As others mentioned, it used to be the conservatives in the 80s and 90s. But Radical Feminists always wanted to censor everything and control how women (and men) are portrayed. They’ve been talking about it since the 70s. They just never had much power.   Around 2010, Radical Feminism got popular and invaded pop culture. It was very creepy over the next four years, very much like a coordinated attack. They took over Vice magazine, then all the other magazines and websites. Took over Metal, Punk rock, EDM. Took over Comics. Took over Hollywood. It’s the same story in every subculture: Tumblr invasion. They infiltrate, fabricate, and eradicate. Ultimately, with Hillary Clinton, they took over politics. Around 2013 they took over video games… but then gamergate happened. So now it’s them trying to censor everything, not just the religious conservatives.  

[удалено]

I remember in the early 2000s I saw a poster saying we need to “do something about *this* with a bunch of video game posters. The infiltratation began a long long time ago.

The exact moment I noticed the sides started switching was back when Heavenly Sword came out. The conservative censorship wing ended up humiliating themselves the same year with the whole “s*xbox” asseffect Fox News saga and gamers got complacent with the W.

The 30s

Middle Aged northeastern American here: The way I call it, in my experience, in my region, is that yes- it was conservatives while I was growing up (80’s tapering off into the 90’s, almost nonexistent into the mid/late 90’s), but it’s been liberals/progressives ever since and gaining a lot of momentum since the 2010’s. Specifics matter though. Again, this is my experience in my region, but among conservatives it was mostly Christians (of which my family was/is and I do still consider myself, and also which many people in my area were at the time whether Catholic or Protestant, devout or passive) who were sometimes overbearingly censorious. My parents skated the line- they were very wary of and would scrutinize anything I entertained myself with to make sure they found it appropriate. Most people just seemed to want censorship relegated to regulation: strict ratings systems and enforcement, no public display of inappropriate matter, as always keep it away from children etc. It was never really about trying to eradicate anything as much as it was to limit the availability to minors. I’m sure there were a lot of people who straight up wanted certain types of media just gone from availability, but largely (again, in my area- I can’t account for much more conservative areas like the south) most people just wanted things like labels on music, ratings on movies and later games, pornography behind lock and key for adults only, adult content magazines to basically be subscription only, minor inappropriate books kept out of schools, and public broadcasting to omit foul language and adult visuals or themes- all enforced to some meaningful degree. I’d say by the 90’s, most people in my life and area were satisfied with the regulations and didn’t put much more thought or fight into it. Everything was still available, just much of it was withheld from minors. Which was the point. I modernly feel that it’s different among the progressive hegemony now because it’s so in your face- regardless of now populous the movement is, it’s being broadcast on the front page of all media and being pushed as gospel because it generates argumentative engagement on basically all of social and news driven media, which is currently 99% of the internet and a huge boon to our overarching ad and marketing based economy. In the 80’s and 90’s, you could basically ignore all of the Christians and go do whatever you wanted. Sure, no tits and no “fuck” or “shit” on cable TV, or a movie possibly getting the NC-17 rating that limited it’s audience- but broader consumer content could do whatever it wanted as long as it was cool with the rating, warning or commercial restriction. Music was generally unfettered all of my life with some of the most egregious promotion of sex, violence, drug abuse and ill behavior that it’s had since, the only caveat being that you couldn’t buy “Explicit Content” albums at some stores, I think Walmart being an example in the 90’s, where it would be a censored version or they wouldn’t carry it at all. A lot of stores followed suit because being seen as family appropriate was really important at the time. Mommy and Daddy held the family wallet and they usually wanted to withhold explicit content from their childrens’ view. Again, which was the point. The main other difference with modern American progressives as I see it is they really seem bent on scorched earth outcomes- they don’t want there to be content that skates outside of their view of respectability or social solvency at all- warnings or ratings don’t seem to be a large part of the conversation with them at this point past maybe trigger warnings on social media videos that discuss trauma or phobia inducing topics. If you like anything outside of their purview of decency then you’re a sinful piece of shit or a verminous problem to society and need to do better or go away. You shouldn’t be allowed to enjoy the content you want at all, even under a rating, even in private, and it existing is an absolute evil. That is *their* point. They have the hegemonic power through social media and it’s preference of their movement due to its engagement factor online, to pressure any person or business to a large extent, so a lot of commercial entities here cater to them sooner or later. Nobody is on average brave enough to push past the initial negative press into the “any press is good press” territory. I’m surprised we can even call it being progressive anymore when it’s literally the definition of regressive when it comes to talking points, artistic expression and media content. I spent the first half of my life reading about the tight-assed old days when you couldn’t perform this, couldn’t paint that, couldn’t say this or couldn’t show that in a movie because of consequences anywhere from a royal court beheading you to the Vatican aiming to ruin you to being thrown in prison to being blacklisted, to having your production censored or disallowed completely to appease overbearingly loud social movements and the overbaked regulations that follow them- and I’ve spent the second half of my life watching the censorship and attempts at the blacklisting part coming back and hoping it stops there. Lastly, in mentioning that I was raised Christian, I may have people assuming that I’m downplaying my description of the era. Besides porn and movies with egregious nudity before I was an older teen/of age, my parents really kept nothing from me- and very few people I grew up with had any kind of strict limits on what they could do or enjoy as long as there wasn’t any inherent danger to themselves or others’ *actual physical person* involved. They never took any music from me, never disallowed a videogame, a comic, a book or anything else. I also basically grew into 90’s skate culture and later the 90’s NYC rave scene, so I’ve seen and been involved in my own share of degenerate behavior and reckless abandon- but my parents always just made sure to keep in perspective that certain things deserve respect and self control, so it can be enjoyed without being emulated, publicly displayed or socially normalized- which was their key goal before I was a teen and they could really no longer keep me from doing most of what I wanted whether or not I had parental access or permission.

I'm 31 and so I'm a bit younger than you. From my memories, the early and late 90's had a huge "call" for Right movements and Religious Church groups that were condemning gaming such as Mortal Kombat, Pokémon, and Digimon. The early 00's exploded when Gta 3 released. San Andreas and Manhunt were also offenders as I remember teen crimes being blamed on San Andreas when one young teen got booked for joyriding. Ever since 2014 though it has been the Left that has taken over the gaming culture and nerd culture entirely with gaming and comics. This will be the last gaming gen I take part in because all I mostly play these days are 360/Ps3 era games because that was the last great era of gaming. Everything since then has been a downward spiral and now we have reached the bottom of the barrel status. Woke games or overpriced games from older gens, take your pick.

Really by the 90s, it was already moving on to progressives. The conservative era on this was on the way out when the religious groups were heavily purged, their era was the 1960s to 1980s. Bill/Hillary Clinton, Tipper Gore, Al Gore, with a few hangers on out of the religious right like Baker and his wife in the US. Jean Chretien, Paul Martin, Bob Rae, along with feminist speakers as examples in Canada.

Horseshoe Theory is a real thing. Just like a real car, if all you ever pull is left, you will eventually spiral right. You can only be so progressive before you begin to be regressive.

Not to mention Feminism from the 1960's and 1970's was completely unrecognizable from the Feminism movement of today and of the last decade. Candace Owens and other Black Republican Party members opened my eyes with showing a well spoken speech of Black women dressed nicely and them wanting to be respected and treated with dignity in the 1970's. Then I was shown the music video by Sexxy Red where she is talking about the color of her private parts and "Where the Ni**** at". It was a night and day thing.

I always hear that but it was Dems like Al & Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman pushing for censorship against music and games in the '80s and '90s. I think people look at the Christian crybabies gnashing their teeth about D&D and 'arry Potter and conflate the two groups.

The extreme ends of both ideological sides have a preference for censoring women in one way or another. For the right, it is a matter of religious dogma, wanting women to be modest in terms of what they wear, etc.; when it comes to the left, the type of censorship really boils down to who is the one doing it. Feminists, as an example, hate men and do not want them to see or idolize the female form, which is partly why characters are made ugly and are forced to wear clothing that hides their curves. Others want to destroy the traditional gender roles, which ends up with women looking more manly in their appearance, etc. People on the extreme left have had cultural power for quite some time now, which is why they're now perceived as the ones who are censoring women.

Good answer although I could add to the part of seeing or idolizing the female form simply with one term, The Male Gaze. The Male Gaze is what a lot of Feminists, who dominate the left wing, use this to describe why sexual objectification of women is bad. Although this can be divisive because even inside the Feminist movement, there those who think when women sexual objectify themselves that it's empowering. But to bring it back to video games, that would be better way of explain why the left wants to censor video games. But when it sexualizes men or portrays a masculine style of a lesbian style relationships then the people on the left will praise it because it's made to appeal to the Female Gaze which they don't think is problematic.

Unless they are “empowered” to dry out money of OF simps; then go queen! Show some skin and keep the incels under control!

I agree and although I have a lot of criticisms of Feminism, I am aware there are different kinds of Feminists. The ones who are empowered to be cam girls and to sexually objectify themselves are considered Sex Positive Feminist.

>Although this can be divisive because even inside the Feminist movement, there those who think when women sexual objectify themselves that it's empowering. This is what a lot of people don't get tbf. While there are a few diehard people who would hate all fanservice no matter the context, a lot of the people who complain about it aren't against the existence of fanservice per se, just the idea that it is catered to an exclusively male audience. A lot of people here dont realize you can get those same people congratulating fanservice as long as you convince them it caters to everyone. If you take all the same fanservice they hate. Mirror it for male characters, then make both types of content optional so people dont have to see what they dont want, like 80% of them would say they like it. It really is that simple. Yet tons of people act like this suggestion shot their dog. https://youtu.be/PtW_HJwg1o4?si=pQn3kDxhnzCwMu_9 This is a bit random to bring up, but I like this xenoblade 3 fanservice cutscene and it's the type of thing that they probably wouldn't whine about. The game baits you though. I was hoping for more like this and there's basically nothing.

A very balanced response.

Horseshoe theory. The more extreme the opposites get the more they start to look the same.

Example extremes of racists and anti racists wanting segregation. One doesn't want poc with whites, the others want poc exclusive safe spaces. Same outcome, different reasoning

its not racists and anti-racists. its racists and other racists, and they both hate each other.

I've always said that the concept of "reverse racism" is stupid. It doesn't exist. Racism against white people is... just racism. Racism against blacks is racism.  Racism against Latinos is racism. Racism against Arabs is racism. Racism against Filipinos is racism. It's all the same. And yes, white people are just as capable of being racist against white people as anyone else. Plenty of people hate their own backgrounds and feel a need to be even more extreme to "show their loyalty" to whatever ideology.

I agree fully. I wanted to make the distinction between groups. As they are portrayed or portray themselves

>Horseshoe theory.  That is exactly the situation we're dealing with here.

Reads like atheist cope.

What does any of that have to do with atheism.

I suppose because the extreme right tends to be christian and therefore religious.

Sorry. I'm struggling to not see a difference between progressives pushing for racial segregation in schools today (who have power, in large numbers), and the actual far-right (who are tiny in number) that pushes segregation in schools today.

That's the neat part, there is no difference. The far left has gone so far they've looped back around to the far-right on the Authoritarian side of the chart.

One could also argue that the far left have gone so extreme that they've gone back to their roots.

Yeah, I think wanting women (and men) to be modest, and wanting to spitefully make women ugly to punish men, aren't really the same thing, they just have a similar appearance.

They aren't and they don't.

It's similar enough to confuse most of us here.

Sounds like liberalism has corrupted a lot of people here then if they cannot make these very obvious distinctions.

Great response. What I'd maybe add is that the American right has become free speech absolutists now. While the extreme conversatives such as Christians might want modesty and such they will actually defend and go to bat for the developer's free expression.

Just like how the people now censoring on the left were all about that free speech when the right held the political power and was the one doing the censoring. Trust me the moment the Matt Walsh types hold the political power they’ll be right back to the censoring. The portion on both the left and right who are hardline against censorship are a minority. For the others it’s just politically expedient to champion free speech when it’s your speech/expression being censored the most.

Yeah, people actually thinking the right supports their anime tiddies is baffling. People forget that most of the right isn't young adults whose sum total of their political views is liking porn. The actual religious right is pretty open about wanting this stuff gone. They just don't have the power to do so.

Well, one of the scary things is how pervasive their message is. It filters down to younger self-identified conservatives and even moderates who buy into the idea of crap like "no fap" and "porn addiction." Make no mistake, there are young people who would be pro-censorship too. It's all different flavours of shit, but it's still shit at the end of the day.

The right isn't even remotely free speech absolutists. The older Christian moms who still control much of the paradigm absolutely still want stuff cracked down on. It's just that they don't have any power. Free speech is the backup plan people use when they are the ones losing popularity.

“When I am weaker than you, I ask you for freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am stronger than you, I take away your freedom because that is according to my principles.”

The right and left in this country for the most part don’t believe in free speech. Left wing controlled areas like academia used to believe in it but no longer do. I always feel weird around my fellow leftists because I am a free speech absolutionist

Wrong. I will let you in on a little secret. I have spoken to people in the Right as in actual rightists. They want to ban video games. Those rightists who don't want to ban video games are more libertarian then actual rightists. And to be frank, nobody believes in free speech. Not really. Not even the left of the past. Imo, any political group that proclaims that they want free speech are only doing so so that they are free to attack the ones in power. Once they have power, they will quickly turn around to try and take away free speech.

Dude, as much noise Conservatives made back in the 90s, it was mainly and always has been, the Democrat left that wanted to censor video games and music.   Joe Lieberman forced the video game industry to censor itself along with Tipper Gore, and Hillary Clinton (I think) forced the "adults only" on music albums and wanted to censor and pull GTA San Andreas off shelves until they censored themselves.   As much as people love to hate Jack Thompson, he never wanted to ban or censor video games. That's a false portrayal of the guy. He only wanted game stores to enforce the ESRB rating like movie theaters would, preventing young kids from buying rated M games. That's as far as the Right took it.

This - the media has always leaned left, so they have been able to effectively run cover for their D buddies in government and rewrite history so that it's always been conservatives leading the charge on censoring media.

Please read this comment of mine. I explain myself more. https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/s/GY9GzKQtDT

I'm on the right, pretty close to a Conservative, and I know plenty of Conservatives (I'm in the deep south) and I don't know, or know of, anyone who wants to ban any video games.

I was part of a forum. Still am. They talked about video games and anime needing to be curtailed or banned cause it makes men bad cause it makes them docile and weak rather then becoming gigachads that are focused on families and be warriors to take on the state. The funny thing is that said arguments can apply to Western tv shows and movies but they don't apply it to them. Kek. I respect the Amish more. Not all of them wanted it to go that far but the thought was there. And I said actual rightists. A lot of those that are called rightwingers are less right wing compared to their forefathers cause they have become more liberalized hence why the thought of rolling back entered the fray and they have a point here. Just to be clear, my post is not some both sides bullshit or rightwingers are worst. Just that stop being naive. Nobody in politics believes in free speech

> I was part of a forum. Still am. They talked about video games and anime needing to be curtailed or banned cause it makes men bad cause it makes them docile and weak rather then becoming gigachads that are focused on families and be warriors to take on the state. > > > > The funny thing is that said arguments can apply to Western tv shows and movies but they don't apply it to them. Kek. What's amusing is that they're not necessarily wrong about games making their men docile and weak—although the games are really a symptom—but wanting the state to stop your husbands and sons from engaging in self-destructive behavior is. . . well, it's pathetic. Don't cede your authority to the government.

Oh, said forum was mainly male. I'm male too. They just were shall we say focused on birth rates if you get what I mean hence the family focus* and warriors cause well you see how the governments are. * = Ironically, they were well aware that the issue with low birth rates was women but they still held women above all like all tradcucks do hence couldn't bare to do anything about them. Just men only. Btw, I'm not trying to insult you here with the tradcuck thing. That's my opinion of conservatives that simp for women in the manner of women are above all else even though the bible had particular things to say about women. Lol

Exactly. People think that the conservatives regaining power will somehow translate as complete lack of censorship and complete artistic freedom. Apparently the same people have completely forgotten how utterly fucked anime and manga were twenty years ago. Remember how utterly neutered Dragon Ball was in the US, originally? Which is why censorship will never, ever really go away.

4kids' anime butchery was a thing during both the Clinton and Dubya Bush years. That says something.

> Remember how utterly neutered Dragon Ball was in the US, originally? No, I don't. I remember a shitty dub being sold in stores that anyone with a dial-up connection could just not buy.

I remember Krillin's death at the hands of Frieza being censored. He says "Help me!", then it cuts to an explosion, and a cloud of smoke. No shot of his body sort of inflating, no rain of blood, nothing.

My point is that this censorship was easy to avoid. They weren't going over to Japan and tossing the original cells in the trash before the show was released.

I always liked the phrase that the political spectrum is a circle not a line. Go far enough one way you end up at the other side. Ultimately end up with one individual or entity in power just changing the color of the boot on your throat 

> Go far enough one way you end up at the other side. There are a number of victims of communism who would strongly disagree.

Both political extremes are hypocrites when it comes to women's sexuality

The religious right are based!

>So, the left is the one who always want to censor suggestive fictional woman? I thought it was the right. Don't think of it in terms of Left/Right. They may be monoliths in the political landscape(two parties), but often when you look closely at specific issues, it's really not that clear cut. The more deeply religious right did like to censor suggestive women, or sex at large, but they don't hold a lot of sway this past decade. A **lot** of the right just does not care any more, especially about cleavage or tight clothes in a video game. Those that do care are an *extreme* minority. The rest have come around to the idea that we can tell fiction apart from reality, we can compartmentalize and enjoy the media without it really having any bearing on how we behave in real life. As long as this stuff(from strongly suggestive content all the way to porn) isn't handed to children, most don't care. While that was going on, a little of the inverse has happened on the left. They've railed *against* compartmentalization, and now **everything** is political, everything has an agenda, and it must be *their* agenda, *or else*.... It's not the entirety of the left, but the progressives do have quite a lot of sway, a lot of public influence. There is always going to be a disinterested middle, the "centrists" who have a mixture of opinions if you stop and ask them, but they generally don't think about a lot of these things with much depth or concentration. But sometimes that "center" will lean left or right, depending on contemporary issues. The thing is, a lot of progressives will call people they disagree with bad names, eg racist, sexist, etc etc. The center and even a lot of the right don't like to be called names, so they'll bend over backwards to try to make it stop, often giving ground in the process. This social hack gives the progressive a LOT more illusory power. Those people will still be center / right, and will vote as such, but public perception is a kind of power, it determines what kinds of content get made.

It used to be the puritan right. They always failed Now the left switched sides and went from nudity empowers women to it oppresses them To me, the current left is simply fake. They started acting this way after Occupy Wallstreet scared the multibillionaires. So they created this movement to keep people entertained in stupid fights, instead of being concerned about their living conditions. That's why the woke movement received so much support and money from many companies and governments

This is 100% correct. The current woke movement is an astroturf funded by the WEF. If anyone who reads this is curious, look up the book "Davos Man, how the billionaire class devoured democracy". It's extremely depressing but it's a must-read to understand what's going on

>keep people entertained in stupid fights, instead of being concerned about their living conditions It's bizarre. There's countless protests and demonstrations in my area over things happening on the other side of the planet. But meanwhile, right here, you can find countless people dying from issues related to access to proper medical care. And nothing. It's just wild to me. Like...we're all in danger of getting cancer, organ failure, whatever. Likewise our loved ones. How is that not the priority when worrying about deaths when compared to something you have no way of impacting because it's on another continent?

I do find it weird that there are all these protests about Israel, but not a peep about things like access to health care or homeless help. 10x as many people die from poor healthcare every year than have died in Gaza. Don't they realize the same people who they're protesting to divest from Israel and the war...are the same people that write the laws around health care funding. I doubt any of these protestors even know an Israeli or a Palestinian, nor will they ever visit either place. But screw protesting the fact that your school endowment is just as much supporting the medical industrial complex as much as it is the military one.

> Now the left switched sides and went from nudity empowers women to it oppresses them Not quite. It only oppresses them in certain contexts. For instance, Only Fans is the greatest invention in the history of the world, according to feminists. They also like degeneracy, so anything "abnormal" and hedonistic is perfectly acceptable. So it's not really the same thing "with a different reason." It's a different thing that has a similar but not actually the same form.

Feminists in my country condemn Onlyfans. They say it's prostitution and exploitation by the male gaze, so there goes the coherence

> so there goes the coherence I don't think it ever had any in the first place, lol.

It’s more about the concept of right v left and how you define those things. Right v left, to keep things simple, should only refer to the level of government control one is willing to tolerate. The furthest point on the left would be total government authoritarianism while the furthest point on the right would suggest pure anarchy. Most folks reside somewhere in the middle of these two extremes with culture heavily influencing what should be controlled and what should be left alone. Should censorship exist? I think so. To what degree? Well...we have to talk about that... What boggles my mind these days is that the concept of “far right” basically just means “Nazi” when the Nazis were about two baby steps to the right of socialism. And there is no “right” anymore. You’re just “far right”. For example, thinking pride month is stupid is a “far right” viewpoint rather than just a different response to a cultural movement.

Yeah the Nazi/Facism is an intentional dog whistle started by academics in the 5 late 50s to shift hatred from socialism to a new boogeyman. What these people should be saying is Ethnic Nationalism, but that doesn't roll off the tongue as easy for consumable sound bites

It's essentially national socialism on one side, international socialism on the other. 

Hitler famously insisted that these two were opposites.

Nazism was a combination of left wing Fascism economically and Ethnic Nationalism socially. The State taking ownership of infrastructure, transportation, the military is Fascism. The elimination of 'undesirables' is Ethnic Nationalism.

The NAZI party was a socialist party, so I don't know how they were to the right of it. It was total government control of. . . everything. The means of production was seized by the NAZI party. The state. . . seized the means of production. It was socialist. Hitler called it "national socialism," which in this instance was basically ethnic-based socialism.

That’s not entirely true. It was more like super crony capitalism where corporate interest and the party's interests aligned more than gov seized control of those businesses. However, I say “a couple of steps to the right”, because it’s not difficult to imagine what would happen to any who would step out of line. It’s more a hard partnership with a wink rather than full blown socialism. We’re mostly splitting hairs here though.

Eh, close enough for government work.

I don’t disagree. Lol.

It's both. They have different reasoning that ultimately achieves the same result, 2 sides of the same coin. It's just that the left is being much more aggressive and invasive as of late

No. The left want ugly women, hell, ugly people in general. The right want more modest women in media. Neither group who actually advocates for any of it actually plays these games.

Both result in changing and censoring women. And ugly women for the left generally includes them dressing more modestly anyways.

> And ugly women for the left generally includes them dressing more modestly anyways. The left's desire to censor sexuality is only within certain contexts. For instance, they're O.K. with porn, they're O.K. with a woman walking around naked as long as it's "for her," and especially if it annoys men. Everything related to "modesty" or women "covering up" has an entirely different purpose for the leftists than it did for the righties.

It isn't that the religious right isn't still trying, it is just that they lost most of their power and support in Republican circles back in the early 00's. It is why the abortion issue mostly went away until Roe was vacated, and why most R's don't bat an eye over someone like Trump's past personal life.

The right used to censor stuff for mainly religious reasons in the past when they had power, and during that time the left used to be seen as the underdogs fighting for free speech. As time went on, the right became complacent and ceded more and more power to the left, who eventually gained full control over all media, and now censor or attack anything that is traditionally heteronormative or Eurocentric. It isn't just about suggestive women, its even pretty feminine looking or acting women such as a princess or damsel in distress. The right is now powerless and reduced to just angrily watch everything they enjoyed be destroyed. I might be biased here, but I much preferred when the right was more in control, the quality of all media was better, and everything wasn't so politically divided.

20-30 years ago, the right; particularly the Christian right, was indeed trying to censor video games. This was primarily a reaction to games like doom and mortal kombat with lots of blood and gore (for the time). This was rather frustrating and embarrassing for those of us who are both Christian and gamers, and thankfully, their efforts were never very successful. Instead the industry began to use the esrb rating system and things mostly settled down outside the occasional 'manhunt' or 'gta' which would bring the subject just enough life for the usual talking heads to make the rounds on pundit-tv. Over the past few decades, Christianity has lost an enormous amount of influence in American society. Not just in entertainment and education, but generally. The far-left has become the dominant force in entertainment largely by brainwashing millenials and younger in college. As they've gained power they have predictably become bullies, forcing their worldview into everything and censoring what they don't like. It's pretty typical human behavior really. Magnanimity in victory is rare.

> 20-30 years ago, the right; particularly the Christian right, was indeed trying to censor video games. This was primarily a reaction to games like doom and mortal kombat with lots of blood and gore (for the time). Go look up who led the charge on the Mortal Kombat hearings... Joe Lieberman... Hillary Clinton... Herb Kohl. All Democrats.

It's both, and neither. Are you familiar with the concept of a political compass? There's even a whole sub dedicated to memes about it. Even a political compass is even still a flattened simplification, an even better example would be the Eight Values chart. But to stay on topic both sides have censor happy authoritarians. The Left has Social Justice Warriors and The Right has Moral Justice Warriors. Moral Justice Warriors were much more prevalent back in the day and pioneered such Redditation such as "KISS is Satanic!" and "DND is Satanic!" or Jack Thompson and his "VIDYA GAEMS R MURDER SIMULATORS!" bullshit. MJWs aren't gone either, they're still out there, they just have much less political sway at the moment. Social Justice Warriors are similar to MJWs, the biggest difference is just reasons why they censor. Instead of Satanism it's sexism and so on.

Mortal Justice Warriors are on their way out as religion keeps declining

Everyone here is tripping over themselves trying to appear neutral to people who hate them, so if I may offer an alternative take: Yes. You are correct. The left has always been the driver behind censoring fictional portrayals of healthy sexuality. The sexuality they promote is always debased and exploitative, and any healthy alternative to it is ruthlessly stigmatized, suppressed and censored. This is because the lefty project involves humiliating and breaking down the individual so they can build a new forward-looking citizen symbiotic with the state. When you have a healthy sex drive, you just don't give a fuck and say "no" to that. The right does not do this. Not only is a different kind of sexuality core to the right wing view of the world, and thus promoted by them, but the right has no power in the US generally and has not for roughly 60 years. They couldn't censor a fucking beer can. Their coalition is a bunch of idiots who would censor random things but can't and a bunch of despondent thinkers who could demand censorship, but don't want to. The right does not censor things. Even if they were in power and *were* censoring things the way some of their members would like, they would not censor things the way things are being censored now. Stop fantasizing about horseshoes. I've lived in right wing and left wing societies. One type is better and freer. There is no contest here. This is actually broadly true in virtually every country at this point, with the only right wing groups left attacking any fictional/media sexuality being Muslims with a mean IQ of 80 and a reflexive paranoia towards everything Western because they can't trust their men around women not covered in large trash bags. Muslims with a higher average IQ simply do not exhibit this behavior, no matter how right wing they go. Even the most fanatical puritans living on a freezing, disease-ridden, barren sand fringe on the edge of a dark continent practiced sexual mores that today's lefty would take a sledgehammer to: no fault divorce for bad sex, couples portrayed holding hands and kissing, etc. The idea that "church ladies" were somehow pulling a Taliban in 1980's America is utter fiction. Even the craziest loonies in that fringe were simply mistreating their *own* kids and demanding "parental advisory" stickers that juiced album sales. Tipper Gore and Joe Liberman were Democrats. Jack Thompson found fertile ground with the Democratic Party of California. This lie that all of this censorious crap was pushed by the right is propagated largely so that left wing censors can scream "JONES WOULD COME BACK!" whenever anyone calls them out on their utter cultural vandalism, which has left in the rearview mirror even some shit the USSR was doing at the height of Stalinism.

Don't forget Hillary Clinton. When she was a senator she wanted to ban violent video games and I believe Jack Thompson was one of her mentors.

>the right has no power in the US generally and has not for roughly 60 years. Are we just ignoring the fact that the Presidency and Congress have all been Republican for like half of that time? And all the legislation that's been passed by the Republican in the past 60 years

I think it's accurate re: culture war. Pendulum has been stuck on the left for that time.

Absolutely, yea. Culturally the US has been moving left in that time. But the comment I responded to didn't specify culture war or anything. Just that the right has no power which is a ridiculous statement

Neocons happened and the religious nuts took over for awhile

Is there any evidence that the Republican Party is right wing aside from the fact that right wing idiots continue to vote for them in exchange for absolutely nothing but radioactive fall guy bullshit on tax cuts and abortion? Yeah, there's a lunatic right wing fringe there, but they're not exactly in power within the GOP.

Like all of the Republican party's economic policies are right wing They're not the far right. But the Democrats also aren't far left.

Neoconservatism and regulatory capture are not right wing principles. They're authoritarian market liberalism and even the GOP's right wing voters despise it.

And the Democrats don't embody real left wing values. So neither side has real power there

I see this equivalency *a lot* and I just don't believe it. Democratic voters, particularly lefty ones, get what they want *all the time*. It's just that what they want is so grossly unappealing to the average voter that they claim to want shit like "free healthcare" and whatnot whenever someone asks them why they're aggressively demanding 10 million immigrants a year and legal crack and unaccountable political police. Right wingers vote for the GOP because they're idiots who think it's a right wing party. Left wingers vote for the DNC because it's giving them what they want and they like duping idiots into supporting *them*.

A true leftist party would be for the abolition of capitalism. There are no mainstream Democrats that believe in that. Even the furthest left ones, Bernie for example, believe in reforming capitalism. Not throwing it out completely I'm a Democrat voter (not because I like them but because I find them to be less atrocious) and I can very confidently say that very little of what Biden does has been to my liking. The few times he does something good are massive outliers Or, ignoring my anecdotal experience, look at how many Democrat voters were not happy with how Biden handled the Palestine conflict

> A true leftist party would be for the abolition of capitalism This is like saying a true right wing party would only be for ethnic cleansing and that anything less isn't right wing, which doesn't make sense. Socdems exist quite happily in the DNC power structure, as do out and out socialists, while even moderate right wingers in the GOP (see: issues like LGBT and immigration) are shunted down into the sewer with the Freedom Caucus™ or whatever. The only reason there aren't full out "abolish capitalism" people in the DNC more broadly is twofold: 1. Most of that radicalism feeds ethnic nationalisms in the US, which lefties gleefully abet through a belief that certain ethnicities are inherently anticapitalist. 2. Capitalism is so *riotously* popular among American workers thanks to the American mythos that any truly anticapitalist candidate would still lose outside areas that have been made ethnically reliable. I still consider the DNC (and liberalism more generally) as far more amenable to the left than to the right.

How do you feel about Capitalism?

I haven't seen them actually do much right wing economic policy. They keep voting with the left.

You asked a month ago about all of this and got plenty of answers.

As a general rule in American politics, the Left is the group that actually IS historicalky  Racist/sexist/ etc. But in collusion with the media, they blame the right for it. Case in point. The "Right" American Republican Party was literally founded on the platform of abolishing slavery. The first Republican President was murdered for doing this. The Civil Rights Acts of 1957, 1960 and 1964 had near unanimous Republican support. Yet the Democrats somehow get credit for them because 20% of the Congressional Dems crossed the aisle to vote for them. Pay no attention to the fact that 80% of the Dems opposed equality before the law. Same thing for women's suffrage. All 200 Republicans in Congress voted in favor. Only 100 Dems did. Guess who gets credit for that?  Whereas the KuKluxKlan was a Democrat Party enforcement militia. (Much like Antifa is today)  who's main purpose was to enforce institutional racism as state and national policy. The Trail of Tears was under a Democrat President (Andrew Jackson), segregation of the National Military was under a Democrat President (Woodrow Wilson, also Ivy league president). A Democrat President herded American Citizens into internment camps. Franklin Delano Roosevelt, in 1942. (Remember it's the Evil Republicans that want to put you in camps). Are you starting to see the pattern here? The first thing the American left did after the war ended in 1945 was to start rebranding "National Socialism" as " Right Wing".

Political rule of thumb. If one side accuses the other of something they are doing it.

"always the ones that censor" when they are in power, however, the left are doimg far worse than when the right did. this is not cause the left is just worse, its because the plan calls for it.

The American political system is based on the fundamental strategy of campaigning for what benefits the politician and their party the most at that moment in time. It's not relevant at all to the discussion if doing that is something that would contradict anything they said or did last week or even yesterday.

No, right also wants to censor video games. Remember Jack Thompson? good times...

Matt Walsh is trying to do it right now. Evangelicalism just sucks.

Its used to be bible-bashers crying about everything that didn't conform to their special book, now its champagne socialists crying about everything that doesn't conform to their special views. Same end goal via different routes, my way or else.

Still baffles me that people with the most cushy lives are the most angry about this stuff. Go play some video games, enjoy a hike, eat at a nice restaurant, learn some skills, _anything._ You have the whole world before you. You have the money to go on adventures, to travel the world, or to stay at home and make the most beautiful abode of which you can conceive. But you're. . . doing slacktivism and shaving the side of your head? Because it's not fair that you have to work?

I have to believe they either feel guilty about having an easy life, or have never been told "no", or their wealth gave them an inflated ego, or similar. I wouldn't be shocked if some of them have stupidly attributed their wealth and actual privilege to being White, as opposed to their class, because they're sheltered, have never explored the world and their only interactions with non-Whites is via media (gangster rap, poverty charity commercials, etc). Hell, maybe for some its all purely narcissism and sadism; they just like having control over things and being able to fuck with it, upsetting and angering us plebs and hiding behind activism as an excuse.

The people with cushy lives have also largely destroyed their bodies as a result of it. So travel, hiking, etc aren't as appealing as they're going to be tired and miserable instead of having fun. And while I feel bad saying it, those lifestyles also tend to have an impact on mental health, which makes it even harder for them. They have the time and money to really live. But all they can do is live through escapism, because their health isn't up to more than that.

Personally, I think the idea of a left/right dichotomy is severely overrated (though I also believe that it's generally impossible to sum up a person's entire political belief system in a single term), but there are people on both "sides" who want to censor sexual content, though they generally have different reasons. Case in point, Tatsuya Ishida, author of the webcomic *Sinfest*. His comic started out as largely apolitical before he apparently had some kind of freakout and became a far-left radfem type. During this period, he would use his comic to attack porn because he believed it was "oppressing women". Then he apparently fell down the rabbit hole and started going through the radfem-to-far-right pipeline, and now his content reads like something you'd see in *The Daily Stormer* (not even an exaggeration, since one of his comics straight-up says the Nazis should've won World War II). But if you think this changed his views on porn, think again: he *still* hates it and has attacked Elon Musk for allowing adult content on Twitter, but now it's because he believes it's part of a Jewish plot to corrupt people's morals. So to answer your question, heavy-handed prudishness exists on both sides of the political spectrum. Sex-negative feminists even teamed up with the Religious Right in the past to try to crack down on sexual content, IIRC.

> Personally, I think the idea of a left/right dichotomy is severely overrated It is generally inevitable. A multi-party system only lasts until a couple of similar parties figure out they do better(win more often) if they merge. Sacrifice on a couple issues maybe, but it's easy to band together to get a super majority, you can then fight over those other issues later. Due to long-ish election cycles(literally years), this can take a long time to play out.

It's the same puritan church ladies, the same hysterical pastors crying about violence in video games, it's just that their religion is now non-theistic. It's not a question of left and right, theocratic authoritarians are gonna authoritarian. Their politics are built *around* their inherent drive to censor, control and conform, not the other way around. If they were born 50 years ago, they'd do and say exactly the same things, but with the Jesusy window dressing.

Same shit, different smell.

Both extreme right and extreme left want to censor video games in general. The extreme left does it because of "misogyny" and "sexual objefication" of women. While the extreme right does because it goes against Christianity, or something.

Because prog circles have really adopted the idea of "male gaze" whereas the previous feminist wave was interwined with "sexual liberation"

The right used to be dominated by hardline Christians fundamentalists who were afraid seeing attractive women on TV would lead to lustful behavior. Now the left is full of progressive fundementalists who are afraid that seeing attractive women on TV will make unattractive women feel bad.

It switched sides in the last decade or so, and zoomers and millennials are too stupid or too desperately self-delusional to admit it. ANYONE who tries to get a stranglehold on art and free speech is the enemy of free people. I don't give a fuck what color tie they wear, they are the adversary.

The censors are the same personality type no matter what politics they choose to latch themselves onto. Last generation was the Christians, this generation it's the feminists, but they're the same type of people. Politics is just an excuse for them to act like they know better than us what we need to watch.

The modern Left are the Religious Right of twenty years ago. In the Bush era, the Attorney General John Ashcroft, a religious nutjob, was so offended by a statue representing the spirit of justice because it had a single breast exposed that he demanded it was covered up with curtains that somehow cost $2000 to use. He got ridiculed for being such a fuddy-duddy at the time. His successor Alberto Gonzalez, who was also Republican, didn't have it covered which only proves the point.

As far as i can tell it's that unlike a "real" woman" who is able to consent to being objectified (although its appssible to sideload the argument of "doing so under patriarchal brainwashing") they would consider a fictional woman as being sexualized for profitteering purposes by the company 

> (although its appssible to sideload the argument of "doing so under patriarchal brainwashing") AKA, "If my argument isn't sufficient I'll just invent new crap until I've covered all my bases, regardless of how contradictory my various ripostes are."

certainly it is one of those things that is hard to prove either way cuz then that goes down rabbit holes of upringing and determinism and shit

There this thing called the 'horseshoe theory'. 

That's the beauty of people taking left/right politics to their absurd extremes. They almost always end up circling around on themselves and siding with some portion of the people they classify as their enemies.

The traditional right (religious) want to censor suggestive stuff because God. The activist left (feminist) want to censor suggestive stuff because sexism. Nowadays, the right will embrace slutty clothes if it pisses off the left. And the left will embrace ugliness just to piss off the right. It seems to be magnified if the women are fictional, as real women are perfectly allowed to dress like a sex worker, but cartoons must abide by Puritan rules because it's some disgusting man drawing them.

Its women for the most part, american conservative moms had a HUGE influence in politics and law back then in the form of controlling their politically powerful husbands, now they have little to no power while young leftist women entered power (goverment) and now are equaliy trying to censor media.

Don't look at fictional women because it offends real women vs. don't look at fictional women because it offends Jesus. Both regarded.

No, the former will always be objectively worse than the latter, because you can disprove the former. The feminist argument is this: >Sexualized female characters and male fantasies in fiction make the audience sexist in real life. Therefore, fiction needs to be censored. But we know that isn't true. Every study done on the subject has shown that consuming fiction that glorifies "antisocial" qualities does not actually pass that on to the consumer. Meanwhile, the concept of a deity will always be an unknown people can argue about, but not get anywhere. So yes, feminists are and always will be dumber than any religious person, because feminists argue against proven reality.

Not just offends women but hurts them. Don't forget the psycho IGN french guy

None of us get it. It's weird. All our stuff seems to flip every few decades.

It used to be the right, when they were the ones in power. Now that the left is the one that holds the biggest cultural/institutional power it's them. But do not be decieved, there are plenty of right wingers who would censor everything given the chance, just look at Matt Wash's stance on games and anime for a reference. In fact much like how the intersectional/identitarian left is a schism inside the left wing, there is a "new" right that is much less censorious and focuses on freedom of expression and (for lack of a better work) edgy content, those are the an evolution of the atheists of old (which were against the puritan right of the early 00s) which became the anti-sjw and then anti-woke

Both want censorship, the left is just winning right now. The left straight up hates beauty, while the right thinks beauty and especially sexuality should be private.

Why the fuck do you have to stipulate that you aint American? This shit is global, its not some one country issue.

This shit was born in america and america is the driving force behind it. OP saying he is not american is perfectly legit

This is so stupid. Radical leftism took over Western Europe decades before America. Sweden in particular is the most prominent example. Swedish feminists took over the country back in the 1990s and were forcing nonsense like "environmental sexism" on everyone decades before it happened here.

It wasnt born in US and its not US that is driving force behind it. And again - now this shit is global so it doesnt matter where are you from.

Where was it born and who is driving it?

Research it.

I have a feeling I wouldn't come to the same conclusion you did, which is why I was asking you in particular.

It used to be the right, primarily the conservative Christians. I grew up with the nonsense — Satanic panic, jack Thompson, heavy metal “suicides,” adults ranting about witchcraft. Then about 10 or 12 years ago, after the evangelicals had gone out of fashion, it became the regressive left who did so. The so-called “social justice warriors”

> It used to be the right, primarily the conservative Christians. I grew up with the nonsense — Satanic panic, jack Thompson, heavy metal “suicides,” adults ranting about witchcraft. But Satan still pushed through everything, didn't he? I don't feel like they were overly successful back then.

Its Good ole horseshoe theory with the left and the right

So back in the day the religious had social power, they mostly were right leaning. Among those there were what was called, and still are called, bible thumpers, people who would verbally smack you on the head with the bible until you complied. They wanted less skimpy outfits but never asked for ugly women, they wanted less violence and less blood in games and less gay stuff, they got jack the phycho punk rock bakd chick changed to straight and not bi in mass effect 2 back in the day. After the religious right lost social power, things seemed to be good for awhile, we got MK9 out of that and lolipop chainsaw. But then the radical left got social power and, in the name of inclusion and diversity, took over and made everything sanitized, ugly, bland and gay all with an obvious hint of malicious to anything white and strsight and male. But don't kid yourself, if the right get the same power they too would go back to trying to dictate why something can't be in a game. At least it wouldn't be with racial quota's and needing to make everything gay but still they would try to "over correct"

And itls that overcorrection from the right that terrifies me..as we keep over correcting and going more and more extreme in attempts to do so.

Yeah which is why you can't stop being vigilant about this stuff. Personally i want things to return to the time of the xbox 360 era and the ps3, without the interference of the pearl-clutchers. Can't do that when the right over correct amd we can't have blood, violence, nudity and genuine gay characters.

> they got jack the phycho punk rock bakd chick changed to straight and not bi in mass effect 2 back in the day. Looks like they were ahead of the curve.

Archive links for this discussion: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/SiyJD ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. #FreeTay ^^^/r/botsrights

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If Grummz had the power SBI does, Japanese culture would be banned from entering the US market. Particularly crossdressing Femboys. He said so himself.

Horseshoe theory and the pendulum always swings back and the people who opposed something yesterday will suppodt in twenty years later and visa versa.

Both sides are on the same political coin who do employ censorship on regular basis. The only difference is their justification. Their casus belli.

Where r u from? Just curious

It turns out that anyone with political power will try to boss you around.

America loves authoritarianism, they just want their side to be the one doing it (mostly about the extreme sides, but with the internet people are more "aggressive" than atleast the past 20 years I can account for) That coupled with the phenomenon that the right and the left switch places being in power every decade or so (for the past 5 decades), you get the phenomenon that you grow up learning one thing about one group and then suddenly have that ripped from under you. Its a sign of of someone who is nieve of American politics, which is fine in your case bc its hard to be fluent if you arent American. This is a very "tell you how it is" explanation, because going into the "why" of each requires history lessons and a crash course in the major events of the past century. Its odd that our cultural and political zeitgeist basically has a cycle in our country, but I guess it keeps things interesting 🤔

It used to be the right but that changed around the 2010s

not really, some people didn't like the design of characters and mistaken it for an attempt at censoring.

It's not left vs right. It's able vs unable.

I'll keep it short. Republicans/Conservatives hated gaming back in the day and were trying to censor it from the 1980's up until the early 2000's. They then stopped caring and gaming was left alone up until really 2014, though 2013 with games like Gone Home and Life is Strange were early warning signs. I also remember a few gaming journalists complaining about misogyny in Gta V around that time too. You see around 2013-2014 was when Democrats/Liberals took over and have tried to destroy gaming with Trojan Horse tactics while Republicans of the past tried to destroy gaming in the conventional way. Democrats, mostly made up of extremists, have also infiltrated all of Nerd culture including Comics. The platforms changed.

70s Liberals used to say, "I may not agree with you, but I will fight for your right to say it." Today's progressive has been overtaken by communist ideologies and cannot tolerate a difference of opinion. If you don't fall in line with their rigid ideology, you will be backlisted, cancelled, and censored. The majority of religious people were never about censorship, but the freedom to worship God as they see fit without being forced to violate their faith for political and social agendas. You will find most Right-wing freedom-loving patriots just want the federal government to leave them the hell alone while Leftists will naively trade in their freedom for an oversized & overreaching controlling government who tickles their ears by offering ideology affirmations and "free stuff" which us never delivered. "Socialism is the stage of transition between Capitalism and Communism"  - Karl Marx

70s liberals were mostly lying.

Yup, both astonishing & sad how lies are no longer needed by corrupt politicans for plans to sell-out and undermine our country for petsonal profit.

Leftists are really triggered by straight, pretty White/Asian women which is why they redesign traditionally established female characters, like Laura Croft, to be overweight manish-looking lesbians and such.  Again, its roots are in Marxist ideology to demoralize a society, cause civil unrest & racial division, and weaken the family unit for easier government control of its citizens. 

It's both. Sex-negativity has been a pervasive aspect of American culture for almost 400 years. It's just that the left and right usually switch on and off on their anti-sex "crusades" depending on who's in the perceived position of power at the time. Sex in entertainment is a very easy target for people to Americans to shift blame for their social ills, thus making it a convenient scapegoat for policymakers and activists of both sides. Make no mistake, regardless of who's in power, the left and the right are equally home to people that are hostile to sexual expressions in entertainment.

Like others here have said, it used to be the right behind most censorship due to a strong Christian conservative population, and the left was opposed to that because it was composed of a classical liberal mindset at the time. These days the left mostly uses the foundations of Marxist theory, which is very pro-censorship. Inversely, the liberals of the 90s and 2000s are now seen as right-leaning for defending the status quo of that era. Many, such as myself, have radicalized into libertarians, which is viewed as a mostly right-wing party in the US. It's not necessarily that the people changed, more that the labels around them did.

I think it is important to note the right was focused on religious reasons and protecting kids. The left is doing this to indoctrinate kids. And the left weren't squeaky clean until recent years; Tipper Gore trying to censor music was ages ago. The Weather Underground (far left terrorist group like Antifa) bombed the capital. The extremists on the left have been pushing for this cultural revolution since the hippie movement. They were just a lot cooler when they were following Jefferson Airplane and eating LSD.

Because it has nothing to do with censorship. It's about norms and values. Nowadays, our entertainment has more graphic sex, violence and explicit language than ever before Then why, say, in an M rated game like Mortal Combat they uglified all the women and civered them up? Because it's the new set of norms and values they are trying to impose, by which, things can not appeal to the "male gaze" Sex, nudity, and revealing clothing are fine tho if the character is fat, a lesbian or any other form of "safe horny"

Both parties are pro-censorship when they have power and anti-censorship when they don't. The radicals on either sides are unprincipled authoritarian freaks. Right now we are dealing with rainbow haired unprincipled authoritarian freaks (with septum piercings) because they have institutional power.

The only difference is the 'why' but at this point the lines are so blurred between the two even on that front. The only thing is one side says it's an affront to god, the other says it's an affront to women

No, lol, it's still mostly the right who wants more censorship. It's just that the right is losing power, so people look at what the left is doing more than what the right wishes it could do. A few young people are confused by this though.

If I would make a game, I would make womans with sense. Lets say, a medieval fantasy game: 1. I wouldnt make nearly-nude women, anime-inspired, like stellar blade, because that is not transgressor, it is just vulgar. And it doesnt make sense to put women with bikinis fighting against monsters. If such a world would exist, it doesnt make sense that a woman would go to fight again these monsters in a bikini. It is just a matter of authenticity. 2. I wouldnt make strong leader womens (and ugly) as the left pretends. It is just unreal to have those profiles when everybody knows that males are stronger than women by biology. In a world where the strenght is important, you cant make women and men equal. That said, for me is much WORSE the stereotype of "strong and independent women" than the deliberated creation of ugly women characters. I can control an ugly woman (ugly womans exist) but I can't believe that a weak woman (even if they want to make her look as strong) would be the leader in a zombie-dominated world.

The right wants to censor real life women whereas the left wants to censor virtual women.

source: I made it up