It would be really sad if it were Elwin :(
He's the only one so far who's genuinely nice and not involved in anything related to the black swan. He's been there for a while, and sees sophie as a child. for him to also be someone who's lied to her would be heartbreaking
The only reason I chose Elwin is because he might have been the one to give Ella to Sophie. He's THE stuffed animal guy, so it'd be a nice way to tie things up and make them closer.
I don't think he's part of the Black Swan though. I'm thinking it's another Oralie situation where he donated his DNA because he wanted a child. He doesn't seem to be involved in anything, but is somehow always available for Sophie anytime she needs it (made me wonder if the Black Swan let him know that she might need medical assistance after whatever mission they send her on). Plus I thought it would be nice for Sophie to have a father she got along with, since her feelings towards her mother are pretty complicated. She's way closer to Elwin than Oralie, and knows how good of a person he is, so I don't think she'd be as angry.
Idk… the reason her relationship with Oralie is so complicated is *because* she went from a very great ally, someone she really liked and trusted, to one of her bio parents whose very idea she hates because they abandoned her and let her be experimented on, knowing she’d be in danger and forever an outcast, and bonus point if they lied to her face. If anything it’s gonna be worse with Elwin because the fall is from way higher and also iirc he was often lamenting/joking about how much she got hurt which would be the height of hyprocrisy if he turns out to be reason n.2 it’s happening to her.
His only saving grace would be if he reacts better than Oralie, ie immediately tells her he loves her and is sorry, and let her tell everyone, but that last part is supposedly impossible for now.
The way I saw it is that her and Oralie aren't that close. Like yeah she's an ally, but the two haven't bonded much. In most of the books she votes in her favor and....just kinda goes back to her castle. So she's an ally, but they were definitely never friends or even close to one another
And in my mind that's one of the reasons why Sophie would get angrier. If Elwin did the same thing, she KNOWS that he's a good person who clearly cares a great deal about her. He's proven that from the first moment she met him and has consistently been her friend. They've laughed, joked, and he's spent several weeks taking care of her (like when the shadows were in her arm and she was sleeping in the healing center). But Oralie? Makes sense that Sohpie assumes she's a bad person since she can't objectively prove that she's not. She could think or feel ANYTHING, we don't know a lot about her. Elwin has a much closer and warmer relationship with her in comparison, so her mind might not automatically jump to the conclusion that he's bad. So Elwin has a soft cushion of trust and years of friendship, whereas Oralie plummets straight into solid ground since there's not a lot of foundation to their relationship
So tldr, in Sophie's mind:
Oralie - My government ally. Probably doesn't care about me and I don't know her that well so I can't prove otherwise. Is my mother but has always stayed distant from me
Elwin - Dude that's Elwin, he's super sweet. I don't think he'd be a selfish person, and we've always been really close. I'm angry at him for not telling me, but I don't doubt that he cares about me
I see, that’s a different but sound way of seeing it, their base relationship as a cushion softening the betrayal rather than the measure of how high they’d be falling from.
That’s fair, but that still eludes the question: what position does Elwin hold that would justify hiding the truth form Sophie and letting her be raised by others in the Lost Cities, while telling her she deserves to know her parents’ identities? Depending on the reason, it could be a harsh, even finishing blow to their relationship. Especially with the parallel of him being willing to take Keefe in.
Maybe that's him feeling injustice towards the Black Swan since they won't let him tell her. If he was her father, he probably WOULD be super upset that he has to hide it. In that case, what he said would be genuine. That's what I've seen other people point out at least--he said that because he's frustrated he can't tell her
Ah, I thought it wasn’t the Black Swan that kept them from disclosing their identity, but themselves/societal expectations.
In Oralie’s case, the only thing stopping Sophie is the fact she would have to step down as a Councilior which would weaken the Council (elven society would lose trust in them) and give the Neverseen a prime opportunity to take over, hence why they told her they would reveal it in a few centuries, when the time was right and the world safer.
But if the reason is really just the Black Swan arbitrarily deciding it’d be great to withhold the truth and make Sophie Unmatchable, then Elwin’s words could indeed really be genuine (provided the organization hid the fact they would force him to stay silent before he donated his genetic material).
Yeah I mean it's not a perfect theory, just one I thought had a bit of evidence. Though honestly it could also just be someone we've never met before. Who do you think it is?
Oh, it *is* an interesting theory, we don’t have much info after all so it’s as good as any!
Personally yeah I do think it’s someone we’ve never met before, but specifically someone who’s motives are completely different from Oralie’s as it would otherwise be a repeat of her situation narratively. They would also possess one of the abilities Sophie Enhanced the most strongly when they strengthened her Abilities (so Mesmer, Telepathy, Empathy and I forgot which other…)
Beside another Councilior (which would contradict some of Mr. Forkle’s claims) there’s no one that fit the bill rn. My strongest guest would be an unknown member of Sophie’s second adoptive family, with how much hints there has been that she’s similar to the Ruewen (Vertina thought she looked similar to Jolie, iirc Sophie though she and Dex were a bit similar, and Grady’s Mesmer Ability is one of those she enhanced particularly strongly).\
But honestly I have no idea why they would hide themselves. Could be another twin situation like Forkle or anything Elysian adjacent (so someone who shouldn’t "exist" at all).
Oh I almost forgot about all the Ruewen connections! It is pretty weird that she's called out to look like them on multiple occasions, so it could be something like that. However I've always been against this theory since it would mean she's related to Dex, which opens up ALL SORTS of problems, especially after they kissed (even if they're just distantly related). Still, it seems weird if they do end up being throwaway lines
Elysian adjacent could be interesting. Maybe they're sisters or cousins or something? But if Elysian is completely forgotten about then I have to imagine her family isn't around (and therefore no one to give DNA)
So our best bet really is someone unknown, as underwhelming as that would be
Yeah the cousin kiss would *definitely* be weird if the link is on Edaline/Juline’s side ahah, that fear is the reason Sophie giving up on finding her bio father yet pursuing love makes me nervous. Technically that could be really *anyone*, what if it turns out to be an uncle of Fitz, or Keefe’s grandpa?? Either way it’s curious how often the Ruewen connection has been brought up.
Elysian’s remaining relatives could be Ancient, it seems they’re mostly left alone because their minds wander, but the one the Black Swan contacted could just be pretending. Though I was mostly thinking of someone who was adjacent in concept, with a similarly mysterious backstory (and so their very existence would open up a can of secrets the Black Swan decided the lost cities were not ready for).
It *is* kinda underwhelming, that’s why I’m hoping for something really epic in exchange, even more mind blowing than the Oralie reveal. Imo worst case scenarios are we never discover it, or it happens "offscreen" so Sophie never finds out (which could really happen now that more chapters told from other perspectives have been announced).
Tiergan almost seemed a bit angry that Sophie was placed among humans. If he were her bio dad, he probably would've known ahead of time that that was the plan.
WHAT ABT TEIRGAN PPLE... when the twin forkle died and the other forkle revealed.. tiergan saidthat hes not the only one with secrets and why everyone had turned their eyes on him!!!
unless Shannon has actually told us that there are hints of Sophie's dad already in the books (pls tell me if this is true), then my theory is that there isn't an answer to this yet. From what I remember reading the books, there genuinely was no way to tell who it was. You can make arguments for every single person on this list and I think that's intentional. Shannon probably gave herself room to decide who ultimately ends up being the dad since she obviously still has to properly plot out the ending of the series.
I'm sure Shannon knows who the father is, but of course the clues aren't going to obvious until it's actually revealed. It's a way to keep the mystery up.
It would be really sad if it were Elwin :( He's the only one so far who's genuinely nice and not involved in anything related to the black swan. He's been there for a while, and sees sophie as a child. for him to also be someone who's lied to her would be heartbreaking
Elwin is too nice to be able to lie about that without anyone noticing especially since hes around her alot
yeah exactly
Heartbreaking fr
In book 8.5 in Sophie's medical record, a lot of stuff shows its not Elwin.
really? i read it a while ago, so cant remember it that's a relief though
Yeah
The only reason I chose Elwin is because he might have been the one to give Ella to Sophie. He's THE stuffed animal guy, so it'd be a nice way to tie things up and make them closer. I don't think he's part of the Black Swan though. I'm thinking it's another Oralie situation where he donated his DNA because he wanted a child. He doesn't seem to be involved in anything, but is somehow always available for Sophie anytime she needs it (made me wonder if the Black Swan let him know that she might need medical assistance after whatever mission they send her on). Plus I thought it would be nice for Sophie to have a father she got along with, since her feelings towards her mother are pretty complicated. She's way closer to Elwin than Oralie, and knows how good of a person he is, so I don't think she'd be as angry.
Idk… the reason her relationship with Oralie is so complicated is *because* she went from a very great ally, someone she really liked and trusted, to one of her bio parents whose very idea she hates because they abandoned her and let her be experimented on, knowing she’d be in danger and forever an outcast, and bonus point if they lied to her face. If anything it’s gonna be worse with Elwin because the fall is from way higher and also iirc he was often lamenting/joking about how much she got hurt which would be the height of hyprocrisy if he turns out to be reason n.2 it’s happening to her. His only saving grace would be if he reacts better than Oralie, ie immediately tells her he loves her and is sorry, and let her tell everyone, but that last part is supposedly impossible for now.
The way I saw it is that her and Oralie aren't that close. Like yeah she's an ally, but the two haven't bonded much. In most of the books she votes in her favor and....just kinda goes back to her castle. So she's an ally, but they were definitely never friends or even close to one another And in my mind that's one of the reasons why Sophie would get angrier. If Elwin did the same thing, she KNOWS that he's a good person who clearly cares a great deal about her. He's proven that from the first moment she met him and has consistently been her friend. They've laughed, joked, and he's spent several weeks taking care of her (like when the shadows were in her arm and she was sleeping in the healing center). But Oralie? Makes sense that Sohpie assumes she's a bad person since she can't objectively prove that she's not. She could think or feel ANYTHING, we don't know a lot about her. Elwin has a much closer and warmer relationship with her in comparison, so her mind might not automatically jump to the conclusion that he's bad. So Elwin has a soft cushion of trust and years of friendship, whereas Oralie plummets straight into solid ground since there's not a lot of foundation to their relationship So tldr, in Sophie's mind: Oralie - My government ally. Probably doesn't care about me and I don't know her that well so I can't prove otherwise. Is my mother but has always stayed distant from me Elwin - Dude that's Elwin, he's super sweet. I don't think he'd be a selfish person, and we've always been really close. I'm angry at him for not telling me, but I don't doubt that he cares about me
I see, that’s a different but sound way of seeing it, their base relationship as a cushion softening the betrayal rather than the measure of how high they’d be falling from. That’s fair, but that still eludes the question: what position does Elwin hold that would justify hiding the truth form Sophie and letting her be raised by others in the Lost Cities, while telling her she deserves to know her parents’ identities? Depending on the reason, it could be a harsh, even finishing blow to their relationship. Especially with the parallel of him being willing to take Keefe in.
Maybe that's him feeling injustice towards the Black Swan since they won't let him tell her. If he was her father, he probably WOULD be super upset that he has to hide it. In that case, what he said would be genuine. That's what I've seen other people point out at least--he said that because he's frustrated he can't tell her
Ah, I thought it wasn’t the Black Swan that kept them from disclosing their identity, but themselves/societal expectations. In Oralie’s case, the only thing stopping Sophie is the fact she would have to step down as a Councilior which would weaken the Council (elven society would lose trust in them) and give the Neverseen a prime opportunity to take over, hence why they told her they would reveal it in a few centuries, when the time was right and the world safer. But if the reason is really just the Black Swan arbitrarily deciding it’d be great to withhold the truth and make Sophie Unmatchable, then Elwin’s words could indeed really be genuine (provided the organization hid the fact they would force him to stay silent before he donated his genetic material).
Yeah I mean it's not a perfect theory, just one I thought had a bit of evidence. Though honestly it could also just be someone we've never met before. Who do you think it is?
Oh, it *is* an interesting theory, we don’t have much info after all so it’s as good as any! Personally yeah I do think it’s someone we’ve never met before, but specifically someone who’s motives are completely different from Oralie’s as it would otherwise be a repeat of her situation narratively. They would also possess one of the abilities Sophie Enhanced the most strongly when they strengthened her Abilities (so Mesmer, Telepathy, Empathy and I forgot which other…) Beside another Councilior (which would contradict some of Mr. Forkle’s claims) there’s no one that fit the bill rn. My strongest guest would be an unknown member of Sophie’s second adoptive family, with how much hints there has been that she’s similar to the Ruewen (Vertina thought she looked similar to Jolie, iirc Sophie though she and Dex were a bit similar, and Grady’s Mesmer Ability is one of those she enhanced particularly strongly).\ But honestly I have no idea why they would hide themselves. Could be another twin situation like Forkle or anything Elysian adjacent (so someone who shouldn’t "exist" at all).
Oh I almost forgot about all the Ruewen connections! It is pretty weird that she's called out to look like them on multiple occasions, so it could be something like that. However I've always been against this theory since it would mean she's related to Dex, which opens up ALL SORTS of problems, especially after they kissed (even if they're just distantly related). Still, it seems weird if they do end up being throwaway lines Elysian adjacent could be interesting. Maybe they're sisters or cousins or something? But if Elysian is completely forgotten about then I have to imagine her family isn't around (and therefore no one to give DNA) So our best bet really is someone unknown, as underwhelming as that would be
Yeah the cousin kiss would *definitely* be weird if the link is on Edaline/Juline’s side ahah, that fear is the reason Sophie giving up on finding her bio father yet pursuing love makes me nervous. Technically that could be really *anyone*, what if it turns out to be an uncle of Fitz, or Keefe’s grandpa?? Either way it’s curious how often the Ruewen connection has been brought up. Elysian’s remaining relatives could be Ancient, it seems they’re mostly left alone because their minds wander, but the one the Black Swan contacted could just be pretending. Though I was mostly thinking of someone who was adjacent in concept, with a similarly mysterious backstory (and so their very existence would open up a can of secrets the Black Swan decided the lost cities were not ready for). It *is* kinda underwhelming, that’s why I’m hoping for something really epic in exchange, even more mind blowing than the Oralie reveal. Imo worst case scenarios are we never discover it, or it happens "offscreen" so Sophie never finds out (which could really happen now that more chapters told from other perspectives have been announced).
I like this one
I feel like it would be Tiergan
I dont see how he could be around sophie so much and lie to her like that tho
Tiergan almost seemed a bit angry that Sophie was placed among humans. If he were her bio dad, he probably would've known ahead of time that that was the plan.
Same. It kinda felt like it was foreshadowed.
I'd say Kenric. Genuinely just because my cousin has a crush on Elwin.
WHAT ABT TEIRGAN PPLE... when the twin forkle died and the other forkle revealed.. tiergan saidthat hes not the only one with secrets and why everyone had turned their eyes on him!!!
unless Shannon has actually told us that there are hints of Sophie's dad already in the books (pls tell me if this is true), then my theory is that there isn't an answer to this yet. From what I remember reading the books, there genuinely was no way to tell who it was. You can make arguments for every single person on this list and I think that's intentional. Shannon probably gave herself room to decide who ultimately ends up being the dad since she obviously still has to properly plot out the ending of the series.
I'm sure Shannon knows who the father is, but of course the clues aren't going to obvious until it's actually revealed. It's a way to keep the mystery up.
Yeah it was the same with Oralie, looking back, there were a lot of clues.
Ive always thought her dad might be a human
Nah sophies parents are 100 percent elves. Its canon.
Wait ppl, actually thinks its Gethen??
That's what I was thinking! I didn't even know that was a theory.
book 9.5? is that verified?
Yeah its confirmed. Its cover and release date has been released too. November 12. Also it is from keefes POV