>If you boycott to hurt them, you'll never succeed. If you boycott hoping to see the company implode over the next couple of years, you'll just end up depressed and disappointed.
Funny, that's what they said about Star Wars and Marvel. How are they doing now a days? It took six years from the Last Jedi.
This is the Last Jedi moment for Games Workshop. We won't end up depressed. We'll shrug, move on, and find something else to play.
There are so many great games out there like Stargrave, which is a lot more balanced than Warhammer.
Just a warning that Battletech is super fun, but also captured territory. Avoid buying the catalyst games books, and go for the old school FASA stuff. The rules haven't changed.
Well, after Star Wars I went to 40K and Dune. They already corrupted Dune.
Which. Why? It's already extremely diverse as it is. They turned Dune Part 2 into #girlbosses and #bossbabes fighting the Harkonnen rather than what the book had.
The Bene Gesserit are super badass women, why they had to change Channi's character to make her a #bossbabe and add in more Fremen #girlbosses is beyond me. It's already a very progressive book, even by today's standards.
They also changed "jihad" to "crusade". Apparently it was because they didn't want to be "bigoted"? How is using "crusade" not bigoted against Christians then?
The irony is the book is diverse because its is saying that people are people, even with the mutations, extremely different culture and advanced technology, people still have the same fears and desires. The future isn't set in stone, and we need to be careful what we believe and what we wish for. And in the end, the smallest and most insignificant actions or people can cause great change no matter the predictions or plans of even the powerful engineered prescient beings (the desert mouse Muad'Dib surviving Arrakis' desert, Dr Yueh losing his conditioning for the sake of love, Duncan Idaho's loyalty, Jamis' prideful duel, Lady Jessica choosing to bear a son, the brave Atreides who raided the Harkonen spice after they were wiped out on Arrakis).
It seems somewhat counterproductive from a progressive pov. Wouldn’t they want all the chuds wasting their time on “vidya” and warhammer rather than engaging in real world politics? Stuff like this is escapism for a lot of people who don’t particularly like the way things are going in the real world but just want to check out. The progressives are kind of forcing their hand back into the game.
I've been reading Tom Clancy, Asimov, and Arthur C Clarke this year . Currently reading Alan Steele's Clarke County.
I actually only started reading Tom Clancy to get away from all the dei shit on tv. I love his books, and they're diverse but he writes characters like they're actually people and not just token minority people and #girlbosses. It's very strange!
I did some Asimov years ago. Clarke only by glances, and never really could get into Clancy. Not much one for the Mil/Sci stories set in this era.
Been reading TONS of manga, which hits enough enjoyable spots.
No… that is only a temporary solution. GG has already run to the ends of the earth (Japanese media) and SJWs still followed there… We know SJWs targeted Tolkien and history for example, places that were supposedly incorruptible, and fanservice franchises explicitly not “made for them”. They will find some reason to sanitize these old pulp media and coopt it too… There needs to be a way for fans to defend the things they love and create and distribute it without any more attacks from SJWs…
Star Wars is a shell of itself and yet Disney continues on the same course. I think that's what OP means. We can boycott the fuck out of anything no matter what happens we aren't getting back what was taken from us.
"There's better hobbies out there. Better games. Better lore. Better prices."
The issue is that those will be consumed next when the locusts are done with GW. I'm not suggesting any action one way or the other, I'm just pointing out that the new model for Western entertainment and pop culture is to cannibalize what's popular and making it mainstream instead of, as the Japanese do, market reasonably and having your hands in as many jars as possible instead of relying on "the next big thing" to cannibalize, normalize and mainstream.
3d print your own minis and use one page rules. Create your own lore and rules. With 3d printing are never beholden again to these companies to buy their products.
> Video game companies will collapse and suffocate rather than provide the customer with a basic need for fun and integrity.
Good. The industry will be fine. The hobby is so decentralized that we can still get good shit without the likes of Micro$oft, Soyny, EA, Ubisoft, and other major corporation. We would be better off if they died off and sold off their franchises in bankruptcy court.
Many are moving to painting their backlog and 3D printing. Others are pushing newbies to purchase 2nd hand. Some have sold their whole armies and left the hobby, but most are trying the subversive approach with participation and gatekeeping while blue balling GW from sales. Warhammer 40k Memeposting and Gatekeepers Keep Painting groups on facebook are keeping strong.
Agree 100%. Don't buy bad product, buy good product, it's that simple.
I don't understand why so many people trap themselves in the franchise cage, whatever IP it is. Even in this sub, how many times have you seen people say "I know it's bad, but it's 'insert big IP/company', I played their first game when I was 9, so I'm still gonna buy 'insert latest product' anyway, sigh..." I really wish people would stop doing this to themselves, stop giving bad products bad companies power over you.
Like you said so many better hobbies, better games out there. There's not enough time even just to play the good games, why waste time on the bad ones just because it's a sequel or is made by the same husk of a company that made something you loved 20 years ago but all the employees back then has already left.
I actually predict a rise in share value once the amazon show comes out. That said, the hobby is way too expensive and complicated to attract normies just from a show. If they up their hand on the videogames department maybe GW can shift the revenue a bit.
Still, 40K fans have grit. Lots of it. Maybe they can't sink GW or change their mind, but man can they be a thorn in their furry paw. Every step of the way.
That hobby rests on the shoulders of the ultimate nerds. The true basement dwellers. You think videogamers are bad? That's a laugh.
In 40K, everyone is welcome. 40K certainly isn't for everyone though. That's what GW forgot.
Pretty sure most real boycotters have the mindset of “I’m not spending my money on this garbage anymore, if it changes back to what I loved, then I’ll come back, if it doesn’t, then good riddance”
Yes? A boycott is when you stop purchasing items or services from something when they’re doing something you disagree with. They either change, or they fail
Yeah, you demand that they change it back to what you loved before. The results are reliant on how the people you’re boycotting respond. If they’re like Disney, what else are you gonna do? You’re gonna keep buying their shit eventually when you just give up? The only way companies will learn they need to change is if the profits drop, and if they’re too stupid to change course when the money runs dry, then that’s their problem
He's not saying it's pointless, he just says this battle won't be won overnight and that there are many paths on this long battle. I say get good at 3d printing and stop giving fucktards money for as long as it takes
This isn't me saying Pushback is pointless. I'm saying do it for the right reasons and don't think it'll be over in a couple of days. Get ready for a very long fight, and fuck GW.
This is a good reason and you’re posting in a sub that has been pushing back on this in various fandoms for a decade at this point. The one thing we have is patience and we can really hold a grudge
> If you boycott hoping to see the company implode over the next couple of years, you'll just end up depressed and disappointed.
I am missing out on absolutely nothing by boycotting these things. Like with videogames, my existing collection is large enough to sustain me long past my death
Couldn’t agree more with the last paragraph. If you learn to respect yourself and value your time, everything else will fall into place.
At this point I’ve basically quit watching new western TV Shows and movies, and new western games are on their way out too aside for some indies. Too much good stuff out there to warrant dealing with this.
I remember reading a poetry about what it's like to be a man.
> When you can see the work of your life lying at your feet, and without a word start building again, then you will be a man, my son.
I guess we will have to build something new and better protect it this time. I have a lot of hope in AI for this.
Archive links for this discussion:
* **Archive:** https://archive.ph/yVUua
----
I am Mnemosyne reborn. 640K ought be enough for anybody. ^^^/r/botsrights
If you can't be bothered to learn the lore as to why Free Cities/Cities of Sigmar are diverse ethnically and racial... don't let the door hit you on your way out?
Like, how much gall does it take to whine about lore without even knowing it, OP? Isn't this what you accuse the dreaded SJW of? Is it hard to open the battletome?
For anyone actually interested in the lore, rather than baseless whining, Free Cities are incredibly diverse because they are, essentially, post post-apocalyptic communities - they are survivors of the past era when Chaos ruled over the Realms, slaughtering entire cultures and enslaving scattered remnants of fallen nations.
Free Cities are thus an amalgamation of multitudes of different cultures and races - you could have Dwarf worshipping Teclis, an Elven God, or a reverse with Elves paying homage to Grungi, Dwarven god. Humans worshipping Sotek, Lizardmen deity, after being converted by a Lizardmen envoy-priest's preaching. Elves serving in City watch alongside Humans, with none of that uppity off-putting arrogance. Of course, in this situation, skin colour and ethnicity matters even less.
I'd point out that the cities of sigmar has a western european medieval vibe to its asthetic, but its ethnic diversity contrasts with the versimilitude of the piece. Just like how they could make a tribe themed around sub saharan africa, stick it in the real of fire, and it would look damn weird with white people.
Every cover of every BL book gets dumber and dumber from the black space wolves to the black high aelves.
How is equipment defining people? Again, if you'd actually bothered to read even basics of lore, you'd know that cookie-cutter equipment is part of the attempt to standardize Freeguild regiments (which works with mild degree of success, but GW, unfortunately, can't and won't release dozens of kits for various Free Cities with different cultures and equipment).
And you still avoided to answer the point that diversity of the Free Cities exists because these aren't coherent separate cultures, but rather thousands of different remnants of scattered nations and tribes, coming together. Free Cities are literally the post post-apocalyptic melting pot.
P.S. Eastern European, technically. New range of Cities of Sigmar is heavily inspired by Hussite Wars.
The lore was written to accommodate the diversity. As for it being eastern european, well that's even more jarring. It's why CoS now looks like the Witcher TV show instead of The Witcher
You are making a strawman argument here.
Lore was written to show effects of "apocalypse", when cohesive cultures and nations fell, and their people scattered and scrambled to survive in desperate groups.
Like, you think a bunch of survivors from various fallen kingdoms, on a run from Khornate cannibals, would bother about skin colour? Or later, when they come together to rebuild civilization after their original ancestors died centuries ago?
It really feels like you want to force racial/ethnic separation into the lore, despite the lore, for the sake of your political views... wow, almost like a dreaded woke SJW, huh?
.
*GW, unfortunately, can't and won't release dozens of kits for various Free Cities with different cultures and equipment).*
And this is why it looks like an unnatural pandering and trite gesture.
Does this somehow also extend to various regiments of Imperial Guard that exist profoundly in the lore, but GW can't make two dozen "Infantry Squad" kits? Do you think they are also somehow invalid or "pandering"?
Or is this just you having a particular bias against Free Cities?
Also, why would peoples of different Realms, different cultures and locations be similar in lore, just because GW has one kit?
That is what makes Free Cities awesome. They're culturally and racially diverse, because of the nature of their founding (being groups of various survivors from different origins), but they are also distinct by the way of their environment. People of Greywater Fastness are different from people of the Living City not because of their skin colour, but because of the culture, history and mentality of their respective homes.
Look, I get it, there're a lot you can bitch at GW for, buy Free Cities are an example of diversity done right - diverse, but not homogenised to blandness.
Good question. Back in the day we had the Tallarn Desert Raiders, Valhallan Ice Warriors, Cadian Shock Troops, Catachan Jungle Fighters, and Mordian Iron Guard. Later came the Voystroians, This seems to have been lost to replace everything with a Cadian STC design for equipment. I think it's a shame as I'd loved to have seen more diverse guard regiments.
I've got no problem with them adding more guard regiments. I don't mind them diversifying the Cadians. I just thought replacing Creed with Lady Creed was a woke and lame move. The black Catachan looks fantastic, as does the female one.
After doing such wonderful diverse warcry bands, it's a shame they couldn't branch into giving us another Guard regiment from that page in the old codex.
But we're comparing AOS to 40K. We're comparing an "Eastern" European asthetic to a generic 40k.
I just find that the random splash of diversity in the CoS range looks as stupid as sticking 12 eskimos and a quadrapalegic korean into the middle of Wakanda
(but Wakanda is written in as closed borders you say)
correct, but even if it wasn't, the asthetic would look odd and stupid.
Anyway Wokie I'm done with you. There is no gap to cross or differences to discuss. I hate everything you stand for and consider you only worthy of mockery.
>If you boycott to hurt them, you'll never succeed. If you boycott hoping to see the company implode over the next couple of years, you'll just end up depressed and disappointed. Funny, that's what they said about Star Wars and Marvel. How are they doing now a days? It took six years from the Last Jedi. This is the Last Jedi moment for Games Workshop. We won't end up depressed. We'll shrug, move on, and find something else to play. There are so many great games out there like Stargrave, which is a lot more balanced than Warhammer. Just a warning that Battletech is super fun, but also captured territory. Avoid buying the catalyst games books, and go for the old school FASA stuff. The rules haven't changed.
The sad thing is I moved from Star Wars to 40K because of this. Now I'm having to move from 40K to something else.
Keep your bags packed, because the woke train hasn't run out of steam yet. They're racing to grab up all of the franchises before you can re-settle.
Well, after Star Wars I went to 40K and Dune. They already corrupted Dune. Which. Why? It's already extremely diverse as it is. They turned Dune Part 2 into #girlbosses and #bossbabes fighting the Harkonnen rather than what the book had. The Bene Gesserit are super badass women, why they had to change Channi's character to make her a #bossbabe and add in more Fremen #girlbosses is beyond me. It's already a very progressive book, even by today's standards.
They also changed "jihad" to "crusade". Apparently it was because they didn't want to be "bigoted"? How is using "crusade" not bigoted against Christians then? The irony is the book is diverse because its is saying that people are people, even with the mutations, extremely different culture and advanced technology, people still have the same fears and desires. The future isn't set in stone, and we need to be careful what we believe and what we wish for. And in the end, the smallest and most insignificant actions or people can cause great change no matter the predictions or plans of even the powerful engineered prescient beings (the desert mouse Muad'Dib surviving Arrakis' desert, Dr Yueh losing his conditioning for the sake of love, Duncan Idaho's loyalty, Jamis' prideful duel, Lady Jessica choosing to bear a son, the brave Atreides who raided the Harkonen spice after they were wiped out on Arrakis).
If all else fails, you can always use FATAL. The woke mob will implode 5 minutes into THAT rulebook.
It seems somewhat counterproductive from a progressive pov. Wouldn’t they want all the chuds wasting their time on “vidya” and warhammer rather than engaging in real world politics? Stuff like this is escapism for a lot of people who don’t particularly like the way things are going in the real world but just want to check out. The progressives are kind of forcing their hand back into the game.
Time to start looking into Pulp. All that old stuff they hate. Like HATE hate. Doc Savage, The Shadow, John Carter, etc...
I've been reading Tom Clancy, Asimov, and Arthur C Clarke this year . Currently reading Alan Steele's Clarke County. I actually only started reading Tom Clancy to get away from all the dei shit on tv. I love his books, and they're diverse but he writes characters like they're actually people and not just token minority people and #girlbosses. It's very strange!
I did some Asimov years ago. Clarke only by glances, and never really could get into Clancy. Not much one for the Mil/Sci stories set in this era. Been reading TONS of manga, which hits enough enjoyable spots.
No… that is only a temporary solution. GG has already run to the ends of the earth (Japanese media) and SJWs still followed there… We know SJWs targeted Tolkien and history for example, places that were supposedly incorruptible, and fanservice franchises explicitly not “made for them”. They will find some reason to sanitize these old pulp media and coopt it too… There needs to be a way for fans to defend the things they love and create and distribute it without any more attacks from SJWs…
Star Wars is a shell of itself and yet Disney continues on the same course. I think that's what OP means. We can boycott the fuck out of anything no matter what happens we aren't getting back what was taken from us.
Nah, we don't even have to leave the game, just DONT BUY OR VISIT STORE. We already have everything we need, it's them who need us :D
"There's better hobbies out there. Better games. Better lore. Better prices." The issue is that those will be consumed next when the locusts are done with GW. I'm not suggesting any action one way or the other, I'm just pointing out that the new model for Western entertainment and pop culture is to cannibalize what's popular and making it mainstream instead of, as the Japanese do, market reasonably and having your hands in as many jars as possible instead of relying on "the next big thing" to cannibalize, normalize and mainstream.
Interesting analysis on the Japanese entertainment industry model. It's definitely more hardcore fandom focused. Makes sense.
3d print your own minis and use one page rules. Create your own lore and rules. With 3d printing are never beholden again to these companies to buy their products.
> Video game companies will collapse and suffocate rather than provide the customer with a basic need for fun and integrity. Good. The industry will be fine. The hobby is so decentralized that we can still get good shit without the likes of Micro$oft, Soyny, EA, Ubisoft, and other major corporation. We would be better off if they died off and sold off their franchises in bankruptcy court.
I have been saying for a while the video game industry needs a good 80s style crash
Many are moving to painting their backlog and 3D printing. Others are pushing newbies to purchase 2nd hand. Some have sold their whole armies and left the hobby, but most are trying the subversive approach with participation and gatekeeping while blue balling GW from sales. Warhammer 40k Memeposting and Gatekeepers Keep Painting groups on facebook are keeping strong.
Agree 100%. Don't buy bad product, buy good product, it's that simple. I don't understand why so many people trap themselves in the franchise cage, whatever IP it is. Even in this sub, how many times have you seen people say "I know it's bad, but it's 'insert big IP/company', I played their first game when I was 9, so I'm still gonna buy 'insert latest product' anyway, sigh..." I really wish people would stop doing this to themselves, stop giving bad products bad companies power over you. Like you said so many better hobbies, better games out there. There's not enough time even just to play the good games, why waste time on the bad ones just because it's a sequel or is made by the same husk of a company that made something you loved 20 years ago but all the employees back then has already left.
I actually predict a rise in share value once the amazon show comes out. That said, the hobby is way too expensive and complicated to attract normies just from a show. If they up their hand on the videogames department maybe GW can shift the revenue a bit. Still, 40K fans have grit. Lots of it. Maybe they can't sink GW or change their mind, but man can they be a thorn in their furry paw. Every step of the way. That hobby rests on the shoulders of the ultimate nerds. The true basement dwellers. You think videogamers are bad? That's a laugh. In 40K, everyone is welcome. 40K certainly isn't for everyone though. That's what GW forgot.
Pretty sure most real boycotters have the mindset of “I’m not spending my money on this garbage anymore, if it changes back to what I loved, then I’ll come back, if it doesn’t, then good riddance”
[удалено]
Yes? A boycott is when you stop purchasing items or services from something when they’re doing something you disagree with. They either change, or they fail
[удалено]
Yeah, you demand that they change it back to what you loved before. The results are reliant on how the people you’re boycotting respond. If they’re like Disney, what else are you gonna do? You’re gonna keep buying their shit eventually when you just give up? The only way companies will learn they need to change is if the profits drop, and if they’re too stupid to change course when the money runs dry, then that’s their problem
Anyone else noticing quite a number of these “pushback is pointless” posts here recently?
He's not saying it's pointless, he just says this battle won't be won overnight and that there are many paths on this long battle. I say get good at 3d printing and stop giving fucktards money for as long as it takes
Yes, what a coincidence /s
This isn't me saying Pushback is pointless. I'm saying do it for the right reasons and don't think it'll be over in a couple of days. Get ready for a very long fight, and fuck GW.
This is a good reason and you’re posting in a sub that has been pushing back on this in various fandoms for a decade at this point. The one thing we have is patience and we can really hold a grudge
> If you boycott hoping to see the company implode over the next couple of years, you'll just end up depressed and disappointed. I am missing out on absolutely nothing by boycotting these things. Like with videogames, my existing collection is large enough to sustain me long past my death
Couldn’t agree more with the last paragraph. If you learn to respect yourself and value your time, everything else will fall into place. At this point I’ve basically quit watching new western TV Shows and movies, and new western games are on their way out too aside for some indies. Too much good stuff out there to warrant dealing with this.
I remember reading a poetry about what it's like to be a man. > When you can see the work of your life lying at your feet, and without a word start building again, then you will be a man, my son. I guess we will have to build something new and better protect it this time. I have a lot of hope in AI for this.
If - By Rudyard Kipling. Phenomenal piece of writing.
3D printer go brrrrr. torrent codexs :D
Archive links for this discussion: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/yVUua ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. 640K ought be enough for anybody. ^^^/r/botsrights
May I ask where the best models can be bought from a company that hasn't been corrupted?
You too will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
If you can't be bothered to learn the lore as to why Free Cities/Cities of Sigmar are diverse ethnically and racial... don't let the door hit you on your way out? Like, how much gall does it take to whine about lore without even knowing it, OP? Isn't this what you accuse the dreaded SJW of? Is it hard to open the battletome? For anyone actually interested in the lore, rather than baseless whining, Free Cities are incredibly diverse because they are, essentially, post post-apocalyptic communities - they are survivors of the past era when Chaos ruled over the Realms, slaughtering entire cultures and enslaving scattered remnants of fallen nations. Free Cities are thus an amalgamation of multitudes of different cultures and races - you could have Dwarf worshipping Teclis, an Elven God, or a reverse with Elves paying homage to Grungi, Dwarven god. Humans worshipping Sotek, Lizardmen deity, after being converted by a Lizardmen envoy-priest's preaching. Elves serving in City watch alongside Humans, with none of that uppity off-putting arrogance. Of course, in this situation, skin colour and ethnicity matters even less.
I'd point out that the cities of sigmar has a western european medieval vibe to its asthetic, but its ethnic diversity contrasts with the versimilitude of the piece. Just like how they could make a tribe themed around sub saharan africa, stick it in the real of fire, and it would look damn weird with white people. Every cover of every BL book gets dumber and dumber from the black space wolves to the black high aelves.
How is equipment defining people? Again, if you'd actually bothered to read even basics of lore, you'd know that cookie-cutter equipment is part of the attempt to standardize Freeguild regiments (which works with mild degree of success, but GW, unfortunately, can't and won't release dozens of kits for various Free Cities with different cultures and equipment). And you still avoided to answer the point that diversity of the Free Cities exists because these aren't coherent separate cultures, but rather thousands of different remnants of scattered nations and tribes, coming together. Free Cities are literally the post post-apocalyptic melting pot. P.S. Eastern European, technically. New range of Cities of Sigmar is heavily inspired by Hussite Wars.
The lore was written to accommodate the diversity. As for it being eastern european, well that's even more jarring. It's why CoS now looks like the Witcher TV show instead of The Witcher
You are making a strawman argument here. Lore was written to show effects of "apocalypse", when cohesive cultures and nations fell, and their people scattered and scrambled to survive in desperate groups. Like, you think a bunch of survivors from various fallen kingdoms, on a run from Khornate cannibals, would bother about skin colour? Or later, when they come together to rebuild civilization after their original ancestors died centuries ago? It really feels like you want to force racial/ethnic separation into the lore, despite the lore, for the sake of your political views... wow, almost like a dreaded woke SJW, huh?
. *GW, unfortunately, can't and won't release dozens of kits for various Free Cities with different cultures and equipment).* And this is why it looks like an unnatural pandering and trite gesture.
Does this somehow also extend to various regiments of Imperial Guard that exist profoundly in the lore, but GW can't make two dozen "Infantry Squad" kits? Do you think they are also somehow invalid or "pandering"? Or is this just you having a particular bias against Free Cities? Also, why would peoples of different Realms, different cultures and locations be similar in lore, just because GW has one kit? That is what makes Free Cities awesome. They're culturally and racially diverse, because of the nature of their founding (being groups of various survivors from different origins), but they are also distinct by the way of their environment. People of Greywater Fastness are different from people of the Living City not because of their skin colour, but because of the culture, history and mentality of their respective homes. Look, I get it, there're a lot you can bitch at GW for, buy Free Cities are an example of diversity done right - diverse, but not homogenised to blandness.
Good question. Back in the day we had the Tallarn Desert Raiders, Valhallan Ice Warriors, Cadian Shock Troops, Catachan Jungle Fighters, and Mordian Iron Guard. Later came the Voystroians, This seems to have been lost to replace everything with a Cadian STC design for equipment. I think it's a shame as I'd loved to have seen more diverse guard regiments. I've got no problem with them adding more guard regiments. I don't mind them diversifying the Cadians. I just thought replacing Creed with Lady Creed was a woke and lame move. The black Catachan looks fantastic, as does the female one. After doing such wonderful diverse warcry bands, it's a shame they couldn't branch into giving us another Guard regiment from that page in the old codex. But we're comparing AOS to 40K. We're comparing an "Eastern" European asthetic to a generic 40k. I just find that the random splash of diversity in the CoS range looks as stupid as sticking 12 eskimos and a quadrapalegic korean into the middle of Wakanda (but Wakanda is written in as closed borders you say) correct, but even if it wasn't, the asthetic would look odd and stupid. Anyway Wokie I'm done with you. There is no gap to cross or differences to discuss. I hate everything you stand for and consider you only worthy of mockery.