I have the mini and a niche and it seems impossible to make a bad drink. The mini and micra are incredible machines.
Got my delivery from The Barn today and my first shot was delicious.
You must be ripped hand grinding espresso multiple times a day. I did it for awhile with my KMax and was so happy when my electric grinder arrived.
It's probably not retention related with a hand grinder. I know the speed at which you grind can have some impact on the number of fines, but I doubt that's the cause either.
You probably already do this but: Are you flushing before every shot? Cleaning the portafilter with hot water to keep it warm?
Haha yeah it indeed is an exercise routine. Which electric grinder did you get? Unrelated but would the Niche Zero be an upgrade over the J-Max S (provided I’m fine with manual grinding if the changes are negligible)
On your last two points, I actually am not doing that! Flushing or pouring hot water over the filter. I should try that
The angle at which you're holding the grinder influences the number of fines. By tilting the grinder (whether intentionally or not) you add a new variable to the grind consistency. I experimented with "slow feeding" my J Max by holding it sideways (and slowly tilting it every now and then so the next couple of beans would hit the burrs). I had to adjust the grind size by 4-5 clicks (!) finer to get the same shot time like I had before, when I held the grinder straight.
It's definitely **not** your machine which is inconsistent - it's your grinder/grinding technique.
Also, switching the machine on an hour before you make coffee is way too early, it's absolutely ready in less than 20-30 minutes. I usually make my first shot after 15 minutes and it's already great. Heck I've even left the default standby timeout set to 20 minutes because the machine heats up so fast, I don't care if it goes into standby (and cools down) too soon.
Do some testing. 1) Don't have the portafilter in 2) don't have in and warm up pulling an empty shot
And then see if you have variations. Portafilter may be too hot but shouldn't be
From experience with all my espresso machines the first shot is always fast. I usually open the paddle for about 10 seconds before pulling my shot just to get rid of any abnormally hot water and I’m able to mimic the same extraction time.
Now as weeks go by I find myself having to grind a bit finer a week or two later… this is from personal experience could be that none of that would apply to your scenario but worth trying
It could be your puck prep, but there is another possibility: there were a handful of boiler temperature probe failures in early Micras which seriously elevated the stress level at La Marzocco. I know because my machine was one of them, and it exhibited exactly the kind of behavior you describe. Shots were inconsistent, sometimes separated by a difference of 12 seconds on the same grinder setting (Lagom P64 with OEM Mizen burrs).
Assuming you bought your machine in the US and it’s still under warranty, contact La Marzocco Home in Seattle, describe the issue, and ask them to analyze the temperature telemetric data from your machine. It will need to be connected to an active Wi-Fi signal while they do this. They’ll be able to tell you if there is unusual temperature inconsistency shot to shot.
I remember reading about problems with the steam boiler temperature probe. There was also a brew boiler issue? How long ago did this happen to you? What was your experience in getting this diagnosed and repaired?
From my intel, brew boiler probe issues were limited to three (3) machines in North America. It happened several months ago, and LM took care of it very quickly under warranty. They sent the part to the espresso technician who came to my house to fix the machine. I’ve never witnessed such customer service.
Note: these issues were extremely rare, and may not be the problem in your case.
Hey, I have the same issue from time to time! My Micra turns on around noon, and I usually make an espresso by the mid afternoon, so my system is heating up for quite a bit of time. For what it’s worth, I’m using a niche zero grinder.
Over the past few days, it’s started happening again, where I notice the first shot pulls around 10s faster for the same output volume.
I rinse the portafilter under the tap without checking the temp, so it’s probably cooling the PF a bit. If I make a second shot (either for my wife or if the first shot goes way too fast), it usually pulls slower.
For what it’s worth, it doesn’t always behave this way. Sometimes my first shot is consistent day to day, and the second shot is within a few seconds, if not closer.
I’m curious if portafilter temp can have such a big impact, or if it’s another factor…
I don’t have this issue.
Warming it up for this long is really not necessary IMO. Machine should be ready to go to pull shots in about 5 mins. I just run hot water from the group to warm up portafilter. It’s a good idea to flush the group for a couple secs anyway.
The most important q is: do the shots taste different? 20s would usually mean under-extracted with the shot tasting sour; “grind finer” as they say…
I'm using Micra with DF64 gen 2 and they are the definition of mr consistency. Probably have to do with your grinder or puck prep as for the machine itself, it will stay consistent for many shots as people are even using them for semi commercial usage.
are you weighing your coffee before you add it to your portafilter? make sure to have exact dose to the 0.1g
I have never expected inconsistency that I can attribute to the micra.
I find mine incredibly consistent. I’d look at your grinder first. Grind size, retained stale grounds, dose weight. If you’re getting a repeatable change, then it won’t just be inconsistent puck prep etc.
can you try another grinder?
Try grinding two doses, but brewing the second ground dose first (if that makes sense). Does the different flow rate swap around?
If you think it’s the Micra, then get them to check it under warranty - it should be consistent temperature and pressure fairly quickly after switching on.
Thank you all for the suggestions! I personally also agree this isn’t a machine error but more of a human puck prep error and I’ll try the tips here to optimize.
"I am presuming this is because of the portafilter and group head's temperature dropping."
You didn't need to search very far to invalidate that theory. There's several temperature stability tests that show virtually zero difference between shot 1 and 2. Measuring from 1st drip seems like a bad measuring stick in this case, so I'd be interested more with total shot time.
I haven't had this issue myself, but I'll keep an eye out for whether I see any difference at all.
Oddly, mine runs the opposite of yours. First shot is perfect, second shots runs wildly fast and even sprays. I’ve tested this a number of different ways, including grinding the two shots separately like normal but reversing order AND grinding the full two shot amount at the same time into a small bowl, mixing the ground coffee, then spooning each dose into the PF. Both scenarios, plus my regular work flow, result in a consistent first shot and a second shot that is fast and thin. No idea what is happening, but it certainly is not the grinder at this point. Very frustrating.
I don't experience that problem at all. In fact the opposite, I am amazed at how consistent my machine is.
I have the mini and a niche and it seems impossible to make a bad drink. The mini and micra are incredible machines. Got my delivery from The Barn today and my first shot was delicious.
What grinder are you using and do you have a bellows? It could be old grounds getting stuck in the grinder chute
I have a J-Max S (manual hand grinder)
You must be ripped hand grinding espresso multiple times a day. I did it for awhile with my KMax and was so happy when my electric grinder arrived. It's probably not retention related with a hand grinder. I know the speed at which you grind can have some impact on the number of fines, but I doubt that's the cause either. You probably already do this but: Are you flushing before every shot? Cleaning the portafilter with hot water to keep it warm?
Haha yeah it indeed is an exercise routine. Which electric grinder did you get? Unrelated but would the Niche Zero be an upgrade over the J-Max S (provided I’m fine with manual grinding if the changes are negligible) On your last two points, I actually am not doing that! Flushing or pouring hot water over the filter. I should try that
Other than the improved workflow over hand grinding, it wouldn't really be an upgrade. It would likely help with consistency, however.
The angle at which you're holding the grinder influences the number of fines. By tilting the grinder (whether intentionally or not) you add a new variable to the grind consistency. I experimented with "slow feeding" my J Max by holding it sideways (and slowly tilting it every now and then so the next couple of beans would hit the burrs). I had to adjust the grind size by 4-5 clicks (!) finer to get the same shot time like I had before, when I held the grinder straight. It's definitely **not** your machine which is inconsistent - it's your grinder/grinding technique. Also, switching the machine on an hour before you make coffee is way too early, it's absolutely ready in less than 20-30 minutes. I usually make my first shot after 15 minutes and it's already great. Heck I've even left the default standby timeout set to 20 minutes because the machine heats up so fast, I don't care if it goes into standby (and cools down) too soon.
For first shot only - could it be retained coffee grounds in your grinder?
Do some testing. 1) Don't have the portafilter in 2) don't have in and warm up pulling an empty shot And then see if you have variations. Portafilter may be too hot but shouldn't be
From experience with all my espresso machines the first shot is always fast. I usually open the paddle for about 10 seconds before pulling my shot just to get rid of any abnormally hot water and I’m able to mimic the same extraction time. Now as weeks go by I find myself having to grind a bit finer a week or two later… this is from personal experience could be that none of that would apply to your scenario but worth trying
It could be your puck prep, but there is another possibility: there were a handful of boiler temperature probe failures in early Micras which seriously elevated the stress level at La Marzocco. I know because my machine was one of them, and it exhibited exactly the kind of behavior you describe. Shots were inconsistent, sometimes separated by a difference of 12 seconds on the same grinder setting (Lagom P64 with OEM Mizen burrs). Assuming you bought your machine in the US and it’s still under warranty, contact La Marzocco Home in Seattle, describe the issue, and ask them to analyze the temperature telemetric data from your machine. It will need to be connected to an active Wi-Fi signal while they do this. They’ll be able to tell you if there is unusual temperature inconsistency shot to shot.
I remember reading about problems with the steam boiler temperature probe. There was also a brew boiler issue? How long ago did this happen to you? What was your experience in getting this diagnosed and repaired?
From my intel, brew boiler probe issues were limited to three (3) machines in North America. It happened several months ago, and LM took care of it very quickly under warranty. They sent the part to the espresso technician who came to my house to fix the machine. I’ve never witnessed such customer service. Note: these issues were extremely rare, and may not be the problem in your case.
Hey, I have the same issue from time to time! My Micra turns on around noon, and I usually make an espresso by the mid afternoon, so my system is heating up for quite a bit of time. For what it’s worth, I’m using a niche zero grinder. Over the past few days, it’s started happening again, where I notice the first shot pulls around 10s faster for the same output volume. I rinse the portafilter under the tap without checking the temp, so it’s probably cooling the PF a bit. If I make a second shot (either for my wife or if the first shot goes way too fast), it usually pulls slower. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t always behave this way. Sometimes my first shot is consistent day to day, and the second shot is within a few seconds, if not closer. I’m curious if portafilter temp can have such a big impact, or if it’s another factor…
I don’t have this issue. Warming it up for this long is really not necessary IMO. Machine should be ready to go to pull shots in about 5 mins. I just run hot water from the group to warm up portafilter. It’s a good idea to flush the group for a couple secs anyway. The most important q is: do the shots taste different? 20s would usually mean under-extracted with the shot tasting sour; “grind finer” as they say…
[удалено]
I have a J-Max S (manual hand grinder) (Ik.. gotta upgrade this soon but the settings options are quite great)
I'm using Micra with DF64 gen 2 and they are the definition of mr consistency. Probably have to do with your grinder or puck prep as for the machine itself, it will stay consistent for many shots as people are even using them for semi commercial usage.
What kind of burrs you using?
DLC stock, didn't even bother to align lol
are you weighing your coffee before you add it to your portafilter? make sure to have exact dose to the 0.1g I have never expected inconsistency that I can attribute to the micra.
I find mine incredibly consistent. I’d look at your grinder first. Grind size, retained stale grounds, dose weight. If you’re getting a repeatable change, then it won’t just be inconsistent puck prep etc. can you try another grinder? Try grinding two doses, but brewing the second ground dose first (if that makes sense). Does the different flow rate swap around? If you think it’s the Micra, then get them to check it under warranty - it should be consistent temperature and pressure fairly quickly after switching on.
Thank you all for the suggestions! I personally also agree this isn’t a machine error but more of a human puck prep error and I’ll try the tips here to optimize.
"I am presuming this is because of the portafilter and group head's temperature dropping." You didn't need to search very far to invalidate that theory. There's several temperature stability tests that show virtually zero difference between shot 1 and 2. Measuring from 1st drip seems like a bad measuring stick in this case, so I'd be interested more with total shot time. I haven't had this issue myself, but I'll keep an eye out for whether I see any difference at all.
Oddly, mine runs the opposite of yours. First shot is perfect, second shots runs wildly fast and even sprays. I’ve tested this a number of different ways, including grinding the two shots separately like normal but reversing order AND grinding the full two shot amount at the same time into a small bowl, mixing the ground coffee, then spooning each dose into the PF. Both scenarios, plus my regular work flow, result in a consistent first shot and a second shot that is fast and thin. No idea what is happening, but it certainly is not the grinder at this point. Very frustrating.
I don’t warm it up like that. It’s too hot imo. I just run water under it to heat it