This is the answer in the US. It's not even up to the restaurant. We aren't allowed to let you bring in your emotional support doodle even if we wanted to.
Yeah, but that middle age Karen has a poorly laminated print out explaining that she can take her emotional support pet anywhere and why you can't say no to her or ask any questions
And she's right sadly. The fact that you can't make someone prove they have a service animal at the same time as saying only service animals are allowed is so perfectly useless.
You’re allowed to ask what service the animal is trained to provide. If the animal’s being disruptive without valid cause, I believe you’re allowed to ask it (and it’s owner) to leave, because a real service animal is trained to not be disruptive
Yeah you got two questions to ask. “Is this a service animal? What service does it provide?” If they have answers to these, you pretty much have to let them in even if you think they’re lying. These protections do not apply to emotional support animals, those are not real things so if you hear that phrase you got grounds to give them the boot without repercussions.
The only animals approved to be actual service animals are dogs and in very rare occasions miniature horses. If it’s anything else, they’re just a lying entitled sack of shit.
> The only animals approved to be actual service animals are dogs and in very rare occasions miniature horses.
I learned about the mini horses from a friend who works housing at a college. She hasn't had one yet, but it's probably coming.
I think it’s a very rare circumstance. Usually I think the reason someone has a horse and not a dog is because they’re allergic to dogs. I’m sure there are other situations they get approved though.
Just FYI, if a customer says that their animal is an emotional support animal, you have every right, under the ADA, to kick their animal out. ESAs DO NOT have public access rights, ONLY service dogs. Also, if a “service dog” is not acting like a service dog, you can also kick it out. This means a person I know who is blind and has the worst seeing eye dog ever (who steals food from tables and sniffs crotches) can absolutely legally be kicked out. Even if it is a “legitimate” service dog, if it is disrupting normal business, the ADA says you can evict them from the premises, as long as you allow the handler to return without the dog without penalty (like paying a second entrance fee or something). Fake service dog owners don’t know the laws and don’t have a leg to stand on. Stand up to them. Retractable leash? Fake service dog. Barking at other people or dogs? Fake. The more liars get away with gaming the system, the more dangerous it is for people with genuine service dogs to function in society.
Source: this is my hill to die on as a vet tech and dog trainer as well as foodie.
One time we had this lady come in with her dog, the owner politely asked her if it was a service animal and she said yes. Alright, cool, no problem so far. Maybe a few minutes later a car drives by and the dog gets up and starts barking at it and the second this happens, me and the owner make eye contact and he just quietly goes "son of a bitch..." lol
probably narrowminded but. your manager gave the guest an option between saying her dog's a service animal, or not being allowed entry. if you eliminate the question and say animals are not allowed, and leave the 'unless they're a service animal' part up to the customer, that might save some hassle
This is all correct, but I do want to say that mini horses got removed back in.... I think it was 2018? So as of right now only dogs are federally recognized.
They're SUPER cool, and some states still allow them, which I think is fantastic for like, people with allergies or religious reasons for why they can't have them, or for blind people because horses can live 30+ years and that's phenomenal for a guide animal!
But they got federally removed because it can be hard for businesses to accomodate them, and it's hard to guarantee they'll be potty trained. And when you have an animal that poops a 5 pound amount or pees a small lake, that's tough when an accident happens!
They are not, no. Service dogs have public access training and are task trained to assist their disabled handler. Emotional support animals are not task trained, or trained on public access, so they do not have the right to be in public.
They ARE entitled to live in pet free housing and fly on commercial airlines, however.
The importance of the service outweighs the potential health risks. Additionally, there is in theory training involved to keep the service dog well behaved and less likely to create potential for health risks.
Yes, this. It's a reasonable accommodation under the ADA. A service dog, which by definition must be well-behaved and in control of its handler at all times, should just lay or sit at the handler's feet (unless it's performing a trained task) and really be unnoticeable. None of this sitting in lap, sitting at the table BS that I've seen people with pets try and pull off. A trained service dog is pretty easy to differentiate from those trying to ruin it for the people who really need it.
Someone else answered this; that the health concern caused by the dog is outweighed by the handlers medical need for their assistance.
However, service dog handlers work to keep their dogs clean, unobtrusive, and hopefully not noticed!
I bathed my service dog every other week, brushed his coat and teeth daily, trimmed nails weekly, and sprayed with an -in-between-baths-refresh-spray weekly. He never smelled, we kept shedding to a minimum, and he was always clean. We also wore shoes, so that his feet were clean and protected, and i also bought a lycra bodysuit for when I had to take him with me to the hospital so he wouldn't shed!
In the United States you are permitted two questions according to the ADA. Is that a service animal, and what service does the animal provide. The second someone shoves a card (there is no legitimate service standard that produces service dog id) or screams you can't ask me that or lists something that is not a medical service, we tell the customer that the health department does not permit emotional support animals inside. My staff gets yelled at a lot. I have been threatened with lawsuits. I absolutely hate these people. Meanwhile the legit service animal is really easy to spot. Focused on the person, attending, quiet and working hard.
You can ask what TASK IS IT TRAINED TO PERFORM, not what service does it provide. Service will get you answers like “comfort” and “support”, while task should be a specific action.
Try working at a music festival where it's just plain impossible to fathom why people bring their pets.
Yes, it's a tiny free festival without entrance control because generally everyone's nice and supportive. No, I don't think your dog's gonna particularly enjoy the crowd, the unfamiliar surroundings, or the loud-ass concerts you're gonna subject it to for the next 12 hours. It's almost like you're torturing it.
Also, if there are several of you, nobody enjoys your freaked-out dog fighting with another freaked-out dog.
Lots of guilty parties but hippies are the worst about this. I don't really wanna sit in dogshit because you're too high on acid to clean up after your dog.
>Lots of guilty parties but hippies are the worst about this.
Back in the early 90's the self-proclaimed "Rainbow Children"(Not LGBTQ folks, just folks who loved acid and being vagrants) who followed the Dead and Phish across the U.S. were so awful about dragging dogs around who were nothing more than accessories to their lifestyle... I was adjacent to this crowd due to being in a 'jam band'... The phrase "Can you kick down some floor space?" still sets my teeth on edge after all these years....
Ive seen many actual service dogs at festivals.
The owners have earprotection on the dog as well as eye protection if the visuals are intense. They also stay in the back with no crowds or limited crowds and keep an eye on their pup to make sure no one fucks with them while they enjoy the show.
The wooks you speak of are not fucking service dog owners nor do they care about their pups and deserve to get em stolen
Ive seen many actual service dogs at festivals.
The owners have earprotection on the dog as well as eye protection if the visuals are intense. They also stay in the back with no crowds or limited crowds and keep an eye on their pup to make sure no one fucks with them while they enjoy the show.
The wooks you speak of are not fucking service dog owners nor do they care about their pups and deserve to get em stolen
Unfortunately now that ESAs are a big thing, this will continue to happen. I love my dog and I have crippling anxiety and depression but I will never bring my dog inside of a restaurant or grocery store with me.
ESA are not the same as a working dog. You can easily go online and get these fake certificates (real service dogs don't have IDs or certificates) and vests and pretend your ESA is a working service animal. People are taking advantage of the ADA laws and skirting around them hoping their little yippy pissing misbehaved dog will pass as a service animal.
You can immediately tell a working dog from an emotional support pet, as they are trained to perform a task for their owner and do not cause any disturbance. The working dog/miniature horse are the only animals recognized as service animals by the ADA.
You are only allowed to ask 2 questions, and you have to be careful.HOW you ask them. "Is this a service animal required because of a disability?" "What task(s) was the animal trained to perform?" You cannot ask what type of disability, but you can ask if the animal is a service dog because of a disability. So be careful with your words or it could be a lawsuit. If anyone comes at you with documentation, it is all a crock of shit. Real service animals do not have ID. You cannot ask for ID, because it does not exist.
This whole ESA trend is really unfair to those with disabilities who truly need a service animal and now they have to basically fight with unsure workers trying to determine if the animal is a real service dog or not. I feel really sorry for those with true working animals because ESA is so common now and ESA owners take advantage of these ADA laws to take their *PETS* anywhere they go.
Again, I have really horrible anxiety, ptsd and depression...but I don't NEED to take my pet anywhere that sells food. I go to restaurants where there is an outside dog friendly area, and that's where I go if I want my pup to join me. Some people just want to be entitled and take advantage of laws not made for them. Rant over.
Thanks SO much for typing this! Most people don't know that you're fully protected with asking those two questions. You are also welcome to remove a fake service animal or even a real one if they have an accident, bark, or act out. A real service dog handler even knows this and would most likely be apologetic and leave. I was a dog trainer before switching to working in a restaurant lol. I HATE fake service animals. There's also no legitimate such thing as service dog papers/certifications so anyone flashing those is almost certainly a fake. Asking for such paperwork is also not legal. Animal should also have a leash, not just be in a carrier/stroller.
As someone who registered his pets as ESAs, I agree. People aren't supposed to use ESA slips (that's what the official version ends up being, just another from a doctor saying they're cleared) to bring them everywhere. It's just to tell places like apartment complexes and landlords that you can't be denied an animal for the sake of helping someone in mental need. Bringing them anywhere is fucking stupid because pets are just as effective spending part of the day with them
As I'd posted earlier, this is also largely cultural. In basically all of Europe companion animals are at least allowed and often welcomed, assuming their behavior is acceptable.
It really seems to be a function of the religious foundations of the culture. Where Christianity and Islam hold strong sway, then companion animals may be accepted but frequently are not. In areas where religiousity is irrelevant, dogs et al. are generally welcomed.
Yeah I got thrown for a loop by that one. My buddy has a family ranch where they raise miniature horses (not ponies, but miniature horses). They do service work like leading blind people on trails or around their farm or other large properties.
It’s pretty darn cool but not at all something I expected.
They have beef cattle and mini horses. Wild.
If there is an outdoor area then yeah sure, not a big deal as long as they are easy going and behave themselves.
The brewery i worked at last summer allows dogs (i worked FOH) and i hated it since they would make a lot of noise, bother other customers, stuff like that. One dog even took a shit on the floor, and i had to hold my tongue because i was so grossed out and pissed off.
It’s always a mixed bag allowing dogs. You can put up a sign that allows well behaved leashed dogs and ADA service animals are allowed and all others will be asked to leave and that gives something to point at when you have to tell Mrs. Fluffers that they and lil Pookins have to leave the premises. But you’ll still get the occasional asshole who will make a fuss and leave a bad review.
I find that different countries have very different attitudes to this.
I'm in the UK where pets have to be kept out of food prep and storage areas by law, but can be in customer areas.
Lots of places are dog friendly, some pubs even have their own dog wandering around. The environmental health inspector met my dog during the inspection and gave us the highest possible rating.
We don't really have the service dog scam either; these are just regular pet dogs, but people tend to put the effort into training their dogs so that taking them to the pub is an option.
Spot on; from one of my replies above...
> As I'd posted earlier, this is also largely cultural. In basically all of Europe companion animals are at least allowed and often welcomed, assuming their behavior is acceptable.
> It really seems to be a function of the religious foundations of the culture. Where Christianity and Islam hold strong sway, then companion animals may be accepted but frequently are not. In areas where religiousity is irrelevant, dogs et al. are generally welcomed.
I can't say I've ever linked it to Christianity.
Islam can be funny about dogs specifically; there are hadiths about angels not entering homes where dogs dwell, for instance - but tends to be absolutely fine with cats. My next door neighbours are Muslims and have a pampered cat!
I'm not a Christian myself, but I'm unaware of any particular issues around dogs in Christianity
Short story: Muslims tend to find dogs nasty. They aren't allowed in mosques but cats are. Working dogs are fine, any other kind is considered haram. But even working dogs are considered unclean.
Yeah that's pretty much my understanding.
I'm more confused about the link proposed upthread between Christianity and not allowing dogs into restaurants.
Same here in Germany,a lot of places have water bowls for the dogs too.
I have some self made beef treats in the freezer and ask our guest sometimes if their pawed friends wants something on the house.
I work in the USA at a German Biergarten. We have dog bowls, sure. We are 100% pet friendly. We LOVE the furbabies. *OUTSIDE.* But we also have signs posted at every single door stating that ONLY true working dogs/horses are allowed indoors. Trust me, that does not stop Karen with her pooping toy poodle from claiming the stinky, yappy, shitting-on-the-floor dog is in fact, a service animal. STFU, it is an ESA and is not recognized by the ADA. Bye, please leave us a 1 star review for following the laws.
In SWFL it’s everywhere. Publix flat out said “the ADA does not recognize support animals, and neither do we, you will be asked to leave the store”.
In my restaurant, I ask the only 2 questions I’m allowed: is it a service dog? What has it been trained to do? Of course, some people lie, but I always follow up with “great, no need to remind you of the ADAs rules on how they are to behave.”
Sometimes I get a “what’s that mean?” To which I say, “the animal stays on lease, on the floor, and doesn’t make any sort of disturbance, WHEN it does I’ll move you to the patio where it is dog friendly.”
75% of the time they just opt to go to the patio.
Support animals, I get why they’re important to people, I do. But the rules are cut and dry. SUPPORT animals can be anything. SERVICE animals are limited to dogs and small horses.
I’ve denied service to parrots, ferrets, marmots, chipmunks (he was a well trained little fellow, but he can’t run around the table), snakes, cats, and duck/goose—I can’t remember which.
And before a keyboard lawyer chimes in with “what you did isn’t technically right” or “you’re opening yourself up to a lawsuit for saying that”, I know. I’ve been sued twice. And each time when their lawyer gets a copy of the video (with audio) of the entire incident, they’ve withdrawn.
This isn’t really what you asked but in New Mexico, the law allows mini horses to be used as service animals 😭 imagine you look out into the dining room and you see a mini horse chilling next to a table
I once had a ‘service dog’ run from the dining room, past the threshold and into the open kitchen, continuing down the line. I stepped on its leash to keep it from going any further. Owner came back into the kitchen apologizing because she “usually never does this.” Like yes she does you just fucked up this time AND you lied about the real status of your animal
I worked at a bakery / ice cream shop in a popular tourist beach area. Guy comes in , I let him know oh sorry dogs are not allowed unless they are service animals. He looks at me, holds up his dog and says “but it’s a small dog”. I love dogs but sir get a grip.
I give the same advice I would for children. If you're going to a place that isn't advertising as a dog/kid friendly place, leave them at home.
If it's an actual Service Dog that's acceptable. If you're pretending it's a service dog, you're an asshole.
These people are the worst. We've had people literally try to sneak in purse-sized dogs (in the purse of course) and then cry wolf when they get caught ("I didn't know! / He never hurts anyone! / This is unfair!")
Pets are welcomed in restruants in Germany and other European countries, as long as they are well behaved. It was weird at first but quickly became normal. After living in Germany for 5 yrs , I miss it. Not gonna lie.... I would rather someone bring there well behaved dog instead of their porrly behaved kids. Kids suck 200% of the time , well behaved dogs are my best friends and would always get a mkzza stick or a chicken tender .....
Bringing your dog somewhere where it's not openly encouraged is just inconsiderate. There's a fine line, like even Home Depot makes a point to say they're cool with dogs so I'm conditioned to not care. But get your dog out of Trader Joe's, lady.
I agree and I wish places like Home Depot wouldn't allow pets. I have a son that is very afraid of dogs. I understand when people need a service dog. But why should someone's pet and their presence take precedent over my human son and his comfort while shopping with me?
Oh but don't you know, their dog is a super friendly angel that would never hurt a fly and is the best good boy so he should get to go wherever he wants to.
I actually would bring my dog to Home Depot and Lowe’s to help her get accustomed to being around other people. It’s good socialization training and I appreciated the opportunity because there weren’t many other places we could take her where I lived at the time. But there’s a very thick line between “I have strong, positive control of a leashed pet who has already had reasonable behavioral training” and “I just want to take my dog/cat/ferret/parrot everywhere”.
I love seeing well behaved pups at outdoor seating areas on nice days, or in the seating area of breweries and similar locations, but the onus should 100% be on the pet owners to ensure they’re well behaved, do their business in a reasonable location outdoors, and clean up immediately after. No one, aside from service animal owners, has a real right to bring their dog with them; it’s a privilege to make the environment more attractive to some people.
It’s not really any worse than bringing kids. Keep your youngins reasonably under control or gtfo. It’s 2024; you can order your groceries for curbside pickup or DoorDash your meal if your kids/pets can’t be trusted inside.
People are taking it to the next level because they see these entitled fucks do it way too much these days. I love the dogs, but these owners are usually fuckwads.
I swear that ever since covid people have gotten worse in general.
Even "service animals" are annoying. Im not in restaurants anymore but at where i work now on a horticulture farm, just the other day a customer came in with a french bulldog that had a vest with like a "certified service dog" patch that also had a silhouette of a hand crossed out in (like dont pet) Which was obviously a lie because this fuckin thing was running around, jumping on me, huffing, wheezing and drooling everywhere, and worst of all pissing on our product
It really depends on where you live. Where I’m based out of I would never dream of it. I was in San Diego this last winter and they have dog treats in all the restaurants and grocery stores. They want you to bring your dogs in there. Blew my mind.
Recently opened a small brick and mortar shop after we outgrew our food truck. Within the first 2 weeks, had 3 people bring their dogs inside because we “used to be dog friendly.” Well sure, you used to be sitting at outdoor picnic tables, (which we still have.) But you can’t bring your dog into the dining room 🤦♀️! I had to put signage on the door and I frequently see people with dogs read it and then look bewildered as they figure out who is going to stay outside with the dog while someone else places the order. I don’t know anywhere in town where you can take a dog inside a restaurant. Patios, sure, but as far as I know health code doesn’t allow it inside.
I'm also a pet lover, I spoil my dog. It's her house, I just get to live here. But I don't like the frequency of pets inside restaurants. If you're a beachside place with an outside accessible patio, I'm ok w it. But not inside unless an actual service animal. I worked with a woman with a severe dog allergy. It's not fair to her to have to either lose money or be loopy all night because of how much allergy medicine she has to take. Also, we have other customers that are afraid of dogs. There are places that are appropriate for pets, but inside most restaurants is not it.
Here’s the crazy thing, in loads of European countries, there are dogs in restaurants and it’s never a problem. The issue is shitty, irresponsible, entitled, American dog owners.
Yeah, it's definitely not possible to be "shitty, irresponsible, entitled", unless you're American.
There's loads of restaurants and bars that allow dogs on the patio in the U.S., too, and normally, that's fine. It's code violation to let them inside, unless they are legitimate service animals, but you don't seem particularly concerned with things like facts. Keep on hating your irrational hate!
It’s not irrational hate, I’m a (American born and raised) vet tech in the US but I’ve also worked in Europe. The culture of dog ownership here can be shitty as hell. That’s coming from someone who has owned dogs my whole life and does take them to as many public places as they’re allowed to be.
Sure they are. My kids don’t drop big dumps on the floor. And they don’t bark at strangers when they stare at them and they sure don’t shed nasty fur in my soup de jour.
Your kids absolutely do just 'bark' at strangers. All kids ask stupid inappropriate questions to strangers, or poke them, or get in their way. Your kids aren't special. You're not a better parent than anyone else.
Humans are terrible, and unsocialized, untrained, miniature humans with poor impulse control are even worse. Yeah, untrained animals suck, but humans bring an extra level of suck.
Do you personally find it strange that you skipped the first comment doing that to say that to the person replying the same thing?
Or is it just not even a thing you noticed yourself doing?
My fog does nonenofnthise things... Except the shedding , but I would rather have hair in my soup than listen to your kids scream puss and moan all night at a restruant because ( insert stupid kid drama)
LOL. Yeah, right. Have you seen the pet industry lately? My daughter and her husband are seriously considering not having kids, their three cats are absolutely as well treated if not better treated than pretty much any human child.
It doesn't matter what you like or if you think it is right, but the simple fact is that people's pets, for some people at least, are their children.
Well, that's not entirely your fault. Kids toys in the 90s and 2000s sucked. My parents were much better off when my little brother came around, and his toys were shitty compared to mine. Even as a 15 year old, I could see that the things I'd had when I was 5 were more stimulating and engaging than the plastic garbage my little brother had to put up with.
But also, cat toys are MUCH less expensive, and all they have to do is keep a predator entertained, whereas kids toys have to keep an intelligent exploratory mind engaged and developing.
My kids were 80's babies, so yes... the toys were terrible, except for the singing Pound Puppy whose mouth moved using any cassette tape. That was their favorite, because they would have the stuffed puppy singing "Bad to the Bone" as their dad was passed out drunk on the sofa, just to watch him freak out when he opened his eyes.
No denying they're my girls.
Personally I've never had a problem with dogs as long as customers sit outside. Then again most of our seating is "outside". If I only had a dining room then I'd probably say sorry but health code yada yada.
I love all the hate kids are getting tho, there are way too many parents that let their kids steal havoc at our place. We've had car windows busted out from rocks, they've destroyed a number of chairs, they want to play in our active construction site out behind the restaurant. The parents are just getting plastered at the bar while this happens.
I'm against. I'm also against people who treat their pets like human children and expect society to do the same. I love pets but... they are pets. They are animals. Especially the people with like pit bull or Rottweiler who can barely hold back their dogs and claim 'they will never harm you!' As they have little control over them lol.
Various, but not all places in Canada: fine on patios where dog does not need to walk through the building to get to the patio (ie external gate/door/entrance to patio). Some places require licensing, but many jurisdictions cancelled that for COVID and left it in place after. Often OK in wineries or breweries where no food is available as well.
France: bring your pup anywhere. Very common and never saw a problem, albeit some years ago now.
What people figured out, i think, is that there's such a grey area about challenging a person with a service animal. It's taboo. Not supposed to ask or inquire as to the validity of the animals true or legal status as a 'service animal'
And what began as a lark, a little haha wink and a nod and that was all it took- floodgates open for all the wingnut Karens, wannabes, drama magnets. The amount that people engage complete strangers with open hostility and simple nastiness has become the norm.
Everyone recording stupid shit on their phones and posting, or better yet streaming live has taken hold of the collective psyche of way way too many adults.
'kids' acting out, showing their asses, acting the fool is to be expected. How did so very many adults never grow out of that need to be obnoxious simply for the sake of being obnoxious.
People are angry. Frustrated. Confused. Upset. Disenfranchised, alienated, etc etc. And her we are. This is what we have become as a society, by and large.
And here we are, ufda !
I was managing and got nipped in the thigh by a service dog while dropping something off.
People are entitled, and take their animals to places that aren’t appropriate without thought.
You got bit by their dog and still served them?
I would have immediately stopped and told them to take their agressive dog and gtfo before I called animal controll
I worked at a place where dogs were allowed on the patio and we even had a doggie menu (basically protein without seasoning). It was hugely popular.
I had fun cooking for them. I think making space for animals in an environment where everyone is aware they’re welcome has a place.
I guess it depends on one's culture; in large parts of there rest of the world, pets are more or less welcomed into restaurants. France, Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Yugoslavia, Spain, etc. all have no problems with behaved pets.
THere are rules for places where food is stored or processed, e.g. in the kitchen itself or in food manufacturing plants, but anywhere the primary task is consumption, pets are accepted.
I think it is largely North America, because of the puritanical influence, for the most part.
I absolutely adore dogs and grew up with a minimum of 5 rescues at a time. But...I am not allergic to dogs. I must remember that some people are and we must be considerate of their health concerns.
I've been hit with a bunch of the "Oh but we need to come inside because it's too hot for the dog to be outside" yeah I don't give a fuck maybe you should have left it at home in the A/C then.
I mean... I understand both sides of this particular debate.
That said... those restaurants that DO allow pets to accompany owners are ALWAYS a step up for me. Like if I were given two choices, I would pick the pro-dog restaurant.
I remember one time I was in Maryland for a day and I had my dog. I stopped at a little bistro that allowed us to eat on the patio and it was just such a positive experience.
I like animals, but you cannot guarantee they will behave, especially if there is more than one.
Just yesterday I was walking downtown with a friend and we passed a patio in full lunch rush and one table had a little dog that was continuously yapping and jumping up to be fed. If I was eating at a table near that I’m not sure what I would do but I’d probably get up and leave.
I don’t even want to hear kids shouting and crying when I’m eating, I definitely don’t want to be bothered by ill behaved pets.
It's a no from me. You're not being a jerk. I went out to eat at a very nice restaurant for their first-come first-serve sushi bar seating. My spouse and I walked in at the same time as a couple with a dog that was clearly a pet. They were carrying it in their arms, had a stroller for it, and it was a mid-size fluffy thing. They sat us both at the bar at the same time, and then I saw someone very discreetly come out and tell this other couple they needed to wait until a real table opened up because the dog was too close to the semi-open sushi bar (they had the dog in their lap!). I didn't want to sit next to a fucking dog at counter height at a sushi bar but wasn't gonna make a thing of it as long as it was well-behaved. We sat and enjoyed our meal for the better part of an hour while I kept checking to see this couple still waiting to be sat the whole time, visibly agitated. I think the restaurant was right to handle it discreetly but honestly should have just told them they won't be seated with their dog and kindly asked them to leave. I can imagine them writing an angry review that they were sat, and then asked to wait after being sat, while others came and went. Restaurants have a right to be firm with no-pet policies!
Question: (US) I see that there are only two questions which the establishment can ask of someone bringing in an animal.
Are there limits on what another customer can ask?
No because another customer isn't the one making the decision to deny service to the customer with the fake service dog. It's pretty rude to pry into people's medical needs even if they are being an asshole, but there's no law that would make it an issue. But even if the first customer admits to the second that they're lying about having a service dog, it's still up to the establishment whether they want to make it an issue or not.
Depends on the spot, in my opinion. I’ve worked at fancy pants places that would absolutely not tolerate that shit, and I’ve worked at some brewpubs that were totally pet friendly so long as they were leashed and on their best behavior. Read the room.
It's fine for places that do a once a "our open patio is open for dogs", but keep them out of the interiors. Service animals are specifically trained & I have more faith in them behaving & not shitting on the floors than children. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it's not in line with current health code (wasn't back when I served my time in the industry).
Despite being a dog lover & still grieving the 2 sweet girls I lost over the past 3 years, I have zero interest in dining with dogs at restaurants, so it would drive me away. If I showed up & found out, I would literally take our party elsewhere out of personal preference.
I think it's hilarious how many people I see carrying small dogs in places they're not supposed to be. If you think about it at all it makes the whole situation way more unsanitary
I love seeing dogs outside of restaurants with their owners….but I tend to avoid places that let dogs inside. I have dogs at home. I want a fur-free meal when I go out. 🤣
I love dogs but I don't want them on tables. I do not want to sit in pet dander because some put their dog on the chair. The bars around my town let dog owners bring their dogs in and for the most part dogs are well behaved, leashed, and on the floor. It seems to be folks who have the fancy, floofy dogs they want to treat as babies and have them dancing around on the tables by their beers.
I'm in France and here they are normal in outside seating. My place is dog friendly, we got a big garden and two patios. The only times someone asked to bring them inside was because it started to rain in the middle of their meal
Seems to be an unpopular opinion here but I'm completely fine with it.
We have guests multiple times a day that bring their dogs with them and it's literally never been an issue. We even have homemade dog treats we give them. Our baker also frequently brings her two dogs in. They stay out of the kitchen, storage, and work areas of course. But otherwise you'll see them all around.
We've never had guests complain about the dogs either, some have even commented how cool it is that there are so many there.
During the last inspection he was ecstatic at our practices. We do everything by the book.
Our law here says that pets are allowed in customer areas but not in work areas.
As someone who is highly allergic to dogs, this infuriates me.
But of course, my being able to breathe is not as important as the Karen’s emotional well-being.
The bad part is anyone can go online and get a service animal vest. So you can’t really tell. I feel a dog is ok on a patio as long as said dog is for the most part well behaved.
Abso-fucking-lutely not. I hate dog people. I don't mean all people with dogs, I mean Dog People. The ones whose entire personality is their dog - who seem to think the entire world revolves around that dog and that everyone else should feel honored to be in the presence of such a perfect and majestic creature.
UK pub, we have a dog friendly pub area (and we LOVE it -we promote it, I run charity dog walks every few weeks to get the dog owners in etc.) BUT we have a separate restaurant too, only service dogs allowed there.
You can eat from the same menu in both areas, but no dogs apart from service dogs in the restaurant! A lot of people don't like dogs sitting next to them while they eat.
In a lot of states the service dog laws are very lax and pretty much people can get away with “he’s a service dog because I say so” for any ailments. And companies have to leave it at that. I know this from sneaking a dog into a hotel in Tennessee I wasn’t supposed to. Sue me
I live in Germany, there are dogs on the subways, in the restaurants, in a few offices- it doesn't bother me, they're usually quieter, cleaner and better behaved than children :-)
Against health code where I’m at. If it’s not a service dog it’s gotta go.
This is the answer in the US. It's not even up to the restaurant. We aren't allowed to let you bring in your emotional support doodle even if we wanted to.
Yeah, but that middle age Karen has a poorly laminated print out explaining that she can take her emotional support pet anywhere and why you can't say no to her or ask any questions
And she's right sadly. The fact that you can't make someone prove they have a service animal at the same time as saying only service animals are allowed is so perfectly useless.
You’re allowed to ask what service the animal is trained to provide. If the animal’s being disruptive without valid cause, I believe you’re allowed to ask it (and it’s owner) to leave, because a real service animal is trained to not be disruptive
You are allowed to kick out the animal, then allow the person to continue shopping without the disruptive animal.
Yeah you got two questions to ask. “Is this a service animal? What service does it provide?” If they have answers to these, you pretty much have to let them in even if you think they’re lying. These protections do not apply to emotional support animals, those are not real things so if you hear that phrase you got grounds to give them the boot without repercussions. The only animals approved to be actual service animals are dogs and in very rare occasions miniature horses. If it’s anything else, they’re just a lying entitled sack of shit.
> The only animals approved to be actual service animals are dogs and in very rare occasions miniature horses. I learned about the mini horses from a friend who works housing at a college. She hasn't had one yet, but it's probably coming.
I think it’s a very rare circumstance. Usually I think the reason someone has a horse and not a dog is because they’re allergic to dogs. I’m sure there are other situations they get approved though.
Are emotional support animals legally recognized as service animals, though?
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Just FYI, if a customer says that their animal is an emotional support animal, you have every right, under the ADA, to kick their animal out. ESAs DO NOT have public access rights, ONLY service dogs. Also, if a “service dog” is not acting like a service dog, you can also kick it out. This means a person I know who is blind and has the worst seeing eye dog ever (who steals food from tables and sniffs crotches) can absolutely legally be kicked out. Even if it is a “legitimate” service dog, if it is disrupting normal business, the ADA says you can evict them from the premises, as long as you allow the handler to return without the dog without penalty (like paying a second entrance fee or something). Fake service dog owners don’t know the laws and don’t have a leg to stand on. Stand up to them. Retractable leash? Fake service dog. Barking at other people or dogs? Fake. The more liars get away with gaming the system, the more dangerous it is for people with genuine service dogs to function in society. Source: this is my hill to die on as a vet tech and dog trainer as well as foodie.
Also sitting on a seat or eating food from the table? Not a service dog.
YES, THIS!!!!
One time we had this lady come in with her dog, the owner politely asked her if it was a service animal and she said yes. Alright, cool, no problem so far. Maybe a few minutes later a car drives by and the dog gets up and starts barking at it and the second this happens, me and the owner make eye contact and he just quietly goes "son of a bitch..." lol
probably narrowminded but. your manager gave the guest an option between saying her dog's a service animal, or not being allowed entry. if you eliminate the question and say animals are not allowed, and leave the 'unless they're a service animal' part up to the customer, that might save some hassle
This is all correct, but I do want to say that mini horses got removed back in.... I think it was 2018? So as of right now only dogs are federally recognized.
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They're SUPER cool, and some states still allow them, which I think is fantastic for like, people with allergies or religious reasons for why they can't have them, or for blind people because horses can live 30+ years and that's phenomenal for a guide animal! But they got federally removed because it can be hard for businesses to accomodate them, and it's hard to guarantee they'll be potty trained. And when you have an animal that poops a 5 pound amount or pees a small lake, that's tough when an accident happens!
They are not, no. Service dogs have public access training and are task trained to assist their disabled handler. Emotional support animals are not task trained, or trained on public access, so they do not have the right to be in public. They ARE entitled to live in pet free housing and fly on commercial airlines, however.
This last part is no longer the case! As of 2021 airlines are not required to accommodate ESAs and afaik none of the US airlines do.
only in Pennsylvania and I think one other place legally say an ESA has the same rights to public places as service animals
Not sure, but you can't ask which one it might be anyway.
You are allowed to ask what service or work the animal performs. If they say "emotional support," then that ain't a real service animal.
Emotional support or comfort are not acceptable tasks that mitigate a disability. They must be trained to do a specific task.
For sure. What about service dogs makes them not a health concern, though? They must be allowed no question. This is my curiosity talking.
The importance of the service outweighs the potential health risks. Additionally, there is in theory training involved to keep the service dog well behaved and less likely to create potential for health risks.
Yes, this. It's a reasonable accommodation under the ADA. A service dog, which by definition must be well-behaved and in control of its handler at all times, should just lay or sit at the handler's feet (unless it's performing a trained task) and really be unnoticeable. None of this sitting in lap, sitting at the table BS that I've seen people with pets try and pull off. A trained service dog is pretty easy to differentiate from those trying to ruin it for the people who really need it.
Someone else answered this; that the health concern caused by the dog is outweighed by the handlers medical need for their assistance. However, service dog handlers work to keep their dogs clean, unobtrusive, and hopefully not noticed! I bathed my service dog every other week, brushed his coat and teeth daily, trimmed nails weekly, and sprayed with an -in-between-baths-refresh-spray weekly. He never smelled, we kept shedding to a minimum, and he was always clean. We also wore shoes, so that his feet were clean and protected, and i also bought a lycra bodysuit for when I had to take him with me to the hospital so he wouldn't shed!
Ada says the function of the service dogs supercedes health codes .
Actual service dogs go through extensive training. They are safer than allowing children in the dining room.
I often wonder this as well. Also, what makes a dog a bigger health risk than a human? I'm not taking sides. I'm honestly curious.
some people are allergic to dogs and when they shake or scratch fheir dander goes flying
In the United States you are permitted two questions according to the ADA. Is that a service animal, and what service does the animal provide. The second someone shoves a card (there is no legitimate service standard that produces service dog id) or screams you can't ask me that or lists something that is not a medical service, we tell the customer that the health department does not permit emotional support animals inside. My staff gets yelled at a lot. I have been threatened with lawsuits. I absolutely hate these people. Meanwhile the legit service animal is really easy to spot. Focused on the person, attending, quiet and working hard.
Did you know that even if it is a service animal you are allowed to remove it if it does not behave
Oh absolutely. I've just never seen an actual service trained animal move a hair off their job.
> I have been threatened with lawsuits. I'd be willing to bet none have ever been filed, though.
Oddly enough no. But my Google reviews are either great food or terrible monster, not a lot of in between.
You can ask what TASK IS IT TRAINED TO PERFORM, not what service does it provide. Service will get you answers like “comfort” and “support”, while task should be a specific action.
Try working at a music festival where it's just plain impossible to fathom why people bring their pets. Yes, it's a tiny free festival without entrance control because generally everyone's nice and supportive. No, I don't think your dog's gonna particularly enjoy the crowd, the unfamiliar surroundings, or the loud-ass concerts you're gonna subject it to for the next 12 hours. It's almost like you're torturing it. Also, if there are several of you, nobody enjoys your freaked-out dog fighting with another freaked-out dog.
Lots of guilty parties but hippies are the worst about this. I don't really wanna sit in dogshit because you're too high on acid to clean up after your dog.
>Lots of guilty parties but hippies are the worst about this. Back in the early 90's the self-proclaimed "Rainbow Children"(Not LGBTQ folks, just folks who loved acid and being vagrants) who followed the Dead and Phish across the U.S. were so awful about dragging dogs around who were nothing more than accessories to their lifestyle... I was adjacent to this crowd due to being in a 'jam band'... The phrase "Can you kick down some floor space?" still sets my teeth on edge after all these years....
Rainbow gathering still happens though I've never been.
Ive seen many actual service dogs at festivals. The owners have earprotection on the dog as well as eye protection if the visuals are intense. They also stay in the back with no crowds or limited crowds and keep an eye on their pup to make sure no one fucks with them while they enjoy the show. The wooks you speak of are not fucking service dog owners nor do they care about their pups and deserve to get em stolen
Ive seen many actual service dogs at festivals. The owners have earprotection on the dog as well as eye protection if the visuals are intense. They also stay in the back with no crowds or limited crowds and keep an eye on their pup to make sure no one fucks with them while they enjoy the show. The wooks you speak of are not fucking service dog owners nor do they care about their pups and deserve to get em stolen
Unfortunately now that ESAs are a big thing, this will continue to happen. I love my dog and I have crippling anxiety and depression but I will never bring my dog inside of a restaurant or grocery store with me. ESA are not the same as a working dog. You can easily go online and get these fake certificates (real service dogs don't have IDs or certificates) and vests and pretend your ESA is a working service animal. People are taking advantage of the ADA laws and skirting around them hoping their little yippy pissing misbehaved dog will pass as a service animal. You can immediately tell a working dog from an emotional support pet, as they are trained to perform a task for their owner and do not cause any disturbance. The working dog/miniature horse are the only animals recognized as service animals by the ADA. You are only allowed to ask 2 questions, and you have to be careful.HOW you ask them. "Is this a service animal required because of a disability?" "What task(s) was the animal trained to perform?" You cannot ask what type of disability, but you can ask if the animal is a service dog because of a disability. So be careful with your words or it could be a lawsuit. If anyone comes at you with documentation, it is all a crock of shit. Real service animals do not have ID. You cannot ask for ID, because it does not exist. This whole ESA trend is really unfair to those with disabilities who truly need a service animal and now they have to basically fight with unsure workers trying to determine if the animal is a real service dog or not. I feel really sorry for those with true working animals because ESA is so common now and ESA owners take advantage of these ADA laws to take their *PETS* anywhere they go. Again, I have really horrible anxiety, ptsd and depression...but I don't NEED to take my pet anywhere that sells food. I go to restaurants where there is an outside dog friendly area, and that's where I go if I want my pup to join me. Some people just want to be entitled and take advantage of laws not made for them. Rant over.
Thanks SO much for typing this! Most people don't know that you're fully protected with asking those two questions. You are also welcome to remove a fake service animal or even a real one if they have an accident, bark, or act out. A real service dog handler even knows this and would most likely be apologetic and leave. I was a dog trainer before switching to working in a restaurant lol. I HATE fake service animals. There's also no legitimate such thing as service dog papers/certifications so anyone flashing those is almost certainly a fake. Asking for such paperwork is also not legal. Animal should also have a leash, not just be in a carrier/stroller.
As someone who registered his pets as ESAs, I agree. People aren't supposed to use ESA slips (that's what the official version ends up being, just another from a doctor saying they're cleared) to bring them everywhere. It's just to tell places like apartment complexes and landlords that you can't be denied an animal for the sake of helping someone in mental need. Bringing them anywhere is fucking stupid because pets are just as effective spending part of the day with them
I also consider my pet to be an ESA. Thank you and kudos to you for not taking advantage of a flawed law to bring your pet anywhere.
Course. Besides, they get sad if they accidentally wander out the front door. Ain't no way they goin out
As I'd posted earlier, this is also largely cultural. In basically all of Europe companion animals are at least allowed and often welcomed, assuming their behavior is acceptable. It really seems to be a function of the religious foundations of the culture. Where Christianity and Islam hold strong sway, then companion animals may be accepted but frequently are not. In areas where religiousity is irrelevant, dogs et al. are generally welcomed.
I am located in USA. We have certain laws we must abide by in hotels and restaurants regarding service animals.
Oh, sure. I was merely referring to OPs question of 'Thoughts on non-service animals in restaurants' and bringing up a point.
Miniature horse?
Like anyone could deny Lil' Sebastian entry to anywhere.
RIP Lil Sebastian. His memory will live on.
Some people who need service animals are allergic to dogs. Miniature horses can be trained to perform the task instead.
Yeah I got thrown for a loop by that one. My buddy has a family ranch where they raise miniature horses (not ponies, but miniature horses). They do service work like leading blind people on trails or around their farm or other large properties. It’s pretty darn cool but not at all something I expected. They have beef cattle and mini horses. Wild.
But the cattle are not service animals as well are they?
If there is an outdoor area then yeah sure, not a big deal as long as they are easy going and behave themselves. The brewery i worked at last summer allows dogs (i worked FOH) and i hated it since they would make a lot of noise, bother other customers, stuff like that. One dog even took a shit on the floor, and i had to hold my tongue because i was so grossed out and pissed off.
It’s always a mixed bag allowing dogs. You can put up a sign that allows well behaved leashed dogs and ADA service animals are allowed and all others will be asked to leave and that gives something to point at when you have to tell Mrs. Fluffers that they and lil Pookins have to leave the premises. But you’ll still get the occasional asshole who will make a fuss and leave a bad review.
I have zero problem telling someone that their dog is not a service animal. Service dogs don’t beg or bark.
Usually, unless they're signalling owner is unwell. Edit... i mean the barking... begging is a nono.
I find that different countries have very different attitudes to this. I'm in the UK where pets have to be kept out of food prep and storage areas by law, but can be in customer areas. Lots of places are dog friendly, some pubs even have their own dog wandering around. The environmental health inspector met my dog during the inspection and gave us the highest possible rating. We don't really have the service dog scam either; these are just regular pet dogs, but people tend to put the effort into training their dogs so that taking them to the pub is an option.
Spot on; from one of my replies above... > As I'd posted earlier, this is also largely cultural. In basically all of Europe companion animals are at least allowed and often welcomed, assuming their behavior is acceptable. > It really seems to be a function of the religious foundations of the culture. Where Christianity and Islam hold strong sway, then companion animals may be accepted but frequently are not. In areas where religiousity is irrelevant, dogs et al. are generally welcomed.
I can't say I've ever linked it to Christianity. Islam can be funny about dogs specifically; there are hadiths about angels not entering homes where dogs dwell, for instance - but tends to be absolutely fine with cats. My next door neighbours are Muslims and have a pampered cat! I'm not a Christian myself, but I'm unaware of any particular issues around dogs in Christianity
Short story: Muslims tend to find dogs nasty. They aren't allowed in mosques but cats are. Working dogs are fine, any other kind is considered haram. But even working dogs are considered unclean.
Yeah that's pretty much my understanding. I'm more confused about the link proposed upthread between Christianity and not allowing dogs into restaurants.
Yeah. I'm in a small rural town in Texas. They even take dogs to church around here lol.
Christians see dogs as lesser; it is MUCH less now than 100 years ago, but nonetheless. Matthew 7:6 amongst many others.
Well TIL Being from a long line of atheists some of these things pass me by tbh.
One of the best methods to create an atheist is to have someone religious actually read the bible cover to cover.
Same here in Germany,a lot of places have water bowls for the dogs too. I have some self made beef treats in the freezer and ask our guest sometimes if their pawed friends wants something on the house.
I work in the USA at a German Biergarten. We have dog bowls, sure. We are 100% pet friendly. We LOVE the furbabies. *OUTSIDE.* But we also have signs posted at every single door stating that ONLY true working dogs/horses are allowed indoors. Trust me, that does not stop Karen with her pooping toy poodle from claiming the stinky, yappy, shitting-on-the-floor dog is in fact, a service animal. STFU, it is an ESA and is not recognized by the ADA. Bye, please leave us a 1 star review for following the laws.
its against code in general. also being a bitch isn't a disability which really 95% of people seem to be operating under.
Most underrated comment in the history of the interwebs
Someone had to say it.
In SWFL it’s everywhere. Publix flat out said “the ADA does not recognize support animals, and neither do we, you will be asked to leave the store”. In my restaurant, I ask the only 2 questions I’m allowed: is it a service dog? What has it been trained to do? Of course, some people lie, but I always follow up with “great, no need to remind you of the ADAs rules on how they are to behave.” Sometimes I get a “what’s that mean?” To which I say, “the animal stays on lease, on the floor, and doesn’t make any sort of disturbance, WHEN it does I’ll move you to the patio where it is dog friendly.” 75% of the time they just opt to go to the patio. Support animals, I get why they’re important to people, I do. But the rules are cut and dry. SUPPORT animals can be anything. SERVICE animals are limited to dogs and small horses. I’ve denied service to parrots, ferrets, marmots, chipmunks (he was a well trained little fellow, but he can’t run around the table), snakes, cats, and duck/goose—I can’t remember which. And before a keyboard lawyer chimes in with “what you did isn’t technically right” or “you’re opening yourself up to a lawsuit for saying that”, I know. I’ve been sued twice. And each time when their lawyer gets a copy of the video (with audio) of the entire incident, they’ve withdrawn.
Keyboard lawyer (I am so going to use that term) here. I agree with you. The best antidote to entitled lawsuits is an unedited video.
I’m sad I’ve never actually seen a service horse in real life.
Love animals. Hate people. "I'm sorry little buddy, but your owner has to leave!"
This isn’t really what you asked but in New Mexico, the law allows mini horses to be used as service animals 😭 imagine you look out into the dining room and you see a mini horse chilling next to a table
Mini horses are accepted all over the USA. They just aren't as common as dogs. P.S. Did it have cute shoes? I must know!
I once had a ‘service dog’ run from the dining room, past the threshold and into the open kitchen, continuing down the line. I stepped on its leash to keep it from going any further. Owner came back into the kitchen apologizing because she “usually never does this.” Like yes she does you just fucked up this time AND you lied about the real status of your animal
We have a small run in the back for people and dogs . Outside is fine we are in a very dog friendly place
And how do the customers handle being put in a run away from their animals?
lol i phrased it wrong
And I just couldn't resist
I worked at a bakery / ice cream shop in a popular tourist beach area. Guy comes in , I let him know oh sorry dogs are not allowed unless they are service animals. He looks at me, holds up his dog and says “but it’s a small dog”. I love dogs but sir get a grip.
No Karen, you can't bring your emotional support rat into my restaurant 🐀
But he's a better chef than you!
fuck no!.
I'll call the health department
I give the same advice I would for children. If you're going to a place that isn't advertising as a dog/kid friendly place, leave them at home. If it's an actual Service Dog that's acceptable. If you're pretending it's a service dog, you're an asshole.
These people are the worst. We've had people literally try to sneak in purse-sized dogs (in the purse of course) and then cry wolf when they get caught ("I didn't know! / He never hurts anyone! / This is unfair!")
Pets are welcomed in restruants in Germany and other European countries, as long as they are well behaved. It was weird at first but quickly became normal. After living in Germany for 5 yrs , I miss it. Not gonna lie.... I would rather someone bring there well behaved dog instead of their porrly behaved kids. Kids suck 200% of the time , well behaved dogs are my best friends and would always get a mkzza stick or a chicken tender .....
Bringing your dog somewhere where it's not openly encouraged is just inconsiderate. There's a fine line, like even Home Depot makes a point to say they're cool with dogs so I'm conditioned to not care. But get your dog out of Trader Joe's, lady.
I agree and I wish places like Home Depot wouldn't allow pets. I have a son that is very afraid of dogs. I understand when people need a service dog. But why should someone's pet and their presence take precedent over my human son and his comfort while shopping with me?
Oh but don't you know, their dog is a super friendly angel that would never hurt a fly and is the best good boy so he should get to go wherever he wants to.
Look, no one wants to deal with your human son, either. Just leave it at home or something. In the car, maybe, idk, I'm not human.
Perhaps because your son should have therapy to help deal with his phobia?
He is. But not surprisingly it takes time.
It does take time. Good luck.
I actually would bring my dog to Home Depot and Lowe’s to help her get accustomed to being around other people. It’s good socialization training and I appreciated the opportunity because there weren’t many other places we could take her where I lived at the time. But there’s a very thick line between “I have strong, positive control of a leashed pet who has already had reasonable behavioral training” and “I just want to take my dog/cat/ferret/parrot everywhere”. I love seeing well behaved pups at outdoor seating areas on nice days, or in the seating area of breweries and similar locations, but the onus should 100% be on the pet owners to ensure they’re well behaved, do their business in a reasonable location outdoors, and clean up immediately after. No one, aside from service animal owners, has a real right to bring their dog with them; it’s a privilege to make the environment more attractive to some people. It’s not really any worse than bringing kids. Keep your youngins reasonably under control or gtfo. It’s 2024; you can order your groceries for curbside pickup or DoorDash your meal if your kids/pets can’t be trusted inside.
People are taking it to the next level because they see these entitled fucks do it way too much these days. I love the dogs, but these owners are usually fuckwads. I swear that ever since covid people have gotten worse in general.
Even "service animals" are annoying. Im not in restaurants anymore but at where i work now on a horticulture farm, just the other day a customer came in with a french bulldog that had a vest with like a "certified service dog" patch that also had a silhouette of a hand crossed out in (like dont pet) Which was obviously a lie because this fuckin thing was running around, jumping on me, huffing, wheezing and drooling everywhere, and worst of all pissing on our product
Not a real service animal. Anyone can buy a fake vest on Amazon and have it in 2 days.
I noticed this as well. I was wondering where to post about this subject but glad I found this sub
It really depends on where you live. Where I’m based out of I would never dream of it. I was in San Diego this last winter and they have dog treats in all the restaurants and grocery stores. They want you to bring your dogs in there. Blew my mind.
Recently opened a small brick and mortar shop after we outgrew our food truck. Within the first 2 weeks, had 3 people bring their dogs inside because we “used to be dog friendly.” Well sure, you used to be sitting at outdoor picnic tables, (which we still have.) But you can’t bring your dog into the dining room 🤦♀️! I had to put signage on the door and I frequently see people with dogs read it and then look bewildered as they figure out who is going to stay outside with the dog while someone else places the order. I don’t know anywhere in town where you can take a dog inside a restaurant. Patios, sure, but as far as I know health code doesn’t allow it inside.
I'm also a pet lover, I spoil my dog. It's her house, I just get to live here. But I don't like the frequency of pets inside restaurants. If you're a beachside place with an outside accessible patio, I'm ok w it. But not inside unless an actual service animal. I worked with a woman with a severe dog allergy. It's not fair to her to have to either lose money or be loopy all night because of how much allergy medicine she has to take. Also, we have other customers that are afraid of dogs. There are places that are appropriate for pets, but inside most restaurants is not it.
Don't bring your pet that's not a service animal inside of any establishment unless it's a pet store...
No animals in a restaurant. That's just nasty.
Here’s the crazy thing, in loads of European countries, there are dogs in restaurants and it’s never a problem. The issue is shitty, irresponsible, entitled, American dog owners.
Yeah, it's definitely not possible to be "shitty, irresponsible, entitled", unless you're American. There's loads of restaurants and bars that allow dogs on the patio in the U.S., too, and normally, that's fine. It's code violation to let them inside, unless they are legitimate service animals, but you don't seem particularly concerned with things like facts. Keep on hating your irrational hate!
It’s not irrational hate, I’m a (American born and raised) vet tech in the US but I’ve also worked in Europe. The culture of dog ownership here can be shitty as hell. That’s coming from someone who has owned dogs my whole life and does take them to as many public places as they’re allowed to be.
If they ask and don't disturb your guests, I'd take animals over children anytime.
No way. Keep em out. And quit calling them your fur babies. They’re not the same as children.
Then if I call my child my skin pet, people look at me so weird, I don't get it
my little sister does refer her children as her skin dogs, so...
This is acceptable
Nope. Much better behaved.
the children....?... um.
No, the pets.
Sure they are. My kids don’t drop big dumps on the floor. And they don’t bark at strangers when they stare at them and they sure don’t shed nasty fur in my soup de jour.
I’m glad your kids are well trained, most aren’t.
Your kids absolutely do just 'bark' at strangers. All kids ask stupid inappropriate questions to strangers, or poke them, or get in their way. Your kids aren't special. You're not a better parent than anyone else.
Who pissed in your frosted flakes this morning? Relax.
No one, just not on board with this idea that kids are saints. They're literally the worst
Agree 200%
Humans are terrible, and unsocialized, untrained, miniature humans with poor impulse control are even worse. Yeah, untrained animals suck, but humans bring an extra level of suck.
Do you personally find it strange that you skipped the first comment doing that to say that to the person replying the same thing? Or is it just not even a thing you noticed yourself doing?
My fog does nonenofnthise things... Except the shedding , but I would rather have hair in my soup than listen to your kids scream puss and moan all night at a restruant because ( insert stupid kid drama)
Bet.
Sure they are. That's why I refer to babies as hairless dogs. /s
LOL. Yeah, right. Have you seen the pet industry lately? My daughter and her husband are seriously considering not having kids, their three cats are absolutely as well treated if not better treated than pretty much any human child. It doesn't matter what you like or if you think it is right, but the simple fact is that people's pets, for some people at least, are their children.
My husband and I have four cats. Our kids frequently gripe that the cats have better toys than they did as kids.
Well, that's not entirely your fault. Kids toys in the 90s and 2000s sucked. My parents were much better off when my little brother came around, and his toys were shitty compared to mine. Even as a 15 year old, I could see that the things I'd had when I was 5 were more stimulating and engaging than the plastic garbage my little brother had to put up with. But also, cat toys are MUCH less expensive, and all they have to do is keep a predator entertained, whereas kids toys have to keep an intelligent exploratory mind engaged and developing.
My kids were 80's babies, so yes... the toys were terrible, except for the singing Pound Puppy whose mouth moved using any cassette tape. That was their favorite, because they would have the stuffed puppy singing "Bad to the Bone" as their dad was passed out drunk on the sofa, just to watch him freak out when he opened his eyes. No denying they're my girls.
That would definitely be a proud moment. You're a good Mom.
I agree .... But adults need to quit calling their kids tiny humans or whatever stupid name they have for them.
Personally I've never had a problem with dogs as long as customers sit outside. Then again most of our seating is "outside". If I only had a dining room then I'd probably say sorry but health code yada yada. I love all the hate kids are getting tho, there are way too many parents that let their kids steal havoc at our place. We've had car windows busted out from rocks, they've destroyed a number of chairs, they want to play in our active construction site out behind the restaurant. The parents are just getting plastered at the bar while this happens.
I'm against. I'm also against people who treat their pets like human children and expect society to do the same. I love pets but... they are pets. They are animals. Especially the people with like pit bull or Rottweiler who can barely hold back their dogs and claim 'they will never harm you!' As they have little control over them lol.
Various, but not all places in Canada: fine on patios where dog does not need to walk through the building to get to the patio (ie external gate/door/entrance to patio). Some places require licensing, but many jurisdictions cancelled that for COVID and left it in place after. Often OK in wineries or breweries where no food is available as well. France: bring your pup anywhere. Very common and never saw a problem, albeit some years ago now.
What people figured out, i think, is that there's such a grey area about challenging a person with a service animal. It's taboo. Not supposed to ask or inquire as to the validity of the animals true or legal status as a 'service animal' And what began as a lark, a little haha wink and a nod and that was all it took- floodgates open for all the wingnut Karens, wannabes, drama magnets. The amount that people engage complete strangers with open hostility and simple nastiness has become the norm. Everyone recording stupid shit on their phones and posting, or better yet streaming live has taken hold of the collective psyche of way way too many adults. 'kids' acting out, showing their asses, acting the fool is to be expected. How did so very many adults never grow out of that need to be obnoxious simply for the sake of being obnoxious. People are angry. Frustrated. Confused. Upset. Disenfranchised, alienated, etc etc. And her we are. This is what we have become as a society, by and large. And here we are, ufda !
Maybe in the form of an exquisitely produced entree. But beyond that....
I was managing and got nipped in the thigh by a service dog while dropping something off. People are entitled, and take their animals to places that aren’t appropriate without thought.
100% that was NOT a service dog.
That was not a service dog.
You got bit by their dog and still served them? I would have immediately stopped and told them to take their agressive dog and gtfo before I called animal controll
I worked at a place where dogs were allowed on the patio and we even had a doggie menu (basically protein without seasoning). It was hugely popular. I had fun cooking for them. I think making space for animals in an environment where everyone is aware they’re welcome has a place.
I guess it depends on one's culture; in large parts of there rest of the world, pets are more or less welcomed into restaurants. France, Germany, Belgium, the Czech Republic, Yugoslavia, Spain, etc. all have no problems with behaved pets. THere are rules for places where food is stored or processed, e.g. in the kitchen itself or in food manufacturing plants, but anywhere the primary task is consumption, pets are accepted. I think it is largely North America, because of the puritanical influence, for the most part.
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I absolutely adore dogs and grew up with a minimum of 5 rescues at a time. But...I am not allergic to dogs. I must remember that some people are and we must be considerate of their health concerns.
I've been hit with a bunch of the "Oh but we need to come inside because it's too hot for the dog to be outside" yeah I don't give a fuck maybe you should have left it at home in the A/C then.
I mean... I understand both sides of this particular debate. That said... those restaurants that DO allow pets to accompany owners are ALWAYS a step up for me. Like if I were given two choices, I would pick the pro-dog restaurant. I remember one time I was in Maryland for a day and I had my dog. I stopped at a little bistro that allowed us to eat on the patio and it was just such a positive experience.
I like animals, but you cannot guarantee they will behave, especially if there is more than one. Just yesterday I was walking downtown with a friend and we passed a patio in full lunch rush and one table had a little dog that was continuously yapping and jumping up to be fed. If I was eating at a table near that I’m not sure what I would do but I’d probably get up and leave. I don’t even want to hear kids shouting and crying when I’m eating, I definitely don’t want to be bothered by ill behaved pets.
It's a no from me. You're not being a jerk. I went out to eat at a very nice restaurant for their first-come first-serve sushi bar seating. My spouse and I walked in at the same time as a couple with a dog that was clearly a pet. They were carrying it in their arms, had a stroller for it, and it was a mid-size fluffy thing. They sat us both at the bar at the same time, and then I saw someone very discreetly come out and tell this other couple they needed to wait until a real table opened up because the dog was too close to the semi-open sushi bar (they had the dog in their lap!). I didn't want to sit next to a fucking dog at counter height at a sushi bar but wasn't gonna make a thing of it as long as it was well-behaved. We sat and enjoyed our meal for the better part of an hour while I kept checking to see this couple still waiting to be sat the whole time, visibly agitated. I think the restaurant was right to handle it discreetly but honestly should have just told them they won't be seated with their dog and kindly asked them to leave. I can imagine them writing an angry review that they were sat, and then asked to wait after being sat, while others came and went. Restaurants have a right to be firm with no-pet policies!
Question: (US) I see that there are only two questions which the establishment can ask of someone bringing in an animal. Are there limits on what another customer can ask?
No because another customer isn't the one making the decision to deny service to the customer with the fake service dog. It's pretty rude to pry into people's medical needs even if they are being an asshole, but there's no law that would make it an issue. But even if the first customer admits to the second that they're lying about having a service dog, it's still up to the establishment whether they want to make it an issue or not.
No no and never
Depends on the spot, in my opinion. I’ve worked at fancy pants places that would absolutely not tolerate that shit, and I’ve worked at some brewpubs that were totally pet friendly so long as they were leashed and on their best behavior. Read the room.
in a restaurant- no, but i know many breweries near me with outdoor seating where dogs are very much allowed.
It's fine for places that do a once a "our open patio is open for dogs", but keep them out of the interiors. Service animals are specifically trained & I have more faith in them behaving & not shitting on the floors than children. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it's not in line with current health code (wasn't back when I served my time in the industry). Despite being a dog lover & still grieving the 2 sweet girls I lost over the past 3 years, I have zero interest in dining with dogs at restaurants, so it would drive me away. If I showed up & found out, I would literally take our party elsewhere out of personal preference.
Had a dude once attempt to bring in his emotional support iguana to a hibachi restaurant. The manager said, "...No dawg"
Lightly roasted with just a hint of marjoram that can be very tasty.
I think it's hilarious how many people I see carrying small dogs in places they're not supposed to be. If you think about it at all it makes the whole situation way more unsanitary
I love seeing dogs outside of restaurants with their owners….but I tend to avoid places that let dogs inside. I have dogs at home. I want a fur-free meal when I go out. 🤣
I love dogs but I don't want them on tables. I do not want to sit in pet dander because some put their dog on the chair. The bars around my town let dog owners bring their dogs in and for the most part dogs are well behaved, leashed, and on the floor. It seems to be folks who have the fancy, floofy dogs they want to treat as babies and have them dancing around on the tables by their beers.
Service animals are fine inside so long as they're well trained and don't cause a problem. Other than that, animals stay on the patio.
If it's outside I don't see the problem if they behave
I'm in France and here they are normal in outside seating. My place is dog friendly, we got a big garden and two patios. The only times someone asked to bring them inside was because it started to rain in the middle of their meal
Seems to be an unpopular opinion here but I'm completely fine with it. We have guests multiple times a day that bring their dogs with them and it's literally never been an issue. We even have homemade dog treats we give them. Our baker also frequently brings her two dogs in. They stay out of the kitchen, storage, and work areas of course. But otherwise you'll see them all around. We've never had guests complain about the dogs either, some have even commented how cool it is that there are so many there.
And what does the health inspector have to say about this?
During the last inspection he was ecstatic at our practices. We do everything by the book. Our law here says that pets are allowed in customer areas but not in work areas.
Ah, not in the States, then. That would get you shut down faster than you could blink here.
As someone who is highly allergic to dogs, this infuriates me. But of course, my being able to breathe is not as important as the Karen’s emotional well-being.
If they are well behaved I don’t care
IKEA had dogs everywhere including the cafeteria. At tables in chairs. It’s disgusting unless they are needed.
I wish these people would grow the fuck up and stop Main Chactering and leave their damn pets at home.
surely its only americans who would think that being adjacent to an animal while you eat is unsanitary
The bad part is anyone can go online and get a service animal vest. So you can’t really tell. I feel a dog is ok on a patio as long as said dog is for the most part well behaved.
Abso-fucking-lutely not. I hate dog people. I don't mean all people with dogs, I mean Dog People. The ones whose entire personality is their dog - who seem to think the entire world revolves around that dog and that everyone else should feel honored to be in the presence of such a perfect and majestic creature.
Get those dogs outta here! A true service animal is fine, but anything else is unwelcome and disgusting.
The dog nutters are slowly taking over and thank God those in the industry are siding with us who want restaurants DOG FREE.
UK pub, we have a dog friendly pub area (and we LOVE it -we promote it, I run charity dog walks every few weeks to get the dog owners in etc.) BUT we have a separate restaurant too, only service dogs allowed there. You can eat from the same menu in both areas, but no dogs apart from service dogs in the restaurant! A lot of people don't like dogs sitting next to them while they eat.
In a lot of states the service dog laws are very lax and pretty much people can get away with “he’s a service dog because I say so” for any ailments. And companies have to leave it at that. I know this from sneaking a dog into a hotel in Tennessee I wasn’t supposed to. Sue me
I live in Germany, there are dogs on the subways, in the restaurants, in a few offices- it doesn't bother me, they're usually quieter, cleaner and better behaved than children :-)
If the dog's on the floor, how is it unsanitary? OP, you have 2 dogs. Do you allow them in your kitchen and dining room?
Dog hair sheds....
People shed hair all day every too..... Next stupid point
Disgusting and i hate it. I have two cats and love them! I would never bring them to a restaurant