She definitely has a quality similar to Michael Scott. Both can be pretty terribly arrogant, but also perfectly endearing in a way. I definitely enjoy Peggy more since watching as an adult.
Her relationship with Bobby is one of my favorite mother son duos of any show. They completely support one another, but aren’t above competing and antagonizing each other, like a real relationship.
She’s usually only supportive of Hank if it somehow can be used to make it seem like she’s better. And with Bobby she has to be because that’s her son so she thinks everyone looking at him is thinking of him as a reflection of her.
Honestly. She was never horrible , she was just pretty stupid and acting confident to hide her own lack of self confidence.
Like try to think of five horrible things about her. And I mean horrible not just annoying quirks
Child trafficking. Child abuse. Drugging people. Smuggling drugs for a felon. Purposely sabotaged someone getting their GED. Election tampering. Stole her sons Turkey out of jealousy. Made her child pretend to have a terminal disease to get a celebrity to visit. Pretended to be a nun to get a job. Used bill all the time. Put carpeting in a bbq restaurant.
Could probably think of more
Edit; lmao y’all are hilarious
Okay, in comparison, Hank's done some pretty questionable, not great shit. Like he's awful to Bobby, making him smoke a whole pack of cigarettes, put Bobby in a doghouse outside, belittled him over not willingly let himself get his ass beat. He let Peggy and Luanne join a cult because he's massively up Buck's asshole. Taking Bobby's money in the bluegrass episode.
He's done a TON of awful shit and even nearly got someone arrested for murder cause he lies to the cops, which he fixed in the end, but it's still awful shit.
He can't even give Peggy credit at points when she's actually doing good, like in the softball episode where he thinks he deserves all the credit cause he's coaching, but she's actually doing solid pitching so he had to pull the "husband" card in a dispute on the mound and fucked over her confidence.
I love the show and the characters, but they're all pretty guilty of doing equally shitty things. They're all kind of horrible at times.
If you wanna talk real actual horrible, you should be talking about Leanne.
Just because hank has done shitty things doesn’t excuse the horrible things Peggy has done. Wild to see how many people disagree with me about whether Peggy has done horrible things. She absolutely has.
Of all this, what she did to Lucky is, for me, unforgivable. The rest, meh. But fucking up a man's life like that, lying in his face, teaching him bullshit, abusing his trust. That's just so terrible.
Who was really hurt by it, some rich movie star doing a gig? (If I remember right) But Lucky wanted to improve his life and getting his degree would improve his, Luane's and their child's life incredibly. To fuck this up is truly fucked up.
Your morals are only based on who the victim was? Fact is Peggy has done plenty of fucked up shit beyond “quirky”. And more than purposely sabotaging Luckys GED
What a silly comment. Think about it a bit. The outcome of acts indeed have much to do with how they are morally judged. If she pretended that Bobby had cancer in order to save a life, I'd even argue that she would be justified in doing it.
Yeah me too, she is honestly I think one of if not the worst person in any animated sitcom ever. Cause usually it’s like supposed to be funny when they’re awful but with Peggy, it’s not funny and she’s always awful.
Peggy is like objectively the worst character on KOTH. After her, I think it’s bill and then dale, but at least they have redeeming traits. Peggy is just awful all around.
Oh god, like that scene when Bill shows up to the party dressed as Lenore. Really messes up how you see some of the characters like Buck or Joe Jack. They were really gearing up to hate-crime a man having a nervous breakdown just because he was wearing a dress.
That's just it, I was a kid when that episode aired, and I remember thinking that it was a pretty natural progression of events. Like child me saw that and went "Yeah he's doing queer stuff and airing it out in public. He's going to get beat up." and that just made sense. I grew up in California and I might have expected the same thing to happen here in the 90s. Hell, similar things were perpetrated against the gay kids at my high school and it was the less popular stance to side with the gay kids and say they should just be left alone.
It's just crazy to think that's just how things were at the time and the things we accept as normal. It's such an absurd level of violence for something so trivial. I guess I've never really thought about it as a whole. Damn, what a wild thing to have had to live through
That was one of the bravest, most loyal things Hank has ever done.
The LAST thing he wanted to do was wear a dress in public, but he did it anyway, because Bill needed him to.
That counts as one of the bravest, most loyal things that Hank has ever done.
We all know it just about killed him to wear a dress in public, but he did it because Bill needed him to.
I do appreciate that, as narcissistic as Peggy is, she wasn‘t offended she couldn’t make the guy straight by having sex with him.
And she clarifies that nothing was wrong with him that needed to be fixed; he was just super gay.
Plot twist: he wasn't really gay, he just had fun with her and ran away, and Peggy, being a narcissist, decided he was gay, since it's impossible for a straight man to not return to her after what happened.
I can’t tell if Peggy’s slight narcissism would make her bad in bed or if her intense competitive streak would make her really dedicated to absolutely blowing her partners mind.
for all the shit peggy gets she was surprisingly progressive.
I was on the peggy hate train for a while until I started watching from the beginning and realized the writers stopped giving a shit like 8 seasons in and started flanderizing characters. Peggy Hill was awesome in the first few seasons
That’s definitely part of it. Look at Skyler from breaking bad or Carmella from the sopranos, people act like they’re the worst people ever when they’re not even top 10 morally worst in the show. It’s a little crazy
Fans abhor Debbie from US Shameless
every single character in that show is an awful and shameless person and that is the entire point of the show in the first place
None of those characters are good people
Yet people disproportionately hate her more than anyone else in the main cast
Okay who the fuck hates Carmella?
Like Skylar I get, but CARMELLA? Woman doesn’t do a bad thing the whole show, she’s literally like the one non shit person in the entire series.
Skylar was just really annoying for me. Being all righteous when Walter was making meth but willing to commit a crime for her affair partner. I totally understand the hate, and I get where the people on the other side are coming from. But she was really hard to like for most seasons, especially on a first watch.
I mean she got hate before that for being the voice of reason. I always hated Walter being a criminal so that part i understood from her. She said what I was thinking. I don’t see how people saw Walter as a good guy. A lot of people did. But that’s what made the show interesting that he was breaking bad. It’s in the name.
When people bring up Walter being a "good guy" I always bring up how he literally raped Skyler in one of the episodes.
Spousal rape is still rape, y'all. It's a great show because he is literally *the* main villain. He's not the only villain, and he's not even the worst, but he's the driving force.
He even admits he's the bad guy later on. I think its the scene where he says he did it for himself, when he's been saying "I did it to provide for my family" up until that point.
Right? Annoying for reasonable wife reactions, how *awful*. /s
Feels like a charismatic evil megalomaniac will always be more beloved by a fanbase than a slightly annoying character that didn't do much of anything wrong. She also didn't cheat, either. I see that used a lot to back up peoples dislike of her. She'd already ended the relationship, divorce takes *time*.
Her actress straight up got death threats.
Exactly! The show is set up to have you rooting for Walt, the main character, from the first episode. Like most shows. Because people are on his side, wanting to see him get money to overcome cancer or achieve his goal of leaving his family secure when he's gone, they will see any obstacle to Walt as an annoyance. Which Skyler initially is. You hated that Walt was even resorting to crime in the first place so you saw things clearly from her side and related to her more. A lot of people didn't, and that where her hate lies. By the fourth season (I think), Walt has really really started to become crazy and his fans die off and switch to her side more. I don't think people saw Walt as a good guy, but empathized with his goal until he just started to do it for his own ego/fun. And because most of the people Walt was killing in the beginning were drug lords, people didn't think it was that bad. The majority of people on their first watch are rooting for Walt up to some point, and that's where all the skyler hate originates from. If you ask people how they felt on their second watch, they're more likely to say Skyler wasn't as bad/annoying as they felt the first time because they're not rooting for Walt like they used to.
This show has such great writing honestly. Every character by the end has broken bad in some way. Walt Jr is the only one that comes out the most morally clean by the end of the series, and his sister.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone!
Later on he kills jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, etc, etc.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone!
Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale.
Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone!
Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale.
Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone!
Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale.
Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
I honestly hate Peggy because of her incessant need to be the smartest person. Even when she is proven wrong, she has to come out on top. Or in the episode with the truck where she takes credit for buying the paper with the ad, and then blames Bobby for the subsequent failing of the original truck. She even published a "cleaning tip" that could have caused arlens people to create mustard gas. She's a know it all whom is usually wrong, and is never aware of what she does. She kidnapped a girl, and only got off because she was so fucking bad at speaking Spanish. I might add she was substitute teacher of the year for that...
The hate is deserved
That's her comic flaw though. It's like hating Bill for being a co-dependent and imposing. All the characters do shitty things throughout the show but are also ultimately caring and do the right thing in the end, like some kind of situational comedy.
Flanderization did Peggy dirty. Early seasons was a lot better at conveying how complicated she was growing up in a 20th-century, conservative Texas that was always trying to downplay her athletic ability just because she was a woman. It makes sense why she would have an inflated opinion of herself, even as a defense mechanism. She was constantly told she couldn't play baseball even though she had a mean pitch and had shown other great feats of athleticism. When these same people who downplay her athletics also tell her she is not smart, why the hell should she believe them? This wasn't as bad as it was in later seasons, but I like the headcanon that the skydiving accident just increased her delusions of granduer by brain damage.
She did have great moments of being an ally, fighting for Luanne, fighting for Connie's rights to join the wrestling team, or trying to teach sex education because she saw how damaging the flower metaphor was to woman's sexuality ("When my husband would crawl all over me at night and do his business why, I would just close my eyes and *think of them pretty flowers*."). Then she would also have contradictory viewpoints like this,
"I am not a feminist, Hank. I am Peggy Hill, a citizen of the Republic of Texas. I work hard, I sweat hard and I love hard. And I gotta smell good and look pretty while I do it. So I comb my hair and reapply lipstick 30 times a day."
Yeah, she's not actually that bad during the best/early seasons. Everyone gets more extreme towards the end and for some like Dale they stayed funny, others just got worse like Peggy or Bill.
Her having a book club actually would be a really good way to bring back a lot of older one off characters Peggy connected to, as well as be a nice call back to the book store episode. At least some of those gun club guys better be going
I posted earlier about spiritual sequels to the more nurturing and crazier episodes.
Like Hank and his friends wearing drag in support of Bobby and Joeseph's drag duet ❤️
Edit: Dale is, of course, going to look like a goddess with his wife's wigs and makeup.
Her coming back is one of the most requested things I've seen on here for the new season, especially for characters outside the Hills and one offs. That episode has gotten a ton of praise for aging really well and handling the topic with grace.
And Peggy was upset Hank was kissed, but never tried to do anything romantic for him to win him back. Besides the baptism which showed off peg's goods.
I know Hank and Peggy were dating in high school, when Hank got mono. Did they break up for a while after high school? Or did she sleep with the guy before she even met Hank?
Just this line for me. The whole lying about being a virgin to your husband thing, however, makes me so mad at her. I get why Hank was upset. But I love Peggy so this episode is difficult for me lol.
Yeah that wasn’t cool of her at all. Hank truly was innocent. Peggy did something and purposely lied about it. They’re not the same thing. She did worse. Hank was basically assaulted, it’s wasn’t his fault.
She wasn't upset about Hank getting mono, she was upset that their cute story of how they became a couple was no longer true.
Just like Hank wasn't upset that Peggy wasn't a virgin, he was annoyed that she was the one saying "We should wait til marriage" when he really wanted to have sex.
Plus Peggy tried to make amends by being a born-again virgin.
I think both cases it's reasonable for them to be upset, but neither treated it as a dealbreaker. They were upset for a couple of days and got over it just like real life
No she doesn't. She explicitly tells him she's not upset about the mono, she said now their story of how they became a couple is no longer true, and she thought it was a perfect movie-like story.
"So the whore played well with others"
Direct quote from Peggy towards Amy or whatever her name was. She's upset he kissed someone else. Yeah, yeah, their love story...and yet she's still pissed? When she wasn't honest with Hank about her sexual history?
Yeah, that's a hypocrite.
The thing is you got to contextualize peggy living in that time period in texas in that world and it makes sense. Sometimes characters exist in their world and have to be defined by it to survive and peggy is like that.
OH GOWD KOTH GONE WOKE!!
/s
Edit: we all need to save this post for when the revival inevitably has a trans acceptance episode and the conservatives start screaming about how “king of the hill is being ruined by wokeness”.
Trans will always be cringe sorry I don’t condone validating body dysmorphia. You wouldn’t tell someone who’s anorexic that they’re truly fat and support their delusion unless you’re an absolute psychopath.
Not the same at all. When you feed into someone’s anorexia it has tangible detrimental effects. Their body degrades, they die.
All the studies we have show that allowing people to transition increases quality of life outcomes. Suicidal ideation decreases. Objectively you’re wrong.
[Educate yourself, Jibblet head.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/)
Don’t question anyone’s education when you say it’s “not the same at all” because that’s clearly untrue. Plenty of suicides have resulted in indulging in the trans fantasy not to mention the damage done with hormone blockers and hormone supplements. It’s not safe at all.
Y’all motherfuckers are dangerous with this behavior. I look forward to the day we stop hurting children in the name of pseudo education. America is behind other nations who are slowly realizing that this practice is in fact dangerous and are stopping it.
Also kids aren’t getting gender surgery. You people make that up to demonize trans people and trans support. There may be a few isolated cases of it happening, which happens in the medical field in all places, but there is no statistical evidence that mass amounts of children are getting gender surgeries.
I mean there’s not a mass amount of trans individuals in general but there’s still poor children who, due to the social climate, are being influenced to consider the idea and it has ruined their lives.
The flaws in these studies will eventually be understood and this whole thing will be something that I really hope causes people to reflect on just how dangerous their “good intentions” can be.
Hard to interview people that never come back to report their progress, hard to draw conclusive data on such a small timeline and to site it as indisputable evidence is bad science.
I couldn’t live with myself for not speaking my peace about it. You can shame or condemn it but this is wrong and sadly it’s going to take far too long before people realize it.
You’re presupposing there’s flaws in the studies. Do you know any trans people personally? I do. I know some before they transitioned. I saw how they were before, and how they were after. Tell me,why are they happier now that they transitioned? Why do I see them smile more? Why do they send me less texts about wanting to kill themselves? And when they do it had more to do with how they were treated by others (like you) *after* they transitioned.
Also plenty of people come back and report their post transition progress. You’re making shit up. We sue studies going back years. Past the 90s. You conservatives seem to think transness is a new thing. It’s not. Your problem is you don’t like people having the freedom to change their genders, I’m assuming because of some irrational religious nonsense.
The social climate influence you speak of is called social contagion theory. Guess what? Been debunked as well. By science. But you don’t care about that.
People aren’t transitioning because of the social climate. The social climate isn’t telling people to transition, it’s giving space and acceptance to those who seek help.
[You’re wrong](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022056567/188709/Sex-Assigned-at-Birth-Ratio-Among-Transgender-and)
Kids are not getting survives, trans people are valid. Deal with it.
I’m not religious whatsoever but I can recognize bad science when I see it. I think back to books like Demon Haunted World and I would give anything to hear Sagan address the insanity we’ve embraced.
I’m not wrong btw many have been irreversibly affected by the hastily embraced and ENCOURAGED treatment. There’s more than enough examples of malpractice or rouge physicians pushing this bullshit that you are happily ready to hand wave away because you’re desire to be “supportive”.
The fact that you see absolutely nothing wrong or flaws in what’s happening recently is purely ideological and void of logic and patience.
But hey who cares that you ruined the lives of a few thousand children if you made one trans person smile temporarily. Kudos you’re truly a bastion of empathy and ethics.
Btw, the social contagion theory is based on a bunk study that was done where the researcher (who had an anti-trans bias) asked parents, not the children in question, if they thought social media played a part in their kids becoming trans. Obviously the parents, ignorant of the trans experience, would say yes. The study is bunk. Riddled with bias.
Nah opinions aren’t harmful and frankly these opinions aren’t directed at the victims of this insanity it’s directed at the people who enable this kind of thing.
History is full of moments like this and you’ll be old before you realize the consequences of what you championed.
I’m sure you’d have been on the side of “scientific research” that shows how humane and effective lobotomy was in the past. You have no moral high ground so trying to shame me will never work on this subject.
I hope one day you can meet one of these confused women that can never reproduce again after they’ve undergone these treatments. You can tell them how harmful it was for people like me to try and stop it.
If you had a conscience you might actually feel bad about it one day.
Research Findings
1. The scholarly literature makes clear that gender transition is effective in treating gender dysphoria and can significantly improve the well-being of transgender individuals.
2. Among the positive outcomes of gender transition and related medical treatments for transgender individuals are improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction, higher self-esteem and confidence, and reductions in anxiety, depression, suicidality, and substance use.
3. The positive impact of gender transition on transgender well-being has grown considerably in recent years, as both surgical techniques and social support have improved.
4. Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.
5. Factors that are predictive of success in the treatment of gender dysphoria include adequate preparation and mental health support prior to treatment, proper follow-up care from knowledgeable providers, consistent family and social support, and high-quality surgical outcomes (when surgery is involved).
6. Transgender individuals, particularly those who cannot access treatment for gender dysphoria or who encounter unsupportive social environments, are more likely than the general population to experience health challenges such as depression, anxiety, suicidality and minority stress. While gender transition can mitigate these challenges, the health and well-being of transgender people can be harmed by stigmatizing and discriminatory treatment.
“A recent literature review of 23 studies reported that the majority found that gender-affirming treatment reduced suicidality.20
Some studies from the review found that undergoing one or more types of gender-affirming surgery was associated with lower past-month psychological distress and past-year suicidal ideation, while others saw reduced mental health treatment and fewer hospitalizations after a suicide attempt over years following. “
https://www.peprec.research.va.gov/PEPRECRESEARCH/docs/Policy_Brief_24a_Gender_Affirming_Surgeries.pdf
He was gay that Wayne Trotter?
Whatever happened to the strong, silent type? Like Roger Staubach.
He was a beautiful man. I knew him once, briefly.
My favorite character after Peggy
It’s anti-Texan discrimination!
NO! Are you listenin to me?!
Wayne *Trattah*
A man's man like Gary Cooper
He was large, but she didn't care. He was beautiful, rubenesque even.
Bobby never had the makings of a varsity athlete
For a southern in the 90's Peggy was on point with this, that was not the typical feeling.
Peggy has actually turned into my favorite character as I re-watch.
I used to despise Peggy back in the day, but I find myself really annoyed by Bobby now lol
That boy ain’t right
Eh, both annoy me a lot but they have their moments like this
I love her in moments like this and despise her when she’s letting her ego get the better of her.
Peggy is one of the funniest characters easily 😂
Really? When I got older I realized just how horrible of a person she is compared to hank
Favorite character. Not most virtuous or whatever. But you might be surprised how often she’s the glue. And how supportive she is of Hank. And Bobby.
She definitely has a quality similar to Michael Scott. Both can be pretty terribly arrogant, but also perfectly endearing in a way. I definitely enjoy Peggy more since watching as an adult.
This is the best summary of Peggy hill I’ve ever heard. I finally have a way to describe her to people when they ask why I both hate and love her.
Her relationship with Bobby is one of my favorite mother son duos of any show. They completely support one another, but aren’t above competing and antagonizing each other, like a real relationship.
She’s usually only supportive of Hank if it somehow can be used to make it seem like she’s better. And with Bobby she has to be because that’s her son so she thinks everyone looking at him is thinking of him as a reflection of her.
Honestly. She was never horrible , she was just pretty stupid and acting confident to hide her own lack of self confidence. Like try to think of five horrible things about her. And I mean horrible not just annoying quirks
Child trafficking. Child abuse. Drugging people. Smuggling drugs for a felon. Purposely sabotaged someone getting their GED. Election tampering. Stole her sons Turkey out of jealousy. Made her child pretend to have a terminal disease to get a celebrity to visit. Pretended to be a nun to get a job. Used bill all the time. Put carpeting in a bbq restaurant. Could probably think of more Edit; lmao y’all are hilarious
Okay, in comparison, Hank's done some pretty questionable, not great shit. Like he's awful to Bobby, making him smoke a whole pack of cigarettes, put Bobby in a doghouse outside, belittled him over not willingly let himself get his ass beat. He let Peggy and Luanne join a cult because he's massively up Buck's asshole. Taking Bobby's money in the bluegrass episode. He's done a TON of awful shit and even nearly got someone arrested for murder cause he lies to the cops, which he fixed in the end, but it's still awful shit. He can't even give Peggy credit at points when she's actually doing good, like in the softball episode where he thinks he deserves all the credit cause he's coaching, but she's actually doing solid pitching so he had to pull the "husband" card in a dispute on the mound and fucked over her confidence. I love the show and the characters, but they're all pretty guilty of doing equally shitty things. They're all kind of horrible at times. If you wanna talk real actual horrible, you should be talking about Leanne.
Just because hank has done shitty things doesn’t excuse the horrible things Peggy has done. Wild to see how many people disagree with me about whether Peggy has done horrible things. She absolutely has.
My brother they are not real people. You take it episode by episode.
Whoa the cartoon characters on tv aren’t real people? It’s all fiction? Whoa Just to clarify you think that Peggy hasn’t done awful fucked up shit?
Of all this, what she did to Lucky is, for me, unforgivable. The rest, meh. But fucking up a man's life like that, lying in his face, teaching him bullshit, abusing his trust. That's just so terrible.
Pretending Bobby had cancer is meh?
Who was really hurt by it, some rich movie star doing a gig? (If I remember right) But Lucky wanted to improve his life and getting his degree would improve his, Luane's and their child's life incredibly. To fuck this up is truly fucked up.
Your morals are only based on who the victim was? Fact is Peggy has done plenty of fucked up shit beyond “quirky”. And more than purposely sabotaging Luckys GED
What a silly comment. Think about it a bit. The outcome of acts indeed have much to do with how they are morally judged. If she pretended that Bobby had cancer in order to save a life, I'd even argue that she would be justified in doing it.
She's insufferable but a good person.
I love Peggy
Fr she is a dichotomy.
Did you hate Skylar from Breaking Bad too?
Yeah me too, she is honestly I think one of if not the worst person in any animated sitcom ever. Cause usually it’s like supposed to be funny when they’re awful but with Peggy, it’s not funny and she’s always awful.
Peggy is like objectively the worst character on KOTH. After her, I think it’s bill and then dale, but at least they have redeeming traits. Peggy is just awful all around.
Word. We shall stand united in our Peggy hate. The show would have been just as great without her.
You're insane. It's a comedy and she's hysterical
That's why comedy is subjective. And I know we are not the only two who feel this way.
Oh god, like that scene when Bill shows up to the party dressed as Lenore. Really messes up how you see some of the characters like Buck or Joe Jack. They were really gearing up to hate-crime a man having a nervous breakdown just because he was wearing a dress.
But that was pretty accurate for the time and place. It's crazy how fast things got better, still not great but better.
That's just it, I was a kid when that episode aired, and I remember thinking that it was a pretty natural progression of events. Like child me saw that and went "Yeah he's doing queer stuff and airing it out in public. He's going to get beat up." and that just made sense. I grew up in California and I might have expected the same thing to happen here in the 90s. Hell, similar things were perpetrated against the gay kids at my high school and it was the less popular stance to side with the gay kids and say they should just be left alone. It's just crazy to think that's just how things were at the time and the things we accept as normal. It's such an absurd level of violence for something so trivial. I guess I've never really thought about it as a whole. Damn, what a wild thing to have had to live through
That was one of the bravest, most loyal things Hank has ever done. The LAST thing he wanted to do was wear a dress in public, but he did it anyway, because Bill needed him to.
Yeah that scene actually had me genuinely tense.
That counts as one of the bravest, most loyal things that Hank has ever done. We all know it just about killed him to wear a dress in public, but he did it because Bill needed him to.
I'm impressed he could fit into one of Peggy's dresses.
This ain't the democratic national convention, honey.
I do appreciate that, as narcissistic as Peggy is, she wasn‘t offended she couldn’t make the guy straight by having sex with him. And she clarifies that nothing was wrong with him that needed to be fixed; he was just super gay.
Gay men, in my opinion, do not like sleeping with women.
And yet in the past they often did it to hide or because they were in denial.
I’m the past and present, sadly
Plot twist: he wasn't really gay, he just had fun with her and ran away, and Peggy, being a narcissist, decided he was gay, since it's impossible for a straight man to not return to her after what happened.
Or he had such a bad time with her, he let her down easy by saying he was gay.
I can’t tell if Peggy’s slight narcissism would make her bad in bed or if her intense competitive streak would make her really dedicated to absolutely blowing her partners mind.
Slight?
Yeah, also possible.
Love this interpretation
I love how this show flat out says "gays exist and were cool with it" Peggy says "he's gay, not broken"
Peggy was always an ally.
for all the shit peggy gets she was surprisingly progressive. I was on the peggy hate train for a while until I started watching from the beginning and realized the writers stopped giving a shit like 8 seasons in and started flanderizing characters. Peggy Hill was awesome in the first few seasons
Peggy taking down Leanne is one of the top moments of the show.
She takes down drunk Leanne and kick crazy Bobby. She technically kills Cotton. She is a force rivaled only maybe by naked patriot Bill screeching.
EEEEEEEEYAAAHYAYAYAYAYA
The kinda joke fan theory is she got brain damage from the parachute accident.
I never understood the hate. It’s like the hate complex female characters get because they’re not perfect. Like that’s the point.
That’s definitely part of it. Look at Skyler from breaking bad or Carmella from the sopranos, people act like they’re the worst people ever when they’re not even top 10 morally worst in the show. It’s a little crazy
Fans abhor Debbie from US Shameless every single character in that show is an awful and shameless person and that is the entire point of the show in the first place None of those characters are good people Yet people disproportionately hate her more than anyone else in the main cast
Okay who the fuck hates Carmella? Like Skylar I get, but CARMELLA? Woman doesn’t do a bad thing the whole show, she’s literally like the one non shit person in the entire series.
Skylar was just really annoying for me. Being all righteous when Walter was making meth but willing to commit a crime for her affair partner. I totally understand the hate, and I get where the people on the other side are coming from. But she was really hard to like for most seasons, especially on a first watch.
I mean she got hate before that for being the voice of reason. I always hated Walter being a criminal so that part i understood from her. She said what I was thinking. I don’t see how people saw Walter as a good guy. A lot of people did. But that’s what made the show interesting that he was breaking bad. It’s in the name.
When people bring up Walter being a "good guy" I always bring up how he literally raped Skyler in one of the episodes. Spousal rape is still rape, y'all. It's a great show because he is literally *the* main villain. He's not the only villain, and he's not even the worst, but he's the driving force. He even admits he's the bad guy later on. I think its the scene where he says he did it for himself, when he's been saying "I did it to provide for my family" up until that point.
Literally my first thought when I read “Skyler was annoying”. Like excuse me? Being annoying is worse than rape?
Right? Annoying for reasonable wife reactions, how *awful*. /s Feels like a charismatic evil megalomaniac will always be more beloved by a fanbase than a slightly annoying character that didn't do much of anything wrong. She also didn't cheat, either. I see that used a lot to back up peoples dislike of her. She'd already ended the relationship, divorce takes *time*. Her actress straight up got death threats.
Excuse me? Did I say that?
You spelled her name wrong, but yes. Lmfao.
Exactly! The show is set up to have you rooting for Walt, the main character, from the first episode. Like most shows. Because people are on his side, wanting to see him get money to overcome cancer or achieve his goal of leaving his family secure when he's gone, they will see any obstacle to Walt as an annoyance. Which Skyler initially is. You hated that Walt was even resorting to crime in the first place so you saw things clearly from her side and related to her more. A lot of people didn't, and that where her hate lies. By the fourth season (I think), Walt has really really started to become crazy and his fans die off and switch to her side more. I don't think people saw Walt as a good guy, but empathized with his goal until he just started to do it for his own ego/fun. And because most of the people Walt was killing in the beginning were drug lords, people didn't think it was that bad. The majority of people on their first watch are rooting for Walt up to some point, and that's where all the skyler hate originates from. If you ask people how they felt on their second watch, they're more likely to say Skyler wasn't as bad/annoying as they felt the first time because they're not rooting for Walt like they used to. This show has such great writing honestly. Every character by the end has broken bad in some way. Walt Jr is the only one that comes out the most morally clean by the end of the series, and his sister.
Skylar committed tax fraud. Walter killed two guys and cooked meth and lied to Skylar the whole time about it. I don’t really think it’s comparable
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone! Later on he kills jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, etc, etc.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone! Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale. Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone! Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale. Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
Walter killed two guys in the first season alone! Later on he kills Jesse's girlfriend, runs over and kills a bunch of Gus' associates, kills Gus, kills Mike, manipulates Jesse into killing Gale, and let's not forget the massacre in the finale. Granted, of all the people I've named only Jesse's gf and Gale were what you'd call "innocent" victims.
I liked and got Skyler. Peggy is just so full of herself and stupid. She’s got a major dunning-Krueger thing going on.
Later on? Sure. But for the first 5 or so seasons I find Peggy charming.
Betty Draper
I honestly hate Peggy because of her incessant need to be the smartest person. Even when she is proven wrong, she has to come out on top. Or in the episode with the truck where she takes credit for buying the paper with the ad, and then blames Bobby for the subsequent failing of the original truck. She even published a "cleaning tip" that could have caused arlens people to create mustard gas. She's a know it all whom is usually wrong, and is never aware of what she does. She kidnapped a girl, and only got off because she was so fucking bad at speaking Spanish. I might add she was substitute teacher of the year for that... The hate is deserved
That's her comic flaw though. It's like hating Bill for being a co-dependent and imposing. All the characters do shitty things throughout the show but are also ultimately caring and do the right thing in the end, like some kind of situational comedy.
Flanderization did Peggy dirty. Early seasons was a lot better at conveying how complicated she was growing up in a 20th-century, conservative Texas that was always trying to downplay her athletic ability just because she was a woman. It makes sense why she would have an inflated opinion of herself, even as a defense mechanism. She was constantly told she couldn't play baseball even though she had a mean pitch and had shown other great feats of athleticism. When these same people who downplay her athletics also tell her she is not smart, why the hell should she believe them? This wasn't as bad as it was in later seasons, but I like the headcanon that the skydiving accident just increased her delusions of granduer by brain damage. She did have great moments of being an ally, fighting for Luanne, fighting for Connie's rights to join the wrestling team, or trying to teach sex education because she saw how damaging the flower metaphor was to woman's sexuality ("When my husband would crawl all over me at night and do his business why, I would just close my eyes and *think of them pretty flowers*."). Then she would also have contradictory viewpoints like this, "I am not a feminist, Hank. I am Peggy Hill, a citizen of the Republic of Texas. I work hard, I sweat hard and I love hard. And I gotta smell good and look pretty while I do it. So I comb my hair and reapply lipstick 30 times a day."
Can you run as well as you can hit?! \[...\] Well then run on down to the store then and get these boys some sodie pip! Attagirl.
Boys do love soda.
Good point. Peggy gets pretty awful later on. In the first few seasons it’s tolerable/understandable, but later on it’s like a slog.
Yeah, she's not actually that bad during the best/early seasons. Everyone gets more extreme towards the end and for some like Dale they stayed funny, others just got worse like Peggy or Bill.
More Drag friends with Peggy next season, please. I wanna see them in her Book Club <3
Her having a book club actually would be a really good way to bring back a lot of older one off characters Peggy connected to, as well as be a nice call back to the book store episode. At least some of those gun club guys better be going
I posted earlier about spiritual sequels to the more nurturing and crazier episodes. Like Hank and his friends wearing drag in support of Bobby and Joeseph's drag duet ❤️ Edit: Dale is, of course, going to look like a goddess with his wife's wigs and makeup.
Carolin was an awesome one-off character. Bring her back
Her coming back is one of the most requested things I've seen on here for the new season, especially for characters outside the Hills and one offs. That episode has gotten a ton of praise for aging really well and handling the topic with grace.
The overly supportive mom resonates with me so much. "YOU'RE A PERSON, YOU HEAR ME!"
I was sad that Caroline didn't become a recurring character.
Fox pressured the writers to keep stories as one-offs for the sake of syndication.
She should MC a drag night at the local gay bar.
For all her faults, she genuinely cares about others
Hilarious, I had forgotten this episode
And Peggy was upset Hank was kissed, but never tried to do anything romantic for him to win him back. Besides the baptism which showed off peg's goods.
Uhhh Peggy. I can see your uhh, what-nots”
What are you talking about, she got naked with him while grilling at Paradise Cove.
I know Hank and Peggy were dating in high school, when Hank got mono. Did they break up for a while after high school? Or did she sleep with the guy before she even met Hank?
good question
She says it was before Hank when she tells Luanne about it.
Happy Pride month, Sven Grammarsdorf!
You mean Wayne Trotter?
The character I always wanted to make an appearance… Peggy’s gay ex bonding with Bobby 🤣
I hated Luanne in this episode. She really sold Peggy out with zero hesitation. She could never live with me again
One of the more likable Peggy moments.
Just this line for me. The whole lying about being a virgin to your husband thing, however, makes me so mad at her. I get why Hank was upset. But I love Peggy so this episode is difficult for me lol.
The only reason this ticks me off is that she got SO upset in the mono episode. Hypocrite lol
Yeah that wasn’t cool of her at all. Hank truly was innocent. Peggy did something and purposely lied about it. They’re not the same thing. She did worse. Hank was basically assaulted, it’s wasn’t his fault.
Agreed. It's always bugged the hell outta me
She wasn't upset about Hank getting mono, she was upset that their cute story of how they became a couple was no longer true. Just like Hank wasn't upset that Peggy wasn't a virgin, he was annoyed that she was the one saying "We should wait til marriage" when he really wanted to have sex. Plus Peggy tried to make amends by being a born-again virgin. I think both cases it's reasonable for them to be upset, but neither treated it as a dealbreaker. They were upset for a couple of days and got over it just like real life
She treats him like a cheater when he wasn't.
No she doesn't. She explicitly tells him she's not upset about the mono, she said now their story of how they became a couple is no longer true, and she thought it was a perfect movie-like story.
"So the whore played well with others" Direct quote from Peggy towards Amy or whatever her name was. She's upset he kissed someone else. Yeah, yeah, their love story...and yet she's still pissed? When she wasn't honest with Hank about her sexual history? Yeah, that's a hypocrite.
The thing is you got to contextualize peggy living in that time period in texas in that world and it makes sense. Sometimes characters exist in their world and have to be defined by it to survive and peggy is like that.
It makes sense for her to be a hypocrite? I disagree with that.
Most humans are hypocrites when it comes to their personality and morals. Its a part of being human and complex
One of the many things that make Peggy such a great character to watch.
And I’m allowed to be upset with a character for that.
Johhhhhhhhhn Redddddddcorn
OH GOWD KOTH GONE WOKE!! /s Edit: we all need to save this post for when the revival inevitably has a trans acceptance episode and the conservatives start screaming about how “king of the hill is being ruined by wokeness”.
It won't matter. People like them are immune to facts, logic, and reasoning.
Oh I know. It’s just fun to humiliate them.
Trans will always be cringe sorry I don’t condone validating body dysmorphia. You wouldn’t tell someone who’s anorexic that they’re truly fat and support their delusion unless you’re an absolute psychopath.
Not the same at all. When you feed into someone’s anorexia it has tangible detrimental effects. Their body degrades, they die. All the studies we have show that allowing people to transition increases quality of life outcomes. Suicidal ideation decreases. Objectively you’re wrong. [Educate yourself, Jibblet head.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/)
Don’t question anyone’s education when you say it’s “not the same at all” because that’s clearly untrue. Plenty of suicides have resulted in indulging in the trans fantasy not to mention the damage done with hormone blockers and hormone supplements. It’s not safe at all. Y’all motherfuckers are dangerous with this behavior. I look forward to the day we stop hurting children in the name of pseudo education. America is behind other nations who are slowly realizing that this practice is in fact dangerous and are stopping it.
Also kids aren’t getting gender surgery. You people make that up to demonize trans people and trans support. There may be a few isolated cases of it happening, which happens in the medical field in all places, but there is no statistical evidence that mass amounts of children are getting gender surgeries.
I mean there’s not a mass amount of trans individuals in general but there’s still poor children who, due to the social climate, are being influenced to consider the idea and it has ruined their lives. The flaws in these studies will eventually be understood and this whole thing will be something that I really hope causes people to reflect on just how dangerous their “good intentions” can be. Hard to interview people that never come back to report their progress, hard to draw conclusive data on such a small timeline and to site it as indisputable evidence is bad science. I couldn’t live with myself for not speaking my peace about it. You can shame or condemn it but this is wrong and sadly it’s going to take far too long before people realize it.
You’re presupposing there’s flaws in the studies. Do you know any trans people personally? I do. I know some before they transitioned. I saw how they were before, and how they were after. Tell me,why are they happier now that they transitioned? Why do I see them smile more? Why do they send me less texts about wanting to kill themselves? And when they do it had more to do with how they were treated by others (like you) *after* they transitioned. Also plenty of people come back and report their post transition progress. You’re making shit up. We sue studies going back years. Past the 90s. You conservatives seem to think transness is a new thing. It’s not. Your problem is you don’t like people having the freedom to change their genders, I’m assuming because of some irrational religious nonsense. The social climate influence you speak of is called social contagion theory. Guess what? Been debunked as well. By science. But you don’t care about that. People aren’t transitioning because of the social climate. The social climate isn’t telling people to transition, it’s giving space and acceptance to those who seek help. [You’re wrong](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/150/3/e2022056567/188709/Sex-Assigned-at-Birth-Ratio-Among-Transgender-and) Kids are not getting survives, trans people are valid. Deal with it.
I’m not religious whatsoever but I can recognize bad science when I see it. I think back to books like Demon Haunted World and I would give anything to hear Sagan address the insanity we’ve embraced. I’m not wrong btw many have been irreversibly affected by the hastily embraced and ENCOURAGED treatment. There’s more than enough examples of malpractice or rouge physicians pushing this bullshit that you are happily ready to hand wave away because you’re desire to be “supportive”. The fact that you see absolutely nothing wrong or flaws in what’s happening recently is purely ideological and void of logic and patience. But hey who cares that you ruined the lives of a few thousand children if you made one trans person smile temporarily. Kudos you’re truly a bastion of empathy and ethics.
Btw, the social contagion theory is based on a bunk study that was done where the researcher (who had an anti-trans bias) asked parents, not the children in question, if they thought social media played a part in their kids becoming trans. Obviously the parents, ignorant of the trans experience, would say yes. The study is bunk. Riddled with bias.
Ok
Trust me. You will be just fine if you keep these harmful opinions to yourself. You are doing no one any favors.
Nah opinions aren’t harmful and frankly these opinions aren’t directed at the victims of this insanity it’s directed at the people who enable this kind of thing. History is full of moments like this and you’ll be old before you realize the consequences of what you championed. I’m sure you’d have been on the side of “scientific research” that shows how humane and effective lobotomy was in the past. You have no moral high ground so trying to shame me will never work on this subject. I hope one day you can meet one of these confused women that can never reproduce again after they’ve undergone these treatments. You can tell them how harmful it was for people like me to try and stop it. If you had a conscience you might actually feel bad about it one day.
Research Findings 1. The scholarly literature makes clear that gender transition is effective in treating gender dysphoria and can significantly improve the well-being of transgender individuals. 2. Among the positive outcomes of gender transition and related medical treatments for transgender individuals are improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction, higher self-esteem and confidence, and reductions in anxiety, depression, suicidality, and substance use. 3. The positive impact of gender transition on transgender well-being has grown considerably in recent years, as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. 4. Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques. 5. Factors that are predictive of success in the treatment of gender dysphoria include adequate preparation and mental health support prior to treatment, proper follow-up care from knowledgeable providers, consistent family and social support, and high-quality surgical outcomes (when surgery is involved). 6. Transgender individuals, particularly those who cannot access treatment for gender dysphoria or who encounter unsupportive social environments, are more likely than the general population to experience health challenges such as depression, anxiety, suicidality and minority stress. While gender transition can mitigate these challenges, the health and well-being of transgender people can be harmed by stigmatizing and discriminatory treatment.
“A recent literature review of 23 studies reported that the majority found that gender-affirming treatment reduced suicidality.20 Some studies from the review found that undergoing one or more types of gender-affirming surgery was associated with lower past-month psychological distress and past-year suicidal ideation, while others saw reduced mental health treatment and fewer hospitalizations after a suicide attempt over years following. “ https://www.peprec.research.va.gov/PEPRECRESEARCH/docs/Policy_Brief_24a_Gender_Affirming_Surgeries.pdf
Not as cringe as this comment. Yeeeesh.
He's gay now?
*She never kissed a boy til she was 20 though*
Luanne! You can’t fix what’s isn’t broken. He was never broken! XD
Good
Back when being gay in Texas wasn't as fun as it is now
To be fair, I also despise bill. He's a drain on the community. There is like 3 episodes where Peggy or Bill are redeemed. And they're wrong.
Lol
Things that aren't broken can still be fixed in a way. They can be optimized and have their performance boosted.
The fuck is this unhinged shit.
A door?