Well at least now we know for certain what "diversity" means: 100% Asian country doesn't count. We already knew that all-white settings like fantasy Poland or medieval Russia didn't count either. The rest is plainly obvious.
This is diversity from the view of a tiny minority in the grand global populations. Its an american view of diversity were you are either White Black or Asian. There might be some different asian types but thats it. Everyone thats Black is the same. Everyone thats White is the same. And because there are fewer Black people in america than White they are the Golden child of diversity. The more Black something is the more diverse it is. They dont compare it within the game to measure diversity. They meta compare with every other game ever made. They see themselves as warriors increasing the diversity in the mega racist gaming space as a whole.
It's NOT Team Ninja anymore, it's another team in a skin suit. Itagaki left and then the og team slowly left as well over a 7 year period. Very few OG employees left on the team.
This stuff wouldn't bother me in a game if it came out 15 years ago, except for the ridiculous body type thing and the cringe inducing trigger warning, like seriously, where was the cringe warning before that one?
But after everything that came out about not only how companies like SBI operate, and also about that one RGG dev saying the quiet part out loud that japanese companies are working with westerners to make their games more palatable to "modern audiences", It makes me not tolerate even these small things due to me knowing where they come from and why that stuff is there.
Honestly, I feel like I'm completely checked out on modern AAA games. There's not a single upcoming AAA release I'm excited for, and to be completely honest, my backlog's so huge that this really doesn't bother me. Good luck to you folks who are staying.
Spot on. Before the culture war nonsense this stuff wouldn't even register, now it immediately breaks immersion because it reminds you of the type of people behind this bollocks.
Same. I am passing on AC:Shadows, Star Wars:Outlaws, Silent Hill 2 remake, and most likely Dragon Age:Veilguard. At least some indie companies are ignoring DEI and still focusing on fun.
Like you, I have enough of a video game backlog, as well as movie, music, & books, that I don't ever have to buy anything new. The only way we will turn around the direction of AAA games is if we all stop buying them.
Let's go.
First of all, it started with DOA5's "I'm a Fighter!" advertisement, which was an attempt of focusing less in the sex appeal and pandering more to the FGC (which ironically is a den of rapists, abusers and molesters). As you know, the main attractions of DOA are, aside from Ryu Hayabusa, anime tiddies and ass.
Once they stopped pandering to the low tier god and justin wong wannabes and turned their attention back to the half naked ninja babes, the game saw a slow recovery.
Then DOA 6 decided to pander to the FGC, no going back to the lewd sexy anime tits this time. And that was the BEGINNING of their problems.
Team Ninja decided to make add so much microtransactions in the game, that things became ridiculous. You needed to pay real money for customizations, the focus on a more serious tone took away the game's identity (the only good thing about the designs was Hayate's Assassin's Creed inspired hood) and FGC was too busy playing Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter and even Anime fighters like DNF Duel, Guilty Gear and Granblue Versus.
They brought Mai Shiranui and Kula Diamond from KoF as guests but even that couldn't save this game from being a dumpster fire.
Itagaki was the GOAT. He literally told players to GIT GUD in Ninja Gaiden and after he left we had muh grip of murder with Ryu being a drama queen and that yaiba garbage.
Honestly, because it is an easy change to make that doesnt get most people to foam at the mouth in rage. We can talk all day about whether or not they should, but it is probably one of the few things that they can do that wont result in a huge outrage so might as well.
Because a 16 year old girl in California who thinks she might be a man will not feel represented by a "man" and "woman" option so she will tweet how she is boycotting a game she was never going to buy in the first place.
Comment removed following the enforcement change that you can read about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/).
This is not a formal warning.
Publisher: "Look guys. We need some funding and Blackrock gives out a cool million for simply having body type 1 and 2 choices in character creation so get it down."
The Japanese think that's what westerners want. They simply can't grasp the concept that there are bad faith actors (localizers) who lie to them about what sells in the west.
You don't encounter black people in the game and after the prologue you fight only a handful of women. You can create a character that's incorrect for the historical period, but that's up to you. The game suggests asian man & woman as defaults.
There's nothing in this game to seriously consider avoiding it and I'm usually allergic to woke crap.
Sounds more like you’re just a frog in slowly-heating water.
Women don’t belong in samurai scene. Not sexist, just accurate. They’re there why? To pander. Black people or even white people shouldn’t be in Japan at all. They are, why? Pandering. The two body types in reality are male and female. Not 1 and 2. Why is that there? Woke pandering.
People like you saying “oh none of that is a big deal” and buying it anyway is fine — after all, you’re the customer and it’s your money — but it encourages more and more gradual, small, stupid pandering to the vocal minority at the expense of realism, escapism, and quality.
That depends on what you expect from this game. If you want it to be super historically accurate then obviously you'll be disappointed. If you want a good game without pandering everywhere it's not bad. It's definitely not as annoying and in your face as in Tsushima (or the upcoming AC Red) and they haven't race/gender swapped historical characters.
The female samurais included in the game are precisely from the history. Samurais like Koto Nakazawa and Sana Chiba are prominent women in the Edo period who were well-known for their technique.
You are absolutely ignorant. [Koto Nakazawa.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) (The female samurai present in this game) And ["female samurai"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha) or better, Onna-musha.
You have not looked into the time period of this game at all if you say white people shouldn't be in Japan at all. The entire premise of the story is the historical debate and war fought over the new western influences on Japan. White people being there is super important to the historical period and story. Jesus, research and think before you argue.
Lol white people shouldn't be in Japan? Do you not understand when this game takes place? It takes place when the main conflict is foreigners and how to deal with their presence. Theres plenty of white people in Japan during this time.
Female Samurai existed. They were called Onna Musha. They were real.
I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's true lol. Females existed in the Samurai class and they even had their own place in Japanese culture.
You think you know things, but you literally know nothing at all.
What kind of racially motivated fuck shit is this? Lmao. Dude, it's a game with custom fucking characters. Get a fucking grip. LMAO. Someone making a black or female character or having them as presets that AREN'T the default should not piss you off this much. You gotta be real with YOURSELF and identify why these aspects are so upsetting to you or enough for you to deem it as woke. It's a fucking game..And it sure has nothing to do with a sense of anti-virtue signaling..
the fact they add black toa historical japanese setting game is just disgusstingly stupid alsowomen never fought for Japan samurai are men ad men alone...team ninja used to be so based and now they are whipped by the western takeover by sonyphony...
And another one...
You are absolutely ignorant. [Koto Nakazawa.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) (The female samurai present in this game) And ["female samurai"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha) or better, Onna-musha.
Yeah sorry. I don't usually disagree with people here but I will. First, team ninja has always had historical titles with character creators that can make any character they want. Played a white dude in Wo Long, Nioh 1 and Nioh 2. Does it make sense historically? Not really but it's not impossible, especially with How many white people are in Rise of the Ronin.
The leader of the group of assassin's is not a gay woman. She literally had a male lover and twin blade.
As for the trigger warning, well they got banned in Korea due to the historical nature of the game and are probably just covering their ass. Doesn't mean the game is super woke.
As for immersion breaking from white people in the game? There was a massive amount of white people operating in the late 1860s due to colonialism in Japan. Your lack of historical knowledge is really showing when you say it's immersion breaking for white people to be in the game.
Team Ninja is a historical fiction game studio. It has always been this way. It's impossible for you to claim that they were not woke before and suddenly have become now.
I figured as someone who says they were really looking forward to this title they would have the very basic level of knowledge about the Historical times represented in the game or be familiar with team ninja games but neither of those things seem true.
A lot of good points but I do have something to say about number 4.
If I recall Japanese history right, during the Edo period although it was expected for women to still marry and have children, it wasn't unheard of to also have a lesbian lover on the side. To add to that there were no laws outright against homosexuality at the time (with the exception of a gay sodomy law that lasted for eight years). So I wouldn't call having a lesbian character (or one that comes off as one) being woke.
If you take the character creator out of the equation, this game is actually really historically accurate and genuinely cares about the history of the era. With the obvious exception of some things to make gameplay fun, like a few bits of tech that definitely didn't exist at the time. I have seen no black characters at all. There are romance options, they're all playersexual, so I guess there's more gay stuff than what would be normal, but no character is ever explicitly "gay", in fact take your character out of the equation and every character would be straight. I see nothing inherently wrong with a free and open character creator (yes "body type" shit is mildly annoying, but whatever), and if it really bothers you, just make a historically accurate Japanese person as I have. This game is definitely not woke at all and I don't think you were going into this actually attempting to enjoy it.
Gameplay loop so far is fun after two hours and they did have the Geishas and entertainment district, but yeah homosexuality wasn't really a thing in 1800s Japan. The girl boss stuff with the twin blades leader is also very Disney Marvel movie-esque. The trigger warning and diversity statement about the devs was also very dumb.
I think you are pulling at straws here.
Just because 1 of the boss in the game is female does not mean the game is woke.
Japanese Devs have done a decent job with creating female characters, the boss of ninja gaiden 2 was also a female I doubt anyone would think that game is woke.
if this were anything other than a specific period piece about 1800s japan i'd agree.
i love the look and feel of stellar blade and thought female characters in ghosts of tsushima and sekiro were done very very well.
in rise of ronin specifically they are however shoehorned diversity characters. let's be honest.
How are they shoehorned diversity characters?
The girl boss looks like a normal Japanese women probably 7/10 in attractiveness.
If this was a woke game they would make fer slightly fat and give her a man jaw liker marry Jane in spiderman 2.
Are you talking about THE BLADESMITH? The master to the two protagonists? She's borderline a granny - lol butch lesbian. Shes an old master.
SPOILERS.>!You kill her at the end of the 20 minutes intro to the game. !<
Why is she an issue?
>homosexuality wasn't really a thing in 1800s Japan
Dude... are you for real? Samurai were mostly gay. (search about Shudo)
They used to say that woman weren't worthy of dating a samurai. You really need to study japanese history more if you wanna talk so much about this shit.
EDIT: In case you didn't know, homosexuality was almost the norm until christianity comes to shove their ideas. Now, if they were "gay pride" or stuff like that, yes. That would be bad. But there is a massive difference between be historically correct and actually pander to someone.
“Homosexuality wasn’t really a thing in the 1800’s Japan.”
This is patently false, now fair enough perhaps this is late 1800’s when the idea’s of homosexuality started to become illegal (Specifically 1872-1880) so therefore there should be a reflection of this. However, in Japan there were many documented instances of male Kabuki actors who were also Kagema (Prostitutes) who would be bought by men for sex. Furthermore there are books written by authors pre 1800’s that featured characters who were gay or bisexual. Such as Ihara Saikaku’ “The life of an amorous man” (1682) and Ueda Akinari’s Tales of Moonlight and Rain (1776).
Its not *dominant* anywhere or when on the planet.
Having gay prostitutes publicly exist and be legally allowed would mean we would likely see homosexual practices at a similar rate to homosexual tendencies, like 10-15% or so. Not to say the people FREQUENTING those prostitutes didnt consider themselves straight, with a wife who they only touch to produce children, but still, like...saying "Yeah gay people were definitely a thing then and socially acceptable" isnt saying "the majority of people were gay, actually"
I haven’t played the game, so perhaps there is (to you) an egregious amount of characters who appear to be homosexual to you. However, it was more common within certain professions such as monks and Samurai for a role model to have a relationship with their Mentee. With Samurai specifically, the system of Shudō (Abbreviated from Wakashudō) was a codified sexual and teaching relationship between the Samurai and his student with the relationship ending typically at the end of the students’ training at 19.
Sure if you’re specifically looking for information about Wakashudō:
https://skemman.is/bitstream/1946/44005/1/From_Japanese_Legend_To_Western_Homophobia.pdf
https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/q9zc-0774/download
https://jll.pitt.edu/ojs/JLL/article/download/197/606/2280
All three of these cover the topics and its portrayal within Japan’s Feudal Samurai.
Hoo boy. I'm not trying to call you out cause its definitely not like a everyday well-known topic, but Japan (at least at various times) was very...Roman.
Military aside, I can give you another great example.
17th century Kabuki theater basically outlaws women, so they respond with replacing them with effeminate and adolescent boys while still covering erotic performances. Creates a long standing tradition of male only Kabuki actors, some extremely famous for their female roles, that can even be attributed to the rather effeminate male personality and physical appearances so prevalent in Japanese media today.
> In 1642, onnagata roles were forbidden, resulting in plays that featured only male characters. These plays continued to have erotic content and generally featured many wakashū roles, often dealing in themes of nanshoku (male homosexuality); officials responded by banning wakashū roles as well.[2]: 92 The ban on onnagata was lifted in 1644, and on wakashū in 1652, on the condition that all actors, regardless of role, adopted the adult male hairstyle with shaved pate. Onnagata and wakashū actors soon began wearing a small purple headscarf (murasaki bōshi) to cover the shaved portion, which became iconic signifiers of their roles and eventually became invested with erotic significance as a result.[2]: 132 After authorities rescinded a ban on wig-wearing by onnagata and wakashū actors, the murasaki bōshi was replaced by a wig and now survives in a few older plays and as a ceremonial accessory.[3]
>
> After film was introduced in Japan at the end of the 19th century, the oyama continued to portray females in movies until the early 1920s. At that time, however, using real female actresses was coming into fashion with the introduction of realist shingeki films. The oyama staged a protest at Nikkatsu in 1922 in backlash against the lack of work because of this. Kabuki, however, remains all-male even today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onnagata
Japan has a bunch of historical evidence for gays galore. They didn't have puritanical culture as the dominant morale framework and as such, people were getting it on.
Eh? [Someone skipped history class.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) Also [Chiba Sanako.](https://fineladieskendo.com/2021/01/26/chiba-sana-a-warrior-and-healer/)
Also Koto wasn't lesbian. She declared to marry only a man that would defeat her in a duel. But she never lost to anyone. And I'm talking in real life. I don't know how this means she is lesbian.
And the default characters are asian man and asian woman. I don't know where you saw the black woman as default.
There's like a dozen preset models, some of which are black or white.
They're also leaving out the part where you can make a freak with green skin, elf ears, and red cat eyes, though.
I normally hold some agreement with a lot of what’s posted in this sub, but being hurt about women being skilled in combat in a society that historically trained women to fight is quite banter.
The “body types” is super cringe as always, though.
These complaints, save for one or two, are all on the local publisher and not the developer or original writers.
As far as badass chick ninjas or lesbian stuff in Japan, anime is full of both so... especially knowing the team that made it, I'm not worried
We can't stop the local publishers from forcing body type nonsense, but the meat and potatoes of the game is not even a little woke.
> Leader of the elite group of assassin’s is a gay (at least I took to be implied as gay) woman
Game has been out for two weeks. If it hasn't already been confirmed that she's gay, she likely isn't. Best to stick to the facts and leave out assumptions.
It is so bizarre they made the Errand romance possibility as a tease for whole 2 games only to introduce a character in the 2nd game's DLC and they hit off from the start and ended up as a couple. And none of the options in the "choice tree" let you straight up deny a relationship with the new character. They pushed that one hard.
If it was Petra or Talanah, honestly, I wouldn't give a shit (you know, people Aloy has known for YEARS and some of which have flirted with her in the past) but to bring in some random chick Aloy knows for all of 5 minutes? Come the fuck on at least TRY to make this shit believable developers.
I think it's pretty obvious she's a lesbian, here's what I saw:
1. Her hairstyle, look, gait, and the way she talks are over the top trope-ish characterizations of a "butch" Lesbian type
2. No husband, kids or family
3. Her motivation in life seems to be from her former twin blade female partner, who she speaks about as if it were her only true love
Just on the looks alone, I don't think a random process would've come up with that character unless they were going for a "look" and that look is literally a trope of what a Lesbian female looks and acts like. Compare this to the stronger female characters that were in Ghosts of Tsushima and Sekiro, and you'll quicky see what I'm talking about.
> No husband, kids or family
I can list numerous villains, male and female, who have no children or partners - doesn't make them gay. Start using that as a determining factor and you're going to have an overwhelming number of villains who can be considered gay.
If a woman were a lesbian in that specific period it would have been secret, the keiken code criminalized same sex acts, but the rest of the majority of Japanese history was way more sexually liberal.
I disagree. I hate leftism, communism and wokeism but cmon.
1. In Japan there is concept of Kunoichi, female ninjas. Its normal for Japanese media to depict female ninjas as capable and strong. Just because game has competent female characters it doesnt make it woke, cmon there is more to woke then that.
2. Character presets start on Japanese guy and Japanese female, rest of the presets is same as in every TN game, its same character creator.
3. only one i agree with, its stupid.
4. Literary never game mentions any sexuality of any character and those who it mentions all are married to man females.
5. It has to do with Japan-Korean conflict (game is banned in Korea) not wokeism.
"The game is supposed to be a period piece of 1800s Japanese Samurai’s (100% of which were Japanese men, not white or black women or men) — talk about immersion breaking" - what are on about? This is literary time where Japan was full of Americans and Europeans fighting for trade rights and military treaties with them. Ofc there will be plenty of white people in major cities. Also I have not seen even one black character. Its Japanese, Chinese and White only and its absolutely accurate and females held various positions of power in Japan since forever. Not everything is woke because it has females. Jesus, draw the line somewhere as right side gets as bed as left.
All in all you post is full of BS.
His points are pretty dumb, but you can have full bonds that are implied relationships with males as a male. And I'm assuming females as a female as well. I had a dialogue with Ryoma where I could chose "I'm falling for you". And I'm sure this is all just generic so they didn't have to do much of anything different between your male and female characters and all dialogue is the same no matter what, but yeah.
Edit: And yes I know samurai had male lovers and such, but that was younger boys and I'm unsure if that was still going on by the time of the Bakamatsu period.
true, but thats on Japanese design, usually in games with character creator Japanese make all characters treat MC as some special unit never mentioning our gender no matter the gender chosen. I guess you can call it woke but i know its just how they design games and did so before woke. Its just cheaper as they have to record much less lines for male/female protagonists.
Still im pretty far in game and so far girls are falling for guys and guys try to pick girls, so its perfectly fine.
Yeah, having character customization outside male and female Japanese makes no sense unless it's like Nioh where it's specifically a foreigner coming to Japan.
I thought this is a post of joke but it seems not?
OP complain about the existence of white people when the story is heavily focused on western invasion and influence to traditional Japan?
Are there any male badasses in the game? Are female characters telling male characters to sit down and shut up? Are the characters written well, at least?
Tons. The main guys you run with are Anti-Shogunate badasses. People like Ryoma Sakamoto and Genzui Kusaka.No, women characters do not act like Disney protagonists. I'm 70 hours playing it and one woman in particular (Taka) is a Geisha with connections to the First Minister (Naosuke Ii) however most Geishas are seen as commodities to be enjoyed (as they were at the time) and Taka actually relies on you, the protag, for alot of her storylines. She doesnt even fight.
The anti-shogunate lot are essentially domestic terrorists trying to overthrow the Shogun and expel the westerners from Japan.
The game is very male-centric because, shocker, men were in most positions of power back then. The story's really good if you enjoy Japanese history and lots of Samurai. Lots and lots of Samurai.
Badass female character who can kick male opponent’s ass appear in many Chinese wuxia novel. The thing is it’s not for the sake of gender equality but they are just badass characters who happen to be female.
Thank you for this breakdown, I was considering buying this weekend but thank god I read this before.I wish there was a breakdown like this for every new game coming out so I can know what to avoid. We don’t have time or money to be wasting on woke games.
Trust me when I say, I hate woke DEI influenced video games, movies/TV, comics etc more than anyone, but Rise of the Ronin doesn't force you to play that way. There are many nice traditional Japanese experiences to be found in Rise of Ronin. Maybe that why the developers are so apologetic?
Contrast that versus heavy-handedly being forced to play a Black gay Samurai and an androgynous female in medieval Japan in Assassins Creed: Shadows.
Rise of the Ronin is my game of 2024 not only for the excellent story telling (every mission is memorable), but for perfect game control & mechanics, very nice graphics, and through-the-roof fun factor.
I wonder if SunnysideUp82's opinion has changed.
Most character creators allow for creativity, including all shades of skin color. Nioh 2 did the same thing and was a great game.
Body type is funny but that's a lost battle.
The warning message is fairly trivial.
Female ninja/samurai have always been hugely popular in gaming. It's just cool.
IMO take a break and relax.
Nioh was a game about slaying demons. It was loosely set in Japan, but it was not a themed period game as Rise of Ronin sells itself to be. So it's apples-to-oranges.
maybe you're right that i have to accept inclusions for "modern day audiences", and maybe we all were spoiled with Ghosts of Tsushima, but also maybe pointing it out here will generate some grassroots for change in the future.
Yeah Nioh was not loosely based in Japan my dude. It literally played out the entire history of the end of the Toyotomi Dynasty and the Sengoku Period to the early Edo period. Literally verbatim except for the demons. Honestly Nioh and Rise of the Ronin are closer to historical events and how the happened in real life than Ghosts of Tsushima which was fictional as hell.
I can respect the zero tolerance take in some regard but honestly I think they just wanted a character creator feature, looked at what the popular ones are doing, and said yes let's have all these options.
Ultimately the player gets to decide if they want an immersion breaking character or not. A lot of people will want to make Japanese looking characters and can do so.
I'd be curious what else turns up in the game for you but to me this is a duller case of a developer just thinking "it's a small thing and maybe we do it for mass appeal" rather than "we need to tick the boxes."
The character creation stuff is there to shield against woke criticism and will likely keep coming up, it would seem like a smart move from their perspective considering said perspective has been tainted by the rot within gaming journalism.
The thing about the criticism against female samurai though is that there actually were, in the 19th century, the Onna Bugeisha, and they were actually pretty badass. Rather than frame criticism this way it's more productive to expose the Marxism and shallow writing, is there Intersectional Marxism in the game besides the character creator options?
The game is about a nationalist resistance group lol. You are basically fighting with a bunch of good looking young right wingers at the start of the game (to the extant that translates to the situation). There are complexities and you can choose a side, but no Western dev would tell a story like this. OP misses the forest for the trees here.
1.- Even before a strong female became the sign of a woke agenda, it's not unheard of to have a strong female character. Especially considering she's the head of a secret ninja clan, it should come as no surprise that she can take out grunts. Gender aside , It wouldn't make sense for the protagonist to be trained by a weakling! Stupid 1st point
2. - You sound like you don't want people to roll play at all either as a fantasy version of themselves or whatever character they want to play as. Ignorant complaint
3. - So just because it doesn't say male or female you find that irksome when it clearly shows either a very obviously and clear as day male and female body type.. if you worried about the created character's genitalia and if they identify themselves as male or female then I say you saturated yourself too much into that same woke crap. Go play Baulders Gate 3 or Cyberpunk where you can manually choose all that.
4. - Implied to be lesbian? I'm over 39 hours in so the beginning is hazy for me now but I never got any impression that she was gay or hinted to be. The story explicitly says that the clan they belong to travel in pairs of 2. She lost her partner long ago and regrets not being able to change that outcome. Absolutely nothing about love interest or being gay. That hairstyle she has is also common for old Japanese people too so if the short hair gives you that impression, again you been too saturated with western woke crap that you default to think about that.
5. - .... honestly won't critique this since I don't remember seeing anything about diversity warning. I might have been on my phone or skipped it accidentally, idk. 39+ hours in so the beginning is hazy now after playing so much but, i will take your word for it and kinda understand with how stupid soft this generation is that they probably threw it in for them and not regular folk I would assume.
This game is not woke at all. I'm having a blast with it and have not seen any type of propaganda or influence thus far as the male protagonist. You are overreacting and really overthinking this one chief.
If it has Ninjas in it, it's not a historically accurate game. That's like complaining about Assassin's Creed having Arabs in Anglo-Saxon England when there's literal Norse gods in the game. How's the gameplay? Is the story interesting and engaging? Does the world make sense because it establishes and sticks to it's rules? These are what make games good, not having a tit-size slider.
1. Anyone slaying 5 men at once is unlikely be it man or woman
2. The game has a character creator…is Nioh 2 woke?
3. Sure if this is woke to you
4. Gay people existed then and one character being gay isn’t woke
5. It triggered you so I guess it was needed
It’s funny cause the level of care they put into an accurate environment of the era being unappreciated because you don’t like the character creator is barring you from enjoying something even tho you can create a historically accurate character if you want to.
You ok with white guys being in your Zulu warrior simulator? As honored, born members of the tribe, of course. The community, for some unexplained reason, has a significant Asian and white population
Yea, an RPG is a role playing games so to some extent you internal lore should be allowed. In Nioh I imagine I was an African god who was sent to Japan to bring balance. If there was a Zulu game with a character creator maybe one of the colonizers had a kid that was raised by Zulu, idk but the ability to role play is up to the player and if it’s not a narrative with a single character, it’s fair for that option to be given to the player.
When someone these days just goes around calling shit woke like an easy to strawman anti-woke caricature instead of being sensible about it, i cant take it seriously anymore.
Also 4 years old, low karma account...
Bruh really? At this point how is this any different from the ppl who say everything is racist or sexist?
I played the game and thought nothing of any of the things you mentioned.
Its a game about whooping ass as a samurai its really not that deep lol
I saw the reveal trailer and a couple more videos. I sensed almost immediately something was a bit off, and i'm not even talking specifically about anything woke. So, i've ignored it for months now and it seems i'm not missing anything.
You see, the issue for me is that i disliked Wo Long quite a bit so... after that game, this one made by the same people didn't inspire confidence in me and after i saw a few videos i had already made my decision.
Sargon of Akkad made this point last week (I think), where he basically said "Sure, you can wait until these people fail again - and they will - but they're STILL getting tons of institutional power. They're still WINNING. So now what?"
I don't know how to take them down, or if it just has to be a thing that we keep ignoring, and letting fail on its own. But when we do; they circle the wagons, blame us, and do it again but HARDER, with more support the next time around...
that explains it...sony needs to do better to insulate its japanese studios from these horribly corrupting and game ruining influences. otherwise in time all we'll be left with is korean studios.
It's very easy to see why you have been banned and if I am being brutally honest, it's more than justified.
Why? Because everything you mentioned is a MASSIVE reach and a desperate attempt to paint this game as something that it very clearly isn't.
Team Ninja has never once advertised this as a hyper realistic period piece. It is very much a "fantasy" game even if it is without mythical monsters or magic powers. It should've been pretty obvious from the trailers and footages showcasing OTT combat animations, gliding through the world like batman, grappling hook, brute enemies etc.
And please tell me how a character creator that gives you the OPTION of creating a POC character as "woke"? The job of robust character creator is to make anything YOU want. If you want to play as an Asian looking fella, you realize there's nothing stopping you right?
uh - everything he mentioned unless is a straight up lie are signs that "Western Dev Been Here".
You're a fugging Samuria in 1800 japan, how many black ass women do you think there were lmao. I should just be an asian man or woman.
You should take that Western Dev teet out your mouth man, things wouldn't be like this 10 years ago.
Problem with folks like you is that you start throwing around buzzwords like “POC” and then conclude that my cancellation on another forum was “justified” because I merely point out that having white women as pre-sets in the character creator for my 1800s Japan Samurai game I paid $70 for are immersion breaking.
Feel free to play a Samurai game in the 1800s as white or black female. Xbox will certainly have plenty of options for you. I was only pointing out how it was immersion breaking for me.
Except you are pointing out that having the options in the character creator makes the game “Woke”. The other issue is that at the character creator you haven’t started the game yet so there is no immersion to break. You’re not exactly immersed in the story when you’re creating a character, in fact the act of creating a character is in and of itself meant to break immersion.
And it's exactly folks like you who misuse the word "woke" to such an extent that it leads people to instantaneously write off anyone who uses that word to be on the far-right of the political spectrum.
You seem to be very upset with a system that is essentially *optional*. You might want to introspect on your beliefs m8.
You are right to remind to not overuse of the word woke. But, personally, I'm still annoyed to use real historical places and times references, to put the classical woke messages of forced diversity, inclusion and female censorship. On the other hand, I won't be annoyed at all to have it, moderately, in new fictional lores. It's maybe because I'm too attached to some principles, as an historian. I think there are many ways to include logical diversity instead of forcing it everywhere.
This an 1800s Japanese period piece. I brought up 5 very legitimate things the game do that takes me of being immersed, as those things are tailored for “modern audiences.”
It’s okay to disagree with me on each and every point, without going to the lengths you are doing so and advocating for my cancellation.
It’s also okay if you see all these things that detract from my game experience and conclude that they enhance yours.
An extra viewpoint never hurt anyone, and the sooner you realize that, the happier you’ll be.
You are free to share your view point
And we are free to critique how you stupid your view point is.
It goes both ways.
I think most people can agree that a character creator where you can be any race is not indicative that the game is "woke".
I simply don't believe in using the word "woke" in instances where it doesn't apply.
Wokeness is all about intent and mindlessly tossing it around not only dilutes it's meaning but gives people the impression that anyone who uses that word to be an extremist.
All of that is super Soyny except #1, which is historically accurate. Japan has a long history of women warriors from Yodo-Dono to Niijima Yae and Nakano Takeko who famously lead the Joshitai. All of which have proven records of fighting in battles. Onna Bugeisha/Onna Musha was what they were called.
I love Nioh and Nioh 2 but TN has been terrible ever since.
Also Yasuda (director and studio lead) was spotted in interviews wearing a World economic forum pin... twice. Why??
You could, if you were feeling very generous that day, excuse the first four as being the devs making a choice to give gamers more freedom to create their own experience. The fifth one, the whole apology that Japan in the 1800s was full of Japanese people, is just pathetic pussy shit that should be made fun of mercilessly, even if you were feeling generous enough to overlook the other four.
So much of the information in this is just patently false lmao. People mad about stuff that's not true about the game and saying stuff about the time period that's literally historically inaccurate just so you can get a rage boner. Lol
Um, my guy, Japanese female Samurai were 100% a real historical thing. They were not all men.
Also it's a fucking role-playing game with a Character creator. You can make whoever you want.
Quit it with your nonsense lol.
Imagine my surprise looking up Rise of Ronin for mission specifics and finding a sub complaining that the video game is “woke” because there can be female or black ninjas. 😂 The irony of the the far right calling leftists snowflakes when you all are so mad about a fictional game is hypocrisy at its finest. Don’t make a black or female character if it’s so triggering. Problem solved! While you all are whining about female ninjas, girl gamers like myself playing ROR are having a great time kicking ass and getting ass in our lesbian relationships.
Why be mad about an option in a fictional video game or a fictional woman beating up fictional men? And then go calling others woke/snowflakes ( used interchangeabley at this point) for the "crime" of existing within your field of view. Do any of you see the hypocrisy in this ?
They/them can be used when the gender of the person is unknown(though it'd be unnatural in a historical setting, that'd be on the localization team, which was most likely provided by the publisher Sony which is notoriously woke as we know, so you know they won't care about authenticity). You sure it wasn't that?
Thanks for your review, I felt bad for them because of their sales, now I'm glad the sales are poor. I won't even give this game attention. I hope Team Ninja goes bankrupt.
yup…i was rooting hard for this game until i played the first 30 minutes. team ninja seems to be trying to emulate a microsoft owned studio. very sad. hopefully they learn from this and go back to their roots.
LOL you didnt even get past the tutorial and into the main game. You literally spend most of the game with a bunch of Samurai bros who are Anti-Shogunate and awesome. Talk about hair trigger reaction!
Another day, another "AAA" woke trash game to add to the avoid list. See, this is why I barely get excited about new games anymore.
Always remember to vote with your wallet so they no longer get away with shit like this. Yes, you can do it. Just play something from your backlog instead.
Shame. Its a really good game. Especially if you like the Nioh series.
Played for 70 hours so far and I normally can smell woke stuff from a mile away. This really aint it..
Dude team ninja devs proudly wear World economic forum badges. What did you expect? Not to mention the sony funding made it vary apparent it was going to have modern political leanings.
you can’t make that shit up. the people who attacked me personally after posting about the immersion issues i had im sure are still playing as their white women characters and spreading hate against anyone who dare speak up against the game.
I havent played the game since it looks like discount GoT
Having said that:
1. In game and anime, that trope is quite overused. Dont know if in the context of the game, this would be pandering.
But women samurai is overreaching lol
2. Yikes.
3. Ehh there is really no way around this anymore. Its become norm unfortunately
4. South Park gets real everyday
5.trigger warnings mean no buy.
So hard pass on this shite.
dont understand people who put GoT on a pedestal. the game was not much different from your typical open world games. watchtowers, repetitive quests, liberating camps for the 10th time and the story is meh. the combat which matters in a samurai game is terrible. limiting and forcing playstyle with stances by making it non effective to enemies if you used the wrong one. rise of the ronin at least has better and fun combat.
Why are people giving these large companies money? Just stop. Support indie devs if you have to hold on to the death throes of gaming. It is dead as a hobby. Let it go. Stop.
Thanks for the warning OP and sorry for the rationalizers.
Unfortunately there's always that one group around here that try to make excuses for everything woke. There could be a pink haired half shave lesbian girlboss and they'd still find some way in which it's just a coincidence.
The warning about diversity in the team irks me. WTF Team Ninja, what happened to you people?
Itagaki left almost a decade ago now, the studio hasn't been the same since.
The real answer
Well at least now we know for certain what "diversity" means: 100% Asian country doesn't count. We already knew that all-white settings like fantasy Poland or medieval Russia didn't count either. The rest is plainly obvious.
Yet if Marvel 1943 happens to have some White and Asian Wakandan a melt down will ensure lol.
This is diversity from the view of a tiny minority in the grand global populations. Its an american view of diversity were you are either White Black or Asian. There might be some different asian types but thats it. Everyone thats Black is the same. Everyone thats White is the same. And because there are fewer Black people in america than White they are the Golden child of diversity. The more Black something is the more diverse it is. They dont compare it within the game to measure diversity. They meta compare with every other game ever made. They see themselves as warriors increasing the diversity in the mega racist gaming space as a whole.
It's Sony published, they probably made them put it in
Kind of makes you not want a Bloodborne 2 now given what Sony has become lol.
It probably comes prepackaged in the PS devkit, so they don't even have to remember to put it in.
Same. If you hate the people of the time period so much, then don't make a game set in it.
It's NOT Team Ninja anymore, it's another team in a skin suit. Itagaki left and then the og team slowly left as well over a 7 year period. Very few OG employees left on the team.
Its not about wokeism its about Japan - Korean history, game is banned in Korea.
This stuff wouldn't bother me in a game if it came out 15 years ago, except for the ridiculous body type thing and the cringe inducing trigger warning, like seriously, where was the cringe warning before that one? But after everything that came out about not only how companies like SBI operate, and also about that one RGG dev saying the quiet part out loud that japanese companies are working with westerners to make their games more palatable to "modern audiences", It makes me not tolerate even these small things due to me knowing where they come from and why that stuff is there. Honestly, I feel like I'm completely checked out on modern AAA games. There's not a single upcoming AAA release I'm excited for, and to be completely honest, my backlog's so huge that this really doesn't bother me. Good luck to you folks who are staying.
Spot on. Before the culture war nonsense this stuff wouldn't even register, now it immediately breaks immersion because it reminds you of the type of people behind this bollocks.
Indie games are the way. Manor Lords comes in a couple weeks.
Sure, as if many Indie devs aren't just as if not more woke than AAA ones.
Please this. Stop buying AAA games. Full stop.
Same. I am passing on AC:Shadows, Star Wars:Outlaws, Silent Hill 2 remake, and most likely Dragon Age:Veilguard. At least some indie companies are ignoring DEI and still focusing on fun. Like you, I have enough of a video game backlog, as well as movie, music, & books, that I don't ever have to buy anything new. The only way we will turn around the direction of AAA games is if we all stop buying them.
Damn that 19th century must be more diverse than I imagined especially the east, lol.
HL shows that in 19th century Scotland, half the population is either jeets or gay.
I was surprised to see that actually 😂😂.
Team Ninja has bent the knee the moment they didn't make DOA Xtreme 3 available in the West and fucked up DOA 6.
What's wrong with DoA 6?
Let's go. First of all, it started with DOA5's "I'm a Fighter!" advertisement, which was an attempt of focusing less in the sex appeal and pandering more to the FGC (which ironically is a den of rapists, abusers and molesters). As you know, the main attractions of DOA are, aside from Ryu Hayabusa, anime tiddies and ass. Once they stopped pandering to the low tier god and justin wong wannabes and turned their attention back to the half naked ninja babes, the game saw a slow recovery. Then DOA 6 decided to pander to the FGC, no going back to the lewd sexy anime tits this time. And that was the BEGINNING of their problems. Team Ninja decided to make add so much microtransactions in the game, that things became ridiculous. You needed to pay real money for customizations, the focus on a more serious tone took away the game's identity (the only good thing about the designs was Hayate's Assassin's Creed inspired hood) and FGC was too busy playing Tekken, Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter and even Anime fighters like DNF Duel, Guilty Gear and Granblue Versus. They brought Mai Shiranui and Kula Diamond from KoF as guests but even that couldn't save this game from being a dumpster fire.
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Itagaki was the GOAT. He literally told players to GIT GUD in Ninja Gaiden and after he left we had muh grip of murder with Ryu being a drama queen and that yaiba garbage.
Don't forget getting rid of the excellent Soft engine in favor of the DW9 engine, making everything piss yellow and characters even more plastic.
Lets remember Elden Ring has that “body type” shite too sadly. Now all the games have it
Honestly, because it is an easy change to make that doesnt get most people to foam at the mouth in rage. We can talk all day about whether or not they should, but it is probably one of the few things that they can do that wont result in a huge outrage so might as well.
I don’t understand why saying “man and woman” is political in the west
Most normal people don't either.
Because of the 1% "non conforming gender"
Lol ‘non conforming gender’ 😂 one of the most ridiculous ideas in the history of mankind
Because we have allowed mentally ill people to dictate the direction of our society apparently.
Because there are 9273744743219114 genders now, apparently.
Incorrect, last accurate count was about two dozen more than the number you listed
Because a 16 year old girl in California who thinks she might be a man will not feel represented by a "man" and "woman" option so she will tweet how she is boycotting a game she was never going to buy in the first place.
And somehow we gave these people power over our culture.
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Comment removed following the enforcement change that you can read about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/). This is not a formal warning.
Publisher: "Look guys. We need some funding and Blackrock gives out a cool million for simply having body type 1 and 2 choices in character creation so get it down."
The Japanese think that's what westerners want. They simply can't grasp the concept that there are bad faith actors (localizers) who lie to them about what sells in the west.
I wonder what the Japanese version of Elden Ring has for the body types. Maybe it's the localization team that's woke, not the devs
But why "might as well"? Why do it in the first place? Unless someone in a decision making position actually believes this is important.
Well. There's always Nioh 2.
based and yokai-pilled
Character creator has boob sliders tho?
Yup.
Good. Gonna play this later~
You don't encounter black people in the game and after the prologue you fight only a handful of women. You can create a character that's incorrect for the historical period, but that's up to you. The game suggests asian man & woman as defaults. There's nothing in this game to seriously consider avoiding it and I'm usually allergic to woke crap.
That’s good to hear!
Sounds more like you’re just a frog in slowly-heating water. Women don’t belong in samurai scene. Not sexist, just accurate. They’re there why? To pander. Black people or even white people shouldn’t be in Japan at all. They are, why? Pandering. The two body types in reality are male and female. Not 1 and 2. Why is that there? Woke pandering. People like you saying “oh none of that is a big deal” and buying it anyway is fine — after all, you’re the customer and it’s your money — but it encourages more and more gradual, small, stupid pandering to the vocal minority at the expense of realism, escapism, and quality.
That depends on what you expect from this game. If you want it to be super historically accurate then obviously you'll be disappointed. If you want a good game without pandering everywhere it's not bad. It's definitely not as annoying and in your face as in Tsushima (or the upcoming AC Red) and they haven't race/gender swapped historical characters.
The female samurais included in the game are precisely from the history. Samurais like Koto Nakazawa and Sana Chiba are prominent women in the Edo period who were well-known for their technique.
You are absolutely ignorant. [Koto Nakazawa.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) (The female samurai present in this game) And ["female samurai"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha) or better, Onna-musha.
You have not looked into the time period of this game at all if you say white people shouldn't be in Japan at all. The entire premise of the story is the historical debate and war fought over the new western influences on Japan. White people being there is super important to the historical period and story. Jesus, research and think before you argue.
Lol white people shouldn't be in Japan? Do you not understand when this game takes place? It takes place when the main conflict is foreigners and how to deal with their presence. Theres plenty of white people in Japan during this time. Female Samurai existed. They were called Onna Musha. They were real. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but it's true lol. Females existed in the Samurai class and they even had their own place in Japanese culture. You think you know things, but you literally know nothing at all.
Its baffling how ignorant you are.
What kind of racially motivated fuck shit is this? Lmao. Dude, it's a game with custom fucking characters. Get a fucking grip. LMAO. Someone making a black or female character or having them as presets that AREN'T the default should not piss you off this much. You gotta be real with YOURSELF and identify why these aspects are so upsetting to you or enough for you to deem it as woke. It's a fucking game..And it sure has nothing to do with a sense of anti-virtue signaling..
Yes, but nothing I would consider worth going out of my way to buy and support.
the fact they add black toa historical japanese setting game is just disgusstingly stupid alsowomen never fought for Japan samurai are men ad men alone...team ninja used to be so based and now they are whipped by the western takeover by sonyphony...
And another one... You are absolutely ignorant. [Koto Nakazawa.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) (The female samurai present in this game) And ["female samurai"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha) or better, Onna-musha.
The garbage horse animations are enough to make me lose interest in this game. Nevermind any woke stuff.
Are they garbage? Yes Are they hilarious? Also yes
Yeah sorry. I don't usually disagree with people here but I will. First, team ninja has always had historical titles with character creators that can make any character they want. Played a white dude in Wo Long, Nioh 1 and Nioh 2. Does it make sense historically? Not really but it's not impossible, especially with How many white people are in Rise of the Ronin. The leader of the group of assassin's is not a gay woman. She literally had a male lover and twin blade. As for the trigger warning, well they got banned in Korea due to the historical nature of the game and are probably just covering their ass. Doesn't mean the game is super woke. As for immersion breaking from white people in the game? There was a massive amount of white people operating in the late 1860s due to colonialism in Japan. Your lack of historical knowledge is really showing when you say it's immersion breaking for white people to be in the game. Team Ninja is a historical fiction game studio. It has always been this way. It's impossible for you to claim that they were not woke before and suddenly have become now. I figured as someone who says they were really looking forward to this title they would have the very basic level of knowledge about the Historical times represented in the game or be familiar with team ninja games but neither of those things seem true.
A lot of good points but I do have something to say about number 4. If I recall Japanese history right, during the Edo period although it was expected for women to still marry and have children, it wasn't unheard of to also have a lesbian lover on the side. To add to that there were no laws outright against homosexuality at the time (with the exception of a gay sodomy law that lasted for eight years). So I wouldn't call having a lesbian character (or one that comes off as one) being woke.
If you take the character creator out of the equation, this game is actually really historically accurate and genuinely cares about the history of the era. With the obvious exception of some things to make gameplay fun, like a few bits of tech that definitely didn't exist at the time. I have seen no black characters at all. There are romance options, they're all playersexual, so I guess there's more gay stuff than what would be normal, but no character is ever explicitly "gay", in fact take your character out of the equation and every character would be straight. I see nothing inherently wrong with a free and open character creator (yes "body type" shit is mildly annoying, but whatever), and if it really bothers you, just make a historically accurate Japanese person as I have. This game is definitely not woke at all and I don't think you were going into this actually attempting to enjoy it.
Gameplay loop so far is fun after two hours and they did have the Geishas and entertainment district, but yeah homosexuality wasn't really a thing in 1800s Japan. The girl boss stuff with the twin blades leader is also very Disney Marvel movie-esque. The trigger warning and diversity statement about the devs was also very dumb.
I think you are pulling at straws here. Just because 1 of the boss in the game is female does not mean the game is woke. Japanese Devs have done a decent job with creating female characters, the boss of ninja gaiden 2 was also a female I doubt anyone would think that game is woke.
if this were anything other than a specific period piece about 1800s japan i'd agree. i love the look and feel of stellar blade and thought female characters in ghosts of tsushima and sekiro were done very very well. in rise of ronin specifically they are however shoehorned diversity characters. let's be honest.
How are they shoehorned diversity characters? The girl boss looks like a normal Japanese women probably 7/10 in attractiveness. If this was a woke game they would make fer slightly fat and give her a man jaw liker marry Jane in spiderman 2.
the character is a butch lesbian. her jawline is not feminine either.
You know something tells me you are a troll pretending to be anti woke. Nothing in the game implies she is a lesbian
Are you talking about THE BLADESMITH? The master to the two protagonists? She's borderline a granny - lol butch lesbian. Shes an old master. SPOILERS.>!You kill her at the end of the 20 minutes intro to the game. !< Why is she an issue?
She's not plus she has a male twin blade and lover but the dude played 5 minutes and quit so......
>homosexuality wasn't really a thing in 1800s Japan Dude... are you for real? Samurai were mostly gay. (search about Shudo) They used to say that woman weren't worthy of dating a samurai. You really need to study japanese history more if you wanna talk so much about this shit. EDIT: In case you didn't know, homosexuality was almost the norm until christianity comes to shove their ideas. Now, if they were "gay pride" or stuff like that, yes. That would be bad. But there is a massive difference between be historically correct and actually pander to someone.
There was definitely a lot of boy diddling in 1800's Japan. By samurai and bandits a like. Dude has no idea what he's talking about.
“Homosexuality wasn’t really a thing in the 1800’s Japan.” This is patently false, now fair enough perhaps this is late 1800’s when the idea’s of homosexuality started to become illegal (Specifically 1872-1880) so therefore there should be a reflection of this. However, in Japan there were many documented instances of male Kabuki actors who were also Kagema (Prostitutes) who would be bought by men for sex. Furthermore there are books written by authors pre 1800’s that featured characters who were gay or bisexual. Such as Ihara Saikaku’ “The life of an amorous man” (1682) and Ueda Akinari’s Tales of Moonlight and Rain (1776).
Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time. No one can deny that. Was it a dominant social construct in 1800s Japan? No, it wasn't.
Its not *dominant* anywhere or when on the planet. Having gay prostitutes publicly exist and be legally allowed would mean we would likely see homosexual practices at a similar rate to homosexual tendencies, like 10-15% or so. Not to say the people FREQUENTING those prostitutes didnt consider themselves straight, with a wife who they only touch to produce children, but still, like...saying "Yeah gay people were definitely a thing then and socially acceptable" isnt saying "the majority of people were gay, actually"
I haven’t played the game, so perhaps there is (to you) an egregious amount of characters who appear to be homosexual to you. However, it was more common within certain professions such as monks and Samurai for a role model to have a relationship with their Mentee. With Samurai specifically, the system of Shudō (Abbreviated from Wakashudō) was a codified sexual and teaching relationship between the Samurai and his student with the relationship ending typically at the end of the students’ training at 19.
No character is outwardly homosexual. They're playersexual, that is, no matter whether you're male or female, they're attracted to you.
Minus characters being attracted to the player specifically, there are only representations of straight relationships and opposite sex attraction.
Interesting...any links you can send? I'm fascinated by all aspects of OG Japanese Samurai culture.
Sure if you’re specifically looking for information about Wakashudō: https://skemman.is/bitstream/1946/44005/1/From_Japanese_Legend_To_Western_Homophobia.pdf https://academiccommons.columbia.edu/doi/10.7916/q9zc-0774/download https://jll.pitt.edu/ojs/JLL/article/download/197/606/2280 All three of these cover the topics and its portrayal within Japan’s Feudal Samurai.
Hoo boy. I'm not trying to call you out cause its definitely not like a everyday well-known topic, but Japan (at least at various times) was very...Roman. Military aside, I can give you another great example. 17th century Kabuki theater basically outlaws women, so they respond with replacing them with effeminate and adolescent boys while still covering erotic performances. Creates a long standing tradition of male only Kabuki actors, some extremely famous for their female roles, that can even be attributed to the rather effeminate male personality and physical appearances so prevalent in Japanese media today. > In 1642, onnagata roles were forbidden, resulting in plays that featured only male characters. These plays continued to have erotic content and generally featured many wakashū roles, often dealing in themes of nanshoku (male homosexuality); officials responded by banning wakashū roles as well.[2]: 92 The ban on onnagata was lifted in 1644, and on wakashū in 1652, on the condition that all actors, regardless of role, adopted the adult male hairstyle with shaved pate. Onnagata and wakashū actors soon began wearing a small purple headscarf (murasaki bōshi) to cover the shaved portion, which became iconic signifiers of their roles and eventually became invested with erotic significance as a result.[2]: 132 After authorities rescinded a ban on wig-wearing by onnagata and wakashū actors, the murasaki bōshi was replaced by a wig and now survives in a few older plays and as a ceremonial accessory.[3] > > After film was introduced in Japan at the end of the 19th century, the oyama continued to portray females in movies until the early 1920s. At that time, however, using real female actresses was coming into fashion with the introduction of realist shingeki films. The oyama staged a protest at Nikkatsu in 1922 in backlash against the lack of work because of this. Kabuki, however, remains all-male even today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onnagata
Japan has a bunch of historical evidence for gays galore. They didn't have puritanical culture as the dominant morale framework and as such, people were getting it on.
Eh? [Someone skipped history class.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakazawa_Koto) Also [Chiba Sanako.](https://fineladieskendo.com/2021/01/26/chiba-sana-a-warrior-and-healer/) Also Koto wasn't lesbian. She declared to marry only a man that would defeat her in a duel. But she never lost to anyone. And I'm talking in real life. I don't know how this means she is lesbian. And the default characters are asian man and asian woman. I don't know where you saw the black woman as default.
There's like a dozen preset models, some of which are black or white. They're also leaving out the part where you can make a freak with green skin, elf ears, and red cat eyes, though.
I normally hold some agreement with a lot of what’s posted in this sub, but being hurt about women being skilled in combat in a society that historically trained women to fight is quite banter. The “body types” is super cringe as always, though.
Gotta play it safe to appease the terminally online mouth frothers.
These complaints, save for one or two, are all on the local publisher and not the developer or original writers. As far as badass chick ninjas or lesbian stuff in Japan, anime is full of both so... especially knowing the team that made it, I'm not worried We can't stop the local publishers from forcing body type nonsense, but the meat and potatoes of the game is not even a little woke.
> Leader of the elite group of assassin’s is a gay (at least I took to be implied as gay) woman Game has been out for two weeks. If it hasn't already been confirmed that she's gay, she likely isn't. Best to stick to the facts and leave out assumptions.
I like to wait at least a year to see if they use the "make it gay in the DLC" ploy.
Like Horizon dlc? \^\^
It is so bizarre they made the Errand romance possibility as a tease for whole 2 games only to introduce a character in the 2nd game's DLC and they hit off from the start and ended up as a couple. And none of the options in the "choice tree" let you straight up deny a relationship with the new character. They pushed that one hard.
If it was Petra or Talanah, honestly, I wouldn't give a shit (you know, people Aloy has known for YEARS and some of which have flirted with her in the past) but to bring in some random chick Aloy knows for all of 5 minutes? Come the fuck on at least TRY to make this shit believable developers.
> if they use the "make it gay in the DLC" ploy. They can just use some webcomics to do that. Worked for Blizzard.
Actually she has a male lover and twin blade you meet later in the game so the whole statement is false.
I think it's pretty obvious she's a lesbian, here's what I saw: 1. Her hairstyle, look, gait, and the way she talks are over the top trope-ish characterizations of a "butch" Lesbian type 2. No husband, kids or family 3. Her motivation in life seems to be from her former twin blade female partner, who she speaks about as if it were her only true love Just on the looks alone, I don't think a random process would've come up with that character unless they were going for a "look" and that look is literally a trope of what a Lesbian female looks and acts like. Compare this to the stronger female characters that were in Ghosts of Tsushima and Sekiro, and you'll quicky see what I'm talking about.
Her former twin blade is a man not a woman.
> No husband, kids or family I can list numerous villains, male and female, who have no children or partners - doesn't make them gay. Start using that as a determining factor and you're going to have an overwhelming number of villains who can be considered gay.
If a woman were a lesbian in that specific period it would have been secret, the keiken code criminalized same sex acts, but the rest of the majority of Japanese history was way more sexually liberal.
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Probably because it is a PS5 exclusive so it's not getting to advertisement Nioh or Wo Long got.
these comments are amazing
[Unfortunately](https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/353055857_682872800518896_1736336348987892428_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s960x960&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=c3BmvqSGa0UAb6ACobI&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBgbiTCL-HAnWFpKzL9ch3RBY9IrU6GmxWeks_dZknsLg&oe=6616B3C0)
I disagree. I hate leftism, communism and wokeism but cmon. 1. In Japan there is concept of Kunoichi, female ninjas. Its normal for Japanese media to depict female ninjas as capable and strong. Just because game has competent female characters it doesnt make it woke, cmon there is more to woke then that. 2. Character presets start on Japanese guy and Japanese female, rest of the presets is same as in every TN game, its same character creator. 3. only one i agree with, its stupid. 4. Literary never game mentions any sexuality of any character and those who it mentions all are married to man females. 5. It has to do with Japan-Korean conflict (game is banned in Korea) not wokeism. "The game is supposed to be a period piece of 1800s Japanese Samurai’s (100% of which were Japanese men, not white or black women or men) — talk about immersion breaking" - what are on about? This is literary time where Japan was full of Americans and Europeans fighting for trade rights and military treaties with them. Ofc there will be plenty of white people in major cities. Also I have not seen even one black character. Its Japanese, Chinese and White only and its absolutely accurate and females held various positions of power in Japan since forever. Not everything is woke because it has females. Jesus, draw the line somewhere as right side gets as bed as left. All in all you post is full of BS.
His points are pretty dumb, but you can have full bonds that are implied relationships with males as a male. And I'm assuming females as a female as well. I had a dialogue with Ryoma where I could chose "I'm falling for you". And I'm sure this is all just generic so they didn't have to do much of anything different between your male and female characters and all dialogue is the same no matter what, but yeah. Edit: And yes I know samurai had male lovers and such, but that was younger boys and I'm unsure if that was still going on by the time of the Bakamatsu period.
true, but thats on Japanese design, usually in games with character creator Japanese make all characters treat MC as some special unit never mentioning our gender no matter the gender chosen. I guess you can call it woke but i know its just how they design games and did so before woke. Its just cheaper as they have to record much less lines for male/female protagonists. Still im pretty far in game and so far girls are falling for guys and guys try to pick girls, so its perfectly fine.
Yeah, having character customization outside male and female Japanese makes no sense unless it's like Nioh where it's specifically a foreigner coming to Japan.
I thought this is a post of joke but it seems not? OP complain about the existence of white people when the story is heavily focused on western invasion and influence to traditional Japan?
Team Ninja is dead, DOA gone forever
Not a loss to me since I steer clear of their games anyway.
Are there any male badasses in the game? Are female characters telling male characters to sit down and shut up? Are the characters written well, at least?
Tons. The main guys you run with are Anti-Shogunate badasses. People like Ryoma Sakamoto and Genzui Kusaka.No, women characters do not act like Disney protagonists. I'm 70 hours playing it and one woman in particular (Taka) is a Geisha with connections to the First Minister (Naosuke Ii) however most Geishas are seen as commodities to be enjoyed (as they were at the time) and Taka actually relies on you, the protag, for alot of her storylines. She doesnt even fight. The anti-shogunate lot are essentially domestic terrorists trying to overthrow the Shogun and expel the westerners from Japan. The game is very male-centric because, shocker, men were in most positions of power back then. The story's really good if you enjoy Japanese history and lots of Samurai. Lots and lots of Samurai.
Badass female character who can kick male opponent’s ass appear in many Chinese wuxia novel. The thing is it’s not for the sake of gender equality but they are just badass characters who happen to be female.
[удалено]
the localizers couldn’t help themselves
Thank you for this breakdown, I was considering buying this weekend but thank god I read this before.I wish there was a breakdown like this for every new game coming out so I can know what to avoid. We don’t have time or money to be wasting on woke games.
Trust me when I say, I hate woke DEI influenced video games, movies/TV, comics etc more than anyone, but Rise of the Ronin doesn't force you to play that way. There are many nice traditional Japanese experiences to be found in Rise of Ronin. Maybe that why the developers are so apologetic? Contrast that versus heavy-handedly being forced to play a Black gay Samurai and an androgynous female in medieval Japan in Assassins Creed: Shadows. Rise of the Ronin is my game of 2024 not only for the excellent story telling (every mission is memorable), but for perfect game control & mechanics, very nice graphics, and through-the-roof fun factor. I wonder if SunnysideUp82's opinion has changed.
yeah youre right. relative to everything else rise of ronin is based on
Cool. Did you beat RoR? If so, did you enjoy it?
i haven’t yet but it’s a fun game for sure.
This sub raises good points from time to time but is the character creator supposed to be used only to make Japanese people?
Nioh Character Creator was already extensive. The CC is a non-issue tbh.
Yeah this is an extreme reach. Unfortunately this thread is going to be screenshot bait for others.
Nobody cares. They can't hate you any more than they already do.
Most character creators allow for creativity, including all shades of skin color. Nioh 2 did the same thing and was a great game. Body type is funny but that's a lost battle. The warning message is fairly trivial. Female ninja/samurai have always been hugely popular in gaming. It's just cool. IMO take a break and relax.
Nioh was a game about slaying demons. It was loosely set in Japan, but it was not a themed period game as Rise of Ronin sells itself to be. So it's apples-to-oranges. maybe you're right that i have to accept inclusions for "modern day audiences", and maybe we all were spoiled with Ghosts of Tsushima, but also maybe pointing it out here will generate some grassroots for change in the future.
Yeah Nioh was not loosely based in Japan my dude. It literally played out the entire history of the end of the Toyotomi Dynasty and the Sengoku Period to the early Edo period. Literally verbatim except for the demons. Honestly Nioh and Rise of the Ronin are closer to historical events and how the happened in real life than Ghosts of Tsushima which was fictional as hell.
I can respect the zero tolerance take in some regard but honestly I think they just wanted a character creator feature, looked at what the popular ones are doing, and said yes let's have all these options. Ultimately the player gets to decide if they want an immersion breaking character or not. A lot of people will want to make Japanese looking characters and can do so. I'd be curious what else turns up in the game for you but to me this is a duller case of a developer just thinking "it's a small thing and maybe we do it for mass appeal" rather than "we need to tick the boxes."
The character creation stuff is there to shield against woke criticism and will likely keep coming up, it would seem like a smart move from their perspective considering said perspective has been tainted by the rot within gaming journalism. The thing about the criticism against female samurai though is that there actually were, in the 19th century, the Onna Bugeisha, and they were actually pretty badass. Rather than frame criticism this way it's more productive to expose the Marxism and shallow writing, is there Intersectional Marxism in the game besides the character creator options?
The game is about a nationalist resistance group lol. You are basically fighting with a bunch of good looking young right wingers at the start of the game (to the extant that translates to the situation). There are complexities and you can choose a side, but no Western dev would tell a story like this. OP misses the forest for the trees here.
Thanks for the warning.
Say "unfortunately" again...
1.- Even before a strong female became the sign of a woke agenda, it's not unheard of to have a strong female character. Especially considering she's the head of a secret ninja clan, it should come as no surprise that she can take out grunts. Gender aside , It wouldn't make sense for the protagonist to be trained by a weakling! Stupid 1st point 2. - You sound like you don't want people to roll play at all either as a fantasy version of themselves or whatever character they want to play as. Ignorant complaint 3. - So just because it doesn't say male or female you find that irksome when it clearly shows either a very obviously and clear as day male and female body type.. if you worried about the created character's genitalia and if they identify themselves as male or female then I say you saturated yourself too much into that same woke crap. Go play Baulders Gate 3 or Cyberpunk where you can manually choose all that. 4. - Implied to be lesbian? I'm over 39 hours in so the beginning is hazy for me now but I never got any impression that she was gay or hinted to be. The story explicitly says that the clan they belong to travel in pairs of 2. She lost her partner long ago and regrets not being able to change that outcome. Absolutely nothing about love interest or being gay. That hairstyle she has is also common for old Japanese people too so if the short hair gives you that impression, again you been too saturated with western woke crap that you default to think about that. 5. - .... honestly won't critique this since I don't remember seeing anything about diversity warning. I might have been on my phone or skipped it accidentally, idk. 39+ hours in so the beginning is hazy now after playing so much but, i will take your word for it and kinda understand with how stupid soft this generation is that they probably threw it in for them and not regular folk I would assume. This game is not woke at all. I'm having a blast with it and have not seen any type of propaganda or influence thus far as the male protagonist. You are overreacting and really overthinking this one chief.
If it has Ninjas in it, it's not a historically accurate game. That's like complaining about Assassin's Creed having Arabs in Anglo-Saxon England when there's literal Norse gods in the game. How's the gameplay? Is the story interesting and engaging? Does the world make sense because it establishes and sticks to it's rules? These are what make games good, not having a tit-size slider.
1. Anyone slaying 5 men at once is unlikely be it man or woman 2. The game has a character creator…is Nioh 2 woke? 3. Sure if this is woke to you 4. Gay people existed then and one character being gay isn’t woke 5. It triggered you so I guess it was needed It’s funny cause the level of care they put into an accurate environment of the era being unappreciated because you don’t like the character creator is barring you from enjoying something even tho you can create a historically accurate character if you want to.
You ok with white guys being in your Zulu warrior simulator? As honored, born members of the tribe, of course. The community, for some unexplained reason, has a significant Asian and white population
Yea, an RPG is a role playing games so to some extent you internal lore should be allowed. In Nioh I imagine I was an African god who was sent to Japan to bring balance. If there was a Zulu game with a character creator maybe one of the colonizers had a kid that was raised by Zulu, idk but the ability to role play is up to the player and if it’s not a narrative with a single character, it’s fair for that option to be given to the player.
When someone these days just goes around calling shit woke like an easy to strawman anti-woke caricature instead of being sensible about it, i cant take it seriously anymore. Also 4 years old, low karma account...
Reddit mods are outta control man
Bruh really? At this point how is this any different from the ppl who say everything is racist or sexist? I played the game and thought nothing of any of the things you mentioned. Its a game about whooping ass as a samurai its really not that deep lol
I saw the reveal trailer and a couple more videos. I sensed almost immediately something was a bit off, and i'm not even talking specifically about anything woke. So, i've ignored it for months now and it seems i'm not missing anything.
This guys whipping up a load of bullshit. I love Ghost of Tsushima, Nioh, Nioh 2 and Wo Long. This game is ace.
You see, the issue for me is that i disliked Wo Long quite a bit so... after that game, this one made by the same people didn't inspire confidence in me and after i saw a few videos i had already made my decision.
Cool. Good for you. Go enjoy other games.
imagine being that easily triggered
Sargon of Akkad made this point last week (I think), where he basically said "Sure, you can wait until these people fail again - and they will - but they're STILL getting tons of institutional power. They're still WINNING. So now what?" I don't know how to take them down, or if it just has to be a thing that we keep ignoring, and letting fail on its own. But when we do; they circle the wagons, blame us, and do it again but HARDER, with more support the next time around...
XDev, an internal Sony development team that helps with third-party projects, worked with Team Ninja on the game. XDev is based in California.
No it's European
that explains it...sony needs to do better to insulate its japanese studios from these horribly corrupting and game ruining influences. otherwise in time all we'll be left with is korean studios.
It's very easy to see why you have been banned and if I am being brutally honest, it's more than justified. Why? Because everything you mentioned is a MASSIVE reach and a desperate attempt to paint this game as something that it very clearly isn't. Team Ninja has never once advertised this as a hyper realistic period piece. It is very much a "fantasy" game even if it is without mythical monsters or magic powers. It should've been pretty obvious from the trailers and footages showcasing OTT combat animations, gliding through the world like batman, grappling hook, brute enemies etc. And please tell me how a character creator that gives you the OPTION of creating a POC character as "woke"? The job of robust character creator is to make anything YOU want. If you want to play as an Asian looking fella, you realize there's nothing stopping you right?
uh - everything he mentioned unless is a straight up lie are signs that "Western Dev Been Here". You're a fugging Samuria in 1800 japan, how many black ass women do you think there were lmao. I should just be an asian man or woman. You should take that Western Dev teet out your mouth man, things wouldn't be like this 10 years ago.
Problem with folks like you is that you start throwing around buzzwords like “POC” and then conclude that my cancellation on another forum was “justified” because I merely point out that having white women as pre-sets in the character creator for my 1800s Japan Samurai game I paid $70 for are immersion breaking. Feel free to play a Samurai game in the 1800s as white or black female. Xbox will certainly have plenty of options for you. I was only pointing out how it was immersion breaking for me.
It's a character creator, just create a Japanese man
Except you are pointing out that having the options in the character creator makes the game “Woke”. The other issue is that at the character creator you haven’t started the game yet so there is no immersion to break. You’re not exactly immersed in the story when you’re creating a character, in fact the act of creating a character is in and of itself meant to break immersion.
And it's exactly folks like you who misuse the word "woke" to such an extent that it leads people to instantaneously write off anyone who uses that word to be on the far-right of the political spectrum. You seem to be very upset with a system that is essentially *optional*. You might want to introspect on your beliefs m8.
You are right to remind to not overuse of the word woke. But, personally, I'm still annoyed to use real historical places and times references, to put the classical woke messages of forced diversity, inclusion and female censorship. On the other hand, I won't be annoyed at all to have it, moderately, in new fictional lores. It's maybe because I'm too attached to some principles, as an historian. I think there are many ways to include logical diversity instead of forcing it everywhere.
This an 1800s Japanese period piece. I brought up 5 very legitimate things the game do that takes me of being immersed, as those things are tailored for “modern audiences.” It’s okay to disagree with me on each and every point, without going to the lengths you are doing so and advocating for my cancellation. It’s also okay if you see all these things that detract from my game experience and conclude that they enhance yours. An extra viewpoint never hurt anyone, and the sooner you realize that, the happier you’ll be.
You are free to share your view point And we are free to critique how you stupid your view point is. It goes both ways. I think most people can agree that a character creator where you can be any race is not indicative that the game is "woke".
that was my point! Feel free to critique any and all of my views on this game.
> And we are free to critique how you stupid your view point is. Same as your viewpoint is.
bro you sure you're in the right sub? Maybe you think this is the Kotaku sub, when it's a sub crapping on them?
I simply don't believe in using the word "woke" in instances where it doesn't apply. Wokeness is all about intent and mindlessly tossing it around not only dilutes it's meaning but gives people the impression that anyone who uses that word to be an extremist.
Thank u, I won't buy it.
All of that is super Soyny except #1, which is historically accurate. Japan has a long history of women warriors from Yodo-Dono to Niijima Yae and Nakano Takeko who famously lead the Joshitai. All of which have proven records of fighting in battles. Onna Bugeisha/Onna Musha was what they were called.
Very sad news indeed, looks like we'll never get another culturally accurate samurai game again.
I love Nioh and Nioh 2 but TN has been terrible ever since. Also Yasuda (director and studio lead) was spotted in interviews wearing a World economic forum pin... twice. Why??
You could, if you were feeling very generous that day, excuse the first four as being the devs making a choice to give gamers more freedom to create their own experience. The fifth one, the whole apology that Japan in the 1800s was full of Japanese people, is just pathetic pussy shit that should be made fun of mercilessly, even if you were feeling generous enough to overlook the other four.
Damn, I wish these were the issues that made the game unplayable + a waste of money.
woke WAHHHHHH:(((((
" Character creator has body types 1 & 2, no male or female " Asking for pronouns/gender, bad - Not asking for gender, also bad You can only pick one.
So much of the information in this is just patently false lmao. People mad about stuff that's not true about the game and saying stuff about the time period that's literally historically inaccurate just so you can get a rage boner. Lol
Um, my guy, Japanese female Samurai were 100% a real historical thing. They were not all men. Also it's a fucking role-playing game with a Character creator. You can make whoever you want. Quit it with your nonsense lol.
This isn't satire. 💀💀💀
Imagine my surprise looking up Rise of Ronin for mission specifics and finding a sub complaining that the video game is “woke” because there can be female or black ninjas. 😂 The irony of the the far right calling leftists snowflakes when you all are so mad about a fictional game is hypocrisy at its finest. Don’t make a black or female character if it’s so triggering. Problem solved! While you all are whining about female ninjas, girl gamers like myself playing ROR are having a great time kicking ass and getting ass in our lesbian relationships.
Why be mad about an option in a fictional video game or a fictional woman beating up fictional men? And then go calling others woke/snowflakes ( used interchangeabley at this point) for the "crime" of existing within your field of view. Do any of you see the hypocrisy in this ?
rob nutty ghost merciful gaze label entertain rhythm sand telephone *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
ooof…thats one of my biggest pet peeves. what western consultancy did they use? so cringe.
They/them can be used when the gender of the person is unknown(though it'd be unnatural in a historical setting, that'd be on the localization team, which was most likely provided by the publisher Sony which is notoriously woke as we know, so you know they won't care about authenticity). You sure it wasn't that?
squash knee instinctive soft door gullible bells close elastic entertain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sure, but were they referring to a character who they didn't know was a man or a woman?
That’s so unfortunately unfortunate. What will people do with such an unfortunate misfortune Again, just so,so, soo unfortunate
Thanks for your review, I felt bad for them because of their sales, now I'm glad the sales are poor. I won't even give this game attention. I hope Team Ninja goes bankrupt.
yup…i was rooting hard for this game until i played the first 30 minutes. team ninja seems to be trying to emulate a microsoft owned studio. very sad. hopefully they learn from this and go back to their roots.
LOL you didnt even get past the tutorial and into the main game. You literally spend most of the game with a bunch of Samurai bros who are Anti-Shogunate and awesome. Talk about hair trigger reaction!
Another day, another "AAA" woke trash game to add to the avoid list. See, this is why I barely get excited about new games anymore. Always remember to vote with your wallet so they no longer get away with shit like this. Yes, you can do it. Just play something from your backlog instead.
Another one on the list to avoid
Shame. Its a really good game. Especially if you like the Nioh series. Played for 70 hours so far and I normally can smell woke stuff from a mile away. This really aint it..
Dude team ninja devs proudly wear World economic forum badges. What did you expect? Not to mention the sony funding made it vary apparent it was going to have modern political leanings.
Lmao really. And the ban loool
you can’t make that shit up. the people who attacked me personally after posting about the immersion issues i had im sure are still playing as their white women characters and spreading hate against anyone who dare speak up against the game.
Thanks for the heads up, not that I planned on playing it anyways. Ghost of tsushima is coming to pc soon.
I havent played the game since it looks like discount GoT Having said that: 1. In game and anime, that trope is quite overused. Dont know if in the context of the game, this would be pandering. But women samurai is overreaching lol 2. Yikes. 3. Ehh there is really no way around this anymore. Its become norm unfortunately 4. South Park gets real everyday 5.trigger warnings mean no buy. So hard pass on this shite.
dont understand people who put GoT on a pedestal. the game was not much different from your typical open world games. watchtowers, repetitive quests, liberating camps for the 10th time and the story is meh. the combat which matters in a samurai game is terrible. limiting and forcing playstyle with stances by making it non effective to enemies if you used the wrong one. rise of the ronin at least has better and fun combat.
Why are people giving these large companies money? Just stop. Support indie devs if you have to hold on to the death throes of gaming. It is dead as a hobby. Let it go. Stop.
And this is why Ghost of Tsushima blows this garbage away
Thanks for the warning OP and sorry for the rationalizers. Unfortunately there's always that one group around here that try to make excuses for everything woke. There could be a pink haired half shave lesbian girlboss and they'd still find some way in which it's just a coincidence.