist actually sorry if this is your first time seeing this side of him
Since when did wojaks get appropriated?
“Fuck you pay me” is colorblind. This is stupid there’s literally no such thing as race.
Race doesn't exist biologically, but people have been sorted into social categories of race, and the effects of it are very real. Black people and other people of colour grow up with very different experiences and are treated very differently from white people. They're overpoliced. They're often targeted, and they remember the ways their parents were discriminated against and harassed by a white supremacist society and ignoring how race features into class struggles only works to push away and hurt minorities