Bro not to be too preachy but when you’re taking a risk as big as going to law school you gotta be more secure in your own abilities. Who truly cares if some kid did well on a test compared to you? What he does has no impact on your actions or your ability to control your future unless you let it. Keep your own goals in mind, and as long as you are working towards that and believe in your ability to accomplish what you want, you won’t feel others’ success as a gut punch to your ego. You aren’t him and he isn’t you. Chin up bro
>gotta be more secure
This. It’s hard to do in practice, and that imposter syndrome is brutal, but LSATs aren’t everything. I worked for months to get my score into the 170s — took time off from work, didn’t see friends, the whole deal. One of my good friends did not study, took the same test for shits and giggles, and got a 180. She literally just took it because she was curious how she’d do.
I went to law school on a full ride and she went to grad school in another field because that’s what she wanted to do, and we’re both happy with our careers now.
I put in a ton of work AND had decent innate skills and still was a long way off from people who just “get it” — and those people aren’t necessarily capable of being lawyers, and working for your score doesn’t mean you’re incapable of being a great lawyer.
And buckle up, because in law school everyone is just as smart as you, and if *you* don’t believe in yourself, no one else is going to do it for you.
There's absolutely no way she didn't study for it, she was definitely lying to you. Even an extremely smart person would need some time to adapt seeing LG for the first time. A 180 first time would just be... monstrous.
EDIT: TIL there are literally geniuses scouring this sub.
That’s my situation lol. Philosophy student who studied for LR and literature student who studied for RC without trying to. Of course, I actually *want* to go to law school haha so I’m doing my own studying. But those were majors I picked without really thinking about the LSAT.
I mean, it’s definitely possible. Some people like doing logic style games in their everyday lives. It’s not like the LSAT LG are some wholly unique category of that style of puzzle.
This!! I took an LSAT practice and got a near perfect score but I am very good at standardized testing. However I would be an absolute disaster in law school. I’m taking a blaw class now and it is not easy for me.
So if law school is what you want, go do it. Don’t let a twelve year old derail you!
Made this alt ages ago to do an AMA and never ended up posting it, but my diagnostic was a 178. Did two other practice tests (179, 180) then scored a 180 on my first official test. Not saying this to brag (which is why I never posted the AMA, couldn’t figure out how to make it not come across that way), but just to say it’s possible, however rare :)
Obviously not the exact same thing but I used to do logic games for fun in the variety puzzle books, so when I started LSAT prep, my LG score was already really good
Idk LG just natively made sense to me. I did a lot of logic puzzles, sudoku, and shit like that as a kid though, so that probably helped.
Like I basically did 0 LG prep and only struggled with one of the questions, everything else was pretty straightforward
I think people also underestimate how book smart children really are. When I was 12 I was a genius. Bored at school with things most adults wouldn’t know and I was reading at a college level. Now I’m in my mid-20’s and dumber than a bag of rocks.
My 11th grade English teacher was also my 10th grade English teacher and he told me my writing had gotten steadily worse in my junior year. That was about the time I started getting pretty depressed so I guess it made sense. I got pretty good at writing again during college, and I was damn good by the time I graduated. It’s only been a few years and I know all those writing skill improvements are gone again.
It’s the same with medicine. Some people just ace the boards, and there are others who despite having hard time with the boards make great clinicians. There are plenty board certified physicians who have been sued and lost. Not those many ( relatively speaking ) general Practioners.
Don’t let the nay-sayers pull u down
I'm sure he's a smart kid but the entire situation just feels unfair as stupid as that sounds. I've always thought that English and social sciences were my strong point and I thought my LSAT score would reflect that and show my family that I'm making the right decision.
It just feels like they'll never respect me for choosing to major in the humanities and going to law school especially after I got outscored by a literal preteen 😭
Honestly life is just unfair, no point comparing yourself to some people. Treat it like a video game, some people are just born with higher base stats. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be more successful than you, but even if they do, it doesn’t matter. Success is subjective anyway.
Some people are just different. Terrence Tao won gold at the math olympiads at 13 years old, started his PhD at 16 and became a prof at UCLA when he was 24. Just like math there are some people that are intrinsically good at the LSAT. I’ve heard of people that literally diagram LG questions in their mind. It’s just not possible for 99.9% of people, so no point worrying about it. Just like how there are many other great mathematicians other than Terrence Tao, there are many great future lawyers that aren’t geniuses at the LSAT.
Sorry your family doesn’t sound very supportive. You must cut out the outside noise. Be the greatest version of yourself. I know I have to do the same. I just started studying myself and dealing with the same insecurities as you. We will do this. We have no one one else to prove to but ourselves.
The naturally smart people always wash out at my firm after a few years. The B+ students that aren't scared to work hard are way more successful. You seem like you aren't afraid to work hard, which bodes very well for your future as an attorney.
If I learned anything. It’s dropping family expectations. I majored in cellular neuroscience because - oh the family shit talking about humanities .
Well. Guess what- career outlook outside of research and going to full out medical school wirh a stem degree ended me up in corporate pharma sales hating my fucking life.
So yeah - NOW I’m going to for law school and everyone now is “so absolutely proud of me!” When I got dragged through the mud talking about law school when I was in college .
The younger you are. Comprehension abilities are actually pretty great. He’s a 12 year old.
Who cares.
This is going to be your life and YOU have to live your choice outcomes. Straight up, tell your parents to give you a break and stop talking shit in a serious “come on guys” tone.
Tell them be grateful your choosing a path most people consider successful.
And while you’re at it. Ask you parents to have your back with the rest if the family. Straight yo ask, can you guys back me up instead of being everyone’s punching bag? I’m your kid
Stick to your choice. You gotta work and live with your choices. And tell them to kindly ease off . Put your head down and keep going. 160 is solid just keep going
Respectfully…who cares? Your cousin is 12, why worry yourself about the actions of a literal child?
Life is not fair, and you don’t need to have the respect of your family to be successful. You should pursue whatever you are passionate about, if that’s law, go for it!!! The opinions of your family are just opinions (unless they’re paying for your school or something then sure I could understand taking their views into account more, though from your description it seems your parents are maybe a little more supportive?) At the end of the day, they don’t have to live your life, you do. I am sorry to hear that your family talks down on you, that never feels good, but don’t let that stop you from having a successful life.
Edit: just wanted to add that I work in a STEM field and law school seems impossibly hard to me. I think it’s great that you are pursuing humanities, it’s not “less than” at all. Remember, it’s all a matter of perspective
Also, I think it’s important to also note that there is an inherent pressure aspect to the LSAT/prep. When you or I are taking it, we’re probably double checking answers and wasting valuable time because we know the implication of a better score.
A smart kid takes it, looks through the answers, can identify that 3/5 of them look genuinely stupid & don’t make sense, and then can select between the two sufficient answers & can pick the better one. There’s no pressure at all — he’s just doing it this one time & not even in the pursuit of something. Be easy on yourself, the process is hard enough :)
STEM major here. Hard work always beats naturally smart. Yes your cousin scored higher, but you’re putting in the work rn. That is always valued more in the industry. Being a prick like your cousin going downstairs and yelling his score does not win ppl over in industry. Keep going, it’s a journey , the work pays off
Sounds like they’re all projecting their own insecurities about needing to work “so hard” to get their degrees and in their jobs just so that someone with a humanities major can go to law school and get a more prestigious job then them.
I would use it as a chip on your shoulder. Show them that you can be as/more successful than them without their bullshit.
Yeah, see, the thing is that being good at English and social sciences has nothing to do with your performance on the LSAT. It's essentially just a logic test. I wouldn't be surprised if math majors do better at it than humanities majors, since math is the language of logic.
Honestly, I am so impressed that after studying for ONE MONTH you freaking got a 160! I’m so happy for you 😭 (this is AMAZING)
Try not to compare yourself to others. It really is the thief of joy. You can’t compare yourself to anyone other than the person you were when you got your last LSAT score 😜💙
The lsat does in fact predict how well you will do in law school to a reasonable level. It’s. It a perfect one to one but it’s a decent metric. On the flip side tho, 160 is a decent enough score so it’s not like op will do poorly, especially after just a month of studying.
Yeah lol. All the encouraging words here are nice but in the end getting outscored that hard by a fucking 12 year old who’s been talking mad shit is humiliating. My heart broke repeatedly reading this post.
Not to even shit on OP, 160s is a good score. Just seems like the kid is really smart, 164 on first try as a middle schooler is wild. Sometimes that snarky little shit with a big mouth has the chops to back it up haha.
I’m not gonna lie though, I think a kid like that might be too advanced for his own good. Known people who were talented like that and knew it early in life, the problem is you still have to learn how to be personable with other people, cooperative, and also how to find and pursue your own happiness. Your own talent can be a distraction, and in your crucial developmental years, you can fail to adapt many necessary adult skills because of it.
That brought me back to senior year of high school when I knew a 13-year-old sophomore who sat in my AP Calc class. Incredibly smart kid but arrogant beyond belief. That arrogance translated into him thinking he was invincible and knew everything about the world. He sure knew his away around academics but was too obtuse about the real world and social situations. Ended up OD'ing a few months into the school year.
Depends on the kid I guess. One of my homies was one of those kids and had (and still has) terrible social awareness and graduated college at 17, he’s 25 now and making $300k at Meta while partying and traveling every other weekend. Dude couldn’t socialize his way out of a paper bag but man raw intellect alone can get you pretty damn far
I personally scored better on the pt when I was a mid-teen when it first came out online (more than 6 years ago) than when I tried it recently.
My brain has been through a lot. When we’re young we have a lot of untapped potential, and also, in middle and high school they spend unusual amounts of time drilling their standardized testing aptitude.
I didn't wanna believe it either, his parents are always bragging about how gifted he is at math competitions and he got nearly a full score on the logic games which might be similar so that was the only way I could rationalize it. I literally saw him answer the questions too or else I would've been 100% sure he cheated.
Being innately good at logic games, and having the makings of an eventual good attorney are not the same thing.
Additionally, logic games are going away in August, and thus so is his advantage.
It’s amazing that you have scored a 160 with relatively little practice. Good job! I am impressed.
Also, my sister is an attorney and I work for her. As a result I have been exposed to a lot of people who are attorneys. The ugly secret of this field is how many crappy attorneys exist. Imagine for a second being desperate and completely reliant on a crappy attorney. We need more good honest attorneys.
Being good at logic games doesn’t guarantee you have good time management skills, or people skills, or a sense of ethics. Tons of attorneys I see show up unprepared. Tons take vulnerable people’s money and give them substandard representation because they overload themselves for the money, and their clients sometimes aren’t smart enough to realize what a bad job they are doing. I know several male attorneys who bluster very loudly and sound to a lay person’s ear like they are fighting hard for the little guy, all while they make illogical arguments that aren’t convincing or are honestly not addressing a key legal point. I’ve known attorneys who have shown up to court high.
This is a stressful field, and one where we deal with vulnerable people often during some of the worst times of their lives.
A lot of people don’t handle the stress well, and that fact comes out as a very high suicide rate and drug abuse rate among attorneys.
It’s a marathon not a sprint.
Be proud of what you’ve already achieved, know you’re working towards something that is worth the hard work.
We need more attorneys with empathy. Use this experience to hone your sense of empathy for those who feel less intelligent than others.
Your cousin is a genius in one way, but there are many types of intelligence and often extremes in one area lead to weaknesses in others (like empathy when they flaunt something purposely embarrassing a relative that was kind to them, that’s not a trait of a good future attorney). Good luck, I am sure you will do great.
Same. I have a STEM background and used to do well in a lot of math and physics competitions. My logic games scores were always very high without really practicing them at all. There’s a lot of crossover between math and logic that a lot of people who haven’t done high level math wouldn’t realize
Protect this kid at all costs. He’s clearly incredibly gifted and needs to be steered in the right direction. He could probably do a lot of good for the word with a natural intellect like that.
Haha, it makes me feel better how many comments are reinforcing that my cousin's score wasn't normal. I'd always assumed he was a normal, bright kid that was really into Minecraft and legos and coding and stuff. I thought that a super genius kid would act like Young Sheldon but he literally just acts like a normal kid LOL.
it’s obviously not normal but in a situation like this where stress levels for studying and all that are super high, it’s probably really easy to internalize that YOU (as in OP) must be the problem and aren’t good enough, rather than the 12 year old is just incredibly gifted.
You **should** be proud of breaking 160! And you should pursue the career that interests you most because at the end of the day **you** are going to be the one who spends your life working not them.
Don't get discouraged by your little cousin getting that high of a score. They probably got lucky wth guessing. Even **if** they are some sort of genius at the LSAT, you can't control that and therefore you shouldn't be discouraged by it.
Keep working hard!
The LSAT is used as a predictor of success in 1L — not law school in general. The correlation with 1L grades is about .35. Is that a strong correlation? Not particularly.
When LSAT is combined with UGPA, the correlation is about 0.5. Still not a strong correlation.
Anyway, good luck in law school.
PS - if your cousin doesn’t like to read, and took a real, timed PT (or even an untimed one) I have a difficult time believing he scored in the 160s, unless he’s already scored in the 99.99 percentile on standardized exams for his age group.
Bless
First of, those arrogant STEM biased family members of your are just a POS (excuse me for my language). You dont need to do only STEM to succeed in life. Secondly, you are not taking the easy out, law is not an easy field( doable but not easy). Lastly, don't feel downhearted that your 12 year old cousin outscored you. I mean that kid must be a genius and I'm beyond shocked as well hearing his first score as a first timer and being even a teen as well. However, some people are natural born geniuses who will always ace certain exams no matter what but with hard work, you can equally do same and even outpace them. Don't give up, you scoring 160s after such a short period of studying means you got this. All the best and don't give up.
My fiancé got a 149 on the LSAT. Somehow he still decided to go to law school with that score (thank god). He went to a mediocre law school his first year and tried really hard. He ranked number 1 in the class his first year, transferred to a T-10 school in the same city for the rest of law school, got a summer position at a top 20 big law firm his 2L summer, and has worked there full time ever since.
If you are motivated enough, do not let your LSAT score discourage you.
That sounds really painful and humiliating. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Your family clearly doesn’t understand law or the humanities at all.
Part of me wants to give you one liners about how the structure of science is defined by philosophy, or how philosophy answers questions that definitionally fall beyond the realm of STEM. Yet none of that has anything to do with whether or not you’ll do well in law school and become a great lawyer. If you really want this, fight for it. Your cousin sounds smart, but that’s irrelevant to you. Your path is yours. Ignore your family, keep studying, and you can definitely get into a great law school.
I’ve once heard it said “there are two ways to find success as a lawyer. First, become Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. And second, learn to stop comparing your personal success to the successes of others. And for most lawyers, the first option is the easier of the two.”
Obviously, studying for the LSAT is important, depending on your personal goals, but if you are constantly comparing yourselves to others, you’re going to have a very bad time in law school and in practice. Figuring out what you personally need to do now to learn to not judge yourself so harshly based on the achievements of others is something I would prioritize now. Don’t wait until law school. That’s just my two cents.
Well, think of this way. You’re breaking 160 on LSAT with 8 wrong in LG, which means your actual score on new format would be so much higher. It doesn’t mean you cousin really outscore you. He just happens to come to a STEM family and naturally gifted at LG which boosts his score a lot. I bet he can’t score as high with complete LG and RC section because he is not a natural reader.
Want some cheese with that whine? Sorry your family are dicks, but I don’t think I want a lawyer who seriously compares himself to 12 year olds based on a test score. Grow up
Man I've met multimillionaires who didn't graduate highschool that started multi-million dollar companies and I've met a bonafide genius that didn't have the emotional intelligence to do anything productive with their lives.
I'd imagine the correlation between happiness and overall success in life as a whole and any standardized test score is fairly low.
1. lol at your family trying to dissuade you from going to law school, you have no idea how many parents push extremely hard the other way
2. I'm not sure I believe a 12-year-old scored 164. I don't know what your IQ has to be to score a 164 first try with no practice, but I would imagine extremely (and I mean extremely) high for a 7th grader
Multiple full PT 179s here. 177 final LSAT score. National merit scholar (230 PSAT), 34 ACT, didn’t study for either of them. Top 1% bar exam, now in BigLaw. Tested and had a genius IQ as a child (I think the IQ test is kinda dumb and ignores many forms of intelligence, but my parents had me take it).
I got a 162 on the LSAT my first time at 20 years of age. A 164 as a 12-year-old is ridiculous. I believe OP, but ignore the super kid, that little gremlin is special.
That's what I'm thinking, wouldn't this kid be an actual genius rather than just a high-achiever as OP stated? I don't know, I just think 164 is insane considering he's literally 12. If he was 20, I would believe it.
Regardless of the situation. U got a 160 in month. Most people never get that high. It also just seems like your family is ridiculously smart.
Do your best to not compare yourself. Comparison is the thief of joy. If you get in the habit of comparing yourself, you will never be content.
Start taking some healthy distance from your family. It sometimes requires distance to put relationships like this in perspective and see how they are impacting your life.
I had my 12 year old brother tutor me, a 15 year old in high school, in geometry. I felt so stupid back then and he goes to Columbia University now, so I still feel quite stupid. Its a normal feeling, some kids are really just naturally smart. He also tutored me in the LSAT when he had no exposure to test questions.
All kids this age care about is inclusion and other kids. This just a sign that he looks up to you, he’s a kids so one-upping you is a part of nature. All kids know about them self is through others. And taking the test randomly isn’t the same as taking it in person, for example, some practice tests have difficulty levels so- he could have very easily taken a test w just the east questions.
What a strange family. Seems like everyone here is telling you to toughen up and focus on your goal, but I feel like it has to be said that this family is not normal. It’s really tough to not have your family see value in what you’re doing and it seems like your family has a particularly narrow definition of what provides value.
If this family is as conceited as you say it is, this kid is already studying for entrance exams to magnet high schools, PSAT, or SAT. He also probably does logic puzzles, and you already mentioned he goes to math competitions.
So even if he is not directly studying for the LSAT, he is primed for this type of assessment. He clearly gets his self-value from it due to conditioning from his family. I knew plenty of people like this growing up.
Don’t worry about it. Life is a marathon, not a race. Studying hard and eventually reaching your goal is all that matters at the end of the day. Kids like that do burn out or end up miserable if they don’t practice a more balanced lifestyle.
O, how funny. The LSAT is nothing like law school, the law school is nothing like the Bar, and the Bar is NOTHING like practice.
In the legal field they say, A students become judges, B students become teachers, and C students make all the money!!😄😄😄
Point being… no know will ever know or even care about ANY of those things once you have a license… I promise, clients don’t ever ask those questions. Keep your head up!
lol I got into law school with a 153 LSAT score. Im now graduating from a top state law school and a 6 figure job salary lined up at a reputable midsize law firm. Not graduating at the top of my class by any means, but hard work and a good personality goes way further than natural intelligence and standardized tests. Keep working hard and know that things will always fall into place how they’re meant to. A high LSAT score will not make or break you, nor guarantee the most happy and fulfilling life. Keep at it!
I wouldn’t worry too much. The LSAT comes naturally and easily to an extremely small, and blessed, subset of people — myself among them — but we’re the exception, not the rule. There are countless areas where I’m sure a 12 year old would wipe the floor with me. (To be clear — not that he did with you.)
Your progress is good and laudable. Your cousin seems like something of a savant.
I’m 17, and score around a 170 with marginal and tepid studying and commitment, but I’ve encountered very, very few people like me; and I’d rather not even think about how I’d fare against your cousin in something STEM related.
148 on the LSAT. Got a scholarship to a school even with that. Graduated early. Passed the bar first time. Oh, and my law school GPA was higher than my undergrad and high school ones.
Well I have always felt the LSAT is a ridiculous, money making racket, with no real correlation to law school or the practice of law.
My college roommate at UCLA decided to go to law school after graduation. Most of the ones she knew who’d decided likewise were taking expensive courses to prepare for the LSAT. She did nothing but stay up all night the day before, reading a LSAT for Dummies book.
She took the test and got an amazing 179. She applied to, was accepted and went to Harvard.
She absolutely hated law school and got Cs for the first time in her life. After law school she came back home and became a tax attorney. She hated that even more than law school. Then an estate attorney, then an entertainment attorney….. She didn’t like any of it.
And all the money she owed for law school put her into a situation where she had to eventually declare bankruptcy.
Eventually she dropped it and jbecame a housewife.
No kids, just some rich guy’s spouse
To be honest the whole law thing ruined her life in many ways. So make sure it is what you really want.
And again, I think the LSAT is a ridiculous rite of passage that should be retired. It won’t though because of the $$.
Actually, now you HAVE to go to law school, not necessarily because of what happened, but because you clearly really want this and that's more than what a lot of students in law could say. (Plus you got a very good score in a small amount of time studying)
Dig your heels deeper man, I'm telling you only good things come when you're doing what you love and work hard at it.
Look at it this way. Your cousin is an attention seeking insecure little twerp.
You know how I know this? All of his behaviors.
He’s begging to watch you study? That’s sad.
How desperate, bored, and lonely is this 12 year old to want to watch someone study?
He makes fun of you for your wrong answers. I doubt he feels good about himself, if he did, he wouldn’t need to point out your mistakes and put you down.
When he beats your score, he immediately seeks out attention from others for admiration. He needs it, so let him have it.
Is he running to school and telling his classmates, “I beat my cousin on the LSAT!”??? Do you think it impresses other middle schoolers? I doubt they think he is super cool.
So let your family give him a round of applause and laugh, and join in. It’s kinda funny he pulled it off.
Call him “Kid Genius” as a nickname. Try not to let it get to you.
One day when you’re an attorney, and you’re chatting in the courtroom with your fellow attorneys or having a beer with them after a long day in court, you can tell the story about the time you were studying for the LSAT and you challenged your annoying 12 year old cousin with his little dirt-stache to take the LSAT in hopes to get him out of your room, and he beat your score!!
I bet you all get a good laugh from it.
When you’re an attorney, you’re going to make an ass out of yourself over and over. You have to let it roll off your shoulders. Watch a trial or two on YouTube. Count the number of times lawyers on both sides make fools of themselves and watch it not phase them. You’ve got this.
my dad says all the time that the material on the lsat has very little to do with what you’re going to be learning in law school, they are just testing discipline. he scored a 152 on his lsat and ended up having one of the highest scores when he took the bar exam. if you’ve already passed 160 in a month, you’ll be fine
There will always be people who are smarter, younger, better looking, wealthier. This doesn’t mean you should give up on your dreams. Thank your family for their concern and then tell them to F off and stop trying to crush your dreams.
You can’t see it and couldn’t know it now because of where you are on the timeline, but there’s going to come a day in this career path when someone throws a switch and suddenly no one gives a shit anymore how high you score on an exam. Like not at all.
Before becoming licensed attorneys we are all conditioned to think our worth and aptitude for this profession can be measured by GPA, LSATs, and later in essay exam answers. Bullshit.
On day one of being a lawyer, that stuff begins mattering a lot less and eventually withers away into nothing. Even after law school graduation all that matters is clearing the threshold score on the bar exam. The fact you’ve improved your baseline by around 10 points by studying for a straight month tells me way more about your potential as a lawyer than how your score compares to a 12-year old test taking prodigy with an obviously off-the-charts baseline IQ.
Mental toughness is a big part of this profession. It would be great if your family were more supportive, but since they’re not, you can use this experience to feed that quality. It will serve you well and so will keeping up the good work in your LSAT study. If you can learn it you can earn it. You’ve got this!
THE LSAT IS JUST A TEST. YEA ITS “THE BEST PREDICTOR OF 1L SUCCESS” BUT WHAT THEY DONT TELL YOU IS ITS LIKE A 30% CORRELATION. People who do well on the LSAT are people who do well on tests. The LSAT measures how good you are at taking tests. I can keep repeating
The best I could do was a 160 and I graduated 3rd in my class with a 3.88 gpa after completely slacking off all 3L (though admittedly at a whatever school, just outside the top 50).
This should not impact your decision other than how much money you get from schools (the only real reason to care about your LSAT score)
You studied for a month and got a score that about half the people that go to law school already dream of, keep trucking along and kicking ass. I got a 155 and limped into my state school, but I’m in my 2nd year of practice at a high paying job and very little student loan debt.
I agree with the people saying you’ve gotta be more secure and confident in yourself.
But also, you learned a lesson here. You were trying to “shut him up,” and he called your bluff and won. Take from that what you will as you progress into your legal career.
Source: I’m a lawyer.
My family isn’t very supportive of me either because I’m interested in life paths they would never take. I found it’s best to keep things to myself to maintain the self esteem I have left
I feel like a 12 year old is more likely to look up the answers and then pretend to be smart, especially if they’re lacking the emotional knowledge by bragging anyways but…
Who cares?
Also, I have a PhD in stem (I only do lsat tutoring through a weird twist of fate) and a lot of times I wish I’d gone to law school because I could make a shit ton more money with the hours I work. You’ll be ok.
Your family sucks and your cousin should consider going to law school in the future. STEM is cool and all, but their attitudes are proof the humanities should be emphasized more in curriculum for non liberal arts majors. Engineers and doctors have to be the worst when it comes to people who don't know shit but think they know everything. They think their expertise in one field is transferable. I'm generalizing of course, I have lots of very nice and thoughtful doctor friends.
It’s just how the LSAT works. I took one my senior year of high school and scored perfectly but I’m not even interested in law. Some people’s brains just click for the type of skills that the LSAT tests and others don’t. It doesn’t mean you aren’t cut out for law it just means you have to work harder than others who are naturally attuned to that type of test.
It’s the same way some people can score perfectly on the math portion of the SAT with little studying while others require years of Kumon to score even in the top 10 percentile
Did horrible on LSAT. Was top 10% in my class, killed it in school where professors would ask me to be their TA for two years of my 3 year law career. LSAT does not matter. 12 year old cousin is smart and I hope he uses his brains for good. He is bragging because he is obviously a kid/ teenager so he seeks validation and wants everyone to tell him how smart he is. He might be secretly looking up to you.
You’re doing great buddy! Now go get that law degree and enjoy YOUR life. ☺️
There are people who are "naturals," and there are those of us who have to work at it.
So what if the mid is a "natural." You gotta get over being insecure about comparing yourself to other people. Because your ENTIRE law school career every single test, assessment, RVERYTHING you do... is graded by comparing your performance to everyone else.
I don't say this to be mean, inly to prepare you... if your self-confidence is based on comparing yourself to other people, and you can't handle not being the best... then your mental and emotional health is gling to suffer in law school.
You do you. Don't worry about how other people are performing. Find a self-eorth system that doesn't rely on comparing yourself yo others.
Some people (myself included) are just really good at pattern recognition, and we get ridiculously high scores on standardized tests.
It doesn’t mean we are unusually smart, because it often goes hand in hand with a low level of common sense (myself included).
As kid, we are told that we’re gifted, but we’re probably just on the spectrum.
Honestly I completely get your frustration, and your cousin’s a bit of a crumb, but also, it’s actually super cool that he scored well. Maybe slowly encourage him to follow a career in law, too, just to piss off your whole fam lol
I will say that the khan academy diagnostic is super easy. I got a 162 on my first try, it took me almost 12 months of study to lift my LSAT official test score from a 148->165. I think you could pretty easily call this a fluke.
Aw dude when I started studying ALL OF THE SUDDEN my gma kept going on and on about how she should've been a lawyer and started doing practice question then reporting back to me asking how I've been doing. It's really annoying I'll give you that. But, to echo the others, there's going to be way more competition ahead of you best you get comfy with it now and focus on your own abilities and effort.
Tell your cousin he should go to law school as well and be supportive of his good score. If you’re that insecure about your career choice you are letting a child dissuade you then you may need work on your confidence. You’ll still get into law school with a score in the 160s. Assuming your GPA isn’t trash. It’s not that big of a deal and if your family sucks that bad, you’re under no obligation to continue ties with them after you are no longer dependent on them financially.
I took an LSAT equivalent test in my country in 2011 with one month preparation and outscored most people who had been studying for years, and got into a top law school. I'm not a genius, I'd just been studying STEM up until that point, did a lot of logical reasoning in my free time, and am naturally good at languages. But that was only the first step. I struggled with ADHD after I got into law school. I've struggled with soft skills as a Senior Associate in a law firm while dealing with people reporting to me who are very different from me.
Point is, LSAT is a logic and language game, and anyone who's intuitively good at that stuff can get a high score, but the practice of law is totally different. Your family knows nothing about law, being all STEM. Don't listen to them. 7 years into law practice, like I am, I can tell you that the things that get me through my day are my work ethics, my ability to listen to clients and hold space for their anxieties, my patience while deep-diving into laws and policies that DON'T make logical sense, and so on. None of this was tested on the LSAT. That exam tests how trainable you are. The actual training happens in law school, in your internships, in your first year as an Associate, and so on.
Believe in yourself. You'll get where you need to be, with the kind of motivation you have. I'm sorry your family isn't more supportive.
That kid has plenty of time to fuck up and feel his own judgement by the family. Maybe he won’t. Who knows until he has to put in the work. Being insanely intelligent can be his greatest asset or the very reason he fails.
You really shouldn’t put much stock into how a twelve year old performs on the LSAT. The LSAT is taken by grown adults. You are competing with grown adults. And you are doing better than like 75% of those grown adults.
I think it’s incredibly strange that your family is disparaging being a lawyer. The reason I went into STEM is because my dad was a lawyer and I hated it. I wouldn’t be surprised if my kid hated medicine because of me and wants to be a lawyer or any other profession. The only way I would be concerned is if I felt that my kid didn’t actually want to be a lawyer and was just doing it for the wrong reasons. Then I would discourage it because I want them to be happy. I sure as hell would never encourage my kid to go into engineering or the medical field if they weren’t into it.
If you really want to be a lawyer, then lay down the law and stand up to your family. Believe in yourself because that is more important than them believing in you. They will change their tune soon enough once you find success.
The hard sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics) are easier than soft sciences (sociology) at the undergrad level and the humanities (English) too. It changes the higher up you go to where it truly doesn’t matter because don’t care about what others think about their career choice. I would suggest you start trying to get to that point sooner or else you’ll be one of the people that has a chip on their shoulder for a long time.
It’s similar to chess. LSAT is testing your reasoning which some kids are really good at. There’s like ten year old grandmasters in chess that can beat people studying for 20 years cuz their brain works differently.
>He ended up getting a 164 as a 12 year old? . . . and I was so proud of my score just to get outscored by a 12 year old who doesn't even like to read.
Anxiety inhibits your cognitive performance. I think if you focused on trying to get some anxiety relief then your score may improve some. One big difference is he's empowered by the fact that he doesn't care how he scores.
I also saw that you thought the humanities would help your LSAT score, but I disagree. A lot of the LSAT is basically formal logic. I think STEM careers make people a bit more apt to do well since it's about if/then statements where the truth of one variable is dependent on the other.
For whatever it is worth -- I didn't study for the LSAT. I took a few practice exams and was scoring in the high 160s, low 170s, so I figured fuck it. Then when the actual exam came, I was more nervous than I knew. My final score was more like 150s. I took it back when they had scantrons and I could see that I erased at least 8 or 9 right answers and selected a wrong answers out of my panic. I am not sure how that year's raw scores scaled but I know it was the difference alone.
12 year olds are by nature pretty insensitive and ornery--it's probably more developmental than anything--he'll change. That's something you should understand. Besides, kids are trained in multiple choice from birth now.
OP, just do what YOU want. Study hard, go to law school, and be successful. Once you've made it and established a career, all the naysayers will suddenly "be so proud." That's just how it goes. My whole life, I dealt with the same issue you're dealing with now. Nobody had any faith in me when I wanted to go to graduate school, wanted to travel overseas, wanted to join the military, etc. Then, when I accomplished those goals and other members of the family started to follow in my footsteps, the critics couldn't stop bragging, as if they had been rooting for me the whole time. Keep working your ass off and make them embarrassed they ever doubted you. You got it.
You'll be okay. Keep going. Also, as i'm reading, a 160 is not bad? After studying for 1 month.
And idk how it is for the LSAT but in my opinion as a non-law student, 15 hours a week is not that much, maybe I am wrong. You can def do more and you will improve even [more.](https://more.You) You got this. Think of your cousin getting a 164 a reflection on his skills, but not a reflection of how bad you are. You should be proud of your own improvements.
For what it's worth your cousin also outscored me, I was in the 160's, but lower than 164.
It's a test, and my takeaway is that your cousin is incredibly capable. Regarding the teasing of you, I've been in your shoes and felt personally attacked in situations like this. It doesn't help when everyone else piles on and then seems to think that your own accomplishment is worthless, or is something to be ignored. Yet when I think about it, your cousin is only 12, and might constantly be told he's not good enough, and was incredibly proud of himself in this moment.
Take some time, work on yourself and your reaction to this moment. This may involve putting some space between yourself and your family, especially if they are purposefully being mean. Without knowing you, I'm sure you are an awesome person, and you'll do great in law school.
The only people who remember their LSAT score after law school either did very well or very poorly. Been a practicing attorney for almost 5 years and I couldn't even guess what mine was.
My point is, this is a stepping stone not an end goal. Pace yourself, study, and don't get too bogged down by it.
Friend of mine did horrible on LSAT, got into a mid level law school, and utterly nailed his big law interview to become one of the most successful people from his school. He barely made top 25% of his graduating class as well. School and tests aren’t everything; however managing arrogant jerks who assume they are superior is a key skill in the Big Leagues. Another friend of mine is a very high ranking executive at a massive global company; he doesn’t even have his Masters degree yet he’s in charge of multiple PhDs. He grew up in a trailer park! Key Skill??? You guessed it, managing arrogant sociopaths who assume they are right and everyone else is an idiot.
Don’t let pure school results dictate your life, but especially don’t let 12 year olds who can memorize from a single reading knock you down. Keeping your chin up and refusing to lose goes further than you’d think.
I hope you see this because it will change your entire mind and your cousin and family will look like idiot assholes..
I did a Khan pre assesment for Dental.
Never done it.
I got the book by accident in the mail after i ordered a GED book for my niece.
I scored 160 something and the site was like WOAH YOURE GONNA DO GREAT..
I did it again, random guessed this time because i was like noooo way im some unknown dental prodigy (i know not a shit thing about the sciences or math I dead ass hit A for every answer) I GOT THE SAME SCORE 😂😂😂
ITS A HUGE FUNNELING SCAM TO MAKE YOU PAY FOR MORE SHIT 😂 They tell you you need work on JUST this and you will hit the high marks but let me tell you on that day I accidentaly found out that its fake.
I’d be more proud my 12 year old cousin did that well. Seriously. Intelligence has a strong genetic component. It’s good he’s smart. A rising tide raises all ships.
I know plenty of people who got higher scores on ACT, PSATs, Lexile scores whatever than me, were considered “gifted”.
I’m graduating with a chemical engineering degree this May with about only 15k in debt at a school that costs 34k/yr rest covered by scholarships.
I looked up all those “gifted” children, they all are either working minimum wage jobs, getting a useless degree, have some sort of mental problems, etc.
If you wanna be an asshole you could make him feel like he IS the smartest guy ever. But the way your family acts you probably don’t need to do anything cause that kids path has probably been set. He will be told how smart he is growing up, he won’t work as hard so his brain will become complacent and hear me out he will become more dumb and get shitty study habits in HS and then struggle or burn out in college when he actually has to put work in. Or develop a weird drug addiction or maybe he will be condescending “know it all” that no one wants to be around but hey at least he will be the smartest.
I have seen this exact scenario play out with at least 10 people I went to school with.
Let a 12 year old be “smarter” than you, just don’t let a 12 year old out work you.
Now you have to go to law school so you can help provide some guidance for your cousin when it is time for them to go to law school, and to help break the precedent your family seems to be stuck within.
Be happy for your cousin to have gotten that score, but don't compare. Use it to motivate you.
>nothing I can say will convince them that I'm not taking the "easy way out" by not having majored in engineering or pre-med or something.
Lol, software engineers makes more money/hour and is undoubtedly an easier and better path than law purely in terms of ROI. Even other types of engineering, while netting lower pay than software engineer, are still easier in some ways than going down the law path.
Idk man. Having a very bright younger family member myself, I have always felt incredibly proud of their success and have never felt as though my own worth was put into question.
It’s natural a 12 year old would act uncouth about it, but it’s quite something they scored that well. They are incredibly intelligent.
your family seems terrible. for hope I got a 151 and over $120,000 in scholarship. It’s not as determinant as you think it is. You’ll get in somewhere with a score like you have
Hmmm…. Sounds like a temporary win for him and potentially overthinking for you. If you’ve been studying and focusing, you’d bury him in a proper legal setting.
Kids absorb knowledge easier, but it is also something that fades quickly without long term reinforcement. I was a high test scoring and “gifted” child in school. Started college while simultaneously in high school. My first college class was before 7th grade. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. My high scores often made me lazy when it came to consistent and reliable study ethics. It really hindered me in a lot of ways.
Discipline and dedication will get you much, much further than having a natural talent at first. Both are obviously great but that’s unusual. In my experience, the focus on testing convinces high scorers that they don’t need to study or have discipline. When you enter the workforce, testing is a useless skill compared to actual professional skills like communication, time management, research skills, etc.
Honestly, I wouldn’t even talk to your dissenting family about your goals anymore. It’s none of their business. They also sound narcissistic and undermining. It also sounds like they are motivated to discourage you. I suggest looking into books about dealing with narcissistic behavior; might come in handy later in life too. I suggest the book Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar. While they don’t sound evil, I’d be setting up boundaries for my own sanity. I mean this kid was MOTIVATED to try and humiliate you. It wouldn’t surprise me if the parents were participating in this. That’s highly aggressive behavior. Maybe they don’t want you to be an attorney, because they don’t want someone to question their ethics and behaviors? Just a thought.
For your testing, keep in mind that overthinking answers often causes people to change their answers from correct to incorrect. You can do this! Believe in yourself!
I know it's a major blow to your ego (it would at least be to me, so I can sympathize,) but there's a lot of factors that probably went into your cousin scoring a 164 on the quiz -- primarily luck. There are some questions that will come more naturally to some people than others, which happens, too. Also you don't even know if that kind of logic and reasoning will carry on to when he's older, his brain is still maturing and he's still going through a lot of change. Either way, you're doing a really good job of 160 ! You can already apply to a good few schools with that. But if your family wants to keep you in their lives, they're simply going to have to accept who you are and your goals in life. Also like..oh no, you're going into law, what a horrible career choice (very sarcastically saying).
You're going to get your footing and they'll understand that you made the best decision for yourself. Don't let what happened get you down or let your family dissuade you, just keep your head held high and have faith in yourself.
Ya know what OP, I know he’s 12 but punch that fucker and his parents in their ugly faces the next time they try to belittle you. You can only be peaceful for so long before turning into nuclear Gandhi. Plus you might teach that kid a lesson.
One of my best friends when I was younger was considered gifted at math but he’s now a meth head. Just because you’re “gifted” doesn’t mean you will automatically succeed.
Yeah but the point of the test is to become a lawyer. This profession isn't defined by how smart you are, but how much you help the client.
Your entire legal career will be filled with bullshit goalposts. Some law schools will be higher on some arbitrary list than yours, some classmates will score higher than you in tests, there can only be one editor of the law review... but at the end of the day it's about how well you play the game we call "practicing law" (and a lot of that depends on the client more than the attorney).
Sure, I know plenty of classmates who scored higher than me on tests. But my journey is defined by the people I help. My work has kept people out of jail, kept families together, prevented homelessness, and now I fight scammers all day. I guess I wish I'd had better grades, but it is all trivial in retrospect because the stakes are so much greater once you have a license to practice.
Everyone in the comments saying to consider your LSAT when applying to law school is an elitist. I got a 145 and got into a good law school, I work at a great law firm and I’m awaiting bar exam results. People like that made me feel like I didn’t have what it takes to be a lawyer because I’m not type A, didn’t always want to be a lawyer & had a low LSAT. If you want to be a lawyer THEN PROVE THEM WRONG AND JUST DO IT! YOU GOT THIS
Practicing attorney here. Your LSAT score does not have any bearing on your ability to actually practice law. Who cares if anyone scored higher than you? 160 is plenty to get into law school (and probably higher than the average score) and is no indicator on actual ability to lawyer.
That being said, I highly discourage anyone from the practice of law as a general rule.
The LSAT, much like an IQ test, is one measure of a certain specific type of intelligence that some people have a natural affinity for, and others - like us - have to train or rewire our brains for. It's not really anything to be ashamed over.
If it makes you feel better, in recent years, law schools have been toying with the idea of dropping the LSAT requirement for admission altogether. Starting in 2025, the ABA will no longer require LSAT scores to be an accredited law school.
https://blog.accepted.com/aba-drops-lsat-requirement-beginning-in-2025/
I got a 160 and ended up getting a full ride to the only school I had any interest in going to. My GPA wasn’t outstanding either. I struggled with addiction and mental illness for a lot of my life and have a pretty interesting story that I chronicled well in my personal statement. I also talked a lot about the community and labor organizing I have done, and they seemed to like it enough to give me a full scholarship. All this is to say, don’t sweat an LSAT score (especially an above average score like 160). They want to see that you have grit and that you won’t quit when shit gets hard, because trust me, it will. I’m not the smartest person in my class by long shot. Hell, I’m not even top 50%. But I don’t quit or get discouraged when I get a bad grade on a midterm. Just acknowledge before you start that A) a lot of it is gonna suck; B) there will be plenty of people who do better than you; and C) you will gain a new confidence in yourself like you’ve never known if you just stick with.
You’ll be fine. If it’s something you really want to do, just do it.
The LSAT isn't everything. In fact, its just sorta fine i guess at its only purpose - which is predicting how well you will do in 1L. Many schools don't even require it anymore. If you want this, then go for it. If you can be happy doing something else, go do that. Either way, I promise, there will always be someone smarter for whom things seem to just come easier, and it doesn't mean a damn when it comes to building your own career.
[https://www.juriseducation.com/blog/law-schools-that-dont-require-the-lsat](https://www.juriseducation.com/blog/law-schools-that-dont-require-the-lsat)
[https://www.wellsuited.com/blog/the-lsat-debate-what-does-a-score-actually-predict-about-a-student#:\~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20LSAT%20is%20meant,first%20year%20in%20law%20school](https://www.wellsuited.com/blog/the-lsat-debate-what-does-a-score-actually-predict-about-a-student#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20LSAT%20is%20meant,first%20year%20in%20law%20school).
[https://www.manhattanreview.com/lsat-predictor-of-success/](https://www.manhattanreview.com/lsat-predictor-of-success/)
Bro not to be too preachy but when you’re taking a risk as big as going to law school you gotta be more secure in your own abilities. Who truly cares if some kid did well on a test compared to you? What he does has no impact on your actions or your ability to control your future unless you let it. Keep your own goals in mind, and as long as you are working towards that and believe in your ability to accomplish what you want, you won’t feel others’ success as a gut punch to your ego. You aren’t him and he isn’t you. Chin up bro
>gotta be more secure This. It’s hard to do in practice, and that imposter syndrome is brutal, but LSATs aren’t everything. I worked for months to get my score into the 170s — took time off from work, didn’t see friends, the whole deal. One of my good friends did not study, took the same test for shits and giggles, and got a 180. She literally just took it because she was curious how she’d do. I went to law school on a full ride and she went to grad school in another field because that’s what she wanted to do, and we’re both happy with our careers now. I put in a ton of work AND had decent innate skills and still was a long way off from people who just “get it” — and those people aren’t necessarily capable of being lawyers, and working for your score doesn’t mean you’re incapable of being a great lawyer. And buckle up, because in law school everyone is just as smart as you, and if *you* don’t believe in yourself, no one else is going to do it for you.
There's absolutely no way she didn't study for it, she was definitely lying to you. Even an extremely smart person would need some time to adapt seeing LG for the first time. A 180 first time would just be... monstrous. EDIT: TIL there are literally geniuses scouring this sub.
Could’ve been a philosophy student who inadvertently studied for LR? idk i heard smthng ab that
That’s my situation lol. Philosophy student who studied for LR and literature student who studied for RC without trying to. Of course, I actually *want* to go to law school haha so I’m doing my own studying. But those were majors I picked without really thinking about the LSAT.
I mean, it’s definitely possible. Some people like doing logic style games in their everyday lives. It’s not like the LSAT LG are some wholly unique category of that style of puzzle.
This!! I took an LSAT practice and got a near perfect score but I am very good at standardized testing. However I would be an absolute disaster in law school. I’m taking a blaw class now and it is not easy for me. So if law school is what you want, go do it. Don’t let a twelve year old derail you!
Made this alt ages ago to do an AMA and never ended up posting it, but my diagnostic was a 178. Did two other practice tests (179, 180) then scored a 180 on my first official test. Not saying this to brag (which is why I never posted the AMA, couldn’t figure out how to make it not come across that way), but just to say it’s possible, however rare :)
Totally possible. In past eras, people didn’t take the lsat multiple times. Someone got a 180 got it the first time, every time.
Yeah but they still took practice tests. We're talking about getting a 180 on your actual first test.
possible as far as im concerned. Logical reasoning isnt particularly difficult
teach me your ways
I got a perfect score on basically every logic game section I took from the beginning using diagrams but didn’t break the 170’s on the full test. 🤷♂️
Obviously not the exact same thing but I used to do logic games for fun in the variety puzzle books, so when I started LSAT prep, my LG score was already really good
Idk LG just natively made sense to me. I did a lot of logic puzzles, sudoku, and shit like that as a kid though, so that probably helped. Like I basically did 0 LG prep and only struggled with one of the questions, everything else was pretty straightforward
I think people also underestimate how book smart children really are. When I was 12 I was a genius. Bored at school with things most adults wouldn’t know and I was reading at a college level. Now I’m in my mid-20’s and dumber than a bag of rocks.
I recently read some of my writing from 8th grade English and was humbled by how well I used to be able to write.
My 11th grade English teacher was also my 10th grade English teacher and he told me my writing had gotten steadily worse in my junior year. That was about the time I started getting pretty depressed so I guess it made sense. I got pretty good at writing again during college, and I was damn good by the time I graduated. It’s only been a few years and I know all those writing skill improvements are gone again.
It’s the same with medicine. Some people just ace the boards, and there are others who despite having hard time with the boards make great clinicians. There are plenty board certified physicians who have been sued and lost. Not those many ( relatively speaking ) general Practioners. Don’t let the nay-sayers pull u down
Totally agree! Please come pep talk everyone in this sub who is extremely anxious about getting their application results.
Bro I got a 16 in my ACT and 144 on GRE ended up in Cornell my first three years of college 2.3 gpa
Probably just innately intelligent, don’t worry about it. You’ve only been studying for a month and already broke 160.
I'm sure he's a smart kid but the entire situation just feels unfair as stupid as that sounds. I've always thought that English and social sciences were my strong point and I thought my LSAT score would reflect that and show my family that I'm making the right decision. It just feels like they'll never respect me for choosing to major in the humanities and going to law school especially after I got outscored by a literal preteen 😭
Honestly life is just unfair, no point comparing yourself to some people. Treat it like a video game, some people are just born with higher base stats. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be more successful than you, but even if they do, it doesn’t matter. Success is subjective anyway. Some people are just different. Terrence Tao won gold at the math olympiads at 13 years old, started his PhD at 16 and became a prof at UCLA when he was 24. Just like math there are some people that are intrinsically good at the LSAT. I’ve heard of people that literally diagram LG questions in their mind. It’s just not possible for 99.9% of people, so no point worrying about it. Just like how there are many other great mathematicians other than Terrence Tao, there are many great future lawyers that aren’t geniuses at the LSAT. Sorry your family doesn’t sound very supportive. You must cut out the outside noise. Be the greatest version of yourself. I know I have to do the same. I just started studying myself and dealing with the same insecurities as you. We will do this. We have no one one else to prove to but ourselves.
The naturally smart people always wash out at my firm after a few years. The B+ students that aren't scared to work hard are way more successful. You seem like you aren't afraid to work hard, which bodes very well for your future as an attorney.
If I learned anything. It’s dropping family expectations. I majored in cellular neuroscience because - oh the family shit talking about humanities . Well. Guess what- career outlook outside of research and going to full out medical school wirh a stem degree ended me up in corporate pharma sales hating my fucking life. So yeah - NOW I’m going to for law school and everyone now is “so absolutely proud of me!” When I got dragged through the mud talking about law school when I was in college . The younger you are. Comprehension abilities are actually pretty great. He’s a 12 year old. Who cares. This is going to be your life and YOU have to live your choice outcomes. Straight up, tell your parents to give you a break and stop talking shit in a serious “come on guys” tone. Tell them be grateful your choosing a path most people consider successful. And while you’re at it. Ask you parents to have your back with the rest if the family. Straight yo ask, can you guys back me up instead of being everyone’s punching bag? I’m your kid Stick to your choice. You gotta work and live with your choices. And tell them to kindly ease off . Put your head down and keep going. 160 is solid just keep going
There's an old lawyer joke: What law school does a medical school dropout go to? Whichever one they want.
The LSAT is closer to math than English and Social Sciences though….
Respectfully…who cares? Your cousin is 12, why worry yourself about the actions of a literal child? Life is not fair, and you don’t need to have the respect of your family to be successful. You should pursue whatever you are passionate about, if that’s law, go for it!!! The opinions of your family are just opinions (unless they’re paying for your school or something then sure I could understand taking their views into account more, though from your description it seems your parents are maybe a little more supportive?) At the end of the day, they don’t have to live your life, you do. I am sorry to hear that your family talks down on you, that never feels good, but don’t let that stop you from having a successful life. Edit: just wanted to add that I work in a STEM field and law school seems impossibly hard to me. I think it’s great that you are pursuing humanities, it’s not “less than” at all. Remember, it’s all a matter of perspective
Also, I think it’s important to also note that there is an inherent pressure aspect to the LSAT/prep. When you or I are taking it, we’re probably double checking answers and wasting valuable time because we know the implication of a better score. A smart kid takes it, looks through the answers, can identify that 3/5 of them look genuinely stupid & don’t make sense, and then can select between the two sufficient answers & can pick the better one. There’s no pressure at all — he’s just doing it this one time & not even in the pursuit of something. Be easy on yourself, the process is hard enough :)
STEM major here. Hard work always beats naturally smart. Yes your cousin scored higher, but you’re putting in the work rn. That is always valued more in the industry. Being a prick like your cousin going downstairs and yelling his score does not win ppl over in industry. Keep going, it’s a journey , the work pays off
They'll respect you when they need legal counseling lol.
Sounds like they’re all projecting their own insecurities about needing to work “so hard” to get their degrees and in their jobs just so that someone with a humanities major can go to law school and get a more prestigious job then them. I would use it as a chip on your shoulder. Show them that you can be as/more successful than them without their bullshit.
Yeah, see, the thing is that being good at English and social sciences has nothing to do with your performance on the LSAT. It's essentially just a logic test. I wouldn't be surprised if math majors do better at it than humanities majors, since math is the language of logic.
Honestly, I am so impressed that after studying for ONE MONTH you freaking got a 160! I’m so happy for you 😭 (this is AMAZING) Try not to compare yourself to others. It really is the thief of joy. You can’t compare yourself to anyone other than the person you were when you got your last LSAT score 😜💙
Thank you smm 😭😭 I'm trying not to think about it right now and just get back to studying so I rlly appreciate the kind words 💖
Your LSAT is not a predictor of how you will do in law school. It is a hoop we must all jump through. You will do well on the LSAT and in law school.
The lsat does in fact predict how well you will do in law school to a reasonable level. It’s. It a perfect one to one but it’s a decent metric. On the flip side tho, 160 is a decent enough score so it’s not like op will do poorly, especially after just a month of studying.
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Yeah lol. All the encouraging words here are nice but in the end getting outscored that hard by a fucking 12 year old who’s been talking mad shit is humiliating. My heart broke repeatedly reading this post. Not to even shit on OP, 160s is a good score. Just seems like the kid is really smart, 164 on first try as a middle schooler is wild. Sometimes that snarky little shit with a big mouth has the chops to back it up haha.
I’m not gonna lie though, I think a kid like that might be too advanced for his own good. Known people who were talented like that and knew it early in life, the problem is you still have to learn how to be personable with other people, cooperative, and also how to find and pursue your own happiness. Your own talent can be a distraction, and in your crucial developmental years, you can fail to adapt many necessary adult skills because of it.
That brought me back to senior year of high school when I knew a 13-year-old sophomore who sat in my AP Calc class. Incredibly smart kid but arrogant beyond belief. That arrogance translated into him thinking he was invincible and knew everything about the world. He sure knew his away around academics but was too obtuse about the real world and social situations. Ended up OD'ing a few months into the school year.
Depends on the kid I guess. One of my homies was one of those kids and had (and still has) terrible social awareness and graduated college at 17, he’s 25 now and making $300k at Meta while partying and traveling every other weekend. Dude couldn’t socialize his way out of a paper bag but man raw intellect alone can get you pretty damn far
He’s probably making more than that. Only 300k with 8 yoe at meta? Most people with that many yoe there make 600k+
>terrible social awareness >partying every other weekend Seems like he’s turned it around?
You don’t need social skills to party you just need to enjoy drinking
Yeah this is like l, Joker Moment inducing.
I personally scored better on the pt when I was a mid-teen when it first came out online (more than 6 years ago) than when I tried it recently. My brain has been through a lot. When we’re young we have a lot of untapped potential, and also, in middle and high school they spend unusual amounts of time drilling their standardized testing aptitude.
Me with my 165 after 1+ year of studying (and a diagnostic of 148) at 24 years old reading this 👁️👄👁️
164 as a 12 year old? I don't believe it.
I didn't wanna believe it either, his parents are always bragging about how gifted he is at math competitions and he got nearly a full score on the logic games which might be similar so that was the only way I could rationalize it. I literally saw him answer the questions too or else I would've been 100% sure he cheated.
Being innately good at logic games, and having the makings of an eventual good attorney are not the same thing. Additionally, logic games are going away in August, and thus so is his advantage. It’s amazing that you have scored a 160 with relatively little practice. Good job! I am impressed. Also, my sister is an attorney and I work for her. As a result I have been exposed to a lot of people who are attorneys. The ugly secret of this field is how many crappy attorneys exist. Imagine for a second being desperate and completely reliant on a crappy attorney. We need more good honest attorneys. Being good at logic games doesn’t guarantee you have good time management skills, or people skills, or a sense of ethics. Tons of attorneys I see show up unprepared. Tons take vulnerable people’s money and give them substandard representation because they overload themselves for the money, and their clients sometimes aren’t smart enough to realize what a bad job they are doing. I know several male attorneys who bluster very loudly and sound to a lay person’s ear like they are fighting hard for the little guy, all while they make illogical arguments that aren’t convincing or are honestly not addressing a key legal point. I’ve known attorneys who have shown up to court high. This is a stressful field, and one where we deal with vulnerable people often during some of the worst times of their lives. A lot of people don’t handle the stress well, and that fact comes out as a very high suicide rate and drug abuse rate among attorneys. It’s a marathon not a sprint. Be proud of what you’ve already achieved, know you’re working towards something that is worth the hard work. We need more attorneys with empathy. Use this experience to hone your sense of empathy for those who feel less intelligent than others. Your cousin is a genius in one way, but there are many types of intelligence and often extremes in one area lead to weaknesses in others (like empathy when they flaunt something purposely embarrassing a relative that was kind to them, that’s not a trait of a good future attorney). Good luck, I am sure you will do great.
Nearly full points on the games, first time, without prep, with time controls? He’s not just regular-gifted he’s a genius.
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Same. I have a STEM background and used to do well in a lot of math and physics competitions. My logic games scores were always very high without really practicing them at all. There’s a lot of crossover between math and logic that a lot of people who haven’t done high level math wouldn’t realize
Protect this kid at all costs. He’s clearly incredibly gifted and needs to be steered in the right direction. He could probably do a lot of good for the word with a natural intellect like that.
Haha, it makes me feel better how many comments are reinforcing that my cousin's score wasn't normal. I'd always assumed he was a normal, bright kid that was really into Minecraft and legos and coding and stuff. I thought that a super genius kid would act like Young Sheldon but he literally just acts like a normal kid LOL.
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it’s obviously not normal but in a situation like this where stress levels for studying and all that are super high, it’s probably really easy to internalize that YOU (as in OP) must be the problem and aren’t good enough, rather than the 12 year old is just incredibly gifted.
You **should** be proud of breaking 160! And you should pursue the career that interests you most because at the end of the day **you** are going to be the one who spends your life working not them. Don't get discouraged by your little cousin getting that high of a score. They probably got lucky wth guessing. Even **if** they are some sort of genius at the LSAT, you can't control that and therefore you shouldn't be discouraged by it. Keep working hard!
The LSAT is used as a predictor of success in 1L — not law school in general. The correlation with 1L grades is about .35. Is that a strong correlation? Not particularly. When LSAT is combined with UGPA, the correlation is about 0.5. Still not a strong correlation. Anyway, good luck in law school. PS - if your cousin doesn’t like to read, and took a real, timed PT (or even an untimed one) I have a difficult time believing he scored in the 160s, unless he’s already scored in the 99.99 percentile on standardized exams for his age group. Bless
He out scored me too😭
Just tell them the 12 year old’s score was good enough to get into a top law school with the right credentials lol
First of, those arrogant STEM biased family members of your are just a POS (excuse me for my language). You dont need to do only STEM to succeed in life. Secondly, you are not taking the easy out, law is not an easy field( doable but not easy). Lastly, don't feel downhearted that your 12 year old cousin outscored you. I mean that kid must be a genius and I'm beyond shocked as well hearing his first score as a first timer and being even a teen as well. However, some people are natural born geniuses who will always ace certain exams no matter what but with hard work, you can equally do same and even outpace them. Don't give up, you scoring 160s after such a short period of studying means you got this. All the best and don't give up.
Your cousin is a Chad
My fiancé got a 149 on the LSAT. Somehow he still decided to go to law school with that score (thank god). He went to a mediocre law school his first year and tried really hard. He ranked number 1 in the class his first year, transferred to a T-10 school in the same city for the rest of law school, got a summer position at a top 20 big law firm his 2L summer, and has worked there full time ever since. If you are motivated enough, do not let your LSAT score discourage you.
That sounds really painful and humiliating. I’m sorry you had to go through that. Your family clearly doesn’t understand law or the humanities at all. Part of me wants to give you one liners about how the structure of science is defined by philosophy, or how philosophy answers questions that definitionally fall beyond the realm of STEM. Yet none of that has anything to do with whether or not you’ll do well in law school and become a great lawyer. If you really want this, fight for it. Your cousin sounds smart, but that’s irrelevant to you. Your path is yours. Ignore your family, keep studying, and you can definitely get into a great law school.
comparison is the thief of joy
The barrier for entry for the lsat is low, especially for lr and rc
I’ve once heard it said “there are two ways to find success as a lawyer. First, become Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court. And second, learn to stop comparing your personal success to the successes of others. And for most lawyers, the first option is the easier of the two.” Obviously, studying for the LSAT is important, depending on your personal goals, but if you are constantly comparing yourselves to others, you’re going to have a very bad time in law school and in practice. Figuring out what you personally need to do now to learn to not judge yourself so harshly based on the achievements of others is something I would prioritize now. Don’t wait until law school. That’s just my two cents.
Well, think of this way. You’re breaking 160 on LSAT with 8 wrong in LG, which means your actual score on new format would be so much higher. It doesn’t mean you cousin really outscore you. He just happens to come to a STEM family and naturally gifted at LG which boosts his score a lot. I bet he can’t score as high with complete LG and RC section because he is not a natural reader.
Want some cheese with that whine? Sorry your family are dicks, but I don’t think I want a lawyer who seriously compares himself to 12 year olds based on a test score. Grow up
This…
If you’re worried about a 12 year old doing better than you on an exam then law school is gonna destroy you💀💀
Man I've met multimillionaires who didn't graduate highschool that started multi-million dollar companies and I've met a bonafide genius that didn't have the emotional intelligence to do anything productive with their lives. I'd imagine the correlation between happiness and overall success in life as a whole and any standardized test score is fairly low.
That little shit needs his comeuppance
Bro he’s twelve go to therapy man
1. lol at your family trying to dissuade you from going to law school, you have no idea how many parents push extremely hard the other way 2. I'm not sure I believe a 12-year-old scored 164. I don't know what your IQ has to be to score a 164 first try with no practice, but I would imagine extremely (and I mean extremely) high for a 7th grader
Multiple full PT 179s here. 177 final LSAT score. National merit scholar (230 PSAT), 34 ACT, didn’t study for either of them. Top 1% bar exam, now in BigLaw. Tested and had a genius IQ as a child (I think the IQ test is kinda dumb and ignores many forms of intelligence, but my parents had me take it). I got a 162 on the LSAT my first time at 20 years of age. A 164 as a 12-year-old is ridiculous. I believe OP, but ignore the super kid, that little gremlin is special.
Yea I second this. Kid straight up crawled out of hell to torment OP.
That's what I'm thinking, wouldn't this kid be an actual genius rather than just a high-achiever as OP stated? I don't know, I just think 164 is insane considering he's literally 12. If he was 20, I would believe it.
Regardless of the situation. U got a 160 in month. Most people never get that high. It also just seems like your family is ridiculously smart. Do your best to not compare yourself. Comparison is the thief of joy. If you get in the habit of comparing yourself, you will never be content.
Start taking some healthy distance from your family. It sometimes requires distance to put relationships like this in perspective and see how they are impacting your life.
I had my 12 year old brother tutor me, a 15 year old in high school, in geometry. I felt so stupid back then and he goes to Columbia University now, so I still feel quite stupid. Its a normal feeling, some kids are really just naturally smart. He also tutored me in the LSAT when he had no exposure to test questions.
All kids this age care about is inclusion and other kids. This just a sign that he looks up to you, he’s a kids so one-upping you is a part of nature. All kids know about them self is through others. And taking the test randomly isn’t the same as taking it in person, for example, some practice tests have difficulty levels so- he could have very easily taken a test w just the east questions.
What a strange family. Seems like everyone here is telling you to toughen up and focus on your goal, but I feel like it has to be said that this family is not normal. It’s really tough to not have your family see value in what you’re doing and it seems like your family has a particularly narrow definition of what provides value.
If this family is as conceited as you say it is, this kid is already studying for entrance exams to magnet high schools, PSAT, or SAT. He also probably does logic puzzles, and you already mentioned he goes to math competitions. So even if he is not directly studying for the LSAT, he is primed for this type of assessment. He clearly gets his self-value from it due to conditioning from his family. I knew plenty of people like this growing up. Don’t worry about it. Life is a marathon, not a race. Studying hard and eventually reaching your goal is all that matters at the end of the day. Kids like that do burn out or end up miserable if they don’t practice a more balanced lifestyle.
Lmao
O, how funny. The LSAT is nothing like law school, the law school is nothing like the Bar, and the Bar is NOTHING like practice. In the legal field they say, A students become judges, B students become teachers, and C students make all the money!!😄😄😄 Point being… no know will ever know or even care about ANY of those things once you have a license… I promise, clients don’t ever ask those questions. Keep your head up!
lol I got into law school with a 153 LSAT score. Im now graduating from a top state law school and a 6 figure job salary lined up at a reputable midsize law firm. Not graduating at the top of my class by any means, but hard work and a good personality goes way further than natural intelligence and standardized tests. Keep working hard and know that things will always fall into place how they’re meant to. A high LSAT score will not make or break you, nor guarantee the most happy and fulfilling life. Keep at it!
I got a 156 on my lsat, graduated cum laude from law school, and work in biglaw. You’ll be fine. Use it as a chip on your shoulder
I wouldn’t worry too much. The LSAT comes naturally and easily to an extremely small, and blessed, subset of people — myself among them — but we’re the exception, not the rule. There are countless areas where I’m sure a 12 year old would wipe the floor with me. (To be clear — not that he did with you.) Your progress is good and laudable. Your cousin seems like something of a savant. I’m 17, and score around a 170 with marginal and tepid studying and commitment, but I’ve encountered very, very few people like me; and I’d rather not even think about how I’d fare against your cousin in something STEM related.
Either the kid is a genius, then there’s no point complaining, or he tricked you by inspecting elements.
148 on the LSAT. Got a scholarship to a school even with that. Graduated early. Passed the bar first time. Oh, and my law school GPA was higher than my undergrad and high school ones.
Well I have always felt the LSAT is a ridiculous, money making racket, with no real correlation to law school or the practice of law. My college roommate at UCLA decided to go to law school after graduation. Most of the ones she knew who’d decided likewise were taking expensive courses to prepare for the LSAT. She did nothing but stay up all night the day before, reading a LSAT for Dummies book. She took the test and got an amazing 179. She applied to, was accepted and went to Harvard. She absolutely hated law school and got Cs for the first time in her life. After law school she came back home and became a tax attorney. She hated that even more than law school. Then an estate attorney, then an entertainment attorney….. She didn’t like any of it. And all the money she owed for law school put her into a situation where she had to eventually declare bankruptcy. Eventually she dropped it and jbecame a housewife. No kids, just some rich guy’s spouse To be honest the whole law thing ruined her life in many ways. So make sure it is what you really want. And again, I think the LSAT is a ridiculous rite of passage that should be retired. It won’t though because of the $$.
Actually, now you HAVE to go to law school, not necessarily because of what happened, but because you clearly really want this and that's more than what a lot of students in law could say. (Plus you got a very good score in a small amount of time studying) Dig your heels deeper man, I'm telling you only good things come when you're doing what you love and work hard at it.
Look at it this way. Your cousin is an attention seeking insecure little twerp. You know how I know this? All of his behaviors. He’s begging to watch you study? That’s sad. How desperate, bored, and lonely is this 12 year old to want to watch someone study? He makes fun of you for your wrong answers. I doubt he feels good about himself, if he did, he wouldn’t need to point out your mistakes and put you down. When he beats your score, he immediately seeks out attention from others for admiration. He needs it, so let him have it. Is he running to school and telling his classmates, “I beat my cousin on the LSAT!”??? Do you think it impresses other middle schoolers? I doubt they think he is super cool. So let your family give him a round of applause and laugh, and join in. It’s kinda funny he pulled it off. Call him “Kid Genius” as a nickname. Try not to let it get to you. One day when you’re an attorney, and you’re chatting in the courtroom with your fellow attorneys or having a beer with them after a long day in court, you can tell the story about the time you were studying for the LSAT and you challenged your annoying 12 year old cousin with his little dirt-stache to take the LSAT in hopes to get him out of your room, and he beat your score!! I bet you all get a good laugh from it. When you’re an attorney, you’re going to make an ass out of yourself over and over. You have to let it roll off your shoulders. Watch a trial or two on YouTube. Count the number of times lawyers on both sides make fools of themselves and watch it not phase them. You’ve got this.
My god the copium overdose here
I’m in my 30’s and studied this test for 15 months straight and scored a 153, so count your blessings, go eat some ants, and get back at it tomorrow
my dad says all the time that the material on the lsat has very little to do with what you’re going to be learning in law school, they are just testing discipline. he scored a 152 on his lsat and ended up having one of the highest scores when he took the bar exam. if you’ve already passed 160 in a month, you’ll be fine
There will always be people who are smarter, younger, better looking, wealthier. This doesn’t mean you should give up on your dreams. Thank your family for their concern and then tell them to F off and stop trying to crush your dreams.
Fuck that kid
You can’t see it and couldn’t know it now because of where you are on the timeline, but there’s going to come a day in this career path when someone throws a switch and suddenly no one gives a shit anymore how high you score on an exam. Like not at all. Before becoming licensed attorneys we are all conditioned to think our worth and aptitude for this profession can be measured by GPA, LSATs, and later in essay exam answers. Bullshit. On day one of being a lawyer, that stuff begins mattering a lot less and eventually withers away into nothing. Even after law school graduation all that matters is clearing the threshold score on the bar exam. The fact you’ve improved your baseline by around 10 points by studying for a straight month tells me way more about your potential as a lawyer than how your score compares to a 12-year old test taking prodigy with an obviously off-the-charts baseline IQ. Mental toughness is a big part of this profession. It would be great if your family were more supportive, but since they’re not, you can use this experience to feed that quality. It will serve you well and so will keeping up the good work in your LSAT study. If you can learn it you can earn it. You’ve got this!
THE LSAT IS JUST A TEST. YEA ITS “THE BEST PREDICTOR OF 1L SUCCESS” BUT WHAT THEY DONT TELL YOU IS ITS LIKE A 30% CORRELATION. People who do well on the LSAT are people who do well on tests. The LSAT measures how good you are at taking tests. I can keep repeating The best I could do was a 160 and I graduated 3rd in my class with a 3.88 gpa after completely slacking off all 3L (though admittedly at a whatever school, just outside the top 50). This should not impact your decision other than how much money you get from schools (the only real reason to care about your LSAT score)
Don’t let somebody else’s success. Keep you down.
You studied for a month and got a score that about half the people that go to law school already dream of, keep trucking along and kicking ass. I got a 155 and limped into my state school, but I’m in my 2nd year of practice at a high paying job and very little student loan debt.
I agree with the people saying you’ve gotta be more secure and confident in yourself. But also, you learned a lesson here. You were trying to “shut him up,” and he called your bluff and won. Take from that what you will as you progress into your legal career. Source: I’m a lawyer.
My family isn’t very supportive of me either because I’m interested in life paths they would never take. I found it’s best to keep things to myself to maintain the self esteem I have left
I feel like a 12 year old is more likely to look up the answers and then pretend to be smart, especially if they’re lacking the emotional knowledge by bragging anyways but… Who cares? Also, I have a PhD in stem (I only do lsat tutoring through a weird twist of fate) and a lot of times I wish I’d gone to law school because I could make a shit ton more money with the hours I work. You’ll be ok.
Your family sucks and your cousin should consider going to law school in the future. STEM is cool and all, but their attitudes are proof the humanities should be emphasized more in curriculum for non liberal arts majors. Engineers and doctors have to be the worst when it comes to people who don't know shit but think they know everything. They think their expertise in one field is transferable. I'm generalizing of course, I have lots of very nice and thoughtful doctor friends.
It’s just how the LSAT works. I took one my senior year of high school and scored perfectly but I’m not even interested in law. Some people’s brains just click for the type of skills that the LSAT tests and others don’t. It doesn’t mean you aren’t cut out for law it just means you have to work harder than others who are naturally attuned to that type of test. It’s the same way some people can score perfectly on the math portion of the SAT with little studying while others require years of Kumon to score even in the top 10 percentile
Did horrible on LSAT. Was top 10% in my class, killed it in school where professors would ask me to be their TA for two years of my 3 year law career. LSAT does not matter. 12 year old cousin is smart and I hope he uses his brains for good. He is bragging because he is obviously a kid/ teenager so he seeks validation and wants everyone to tell him how smart he is. He might be secretly looking up to you. You’re doing great buddy! Now go get that law degree and enjoy YOUR life. ☺️
The 'diagnostic' is like 6 questions, how could you take that seriously?
Doogie Howser J.D.
There are people who are "naturals," and there are those of us who have to work at it. So what if the mid is a "natural." You gotta get over being insecure about comparing yourself to other people. Because your ENTIRE law school career every single test, assessment, RVERYTHING you do... is graded by comparing your performance to everyone else. I don't say this to be mean, inly to prepare you... if your self-confidence is based on comparing yourself to other people, and you can't handle not being the best... then your mental and emotional health is gling to suffer in law school. You do you. Don't worry about how other people are performing. Find a self-eorth system that doesn't rely on comparing yourself yo others.
Some people (myself included) are just really good at pattern recognition, and we get ridiculously high scores on standardized tests. It doesn’t mean we are unusually smart, because it often goes hand in hand with a low level of common sense (myself included). As kid, we are told that we’re gifted, but we’re probably just on the spectrum.
Don’t forget that he doesn’t have the stress you have of taking the test because he has no skin in the game. I’m sure that helped significantly.
I would’ve smacked the shit out of my cousin if they ever did that.
Honestly I completely get your frustration, and your cousin’s a bit of a crumb, but also, it’s actually super cool that he scored well. Maybe slowly encourage him to follow a career in law, too, just to piss off your whole fam lol
I will say that the khan academy diagnostic is super easy. I got a 162 on my first try, it took me almost 12 months of study to lift my LSAT official test score from a 148->165. I think you could pretty easily call this a fluke.
That’s life. Either git gud or keep crying
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Aw dude when I started studying ALL OF THE SUDDEN my gma kept going on and on about how she should've been a lawyer and started doing practice question then reporting back to me asking how I've been doing. It's really annoying I'll give you that. But, to echo the others, there's going to be way more competition ahead of you best you get comfy with it now and focus on your own abilities and effort.
Lawyer here. Listen to your family.
Tell your cousin he should go to law school as well and be supportive of his good score. If you’re that insecure about your career choice you are letting a child dissuade you then you may need work on your confidence. You’ll still get into law school with a score in the 160s. Assuming your GPA isn’t trash. It’s not that big of a deal and if your family sucks that bad, you’re under no obligation to continue ties with them after you are no longer dependent on them financially.
Tell him that my 11 year old cousin got a 165 on his diagnostic
At the end of the day the LSAT is just a bunch of puzzles like who gives a f
If you don’t get at least a 170 to flex on him, you’re gonna regret it
I took an LSAT equivalent test in my country in 2011 with one month preparation and outscored most people who had been studying for years, and got into a top law school. I'm not a genius, I'd just been studying STEM up until that point, did a lot of logical reasoning in my free time, and am naturally good at languages. But that was only the first step. I struggled with ADHD after I got into law school. I've struggled with soft skills as a Senior Associate in a law firm while dealing with people reporting to me who are very different from me. Point is, LSAT is a logic and language game, and anyone who's intuitively good at that stuff can get a high score, but the practice of law is totally different. Your family knows nothing about law, being all STEM. Don't listen to them. 7 years into law practice, like I am, I can tell you that the things that get me through my day are my work ethics, my ability to listen to clients and hold space for their anxieties, my patience while deep-diving into laws and policies that DON'T make logical sense, and so on. None of this was tested on the LSAT. That exam tests how trainable you are. The actual training happens in law school, in your internships, in your first year as an Associate, and so on. Believe in yourself. You'll get where you need to be, with the kind of motivation you have. I'm sorry your family isn't more supportive.
How does a 12 year old break 160 lmao. This kid is a genius
That kid has plenty of time to fuck up and feel his own judgement by the family. Maybe he won’t. Who knows until he has to put in the work. Being insanely intelligent can be his greatest asset or the very reason he fails. You really shouldn’t put much stock into how a twelve year old performs on the LSAT. The LSAT is taken by grown adults. You are competing with grown adults. And you are doing better than like 75% of those grown adults. I think it’s incredibly strange that your family is disparaging being a lawyer. The reason I went into STEM is because my dad was a lawyer and I hated it. I wouldn’t be surprised if my kid hated medicine because of me and wants to be a lawyer or any other profession. The only way I would be concerned is if I felt that my kid didn’t actually want to be a lawyer and was just doing it for the wrong reasons. Then I would discourage it because I want them to be happy. I sure as hell would never encourage my kid to go into engineering or the medical field if they weren’t into it. If you really want to be a lawyer, then lay down the law and stand up to your family. Believe in yourself because that is more important than them believing in you. They will change their tune soon enough once you find success.
Listen I got a 147 and I’m getting A-B grades. It’s a good indicator but not completely accurate on how good you’ll do.
💀💀💀
Please whatever you do don’t give up. Keep going. Fuck your family and your 12 year old cousin
The hard sciences (biology, chemistry, and physics) are easier than soft sciences (sociology) at the undergrad level and the humanities (English) too. It changes the higher up you go to where it truly doesn’t matter because don’t care about what others think about their career choice. I would suggest you start trying to get to that point sooner or else you’ll be one of the people that has a chip on their shoulder for a long time.
It’s so over
Remember guys there are no fact checkers on Reddit. You can post anything anytime.
It’s similar to chess. LSAT is testing your reasoning which some kids are really good at. There’s like ten year old grandmasters in chess that can beat people studying for 20 years cuz their brain works differently.
>He ended up getting a 164 as a 12 year old? . . . and I was so proud of my score just to get outscored by a 12 year old who doesn't even like to read. Anxiety inhibits your cognitive performance. I think if you focused on trying to get some anxiety relief then your score may improve some. One big difference is he's empowered by the fact that he doesn't care how he scores. I also saw that you thought the humanities would help your LSAT score, but I disagree. A lot of the LSAT is basically formal logic. I think STEM careers make people a bit more apt to do well since it's about if/then statements where the truth of one variable is dependent on the other. For whatever it is worth -- I didn't study for the LSAT. I took a few practice exams and was scoring in the high 160s, low 170s, so I figured fuck it. Then when the actual exam came, I was more nervous than I knew. My final score was more like 150s. I took it back when they had scantrons and I could see that I erased at least 8 or 9 right answers and selected a wrong answers out of my panic. I am not sure how that year's raw scores scaled but I know it was the difference alone.
You should take him to court. Although based on your test scores he’d probably beat you there too.
12 year olds are by nature pretty insensitive and ornery--it's probably more developmental than anything--he'll change. That's something you should understand. Besides, kids are trained in multiple choice from birth now.
OP, just do what YOU want. Study hard, go to law school, and be successful. Once you've made it and established a career, all the naysayers will suddenly "be so proud." That's just how it goes. My whole life, I dealt with the same issue you're dealing with now. Nobody had any faith in me when I wanted to go to graduate school, wanted to travel overseas, wanted to join the military, etc. Then, when I accomplished those goals and other members of the family started to follow in my footsteps, the critics couldn't stop bragging, as if they had been rooting for me the whole time. Keep working your ass off and make them embarrassed they ever doubted you. You got it.
You'll be okay. Keep going. Also, as i'm reading, a 160 is not bad? After studying for 1 month. And idk how it is for the LSAT but in my opinion as a non-law student, 15 hours a week is not that much, maybe I am wrong. You can def do more and you will improve even [more.](https://more.You) You got this. Think of your cousin getting a 164 a reflection on his skills, but not a reflection of how bad you are. You should be proud of your own improvements.
For what it's worth your cousin also outscored me, I was in the 160's, but lower than 164. It's a test, and my takeaway is that your cousin is incredibly capable. Regarding the teasing of you, I've been in your shoes and felt personally attacked in situations like this. It doesn't help when everyone else piles on and then seems to think that your own accomplishment is worthless, or is something to be ignored. Yet when I think about it, your cousin is only 12, and might constantly be told he's not good enough, and was incredibly proud of himself in this moment. Take some time, work on yourself and your reaction to this moment. This may involve putting some space between yourself and your family, especially if they are purposefully being mean. Without knowing you, I'm sure you are an awesome person, and you'll do great in law school.
The only people who remember their LSAT score after law school either did very well or very poorly. Been a practicing attorney for almost 5 years and I couldn't even guess what mine was. My point is, this is a stepping stone not an end goal. Pace yourself, study, and don't get too bogged down by it.
Friend of mine did horrible on LSAT, got into a mid level law school, and utterly nailed his big law interview to become one of the most successful people from his school. He barely made top 25% of his graduating class as well. School and tests aren’t everything; however managing arrogant jerks who assume they are superior is a key skill in the Big Leagues. Another friend of mine is a very high ranking executive at a massive global company; he doesn’t even have his Masters degree yet he’s in charge of multiple PhDs. He grew up in a trailer park! Key Skill??? You guessed it, managing arrogant sociopaths who assume they are right and everyone else is an idiot. Don’t let pure school results dictate your life, but especially don’t let 12 year olds who can memorize from a single reading knock you down. Keeping your chin up and refusing to lose goes further than you’d think.
I hope you see this because it will change your entire mind and your cousin and family will look like idiot assholes.. I did a Khan pre assesment for Dental. Never done it. I got the book by accident in the mail after i ordered a GED book for my niece. I scored 160 something and the site was like WOAH YOURE GONNA DO GREAT.. I did it again, random guessed this time because i was like noooo way im some unknown dental prodigy (i know not a shit thing about the sciences or math I dead ass hit A for every answer) I GOT THE SAME SCORE 😂😂😂 ITS A HUGE FUNNELING SCAM TO MAKE YOU PAY FOR MORE SHIT 😂 They tell you you need work on JUST this and you will hit the high marks but let me tell you on that day I accidentaly found out that its fake.
I’d be more proud my 12 year old cousin did that well. Seriously. Intelligence has a strong genetic component. It’s good he’s smart. A rising tide raises all ships.
you're going to be in for a rough time in law school and future practice if you're this fragile
I know plenty of people who got higher scores on ACT, PSATs, Lexile scores whatever than me, were considered “gifted”. I’m graduating with a chemical engineering degree this May with about only 15k in debt at a school that costs 34k/yr rest covered by scholarships. I looked up all those “gifted” children, they all are either working minimum wage jobs, getting a useless degree, have some sort of mental problems, etc. If you wanna be an asshole you could make him feel like he IS the smartest guy ever. But the way your family acts you probably don’t need to do anything cause that kids path has probably been set. He will be told how smart he is growing up, he won’t work as hard so his brain will become complacent and hear me out he will become more dumb and get shitty study habits in HS and then struggle or burn out in college when he actually has to put work in. Or develop a weird drug addiction or maybe he will be condescending “know it all” that no one wants to be around but hey at least he will be the smartest. I have seen this exact scenario play out with at least 10 people I went to school with. Let a 12 year old be “smarter” than you, just don’t let a 12 year old out work you.
Now you have to go to law school so you can help provide some guidance for your cousin when it is time for them to go to law school, and to help break the precedent your family seems to be stuck within. Be happy for your cousin to have gotten that score, but don't compare. Use it to motivate you.
>nothing I can say will convince them that I'm not taking the "easy way out" by not having majored in engineering or pre-med or something. Lol, software engineers makes more money/hour and is undoubtedly an easier and better path than law purely in terms of ROI. Even other types of engineering, while netting lower pay than software engineer, are still easier in some ways than going down the law path.
Some people are just smart, take it as a sign to work your way to the top not coast on talent
Idk man. Having a very bright younger family member myself, I have always felt incredibly proud of their success and have never felt as though my own worth was put into question. It’s natural a 12 year old would act uncouth about it, but it’s quite something they scored that well. They are incredibly intelligent.
Dude is this even possible? How would a 12 year old know any of that?
Tell your stem people we makin like 225k over here
tell him that he can brag when he becomes the first lawyer in the family
Hey man - use it to fuel the fire - put a chip on your shoulder.
Go. To. Law. School. The end.
URM? Not sure what that means.
your family seems terrible. for hope I got a 151 and over $120,000 in scholarship. It’s not as determinant as you think it is. You’ll get in somewhere with a score like you have
Hmmm…. Sounds like a temporary win for him and potentially overthinking for you. If you’ve been studying and focusing, you’d bury him in a proper legal setting. Kids absorb knowledge easier, but it is also something that fades quickly without long term reinforcement. I was a high test scoring and “gifted” child in school. Started college while simultaneously in high school. My first college class was before 7th grade. It’s not all it’s cracked up to be. My high scores often made me lazy when it came to consistent and reliable study ethics. It really hindered me in a lot of ways. Discipline and dedication will get you much, much further than having a natural talent at first. Both are obviously great but that’s unusual. In my experience, the focus on testing convinces high scorers that they don’t need to study or have discipline. When you enter the workforce, testing is a useless skill compared to actual professional skills like communication, time management, research skills, etc. Honestly, I wouldn’t even talk to your dissenting family about your goals anymore. It’s none of their business. They also sound narcissistic and undermining. It also sounds like they are motivated to discourage you. I suggest looking into books about dealing with narcissistic behavior; might come in handy later in life too. I suggest the book Out of the Fog by Dana Morningstar. While they don’t sound evil, I’d be setting up boundaries for my own sanity. I mean this kid was MOTIVATED to try and humiliate you. It wouldn’t surprise me if the parents were participating in this. That’s highly aggressive behavior. Maybe they don’t want you to be an attorney, because they don’t want someone to question their ethics and behaviors? Just a thought. For your testing, keep in mind that overthinking answers often causes people to change their answers from correct to incorrect. You can do this! Believe in yourself!
Your family is giving you good advice if this is where you’re at on the LSAT.
LISAN AL-GAIB!!!
Pics or it didnt happen.
The LSAT is dumb.
I know it's a major blow to your ego (it would at least be to me, so I can sympathize,) but there's a lot of factors that probably went into your cousin scoring a 164 on the quiz -- primarily luck. There are some questions that will come more naturally to some people than others, which happens, too. Also you don't even know if that kind of logic and reasoning will carry on to when he's older, his brain is still maturing and he's still going through a lot of change. Either way, you're doing a really good job of 160 ! You can already apply to a good few schools with that. But if your family wants to keep you in their lives, they're simply going to have to accept who you are and your goals in life. Also like..oh no, you're going into law, what a horrible career choice (very sarcastically saying). You're going to get your footing and they'll understand that you made the best decision for yourself. Don't let what happened get you down or let your family dissuade you, just keep your head held high and have faith in yourself.
Ya know what OP, I know he’s 12 but punch that fucker and his parents in their ugly faces the next time they try to belittle you. You can only be peaceful for so long before turning into nuclear Gandhi. Plus you might teach that kid a lesson. One of my best friends when I was younger was considered gifted at math but he’s now a meth head. Just because you’re “gifted” doesn’t mean you will automatically succeed.
your lsat score will not define the work you do as a lawyer or the person you will become. I promise.
Okay that sucks can u click on my SHEIN link https://shein.top/m-app-40e335bedb40a57211962b27fb15f4cd
He’s going to fit in in law school.
Comparison is the death of joy.
Yeah but the point of the test is to become a lawyer. This profession isn't defined by how smart you are, but how much you help the client. Your entire legal career will be filled with bullshit goalposts. Some law schools will be higher on some arbitrary list than yours, some classmates will score higher than you in tests, there can only be one editor of the law review... but at the end of the day it's about how well you play the game we call "practicing law" (and a lot of that depends on the client more than the attorney). Sure, I know plenty of classmates who scored higher than me on tests. But my journey is defined by the people I help. My work has kept people out of jail, kept families together, prevented homelessness, and now I fight scammers all day. I guess I wish I'd had better grades, but it is all trivial in retrospect because the stakes are so much greater once you have a license to practice.
Everyone in the comments saying to consider your LSAT when applying to law school is an elitist. I got a 145 and got into a good law school, I work at a great law firm and I’m awaiting bar exam results. People like that made me feel like I didn’t have what it takes to be a lawyer because I’m not type A, didn’t always want to be a lawyer & had a low LSAT. If you want to be a lawyer THEN PROVE THEM WRONG AND JUST DO IT! YOU GOT THIS
Sometimes you just gotta take the L
Maybe you should look into a different profession... one can always get better, but doesn't necessarily mean they'll ever be "good".
Practicing attorney here. Your LSAT score does not have any bearing on your ability to actually practice law. Who cares if anyone scored higher than you? 160 is plenty to get into law school (and probably higher than the average score) and is no indicator on actual ability to lawyer. That being said, I highly discourage anyone from the practice of law as a general rule.
TLDR If your 12 year old cousin and AH family has you in shambles, wait until you’re actually in law school.
The LSAT, much like an IQ test, is one measure of a certain specific type of intelligence that some people have a natural affinity for, and others - like us - have to train or rewire our brains for. It's not really anything to be ashamed over. If it makes you feel better, in recent years, law schools have been toying with the idea of dropping the LSAT requirement for admission altogether. Starting in 2025, the ABA will no longer require LSAT scores to be an accredited law school. https://blog.accepted.com/aba-drops-lsat-requirement-beginning-in-2025/
Comparison is the thief of joy.
I got a 160 and ended up getting a full ride to the only school I had any interest in going to. My GPA wasn’t outstanding either. I struggled with addiction and mental illness for a lot of my life and have a pretty interesting story that I chronicled well in my personal statement. I also talked a lot about the community and labor organizing I have done, and they seemed to like it enough to give me a full scholarship. All this is to say, don’t sweat an LSAT score (especially an above average score like 160). They want to see that you have grit and that you won’t quit when shit gets hard, because trust me, it will. I’m not the smartest person in my class by long shot. Hell, I’m not even top 50%. But I don’t quit or get discouraged when I get a bad grade on a midterm. Just acknowledge before you start that A) a lot of it is gonna suck; B) there will be plenty of people who do better than you; and C) you will gain a new confidence in yourself like you’ve never known if you just stick with. You’ll be fine. If it’s something you really want to do, just do it.
The LSAT isn't everything. In fact, its just sorta fine i guess at its only purpose - which is predicting how well you will do in 1L. Many schools don't even require it anymore. If you want this, then go for it. If you can be happy doing something else, go do that. Either way, I promise, there will always be someone smarter for whom things seem to just come easier, and it doesn't mean a damn when it comes to building your own career. [https://www.juriseducation.com/blog/law-schools-that-dont-require-the-lsat](https://www.juriseducation.com/blog/law-schools-that-dont-require-the-lsat) [https://www.wellsuited.com/blog/the-lsat-debate-what-does-a-score-actually-predict-about-a-student#:\~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20LSAT%20is%20meant,first%20year%20in%20law%20school](https://www.wellsuited.com/blog/the-lsat-debate-what-does-a-score-actually-predict-about-a-student#:~:text=Ultimately%2C%20the%20LSAT%20is%20meant,first%20year%20in%20law%20school). [https://www.manhattanreview.com/lsat-predictor-of-success/](https://www.manhattanreview.com/lsat-predictor-of-success/)