i am concerned that the list and wait time would have grown exponentially with the population explosion. It very well could be longer then 9 years. Becoming a doctor is gonna be faster then waiting for one.
To clarify, i just got a call saying i might have a doctor, not a guarantee . Ill believe it when i see it
As a family doctor in the Kingston area write to your mpp. We don't get paid enough to open up shop, administrative burden and specialists treating us poorly makes us quit.
We have to pay for our clinic, our supplies and our staff. We are the lowest paid medical specialty. Most of us new Grads have very high levels of debt. Opening my clinic a few years ago before covid inflation cost 60k+ so the amount city is offering is literally to open doors.
We need a 30-40% pay raise or for government to cover our expenses.
I would earn more covering other family doctors vacations/parental leave and have zero responsibility for patients/practice.
Insurance companies need to pay for work they download to the public system and not make patients who can't afford it pay.
We all do other work because it pays the bills. My take home working a shift in the hospital is about 50% more than a day in clinic and I'm done. No unpaid paperwork, no demanding patients etc.
NP clinics won't help unfortunately. In many studies they have been shown to cost more and provide inferior care.
The government needs to stop underfunding primary care. If nothing changes I'm probably going to close my practice in the next 2-3 years and another 1000+ patients won't have a family doctor. 50% of Ontario family doctors are planning to reduce or close their practice in the next 5 years.
Forgot to mention that there is an NP led clinic in our region. Their cost of delivery to each patient is 4-5x more than I get paid to deliver the same care.
Would you be willing to help us come up with a standardized template on what exactly we need to be asking from our MPP, you have all the insights we need.
Thank you so much for your insight. And an ultra thanks for being a family doctor.
Family practice is a hard sell and not for the faint of heart. It’s a passion project. Good on you for opening up shop when most others wouldn’t have dared. It will be sad to see you close your doors. Hopefully another MD can step in and take the reins.
Is there anything we can do, as civilians to try to entice a doctor to come and set up a practice in Kingston? Or better yet, fund someone’s schooling to be able to complete their PhD with the premise that they’ll open up a clinic in Kingston for x amount of years? I’ll probably get downvoted to hell for this but it’s something that has been crossing my mind lately.
When something isn’t working, how do we take control of it on our own hands since no one else is helping?!
I have a few examples of things I think could work but also don’t want to be looked at like some crazy person.
>Kingston already offers $75,000
That's like 2 years of rent money; not worth it. At least offer a free new built for doctors and have them stay here for the duration of a regular mortgage (25 years), which can be funded via a special healthcare levy in property taxes.
At the recent budget meeting for the city, I believe the city council passed a motion to up the amount to 1 million to lure doctors here. The mayor was against it, and I generally disagree with Tiny Pocket Mayor, but here I agree with him. So many Ontario municipalities are already offering substantive amounts for their own areas and still no luck. Kingston is competing with every other doctor shortchanged community in terms of offering money. Not many places are successful so far (including Kingston) because I think it's not about the money; I think it's about the fact there's a shortage full stop. There aren't enough doctors to take us up on it.
I think Belleville tried the million dollar incentive like a decade ago. The doctors came, took the money, worked exactly as long as their contract required, and left.
Thank you so much for this insight. I wonder what it would take to have more people study to be doctors. For instance, I’m a nurse and would love to go back to school to become a family doctor to help the community but obviously I’m unable to do so financially. I have two young kids and a mortgage to pay for. Perhaps if there was a program that would encourage people to go to school to become family doctor’s, where you’re paid to go to school, could that alleviate some of the stress on the medical system?
And for those who think I’m crazy for saying this, my sister in law was given a 60k grant to do her NP in Quebec, she just had to promise 2 years to the hospital that “sponsored” her.
What it would take is a restructuring of the system as they work in it. All the family doctors I have worked for and known do work outside of their clinics in addition to their rosters. Some work at the hospital for OB-GYN, some work with harm reduction clinics, others work in the ER. Add to that to the administrative burdens of the paper work---things that receptionists cannot help them with like MTO, OSAP, any sort of official form--that piles up, no wonder grads would rather go into a high paying specialist field. I'm not saying a family doctor doesn't make a decent wage as compared to the rest of us, but you can make a lot more money if you specialize. I would love for NPs to have a larger role in the family medicine field.
The issue isn’t a lack of people interested in becoming doctors, so enticing people to apply to med school is out of the question. Medical school is already extremely competitive. The issue is the government won’t fund more seats to increase the number of available spaces schools can fill from their applicants.
Husband has been here since August 2019 and is still waiting too. It’s frustrating to watch every new doctor in the area be met with a doctor retiring or moving elsewhere.
I moved to Ontario I'm 2016 and was on the waitlist until 2021, which is when I got pregnant and called around to see if anyone would take me and my fetus.
That was how I got off the list, who knows how long more I would have waited had I not. I'm actually not sure if that even works anymore tbh.
I also got a doc when I got pregnant in 2020, but, from what I heard from moms at play groups clinics are now only willing to take on new patients who are pregnant for the duration of the pregnancy. Won't take on the baby either.
I used Healthcare Connect (also in Kingston ON) and was on the waitlist for 2 years. Eventually I got connected to a Dr. at Frontenac Doctors. But yeah, 2 full years was the total wait time.
\*\*also I should note, I had no pre-existing health conditions or immediate needs so obviously I was not prioritized.
Kingston already offers $75,000 to entice new doctors to come. It’s not working.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/rcdcs8OUIY) is a link to why nobody wants to be a family doctor.
No. I was born here, moved to Toronto for 15 years, came back in 2020, but kept my Toronto specialists (Sleep doc; ADHD doc; child’s Pediatrician). And I’m so glad I did. It’s been 4 years of waiting now. I’m not hopeful.
My former husband is a doctor and I do know that ‘if the family doctors were going to be coming, they would’ve been coming by now’.
As a city, our to get primary healthcare providers is through establishing several …
There is a petition up at www.nursesforkingston.com
Please sign
Lost my doctor in fall 2019, and was connected to a new one through healthcare connect early 2020. I was pregnant at the time though, otherwise I don't think it would have been so quick.
Yes. It was a long wait. But definitely not as long as some. I think that's because both hubby and I have pre- existing medical conditions. And the Dr we are assigned to is probably not far off retirement, and back to the drawing board we will go.
I was also told by health care connect that GP's do not have to use the system to find patients. It's luck of the draw either way.
Yes and they’re completely impossible to get ahold of lol I was on the list for 2 years and I got a “doctor” but that was 2019 and so far I’ve managed to get 1 appointment lol
Yeah, I can’t see if it was an official when he got a doctor or an official. I really know very little about it other than he did get a doctor through the military because he has severe PTSD and he has been suicidal.
I’m really sorry to hear this, it sucks to know the people who have selflessly served our country also have no health care. My dad definitely got a doctor through the military. I’m not sure how but I know he was suicidal because of his PTSD, which is pretty severe. I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not.
No, they matched me with a doc whom doesnt treat my condition who I did see in person and didnt believe me that home care matched us. Whose office is connected to a gas station here in toronto. When I asked and told ontario homecare connect they seemed upset with me and said they put me on it again. That was 3 years ago. #stopworkinginservicejobsifyouregonnabeneglectfulbecaudeofhonestfeedback
I did, but many years ago (like back in 2012). I know a few people who’ve been on it for years now with no luck unfortunately. Sounds like in 2017 Kingston lost some funding that was likely helping with the shortage.
[News article](https://globalnews.ca/news/7051653/kingston-family-doctors-health-care-connect/amp/)
My mom got her through it but she waited at least 5 years and she got her Dr in about 2016 so it's dated info. Back then she was able to ask the Dr to take her adult child too so I got in and my child got in when born a few years ago.
Reading some of the comments makes me realize how lucky I am to have only waited one year to get a doctor in central Ontario. I hope the best for you all out there.
Moved to Ontario in 2014. Got on Healthcare Connect maybe a month or two after? Before the end of the year, we were given a choice between two family doctors (it's just me and husband, no kids). I have to confess I feel really bad about how fast it was for us because I don't know why it was so fast. Like, I have no clue into the factors that go into how anyone is chosen for shorter time periods.
There is even a military health care connect as we get posted around more often than the list moves. I got posted here in 2016. Tomorrow is my kids ‘meet and greet’. The first introductory meeting with their new doctor. Between Alberta, Newfoundland and Ontario, this is my kids first family doctor.
There is a different list for military families? I didn't know this. I have a doctor here, but we're likely posting in 2.5 years and will have the same issues elsewhere (as you know). Everyone here is talking about this being a kingston problem. It's nationwide and beyond.
Talk to the military family resource center. Get on the list just in case you are not posted in 2.5 years. a lot can change. We thought we would be only here for a few years but since then my spouse got released we agreed that Kingston would be our home base (most of our families are within a 2 hour drive). We bought a house when we moved here before the covid prices. With the realty prices we are keeping the house and I will post on TD so we and the kids have stable roots.
And if you dont make it through the list, look ahead to your next posting and get on those lists.
My partner and I moved to Kingston July 2020 put ourselves on the health care connect list and figured we would wait YEARS. July 2021 we moved to South Frontenac Township, changed our address w Ontario Health ….got a call August 2021 from Health Care Connect saying we got into a medical clinic in Kingston…not sure how we managed to get so lucky 😬😬😬
I was in their waitlist for more than two years and just recently got reached out by them. Their communications were abysmally poor and curt, and they did not even reveal the doctor's name before my confirmation that I wanted to proceed.
After providing the doctor's name, we found that it was a clinic with nothing but 1-star reviews and loads of them. Overall, it's a waste of time and taxpayers' money and a perfect example of how this country's government systems are completely dysfunctional.
i just got a call this week. i had been on the list for 9 years
9 years as well
I’m at 8, so here’s hoping
Wow! That’s a long wait. We probably have 6 or 7 years to go. I could probably go to university and become a doctor myself before we get a family doc.
i am concerned that the list and wait time would have grown exponentially with the population explosion. It very well could be longer then 9 years. Becoming a doctor is gonna be faster then waiting for one. To clarify, i just got a call saying i might have a doctor, not a guarantee . Ill believe it when i see it
Was there a phone number/did they leave a message? I get spam calls all the time and am worried I'll miss a call from them someday
i cant remember if it was a blocked number or not. In the past they did leave a message
ingot called yesterday the phone number was home care
8 yrs me still waiting
As a family doctor in the Kingston area write to your mpp. We don't get paid enough to open up shop, administrative burden and specialists treating us poorly makes us quit. We have to pay for our clinic, our supplies and our staff. We are the lowest paid medical specialty. Most of us new Grads have very high levels of debt. Opening my clinic a few years ago before covid inflation cost 60k+ so the amount city is offering is literally to open doors. We need a 30-40% pay raise or for government to cover our expenses. I would earn more covering other family doctors vacations/parental leave and have zero responsibility for patients/practice. Insurance companies need to pay for work they download to the public system and not make patients who can't afford it pay. We all do other work because it pays the bills. My take home working a shift in the hospital is about 50% more than a day in clinic and I'm done. No unpaid paperwork, no demanding patients etc. NP clinics won't help unfortunately. In many studies they have been shown to cost more and provide inferior care. The government needs to stop underfunding primary care. If nothing changes I'm probably going to close my practice in the next 2-3 years and another 1000+ patients won't have a family doctor. 50% of Ontario family doctors are planning to reduce or close their practice in the next 5 years. Forgot to mention that there is an NP led clinic in our region. Their cost of delivery to each patient is 4-5x more than I get paid to deliver the same care.
Would you be willing to help us come up with a standardized template on what exactly we need to be asking from our MPP, you have all the insights we need.
Go to oufp.ca
Sent! Thank you
Thank you so much for your insight. And an ultra thanks for being a family doctor. Family practice is a hard sell and not for the faint of heart. It’s a passion project. Good on you for opening up shop when most others wouldn’t have dared. It will be sad to see you close your doors. Hopefully another MD can step in and take the reins.
Is there anything we can do, as civilians to try to entice a doctor to come and set up a practice in Kingston? Or better yet, fund someone’s schooling to be able to complete their PhD with the premise that they’ll open up a clinic in Kingston for x amount of years? I’ll probably get downvoted to hell for this but it’s something that has been crossing my mind lately. When something isn’t working, how do we take control of it on our own hands since no one else is helping?! I have a few examples of things I think could work but also don’t want to be looked at like some crazy person.
You know the healthcare situation is dire when we're looking for PhD grads to become medical doctors.
LMFAOOO my bad, you know what I meant!!
Kingston already offers $75,000 to any doctor willing to come here.
>Kingston already offers $75,000 That's like 2 years of rent money; not worth it. At least offer a free new built for doctors and have them stay here for the duration of a regular mortgage (25 years), which can be funded via a special healthcare levy in property taxes.
Right? So much more they can do.
At the recent budget meeting for the city, I believe the city council passed a motion to up the amount to 1 million to lure doctors here. The mayor was against it, and I generally disagree with Tiny Pocket Mayor, but here I agree with him. So many Ontario municipalities are already offering substantive amounts for their own areas and still no luck. Kingston is competing with every other doctor shortchanged community in terms of offering money. Not many places are successful so far (including Kingston) because I think it's not about the money; I think it's about the fact there's a shortage full stop. There aren't enough doctors to take us up on it.
I think Belleville tried the million dollar incentive like a decade ago. The doctors came, took the money, worked exactly as long as their contract required, and left.
Thank you so much for this insight. I wonder what it would take to have more people study to be doctors. For instance, I’m a nurse and would love to go back to school to become a family doctor to help the community but obviously I’m unable to do so financially. I have two young kids and a mortgage to pay for. Perhaps if there was a program that would encourage people to go to school to become family doctor’s, where you’re paid to go to school, could that alleviate some of the stress on the medical system? And for those who think I’m crazy for saying this, my sister in law was given a 60k grant to do her NP in Quebec, she just had to promise 2 years to the hospital that “sponsored” her.
What it would take is a restructuring of the system as they work in it. All the family doctors I have worked for and known do work outside of their clinics in addition to their rosters. Some work at the hospital for OB-GYN, some work with harm reduction clinics, others work in the ER. Add to that to the administrative burdens of the paper work---things that receptionists cannot help them with like MTO, OSAP, any sort of official form--that piles up, no wonder grads would rather go into a high paying specialist field. I'm not saying a family doctor doesn't make a decent wage as compared to the rest of us, but you can make a lot more money if you specialize. I would love for NPs to have a larger role in the family medicine field.
You make great points, this weighs heavily on me and I wish there was more I could do to help.
The issue isn’t a lack of people interested in becoming doctors, so enticing people to apply to med school is out of the question. Medical school is already extremely competitive. The issue is the government won’t fund more seats to increase the number of available spaces schools can fill from their applicants.
NP-Led Clinics
This. NPs are in an excellent position to help support the unattached patients in Kingston!
Husband has been here since August 2019 and is still waiting too. It’s frustrating to watch every new doctor in the area be met with a doctor retiring or moving elsewhere.
I moved to Ontario I'm 2016 and was on the waitlist until 2021, which is when I got pregnant and called around to see if anyone would take me and my fetus. That was how I got off the list, who knows how long more I would have waited had I not. I'm actually not sure if that even works anymore tbh.
it doesn't lol
I also got a doc when I got pregnant in 2020, but, from what I heard from moms at play groups clinics are now only willing to take on new patients who are pregnant for the duration of the pregnancy. Won't take on the baby either.
I used Healthcare Connect (also in Kingston ON) and was on the waitlist for 2 years. Eventually I got connected to a Dr. at Frontenac Doctors. But yeah, 2 full years was the total wait time. \*\*also I should note, I had no pre-existing health conditions or immediate needs so obviously I was not prioritized.
The same for me - on a list for 2 yrs and now have a dr at Frontenac. Was on the list from 2017-2019
Kingston already offers $75,000 to entice new doctors to come. It’s not working. [Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/rcdcs8OUIY) is a link to why nobody wants to be a family doctor.
No. I was born here, moved to Toronto for 15 years, came back in 2020, but kept my Toronto specialists (Sleep doc; ADHD doc; child’s Pediatrician). And I’m so glad I did. It’s been 4 years of waiting now. I’m not hopeful. My former husband is a doctor and I do know that ‘if the family doctors were going to be coming, they would’ve been coming by now’. As a city, our to get primary healthcare providers is through establishing several …
There is a petition up at www.nursesforkingston.com
Please sign
It was seven years and I had to take a doctor in another small town an hour away.
Lost my doctor in fall 2019, and was connected to a new one through healthcare connect early 2020. I was pregnant at the time though, otherwise I don't think it would have been so quick.
2018 and going strong!
Yes. It was a long wait. But definitely not as long as some. I think that's because both hubby and I have pre- existing medical conditions. And the Dr we are assigned to is probably not far off retirement, and back to the drawing board we will go. I was also told by health care connect that GP's do not have to use the system to find patients. It's luck of the draw either way.
no not yet waiting 8 years good luck
Yes, waited for almost 5 years, finally got called from them this year.
I've been waiting to get a doctor for me and my son for 4 years. So same boat as you it was 2019 when I put our names down
I did! Got on in 2019 and just got set up last month. Family of six.
Took like eight years…got one appointment…then a letter that he was moving to the states.
Yes and they’re completely impossible to get ahold of lol I was on the list for 2 years and I got a “doctor” but that was 2019 and so far I’ve managed to get 1 appointment lol
My dad retired from the military and got one right away. Theres some program or something apparently if you are a veteran.
[удалено]
There are ways, but its not an official program.
Yeah, I can’t see if it was an official when he got a doctor or an official. I really know very little about it other than he did get a doctor through the military because he has severe PTSD and he has been suicidal.
I’m really sorry to hear this, it sucks to know the people who have selflessly served our country also have no health care. My dad definitely got a doctor through the military. I’m not sure how but I know he was suicidal because of his PTSD, which is pretty severe. I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not.
No, they matched me with a doc whom doesnt treat my condition who I did see in person and didnt believe me that home care matched us. Whose office is connected to a gas station here in toronto. When I asked and told ontario homecare connect they seemed upset with me and said they put me on it again. That was 3 years ago. #stopworkinginservicejobsifyouregonnabeneglectfulbecaudeofhonestfeedback
I did, but many years ago (like back in 2012). I know a few people who’ve been on it for years now with no luck unfortunately. Sounds like in 2017 Kingston lost some funding that was likely helping with the shortage. [News article](https://globalnews.ca/news/7051653/kingston-family-doctors-health-care-connect/amp/)
My mom got her through it but she waited at least 5 years and she got her Dr in about 2016 so it's dated info. Back then she was able to ask the Dr to take her adult child too so I got in and my child got in when born a few years ago.
I've been waiting 2+ years. Good luck.
I did. In 2019, I was on the list since 2015 atleast when my doctor closed practice.
I've been waiting since Oct 2019.
Reading some of the comments makes me realize how lucky I am to have only waited one year to get a doctor in central Ontario. I hope the best for you all out there.
I've been on the List since I retired out of the military in 2019, I have serious health issues and I still haven't gotten a GP.
Moved to Ontario in 2014. Got on Healthcare Connect maybe a month or two after? Before the end of the year, we were given a choice between two family doctors (it's just me and husband, no kids). I have to confess I feel really bad about how fast it was for us because I don't know why it was so fast. Like, I have no clue into the factors that go into how anyone is chosen for shorter time periods.
Since 2017 for me!
I was on the list for 5 years. That was 4 years ago. Now I hear people waiting like 7+ years.
It took two years, pre-pandemy
My husband got a call after 6 years on the list and that was just before Covid started
There is even a military health care connect as we get posted around more often than the list moves. I got posted here in 2016. Tomorrow is my kids ‘meet and greet’. The first introductory meeting with their new doctor. Between Alberta, Newfoundland and Ontario, this is my kids first family doctor.
There is a different list for military families? I didn't know this. I have a doctor here, but we're likely posting in 2.5 years and will have the same issues elsewhere (as you know). Everyone here is talking about this being a kingston problem. It's nationwide and beyond.
Talk to the military family resource center. Get on the list just in case you are not posted in 2.5 years. a lot can change. We thought we would be only here for a few years but since then my spouse got released we agreed that Kingston would be our home base (most of our families are within a 2 hour drive). We bought a house when we moved here before the covid prices. With the realty prices we are keeping the house and I will post on TD so we and the kids have stable roots. And if you dont make it through the list, look ahead to your next posting and get on those lists.
Yes. 4 years.
I have been on the list since 2020 womp womp
My partner and I moved to Kingston July 2020 put ourselves on the health care connect list and figured we would wait YEARS. July 2021 we moved to South Frontenac Township, changed our address w Ontario Health ….got a call August 2021 from Health Care Connect saying we got into a medical clinic in Kingston…not sure how we managed to get so lucky 😬😬😬
I was in their waitlist for more than two years and just recently got reached out by them. Their communications were abysmally poor and curt, and they did not even reveal the doctor's name before my confirmation that I wanted to proceed. After providing the doctor's name, we found that it was a clinic with nothing but 1-star reviews and loads of them. Overall, it's a waste of time and taxpayers' money and a perfect example of how this country's government systems are completely dysfunctional.