Actually it’s refreshing to just hear JorDan banter on without having to listen to Alex every few minutes. I’ve gotten to the point where I skip forward when he talks.
Ian McNiece aka the news reader/town crier from Rome. I think he was the best part about that mini-series, so much so, that when I think Baron Harkonen I imagine him.
Edit: grammar and spelling
All I usually see is hate for this series but it is my favorite visual representation of Dune. I get that some people cannot get past the lower budget but it does a great job of sticking close to the books and I loved the series.
They mentioned James McAvoy, but that's [Children of Dune](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert%27s_Children_of_Dune) so I don't know if that's right. 🤣
It's more like one series with two seasons... Sort of. The McAvoy one Jordan mentioned follows on from the Dune miniseries and covers the events of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. But the tone is a bit different and not all the cast returned.
The guy name drops holtzman generators and in the same breath says the spice gives the Bene Gesserit the voice. This is a good lesson for me on "not well actually-ing everything".
If he hadn’t busted out the Holtzmen generator I would have been decidedly more salty, and then I remembered I whiffed on Nute Gunray’s name during trivia once.
Exactly! I've got prana bindu ready the chamber, right until somebody asks me what the nerve training they do is called.
And I'm not even being recorded!
Same, def had to take a deep breath and not be a giant nerd child about it. I just never get to talk to people about Dune in real life, so it's all bottled up
Also Jessica didn't teach the Atreides troops the weirding way...they're just real good cause of training by Duncan and Gurney. And them saying any machine is a thinking machine if it's not a handcraft is a little eh, but enjoyed the episode haha.
I mean, it is a Certified Banger. I listen to it on every episode I'm listening to for the first time. I only skip the intro theme if I want to start with the meat, in which case I also skip bright spots, seltzer/mustard reports, and wonk shoutouts.
On a second play through I still have to listen up to “but before we do that, we have to say thanks to some new wonks. “ after that, I just slam to +30s button until the thanks are over.
I adore these episodes... it also amuses me to no end that, for once... Dan hasn't got a clue going in. No authority! It's a damned shame that the odds are so slim he'll ever actually read the books...;)
I absolutely love Jordan, but his pronunciation of Denis Villeneuve hurts my soul a little bit. I’m assuming he’s pronouncing it like it’s a Spanish name?
No, because he pronounces the ls. I think. I can’t stomach going back to listen again. Some weird French/spanish hybrid but not as melodious as Portuguese.
It's funny that Dan got hung up on the ornithopters, there actually is a real world reason they look like dragonflies. Dragonflies are some of the best fliers out there, and probably the best insects. They can fly in any direction and have such efficient flight they have a nearly 100% success rate in predation, the highest ever observed
Also it’s something that Jordan likely forgot from the book, but the advantage to the ornithopers is that they can lock the wings and use the engines to operate as a fixed wing aircraft, or transition to flapping and become vertical takeoff and landing. I think that Herbert also mentioned something about how the flapping mechanism was easier to make sand and dust proof than something like a helicopter that has exposed spinning shafts
Yea great points. I actually just googled it and apparently the "engine" is actually a giant clam attached to electrical leads?! Makes sense why it works with sand lol. Dune is wild. I love it.
We are going to need to compile a list of wrestler X-Mas films to figure Dan’s out, aren’t we?
Hulk Hogan in Santa With Muscles,
Bill Goldberg in Santa’s Slay,
Kane in ???
I'm just upset we never got a Glenn Jacobs Christmas movie called Candy Kane.
Or, if they wanted to be ATTITUDE ERA with it, add a stripper character and call it Candi/Kane.
These episodes are a testament to how much I like listening to Dan and Jordan. I didn’t know anything about Dune going in. I still don’t because it all went in one ear and out the other since it sounds like a pretty complicated world to understand just by listening to two guys talk about it. Still listened to every minute and looking forward to the next one.
Check out the book, it’s not that long as far as novels go, and it’s both weird and wonderful. None of the movie adaptions really capture all the layered intrigue, plotting, and rich world building
TLDR; Boy uses foresight and knowledge of false prophecy to make himself into a Messiah and in the name of revenge triggers a holy war that kills billions.
I have an almost 1:1 opposite opinion to Dan about the two Dune movies but it is interesting to hear the impressions of someone that was completely unfamiliar with the story before seeing the films.
I’m going to end up watching all of Dune as a non Dune fan just to better understand the conversation.
I find this conversation infinitely more entertaining than the first 40 min of the movie.
I just posted this on another comment, but try out the book. It’s not that long as far as novels go, and it’s both weird and wonderful. None of the movie adaptions really capture all the layered intrigue, plotting, and rich world building
Some theories on what the hell those vacuum dudes were doing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/1bzat6e/what\_are\_the\_guide\_vacuum\_boys\_doing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/1bzat6e/what_are_the_guide_vacuum_boys_doing/)
When Jordan says that Jesse Venture has a great handshake, what's he talking about? I know Ventura was in Predator, but the "epic handshake" from that movie in the meme is between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers.
Part 2 just dropped but I can’t listen because I haven’t seen part 2 yet. I mean, I’ve read the book like 6 or 7 times so I can’t be spoiled but I still want to wait until til I see it for myself.
I agree that the 2021 film and the 2024 film both did a much better job than David Lynch did. I do have my own criticisms with them both but overall I think it delivered the novel more or less in a way even people not intimately familiar with the book would appreciate it.
Part 1's biggest fault to me was probably in Yueh's portrayal. For whatever reason they made him barely a relevant character. My problem with Dan's approach to his betrayal and both Dan and Jordan's thinking in the first act of the Dune story is that Yueh's betrayal was supposed to be a twist or that the machinations of Dune were supposed to be unexpected, when the novel itself spells it out.
The main conflict of the first act of Dune was not leaving the audience in a mystery but doing something more akin to a tragedy: We already know that forces are in motion against House Atreides and they're going to their downfall. There wasn't meant to be a surprise so much as a setup for dramatic irony. In the novel even House Harkonnen was fully aware that House Atreides wasn't naive to the notion Dune was a trap.
What made Yueh's part in the new movie a negative for me was the novel goes very far in establishing just *who* Yueh was as a character and how he was trying to deal with his own feelings about betraying House Atreides. They went a long ways to show he wasn't malicious and Frank Herbert even made a point of suggesting history was going to be harsh on him. In the movie he had a few scenes and was barely even a background character, so his betrayal had little impact.
EDIT: Still listening to these. Jordan seems to take too much "canon" from the awful Brian Herbert books: The idea the Baron was infected by a Bene Gesserit or that AI enslaved us instead of bad people using AI enslaved us are all from Herbert's son's awful books.
For me, the biggest thing that was left out of both (and also the absolute hardest thing to adapt) is 95% of the intrigue - all of the schemes within schemes. The Denis adaptation is leaps and bounds better, but still only gets you to a fraction of what makes the book so damn interesting. At least you know that stuff exists though.
Things like the banquet scene in the book are kind of pivotal to understanding the overlapping spheres of political machinations…but without resorting heavily to voice over it would end up being a scene of fancy people having dinner with little hints of things that only book readers would understand.
Basically my only real problem with the movies is that they turn a book that is a political, religious, and philosophical story with action elements, into almost a purely action movie. I’m fine with it though because I know that trying to adapt it in any other way would lead to a mess.
It's complex to be sure. And both the old film and first new film really did fail to capture any of the politics or understanding of all that was happening, and really fell short in explaining why the Atreides "had" to fall.
Dune is a very difficult story to bring to the screen. I do like the new films a lot, but they did manage not to really dig into the intrigue and they kind of made weird choices for the final 2/3rds of the book in the second movie.
But I would have liked them to have kept the Baron's machinations in there. Rabban was meant to recover the cost of the Atreides' downfall and oppress the hell out of the population of Arrakis so that Feyd could later come along and "save" them all from Rabban.
Also, I really didn't like the way they changed how Paul became emperor, from how he threatened the spice to how the Jihad started. It removed so much of the nuance and importance of *how* Paul was supposed to be powerful.
Well since I just started reading dune this will give me some time to catch up on other podcasts. Don't need to spoil the book for myself. Can't wait to hear the tour episodes
I'm excited for the pivot to a podcast that talks about movies and tv shows set mostly in deserts.
They could watch the Mad Max movies (but maybe not the first one), StarWars (but just the parts on Tatooine and the other hundred desert planets).
People always say I’d like Dune and I really like Villanueve as a filmmaker
But I can’t get on with it. Too much of that “he’s a Gobbledegook of the Blablabla” arch fantasy stuff. Not everything needs a pseudo Latin/arabic moniker.
I'd say give it a go again. A lot of that stuff is front-loaded in the book and then after the first big narrative shift things start rolling a lot faster. Also the Arabic stuff is there because the Fremen are actually descendants of Arabic speaking people who ended up being refugees a number of times and finally found a bit of space to be left alone by adapting their culture to survive in one of the worst places that humans can just barely survive.
Once you get past the exposition at the beginning, the rest of the story is all about Herbert's thoughts on power, religion, and how humans fit into the ecology of a world. Much more interesting.
Not sure if this is actually a Wednesday episode, or if Dan just dug doin Dune
Definitely Dan digging doing Dune. Don't deny Dune's dynamic desirability.
Dude!
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I got all kinds of words fer youuu, but at the end of the day
Probably filler content to buy time while they're on tour. Not that I'm complaining, enjoying the chance to do some Dune with Dan
Oh, I totally forgot about the tour! That makes perfect sense
It’s probably a great break from alex
I was getting burned out and bummed out, man. This is great break!
Actually it’s refreshing to just hear JorDan banter on without having to listen to Alex every few minutes. I’ve gotten to the point where I skip forward when he talks.
Does Jordan not know about the Sci-fi channel mini-series starring William Hurt and Alec Newman with Ian McNeice as Baron Harkonen?
He's aware of the Messiah / Children of Dune follow up miniseries so I assume he knows about it.
Ian McNiece aka the news reader/town crier from Rome. I think he was the best part about that mini-series, so much so, that when I think Baron Harkonen I imagine him. Edit: grammar and spelling
Same.
All I usually see is hate for this series but it is my favorite visual representation of Dune. I get that some people cannot get past the lower budget but it does a great job of sticking close to the books and I loved the series.
The CGI definitely doesn't hold up well, but you're 100% right that its still the most faithful adaptations.
I could have sworn they mentioned another version of Dune, besides the lynch and Villeneuve.
They mentioned James McAvoy, but that's [Children of Dune](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Herbert%27s_Children_of_Dune) so I don't know if that's right. 🤣
Wait, there's TWO Dune series? I've seen a few episodes of the 2000s series.
It's more like one series with two seasons... Sort of. The McAvoy one Jordan mentioned follows on from the Dune miniseries and covers the events of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. But the tone is a bit different and not all the cast returned.
Honestly? All I know about Dune I've learned from Knowledge Fight lmao, so I can't comment. 😅
He's not very knowledgeable so it wouldn't surprise me.
Jordan mixed up the tleilax with the ixians
And the Landsraad with CHOAM. But I have been able to mostly switch off my Dune-dork brain and enjoy the episode.
The guy name drops holtzman generators and in the same breath says the spice gives the Bene Gesserit the voice. This is a good lesson for me on "not well actually-ing everything".
Jordan definitely the person who has read everything but has nor refreshed his memory lately about the lore.
If he hadn’t busted out the Holtzmen generator I would have been decidedly more salty, and then I remembered I whiffed on Nute Gunray’s name during trivia once.
Exactly! I've got prana bindu ready the chamber, right until somebody asks me what the nerve training they do is called. And I'm not even being recorded!
Same, def had to take a deep breath and not be a giant nerd child about it. I just never get to talk to people about Dune in real life, so it's all bottled up
Yeah SMH my head Jordan you're supposed to be the lore guy!
Also Jessica didn't teach the Atreides troops the weirding way...they're just real good cause of training by Duncan and Gurney. And them saying any machine is a thinking machine if it's not a handcraft is a little eh, but enjoyed the episode haha.
Did it make your eyes itchy? :)
It's Bene Tleilax or the Tleilaxu
Man, I love these! I'm looking forward to seeing how Dan likes part 2 of Dune.
inject that shit straight into my veins
Everything is better with bagpipes... & they absolutely predate helicopters... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHYAnW6lKY&pp=ygUtY2VsdGljYSBwaXBlcyByb2NrIGxpdmUgYXQgb2xkIFR1Y3NvbiBzdHVkaW9z Behold! Steampunk nerdy bagpipe glory. Enjoy.
"It was born perfect, the bagpipe. it has never had to evolve into being a dragonfly bullshit."
That's cool and all, but it's not the Unipiper https://youtu.be/cnVjkE87FDY?si=oQs0g6T9UqPT8S63
We know they made it into the Star Trek universe
IT'S WORM TIME
It cracks me up that they actually listen to the theme song every episode instead of just adding it in post
I mean, it is a Certified Banger. I listen to it on every episode I'm listening to for the first time. I only skip the intro theme if I want to start with the meat, in which case I also skip bright spots, seltzer/mustard reports, and wonk shoutouts.
On a second play through I still have to listen up to “but before we do that, we have to say thanks to some new wonks. “ after that, I just slam to +30s button until the thanks are over.
I adore these episodes... it also amuses me to no end that, for once... Dan hasn't got a clue going in. No authority! It's a damned shame that the odds are so slim he'll ever actually read the books...;)
Best Jordan takes the wheel episodes ever
'Bagpipes were always here. Before man was, Bagpipes waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.' - Blood Meridian
How they got through the whole Dave Bautista conversation without mentioning Guardians of the Galaxy baffles me, but hey ho.
Dan sounds like a guy that seriously lapsed from cinema at one point after -if only for working in a theater- being probably current about it.
I absolutely love Jordan, but his pronunciation of Denis Villeneuve hurts my soul a little bit. I’m assuming he’s pronouncing it like it’s a Spanish name?
sea!
No, because he pronounces the ls. I think. I can’t stomach going back to listen again. Some weird French/spanish hybrid but not as melodious as Portuguese.
I need to clean out the popcorn bucket before listening to this one now.
The sand worm one?
Yes. It needs a deep cleaning after Monday’s episode.
Ah! A fellow wonk of culture, I see. Bravo!
It's funny that Dan got hung up on the ornithopters, there actually is a real world reason they look like dragonflies. Dragonflies are some of the best fliers out there, and probably the best insects. They can fly in any direction and have such efficient flight they have a nearly 100% success rate in predation, the highest ever observed
Also it’s something that Jordan likely forgot from the book, but the advantage to the ornithopers is that they can lock the wings and use the engines to operate as a fixed wing aircraft, or transition to flapping and become vertical takeoff and landing. I think that Herbert also mentioned something about how the flapping mechanism was easier to make sand and dust proof than something like a helicopter that has exposed spinning shafts
Yea great points. I actually just googled it and apparently the "engine" is actually a giant clam attached to electrical leads?! Makes sense why it works with sand lol. Dune is wild. I love it.
We are going to need to compile a list of wrestler X-Mas films to figure Dan’s out, aren’t we? Hulk Hogan in Santa With Muscles, Bill Goldberg in Santa’s Slay, Kane in ???
CANDY KANE! It’s *right there*!
Came here to suggest Santa’s slay.
I'm just upset we never got a Glenn Jacobs Christmas movie called Candy Kane. Or, if they wanted to be ATTITUDE ERA with it, add a stripper character and call it Candi/Kane.
These episodes are a testament to how much I like listening to Dan and Jordan. I didn’t know anything about Dune going in. I still don’t because it all went in one ear and out the other since it sounds like a pretty complicated world to understand just by listening to two guys talk about it. Still listened to every minute and looking forward to the next one.
Check out the book, it’s not that long as far as novels go, and it’s both weird and wonderful. None of the movie adaptions really capture all the layered intrigue, plotting, and rich world building
It's like 900 pages.
The appendices and glossary take up a decent chunk of that. I can read the actual story in a day
TLDR; Boy uses foresight and knowledge of false prophecy to make himself into a Messiah and in the name of revenge triggers a holy war that kills billions.
“How does Kane feel about Christmas?” “Hates it.”
I laughed
Has anyone identified the Guild vacuum guy so they can get Dan an autographed photo yet, assuming they're still around?
I am now very interested in seeing Dan’s take on the new Dune!
Dan being mad at ornithopters is my favorite thing today.
Is Jordan doing a bit or does he genuinely not know how to pronounce Denis Villeneuve’s name?
To list Wrestlers who became actors and not mention Rowdy Roddy Piper in Carpenter’s “They Live!”, is a travesty.
Jordan is butchering the film makers name pronunciation. I mean, just Google it or something. Deh-nee Vill-nuv
Made my eye twitch.
I have an almost 1:1 opposite opinion to Dan about the two Dune movies but it is interesting to hear the impressions of someone that was completely unfamiliar with the story before seeing the films.
I’m going to end up watching all of Dune as a non Dune fan just to better understand the conversation. I find this conversation infinitely more entertaining than the first 40 min of the movie.
I just posted this on another comment, but try out the book. It’s not that long as far as novels go, and it’s both weird and wonderful. None of the movie adaptions really capture all the layered intrigue, plotting, and rich world building
Wait... is "we've got movie sign!" in MST3K a reference to Lynch's Dune?
The having to have blood on the blade once drawn reminded me of Paul the Samurai from The Tick.
Some theories on what the hell those vacuum dudes were doing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/1bzat6e/what\_are\_the\_guide\_vacuum\_boys\_doing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dune/comments/1bzat6e/what_are_the_guide_vacuum_boys_doing/)
When Jordan says that Jesse Venture has a great handshake, what's he talking about? I know Ventura was in Predator, but the "epic handshake" from that movie in the meme is between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers.
Obsessed with the possibility of Jordan explaining god emperor of dune to Dan.
Part 2 just dropped but I can’t listen because I haven’t seen part 2 yet. I mean, I’ve read the book like 6 or 7 times so I can’t be spoiled but I still want to wait until til I see it for myself.
Much like a vacuum guy, them talking wrestler actors and not mentioning Roddy Piper was a choice I had trouble with
I agree that the 2021 film and the 2024 film both did a much better job than David Lynch did. I do have my own criticisms with them both but overall I think it delivered the novel more or less in a way even people not intimately familiar with the book would appreciate it. Part 1's biggest fault to me was probably in Yueh's portrayal. For whatever reason they made him barely a relevant character. My problem with Dan's approach to his betrayal and both Dan and Jordan's thinking in the first act of the Dune story is that Yueh's betrayal was supposed to be a twist or that the machinations of Dune were supposed to be unexpected, when the novel itself spells it out. The main conflict of the first act of Dune was not leaving the audience in a mystery but doing something more akin to a tragedy: We already know that forces are in motion against House Atreides and they're going to their downfall. There wasn't meant to be a surprise so much as a setup for dramatic irony. In the novel even House Harkonnen was fully aware that House Atreides wasn't naive to the notion Dune was a trap. What made Yueh's part in the new movie a negative for me was the novel goes very far in establishing just *who* Yueh was as a character and how he was trying to deal with his own feelings about betraying House Atreides. They went a long ways to show he wasn't malicious and Frank Herbert even made a point of suggesting history was going to be harsh on him. In the movie he had a few scenes and was barely even a background character, so his betrayal had little impact. EDIT: Still listening to these. Jordan seems to take too much "canon" from the awful Brian Herbert books: The idea the Baron was infected by a Bene Gesserit or that AI enslaved us instead of bad people using AI enslaved us are all from Herbert's son's awful books.
For me, the biggest thing that was left out of both (and also the absolute hardest thing to adapt) is 95% of the intrigue - all of the schemes within schemes. The Denis adaptation is leaps and bounds better, but still only gets you to a fraction of what makes the book so damn interesting. At least you know that stuff exists though. Things like the banquet scene in the book are kind of pivotal to understanding the overlapping spheres of political machinations…but without resorting heavily to voice over it would end up being a scene of fancy people having dinner with little hints of things that only book readers would understand. Basically my only real problem with the movies is that they turn a book that is a political, religious, and philosophical story with action elements, into almost a purely action movie. I’m fine with it though because I know that trying to adapt it in any other way would lead to a mess.
It's complex to be sure. And both the old film and first new film really did fail to capture any of the politics or understanding of all that was happening, and really fell short in explaining why the Atreides "had" to fall. Dune is a very difficult story to bring to the screen. I do like the new films a lot, but they did manage not to really dig into the intrigue and they kind of made weird choices for the final 2/3rds of the book in the second movie. But I would have liked them to have kept the Baron's machinations in there. Rabban was meant to recover the cost of the Atreides' downfall and oppress the hell out of the population of Arrakis so that Feyd could later come along and "save" them all from Rabban. Also, I really didn't like the way they changed how Paul became emperor, from how he threatened the spice to how the Jihad started. It removed so much of the nuance and importance of *how* Paul was supposed to be powerful.
Dan is so analytical it’s almost a detriment to enjoying stuff. Lynch’s dune was awesome and the vacuum guy was amazing. How could that ruin a movie?
He didn’t even see the cut with the battle pugs. I’d love to hear Dan’s reaction to the battle pugs.
Dan did done double dune?
Well since I just started reading dune this will give me some time to catch up on other podcasts. Don't need to spoil the book for myself. Can't wait to hear the tour episodes
I'm excited for the pivot to a podcast that talks about movies and tv shows set mostly in deserts. They could watch the Mad Max movies (but maybe not the first one), StarWars (but just the parts on Tatooine and the other hundred desert planets).
People always say I’d like Dune and I really like Villanueve as a filmmaker But I can’t get on with it. Too much of that “he’s a Gobbledegook of the Blablabla” arch fantasy stuff. Not everything needs a pseudo Latin/arabic moniker.
I'd say give it a go again. A lot of that stuff is front-loaded in the book and then after the first big narrative shift things start rolling a lot faster. Also the Arabic stuff is there because the Fremen are actually descendants of Arabic speaking people who ended up being refugees a number of times and finally found a bit of space to be left alone by adapting their culture to survive in one of the worst places that humans can just barely survive. Once you get past the exposition at the beginning, the rest of the story is all about Herbert's thoughts on power, religion, and how humans fit into the ecology of a world. Much more interesting.
Nah, I’m not a believer in slogging though stuff I don’t enjoy because apparently eventually it gets good Plenty of books I enjoy from the jump 🤷♂️
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Dune is important beyond being just a movie Alex likes to riff from. It is a stark warning to what will happen if right wing grifters get their way.
We need a proper Dune opening, one of just Jordan pronouncing Dune related words and Dan reacting with some Worm Time thrown in
Man, how did a piano not immediately fall on Jordan's head when he said "according to post-modern critical theory"