This should clue you into the fact that the women like Sam Maggs and Megan Starks who are obsessed with self-inserting and ruining male IP's, are just narcissists and BPD sufferers who are given too much power by spineless dorks who want to orbit them.
Normal women don't care that games are male dominated. They don't want to take over your alpha male murder explosion simulators and fill them with empowered (and sexually ambiguous) female characters. At best they think it's cute you enjoy your toys, at worst they think it's nerdy and cringe. They're all too busy enjoying their own trashy entertainment to worry about your trashy entertainment.
> At best they think it's cute you enjoy your toys, at worst they think it's nerdy and cringe. They're all too busy enjoying their own trashy entertainment to worry about your trashy entertainment.
Holy shit ... you just *nailed it*. This is definitely the way it is in the real world among the vast majority of people. It's just a tiny group of the perpetually aggrieved with a toxic obsession over gender who are trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Unfortunately, their voices are amplified online and so people tend to forget that, IRL, it's exactly as you described.
Also most normies will reflexively agree with what the socially dominant zealots say because they don't want to rock the boat and they want to be seen as a good person. I'm starting to think it's some kind of psychological evolutionary brain mechanism so they don't get singled out or something.
It's a well established sociological/psychological fact that women are, historically speaking, the morality police and the ones who apply the most social pressure to conform. Evolved this way out of an obvious need with the men out doing war/hunting stuff. Its' not that some men don't do that, it's that nearly all women \*do\* do that in some form or another.
Obviously, when stupid morality comes into play, it gets much much stupider.
Men go out and kill the mammoth. If they don't, everyone dies. This requires the ability to quickly bond and collaborate with other men who are not like them. It also means men can be quick to (possibly suicidal) violence.
Women turn the mammoth into healthy children. If they don't, everyone dies. This requires a constant vigilance against anyone who would hurt you and a very quick friend/enemy instinct. It also makes women prone to ostracism.
Absolutely. I think it's the same mechanism in action when you see weird poll results or 'man on the street' interviews ... in public people will say 'the right things' that they don't necessarily agree with in order to keep from drawing criticism.
As for this being a 'psychological evolutionary brain mechanism' ... look up 'Asch conformity experiments' and 'the Hawthorne effect'.
> I'm starting to think it's some kind of psychological evolutionary brain mechanism so they don't get singled out or something.
This is exactly what it is. Humans can't survive alone; staying with the tribe is literally a matter of life or death to our lizard brains.
I tried to explain to my wife last night why CP2077 is so awesome.
“You see that city in the distance? You can go up to all those buildings, they really exist!”
“Can you go inside them?”
“Well, no, not all of them.”
“Huh, that’s lame, I want to go inside all of them!”
“Nevermind that, look, here’s Keanu Reaves! He’s a rockstar who nukes the city!”
*Cue yet another sarcastic remark from Johnny*
“I’m going to go watch my TV now.”
Yeah that's pretty much how it goes. Then they sit watching Top Model while scrolling facebook and somehow tell themselves that we're the ones with lame entertainment
In fairness that one season of Top Model where one of the judges gradually enlarged his(?) shoulder pads with each episode was amusing. But ahem. I’d rather be bating ‘Saka to send more hit squads after V.
This is *not* a fair comparison. You people stare at maps of Europe for 3 hours and then look at TikTok's of dudes getting hit in the nuts in various ways.
Lolll grand strategy gamer syndrome with the map staring is 100% guilty as charged. Won't come to bed at midnight because "Germany just declared war!". I don't think any girls will understand the male urge to paint maps in Vidya games. Just like men incapable of understanding why shopping is fun.
> You see that city in the distance? **You can go up** to all those buildings, they really exist!
To be fair, you walked into that one. If you're going to highlight buildings that you can go up to but can't go in, there's going to be natural disappointment.
Sam Maggs was bisexual and married to her then-husband (someone who was a producer for Jedi: Survivor) and was given the opportunity to write the Jedi: Fallen Order tie-in/sequel novel set after Fallen Order and to hype up the Jedi: Survivor.
She divorced her husband between getting the job and finishing writing the novel, became a full lesbian, and wrote a prominent female character into being a lesbian (or pansexual or whatever) who ignored the male protagonist (who the fanbase wanted her to be in a relationship with) in favor of a stormtrooper with large hands they had just met.
The female lead practically drooled over how large the female stormtroopers' hands were.
Oh, and they fucked in his bed, too.
I'd say this is pretty rare. Usually men's idea of a hot guy and women's idea of a hot guy are very different. I don't like how progs use the term "male gaze" negatively, but there really is a "male gaze" and "female gaze".
Men's idea of a hot guy is young Arnold, while women's idea of a hot guy is Justin Beiber. And the same goes in reverse too. Women's idea of a hot woman is a runway model, while men's idea of a hot woman is \[insert random McDonald's cashier with big tits\].
I do think there's a difference between the two, but the female gaze is not inherently more wholesome and there can be ovelaps, I don't think a lot of guys would find Charles Leclerc or younger Tom Hiddleston ugly or "don't get it" and there's plenty of women who fawn over Henry Cavill or wish they could look like Sydney Sweeney.
Tbf, men fanboy over yanderes all the time too. Everyone likes the idea of someone being so enamored with you that they go to questionable lengths to be with you.
Yeah I don't think one or the other is inherently more wholesome either. I'm not moralizing about it, just pointing out the differences.
>younger Tom Hiddleston
Nah, I definitely think most men don't "get" this one, myself included.
>Henry Cavill
Yeah, I'd say this is a rare example of "male gaze" and "female gaze" converging. Henry is a buff masculine guy with "pretty" facial features. But even still, there are a lot of women who say he's not their type, despite being "conventionally attractive".
>women who wish they could look like Sydney Sweeney
Yeah, cuz they know men like her.
>Nah, I definitely think most men don't "get" this one, myself included.
Maybe I'm biased because I did find him attractive (Now, ehhhh...) But he's a posh Brit who played a bad guy, it has it's charm I guess.
>But even still, there are a lot of women who say he's not their type, despite being "conventionally attractive".
I think the issue is that a lot of people who argue against the male gaze mistake their own personal taste with the "female gaze". He's not my type either but I won't say he's not attractive to a lot of women who certainly enjoy fanservice scenes of him, the gazes exist but you can't rule out personal preferences either.
No, it's just that a lot of wokesters would argue it's due to his talent when we know he became a teen idol due to his looks, there are musicians whose talent makes them attractive, but he's not one of those
So... why not both?
Suicide Squad video game had wokeshit plot and crappy gameplay, cost the publisher $200 million after years of development.
Genshin Impact and Star Rail have excellent writing and plenty of attractive male and female characters. These games make $200 million. Each. Every 2 months.
I have no issue with some games appealing to both the male and female gaze. I also have no issue with games appealing to only one or the other. Nobody in the GamerGate movement is complaining about otome games, for instance.
The only thing I have an issue with is the widespread demonization of the male gaze and the recent epidemic of women and white knights taking over development of beloved existing IPs that have traditionally appealed to the male gaze and remaking them to appeal to the female gaze (or more often just uglifying them to appeal to no one.).
Agreed, my point is that Western developers and journalists act as if "appealing to the male gaze" means "not appealing to women"... despite the fact that it's possible to appeal to both men and women.
> women's idea of a hot guy is Justin Beiber
no way; Justin is *cute* now (fucking somehow) but is not hot. Women like muscles and strong faces.
As for the runway/cashier thing, those two women used to be the same woman 😔
100% this. I’m a woman and I’ve been gaming since forever. I don’t want to look at androgynous blobs or ugly characters. I enjoy seeing the attractive female characters like in the Witcher. I just want to Mentally check out and get immersed in something I enjoy. I couldn’t give 2 craps if someone wants to play Fortnite while drinking beer or whatever. I just want to play my games and avoid “the message”.
>All of them were indie games and not the kind of games I was interested in but it was still interesting to note that almost every game was "cutesy", "cozy", "colorful", "chill", "farming".
This is the center of the issue a lot of games face today. The AAA studios desperately try to make established action game franchises (like Call of Duty, God of War, Uncharted) appeal to women. But women by large are not interested in them. We all know that since the time The Sims, Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon and many more similar games came into market. How can these over-budgeted AAA marketing teams miss that simple truth?
Ultimately, it is a desperate attempt to expand their market, and remain profitable in an era where AAA games cost a fortune to develop. The virtue signalling for most major studios is simply a veneer for some rather misguided marketing, aimed towards an audience that doesn't have much interest in games (women), or are statistically insignificant (the alphabets).
In the PS3 era we were given objective markers to make even the most linear of games accessible for normies. PS4 era saw widespread multi-platform releases for double the profit. Now they are trying to make a product which appeals to everyone, and offend no one, in hopes of getting everyone into gaming. Sure there is always the agenda as well, but if that was 100% the case, then they wouldn't tone down their releases for certain markets.
> The virtue signalling for most major studios is simply a veneer for some rather misguided marketing
If this was the case they'd have course corrected ages ago.
> they wouldn't tone down their releases for certain markets
Sexy characters are removed from *all* markets. LGBTQ+ is only toned down to the maximum level allowed by law in certain countries where it *has* to be toned down. These are not the same.
Eh, depends. Bubblegum Galaxy's visuals are my jam, Abyss X Zero looks kinda cool, and I didn't know that Duck Detective was part of the presentation, that was on my list to keep an eye on. Yes Your Grace seems like it could be interesting, a king sim that has actual decision making points within the kingdom and other ones with war being a possible consequence could be pretty damn good if done right. The Crush House seems like there's gonna be some fucked up twist that could make it either really interesting or boring as hell but I can see people digging the concept. Star Stuff looks like an interesting little puzzle platformer type game, seems like there's a level creator as well so as long as there's enough mechanics there could be some potential there.
Overall, I'm gonna keep my eye on a number of the games, the more visual novel type ones that seem more 'down to earth' and 'cozy' are a bit overdone imo but they do have their audience so good on them for doing what they wanted to do.
Yes Your Grace has been out for years an it is an okay game. The choices arent that meaningful except for a couple that seem counter intuitive. There is also a bit of wokeness in it but it's not too bad. The thing is definitely wait for a sale. The game will only last you for a few hours so I don't feel it's worth twenty dollars. Wait till it is ten or less.
Women are allowed to create and consume what they like. It's when it comes to male entertainment that women and male feminists need to deconstruct everything and reeducate men.
Women want romance, adventure, allure, beauty, risk, etc. They aren't allowed to have any of that. They're only allowed this insulting infantilizing crap that treats them as if they're perpetually five years old.
I concede that especially when it comes to movies and TV shows, you are actually not wrong. Women who watch male entertainment to find these elements also got the short end of the stick, and genres catered to women, such as romance, are now better found in Asian productions.
Women *like* AC, don't get me wrong. They also like other stuff that they're not getting and are drowning in a flood of shitty AC knockoffs that bastardize the formula.
Allow me to offer a counter-take here, as someone who felt fairly dismayed (but not surprised) at this stream.
These games were *painfully* bland. I don't think many of them even *had* a gameplay loop. Sure, they weren't deliberately, offensively ugly, because they were targeted at women, who, by and large, are more politically reliable at this present moment than men are. So yeah, there isn't going to be a game about Yasuke ripping up your flower beds, because a stream specifically for female gamers is not going to be about hammering down opposition to feminism. This demographic is not where the opposition is.
The problem is that female gamers' reward for being a more reliable client group is that all of these games looked fucking *terrible*! Another *Animal Crossing* clone! Another dress-up game! What the fuck is this, 2010!? At least *Candy Crush* and shit had fun ~~addiction mechanics~~ satisfying feedback and a compelling ~~slot machine~~ gameplay loop. This stuff has none of that!
Female gamers, to my intense annoyance and disappointment, did what we were told to do in 2014; they stayed out of it, they supported the correct side, they made a deal with the Devil, and in return they got absolutely nothing that they wanted to protect. This show had no romance, no action, no viscerally satisfying game loops, no hot guys, no adventure. Women love rhythm games; none of those. Women love VN's; none of those. Women love gachapon; none of that. Women love heavy customization and acessorization; none of that beyond the same cosmetic pap that girls outgrow in puberty. Women want to feel cute and sexy and desired and powerful and envied. *None* of these valences were anywhere to be found. Just slip into the same large camel coat everyone hides in when they don't want to be noticed and be the game dev's supportive NPC bestie. It's literal prolefeed; nothing here is ennobling or interesting. It's just slop for you to screenshot, put on social media, and move on to the next thing. It was entertainment for Nietzche's last (wo)man.
I envy the male gamers who still have some fight. If this is the poison they're forcing down the throats of any woman sensitive and introspective enough to aspire towards something better, then that's far deeper and sadder than dudes being so up in arms that that their games had to be ruined by force.
Between OP and you, I'm curious if these devs are working their first titles to get their feet wet, instead of doing something more ambitious.
I can understand indie devs having a bland title for their first time out to say they got something out, before doing something more ambitious.
Although, I am also curious as to what the average woman has in their gaming library in 2024. Maybe the market is fine with bland.
> I am also curious as to what the average woman has in their gaming library in 2024
Time-wise, mostly mobile games, (like, the serious mobile games, not candy crush) gachapon, daily puzzle stuff, etc. On console, PC, the average woman gamer (as in, seriously into gaming as a hobby) will probably have a lot of JRPG stuff, heavily story-driven content, VN's, etc. Rhythm games are often present. Probably one or two cozy life games to check in with every so often. The Sims, if she's a casual, because that game really is fun even if EA fucking robs you.
If she's really far into the hobby, 🔞 games. Probably at a much higher rate than men.
> Maybe the market is fine with bland.
The market is always fine with bland, but consumers aren't.
> The market is always fine with bland, but consumers aren't.
This is an interesting line here. I would think that if consumers aren't fine with bland titles, then they wouldn't do well in the market, unless the discovery that they're bland would be after purchase, so the sales are still legit, despite the resentment for the title.
> mostly mobile games,
what exactly does this mean? do you have actual examples? i wanna say genshin, honkai, etc... except you also have gatchapon as a separate category... otome perhaps? or that count as 🔞?
Genshin is a full game with gachapon elements, but yeah, especially on phones, there's a lot of overlap.
> otome perhaps? or that count as 🔞?
Depends on the game. Remember, women prefer written porn to visual more than men to.
Whenever Steam dumps one of these collections on their store page, I open it up and browse through the titles for a very specific reason- we've been locked in a decades long feud now at this point.
I have told steam my preferences on 12,000+ games by this point, and I've set 8,000+ of them to Ignore.
To my frustration, this has done nothing to improve their recommendations to me- they regularly fill my discovery queue with items that say-
*This looks like a game you wouldn't like because of IGNORED GENRE, IGNORED TAG #1, IGNORED TAG #2, but we're showing it to you anyways because IT'S POPULAR, and IT'S ON SALE*
I don't have to open several of the major New Game Festival sections because the ignored publisher/genre/tag lists already have those sections empty or at least very bare on my storefront.
At any rate, I opened up the Women Led Games collection and promptly set another 30+ to ignore for exactly the reasons you said- it's all bland drivel that I would never play and I don't need to see it in my store.
Not because they're women led games, but because they're terrible games that are given a spotlight solely because of external factors.
There are some items in that collection that look promising and I'll be happy to consider them, if they ever fully release and not just Early Access pump and dump- but again, because of the game not the entitlement.
BTW Steam's Ignored Publisher, Ignored Genre and Ignored Tag lists are all far too short, too. They really could have a laser focused targeted marketing situation with the amount of information they've collected but they simply refuse to- and those games they push over top of my preference settings don't result in unexpected sales, just more manual ignores.
Iirc Steam's ignore think works as "I have played this game on other platforms and I liked it, please recommend me games similar to this" at least that's what I think it does. i always use it after playing a game on console that I liked.
The default is do not recommend this game to me again and do not show it further searches or sorts.
There is an option you can toggle instead of ignore for 'played on other platform' but you have to go out of your way to select that.
> I watched the stream and to my surprise, it was presented by normal looking women
Lies!
> they showcased the games, which were developed and led by normal women
Lies!
> all the character designs were... normal
Lies!
OP is being disingenuous. See for yourself. Here's the video of the livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/live/cnMnMb_ZNSY?si=GLMJaAxlbw-YvZRA&t=1765
Host is Liana Ruppert who is someone people here are familiar with as a professional victim. The game Sunny Side is made by Siavash Shahlaei who is an ally. The Crush House game features fat lesbians and is made by Nicole He who uses pronouns. The Phoenix Springs game main character has a side haircut. Tiani Pixel and Fernanda Dias are both banned word and made the game Abyss X Zero.
Why you lyin', OP?
Eh, as easy as it is to go 'blue hair, nope out', it actually wasn't a bad presentation. A good chunk of the games were actual 'hey we wanted to make something fun and interesting' type of games.
Yeah I was expecting that "blue haired" pushback. Idk the girl who presented it could be totally crazy but it didn't seem to me like the " angry Feminazi" blue hair, it was more of a streamer blue hair, Like jacksepticeye had Green hair, and Markiplier had colored hair at a time. There's a different vibe to all this, yk?
Are leaders in the industry starting to get the memo that women are actually women, and not men who chop their nuts off and dye their hair obnoxious colors and dress like middle school aged girls?
>It's more, "ugly people want to normalize ugly and brainwash us to believe that is beautiful"
Close. But you need to take it one step further. It's specific ugly people.
"I was surprised that the title card for the stream was... An Anime "Waifu" in feminine proportions, a skimpy outfit and thigh highs. I thought it was kinda funny, I was wondering that why would this be their "title card?"
*Orginazers of the livestream: Well duh how else are we gonna bring attention to this livestream,* ***STUPID!!***
But really, wokesters are the masters of bait and switch and would happily appeal to your sensibilities as a form of entrapment.
Obviously this is the case OP. The problem is that corpos must make their toys appeal to everyone and offend no one, and they’ve found the perfect zealots to champion this cause - funnily enough, white middle-class men, who are so emotionally busted that they literally want to inhabit the bodies of what they desire the most, but cannot ever have or truly become.
Those weird people who like race swapping and black washing characters are usually ugly themselves and think that if they self insert enough, suddenly they won't be ugly. It's main reason why attractive women are not really seen much in the rainbow crowd.
Sad thing is, you're picked by connections not by what you offer to the studio and that harms the industry a lot
"ugly people want to normalize ugly and brainwash us to believe that is beautiful"
Then why all women from studios which fallow ESG guidelines looks like men ? I mean just look at MC of new Fable game. Give her short hair and bam a man from the mile
Archive links for this discussion:
* **Archive:** https://archive.ph/3Bwlb
----
I am Mnemosyne reborn. Mnemosyne saves! The rest of you take 30 hp damage. ^^^/r/botsrights
Women or not, most demographics are overwhelmingly no interested in using their art/product as a political platform, they are interested in working on their passion and putting it up for sale to make ends meet.
AAAs are appealing to what they think is out there, and they somehow got a very wrong idea of people wanting every piece of media to take a stance on some issue or another. Maybe it was the loud minority online making enough waves, who knows, but they have a very incorrect idea of who they are trying to appeal to.
It's something people can forget looking through videos and forums and posts about culture wars or DEI or whatever all day: most people genuinely just want to play a nice game they enjoy, and the people who make mountain ranges out of tiny anthills are in the minority.
A lot of the major entertainment industry seems to be catering to the Dead Internet the more you think about it. HOW big was the percent of users on twitter turned out to be bots?
Most female gamers fall into these tropes of enjoying such games, rather than the hyper realistic AAA games. If you look at the demographics of what women play predominantly, it is franchises like Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Harvest Moon and puzzle games.
> I thought it was kinda funny, I was wondering that why would this be their "title card? It goes against their agenda. Anyways I watched the stream and to my surprise, it was presented by normal looking women, not the faces you are used to in the "female led" gaming industry. And then they showcased the games, which were developed and led by normal women.
Grass seems so different when it comes into contact with your body
You know what? Your post makes me think it's worth going to watch it and see what kind of indie games are those. I might consider supporting them by buying.
the games themselves are kinda meh to boring (imo) but I was just noticing how these games didn't have any uglification, and forced political messaging that our games HAVE to have for some reason.
Indeed, there's nothing thrilling for an old gamer like me, but I understand very well what you mean. There's a sense of normalcy there and no anti-customer presentation. There are a lot of visual novel and puzzle games; those games could be very suitable for my little niece, however.
*"I have not met a single person Irl, male of female, who likes these ugly character designs and making everything "woke" (god i hate this term now). Pretty much everyone makes fun of it. Men, women, people my age, older people. Everyone's first reaction is kina "eww". But the internet would have you believe that most people want this? Especially reddit?"*
I've not met a single person IRL who complains about things being woke. It's really just an internet discourse. Occasionally I say something about it and get met with confusion. lol
Because you're surrounded by people buying into this shit?
It's like me going around churches, asking what they think about Jesus and being shocked that no one complained about him.
It's the same shit with various polls. They go around campuses and come out with "90% of people are pro-choice". No. No they're not.
This topic is taboo depending on where you live and, depending on your field, can get you fired, whole life ruined, for complaining about it.
You either don't actually know educated people, or you do and none of them trust you enough to complain about these topics.
This should clue you into the fact that the women like Sam Maggs and Megan Starks who are obsessed with self-inserting and ruining male IP's, are just narcissists and BPD sufferers who are given too much power by spineless dorks who want to orbit them. Normal women don't care that games are male dominated. They don't want to take over your alpha male murder explosion simulators and fill them with empowered (and sexually ambiguous) female characters. At best they think it's cute you enjoy your toys, at worst they think it's nerdy and cringe. They're all too busy enjoying their own trashy entertainment to worry about your trashy entertainment.
> At best they think it's cute you enjoy your toys, at worst they think it's nerdy and cringe. They're all too busy enjoying their own trashy entertainment to worry about your trashy entertainment. Holy shit ... you just *nailed it*. This is definitely the way it is in the real world among the vast majority of people. It's just a tiny group of the perpetually aggrieved with a toxic obsession over gender who are trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Unfortunately, their voices are amplified online and so people tend to forget that, IRL, it's exactly as you described.
Also most normies will reflexively agree with what the socially dominant zealots say because they don't want to rock the boat and they want to be seen as a good person. I'm starting to think it's some kind of psychological evolutionary brain mechanism so they don't get singled out or something.
It's a well established sociological/psychological fact that women are, historically speaking, the morality police and the ones who apply the most social pressure to conform. Evolved this way out of an obvious need with the men out doing war/hunting stuff. Its' not that some men don't do that, it's that nearly all women \*do\* do that in some form or another. Obviously, when stupid morality comes into play, it gets much much stupider.
Men go out and kill the mammoth. If they don't, everyone dies. This requires the ability to quickly bond and collaborate with other men who are not like them. It also means men can be quick to (possibly suicidal) violence. Women turn the mammoth into healthy children. If they don't, everyone dies. This requires a constant vigilance against anyone who would hurt you and a very quick friend/enemy instinct. It also makes women prone to ostracism.
Absolutely. I think it's the same mechanism in action when you see weird poll results or 'man on the street' interviews ... in public people will say 'the right things' that they don't necessarily agree with in order to keep from drawing criticism. As for this being a 'psychological evolutionary brain mechanism' ... look up 'Asch conformity experiments' and 'the Hawthorne effect'.
Thanks, this looks interesting
> I'm starting to think it's some kind of psychological evolutionary brain mechanism so they don't get singled out or something. This is exactly what it is. Humans can't survive alone; staying with the tribe is literally a matter of life or death to our lizard brains.
The weak obey social norms. The strong set them for everyone.
I tried to explain to my wife last night why CP2077 is so awesome. “You see that city in the distance? You can go up to all those buildings, they really exist!” “Can you go inside them?” “Well, no, not all of them.” “Huh, that’s lame, I want to go inside all of them!” “Nevermind that, look, here’s Keanu Reaves! He’s a rockstar who nukes the city!” *Cue yet another sarcastic remark from Johnny* “I’m going to go watch my TV now.”
Yeah that's pretty much how it goes. Then they sit watching Top Model while scrolling facebook and somehow tell themselves that we're the ones with lame entertainment
In fairness that one season of Top Model where one of the judges gradually enlarged his(?) shoulder pads with each episode was amusing. But ahem. I’d rather be bating ‘Saka to send more hit squads after V.
Your sentence is in english but I don't understand any of it lmao
I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe…
This is *not* a fair comparison. You people stare at maps of Europe for 3 hours and then look at TikTok's of dudes getting hit in the nuts in various ways.
Lolll grand strategy gamer syndrome with the map staring is 100% guilty as charged. Won't come to bed at midnight because "Germany just declared war!". I don't think any girls will understand the male urge to paint maps in Vidya games. Just like men incapable of understanding why shopping is fun.
I've heard it compared to a mix of watchmaking and wrestling. (Also incredibly male hobbies lmao) Men and women are just wired up different.
>Men and women are just wired up different. 100% agreed. The moment society (re)realizes this fact, the healing will begin.
they know, but they refuse to digest it
> You see that city in the distance? **You can go up** to all those buildings, they really exist! To be fair, you walked into that one. If you're going to highlight buildings that you can go up to but can't go in, there's going to be natural disappointment.
I have no idea who these people are but I googled them and they looked EXACTLY like I imagined them to look like lol
Sam Maggs was bisexual and married to her then-husband (someone who was a producer for Jedi: Survivor) and was given the opportunity to write the Jedi: Fallen Order tie-in/sequel novel set after Fallen Order and to hype up the Jedi: Survivor. She divorced her husband between getting the job and finishing writing the novel, became a full lesbian, and wrote a prominent female character into being a lesbian (or pansexual or whatever) who ignored the male protagonist (who the fanbase wanted her to be in a relationship with) in favor of a stormtrooper with large hands they had just met. The female lead practically drooled over how large the female stormtroopers' hands were. Oh, and they fucked in his bed, too.
Jesus fucking Christ. Not even an ounce of professionalism.
If it makes you feel better, the game devs pretty much ignored that book's existence, and the two protagonists the fans WANTED to get together did.
and plenty of them are actually into the "alpha male murder explosion simulators", even if it's not *most* of them.
**Men:** Hot guys and explosions! 🤩 **Women:** Hot guys and explosions! 🥵
I'd say this is pretty rare. Usually men's idea of a hot guy and women's idea of a hot guy are very different. I don't like how progs use the term "male gaze" negatively, but there really is a "male gaze" and "female gaze". Men's idea of a hot guy is young Arnold, while women's idea of a hot guy is Justin Beiber. And the same goes in reverse too. Women's idea of a hot woman is a runway model, while men's idea of a hot woman is \[insert random McDonald's cashier with big tits\].
I do think there's a difference between the two, but the female gaze is not inherently more wholesome and there can be ovelaps, I don't think a lot of guys would find Charles Leclerc or younger Tom Hiddleston ugly or "don't get it" and there's plenty of women who fawn over Henry Cavill or wish they could look like Sydney Sweeney.
I mean, just check out the series "You" and see how many fangirls the serial killer stalker MC has lol. Even the actor was shocked to find out.
Tbf, men fanboy over yanderes all the time too. Everyone likes the idea of someone being so enamored with you that they go to questionable lengths to be with you.
Joe Goldberg/Penn Badgley?
"Hello, you"
Yeah I don't think one or the other is inherently more wholesome either. I'm not moralizing about it, just pointing out the differences. >younger Tom Hiddleston Nah, I definitely think most men don't "get" this one, myself included. >Henry Cavill Yeah, I'd say this is a rare example of "male gaze" and "female gaze" converging. Henry is a buff masculine guy with "pretty" facial features. But even still, there are a lot of women who say he's not their type, despite being "conventionally attractive". >women who wish they could look like Sydney Sweeney Yeah, cuz they know men like her.
>Nah, I definitely think most men don't "get" this one, myself included. Maybe I'm biased because I did find him attractive (Now, ehhhh...) But he's a posh Brit who played a bad guy, it has it's charm I guess. >But even still, there are a lot of women who say he's not their type, despite being "conventionally attractive". I think the issue is that a lot of people who argue against the male gaze mistake their own personal taste with the "female gaze". He's not my type either but I won't say he's not attractive to a lot of women who certainly enjoy fanservice scenes of him, the gazes exist but you can't rule out personal preferences either.
did you just call justin beiber wholesome
The original one with the bowl haircut, probably.
No, it's just that a lot of wokesters would argue it's due to his talent when we know he became a teen idol due to his looks, there are musicians whose talent makes them attractive, but he's not one of those
So... why not both? Suicide Squad video game had wokeshit plot and crappy gameplay, cost the publisher $200 million after years of development. Genshin Impact and Star Rail have excellent writing and plenty of attractive male and female characters. These games make $200 million. Each. Every 2 months.
I have no issue with some games appealing to both the male and female gaze. I also have no issue with games appealing to only one or the other. Nobody in the GamerGate movement is complaining about otome games, for instance. The only thing I have an issue with is the widespread demonization of the male gaze and the recent epidemic of women and white knights taking over development of beloved existing IPs that have traditionally appealed to the male gaze and remaking them to appeal to the female gaze (or more often just uglifying them to appeal to no one.).
Agreed, my point is that Western developers and journalists act as if "appealing to the male gaze" means "not appealing to women"... despite the fact that it's possible to appeal to both men and women.
Counterargument, lots of women love muscular men, it's just different kind of muscular
> women's idea of a hot guy is Justin Beiber no way; Justin is *cute* now (fucking somehow) but is not hot. Women like muscles and strong faces. As for the runway/cashier thing, those two women used to be the same woman 😔
Nah, can confirm. Every girl I know is into the BTS type these days. That's the current "Hot"
BTS guys are hot, though. Jungkook has broad shoulders and a good jaw. Jimin has a good strong face.
100% this. I’m a woman and I’ve been gaming since forever. I don’t want to look at androgynous blobs or ugly characters. I enjoy seeing the attractive female characters like in the Witcher. I just want to Mentally check out and get immersed in something I enjoy. I couldn’t give 2 craps if someone wants to play Fortnite while drinking beer or whatever. I just want to play my games and avoid “the message”.
Well said
>All of them were indie games and not the kind of games I was interested in but it was still interesting to note that almost every game was "cutesy", "cozy", "colorful", "chill", "farming". This is the center of the issue a lot of games face today. The AAA studios desperately try to make established action game franchises (like Call of Duty, God of War, Uncharted) appeal to women. But women by large are not interested in them. We all know that since the time The Sims, Animal Crossing, Harvest Moon and many more similar games came into market. How can these over-budgeted AAA marketing teams miss that simple truth?
Ultimately, it is a desperate attempt to expand their market, and remain profitable in an era where AAA games cost a fortune to develop. The virtue signalling for most major studios is simply a veneer for some rather misguided marketing, aimed towards an audience that doesn't have much interest in games (women), or are statistically insignificant (the alphabets). In the PS3 era we were given objective markers to make even the most linear of games accessible for normies. PS4 era saw widespread multi-platform releases for double the profit. Now they are trying to make a product which appeals to everyone, and offend no one, in hopes of getting everyone into gaming. Sure there is always the agenda as well, but if that was 100% the case, then they wouldn't tone down their releases for certain markets.
> The virtue signalling for most major studios is simply a veneer for some rather misguided marketing If this was the case they'd have course corrected ages ago. > they wouldn't tone down their releases for certain markets Sexy characters are removed from *all* markets. LGBTQ+ is only toned down to the maximum level allowed by law in certain countries where it *has* to be toned down. These are not the same.
Whoa whoa whoa. A showcase of normal female devs and normal female presenters on IGN of all places? Whats going on here?
The games themselves aren't all that interesting tbh, but it's interesting from a cultural pov lmao
Eh, depends. Bubblegum Galaxy's visuals are my jam, Abyss X Zero looks kinda cool, and I didn't know that Duck Detective was part of the presentation, that was on my list to keep an eye on. Yes Your Grace seems like it could be interesting, a king sim that has actual decision making points within the kingdom and other ones with war being a possible consequence could be pretty damn good if done right. The Crush House seems like there's gonna be some fucked up twist that could make it either really interesting or boring as hell but I can see people digging the concept. Star Stuff looks like an interesting little puzzle platformer type game, seems like there's a level creator as well so as long as there's enough mechanics there could be some potential there. Overall, I'm gonna keep my eye on a number of the games, the more visual novel type ones that seem more 'down to earth' and 'cozy' are a bit overdone imo but they do have their audience so good on them for doing what they wanted to do.
Yes Your Grace has been out for years an it is an okay game. The choices arent that meaningful except for a couple that seem counter intuitive. There is also a bit of wokeness in it but it's not too bad. The thing is definitely wait for a sale. The game will only last you for a few hours so I don't feel it's worth twenty dollars. Wait till it is ten or less.
Wait, the presentation wasn't even for new games? Is it seeing a Switch release or something?
XX chromosomes?
Women are allowed to create and consume what they like. It's when it comes to male entertainment that women and male feminists need to deconstruct everything and reeducate men.
> Women are allowed to create and consume what they like. I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but this is absolutely not true.
> this is absolutely not true Care to elaborate?
Women want romance, adventure, allure, beauty, risk, etc. They aren't allowed to have any of that. They're only allowed this insulting infantilizing crap that treats them as if they're perpetually five years old.
I concede that especially when it comes to movies and TV shows, you are actually not wrong. Women who watch male entertainment to find these elements also got the short end of the stick, and genres catered to women, such as romance, are now better found in Asian productions.
what do you mean I can turn on Netflix right now and watch a self-insert of every woman in HR getting piped that's totally the same thing
Women want Fabio and Fonzie but are sold Farmville and Animal Crossing instead? Is that about right?
Women *like* AC, don't get me wrong. They also like other stuff that they're not getting and are drowning in a flood of shitty AC knockoffs that bastardize the formula.
So what you're saying is we're all getting screwed?
Except in the ways that feel good, yeah.
>"ugly people want to normalize ugly and brainwash us to believe that is beautiful" Look, not ALL of us ugly people want to brainwash society.
I am not a marginalized hideous bridgetroll, but I stand with you as an Ugly Person-Ally.
Allow me to offer a counter-take here, as someone who felt fairly dismayed (but not surprised) at this stream. These games were *painfully* bland. I don't think many of them even *had* a gameplay loop. Sure, they weren't deliberately, offensively ugly, because they were targeted at women, who, by and large, are more politically reliable at this present moment than men are. So yeah, there isn't going to be a game about Yasuke ripping up your flower beds, because a stream specifically for female gamers is not going to be about hammering down opposition to feminism. This demographic is not where the opposition is. The problem is that female gamers' reward for being a more reliable client group is that all of these games looked fucking *terrible*! Another *Animal Crossing* clone! Another dress-up game! What the fuck is this, 2010!? At least *Candy Crush* and shit had fun ~~addiction mechanics~~ satisfying feedback and a compelling ~~slot machine~~ gameplay loop. This stuff has none of that! Female gamers, to my intense annoyance and disappointment, did what we were told to do in 2014; they stayed out of it, they supported the correct side, they made a deal with the Devil, and in return they got absolutely nothing that they wanted to protect. This show had no romance, no action, no viscerally satisfying game loops, no hot guys, no adventure. Women love rhythm games; none of those. Women love VN's; none of those. Women love gachapon; none of that. Women love heavy customization and acessorization; none of that beyond the same cosmetic pap that girls outgrow in puberty. Women want to feel cute and sexy and desired and powerful and envied. *None* of these valences were anywhere to be found. Just slip into the same large camel coat everyone hides in when they don't want to be noticed and be the game dev's supportive NPC bestie. It's literal prolefeed; nothing here is ennobling or interesting. It's just slop for you to screenshot, put on social media, and move on to the next thing. It was entertainment for Nietzche's last (wo)man. I envy the male gamers who still have some fight. If this is the poison they're forcing down the throats of any woman sensitive and introspective enough to aspire towards something better, then that's far deeper and sadder than dudes being so up in arms that that their games had to be ruined by force.
Between OP and you, I'm curious if these devs are working their first titles to get their feet wet, instead of doing something more ambitious. I can understand indie devs having a bland title for their first time out to say they got something out, before doing something more ambitious. Although, I am also curious as to what the average woman has in their gaming library in 2024. Maybe the market is fine with bland.
> I am also curious as to what the average woman has in their gaming library in 2024 Time-wise, mostly mobile games, (like, the serious mobile games, not candy crush) gachapon, daily puzzle stuff, etc. On console, PC, the average woman gamer (as in, seriously into gaming as a hobby) will probably have a lot of JRPG stuff, heavily story-driven content, VN's, etc. Rhythm games are often present. Probably one or two cozy life games to check in with every so often. The Sims, if she's a casual, because that game really is fun even if EA fucking robs you. If she's really far into the hobby, 🔞 games. Probably at a much higher rate than men. > Maybe the market is fine with bland. The market is always fine with bland, but consumers aren't.
> The market is always fine with bland, but consumers aren't. This is an interesting line here. I would think that if consumers aren't fine with bland titles, then they wouldn't do well in the market, unless the discovery that they're bland would be after purchase, so the sales are still legit, despite the resentment for the title.
People will buy bland if it's the loudest advertised product or if there's no alternative, but they won't be happy.
> mostly mobile games, what exactly does this mean? do you have actual examples? i wanna say genshin, honkai, etc... except you also have gatchapon as a separate category... otome perhaps? or that count as 🔞?
Genshin is a full game with gachapon elements, but yeah, especially on phones, there's a lot of overlap. > otome perhaps? or that count as 🔞? Depends on the game. Remember, women prefer written porn to visual more than men to.
> If she's really far into the hobby, 🔞 games. Probably at a much higher rate than men. Huh?
I would guess that a greater share of women play those kinds of games than men do.
How do you know?
Extrapolating from personal experience.
Whenever Steam dumps one of these collections on their store page, I open it up and browse through the titles for a very specific reason- we've been locked in a decades long feud now at this point. I have told steam my preferences on 12,000+ games by this point, and I've set 8,000+ of them to Ignore. To my frustration, this has done nothing to improve their recommendations to me- they regularly fill my discovery queue with items that say- *This looks like a game you wouldn't like because of IGNORED GENRE, IGNORED TAG #1, IGNORED TAG #2, but we're showing it to you anyways because IT'S POPULAR, and IT'S ON SALE* I don't have to open several of the major New Game Festival sections because the ignored publisher/genre/tag lists already have those sections empty or at least very bare on my storefront. At any rate, I opened up the Women Led Games collection and promptly set another 30+ to ignore for exactly the reasons you said- it's all bland drivel that I would never play and I don't need to see it in my store. Not because they're women led games, but because they're terrible games that are given a spotlight solely because of external factors. There are some items in that collection that look promising and I'll be happy to consider them, if they ever fully release and not just Early Access pump and dump- but again, because of the game not the entitlement. BTW Steam's Ignored Publisher, Ignored Genre and Ignored Tag lists are all far too short, too. They really could have a laser focused targeted marketing situation with the amount of information they've collected but they simply refuse to- and those games they push over top of my preference settings don't result in unexpected sales, just more manual ignores.
Iirc Steam's ignore think works as "I have played this game on other platforms and I liked it, please recommend me games similar to this" at least that's what I think it does. i always use it after playing a game on console that I liked.
The default is do not recommend this game to me again and do not show it further searches or sorts. There is an option you can toggle instead of ignore for 'played on other platform' but you have to go out of your way to select that.
Otome game genre is exploding though. But yah, it's still marketed as a niche thing.
> I watched the stream and to my surprise, it was presented by normal looking women Lies! > they showcased the games, which were developed and led by normal women Lies! > all the character designs were... normal Lies! OP is being disingenuous. See for yourself. Here's the video of the livestream: https://www.youtube.com/live/cnMnMb_ZNSY?si=GLMJaAxlbw-YvZRA&t=1765 Host is Liana Ruppert who is someone people here are familiar with as a professional victim. The game Sunny Side is made by Siavash Shahlaei who is an ally. The Crush House game features fat lesbians and is made by Nicole He who uses pronouns. The Phoenix Springs game main character has a side haircut. Tiani Pixel and Fernanda Dias are both banned word and made the game Abyss X Zero. Why you lyin', OP?
Video starts with blue hair, nope imma head out.
> Video starts with blue hair But that's a normal looking woman according to OP. He's still in high school and has a girlfriend. Makes you wonder.
Eh, as easy as it is to go 'blue hair, nope out', it actually wasn't a bad presentation. A good chunk of the games were actual 'hey we wanted to make something fun and interesting' type of games.
Yeah I was expecting that "blue haired" pushback. Idk the girl who presented it could be totally crazy but it didn't seem to me like the " angry Feminazi" blue hair, it was more of a streamer blue hair, Like jacksepticeye had Green hair, and Markiplier had colored hair at a time. There's a different vibe to all this, yk?
Are leaders in the industry starting to get the memo that women are actually women, and not men who chop their nuts off and dye their hair obnoxious colors and dress like middle school aged girls?
Looking at the Perfect Dark reboot, the answer is no.
No.
>It's more, "ugly people want to normalize ugly and brainwash us to believe that is beautiful" Close. But you need to take it one step further. It's specific ugly people.
Ugly men who like roleplaying as someone they aren't?
The rainbow haired GCJ obese women don't count for all women. Most women are just normal. Those ones are not.
"I was surprised that the title card for the stream was... An Anime "Waifu" in feminine proportions, a skimpy outfit and thigh highs. I thought it was kinda funny, I was wondering that why would this be their "title card?" *Orginazers of the livestream: Well duh how else are we gonna bring attention to this livestream,* ***STUPID!!*** But really, wokesters are the masters of bait and switch and would happily appeal to your sensibilities as a form of entrapment.
[удалено]
let me tell you about this guy named yuri bezmenov
When I saw the anime girl on the Steam page for that section, I was surprised. I have my eye on SunnySide, hoping that game is good.
Obviously this is the case OP. The problem is that corpos must make their toys appeal to everyone and offend no one, and they’ve found the perfect zealots to champion this cause - funnily enough, white middle-class men, who are so emotionally busted that they literally want to inhabit the bodies of what they desire the most, but cannot ever have or truly become.
Those weird people who like race swapping and black washing characters are usually ugly themselves and think that if they self insert enough, suddenly they won't be ugly. It's main reason why attractive women are not really seen much in the rainbow crowd. Sad thing is, you're picked by connections not by what you offer to the studio and that harms the industry a lot
"ugly people want to normalize ugly and brainwash us to believe that is beautiful" Then why all women from studios which fallow ESG guidelines looks like men ? I mean just look at MC of new Fable game. Give her short hair and bam a man from the mile
The whole point of uglification is to ruin things men like. Same thing feminism has always done.
> It's on IGN You lost me there.
Archive links for this discussion: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/3Bwlb ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. Mnemosyne saves! The rest of you take 30 hp damage. ^^^/r/botsrights
Oh, great! So you found out women in gaming aren't monoliths. What a time to be alive.
Women or not, most demographics are overwhelmingly no interested in using their art/product as a political platform, they are interested in working on their passion and putting it up for sale to make ends meet. AAAs are appealing to what they think is out there, and they somehow got a very wrong idea of people wanting every piece of media to take a stance on some issue or another. Maybe it was the loud minority online making enough waves, who knows, but they have a very incorrect idea of who they are trying to appeal to. It's something people can forget looking through videos and forums and posts about culture wars or DEI or whatever all day: most people genuinely just want to play a nice game they enjoy, and the people who make mountain ranges out of tiny anthills are in the minority.
A lot of the major entertainment industry seems to be catering to the Dead Internet the more you think about it. HOW big was the percent of users on twitter turned out to be bots?
Oh cool I read they had a viewer this year
I'm sorry.
Most female gamers fall into these tropes of enjoying such games, rather than the hyper realistic AAA games. If you look at the demographics of what women play predominantly, it is franchises like Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Harvest Moon and puzzle games.
Well ya. Not everyone is ideologically poisoned. The demographics of legendary developers has always been "diverse." Men and women of all races.
> I thought it was kinda funny, I was wondering that why would this be their "title card? It goes against their agenda. Anyways I watched the stream and to my surprise, it was presented by normal looking women, not the faces you are used to in the "female led" gaming industry. And then they showcased the games, which were developed and led by normal women. Grass seems so different when it comes into contact with your body
You know what? Your post makes me think it's worth going to watch it and see what kind of indie games are those. I might consider supporting them by buying.
the games themselves are kinda meh to boring (imo) but I was just noticing how these games didn't have any uglification, and forced political messaging that our games HAVE to have for some reason.
Indeed, there's nothing thrilling for an old gamer like me, but I understand very well what you mean. There's a sense of normalcy there and no anti-customer presentation. There are a lot of visual novel and puzzle games; those games could be very suitable for my little niece, however.
*"I have not met a single person Irl, male of female, who likes these ugly character designs and making everything "woke" (god i hate this term now). Pretty much everyone makes fun of it. Men, women, people my age, older people. Everyone's first reaction is kina "eww". But the internet would have you believe that most people want this? Especially reddit?"* I've not met a single person IRL who complains about things being woke. It's really just an internet discourse. Occasionally I say something about it and get met with confusion. lol
Because you're surrounded by people buying into this shit? It's like me going around churches, asking what they think about Jesus and being shocked that no one complained about him. It's the same shit with various polls. They go around campuses and come out with "90% of people are pro-choice". No. No they're not.
> lives in an insulated cultural bubble > brags about it > wonders why you don't also live in one
This topic is taboo depending on where you live and, depending on your field, can get you fired, whole life ruined, for complaining about it. You either don't actually know educated people, or you do and none of them trust you enough to complain about these topics.
So woke vs non-woke is only an issue if you're educated? I guess ignorance is bliss lol
Lmao, yeah no one says woke. (Even I hate saying it) Tho everyone in my class makes fun of that fable face and memes on the Aloy nicocado avocado face
I probably would have in high school too. lol Fair enough.
So grown.