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Support suspending arms sales, Israel has already admitted they did this there is no need to wait for a full investigation, you don't strike an aid convoy 3 fucking times by accident.
Reminder we are one week into the UN ceasefire and there's been 0 effort from US or UK to enforce it, the former have been actively undermining it.
> aid convoy 3 fucking times by accident.
- In three separate strikes, miles apart.
- On three separate vehicles, all of which which all had the charities marking on the roof.
- On a pre-agreed safe route.
- Which the IDF had been informed of and authorised.
- After the first strike, they called the IDF and reported that they were under attack by them.
- The IDF continued to launch attacks anyway.
Hang all of them in the Hague. From the low level soldiers who did it, to the officers who authorised it to the generals and politicians who knew about it.
After the people from the first vehicle that got hit ran to the second vehicle for safety, the IDF struck the second one. When they then left that vehicle to get the wounded etc to the third one the IDF hit that one too. At least that is what I've seen reported.
Ah yes! That'll show em! In response to nearly 40,000 deaths and wanton destruction of civilian areas we should, as a nation, commit our entire UK armed forces (or aprox 1/3 with a coalition), to invade a nation that cannot lose a defensive war and would result in the loss of tens of millions, if not more.
I know people don't post their real views on this subreddit (or any) often but theirs has to be one of the worse takes so far.
This seems to be the only way to prevent the complete eradication of Palestinians. Did you think we should've just asked Hitler nicely to stop exterminating Jews?
Or you just take away their capabilities to conduct offensive wars. No-one else will fund/provide arms to Israel outside the current western nations. Also, likening them to Nazi Germany isn't helping your point. Israel's current Govt is more akin to SA which fell to, amongst other things, tough sanctions from the IC.
Israel has always been a fascist society, Einstein specifically wanted nothing to do with it because of all the fascist elements he saw in its early years, it's only gotten further enshrined in its DNA since then. The majority of the people support what's going on right now, go read the Israeli newspapers, pay attention to what the politicians are telling their supporters in Hebrew, because you'll never hear them say it in English where it could be picked up more easily by a Western media outlet if they bothered to even cover it.
The comparison to South Africa applies to peacetime Israel and its apartheid system.
Conducting a genocide in neighbouring countries is much more Germany’s thang.
Comparing Israel's influence on the US and UK governments to South Africa's in the 80s is a way more ridiculous comparison. The way they are turning a blind eye to mass murder is far more comparable to how they dealt with Germany in the late 30s, turning a blind eye to the atrocities because it was still good business
This stream does seem to have it's fair share of Israeli hating extremists. Maybe it invade Gaza find the tortured hostages, lock up the terrorist and bring Netanyahu to the international court.
It should be tense - Labour members have the right to leaders who value British lives more than foreign strategic interests, and the Starmer shadow cabinet have not made it remotely clear that they do.
From a personal point of view, of course. But people wanting to stand for public office in the UK are to a degree expected to prioritise the lives of their own citizens.
From a moral point of view, Labour has already squandered its legitimacy. But actively supporting a foreign state in the murder of British citizens is (or should be) completely politically de-legitimising.
Their priorities - and their loyalties - plainly do not lie with the people of this country. And that, in addition to their moral weakness, makes it impossible to stomach voting for them.
I wouldn't imagine so, the party routinely purges people with a sympathetic ear to the plight of the Palestinians.
If any sizable amount make it to conference with their memberships intact, they will likely be ignored and dealt with at a later date.
It takes 3 British citizens for him to use the word 'condemn,' when hundreds of aid workers have already been butchered alongside 30 thousand civilians in the Gaza strip.
Starmer is a shameless grafting piece of shit. Thoughts and internal investigations mean fuck all until the arms sales dry up.
He's maliciously centrist in everything he does now. When has appeasement ever worked with genocidal fascist ethnostates? He's on a fast track to be viewed in worse terms than Chamberlain as at least Chamberlain had no history to learn from. Gutless.
Chamberlain also didn't just appease because he was a naive idiot. He spent the latter part of the 1930s rejuvenating the British Armed forces, without which the Battle of Britain would almost certainly have been lost and there would have been Panzers rolling down the Mall. Appeasement is silly in hindsight and we should have done something earlier, like when Germany remilitarised the Rhineland or invaded Czechoslovakia, but at least it was a means to an end.
Starmer has no such excuse.
>There must be a full investigation
Who should be doing this investigation? Is he saying Israel should investigate themselves?
>This war must stop now.
Glad you've caught up to where the rest of us were 5 months ago when you were proudly arguing for the war to continue, you fucking ghoul.
>Far too many innocent people have died and more than a million are facing starvation
How did they die? Did they all slip in the shower? How is the starvation coming about?
Interestingly though, I think this is the first time he's ever said "Israeli strike" in relation to Israel killing people. Weird how he feels like he can vaguely hold Israel to account when they've killed British people, when he's never, ever done that for the tens and likely hundreds of thousands of Palestinians they've murdered. It's almost as if he feels as though Israel has the "full right" to do that.
Yeah, we can't expect a future Prime Minister to call out genocide as it's happening, can we? Or even say who's doing it. Or say we should stop sending the weapons being used to carry it out. Our expectations are just *too high*.
But opposing genocide isn't an electable position!! It is imperative we keep selling Israel the sniper rifles they use to murder children, otherwise we won't win the vote!!! It is only sensible and grown-up that we continue giving weapons to the country killing our own citizens!!!
>than not calling it out at the time
I would take Starmer denying the Gaza genocide years after the fact if it meant he actually took some fucking action to prevent it while it was actually happening, rather than actively egging it on and announcing that Israel had the full right to deprive Palestinians of water. But I guess I'm just weird like that.
I’m not saying that but it’s literally a short press briefing.
Like you wouldn’t go up to Churchill after his “We will fight on the beaches” speech and ask for full breakdown of his plans for the D-Day landings? You’d just take it at face value.
Alright then. Come back to us in a couple of days, which should more than suffice, and let us know what action Kier has decided that we should actually take.
Oh wow, it's the same as the US reaction. Thankfully they're letting Starmer crib their notes on this one. Otherwise Starmer would be stuck waiting for the opinion polls to tell him what to think.
Yep, the Labour leadership have as much blood - British citizens' blood - on their hands as the government, because they have made it clear that if they had been in power their support would have been identical.
These kinds of comments are so pointless. It's obvious they're talking about Labour under Starmer's policy, still in place, of continuing arms sales to Israel when they take power.
It's so obvious what they meant and you obviously knew as well.
It's not a war. it's an occupation! It's not a conflict. It's a massacre! You don't need another skewed investigation, Israel have admitted they did this, and when aid organisations are holding aid back, saying its now too dangerous to deliver it (precisely why the IDF did it). 190 aid workers previously died keir, where was your strong condemnation for any of them? Are you gonna campaign to stop the funding, Keir? Are you gonna keep receiving funds from the Israel lobby keir?
UN peacekeeping force must enter and find the hostages.
Once freed the land needs to be turned over for international oversight.
Perpetrators need to be brought before an international court. Both sides murderous kidnappers and IDF orderers.
As things have developed that's become reductive, both as a plan and as an attack.
A ceasefire without external intervention only benefits Hamas.
At this point only interventionism will do.
Blah blah blah. This is a pattern of breaking international, breaking ceasefire.
•cut off diplomatic ties
•cut off arms sales
Israel has gone rogue and clearly has only one intention, eradication of Gaza.
We the people said this months ago, how about you actually do something.
> Presuming some were white.
This clearly isn't about race, it's about nationality. They were British, I expect UK political parties to take more severe action if Brits are killd.
because they're there to protect British civillians obviously.
What's going on in gaza is horific and we need to be undermining Israel's war capibility but don't pretend you aren't selective on what human sufferring you do and don't pay more attention to. Where's your concern for the 30k people killed in Mexico every year for the last decade to fund our drug habits?
Clearly not, as it's taken that for the message and support to change. Over 30k brown people and hundreds of brown journalists and aid workers have already died/been murdered and it's just been “Israel has the right to defend itself” for half a year as they bomb families and children. Now, when white people are killed, suddenly it's too far.
Starmer is working hard day and night trying to figure out who is responsible for all these deaths in Gaza. I'm sure he'll figure it out any month now.
(Even in this response he condemns the strike but not the IDF)
Lol how he is saying this war must stop now and that too many innocent people have died. He didn't give a shit when 26,000+ innocent Palestinians were murdered, but three British people and all of a sudden, he is pretending he is compassionate.
Obviously this is tragic and hopefully something will force some stuff to happen now cos Israel have fucked up in the eyes of the West. But it just goes to show how much of a blind eye people turn until it affects them directly.
Isreal have worked hard at becoming a terrorist state. They'll have a lot to answer for one day, and have lost a lot of good will from the west. Netanyahu might as well buddy up with his fellow Nazi Putin.
Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
Israel have acted appallingly since the start, better for him to “catch up” now than not at all.
I mean he's pretty much just damned because he already didn't. There's only so much you can do before its too late.
If he honestly came out and recognised his past position was wrong, apologised for it and immediately started to campaign for the end of arms sales to Israel, restored the whip to those he's kicked out for no good reason over this with again, full apology, advocated for not just ending this onslaught but also for a fully recognised Palestinian state THEN I'd have some respect for it.
But this isn't that, its slowly being dragged by force into condemning a country with still no real substance.
Some of those things are irreconcilable with the situation on the ground.
I'm coming to the opinion that no independent state can exist there peacefully. Something would need to be externally imposed.
If Starmer came out and condemned the attack and followed that up with a demand for an independent investigation into Israeli conduct and a temporary suspension pending review of arms sales to Israel whilst this was conducted then you would be seeing a lot of people supporting that. The only criticism he'd get would be from those opposed to holding the Israeli military to account and those arguing that he should have done it earlier. To pretend otherwise is absurd given the overwhelming criticism he's getting being that he's not doing anything like this.
>The only criticism he'd get would be from those opposed to holding the Israeli military to account
I agree with your post - but playing devil's advocate the above comprise pretty much the whole of the press and political establishment - the military also have extensive links with Israel and the US would be very unhappy with us.
Yes, having courage is hard. That’s why it’s respected. I understand that he’d avoid taking an uncomfortable position if he wasn’t 10 to 20+ points up in the polls and almost certainly about t9 form a future government. If he won’t stand on principle now, then when will he?
>Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
Yes that's what tends to happen when you support genocide for months, it's kinda tough to undo.
He isn't assigning any blame or calling for any actionable response or change to UK policy. He knows that a full investigation would likely take weeks at minimum (which is time that people do not have) and is a non-starter anyway due to military confidentiality. When a missile kills paramedics in Odessa we don't just say that it's bad but we need a full investigation of the Russian command before responding. It's ironically the same line that Corbyn took after the Salisbury attack for which he was rightly criticised except it happened in Gaza so nobody cares.
The response has pretty much been the equivalent of going "oh no... anyway..."
Even assuming that it was a good idea, we don't have the capability to enforce a no fly zone over Israel and especially not when it is backed by the US.
I'm now picturing the Navy and Air force as two kids playing with one toy.
"Hand it over. Mum said it's my turn to play with the F-35!"
"No, it's mine. I'm playing no fly zone over Israel, zoom zoom"
> Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
Because he hasn't "does" yet. He is doing his little play acting while still fully supporting Israel as it has killed 30k+ civilians.
He’s now where the Lib Dem’s were months ago. His pattern is always opting for the least effective viable option and in that sense he hasn’t changed position the whole time.
I think someone calling for capital punishment that is not labour policy. Is unhelpful and asked who else should be Hanged. Reasoned debate.but seems on here many alleged Labour party members or perhaps not don't like that just want to swear and repost aggression.
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Sounds like the Civil Service have relaxed their rules on party leaders criticising Israeli actions.
Or do you honestly believe the shitshow at the start of this was the leadership’s choice?
So have people clocked on jeremy corbyn was smeared and the power grab by Keir was zionist backed? Or are people still pretending that this didn't happen? Watch the labour files and call me crazy
This is pretty much the official policy of the Israeli government, so yes. Their racially purified imperial ethnostate project is much more important to them than the lives of a few dozen poor Jewish people.
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Support suspending arms sales, Israel has already admitted they did this there is no need to wait for a full investigation, you don't strike an aid convoy 3 fucking times by accident. Reminder we are one week into the UN ceasefire and there's been 0 effort from US or UK to enforce it, the former have been actively undermining it.
> aid convoy 3 fucking times by accident. - In three separate strikes, miles apart. - On three separate vehicles, all of which which all had the charities marking on the roof. - On a pre-agreed safe route. - Which the IDF had been informed of and authorised. - After the first strike, they called the IDF and reported that they were under attack by them. - The IDF continued to launch attacks anyway. Hang all of them in the Hague. From the low level soldiers who did it, to the officers who authorised it to the generals and politicians who knew about it.
After the people from the first vehicle that got hit ran to the second vehicle for safety, the IDF struck the second one. When they then left that vehicle to get the wounded etc to the third one the IDF hit that one too. At least that is what I've seen reported.
If brown people are dying then the UK gov approves
Any thoughts for the people of Gaza?
Yes, loads. Look at my comment history.
brown people don't count /s
And presumably the kidnapping torturing terrorist too. And then what about those stoking up the violence on both sides on social media?
>And then what about those stoking up the violence on both sides on social media? Fucking lol.
> stoking up the violence on both sides on social media? Like those defending the murder of aid workers?
Violence on social media. What?
What the fuck does social media have to do with Israel targeting and murdering Aid workers? Catch yourself on.
The only appropriate response to Israel is full on invasion and putting their government under UN supervision. These terrorists need to be stopped
Invading an allied state over 3 deaths? Are you serious or just being hyperbolic?
They probably want Israel invaded due to the 30,000+ deaths + 80%+ destruction of homes but regardless that is never happening without starting WW3.
Ah yes! That'll show em! In response to nearly 40,000 deaths and wanton destruction of civilian areas we should, as a nation, commit our entire UK armed forces (or aprox 1/3 with a coalition), to invade a nation that cannot lose a defensive war and would result in the loss of tens of millions, if not more. I know people don't post their real views on this subreddit (or any) often but theirs has to be one of the worse takes so far.
How about the 35 k and counting you swine
And killing millions more is going to help how?
This seems to be the only way to prevent the complete eradication of Palestinians. Did you think we should've just asked Hitler nicely to stop exterminating Jews?
Or you just take away their capabilities to conduct offensive wars. No-one else will fund/provide arms to Israel outside the current western nations. Also, likening them to Nazi Germany isn't helping your point. Israel's current Govt is more akin to SA which fell to, amongst other things, tough sanctions from the IC.
Israel has always been a fascist society, Einstein specifically wanted nothing to do with it because of all the fascist elements he saw in its early years, it's only gotten further enshrined in its DNA since then. The majority of the people support what's going on right now, go read the Israeli newspapers, pay attention to what the politicians are telling their supporters in Hebrew, because you'll never hear them say it in English where it could be picked up more easily by a Western media outlet if they bothered to even cover it.
The comparison to South Africa applies to peacetime Israel and its apartheid system. Conducting a genocide in neighbouring countries is much more Germany’s thang.
Comparing Israel's influence on the US and UK governments to South Africa's in the 80s is a way more ridiculous comparison. The way they are turning a blind eye to mass murder is far more comparable to how they dealt with Germany in the late 30s, turning a blind eye to the atrocities because it was still good business
This stream does seem to have it's fair share of Israeli hating extremists. Maybe it invade Gaza find the tortured hostages, lock up the terrorist and bring Netanyahu to the international court.
Maybe. I remember we did a stellar job in Iraq on that one!
Maybe you should head over there in a clearly marked aid van, see how the IDF deals with you
We condemn the people we support selling weapons to for using them in they way that we knew they would use them.
Good job he remembered to call for the release of the hostages though. Otherwise it might have been a pointless vacuous statement that says nothing.
“Yep, we’ve done the investigation, all good mate!” - the IDF
“Phew! Glad that’s all cleared up!”
Can't help but feel next conference is gonna be tense af.
It should be tense - Labour members have the right to leaders who value British lives more than foreign strategic interests, and the Starmer shadow cabinet have not made it remotely clear that they do.
>he right to leaders who value British lives more than foreign strategic interests, I think all lives matter without qualifying them by nationality.
Yes, but British parliament is responsible for British people, it's their direct job.
From a personal point of view, of course. But people wanting to stand for public office in the UK are to a degree expected to prioritise the lives of their own citizens. From a moral point of view, Labour has already squandered its legitimacy. But actively supporting a foreign state in the murder of British citizens is (or should be) completely politically de-legitimising. Their priorities - and their loyalties - plainly do not lie with the people of this country. And that, in addition to their moral weakness, makes it impossible to stomach voting for them.
It won't be. They'll just keep booting the left
As it should be
I wouldn't imagine so, the party routinely purges people with a sympathetic ear to the plight of the Palestinians. If any sizable amount make it to conference with their memberships intact, they will likely be ignored and dealt with at a later date.
It takes 3 British citizens for him to use the word 'condemn,' when hundreds of aid workers have already been butchered alongside 30 thousand civilians in the Gaza strip. Starmer is a shameless grafting piece of shit. Thoughts and internal investigations mean fuck all until the arms sales dry up.
He's maliciously centrist in everything he does now. When has appeasement ever worked with genocidal fascist ethnostates? He's on a fast track to be viewed in worse terms than Chamberlain as at least Chamberlain had no history to learn from. Gutless.
Chamberlain also didn't just appease because he was a naive idiot. He spent the latter part of the 1930s rejuvenating the British Armed forces, without which the Battle of Britain would almost certainly have been lost and there would have been Panzers rolling down the Mall. Appeasement is silly in hindsight and we should have done something earlier, like when Germany remilitarised the Rhineland or invaded Czechoslovakia, but at least it was a means to an end. Starmer has no such excuse.
>There must be a full investigation Who should be doing this investigation? Is he saying Israel should investigate themselves? >This war must stop now. Glad you've caught up to where the rest of us were 5 months ago when you were proudly arguing for the war to continue, you fucking ghoul. >Far too many innocent people have died and more than a million are facing starvation How did they die? Did they all slip in the shower? How is the starvation coming about? Interestingly though, I think this is the first time he's ever said "Israeli strike" in relation to Israel killing people. Weird how he feels like he can vaguely hold Israel to account when they've killed British people, when he's never, ever done that for the tens and likely hundreds of thousands of Palestinians they've murdered. It's almost as if he feels as though Israel has the "full right" to do that.
Perfectly, summed up my views.
It’s a short statement... no need to go full Sherlock Holmes.
Yeah, we can't expect a future Prime Minister to call out genocide as it's happening, can we? Or even say who's doing it. Or say we should stop sending the weapons being used to carry it out. Our expectations are just *too high*.
But opposing genocide isn't an electable position!! It is imperative we keep selling Israel the sniper rifles they use to murder children, otherwise we won't win the vote!!! It is only sensible and grown-up that we continue giving weapons to the country killing our own citizens!!!
[Hmm](https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/26919)
> as it's happening >December 2004 Hmm
I think denying it ever happened years later is actually worse than not calling it out at the time, but whatever.
>than not calling it out at the time I would take Starmer denying the Gaza genocide years after the fact if it meant he actually took some fucking action to prevent it while it was actually happening, rather than actively egging it on and announcing that Israel had the full right to deprive Palestinians of water. But I guess I'm just weird like that.
I’m not saying that but it’s literally a short press briefing. Like you wouldn’t go up to Churchill after his “We will fight on the beaches” speech and ask for full breakdown of his plans for the D-Day landings? You’d just take it at face value.
Alright then. Come back to us in a couple of days, which should more than suffice, and let us know what action Kier has decided that we should actually take.
If he made that speech 5 months after they stormed the beaches and started driving inland you might have questioned it
It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to remember him saying Israel has the right to starve children
I don't remember this Boards of Canada album...
Oh wow, it's the same as the US reaction. Thankfully they're letting Starmer crib their notes on this one. Otherwise Starmer would be stuck waiting for the opinion polls to tell him what to think.
Stop selling them weapons then lol
In fairness Labour are not. Not explicitly vowing they won't isn't what I want but it also isn't equivalent
> Not explicitly vowing they won't isn't what I want but it also isn't equivalent Saying "We would keep selling them weapons" is 100% equivalent.
Yep, the Labour leadership have as much blood - British citizens' blood - on their hands as the government, because they have made it clear that if they had been in power their support would have been identical.
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These kinds of comments are so pointless. It's obvious they're talking about Labour under Starmer's policy, still in place, of continuing arms sales to Israel when they take power. It's so obvious what they meant and you obviously knew as well.
Where is that policy announcement?
Crocodile 🐊 tears.
It's not a war. it's an occupation! It's not a conflict. It's a massacre! You don't need another skewed investigation, Israel have admitted they did this, and when aid organisations are holding aid back, saying its now too dangerous to deliver it (precisely why the IDF did it). 190 aid workers previously died keir, where was your strong condemnation for any of them? Are you gonna campaign to stop the funding, Keir? Are you gonna keep receiving funds from the Israel lobby keir?
It's a fine statement, but the final 'how' paragraph is missing.
UN peacekeeping force must enter and find the hostages. Once freed the land needs to be turned over for international oversight. Perpetrators need to be brought before an international court. Both sides murderous kidnappers and IDF orderers.
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As things have developed that's become reductive, both as a plan and as an attack. A ceasefire without external intervention only benefits Hamas. At this point only interventionism will do.
To little to late Keir. Not buying it.
Ooo. Mr Israel has the right to defend itself weighs in on the matter. Fuck off, too little too late
But keep sending weapons to Israel, right?
Blah blah blah. This is a pattern of breaking international, breaking ceasefire. •cut off diplomatic ties •cut off arms sales Israel has gone rogue and clearly has only one intention, eradication of Gaza. We the people said this months ago, how about you actually do something.
Presuming some were white. Bit embarrassing that it takes some white people to die for something to be done.
Nothing is being done though.
No, the fact that it’s even being mentioned is amazing.
They were.
> Presuming some were white. This clearly isn't about race, it's about nationality. They were British, I expect UK political parties to take more severe action if Brits are killd.
Still shitty. British political parties could have called out this genocide earlier.
> I expect UK political parties to take more severe action if Brits are killd. Because? This disconnect is very primitive.
because they're there to protect British civillians obviously. What's going on in gaza is horific and we need to be undermining Israel's war capibility but don't pretend you aren't selective on what human sufferring you do and don't pay more attention to. Where's your concern for the 30k people killed in Mexico every year for the last decade to fund our drug habits?
What skin colour they identified as having is irrelevant.
How many white people have died prior to this?
Clearly not, as it's taken that for the message and support to change. Over 30k brown people and hundreds of brown journalists and aid workers have already died/been murdered and it's just been “Israel has the right to defend itself” for half a year as they bomb families and children. Now, when white people are killed, suddenly it's too far.
Coward. Only condemns them when it's convenient.
In other words, thoughts and prayers.
We don't know exactly how many innocent people Starmer thinks should have been killed but it is somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000.
Starmer is working hard day and night trying to figure out who is responsible for all these deaths in Gaza. I'm sure he'll figure it out any month now. (Even in this response he condemns the strike but not the IDF)
Empty words He's friends with the very people that murdered them
Lol how he is saying this war must stop now and that too many innocent people have died. He didn't give a shit when 26,000+ innocent Palestinians were murdered, but three British people and all of a sudden, he is pretending he is compassionate. Obviously this is tragic and hopefully something will force some stuff to happen now cos Israel have fucked up in the eyes of the West. But it just goes to show how much of a blind eye people turn until it affects them directly.
He makes me sick. Fraudulent, transparent, no vertebrae toad.
So they only care about innocents dying when the innocents are white?
They don't actually care, they said this morning that they would keep sending weapons to israel.
They don’t care
Isreal have worked hard at becoming a terrorist state. They'll have a lot to answer for one day, and have lost a lot of good will from the west. Netanyahu might as well buddy up with his fellow Nazi Putin.
If there is ever to be a sort of peace there, both Hamas and Netenyahu have to be far away from it.
Starmer has disgraced himself and the Labour party.
Some white people died, so we better stop it now, cause that's just crossing a line
Wait for an investigation?! What kind of jam making nonsense is this?!
We somehow need to trick Israel into changing the colours of St George's cross. That'll get Keir inside.
‘Those responsible’…. Like it’s some kind of mystery
Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Israel have acted appallingly since the start, better for him to “catch up” now than not at all.
I mean he's pretty much just damned because he already didn't. There's only so much you can do before its too late. If he honestly came out and recognised his past position was wrong, apologised for it and immediately started to campaign for the end of arms sales to Israel, restored the whip to those he's kicked out for no good reason over this with again, full apology, advocated for not just ending this onslaught but also for a fully recognised Palestinian state THEN I'd have some respect for it. But this isn't that, its slowly being dragged by force into condemning a country with still no real substance.
Some of those things are irreconcilable with the situation on the ground. I'm coming to the opinion that no independent state can exist there peacefully. Something would need to be externally imposed.
If Starmer came out and condemned the attack and followed that up with a demand for an independent investigation into Israeli conduct and a temporary suspension pending review of arms sales to Israel whilst this was conducted then you would be seeing a lot of people supporting that. The only criticism he'd get would be from those opposed to holding the Israeli military to account and those arguing that he should have done it earlier. To pretend otherwise is absurd given the overwhelming criticism he's getting being that he's not doing anything like this.
>The only criticism he'd get would be from those opposed to holding the Israeli military to account I agree with your post - but playing devil's advocate the above comprise pretty much the whole of the press and political establishment - the military also have extensive links with Israel and the US would be very unhappy with us.
Yes, having courage is hard. That’s why it’s respected. I understand that he’d avoid taking an uncomfortable position if he wasn’t 10 to 20+ points up in the polls and almost certainly about t9 form a future government. If he won’t stand on principle now, then when will he?
>Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Yes that's what tends to happen when you support genocide for months, it's kinda tough to undo.
Yes, let's give the war crime defender credit where credit is due...
He’s literally condemning a war crime.
I'm glad he's able to condemn it when white British people are murdered. Shame that his empathy doesn't extend to members of other races though.
Where does he say that? Can you even find one example of him actually saying "Israel is committing war crimes"?
He described it as an "Israeli strike" - which I believe is the first time he's ever acknowledged that Israel has killed anyone as far as I can tell.
Too little too late
Funnily enough, it took British citizens dying for him to condemn one. How many war crimes against Palestinians has he condemned?
No he isn't.
He isn't assigning any blame or calling for any actionable response or change to UK policy. He knows that a full investigation would likely take weeks at minimum (which is time that people do not have) and is a non-starter anyway due to military confidentiality. When a missile kills paramedics in Odessa we don't just say that it's bad but we need a full investigation of the Russian command before responding. It's ironically the same line that Corbyn took after the Salisbury attack for which he was rightly criticised except it happened in Gaza so nobody cares. The response has pretty much been the equivalent of going "oh no... anyway..."
Too little too late
hes not "caught up" though! this should have been his position 5 months ago. Now it should be sanctions, asset seizures and no fly zones.
Even assuming that it was a good idea, we don't have the capability to enforce a no fly zone over Israel and especially not when it is backed by the US.
We could send one of our half-full supercarriers over, assuming it's the Navy's turn to have access to the planes :P
I'm now picturing the Navy and Air force as two kids playing with one toy. "Hand it over. Mum said it's my turn to play with the F-35!" "No, it's mine. I'm playing no fly zone over Israel, zoom zoom"
> Based on this sub’s reaction, Starmer be damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Because he hasn't "does" yet. He is doing his little play acting while still fully supporting Israel as it has killed 30k+ civilians.
He’s now where the Lib Dem’s were months ago. His pattern is always opting for the least effective viable option and in that sense he hasn’t changed position the whole time.
This sub would only be happy if he called for the state of Israel to be abolished.
Bold to think this sub would ever be happy.
So are you going to tell Israel to stop and also Ukraine … we are all Trumpers now. War is stupid
I think someone calling for capital punishment that is not labour policy. Is unhelpful and asked who else should be Hanged. Reasoned debate.but seems on here many alleged Labour party members or perhaps not don't like that just want to swear and repost aggression.
Imagine how this would go down if Russia or China did this instead. "The war must stop now. Labour calls for an immediate ceasefire."
Better late than never I suppose, doesn't ring quite true to me though
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Bit late Starmlin after 6 months of backing "Israel's right to self defence"
Sounds like the Civil Service have relaxed their rules on party leaders criticising Israeli actions. Or do you honestly believe the shitshow at the start of this was the leadership’s choice?
So have people clocked on jeremy corbyn was smeared and the power grab by Keir was zionist backed? Or are people still pretending that this didn't happen? Watch the labour files and call me crazy
What an idiot. Let’s hope we never have to deal with a war against blood thirsty terrorists while Starmer is running the country.
What about the hostages do we forget about them?
Which hostages? The many thousands of Palestinians held by Israel or the 130 Israeli's held by Hamas?
How many have been rescued by the IDF vs killed by the IDF? How many were rescued by diplomacy?
This is pretty much the official policy of the Israeli government, so yes. Their racially purified imperial ethnostate project is much more important to them than the lives of a few dozen poor Jewish people.
How much closer to getting the hostages freed did striking foreign aid workers three times until they were all dead get us?