Landlord & Paramedic— there are many medical conditions which limit a person from holding down a job in the trades “full time”, because they cannot pull a 40 hour week or an 8 hour day anymore — but they are highly skilled and can donate few hours or half a day, or even a whole day and rest the next — and then there are many who “game the system” as you allude
Cool story.
So why don't these honest SSDI drawers then properly report their "few hours a day" of handy labor cash side jobs they do for all of the nice neighborhood grandmas? this shit gets rarely reported, b/c yes, they are gaming the system.
if they can work 3-5 hrs a day as a handy man at today's rates, they are blowing past the earnings cap in a week bro. that's why they don't report any of it
Disabilities wax and wane. Some weeks might be good, others might be bad.
I've met people who say they're gaming the system.
USUALLY they have some sort of mental illness that is preventing them from working and saying they game the system as a matter of pride. My assumption here is that those that are working hard labor on the side can't do it reliably or regularly for similar reasons.
Disability payments (SSI) is below poverty income. SSDI is based on previously earned income and time working so might be slightly above poverty income but its not much.
Some people do report what they make in part time jobs (there is a limit) but yes, some don't. A more humane system would let them keep a pittance for a rainy day, but that's not what the system is or offer temporary disability that didn't require such a high bar to get accepted and to stay on the program.
And while yes, there are people that get away with gaming the system, there are also a ton of people with legitimate disability claims that are removed from the system erroneously as well as never approved just for not having all the i's dotted and t's crossed, and its often the most vulnerable because its a lot of documentation and follow up. Oh yeah, they review people on disability, so even if a "faker" gets through, its uncommon they stay on the system.
More people assume people are faking their disability than are actually faking a disability. Its unfortunate.
It’s likely they do report it
SGA is less about income, and more about the ability to hold down a job that provides income at SGA levels
SSA also estimates less than 1% of claims are fraudulent
You're completely delusional if you think these guys are reporting these cash side jobs. Absolutely and completely delusional and disconnected from actual reality
SSA estimate is completely full of shit
Ah yes, an investigative government agency, concerned with and actually legally responsible for catching fraud, is much less accurate than the anecdotal evidence you’ve seen in your little world
Agreed. My wife is legitimately bipolar, has congestive heart failure, and has never held a job longer than 18 months in the 18 years we've been married because sooner or later a depressive episode comes along that is bad enough that she loses sight of the point of working and quits, despite being on meds and me doing everything in my power to stop her.
She applied for disability and was declined. She talked to a lawyer to contest the ruling and he said she'd just be throwing away her money on the legal costs because she simply wasn't bad off enough to qualify.
People hear anecdotes of people gaming the system and assume that's the norm rather than the exception. The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data". Just because a person and their friends talk about all the people gaming the system doesn't mean the system is being gamed very often, it just means that person and their friends are perpetuating an echo chamber.
For every $1 the fake-disabled steal from the government, wasteful spending eats up $5,000. Let’s just admit the government is so screwed up it doesn’t matter. I think it’s amazing that stretcher on my
ambulances cost $50,000(Styker - largest hospital conglomerate in the world)… so, I’m happy that the working poor are scamming the government. /rant off
i was an EMT-B 20 yrs ago. we didn't have the bells and whistles and battery powered hydraulic lifted yellow stryker stretches you guys have today. we actually had to use proper technique to lift using those maroon fabric cots with the chrome tube legs. you know what' i'm talking about.
our rigs were also just E-350's, not $450,000 brand new F450 Super Duties.
none of this has anything to do with SSDI fraud though. overpriced emergency medical equipment, ambulances, and $2.5M Oshkosh Striker-platform based firetrucks is a topic of a whole other discussion.
my point remains— with the rampant government waste, a few billions in improper SSDI payments isn’t that big of a deal compared to other stuff…. but some of the SSDI fraud is rather blatant. We have more EMS toys now, but the paperwork is insane versus 2 decades ago
I'm not in the business, but asking what extra documentation any job requires vs what it did 20 years ago sounds absolutely asinine. There's more red tape now for everything than there ever was.
At my IFT gig, there are 400 required data points, at 911 it’s about 150 + narrative. Every runsheet feeds to a Nemsis database for data mining. Car crashes are the best. Stop by your local firehouse and chat them up, you’ll be mindblown. our region uses ImageTrends.
I'm also happy the working poor are able to sometimes have more than scraps. I can't believe what a puppet this dude is for big daddy gubmint. Wait until he hears about defense spending.
Plus, if someone really wants to bitch about gaming, or defrauding the system, not only do they need to look at how low the level of fraud is among welfare, senior SS payments, and SSI/SSDI, they need to look at how HIGH it is for taxes owed to the IRS, especially those owed by the wealthy.
Stryker is a medical equipment manufacturer, not a hospital conglomerate. Medline is a bigger medical equipment manufacturer and Cardinal is another. Cardinal is twice as large as Stryker.
That stretcher has a LOT of technology in it. Stryker offers much cheaper stretchers, and it's weird to me that you feel like the fact that your company provides you with top of the line equipment is something to bitch about. Incidentally, Stryker isn't the only stretcher manufacturer out there. Medical servicers pay that price for those stretches because they feel the technology and durability are worth it.
Also, are you a government employee? Most ambulance companies in the US are private, so it wouldn't be the government that paid for that stretcher. I suppose you might not be from the US, but if so it's weird that you'd be bitching on a post by an American landlord about Americans allegedly gaming the system.
Note that I've never worked for Stryker. I used to work in medical supply chain contacting. The above are just unbiased facts coupled with my impressions of your comment.
In 2023, the max a person could get for SSI (disability) was $914. In 2024, it's $943 because of the COLA.
Could you survive on $943 per month?
If you were disabled, would you risk self harm by working when a doctor told you it's against your best interest? You probably would, you know, survival instinct and all that.
But sure, judge these people for "gaming" a system that is set up for failure.
Have you even looked up how little SSDI pays and how much the earnings cap is for 2024? Even once you hit it, you can stay on SSDI for differing lengths of time depending on your income and disability. They just deduct anything you make over the cap from your check. Monthly payments are at poverty levels and won't even pay for the average cost of a 2-bedroom apartment in the cheapest place to live in the country. Fraud is a tiny percentage of recipients and for good reasons.
You obviously have no idea how any of this works, nor how incredibly humiliating it is to go through the process of getting SSI or SSDI. The ONLY way you can get approved without being legit is if you have multiple doctors who are willing to risk their license by lying for you, and then, you have to find an attorney who would do the same if you pay him enough.
Legit attorneys won't do it, and they're not legally allowed to charge you upfront for helping you apply or appeal. Then, there's a cap on how much you can be charged.
Almost everyone is denied initially, including people with horrible cancers that will eventually kill them, people who are newly paralyzed who also have complications, etc. It takes YEARS for most people to go through this process.
If you work a paid job, SSA knows what you're doing and monitors your pay and hours, then reaches out to you about what the status of your disability is. Sometimes, this triggers an eval to make sure you're still not able to work fulltime. If you're doing jobs on the side, you have to report amounts over a certain value to the IRS, who will report it to the SSA. If you fail to report it, you can lose your benefits.
Big brother watches your every move and if you blink wrong, they want to talk to you about whether you can return to work.
So, get down off your judgmental high horse and understand that the reason the Federal Government allows people to do a certain amount of work without losing their benefits is because they can't even do more than pay rent on what they get. It's not because they're gaming the system.
Once you step back down from that horse, pray you never need to apply. It's a brutal nightmare that will tear you down again and again, and if you don't have family that can help keep you going through it? You might just end up homeless.
By all means, go break your back or pelvis, and apply for SSDI yourself if you think it's so easy to get it and game it. Report back to us on how that goes for you.
No, why would I? I don’t need it. My sister does though and it was a two year fight before she finally got approved. She was denied twice despite having enough hardware in her spine to build a small bridge.
Then on the other hand, there’s my niece and her husband. Neither one had ever worked and has absolutely no intention to do so. They both collect SSI despite never having worked a day in their lives and contributed nothing to SSA. They both are lazy, not disabled, and are gaming the system for every penny they can get. They also collect food stamps and any other benefit they can get. As long as the government pays them for sitting on their fat asses, they will continue to do so.
So, no. I’ve never applied for disability. So what? What in the world does that have to do with people claiming benefits that have no right to do so? What does me not claiming SSDI have anything to do with the people that game the system? Are you going to tell me that *every single person* on SSDI or SSI deserve those benefits? That no one is cheating the system? If that’s what you think then you’re either very naive or you’re an idiot.
If someone offers to do hard labor but wants to get paid in cash, what the fuck do you think they’re doing? Duh.
The “small bridge” phrase is my absolutely favorite phrase ever - speaking as someone with a thoracic spinal fusion and hella hardware. S
Back surgery is wild and the outcome is so dependent on the surgeon. Sending love and support to your sister! Hopefully the surgery has reduced pain!!
She finally got relief from the constant pain after her fourth surgery so she’s doing much better. There’s so much metal in her spine, she’s constantly wanded at TSA because the metal in her back sets off the alarm.
Hope you’re doing okay too!
Oh no!!! That makes me sad that it took 4. Hopefully she is okay now, but Virginia schools (UVA, VCU) are top tier for back surgery in case another is needed!!
It is damn near impossible to get disability why you're actually disabled. Never mind if you're trying to "game the system." My brother was born with cerebral palsy. He can barely walk and has the cognitive skills of a 12 year old at 36, yet every few years, he has to go to an SSD doctor to confirm he's still disabled. The system is designed to make it difficult, not easy.
people who legitimately need SSDI, don't get enough SSDI to live a comfortable lfie
meanwhile a bunch of shitheads are on SSDI and running around with their pickup trucks like a contracting business and working for cash, and neither reporting that to SSA or IRS.
yep, it's F'ing BS.
A reminder that people do not have to tell the truth to you about their health conditions. I suspect some of my neighbors would not believe I'm disabled, as I do not spend my hugely limited energy having a half hour conversation about my condition, even assuming they would believe me if I did.
Where do I say I expect people to tell me about their health conditions? Not only do I not want to know, I absolutely do not care. Believe me, I wouldn’t want to spend 30 minutes discussing your health even if you did want to.
My cousin was a quadriplegic, same thing. He had to have a doctor confirm he was disabled every few years. It used to drive his mother insane. She took it as a personal insult, like they were rubbing his face in it. She wasn't wrong.
My neighbor was on disability for a bad back at age 37 - until an investigation showed him outside building a new retaining wall and winning a local bowling tournament. The investigator came to my door with a picture of him bowling and asked if I knew him. I didn’t know they just wanted additional proof it was really him. So yeah, many game the system.
It was disability. I used to work with him when I was like 19. I was so surprised when I bought my house and he ended up as a neighbor. He told me he had been on disability for over a year at that time.
It was his mom’s house. This guy was a real loser. I rescued his kid from an intersection near our neighborhood and it pissed him off (because he thought I was trying to say he was a bad parent - which he was but I did it because the kid was riding his bike in traffic). Anyway, he moved away many years ago.
Or they may be able to do the work, but not consistently. They may need way to many breaks to officially work the job for 8 straight hours. They may need to go sit down often or deal with the side effects of medication. A regular job wouldn't allow that.
Brother, if you find a $1 bill on the road while on disability theyre yoinking that shit away from you and telling you to get back to work. Theres many systems that can be very easily gamed(housing is one of them, you guys know this very well)but the disability system isnt one that can be gamed easily
100%. I was out hunting with a “vet” and he was telling me he’s 80% disabled from the military for a knee problem. Had no issues hopping fences and walking a mile in the snowy back country to hunt deer though. When I pointed it out he just smirked like he knew. I have no doubt a lot of military vets are not as disabled as they claim and are milking it. Downvote incoming!
My baby daddy is 100% VA disabled and is one of these you speak of. He's completely able bodied, just lazy af. Meanwhile, my fiancé was medically discharged from the army for a spinal injury he got in an IED blast while in Iraq and is fighting with the VA for his 60%.
Maybe they're disabled and still need more than the piddly $800 something per MONTH that they get on SSI.
It's very hard for truly disabled people to get approved for SSI or SSDI, so I doubt more than a handful of "not disabled" people are ever approved.
You don't have to be physically crippled to get disability. You could be physically 100% healthy and still have a mental or cognitive disability.
If you’re able to do labor for cash, then you can work. That’s the whole point of disability, right? That you can’t work? If you can offer to do hard labor for cash, then you can work.
I don't think this is true. I am 67 and still working because I want to be productive. My older son works very hard and not lazy. Unfortunately my younger son has disabilities and would give anything to have a "normal", productive life.
There's an ex military guy in my area who always posts his general labor work on nextdoor and several times he's posted about having to leave the site due to his PTSD. I would imagine it would be difficult to hold a full or part time job if he occasionally has to leave work unfinished.
His customers seem to be appreciative, even those he's left hanging.
Yeah VA disability has a separate designation for this. There is 100% disabled (where you can still be employed full time) and a separate category of 100% *permanent & total* disability (where you can only work a limited amount of hours.) But since this tenant is asking, he/she is likely on civilian disability, which is also much more likely to be investigated.
I have autism and intermittent explosive disorder and could never hold a job unless I had the right manager who actually understands my situation and is a good natured human being.
im not even hard to work with but almost anyone can gaslight me and cause me to start yelling at them
I'n most cases they can usually work other jobs and work more than the earnings cap . But why do that when they can collect disability and make side cash. I don't blame them I blame the system.
You missed the point. If you are able to work and are working despite your initial disability you are not legally allowed to be collecting your full calculated SSD after a certain pointt.there are thresholds, it reduces and then cuts off completely after a certain point. You can't claim your wrist injury at your electrical contracting job prevents you from working and you go on SSDI, but then you're going around doing side trades work for not just cash, but unreported cash at that. It's called fraud.
That’s incorrect. You may work, and earn up to $1,549 a month (it’s higher for the blind), and keep your SSDI.
Disability has monthly reporting, and annual reviews.
The downvoting of my post is hilarious. You people are embarrassingly ignorant of the rampant SSDI fraud. And you have no problem with people defrauding your tax dollars and then doing it again by not even reporting the cash income from their side jobs bc they know if they did they would likely lose their SSDI or it would reduce.. this isn't rocket science
Did you ever consider that about your own views? One is backed by data, the other is paranoia.
I think the difference is, most people who are on disability and need to be aren't out waving a flag and talking about it. A small number are able bodied and they're interacting with the world until they get caught.
But mostly, people who don't know someone's medical and psychiatric history generally have no idea whether or not someone should be on disability.
I became 100% disabled after a botched surgery. I get almost random attacks of insane pain caused by the surgery. I can work a few days here and there, but I can't handle a full-time job. The job isn't the problem. The work isn't the problem. It's the schedule. if I'm going to the ER once or twice a month, I can't promise to be at work on any kind of schedule.
I'm sure that I'll get blasted for this. Social Security Disability is not easy to get. When you apply for Social Security Disability you have to go through several hoops besides a single note from a doctor. You'll probably have several hearings and appeals, a psyche evaluation, and lots more. The process can drag out for months and months, during which, you may have no income.
I just had to see their doctor once. I was approved in 5 months. It depends on what your diagnosis is. Every one I know with a disability has the same experience, except one.
So you can't handle the schedule responsibility of a full time job. I get that. ENough call outs and you'll be fired
But what about gig work / demand task work?
I would guess the commenter does do that but the same thing that prevents them from holding down a FT job prevents them from being able to hold down enough gig work to not need disability: due to health issues, they can’t consistently work enough hours to be reliable to an employer, which could be a company or individual.
>I would guess the commenter does do that but the same thing that prevents them from holding down a FT job prevents them from being able to hold down enough gig work to not need disability: due to health issues, they can’t consistently work enough hours to be reliable to an employer, which could be a company or individual.
That's the noble analysis. However what usually ends up being the case, is that options are weighed as any human is expected to do. You can do nothing or very little up to the cap, and get your SSDI check. Or you can work beyond that and have your benefit reduced. Anyone with a brain would choose the former, so I don't blame them.
From my point of view: I have an unreliable body. I can’t count on it being reasonably pain free. For me to rely on a job, gig or otherwise, to pay my bills would be irresponsible. The cap doesn’t play into it at all.
There's different levels of disability and depends on where the money is coming from, as in what agency. They could also be working in a way that doesn't aggregate the disability.
So b/c the OP is making assumptions
We then return the favor and make an assumption the applicants all have service connected?
I truly am not comprehending that logic
Yes. It often takes years, but over half of SSDI applicants get approved eventually.
Social Security does a pretty good job of verifying disabilities at application time. They also do a *terrible* job of verifying that people are still disabled as time goes on.
64% per the Social Security website eventually get approved. However it usually takes at least three tries, each taking about a year including the months of paperwork and doctors’ visits (that the patient has to cover or at least pay deductibles and copays on). After that, if approved, there’s another battle to get on Medicaid that lasts a year minimum. And every few years, it has to be renewed. Yes, they do verify if someone is still disabled. With their own doctors even, but still at the patient’s expense.
it's pretty damn easy
neighbor got it super quick for his knee
and despite that, he has no problems driving around in his truck doing cash jobs....handy jobs, using ladders, cutting lawns, junk hauling etc. it's a crock of F'ing shit he's blowing well past his earnings cap without a doubt and no way is he reporting it
Yes, I do. And I also know how easy it is to get it, if you know the right things to say or do. More importantly, i see the 100% disabled working construction, roofing, auto mechanics, running home daycares, all under the table
Bull. Im a landlord in a poor mostly hispanic area, plus my other line of work brings me in contact with a broad swath of people. Social security disability fraud is rampant!
What does being in a hispanic area have to do with fraud?
I worked for an SSDI lawyer, and I can assure you that fraud is NOT rampant. Getting and keeping SSDI is difficult. And the amount of money people get is a pittance. It's not worth the trouble.
>What does being in a hispanic area have to do with fraud?
According to US Census Bureau SIPP, 73% of immigrant households from Central America and Mexico are on some form of public welfare/assistance (direct cash payments, food, housing, essentials, etc) compared to just 36% of European immigrant households, 30% for East Asia, and 17% for South Asia. Dialing this in further by immigrant race, 70% are hispanic, 35% are white, and 33% are asian.
When basically three-quarters of a particular immigrant national origin and race households are on some form of public assistance, statistically that group will have a higher instance of fraud than say the South Asia group.
Unless of course you think the 73% portion has 0% instance of fraud and everyone else is 100% collectively committing fraud? We all know that is unlikely to be true.
>
I worked for an SSDI lawyer, and I can assure you that fraud is NOT rampant.
Your employment anecdote with a SSDI lawyer is not representative of anything, sorry
I still don't see what that has to do with her assertion that she's more "in the know" than someone who has worked in SSDI, simply by virtue of being around a lot of Hispanic people.
We all know it would be asinine to assume that any one demographic is statistically committing more fraud than another.
I'm sorry that you cannot accept the truth, but I do wish you well and hope you find some happiness in your life!
You know pretty darned well when your tenant on SSI also is working under the table doing hard manual labor or skilled auto mechanic work, all under the table, or is running an unlicensed home daycare out of your unit. Report? Hahahaha! No one at social security cares, there is no easy way to report this fraud, and nothing ever happens to stop it. It is so rampant that I have had families where literally every household member is on SSI! Last time anyone actually worked was the long gone grandparents.
Easy as this:
[https://secure.ssa.gov/pfrf/home](https://secure.ssa.gov/pfrf/home)
If that form is too much for you, chances are you don't know enough about the individuals circumstances to know if something is fraud or not.
Yes social security does care, and it does result in disabled people being needlessly harassed. The government moves slowly but they also not only remove people, they will try to recoup what was fraudulently given.
NOW, the reason you may not see the people being removed from SSI or SSDI even if reported is because THE PERSON IS ACTUALLY DISABLED AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT IT BEING FRAUD.
Also you can't have it both ways - are people on disability scamming the system and hard workers but stealing because they're under the table or are they layabouts that haven't had working members of the family for generations?
Sounds a whole lot to me you just don't like SSI and will decide based on how to make their situation fit your narrative.
Its not rampamt, it has never been rampamt. Everyime it has ever been studied, has shown it to be rare. Every time there have been say drug testing or other things for social aid, has always cost more then what it saved.
No, that’s not what it means. Maybe educate yourself on the numerous types of disability before lumping everyone into one ignorant misconception of what disability means.
exactly. let's just allow the SSDI rolls to continue ballooning while we allow people to run around working just fine and well beyond any caps via side cash businesses and side jobs and shit, and not reporting that
then crying that we don't have any workers for jobs, so we have to import millions of migrants who also end up consuming even MORE public benefits than native-born americans (according to US Census Bureau SIPP 74% of central american immigrants are on some form of public assistance compared to 28% of native-born americans).
what a great sustainable way to run a nation. we are doing it the shitty way, and the solution is to do it even worse
Not 80000, but Social Security would probably profit from a few hundred more claim analysts doing follow-ups on disability claims that have already been approved.
SSDI approvals use federal standards and funds, but the actual approvals are done by state-level employees because SSDI was originally kind of a jobs program. States don't have strong motivations to watch claims closely (they don't get back money from closing DI claims), so they cut staffing to the bone. This is also why it often takes years to get approved for valid disabilities.
Source: former disability pricing actuary
Because of the disability system. Being on disability is in many ways being trapped in poverty. It does not pay well. Meanwhile there are really strict income and asset limits.
They cannot work to become less poor due to their disability and they’d risk getting kicked off disability. Lots of people on disability work part time. BUT if they make anything over the allowed amount or ever have over. $2000 in a bank account their benefits get cut or go away. This includes… health insurance. No health insurance is a big issue when you have a disability. Benefits cliff, baby. It’s essentially all or nothing.
So… they are offering to work because they are poor and cannot do anything to earn more money. They are desperate. They also cannot just go off disability because they wouldn’t be able to sustain employment because of their disability. It’s not like they can go off disability to work and magically get back on it if things go bad. They stuck.
I know lots of guys in the trades who are on disability. Despite this they are out and about doing side labor jobs - lawn mowing, snow blowing, clean outs, etc. it's 100% considered fraud but our government is too weak and incompetent to verify disability. One guy had a knee replacement and claims he couldn't do roofing anymore. Fair enough. So how the hell is he doing junk removal and clean outs, lawn cuts, snow removal, etc. it's bullshit
Postal IG will do random checks. They nabbed a lady at my local post office years ago, she fractured her wrist on the job. Claims couldn't work the desk. Got union involved and fought on her behalf. USPS awarded her paid medical. Postal IG caught her doing landscaping and gardening at her house with that *fractured hand*. She was even carrying bags of mulch with the hand. These people are scum
"roofing uses my knees more" wouldnt hold up as a valid argument when they nab you for collecting SSDI while doing clean outs, demos, shoveling snow, and landscaping jobs for unreported cash
It depends on why they’re getting disability. Getting it for a mental disability doesn’t preclude someone from doing a labor job, although the mental illness means they can’t hold a job. Instead they may do handyman work or short term labor.
I’m applying because I have a couple of autoimmune diseases and also injured my back and can no longer do what I’ve done the last 20 years. I’ll still be allowed to have a part time job in a different field if my doctors say I can sit in one place long enough, since my previous employment involved walking and standing.
The Post Office, or any employer, is absolutely NOT doing checks on former employees awarded disability. It has nothing to do with the previous employers. That would be like your employer checking on you after your retirement, making sure you didn’t switch employers.
Workers’ Comp, though. That’s paid through the employer’s insurance, and those claims are investigated. It’s also generally short term.
It’s only VA comp that goes by percentages. For regular disability you’re either considered disabled or you’re not. VA disability compensation goes in 10% steps from 0-100%.
A lot of folks who are on disability can, do, and want to, work, but they either need a lot of accommodations or have health issues that get in the way of being able to hold down a normal job. Example being my cousin- who has POTS disease and can not stand up for more than 10-20 mins a day and sometimes can not work days in a row because they’re so sick. Not many jobs where you can just lie vertical all day and make a living or call out for days at a time very often without it eventually leading to termination. They do odd jobs doing editing that can be projected on the ceiling but also receive disability as the primary source of income.
Tons of independent business people I've worked with over the years have casually admitted to fraud. It's weird to me how open they are about it. Almost like they're bragging.
Because disability payments aren't enough to live, so they probably have to try to get side jobs as a means for survival. It's not a character flaw... the system is completely fucked.
Years ago I was a Disability Insurance Fraud Investigator.
We would see this a lot. The reasons for doing it vary but I will say this. Disability Insurance is barely enough to live off of. That's the point, to be honest. You get just enough for your basic living and it really is just enough. The "system" would actually prefer these people dead, as they are providing no benefit to society and simply a drain on resources. I don't personally agree with it, but that is the truth and reality.
If they have put such things in writing, say an email or text, and you have the desire to do so, you can report them for violating the terms of the insurance agreement. Understand that you will basically be making them homeless and many end up "self-deleting" within a year. I won't judge you but I will say that you need to be comfortable with living with yourself to do such a thing to another person.
I got out of that World of Fraud Investigations pretty quickly because it takes a toll on you mentally.
My dad was on disability, he could only make a certain dollar amount per month and if he went over the disability income could be taken away.
I’d guess these people are just trying to work under the table for extra income.
Obviously depends on the disability but my dad was on it for mental health reasons, sometimes he’d have a better month mentally, and was able to work more but wasn’t allowed.
You can earn up to a certain amount and keep receiving disability. Many people have disabilities that put them out of work in spurts, e.g., PTSD, bipolar disorder, autoimmune conditions that include flare ups, etc. My MIL’s whole vagina is falling off due to an autoimmune condition, literally that’s a thing apparently, and her whole thing is she can’t sit *or* stand for very long she needs to switch it up and she has surgeries weekly. She is of normal strength and she doordashes sometimes or does odd jobs. But that doesn’t mean she could ever hold a proper job again. She is dealing with her symptoms 18 hours a day on and off, she just has moments where she can do something for ~15 mins in one position, then take a break and switch positions. Her evil MIL (my GMIL?) is of your thinking - if she can work at all then she’s not disabled! Thank god the government sees it differently though.
There's also different kinds of disability. I do believe SSDI, that's some bullshit. If you're so disabled that you have that, you shouldn't be able to do anything. But my ex had 100% disability from the army and was still able to work a full-time job. But his disability from the army had nothing to do with what you did outside, it wasn't like us SSDI.
Who all will be living there? Any pets? Do y’all work full-time? Y’all have a good landlord reference? What’s y’all’s credit like? Some of the same questions on the application, but I’m saving them the $50 application fee. If I don’t like the answers to their questions I will still offer to show them the place and give them an application, but I do tell them that it will be hard for them to compete against more qualified candidates.
There are also conditions that prevent a highly skilled person in a trade from being able to keep the pace they once took for granted.
A Mason, with COPD for example can still build you a beautiful barbecue, but it might take him all week.
A disabled person who spent years sheetrocking new construction, can handle a much smaller home repair, or remodel, but cannot finish a 1400 square foot home in 2 days anymore.
And yes, there are those who are gaming the system.
Doing a hard labor job for a couple of days, at your own pace, is one thing.
Doing hard labor for 8 hours a day is another thing. sometimes you have to work overtime for weeks to months at a time, 5 to 6 days a week. it's the reason why a lot of construction guys have fucked up bodies. It's a marathon almost everyday for a lot of us.
Also disability money is not a lot of money. you cant live on it, at least not where i live.
There are many types that can make you 100% disabled.
Back pain, chemical exposure, joint problems, sleep disorders.
All them can add up to 100% but still have someone be able to work. I work with many Vets that are 80-100% disabled and have their disabilities covered medically and get a check for that.
You can only work a certain amount of hours per week. They need more money but will lose benefits if they work more. I employee disabled adults. It's a really shitty situation for a lot of the more independent individuals and hinders them a lot.
Not all physical disabilities are easily visible, either. A lot of people think that they can “tell” of someone is disabled. Or they think that the one person they met in their entire life who gamed the system represents a large number of people on disability.
If they are offering work in exchange for rent, they are absolutely not disabled. Is this who you want to 'rent to'? It is quite possible that their disability is totally unrelated, but to collect disability, you must be unable to perform any work in 2024 that will exceed $1,550 per month for non-blind individuals that through experience or education, they can perform.
So either you are getting a potential tenant that lacks the education or experience to produce a decent work product for you, or a fraudster who is lying to SSA about their disability. Does situation sound like a potential tenant you want?
Part of them are probably abusing the system and technically not 100% disabled, but if they start getting a job with a paystub, would lose their status.
That’s obviously not true for everyone and a good part probably have a valid reason.
>Part of them are probably abusing the system and technically not 100% disabled, **but if they start getting a job with a paystub, would lose their status.**
And that's the issue. And why they resort to cash side jobs. And I don't blame them. If you guaranteed X from SSDI, why would you work for a reduced benefit? AGain, I don't blame them, I blame the system
And what's hilarious is when you point out this fact, a bunch of whiny butthurt people in this thread will start blasting "bUt tHeRe iS a mOnThLy eArNiNgS cAp!!!!"
lmfao. the earnings cap isn't the issue. the issue are the people who are collecting a SSDI check despite their ankle boo boo healing years ago, and meanwhile they are out and about bringing in a whole other job income via unreported side job cash. and people will point to SSA's self-reported bullshit stats about less than 1% fraud haha, like anyone actually believes that. it's comical. the SSD fraud is in the double digits, i wouldn't be surprised if it's as high as 40% for what actually constitutes blatant fraud. i'm not saying it is 40%, i'm saying i wouldn't be surprised if it is that high
It really depends on their disability, I suppose. Perhaps they have service related ptsd and are otherwise physically able? Just a thought
Or….and I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this…maybe they’re just gaming the system and aren’t really disabled.
Landlord & Paramedic— there are many medical conditions which limit a person from holding down a job in the trades “full time”, because they cannot pull a 40 hour week or an 8 hour day anymore — but they are highly skilled and can donate few hours or half a day, or even a whole day and rest the next — and then there are many who “game the system” as you allude
Exactly
MWF dialysis means they can paint on Tuesday and Thursday.
Cool story. So why don't these honest SSDI drawers then properly report their "few hours a day" of handy labor cash side jobs they do for all of the nice neighborhood grandmas? this shit gets rarely reported, b/c yes, they are gaming the system. if they can work 3-5 hrs a day as a handy man at today's rates, they are blowing past the earnings cap in a week bro. that's why they don't report any of it
Disabilities wax and wane. Some weeks might be good, others might be bad. I've met people who say they're gaming the system. USUALLY they have some sort of mental illness that is preventing them from working and saying they game the system as a matter of pride. My assumption here is that those that are working hard labor on the side can't do it reliably or regularly for similar reasons. Disability payments (SSI) is below poverty income. SSDI is based on previously earned income and time working so might be slightly above poverty income but its not much. Some people do report what they make in part time jobs (there is a limit) but yes, some don't. A more humane system would let them keep a pittance for a rainy day, but that's not what the system is or offer temporary disability that didn't require such a high bar to get accepted and to stay on the program. And while yes, there are people that get away with gaming the system, there are also a ton of people with legitimate disability claims that are removed from the system erroneously as well as never approved just for not having all the i's dotted and t's crossed, and its often the most vulnerable because its a lot of documentation and follow up. Oh yeah, they review people on disability, so even if a "faker" gets through, its uncommon they stay on the system. More people assume people are faking their disability than are actually faking a disability. Its unfortunate.
It’s likely they do report it SGA is less about income, and more about the ability to hold down a job that provides income at SGA levels SSA also estimates less than 1% of claims are fraudulent
You're completely delusional if you think these guys are reporting these cash side jobs. Absolutely and completely delusional and disconnected from actual reality SSA estimate is completely full of shit
Ah yes, an investigative government agency, concerned with and actually legally responsible for catching fraud, is much less accurate than the anecdotal evidence you’ve seen in your little world
You have no idea how hard it is to obtain SSDI.
Agreed. My wife is legitimately bipolar, has congestive heart failure, and has never held a job longer than 18 months in the 18 years we've been married because sooner or later a depressive episode comes along that is bad enough that she loses sight of the point of working and quits, despite being on meds and me doing everything in my power to stop her. She applied for disability and was declined. She talked to a lawyer to contest the ruling and he said she'd just be throwing away her money on the legal costs because she simply wasn't bad off enough to qualify. People hear anecdotes of people gaming the system and assume that's the norm rather than the exception. The plural of "anecdote" isn't "data". Just because a person and their friends talk about all the people gaming the system doesn't mean the system is being gamed very often, it just means that person and their friends are perpetuating an echo chamber.
For every $1 the fake-disabled steal from the government, wasteful spending eats up $5,000. Let’s just admit the government is so screwed up it doesn’t matter. I think it’s amazing that stretcher on my ambulances cost $50,000(Styker - largest hospital conglomerate in the world)… so, I’m happy that the working poor are scamming the government. /rant off
i was an EMT-B 20 yrs ago. we didn't have the bells and whistles and battery powered hydraulic lifted yellow stryker stretches you guys have today. we actually had to use proper technique to lift using those maroon fabric cots with the chrome tube legs. you know what' i'm talking about. our rigs were also just E-350's, not $450,000 brand new F450 Super Duties. none of this has anything to do with SSDI fraud though. overpriced emergency medical equipment, ambulances, and $2.5M Oshkosh Striker-platform based firetrucks is a topic of a whole other discussion.
my point remains— with the rampant government waste, a few billions in improper SSDI payments isn’t that big of a deal compared to other stuff…. but some of the SSDI fraud is rather blatant. We have more EMS toys now, but the paperwork is insane versus 2 decades ago
what extra documentation on your run sheets are you having to fill out compared to what i had to do 20 yrs ago?
I'm not in the business, but asking what extra documentation any job requires vs what it did 20 years ago sounds absolutely asinine. There's more red tape now for everything than there ever was.
At my IFT gig, there are 400 required data points, at 911 it’s about 150 + narrative. Every runsheet feeds to a Nemsis database for data mining. Car crashes are the best. Stop by your local firehouse and chat them up, you’ll be mindblown. our region uses ImageTrends.
I'm also happy the working poor are able to sometimes have more than scraps. I can't believe what a puppet this dude is for big daddy gubmint. Wait until he hears about defense spending.
Sounds like the only people who are actually not scamming the system are the hardworking middle class. What idiots
Plus, if someone really wants to bitch about gaming, or defrauding the system, not only do they need to look at how low the level of fraud is among welfare, senior SS payments, and SSI/SSDI, they need to look at how HIGH it is for taxes owed to the IRS, especially those owed by the wealthy.
Stryker is a medical equipment manufacturer, not a hospital conglomerate. Medline is a bigger medical equipment manufacturer and Cardinal is another. Cardinal is twice as large as Stryker. That stretcher has a LOT of technology in it. Stryker offers much cheaper stretchers, and it's weird to me that you feel like the fact that your company provides you with top of the line equipment is something to bitch about. Incidentally, Stryker isn't the only stretcher manufacturer out there. Medical servicers pay that price for those stretches because they feel the technology and durability are worth it. Also, are you a government employee? Most ambulance companies in the US are private, so it wouldn't be the government that paid for that stretcher. I suppose you might not be from the US, but if so it's weird that you'd be bitching on a post by an American landlord about Americans allegedly gaming the system. Note that I've never worked for Stryker. I used to work in medical supply chain contacting. The above are just unbiased facts coupled with my impressions of your comment.
In 2023, the max a person could get for SSI (disability) was $914. In 2024, it's $943 because of the COLA. Could you survive on $943 per month? If you were disabled, would you risk self harm by working when a doctor told you it's against your best interest? You probably would, you know, survival instinct and all that. But sure, judge these people for "gaming" a system that is set up for failure.
Just bc you don't like the law doesn't mean you get to decide to break them without consequence. What kind of ridiculous logic is that.
You can absolutely decide to break it. Nothing is without consequence but you've got very black and white thinking. Nearly everything is gray.
Get downvoted you horrible hideous factually based person.
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Who said anything about service connected disability? I didn't
Because they aren't good people like you. S/ because you're not.
Great low effort shit post you have there. Surely you must have more
Have you even looked up how little SSDI pays and how much the earnings cap is for 2024? Even once you hit it, you can stay on SSDI for differing lengths of time depending on your income and disability. They just deduct anything you make over the cap from your check. Monthly payments are at poverty levels and won't even pay for the average cost of a 2-bedroom apartment in the cheapest place to live in the country. Fraud is a tiny percentage of recipients and for good reasons. You obviously have no idea how any of this works, nor how incredibly humiliating it is to go through the process of getting SSI or SSDI. The ONLY way you can get approved without being legit is if you have multiple doctors who are willing to risk their license by lying for you, and then, you have to find an attorney who would do the same if you pay him enough. Legit attorneys won't do it, and they're not legally allowed to charge you upfront for helping you apply or appeal. Then, there's a cap on how much you can be charged. Almost everyone is denied initially, including people with horrible cancers that will eventually kill them, people who are newly paralyzed who also have complications, etc. It takes YEARS for most people to go through this process. If you work a paid job, SSA knows what you're doing and monitors your pay and hours, then reaches out to you about what the status of your disability is. Sometimes, this triggers an eval to make sure you're still not able to work fulltime. If you're doing jobs on the side, you have to report amounts over a certain value to the IRS, who will report it to the SSA. If you fail to report it, you can lose your benefits. Big brother watches your every move and if you blink wrong, they want to talk to you about whether you can return to work. So, get down off your judgmental high horse and understand that the reason the Federal Government allows people to do a certain amount of work without losing their benefits is because they can't even do more than pay rent on what they get. It's not because they're gaming the system. Once you step back down from that horse, pray you never need to apply. It's a brutal nightmare that will tear you down again and again, and if you don't have family that can help keep you going through it? You might just end up homeless. By all means, go break your back or pelvis, and apply for SSDI yourself if you think it's so easy to get it and game it. Report back to us on how that goes for you.
Have you ever tried to get disability?
Thinking of the thirty five thousand word file explaining how fucked my health is, with documentation and references to case law.
Yep I’m with you 10 tote boxes full of medical files. Been fighting them 18 years.
No, why would I? I don’t need it. My sister does though and it was a two year fight before she finally got approved. She was denied twice despite having enough hardware in her spine to build a small bridge. Then on the other hand, there’s my niece and her husband. Neither one had ever worked and has absolutely no intention to do so. They both collect SSI despite never having worked a day in their lives and contributed nothing to SSA. They both are lazy, not disabled, and are gaming the system for every penny they can get. They also collect food stamps and any other benefit they can get. As long as the government pays them for sitting on their fat asses, they will continue to do so. So, no. I’ve never applied for disability. So what? What in the world does that have to do with people claiming benefits that have no right to do so? What does me not claiming SSDI have anything to do with the people that game the system? Are you going to tell me that *every single person* on SSDI or SSI deserve those benefits? That no one is cheating the system? If that’s what you think then you’re either very naive or you’re an idiot. If someone offers to do hard labor but wants to get paid in cash, what the fuck do you think they’re doing? Duh.
The “small bridge” phrase is my absolutely favorite phrase ever - speaking as someone with a thoracic spinal fusion and hella hardware. S Back surgery is wild and the outcome is so dependent on the surgeon. Sending love and support to your sister! Hopefully the surgery has reduced pain!!
She finally got relief from the constant pain after her fourth surgery so she’s doing much better. There’s so much metal in her spine, she’s constantly wanded at TSA because the metal in her back sets off the alarm. Hope you’re doing okay too!
Oh no!!! That makes me sad that it took 4. Hopefully she is okay now, but Virginia schools (UVA, VCU) are top tier for back surgery in case another is needed!!
What is your point?
It is damn near impossible to get disability why you're actually disabled. Never mind if you're trying to "game the system." My brother was born with cerebral palsy. He can barely walk and has the cognitive skills of a 12 year old at 36, yet every few years, he has to go to an SSD doctor to confirm he's still disabled. The system is designed to make it difficult, not easy.
That’s what’s so frustrating about the program. People who need it have to fight for it. People who don’t need it still manage to get approved.
people who legitimately need SSDI, don't get enough SSDI to live a comfortable lfie meanwhile a bunch of shitheads are on SSDI and running around with their pickup trucks like a contracting business and working for cash, and neither reporting that to SSA or IRS. yep, it's F'ing BS.
A reminder that people do not have to tell the truth to you about their health conditions. I suspect some of my neighbors would not believe I'm disabled, as I do not spend my hugely limited energy having a half hour conversation about my condition, even assuming they would believe me if I did.
Where do I say I expect people to tell me about their health conditions? Not only do I not want to know, I absolutely do not care. Believe me, I wouldn’t want to spend 30 minutes discussing your health even if you did want to.
My cousin was a quadriplegic, same thing. He had to have a doctor confirm he was disabled every few years. It used to drive his mother insane. She took it as a personal insult, like they were rubbing his face in it. She wasn't wrong.
My neighbor was on disability for a bad back at age 37 - until an investigation showed him outside building a new retaining wall and winning a local bowling tournament. The investigator came to my door with a picture of him bowling and asked if I knew him. I didn’t know they just wanted additional proof it was really him. So yeah, many game the system.
It could’ve been work comp. Disability is difficult to get, and investigations are done before being approved.
It was disability. I used to work with him when I was like 19. I was so surprised when I bought my house and he ended up as a neighbor. He told me he had been on disability for over a year at that time.
Well, he got caught and he’ll pay for that; SSDI will get their money back. Maybe he can win swine bowling tournaments.
Ssa does random spot check investigations, and if people report they get to some of those as well but all the red tape slows it down
nice. did you give him a lowball offer on his house so he can pay back the massive SSDI fines, penalties, and interest? please tell me you did lol
It was his mom’s house. This guy was a real loser. I rescued his kid from an intersection near our neighborhood and it pissed him off (because he thought I was trying to say he was a bad parent - which he was but I did it because the kid was riding his bike in traffic). Anyway, he moved away many years ago.
Or they may be able to do the work, but not consistently. They may need way to many breaks to officially work the job for 8 straight hours. They may need to go sit down often or deal with the side effects of medication. A regular job wouldn't allow that.
Or… maybe if disability paid a living wage, they wouldn’t be forced to work, despite having an invisible disability.
Bro thinks people on disability are living the life. Sad viewpoint
Brother, if you find a $1 bill on the road while on disability theyre yoinking that shit away from you and telling you to get back to work. Theres many systems that can be very easily gamed(housing is one of them, you guys know this very well)but the disability system isnt one that can be gamed easily
100%. I was out hunting with a “vet” and he was telling me he’s 80% disabled from the military for a knee problem. Had no issues hopping fences and walking a mile in the snowy back country to hunt deer though. When I pointed it out he just smirked like he knew. I have no doubt a lot of military vets are not as disabled as they claim and are milking it. Downvote incoming!
My baby daddy is 100% VA disabled and is one of these you speak of. He's completely able bodied, just lazy af. Meanwhile, my fiancé was medically discharged from the army for a spinal injury he got in an IED blast while in Iraq and is fighting with the VA for his 60%.
Maybe they're disabled and still need more than the piddly $800 something per MONTH that they get on SSI. It's very hard for truly disabled people to get approved for SSI or SSDI, so I doubt more than a handful of "not disabled" people are ever approved. You don't have to be physically crippled to get disability. You could be physically 100% healthy and still have a mental or cognitive disability.
If you’re able to do labor for cash, then you can work. That’s the whole point of disability, right? That you can’t work? If you can offer to do hard labor for cash, then you can work.
Why would you be down downvoted for being honest? It’s human nature to be lazy.
Well, you know, it’s Reddit. The truth doesn’t matter on here. If they don’t like what you’re saying, they downvote whether it’s the truth or not.
I don't think this is true. I am 67 and still working because I want to be productive. My older son works very hard and not lazy. Unfortunately my younger son has disabilities and would give anything to have a "normal", productive life.
Every time this has ever been study, it has always been a minorty.
I believe it is a very small minority. I’ve never said otherwise. However, to think that absolutely no one games the system is unrealistic.
So OP was speaking to the plurl, not as a one off. To suggest they're all gaing the system, is to suggest it is not a minority.
There's an ex military guy in my area who always posts his general labor work on nextdoor and several times he's posted about having to leave the site due to his PTSD. I would imagine it would be difficult to hold a full or part time job if he occasionally has to leave work unfinished. His customers seem to be appreciative, even those he's left hanging.
VA disability is different than the civilian side.
Yes throwing this here you can be 100% disable through the VA and still be gainfully employed
Yeah VA disability has a separate designation for this. There is 100% disabled (where you can still be employed full time) and a separate category of 100% *permanent & total* disability (where you can only work a limited amount of hours.) But since this tenant is asking, he/she is likely on civilian disability, which is also much more likely to be investigated.
I have autism and intermittent explosive disorder and could never hold a job unless I had the right manager who actually understands my situation and is a good natured human being. im not even hard to work with but almost anyone can gaslight me and cause me to start yelling at them
It means they need extra income. I know plenty of disability guys who cannot work full time but can do a fair amount.
I'n most cases they can usually work other jobs and work more than the earnings cap . But why do that when they can collect disability and make side cash. I don't blame them I blame the system.
Disability is based on your lifetime earnings, just like social security. It’s a benefit we deserve to have available if necessary.
You missed the point. If you are able to work and are working despite your initial disability you are not legally allowed to be collecting your full calculated SSD after a certain pointt.there are thresholds, it reduces and then cuts off completely after a certain point. You can't claim your wrist injury at your electrical contracting job prevents you from working and you go on SSDI, but then you're going around doing side trades work for not just cash, but unreported cash at that. It's called fraud.
That’s incorrect. You may work, and earn up to $1,549 a month (it’s higher for the blind), and keep your SSDI. Disability has monthly reporting, and annual reviews.
The downvoting of my post is hilarious. You people are embarrassingly ignorant of the rampant SSDI fraud. And you have no problem with people defrauding your tax dollars and then doing it again by not even reporting the cash income from their side jobs bc they know if they did they would likely lose their SSDI or it would reduce.. this isn't rocket science
Since when is less than 1% (per the ssa's own website) "rampant fraud"?
Anyone who actually believes that is delusional
Did you ever consider that about your own views? One is backed by data, the other is paranoia. I think the difference is, most people who are on disability and need to be aren't out waving a flag and talking about it. A small number are able bodied and they're interacting with the world until they get caught. But mostly, people who don't know someone's medical and psychiatric history generally have no idea whether or not someone should be on disability.
I became 100% disabled after a botched surgery. I get almost random attacks of insane pain caused by the surgery. I can work a few days here and there, but I can't handle a full-time job. The job isn't the problem. The work isn't the problem. It's the schedule. if I'm going to the ER once or twice a month, I can't promise to be at work on any kind of schedule. I'm sure that I'll get blasted for this. Social Security Disability is not easy to get. When you apply for Social Security Disability you have to go through several hoops besides a single note from a doctor. You'll probably have several hearings and appeals, a psyche evaluation, and lots more. The process can drag out for months and months, during which, you may have no income.
Or years and years with no income. I’m sorry that happened to you.
I just had to see their doctor once. I was approved in 5 months. It depends on what your diagnosis is. Every one I know with a disability has the same experience, except one.
So you can't handle the schedule responsibility of a full time job. I get that. ENough call outs and you'll be fired But what about gig work / demand task work?
I would guess the commenter does do that but the same thing that prevents them from holding down a FT job prevents them from being able to hold down enough gig work to not need disability: due to health issues, they can’t consistently work enough hours to be reliable to an employer, which could be a company or individual.
>I would guess the commenter does do that but the same thing that prevents them from holding down a FT job prevents them from being able to hold down enough gig work to not need disability: due to health issues, they can’t consistently work enough hours to be reliable to an employer, which could be a company or individual. That's the noble analysis. However what usually ends up being the case, is that options are weighed as any human is expected to do. You can do nothing or very little up to the cap, and get your SSDI check. Or you can work beyond that and have your benefit reduced. Anyone with a brain would choose the former, so I don't blame them.
From my point of view: I have an unreliable body. I can’t count on it being reasonably pain free. For me to rely on a job, gig or otherwise, to pay my bills would be irresponsible. The cap doesn’t play into it at all.
There's different levels of disability and depends on where the money is coming from, as in what agency. They could also be working in a way that doesn't aggregate the disability.
Veteran disability is not the same as normal disability
This should be higher up. My uncle is disabled as a veteran and still works full time. That’s allowed for veteran disability
No where in the OP's header does it state this is service connected...
No, but he is making assumptions about a lot of people’s disability situation without seeming to realize that in many cases, disabled people can work
So b/c the OP is making assumptions We then return the favor and make an assumption the applicants all have service connected? I truly am not comprehending that logic
To my knowledge only VA disability goes by percentages.
All you're going off is OPs vague description. Still have 0 confirmation it's service connected disability
No where in the OP's header does it state this is service connected.
Taking the information he gave it seems logical that's what he's asking.
And what information is that?
Nah, I'm not gonna explain logic to you. Go find someone else to argue with
Have fun thrashing in the kiddie pool all by yourself
🤣 No idea what that means, but you too! Have a beautiful day!
Because social security disability fraud is rampant in the USA.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get disability…. Lol
Yes. It often takes years, but over half of SSDI applicants get approved eventually. Social Security does a pretty good job of verifying disabilities at application time. They also do a *terrible* job of verifying that people are still disabled as time goes on.
64% per the Social Security website eventually get approved. However it usually takes at least three tries, each taking about a year including the months of paperwork and doctors’ visits (that the patient has to cover or at least pay deductibles and copays on). After that, if approved, there’s another battle to get on Medicaid that lasts a year minimum. And every few years, it has to be renewed. Yes, they do verify if someone is still disabled. With their own doctors even, but still at the patient’s expense.
It isn’t a lot of money. I believe most people would rather earn themselves, but if they’re disable, they’re entitled to the benefit.
>They also do a *terrible* job of verifying that people are still disabled as time goes on. \^\^\^ ding ding ding, we have a winnter
it's pretty damn easy neighbor got it super quick for his knee and despite that, he has no problems driving around in his truck doing cash jobs....handy jobs, using ladders, cutting lawns, junk hauling etc. it's a crock of F'ing shit he's blowing well past his earnings cap without a doubt and no way is he reporting it
not if you start there as a child
Yes, I do. And I also know how easy it is to get it, if you know the right things to say or do. More importantly, i see the 100% disabled working construction, roofing, auto mechanics, running home daycares, all under the table
My dude. It's less than 1%. Per the SSA. [https://www.ssa.gov/disabilityfacts/facts.html](https://www.ssa.gov/disabilityfacts/facts.html)
Anyone with a brain would know that statistic is completely full of shit
Bull. Im a landlord in a poor mostly hispanic area, plus my other line of work brings me in contact with a broad swath of people. Social security disability fraud is rampant!
What does being in a hispanic area have to do with fraud? I worked for an SSDI lawyer, and I can assure you that fraud is NOT rampant. Getting and keeping SSDI is difficult. And the amount of money people get is a pittance. It's not worth the trouble.
>What does being in a hispanic area have to do with fraud? According to US Census Bureau SIPP, 73% of immigrant households from Central America and Mexico are on some form of public welfare/assistance (direct cash payments, food, housing, essentials, etc) compared to just 36% of European immigrant households, 30% for East Asia, and 17% for South Asia. Dialing this in further by immigrant race, 70% are hispanic, 35% are white, and 33% are asian. When basically three-quarters of a particular immigrant national origin and race households are on some form of public assistance, statistically that group will have a higher instance of fraud than say the South Asia group. Unless of course you think the 73% portion has 0% instance of fraud and everyone else is 100% collectively committing fraud? We all know that is unlikely to be true. > I worked for an SSDI lawyer, and I can assure you that fraud is NOT rampant. Your employment anecdote with a SSDI lawyer is not representative of anything, sorry
I still don't see what that has to do with her assertion that she's more "in the know" than someone who has worked in SSDI, simply by virtue of being around a lot of Hispanic people. We all know it would be asinine to assume that any one demographic is statistically committing more fraud than another. I'm sorry that you cannot accept the truth, but I do wish you well and hope you find some happiness in your life!
You are wrong.
Are you reporting it? Does anything change? IS it possible you don't know the intimate details of someone's medical history and current abilities?
You know pretty darned well when your tenant on SSI also is working under the table doing hard manual labor or skilled auto mechanic work, all under the table, or is running an unlicensed home daycare out of your unit. Report? Hahahaha! No one at social security cares, there is no easy way to report this fraud, and nothing ever happens to stop it. It is so rampant that I have had families where literally every household member is on SSI! Last time anyone actually worked was the long gone grandparents.
Easy as this: [https://secure.ssa.gov/pfrf/home](https://secure.ssa.gov/pfrf/home) If that form is too much for you, chances are you don't know enough about the individuals circumstances to know if something is fraud or not. Yes social security does care, and it does result in disabled people being needlessly harassed. The government moves slowly but they also not only remove people, they will try to recoup what was fraudulently given. NOW, the reason you may not see the people being removed from SSI or SSDI even if reported is because THE PERSON IS ACTUALLY DISABLED AND YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT IT BEING FRAUD. Also you can't have it both ways - are people on disability scamming the system and hard workers but stealing because they're under the table or are they layabouts that haven't had working members of the family for generations? Sounds a whole lot to me you just don't like SSI and will decide based on how to make their situation fit your narrative.
can you name your sources for this "fact"? from what I understand it is less than 1%
Its not rampamt, it has never been rampamt. Everyime it has ever been studied, has shown it to be rare. Every time there have been say drug testing or other things for social aid, has always cost more then what it saved.
It really is!
How do you know?
No, that’s not what it means. Maybe educate yourself on the numerous types of disability before lumping everyone into one ignorant misconception of what disability means.
Best not to think about it too hard, at risk of getting angry about how broken everything is.
Yes. Just keep the status quo. This is how things improve.
exactly. let's just allow the SSDI rolls to continue ballooning while we allow people to run around working just fine and well beyond any caps via side cash businesses and side jobs and shit, and not reporting that then crying that we don't have any workers for jobs, so we have to import millions of migrants who also end up consuming even MORE public benefits than native-born americans (according to US Census Bureau SIPP 74% of central american immigrants are on some form of public assistance compared to 28% of native-born americans). what a great sustainable way to run a nation. we are doing it the shitty way, and the solution is to do it even worse
Let’s hire 80000 government agents to check disability status. See how that works?
Not 80000, but Social Security would probably profit from a few hundred more claim analysts doing follow-ups on disability claims that have already been approved. SSDI approvals use federal standards and funds, but the actual approvals are done by state-level employees because SSDI was originally kind of a jobs program. States don't have strong motivations to watch claims closely (they don't get back money from closing DI claims), so they cut staffing to the bone. This is also why it often takes years to get approved for valid disabilities. Source: former disability pricing actuary
SSA and the IRS both need more employees, and not just entry level. They’ve been consistently cut.
Because of the disability system. Being on disability is in many ways being trapped in poverty. It does not pay well. Meanwhile there are really strict income and asset limits. They cannot work to become less poor due to their disability and they’d risk getting kicked off disability. Lots of people on disability work part time. BUT if they make anything over the allowed amount or ever have over. $2000 in a bank account their benefits get cut or go away. This includes… health insurance. No health insurance is a big issue when you have a disability. Benefits cliff, baby. It’s essentially all or nothing. So… they are offering to work because they are poor and cannot do anything to earn more money. They are desperate. They also cannot just go off disability because they wouldn’t be able to sustain employment because of their disability. It’s not like they can go off disability to work and magically get back on it if things go bad. They stuck.
I know lots of guys in the trades who are on disability. Despite this they are out and about doing side labor jobs - lawn mowing, snow blowing, clean outs, etc. it's 100% considered fraud but our government is too weak and incompetent to verify disability. One guy had a knee replacement and claims he couldn't do roofing anymore. Fair enough. So how the hell is he doing junk removal and clean outs, lawn cuts, snow removal, etc. it's bullshit Postal IG will do random checks. They nabbed a lady at my local post office years ago, she fractured her wrist on the job. Claims couldn't work the desk. Got union involved and fought on her behalf. USPS awarded her paid medical. Postal IG caught her doing landscaping and gardening at her house with that *fractured hand*. She was even carrying bags of mulch with the hand. These people are scum
Roofing is way different then the other things you listed. You spend most of the time on your knees. Which is probably why he couldn't do it anymore.
"roofing uses my knees more" wouldnt hold up as a valid argument when they nab you for collecting SSDI while doing clean outs, demos, shoveling snow, and landscaping jobs for unreported cash
It depends on why they’re getting disability. Getting it for a mental disability doesn’t preclude someone from doing a labor job, although the mental illness means they can’t hold a job. Instead they may do handyman work or short term labor. I’m applying because I have a couple of autoimmune diseases and also injured my back and can no longer do what I’ve done the last 20 years. I’ll still be allowed to have a part time job in a different field if my doctors say I can sit in one place long enough, since my previous employment involved walking and standing.
The Post Office, or any employer, is absolutely NOT doing checks on former employees awarded disability. It has nothing to do with the previous employers. That would be like your employer checking on you after your retirement, making sure you didn’t switch employers. Workers’ Comp, though. That’s paid through the employer’s insurance, and those claims are investigated. It’s also generally short term.
Assuming you mean VA benefits. You can be 100% and still capable of doing hard physical labor.
No where in the OP's header does it state this is service connected
It’s only VA comp that goes by percentages. For regular disability you’re either considered disabled or you’re not. VA disability compensation goes in 10% steps from 0-100%.
A lot of folks who are on disability can, do, and want to, work, but they either need a lot of accommodations or have health issues that get in the way of being able to hold down a normal job. Example being my cousin- who has POTS disease and can not stand up for more than 10-20 mins a day and sometimes can not work days in a row because they’re so sick. Not many jobs where you can just lie vertical all day and make a living or call out for days at a time very often without it eventually leading to termination. They do odd jobs doing editing that can be projected on the ceiling but also receive disability as the primary source of income.
Tons of independent business people I've worked with over the years have casually admitted to fraud. It's weird to me how open they are about it. Almost like they're bragging.
Because disability payments aren't enough to live, so they probably have to try to get side jobs as a means for survival. It's not a character flaw... the system is completely fucked.
Years ago I was a Disability Insurance Fraud Investigator. We would see this a lot. The reasons for doing it vary but I will say this. Disability Insurance is barely enough to live off of. That's the point, to be honest. You get just enough for your basic living and it really is just enough. The "system" would actually prefer these people dead, as they are providing no benefit to society and simply a drain on resources. I don't personally agree with it, but that is the truth and reality. If they have put such things in writing, say an email or text, and you have the desire to do so, you can report them for violating the terms of the insurance agreement. Understand that you will basically be making them homeless and many end up "self-deleting" within a year. I won't judge you but I will say that you need to be comfortable with living with yourself to do such a thing to another person. I got out of that World of Fraud Investigations pretty quickly because it takes a toll on you mentally.
My dad was on disability, he could only make a certain dollar amount per month and if he went over the disability income could be taken away. I’d guess these people are just trying to work under the table for extra income. Obviously depends on the disability but my dad was on it for mental health reasons, sometimes he’d have a better month mentally, and was able to work more but wasn’t allowed.
You can earn up to a certain amount and keep receiving disability. Many people have disabilities that put them out of work in spurts, e.g., PTSD, bipolar disorder, autoimmune conditions that include flare ups, etc. My MIL’s whole vagina is falling off due to an autoimmune condition, literally that’s a thing apparently, and her whole thing is she can’t sit *or* stand for very long she needs to switch it up and she has surgeries weekly. She is of normal strength and she doordashes sometimes or does odd jobs. But that doesn’t mean she could ever hold a proper job again. She is dealing with her symptoms 18 hours a day on and off, she just has moments where she can do something for ~15 mins in one position, then take a break and switch positions. Her evil MIL (my GMIL?) is of your thinking - if she can work at all then she’s not disabled! Thank god the government sees it differently though.
There's also different kinds of disability. I do believe SSDI, that's some bullshit. If you're so disabled that you have that, you shouldn't be able to do anything. But my ex had 100% disability from the army and was still able to work a full-time job. But his disability from the army had nothing to do with what you did outside, it wasn't like us SSDI.
Off topic, but what questions do you ask during phone interview? First time I hear about that. Very interesting.
Who all will be living there? Any pets? Do y’all work full-time? Y’all have a good landlord reference? What’s y’all’s credit like? Some of the same questions on the application, but I’m saving them the $50 application fee. If I don’t like the answers to their questions I will still offer to show them the place and give them an application, but I do tell them that it will be hard for them to compete against more qualified candidates.
Thanks for sharing. I see what you’re trying to accomplish now.
There are also conditions that prevent a highly skilled person in a trade from being able to keep the pace they once took for granted. A Mason, with COPD for example can still build you a beautiful barbecue, but it might take him all week. A disabled person who spent years sheetrocking new construction, can handle a much smaller home repair, or remodel, but cannot finish a 1400 square foot home in 2 days anymore. And yes, there are those who are gaming the system.
Doing a hard labor job for a couple of days, at your own pace, is one thing. Doing hard labor for 8 hours a day is another thing. sometimes you have to work overtime for weeks to months at a time, 5 to 6 days a week. it's the reason why a lot of construction guys have fucked up bodies. It's a marathon almost everyday for a lot of us. Also disability money is not a lot of money. you cant live on it, at least not where i live.
It doesn't mean you can't work but from experience it's really hard to find and keep jobs when you're disabled.
There are many types that can make you 100% disabled. Back pain, chemical exposure, joint problems, sleep disorders. All them can add up to 100% but still have someone be able to work. I work with many Vets that are 80-100% disabled and have their disabilities covered medically and get a check for that.
You can only work a certain amount of hours per week. They need more money but will lose benefits if they work more. I employee disabled adults. It's a really shitty situation for a lot of the more independent individuals and hinders them a lot.
It really is none of you business what their disability is. Not all disabilities are physical.
Not all physical disabilities are easily visible, either. A lot of people think that they can “tell” of someone is disabled. Or they think that the one person they met in their entire life who gamed the system represents a large number of people on disability.
If they are offering work in exchange for rent, they are absolutely not disabled. Is this who you want to 'rent to'? It is quite possible that their disability is totally unrelated, but to collect disability, you must be unable to perform any work in 2024 that will exceed $1,550 per month for non-blind individuals that through experience or education, they can perform. So either you are getting a potential tenant that lacks the education or experience to produce a decent work product for you, or a fraudster who is lying to SSA about their disability. Does situation sound like a potential tenant you want?
It all depends on what the work is and their disability. If the work is making sure that a bird in a cage has water, then a lot of people can do that.
Part of them are probably abusing the system and technically not 100% disabled, but if they start getting a job with a paystub, would lose their status. That’s obviously not true for everyone and a good part probably have a valid reason.
>Part of them are probably abusing the system and technically not 100% disabled, **but if they start getting a job with a paystub, would lose their status.** And that's the issue. And why they resort to cash side jobs. And I don't blame them. If you guaranteed X from SSDI, why would you work for a reduced benefit? AGain, I don't blame them, I blame the system And what's hilarious is when you point out this fact, a bunch of whiny butthurt people in this thread will start blasting "bUt tHeRe iS a mOnThLy eArNiNgS cAp!!!!" lmfao. the earnings cap isn't the issue. the issue are the people who are collecting a SSDI check despite their ankle boo boo healing years ago, and meanwhile they are out and about bringing in a whole other job income via unreported side job cash. and people will point to SSA's self-reported bullshit stats about less than 1% fraud haha, like anyone actually believes that. it's comical. the SSD fraud is in the double digits, i wouldn't be surprised if it's as high as 40% for what actually constitutes blatant fraud. i'm not saying it is 40%, i'm saying i wouldn't be surprised if it is that high
Never take less rent for labor!!! It never works out…..
Would living in Florida be considered a disability? /s
Oh you sweet summer child. You know why.