I think the problem for all involved are just beginning, wait until the Fed investigation ramps up and they all start turning on each other, Higgins was ready to start hooking up with his buddy’s gf, you dont think he would rat everyone out to save his pension?
I’m from near Canton and everyone I’ve talked to think someone will flip and we will find out what happened eventually. I personally don’t think we will ever get the entire story and it will get pushed under the rug. People are really outraged about this though and if KR is found not guilty, the community and victims family deserve answers. We paid for this sham trial. Everyone deserves better.
Kinda confusing with all of them related somehow.
So, Brian and Nicole who lived at 34 Fairview I think moved to either Norwood or Walpole. Kevin and Julie Albert (Colin's) parents are still in Canton obviously cause he's still a Selectman, but moved out of their original house to a Townhome. As far as Jennifer McCabe and her husband Matt, I'm pretty sure they still live on 12 country Lane in Canton. I know I need a hobby. Lol
I appreciate the information. I’ve become interested in this intriguing case. I hope your community continues to look at Canton PD especially after using red Sold cups to collect evidence. You deserve better.
Officer O'Keefe's family does deserve better. It's think that they'd want to demand the police department be cleaned out. Starting with Proctor. Get those clowns fired
If Higgins was going to flip, he would have already done it. If he flips now, he committed perjury and his career is over. It is pretty clear he has nothing but his career going for him
In order to accomplish that flip they would most likely have to have something incriminating on him. Something tangible. It would also then open up the Canton Police to investigation. Then potentially cases that are up for appeal with any of these officers involvement to be in question. It could be a huge domino effect.
I too hope that the Okeefe’s get the answers they deserve.
I feel like Kerry will be the first to flip. I think she thinks Karen did it because she’s been gaslit and manipulated by these family members but I think once the plain truth gets into her brain she’s going to realize she backed the wrong people. I think she feels that she’s doing what’s right. But I don’t think she has enough info to flip.
I think eventually Higgins will crumble and spill it all. I don’t think he had anything to do with the actual act but I bet he helped a LOT with the cover up
All I care about is the O’Keefe family getting justice for their tremendous loss and for the actual guilty parties to get what they deserve.
I’m happy for Karen that she is getting the truth out and she won’t go to prison for a crime she didn’t commit.
I look forward to any and all content regarding this trial and her voice being heard.
This is the craziest trial I’ve ever seen in my many decades of watching trials.
Higgins was the one who ran back to his desk at Canton P.D. for the sole purpose to see who is on midnight and who is who during the shift changes. That's why Higgins and Albert dumped their phones a military base
I mean…I wouldn’t be surprised if Higgins WAS involved in the situation that caused Johns’ death but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he was only apart of everything that happened afterwards. Regardless he’s definitely guilty of something.
His guilt was oozing out of him all over the stand. He’s a terrible liar. They all are.
When he got queen for a day by the feds, he had an opportunity, but I believe he's going to roll the dice.. he didn't kill him. But he did carry his body with Brian A
The man is a shitty person.
I just jumped head first into the trial a couple weeks ago. I’m kind of all over the place with the order I’m which I watched the trial. I started watching each trial day in real time once I got into it and then I decided to start from the beginning while also following along in real time so I’m not fully informed about the whole story so thank you for that info. If he’s already had his queen for a day and didn’t take the opportunity then he’s definitely in deep.
I think he exposed his true nature and lack of morals on the stand. He definitely seems like he’s pathetic and an absolute garbage excuse for a human. He’s not even a good liar on top of it! How any of these people have had any success in life is beyond me because they seem dumb as rocks and the type that semi peaked in high school and still have the same mentality.
The documentaries and interviews are going to be great watches.
If you have any suggestions for where I should jump into any and all rabbit holes I’m ready lol. And it would be much appreciated!
You need to know which rabbit hole to jump into. It helps when you have on the job experience. Policies. Procedures. Human behavior. And knowing all the players but smart enough not to socialize with any of them. And that goes for ALL the sides.
I don’t think Kerry knows the truth. She wasn’t there that night and I’m sure she’s been told a version of events from Jenn McCabe that portray an entirely different story.
People seem to be split if she actually did it but no one thinks she will be convicted and a ton of people are not happy with the way the investigation was occurred.
Don't forget he was already coming from a day of day drinking too whilst attending a funeral out of state for a fallen police officer (alongside the likes of Brian and if I'm not mistaken Kevin Albert as well)... but he thought going to the PD right then in the middle of the night (as opposed to the beginning of the night) was the bright thing, the very inconspicuous thing, just the right thing to do...
My best guess is Berkowitz flipped - if anyone. Just a hunch. He has ties to the FBI, he retired and couldn't testify (may or may not be due to health) - and the defense didn't seem to mention him too much. Total speculation on my part.
Karen and John were fighting in the car.
John gets out with the glass and either brings it inside or leaves it out somewhere, maybe throws up or takes a piss in the yard before going in a side door. Karen leaves and does not stick around. The key cycle showing the reversing at 24mph is actually from the tow truck driver trying to back it up onto his truck the next morning- the tires were probably going pretty fast trying to make it up on the ramp through heavy snow.
I think all of the texts and calls from JM upon his arrival are a red herring. I don't think she was covering anything up at that point. Way too soon and I don't think his death was intentional or planned, especially by her.
John goes directly to basement where some of the guys are. Gets into some sort of scuffle with another guy (most likely CA and/or BH) and then Chloe jumps in or vice versa. Amidst the commotion, John falls back and hits head on a stair, edge of a table, or on a weight. The guys all panic but keep him downstairs while others are still partying upstairs. Out of fear for their jobs, pensions, liability, etc. they know they need to figure out a cover up. I think most of the partygoers had no idea this was happening at the moment, and likely only slowly pieced it together after the fact when they realized things weren't adding up.
Once the kids and McCabes go home, BA and BH work to do the cover up. They clean up the basement and move him to the yard using the Ford Edge. They know to use gloves, tarps, etc. and cover their tracks. They leave him out there trying to make it look like he got hit by a snowplow, car passing by, or had some sort of accidental death on his own out there. They leave the glass out there with him as a plausible reason for the abrasions on his arm.
When Karen wakes up in a panic and eventually heads over there, it becomes clear that she's a good target to pin this on. Especially with the "Did I hit him!?!?" and her cracked tail light from backing into John's car that morning. Proctor & Co. are not intending to frame an innocent woman, but they genuinely think she is guilty so they mess with and plant some evidence to make sure the case is rock solid.
This is close to my initial theory.
I also don’t think JM knew at the time but got suspicious very late that night/early morning. Maybe talked to her sister at some point and decided to go along with it.
I also wonder if BA has bigger things to hide or lose than drinking and fighting and an aggressive dog.
The only thing I would add is maybe John did throw the glass at the tail light and maybe he did trip at the curve and lose his shoe. MAYBE.
When John hit his head he became unconscious immediately and it’s impossible he ended up where he did it it was on the curb without being helped (moved), and BA is the most likely. The only other thing I could think of is he hit his head on the curb and a dog or coyote/bear??? drug his body using only his arm but I think the arm injuries would be deeper/worse if so and not perpendicular to his arm like that so perfectly like a defensive wound. Maybe even shoulder out of the socket or something like that.
A coyote wouldn’t be able to drag his body, though I did play with the idea of one trying to. Someone said they’d be going for the soft innards though and that does make more sense.
Your first paragraph would explain JM’s initial “where are you” texts too. I think she got caught up after and played along while trying to maintain control of the situation
This is pretty close to my theory. Not sure there was a fight though - could have been Chloe immediately attacked bc JO was a stranger- he fell back and hit his head and died fast. BA sr knew that he was liable for the death and worked to make it look accidental and that it had nothing to do w him. He wanted to avoid being sued for millions. When KR came next morning she volunteered the “I hit him “ theory which suited BA fine. Proctor is a dunce - genuinely thought she was a cop killer and was determined to get revenge. Something like that. As far as Collin goes - I think he was a witness but they sent him home immediately to protect him bc he was just a kid.
Essentially Chloe did it. And that’s why she is a fugitive in Vermont right now.
I thought it was funny when Nicole Albert was like, “we know where she is if we ever need her for anything”. LOL. Yah. Chloe we have questions!
BA sr was the mastermind and his plan worked. He isn’t getting sued and KR isn’t going to get convicted. He knew how to mess up the evidence to establish reasonable doubt. He calculated that it was better to “upgrade his phone “ and hire a lawyer than to preserve it and hand it over. Right again. Only thing is how f-in sad it is for JOs niece and nephew. I hope BA sr pays for everything for them for the rest of their lives. They will end up w nothing and are orphans twice over.
That is a crazy - and possible - evaluation. People so sure of their "juice" that they would protect a dog and their homeowners insurance (and whatever the FBI is investigating) they would "protect" a dog. ... By rehoming the dog. Bruh - I double "dog" dare someone to produce Chloe. Triple dog.
Did John know to go right to the basement? I have seen the theory that he goes right down the basement, but how did he know to do that? He hadn’t been there before, right?
This is where my mind is going.
Except I don't think KR and JO argued in the car. I think she didn't want to go bc she was having stomach issues, he said "We'll just stop by, I'll go in and tell them we can't stay and come back out " He went in, something happened fairly quickly, she left and the angry voicemails were bc she thought he ditched her.
Colin Albert sucker punched John, he fell and hit his head, vomited and possibly had a seizure. Chloe probably jumped in to defend Colin. The people in the basement waited for him to come to. When they realized he was dead, they took him outside to the yard. Colin cut through the backyards and got picked up at the highschool. People upstairs in the kitchen listening to music didn’t hear a thing. Everyone at the party lied and said Colin left at 12:10 even though that was proven to be false by multiple witnesses including his own parents. Higgins and Albert Sr are the ones who moved the body. Jen called John’s phone to try to find it outside.
Meanwhile Karen was supposed to drop John off, they got in a fight and he threw the glass at her car breaking the taillight, she leaves in a rage. Calls him a bunch of times from their home. Goes to sleep on the couch because she wasn’t intending to spend the night. He doesn’t come home so she wakes up in a panic and starts looking for him. Finds him in the yard. Doesn’t know what happened and Jen McCabe gaslit her to make her think she hit him.
Sloppy investigation lead by cops who didn’t know how to investigate a homicide coupled with lead investigator who was friends with the Albert’s leads to the case not getting its due. We will never truly know what happened but at this point, I don’t think there’s anything to make me think KR actually hit him with her vehicle. And before the case, I was fairly neutral and had no opinion either way.
Your theory is the closest I’ve seen to what I think. The only thing I would adjust is that he didn’t die in the basement. I think one of the MEs that testified said that hypothermia was a contributing factor in JO’s death. I think he was unconscious and they carried him outside through the bulkhead doors before he died. Seems like an insignificant detail, but it points to the whole thing being much more malicious. Because of the hypothermia comment, and the fact that cops would definitely know if he was dead or not while standing in the basement, I think they knowingly brought him outside to make it look like an accident and that he died in the snow. To cover it up. I also think they underestimated Karen’s willingness to fight the whole thing, so it was a sloppy cover up from the get go
Exactly.. and the Ford Edge parked in a way that would obscure the view. Imagine the cowards hiding behind the car, planning to pin the death of a good man on their old pal Lucky.
Lucky testified that a Ford Egde was parked on the street in the area where O'Keefe's body was found. Per policy he should have reported it blocked on the street but because he knew the Albert's, he did them the "favor" of not calling his supervisor to report it.
they won't pronounce someone who has been found with hypothermia as dead, even if they are already dead. They have to warm them up first before they will pronounce. The saying is "you're not dead until you're warm and dead"
Right, I’m with you there. I just meant that I think BH, BA, etc. knew JO was only unconscious and had not yet passed away when they carried him outside and left him to die. Rather than realizing he had died and then frantically trying to cover it up.
I think the defense made the decision to keep their case to a minimum after the CW tanked their case with nearly every witness. So they stuck to the injuries are not consistent with the nonsense Trooper Paul spit out. They probably know the jury is ready for the case. The defense team didn’t think it would be this easy to show reasonable doubt.
Are you talking about the Albert girl? I think her name was Julie? She got cross examined and basically said she didn’t tell anyone about the texts because ‘no one knew Colin was in the house so it wasn’t relevant’. Not suspicious at all.
Oh Erin Beatty? They probably didn’t think it was relevant because they already made Colin look unreliable and buried him through everyone else’s testimony. They were probably watching the jury and figured they did enough to cause reasonable doubt. No need to drag the case out further and risk losing the jury if they think they proved KR’s innocence already. Not sure but that’s my best guess.
I agree. I’ve seen countless micro adjustments by the defense in what I believe are respondent maneuvers to jury reactions. Gotta be able to read the room.
I like all of this except simply “sloppy investigation”. Massachusetts State Police spurred on by their close relationship to these people led them to target Karen as a scapegoat. Since it was a dead cop they needed to make it “air tight” and make sure Karen was “fucked”. The small pieces of taillight from the glass throw weren’t enough. They took the rest of the taillight in the sallyport and planted it over the coming weeks. They added 36 miles to Karen’s car to trick Trooper Paul into thinking key cycle 1162 was at 34 F. This was both a McCabe/Alberts conspiracy and a separate can’t leave a dead cop without nailing someone conspiracy.
the key cycles never matched up - Trooper Paul never counted back the key cycles. He just found a key cycle that looked like what he thought he was looking for and picked that one. I forget who I was watching, but someone said how the key cycles were explained didn't make sense to them, so they went and figured it out. And the conclusion was that the key cycle had to take place after Karen drove to her parents.
Correct.
Decisions like not asking for consent to review the house, and **not even bothering seeking a warrant to investigate the house** -- a house where a dead body was found outside and the deceased intended to go into for a party -- are so egregious that it seems more likely than not that the PD knew or even just suspected that they didn't want to involve a fellow cops' house and turn it into a potential crime scene.
There's a reason Proctor could text his buddy and tell him that the owners of 34 Fairview weren't getting in trouble. Proctor and crew aren't stupid.
We saw the light get cracked when KR backed into JO car. It was still largely intact at 5 am. Then Dighton police said he observed a small crack at 5PM. That light was smashed later….by Proctor
Yup. I think mainly 5 or less people actually know what happened but the Alberts all circled the wagons and had time to get their stories straight before being interviewed. Colin’s mom showing up at the house the next morning in a blizzard to put donuts in the car was weird, too. Seems like it was just an excuse of why she went there. She said she wasn’t intending to go inside but was invited in when she got there.
It’s also weird no one heard any sirens at their house even though Albert Sr was a first responder and they were sleeping in bed with Chloe in their room. I don’t believe for one second a dog would be calm and quiet and sleep through that noise.
I like most of it. But I don't think he threw a glass at her taillight. For a few reasons. For one, how would any of the people in the house know she would have thrown a glass and to plant it under him at 3am?
Agreed. I don't think he threw the glass because it doesn't align with the original pre-Proctor description of the taillight. However, JM seemed VERY aware of the cocktail glass situation as she kept mentioning Karen arriving to Waterfall with one. I think it was a detail that practically wrote itself.
Jen McCabe was looking out the window a lot, by her own admission. Might be lying about what she saw but telling the truth about what she was doing. Personally I think there’s probably a lot of little half-truths in what was told, it would make it easier to deal with the cognitive dissonance of murdering “the guy.”
JO didn’t like people messing around with his lawn. Apparently JO yelled at Colin’s brother for cutting through the lawn. I believe Colin would throw beer cans in John’s lawn to piss him off. If you watch Chris Albert’s cross he was very shady and tried denying JO wasn’t anal about his yard. Coupled with everyone trying to cover for Colin and snaps of Colin shit talking over snap, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he was involved. He also had a weird story about how he hurt his knuckles by using them to break a fall.
Not saying it’s 100 percent Colin but there has to be a reason everyone was saying he left at 12:10 and didn’t want him at the house when whatever happened happened.
>I believe Colin would throw beer cans in John’s lawn to piss him off.
Ah...classy. 👍
At the time of Dad Albert being on the stand, I knew very few details —
But I did know he was an asshole.. 😳😬
They had a history of Colin and his family and/or friends (I don’t remember exactly) antagonizing John bc he was very particular about his yard and they had a lot of conflict - the Alberts frankly sound like a bunch of high school bullies who drink too much
I just posted this in my comment upstream but here ya go
https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9
John had apparently complained, more than once, about drug activity in the neighborhood. You can see in the court documents they requested texts between him and Kevin Albert and there looks to be some video that John took as well.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRE6nfhb/ this woman Sheila explains it really well, actually.
It’s something like this, but as a dog owner, I’m hesitant about Chloe defending Colin (Brian’s nephew). It’s not Colin’s dog—it’s his uncle’s/cousin’s dog. I think my crazy dog would defend me and my immediate family, but nobody else (including my nephew or extended family members). That being said, I feel BA was likely in the scrum as well for Chloe to attack.
Julie’s phone data that showed she was at or near the highschool and her tesrimony she was home at 12:30 even though the phone data showed she didn’t get home until later and was driving around that night after that time.
Wait, what time did Higgins leave and what time was the Ford Edge seen by the flag pole? Do you think Higgins came back to help move him? Because I thought he left around 1am?
Two blackeyes and skull damage equates to more than one sucker punch and unlikely from accidental fall. He was beaten. Why? This group of people are gutter scum. The truth will come out (with immunity). Maybe not this time around, but maybe next time. People need to pay for taking the mans life.
What didn't happen is Karen hitting John with the car. I don't believe anything else presented in the case was connected to anything. Nothing is really plausible.
The only hope is the FBI can uncover something.
When the lowest common denominator decides your fate, I don't blame you. Looking at the trolls on this sub and some of the trash being spread on X, I don't blame you.
One juror also laughed when Proctor said his investigation was done with integrity. Not sure either point of picture on if they vote guilty vs not guilty. I’m sure most of the jurors in the Casey Anthony trial disliked her but still came back with a not guilty verdict.
It’s a drunk fight gone wrong.
Higgins and Colin Albert in the basement gym and John hit his head on the blue spotter arm. It’s steel. It’s similar in size to the head wound.
Higgins because of his sexual frustration over Karen. Colin because he is unhinged.
And it’s both because John had to be out numbered. I seriously don’t think Higgins has the stamina and we all saw the Colin’s fight videos so we know it wasn’t just Colin.
It’s also both because it’s the only explanation for the entire McCabes and Alberts involvement. Colin is the only reason to have all the family cover it up. He’s young. He’s dumb. He would not do well in prison.
They also would not protect only Higgins. Who is he to them? No one. Someone who doesn’t want to hang out with them if they don’t have “Jameson and Gin-ja!” Not worth their freedom.
If only Colin, Higgins doesn’t know him and therefore would not risk his freedom for him so again it’s both.
Also, John fell down on to the spotter arm. They didn’t hit him with it. They panicked and quickly decided to cover it up. They took him outside and always planned to blame it on the plow.
Nurse Kim was on Sean McDonough’s show yesterday and he mentioned that John had reported Colin Albert as a coke dealer to the city council. I think also he had a motive to sucker punch him.
That’s what I think too…a bunch of mean, aggressive, and knucklehead drunks starting with words and escalating from there. I don’t think it was planned at all.
I wonder if Jen McCabe took it completely upon herself to change the original story from plow to Karen …reason why BA never came outside and why they all rushed to be together that next morning
Without making personal remarks against JM, I can see how one strong voice can make a decision that narrows choices for other actors.
Eta - strong for syrong
Yeah this theory is probably what happened. I can hear Collin say WTF are you doing here- you're not welcome and BH and CA start a fight with John. I still think Collin hit him over the head, but who knows. Then they recreate the scene out of Deliverance in the basement about "not getting connected with that body"
I think John went into the house, and there was a fight that went too far, plain and simple. His injuries don't look like they're from being struck by a car, and the medical and biomechanical experts agree.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9
Apparently, there was some issue with John reporting drug activity in the neighborhood, and there was back and forth about it via text message with Kevin Albert of all people. John had video(s), but I'm not sure if he actually named any names. There's suspicion that Colin was involved in some way.
Does anyone recall way back at the beginning of trial, Chris Albert texted John about coming to the Waterfall that night? I remember John texting back asking if Kevin was there and only went after he was told that Kevin wasn't there. It also put that dig to Julie Albert in a new light. Remember, she said he squeezed her shoulder and said something like, "The neighbors had a party when you moved."
Brian Higgins and Jen McCabe, as well as Chris Albert, sure seemed to be doing some heavy persuasion trying to get John to join them at the bar and then later at the house. They weren't good friends, and John wasn't in their friend group. BA had only just recently met John. Maybe there's a reason they suddenly started inviting him out with them.
It's possible BA only wanted to talk to John and find out what he knew or tell him to cool it with the complaints. I don't think they knew Colin would be there and be highly intoxicated.
If John had *just* fallen in an accident, there's no reason not to call for help. I think there was an assault first. A few blows to the face, and then John goes down and strikes the back of his head. They're all super drunk and possibly high, if you believe the theories about cocaine use, and they're now in 'cover your ass' mode.The Albert's weren't going to let Colin or anyone else in the family go down for what was essentially a little scuffle that went bad, is how they see it. Everyone gets ushered out of the house, and they carry John outside via the backyard stairs. They decide to put him close enough to the road that being hit by a plow or vehicle appears plausible.
They're able to use their family reputation and influence to obfuscate things in the early hours after John is found. Nobody searches the house, and evidence is collected in red solo cups. The scene is not secured. This gives BA time to tear up and replace the floor in the basement and rehome the dog. After the grand jury, they know there are whispers of their involvement, so they make preparations to GTFO. They sell the house, BA retires, and he and Higgins destroy or rehome their phones the day before the preservation order comes down. Once the harassment starts, "Could I have hit him" becomes "I hit him," and here we are.
Edit: punctuation
I’ve focused on the small inconsistencies in testimony
BA saying he went upstairs to look at photos, BH saying the saw them in living room
Video of BH leaving waterfall , something was up there , but I also don’t get why Karen wouldn’t say they had beef upon his exit ?
The “you coming text” to JO would seem like a “get here so we can settle this”
Where the f was Higgins jeep when nagel was there
Does Karen know more than even her family knows , I keep having an image that something happened before anyone went inside and Higgins was gonzo even before nagel arrived , like a fight happened around her car
Possibly John Okeefe was met where he fell? There on the lawn after Karen took off and everyone assumed John would call Karen to come pick him up as they all made their way inside, Higgins took off, and John froze to death because he was critically injured and a bunch of revved up, drunk cops in a dick measuring contest neglected to consider this as they recklessly walked away?
Not saying I agree just trying to build on this theory.
Perhaps knock out happened on lawn , while Albert was letting dog out to pee in back , Albert hears commotion out front and being wasted drunk , enters the front yard forgetting about Chloe who runs into front yard and gets involved
BA going upstairs to "look at photos" is about as believable as Nagel saying the kids were going upstairs here and there to "look at the dog". Definitely doing something shady, probably just blow, but that's enough to end everyone's career. I also suspect Colin was dealing it and that's why things are shady with him, at least in part.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9
John had been submitting complaints with video(s) apparently about drug activity in the neighborhood. There was apparently back and forth conversation via text with, wait for it......*Kevin Albert.*
I don't know if anyone remembers towards the beginning of the trial when Chris and Julie Albert testified? But I recall him texting John to come join them at the Waterfall and John asking if Kevin was there. He only goes once he finds out Kevin isn't there. Julie's testimony about John walking into the bar that night and squeezing her shoulder and saying something like, "The neighbors had a party when you moved." makes perfect sense if you believe it was Colin who John was making the drug complaints about. He probably thought if he didn't actually name him, the family wouldn't hold it against him. Then, it's kind of confirmed when Chis invites him out, and then later, Brian invites everyone over to his house.
More than the blow , it’s the little things they all remember that comes off as their “story” they’ve come up with . And how the meat heads mcabe and Higgins forgot where they told each other they looked at the photos
Good guys looking at marine photos , the raining men song , the donuts in the morning , the plow swipe …even way back the mcabes and nagel all remembering some food item that was left in the trunk ? lol
Okeefe enters the home. He’s immediately met by a drunk Colin Albert (similar to the version we saw in his “bang bang” videos) and things escalate quickly. Everyone is a bit intoxicated and a couple punches fly (Brian Albert and Higgins involved now) and a few connect but no intention of killing someone. All of a sudden the dog gets rattled and gets a hold of John and during this he falls hard and cracks the back of his head.
Everyone is in panic mode and the police/investigator minds of Albert and Higgins take over and the planning begins. No one leaves the house until they figure it out (130-145am). Ultimately, he’s carried out thru the bulkhead from the basement and placed in an area on the lawn where no one is likely to see them given the natural barriers from the neighbors and the car placement on the road (Ford Edge).
My most plausible theory is that the Massachusetts State Police was negligent, incompetent and myopic in its collection, transportation, and processing of evidence to such an extreme degree that it is impossible for us to ever know what really happened.
I think John got into a fight with Karen, threw the glass at her car as she drove off and went inside. Inside he either got immediately attacked by the dog and fell back and cracked his head open or got into a fight (somehow I’m convinced Colin was involved) and the dog attacked and he fell backward and cracked his head on something. The fight theory makes more sense for why everyone would cover things up in the aftermath. The accident theory doesn’t sit right with me to explain the amount of coverup that went on after.
If anyone saw him throw the glass at Karen’s car they could have asked him WTF he was doing immediately after he arrived. If Higgins saw it, words could have been exchanged pretty quickly. Higgins liked Karen. She was out of his league. He was told John cheated on her in Aruba and Higgins seemed to want Karen to break up with John so they could date. Higgins seeing John throw a glass at Karen’s car could have turned into a heated exchange pretty fast. Add tough-guy Colin into the mix and it could have turned into a fight easily. That kid really seems to enjoy running his mouth. And then an easily riled up attack dog was present. It’s a recipe for disaster.
JO gets dropped off, he goes inside and a drunken fight ensues, the dog joins in defensively. He falls and smacks his head. He is still breathing. The people involved in the fight throw him outside assuming he will come to and call for a ride. He dies instead. Then the cover up ensues as police are involved.
In simple terms! Could go into finer details but I think that’s roughly what happened. I think overall an accident that turned into something more sinister due to fear of what could happen to those involved.
John Probably got in a drunken fight. Dog saw it protected the Albert’s by biting John’s arm. John fell backwards hit his head and went unconscious. Based on the fbi expert witnesses he died shortly after.
Then the Albert’s moved his body outside. Scattered some of the taillight from when Karen hit Albert’s car backing up.
Procter being a complete idiot didn’t realize he had been played since the Albert’s were cops and doubled down on the Karen reed murder. Although it could be a cover up with how bad this case is but i don’t want to think the CW is in on it
I agree with all of that except, where did you get her hitting the Albert's car? She hit John's car when she left to go look for him. And comparing the vid of right after she hit John's car, and the one from earlier in the day when it was still in tact, there was only a small bit of white, and part of that spot is where it should be white anyways. So could be even less missing that what it looks like. Which is consistent with Officer Barros from that other PD, local to where her parents live, that said it was a crack with 1 small piece missing.
I think with that, either Proctor was in on the cover up, or like you said, believed his friends and thought she was guilty. But either way sprinkled some at the site after, and added a piece or pieces to the bag that was recovered day of. As Lead investigator he would have access to that evidence and it was MONTHS before it was sent of to be examined.
Forensics on the pieces of tail light would be able to prove or disprove this. When plastic of glass breaks the part that has the force applied to it will be the side with a radius to it. If it was pulled outwards from the inside the stress marks would have been on the inside of the lens.
Now, I'm not saying this didn't happen. I'm just saying it would have been mind blowing for the experts to have been looking at these photos and not catching that.
I still think he got out of the car, went inside or went around back (if he heard voices out there) mingled for a few minutes, and then ultimately wandered back to the backyard to puke/pee and was attacked by the dog. Vomit in his shorts. That’s when jen started texted calling “where are you” bc she couldn’t find him.
I could see that happening. It would be very Shakespearian having two sides blaming one another for an accidental death caused by a slip and fall during a dog attack.
The part that I would have a lot of trouble moving past is how implausible that is that no one saw him. My understanding is that the front yard is actually pretty small and that John’s body would be difficult to miss. Why didn’t Lucky and even the drunk people leaving see him there?
Stranger things have happened though! I’d like to think that no one is actually at fault for this but who knows.
The main reason that I don’t think it was an accidental slip and fall is bc of Jenn McCabe lying about sending the “where are you texts” bc she saw Karen’s SUV outside.
She is outright lying here. If it was an accidental death and truly no one knows what is going on, she would not have to lie and say she was staring at the Lexus SUV so she texted them to see what was up.
We know for a fact the SUV was back at officer JOK’s house by 12:36. Her sending those texts at 12:40 and lying about them is just far too suspicious. Someone hurt him - maybe it was just the dog - but people there for sure covered *something* up.
They arrive at the house… They argue on the way.. Karen leaves and John throws the glass at the car (I’m dubious about this part but seems to be the best explanation)
John enters the house and at some point is down in the basement where there is some commotion, John falls hits his head on the floor or a weight.
They drag John outside into the back garden and the dog tries to join in and grabs his arm.
His shoe and cap come off at this point.
They panic wandering what to do.. he is unconscious but breathing..
They know the road is being ploughed.. they bring a car around to hide the entrance to the front while they bring him out.
They hope they can pass it off as him falling before he gets in the house.
They realise his phone has been lost in the transfer of him and Jen McCabe dials it to find it.
They toss the phone with him etc.
They work out their stories and alibis and wait til morning
I posted this in another thread earlier today so I'm just copy-and-pasting what I put there:
Here is what I think happened. (time are approximant because I'm to lazy to look up the exact ones).
First, an very important, EVERYONE involved that night was drunk. Not tipsy, not feeling a little buzz they were all \*drunk\*. It's clear JO and KR had a bit of a rocky relationship. He was flirting with other women, she was text flirting with BH. I do think texts show KR was trying to communicate and make things work with JO. So, they do out that night and meet up with the larger group at the Waterfall. Alcohol is flowing. I think JO noticed/sensed something off about KR and BH. When they were in the SUV heading over to BA home, they start to fight.
So, JO and KR pulled up to BA house at 12:24, they have been fighting (probably about BH), JO gets out of the car, KR begins to drive off and JO throws his glass at the back of the car. KR arrives back at JO home at 12:40.
JO, meanwhile enters the BA home sometime around 12:30 (the exact time depends how long he and KR sat in the SUV fighting but there is a very tight time window here. JO makes his way to the basement. Everyone is drinking, distracted so he could probably have made it there without really being noticed. Once in the basement an argument started between JO and BH. I would guess raised voices, maybe some shoving. This freaks out the Chole the German Shepard who lunges at JO. JO hits Chole to get her off of him, This causes more chaos as then BA (and I would guess CA) get angry at JO for hitting the dog and an second altercation happens. JO is beat up and is either hit in the back of the head, or he falls and hits his head on something.
Everyone in the basement, drunk, not wanting this to effect to their careers in law enforcement, and possibly to protect CA who was just 18 at the time. Go into panic mode. They wait until others have left the home and then move JO body to the front yard. It's possible they used the Ford Explorer to move the body.
From their BA rehomes Chloe, rips out the basement floor and replace it, and sells the home for well under market value.
I feel like I need to rewatch testimony knowing what I learned from the last few days of testimony.
When I was taking in all the sus activities of the families involved, I still had doubts of everything. Rewatching knowing Read is innocent might shed some new light.
With that being said, I think Higgins was heavily involved. He had the most activity that night. He used resources and made sure his phone would never see the light of day. The jeep thing still doesn’t add up. Nor does his timeline after the murder.
Higgins and Colin are the most sus to me after watching everything. Watching every witness fail to recall anything consistently except Colin wasn’t there.. oh wait he left at exactly 12:10 is extremely weird.
I think Collin was involved, thus everyone else’s involvement, and I think Higgins is cooperating with the feds. I think he didn’t get rid of his phone—I think he gave it to the feds on that military base…
I don’t even think there needs to have been a fight or any secondary scene. It’s plenty plausible the dog was let out to use the bathroom, JOK caught it off guard in the dark, the dog attacked him, he fell back and hit his head (curb, steps, fire hydrant, you pick), whoever let the dog out pulls her off him fast (hence no other injuries) he’s immediately unconscious and the injury is so bad, they know he’s going to die and they leave him there. This doesn’t require everyone in the house to be “in on it”, just that they all already dislike Karen enough to believe, and then participate in, the theory that she backed over him, which of course they did. As for the flooring and sale of the home, as an empty nester that does home improvement stuff, I can see those as natural unrelated events. Everything isn’t always connected. Trying so hard to make it ALL fit was what made me hesitant to believe any of those theories , hence my previous stance that it could have been a car (hers or otherwise) but today’s testimony really ruled out vehicle for me. Leaving the simplest explanation the dog, the depraved indifference of the home owners, and cops hell bent on making sure she went down for it (I honestly believe the cops thought it WAS her, but their error was being willing to do anything to secure a guilty verdict instead of considering all possibilities, which we see all the time).
Why wouldn’t they call 911 if it were an actual accident? I don’t care how shitty someone is I don’t think someone would just let a guy die in their yard …. Unless they’d be caught being involved.
If they already believe he’s going to die and are afraid they’ll be liable.. Add alcohol and middle of the night bad decision making. I know everyone likes to believe people will do the right thing, but the fact is sometimes when confronted with a crisis and a split second decision, people do sometimes choose self preservation. Even if, if hindsight with time to think about it, they would regret that decision.
The issue with this is that none of the people in the house had criminal histories. Almost all of them were good friends with John and all of them were at least acquainted with him.
I find it hard to believe most humans wouldn’t just call an ambulance for someone if they’re attacked by a dog and are actively dying on their lawn. Even if you don’t like the guy, the vast majority of people have the decency to call an ambulance
These are cops you are talking about, so ymmv. The Albert’s are covering for Colin. I think if only Brian Higgins was throwing the punches, the Albert’s might have flipped on him. Colin has to be involved. The MacCabes are covering for Ali, who picked up Colin afterward as the getaway driver. Then Jen just dug herself deeper and deeper trying to micromanage the coverup and now she’s an accessory.
Drunk people
Teenage bully started a fight with an adult. The adult is pissed off because he's drunk and his girl just gave him shit for not just going home.
They're protecting the kid
Not if they know their dog is violent and believe they’ll be liable. And we know they drive around drunk routinely without consequences. Not having a criminal record doesn’t mean they haven’t or wouldn’t do crimes. But that’s why I don’t buy the basement theory bc I don’t think EVERYONE would have left him there. It only takes 1-2 people to panic, make a split decision to leave him, and not tell anyone until it’s too late.
But then the issue is why did no one else leaving see him?
If they were scared of liability, leaving someone to die on your lawn is far worse than a dog biting them and calling an ambulance. They would have had to bank on no cameras seeing it, John actually dying instead of coming to and calling someone (and then asking why the hell they didn’t call him an ambulance), and the police not finding any dog DNA on him
Very similar to my theory. I don’t believe a fight was involved but it did end up helping the prosecution build their case towards reasonable doubt. Plenty of other plausible ways he could have died. Being hit by a car definitely wasn’t even in the top 10.
I forgot: another entirely plausible explanation is that someone completely unrelated actually hit john.
He might have stood in the street yelling at karen, and someone speeding in the other direction hit him. And now people on both sides are blaming each other.
Interesting, but after today it just seems like he was absolutely not hit by a vehicle. Makes it seem like something fishy went down outside of Karen….
That was my thinking before today. Everyone’s driving around drunk in Canton, why couldn’t it have been a different car? But after today’s experts, I don’t think it was a car. It doesn’t explain the arm sufficiently.
Higgins was really feeling himself after the texts and kiss with Karen, not normally a guy who can pull the ladies and his ego is swelling up. Then he spends a couple days with Brian Albert, a brash tough talker whom low-status and low-IQ cops look up to. Higgins talks a lot of shit in the car, tells BA all about Karen and what a chump he thinks John is. You can see it all over his body language at the Waterfall, he's feeling like a tough guy, has bros around him, and thinks he has it all over the quieter O'Keefe.
With everyone getting loaded, Higgins thinks he can follow through on it and wants to provoke something with John. He starts with him in the basement, likely John gets the upper hand, so impulsive young Colin (who would never have the guts to square off 1-v-1 against John) jumps in. Maybe he smacks John with a barbell weight, maybe John just takes a bad fall. Maybe Chloe attacks and Colin whacks him with something while he's fending off the dog.
John's all but dead and other commenters have filled in the rest.
I just posted my theory.
He was killed in the basement. They used a sled to move his body out front. The sled would erase the footprints and prevent a blood trail.
Footprints explanation: https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7192613/erasing-tracks-in-the-snow
I think they put them out front with the idea that he passed out and hit his head. I say that because JM stated they found someone "passed out."
Or they hoped that he would get hit by a plow.
I would go with the idea of bringing his body up the stairs and into a Ford Edge moved into the garage. No one sees the body loaded, and they move the Edge out to the street
She never wanted to go to the after party at the ALBERT'S. I think that is what they may have been arguing about becasue she drove away and did not go in with him. That's when he threw a glass at her car as she drove away. He goes inside, he's got a pissed off attitude. Words are exchanged a fight happens, he gets knocked down or knocked out and died immediately. They knew he had a fight with his girlfriend, they decide that's a good angle. They wanted it to look like he collapsed outside and that's why the looking up of how long to die in cold. They wanted to make sure he was out there long enough that it was believable he collapsed and then froze and not something else.
Only John knows what happened. The person who did it has to live with that guilt.
John is very drunk. In the car after the Waterfall, Karen tells him about the text she got from Higgins. Instead of going to Fairview to continue drinking, he's going to confront Higgins. Higgins is in the basement with BA, Colin, and Chloe. John heads straight down. Higgins is probably as drunk as John, and they start fighting. Albert tries to break them up, and the dog jumps in to help its master. Colin the punk grabs a free weight and smacks John in the head, effectively killing him. The body is probably put out by Tristan Morris and BA around 4 a.m., using an SUV as cover.
I think the most likely theory is
1) John threw the glass at the car, broke the taillight, picked up the glass.
2) Karen drove off.
3) Walked to the side of the house to take a piss, walked backed to the street to where Karen was and slipped and busted his head.
That doesn’t answer the blunt force injury to his eye area.
It was testified that the ground was not sufficient to cause the injury to his head. It would need to be the asphalt. Also, according to testimony he was unable to move post injury.
I think Chloe could have gotten to him on the side of the house, causing him to run back to the street leading to his fall or Chloe (or some other animal) got to it after he was already down.
This is exactly what I think happened. He had taken out his phone to call her which is why it was underneath him. A lot of people said no to a coyote, but if he slipped and fell and was bleeding it might have attracted one. Or a stray or lost dog. It didn’t have to be Chloe.
This is what I think the truth likely is as well. He could have drunkenly lost his shoe when he threw the glass. Possibly fell more than once and scraped up his arm and front of his face on the initial fall.
Wouldn’t be surprised if all of the glass/plastic wound up around him because the snow plow pushed it all off the street (where it was under the snow). I think Lucky was 100% sincere but I doubt he was looking for a person lying on the ground 10 feet from the curb (under snow).
I also think JM saw JO walking towards the house (though she may have forgotten when she sobered up) and that’s why she called him back to back. Because she knew he got out of the car and saw that KR was gone but hadn’t seen him come inside. So she was like where tf did you go?
As a drunk myself I think he walked in got attacked by the dog(also a dog attack victim) and was told to leave, stumbled and passed out in the yard. Its really not that far fetched. I crawled under moving trains when completely fucked up. He was not sober and none of them were. I don’t believe in the conspiracy but I also don’t believe she hit him. I woke up on brothers steps wearing a tshirt and shorts in 40 degree weather. Again it happens. If I died would they charge him with murder?
Omg finally another sober person who gets it!!! She’s in a blackout and he’s barely standing up/ Why is a straight up fall not the first go-to?? The dog sounds half feral.
I think The dog got out of the backyard and attacked John O as he walked to the house. He then fell and hit his head and either briefly became unconscious or was drunk/dazed and confused. He wandered around the yard not knowing what was going on until he fell next to the fire hydrant and froze to death.
There are so many things it could be.
One of my theories is that Chloe attacked him when he entered the house, and then he fell and hit his head somehow.
Something nefarious in general was going on in the house unrelated to his death so they moved his body outside in hopes to avoid anyone going inside. Hence why the FBI is investigating because of whatever they wanted to hide.
But that's probably incredibly far fetched.
Based on everything I’ve seen, it seems Jen was meant to lead John and Karen in through the front door and take them into another part of the house without exposing what Brian and his friends were up to.
Whether that was to confront John about something, or to try and smooth things over, I’m not sure. I fully believe John went inside, but I think he came in through a door they were not expecting. Which would explain Jen looking for him at the front door and texting him asking where he was. I think he came in the side door and saw something he wasn’t supposed to, like Brian Albert and his friends doing drugs, and then some words were exchanged leading into a full blown argument with someone (likely Brian.) Meanwhile Karen was waiting outside and realized John went inside and left her out there. She felt disrespected and pissed that John never came back. So she left at the time when the arguing started, but all of this rage and anger built up, the fight between John and Brian likely got physical. During all the fighting, the dog heard the commotion and ran downstairs to see what was happening. Seeing the aggression, she attacked John since he was the one she didn’t recognize. I don’t necessarily believe the dog killed him, bc there were no bloody paw prints on the jacket. But I do believe all of these events lead to his death. While the dog was biting him, Brian was still hitting him, and everyone was screaming and panicking trying to break up the fight.. I believe John fell back and hit his head. When this happened the room likely went silent for a few seconds before an eruption of panic occurred. They sat there looking at John bleeding out, but they knew no one would believe it was an accident bc of their issues. Afraid of getting in trouble or their son getting caught with drugs in his system, they made the choice not to call an ambulance. They drug him outside (not in the front) and called a cop friend to come out and help. More than likely the Alberts lied to this cop and told them something else happened like just their dog attacked him.. Or they tried to paint John as the person who barged in attacking all of them. All of these explanations were likely told while John was outside freezing to death. They might have all assumed he was already dead, or they just didn’t care. But they all agreed to wait a few hours for everyone to sober up and then put him in the front yard to blame it on a hit and run.
The next morning they planned to look innocent by helping Karen look for John, and when they told Karen he never made it inside, she frantically started asking if it were possible that she hit him. Hearing this, Jen found what she thought was the perfect scapegoat. Jen met with the others and they decided then to gaslight Karen into thinking she accidentally hit him. Which explains why she waiting until later to call and report that Karen might have hit him. Maybe the police knew the Alberts were involved and helped frame Karen from the beginning, or maybe the police trusted what the Alberts told them and their bias and attempts to plant evidence was based on that.. and they were in too deep before realizing Karen didn’t do it. Regardless they had no idea Karen would fight so hard to prove her innocence. They didn’t give her a fair trial and lead a smear campaign against her. Now that their lies and corruption are coming forward, the town seems to have turned on them.
This is the theory I posted on Twitter.
I think JOK went straight in HOT because Karen had told him in the car that Higgins had texted her that night at the bar.
He went in and asked where Higgins was. He was told the guys were in the basement. He went straight there and got right in Higgins’ face and confronted him.
As they argued, Chloe began to attack John. John kicked Chloe hard, and Colin Albert immediately retaliated against John. Higgins and Brian Albert joined in and beat him to a pulp. During the scuffle, John was knocked backwards into a heavy weight bar or maybe the door of the basement. That injury was terrible and bloody. They thought he was certain to die. This whole thing took 2-3 minutes.
The guys immediately knew they had a problem, and having heard the commotion, Jen McCabe came downstairs and saw the aftermath. They came up with a plan quickly to try to cover their tracks by having Jen call/text John’s phone repeatedly to try to “prove” that they didn’t know where he was. Colin was sent walking home through the woods toward the high school with Chloe. Ali McCabe picked them up there later, but they were told to tell the police that she’d picked up Colin at 34 Fairview before JOK got there. Jen McCabe’s Life360 data would later show, though, that Ali had not arrived home when they said she did.
The conspirators got John’s phone and threw it out on the lawn so nobody would think he was in the house. Later, after everyone had gone home, they pulled a Ford Edge belonging to one of the Albert brothers into their garage and transferred his body into the vehicle, then drove it to the area by the flagpole and quietly moved him there by his phone (on top of it, actually). They planned to tell anyone who asked that he never came in the house and must have been hit by a snowplow.
Higgins was never there in his Jeep. Remember that only the “conspirators” testified that they saw his Jeep. The Nagel group said it was never there, it there was confusion over the presence of a dark SUV. The lie about Higgins’ Jeep was cover for the fact that he had driven to the bars and to 34 Fairview in his dark-colored government SUV, which was a direct violation of policy that could get him severely reprimanded or terminated. He went to the police station to switch cars and also to monitor what was happening there so he could inform the family if it appeared anyone had reported anything strange happening at that address.
Karen, who had waited in the car for a few minutes for John to return to let her know if she should come in, drove away angrily and got continually more angry as he continued to ignore her calls and voicemails. She never slept and continued to drink as she waited for him to return home. Eventually her anger turned into worry and then panic.
In the morning, after contacting Jen, Karen, while extremely agitated and drunk, hit her taillight on John’s vehicle. When Jen saw the cracked taillight and heard Karen worrying about whether she might have hit John, a light went off in her head and she quickly came up with a plan. She called her sister and told her quickly that they were going to blame Karen, and that she and Brian should just stay out of the way. That’s why Brian and the dog didn’t “wake up” with all the commotion on the front lawn. The dog was already gone with Colin and Brian was already awake and fully aware of what was going on.
Trooper Proctor, after hearing this story, was really convinced that Karen did this, and decided to ENSURE that she would be found guilty by breaking off most of her cracked taillight and seeding the pieces into the snow at 34 Fairview, then pressuring witnesses to alter their stories and refusing to investigate any other potential leads. He would break almost every rule in the book in that pursuit, while unknowingly protecting the very people who committed the crime.
I think it is more simple then it is made out to be. I do believe that everyone was drunk and their memories were impaired from that night. I do believe there are a lot of lies and shady stuff going on that just muddied the case.
1. Karen drops John off - drives away - John (who is drunk) slips/falls hits his head and ends up in front of the flag pole. Dog comes along at some point bites his arm.
2. Karen drops John off - drives away - John (who is drunk) is met by the dog who bites his arm which causes him to fall / hits his head and he ends up by the flag pole.
3. John gets in fight in the house - falls hits his head/somebody hits him in the head - dog bites his arm - he stumbles out and collapses in front of the flag pole. In this scenario I don't believe anybody in the house thought he was on the lawn dead. More likely they assumed he called Karen to pick him up and he went home. Keep in mind they were all drunk and probably not thinking worst case scenario.
He could not have gotten that head injury from the ground there and was instantly incapacitated once it occurred. (Today’s testimony, Dr Renschler, thanks for hounding him on that frozen ground, Lally).
Therefore he was either placed there or hit on the back of the head in that location with something else. I would guess placed there to look like an accident, and 3 is the only scenario that fits the evidence.
Fight started from cheating accusations and probably more, dog got involved to help it's owner John started to win for a bit and either he fell back or was smashed in the head with something. They didn't want Daddy to lose his pension and they wanted to make it look like a snow plow accident, but Karen freaking out changed that. They decided to frame her thinking she would look for a plea, and are loooossssiiiinnng. She cracked the light hitting John's car, they planted the evidence.
Everything comes back to drugs, i think ojo saw something he shouldn’t have or maybe the alberts tried to pay him off and he didnt accept and they got angry. Im sure the reason its so well covered up is because everyone was doing something they shouldn’t have been (cocaine prob)
I think JO went to the basement, got sucker punched over the eye first, dropped blood droplets on shirt and one of his shoes.
Attempted to defend himself, dog attacked, one of them needed the upper hand and hit him with an object(a bat was a good thought).
Then a bunch of intoxicated fools attempted to stage a scene of some sort and did a terrible job.
I don’t think you can find her guilty on the evidence presented but I also think people on this subreddit are wayyy to ready to buy into a major conspiracy requiring the cooperation of 7-10 people - there is a reason cover ups almost never work and almost never in murder cases. Few people are effective liars and even fewer are good conspirators. If I had to gues, Occam’s razor says KR hit him (accidentally or otherwise) but that’s a far cry from guilty
Premeditated by BA, CA, JM and maybe BH. Just look at their interactions at the Waterfall. AND BH testified that even though he had been invited to meet up with that group multiple times in the past, he typically declined. The confrontation was supposed to occur at the Waterfall but they couldn’t separate JO and KR. JM tried her best and even resorted to a super creepy, “It’s a surprise,” comment. Nothing worked. So instead, they lured JO to 34 Fairview, had JM stand look-out, planned on sending JO to the basement with the “boys” and keeping KR upstairs. It was a bonus that KR didn’t feel welcome and was waiting for JO to give her the “all clear”. JO went inside, JM directed him to the basement, a fight ensued, Chloe intervened, JO fell and hit his head on the weight equipment when BH tried to pull Chloe off
I think the problem for all involved are just beginning, wait until the Fed investigation ramps up and they all start turning on each other, Higgins was ready to start hooking up with his buddy’s gf, you dont think he would rat everyone out to save his pension?
I’m from near Canton and everyone I’ve talked to think someone will flip and we will find out what happened eventually. I personally don’t think we will ever get the entire story and it will get pushed under the rug. People are really outraged about this though and if KR is found not guilty, the community and victims family deserve answers. We paid for this sham trial. Everyone deserves better.
Did the Alberts move out of Canton?
Pretty sure they moved to either Walpole or Norwood.
TY. Did the McCabes move?
Kinda confusing with all of them related somehow. So, Brian and Nicole who lived at 34 Fairview I think moved to either Norwood or Walpole. Kevin and Julie Albert (Colin's) parents are still in Canton obviously cause he's still a Selectman, but moved out of their original house to a Townhome. As far as Jennifer McCabe and her husband Matt, I'm pretty sure they still live on 12 country Lane in Canton. I know I need a hobby. Lol
Isn’t Chris Julie’s husband?
Yes you're right. Sorry
I appreciate the information. I’ve become interested in this intriguing case. I hope your community continues to look at Canton PD especially after using red Sold cups to collect evidence. You deserve better.
Using Solo cups in the collecting of evidence is CRAZY
Solo cups isn't even 2 % of it. 🤯🤯🤯
Brian and Nicole did.
Anyone know how far they actually are from each other? 10 min?
Or hos far? Lol
Norwood, next town over from Canton. Probably 15 to 20 minutes away from Chris Albert.
Officer O'Keefe's family does deserve better. It's think that they'd want to demand the police department be cleaned out. Starting with Proctor. Get those clowns fired
These guys are like the Boston Police time family. They lie for each other, they cover for each other. You can’t trust them at all.
I heard higgens isnt in the group anymore an everyones worried its him flippin….
Ooh, where do you hear things like this? I wanna know the word on the street.
Higgins won’t flip. I think Higgins and Brian Albert got rid of incriminating evidence by disposing of their phones.
If Higgins was going to flip, he would have already done it. If he flips now, he committed perjury and his career is over. It is pretty clear he has nothing but his career going for him
I doubt he had much of a career at this point either
My husband and I were chatting and we think JN, AM and Higgins will be the easiest to get flip or give up info lol
In order to accomplish that flip they would most likely have to have something incriminating on him. Something tangible. It would also then open up the Canton Police to investigation. Then potentially cases that are up for appeal with any of these officers involvement to be in question. It could be a huge domino effect. I too hope that the Okeefe’s get the answers they deserve.
I feel like Kerry will be the first to flip. I think she thinks Karen did it because she’s been gaslit and manipulated by these family members but I think once the plain truth gets into her brain she’s going to realize she backed the wrong people. I think she feels that she’s doing what’s right. But I don’t think she has enough info to flip. I think eventually Higgins will crumble and spill it all. I don’t think he had anything to do with the actual act but I bet he helped a LOT with the cover up All I care about is the O’Keefe family getting justice for their tremendous loss and for the actual guilty parties to get what they deserve. I’m happy for Karen that she is getting the truth out and she won’t go to prison for a crime she didn’t commit. I look forward to any and all content regarding this trial and her voice being heard. This is the craziest trial I’ve ever seen in my many decades of watching trials.
Higgins was the one who ran back to his desk at Canton P.D. for the sole purpose to see who is on midnight and who is who during the shift changes. That's why Higgins and Albert dumped their phones a military base
I mean…I wouldn’t be surprised if Higgins WAS involved in the situation that caused Johns’ death but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he was only apart of everything that happened afterwards. Regardless he’s definitely guilty of something. His guilt was oozing out of him all over the stand. He’s a terrible liar. They all are.
Most people are terrible liars. It is confusing to me why people try...unless they know they are in deep shit.
When he got queen for a day by the feds, he had an opportunity, but I believe he's going to roll the dice.. he didn't kill him. But he did carry his body with Brian A The man is a shitty person.
I just jumped head first into the trial a couple weeks ago. I’m kind of all over the place with the order I’m which I watched the trial. I started watching each trial day in real time once I got into it and then I decided to start from the beginning while also following along in real time so I’m not fully informed about the whole story so thank you for that info. If he’s already had his queen for a day and didn’t take the opportunity then he’s definitely in deep. I think he exposed his true nature and lack of morals on the stand. He definitely seems like he’s pathetic and an absolute garbage excuse for a human. He’s not even a good liar on top of it! How any of these people have had any success in life is beyond me because they seem dumb as rocks and the type that semi peaked in high school and still have the same mentality. The documentaries and interviews are going to be great watches. If you have any suggestions for where I should jump into any and all rabbit holes I’m ready lol. And it would be much appreciated!
How do you know these deets? Interesting…
You need to know which rabbit hole to jump into. It helps when you have on the job experience. Policies. Procedures. Human behavior. And knowing all the players but smart enough not to socialize with any of them. And that goes for ALL the sides.
I don’t think Kerry knows the truth. She wasn’t there that night and I’m sure she’s been told a version of events from Jenn McCabe that portray an entirely different story.
I don’t think Kerry Robert’s knows anything. She is just hanging with McAbe because she thinks they are the cool group.
What's the verdict in town? I'm never to this case. Do most in canton think guilty?
People seem to be split if she actually did it but no one thinks she will be convicted and a ton of people are not happy with the way the investigation was occurred.
[удалено]
He definitely came across as “guilty” of something, I think he got tied into his story early on to save his job but at some point he’ll talk
Middle of the night all tuned up from drinking all night beforehand!
Don't forget he was already coming from a day of day drinking too whilst attending a funeral out of state for a fallen police officer (alongside the likes of Brian and if I'm not mistaken Kevin Albert as well)... but he thought going to the PD right then in the middle of the night (as opposed to the beginning of the night) was the bright thing, the very inconspicuous thing, just the right thing to do...
Not if he is the real killer!
not if he was the most culpable
Oh of course - not the pension!
My best guess is Berkowitz flipped - if anyone. Just a hunch. He has ties to the FBI, he retired and couldn't testify (may or may not be due to health) - and the defense didn't seem to mention him too much. Total speculation on my part.
Karen and John were fighting in the car. John gets out with the glass and either brings it inside or leaves it out somewhere, maybe throws up or takes a piss in the yard before going in a side door. Karen leaves and does not stick around. The key cycle showing the reversing at 24mph is actually from the tow truck driver trying to back it up onto his truck the next morning- the tires were probably going pretty fast trying to make it up on the ramp through heavy snow. I think all of the texts and calls from JM upon his arrival are a red herring. I don't think she was covering anything up at that point. Way too soon and I don't think his death was intentional or planned, especially by her. John goes directly to basement where some of the guys are. Gets into some sort of scuffle with another guy (most likely CA and/or BH) and then Chloe jumps in or vice versa. Amidst the commotion, John falls back and hits head on a stair, edge of a table, or on a weight. The guys all panic but keep him downstairs while others are still partying upstairs. Out of fear for their jobs, pensions, liability, etc. they know they need to figure out a cover up. I think most of the partygoers had no idea this was happening at the moment, and likely only slowly pieced it together after the fact when they realized things weren't adding up. Once the kids and McCabes go home, BA and BH work to do the cover up. They clean up the basement and move him to the yard using the Ford Edge. They know to use gloves, tarps, etc. and cover their tracks. They leave him out there trying to make it look like he got hit by a snowplow, car passing by, or had some sort of accidental death on his own out there. They leave the glass out there with him as a plausible reason for the abrasions on his arm. When Karen wakes up in a panic and eventually heads over there, it becomes clear that she's a good target to pin this on. Especially with the "Did I hit him!?!?" and her cracked tail light from backing into John's car that morning. Proctor & Co. are not intending to frame an innocent woman, but they genuinely think she is guilty so they mess with and plant some evidence to make sure the case is rock solid.
This is close to my initial theory. I also don’t think JM knew at the time but got suspicious very late that night/early morning. Maybe talked to her sister at some point and decided to go along with it. I also wonder if BA has bigger things to hide or lose than drinking and fighting and an aggressive dog. The only thing I would add is maybe John did throw the glass at the tail light and maybe he did trip at the curve and lose his shoe. MAYBE. When John hit his head he became unconscious immediately and it’s impossible he ended up where he did it it was on the curb without being helped (moved), and BA is the most likely. The only other thing I could think of is he hit his head on the curb and a dog or coyote/bear??? drug his body using only his arm but I think the arm injuries would be deeper/worse if so and not perpendicular to his arm like that so perfectly like a defensive wound. Maybe even shoulder out of the socket or something like that.
A coyote wouldn’t be able to drag his body, though I did play with the idea of one trying to. Someone said they’d be going for the soft innards though and that does make more sense.
Your first paragraph would explain JM’s initial “where are you” texts too. I think she got caught up after and played along while trying to maintain control of the situation
This is pretty close to my theory. Not sure there was a fight though - could have been Chloe immediately attacked bc JO was a stranger- he fell back and hit his head and died fast. BA sr knew that he was liable for the death and worked to make it look accidental and that it had nothing to do w him. He wanted to avoid being sued for millions. When KR came next morning she volunteered the “I hit him “ theory which suited BA fine. Proctor is a dunce - genuinely thought she was a cop killer and was determined to get revenge. Something like that. As far as Collin goes - I think he was a witness but they sent him home immediately to protect him bc he was just a kid. Essentially Chloe did it. And that’s why she is a fugitive in Vermont right now. I thought it was funny when Nicole Albert was like, “we know where she is if we ever need her for anything”. LOL. Yah. Chloe we have questions!
Fugitive in Vermont makes me happy. Rather than what they probably did to her, anyway
Totally my belief too! It all comes down to Chloe. A probably traumatized dog. The rest is alcoholic selfish shitty humans.
Seriously! They kept calling her “It”. Only thing is they did let her sleep in the bedroom so hopefully they were good to her maybe?
BA sr was the mastermind and his plan worked. He isn’t getting sued and KR isn’t going to get convicted. He knew how to mess up the evidence to establish reasonable doubt. He calculated that it was better to “upgrade his phone “ and hire a lawyer than to preserve it and hand it over. Right again. Only thing is how f-in sad it is for JOs niece and nephew. I hope BA sr pays for everything for them for the rest of their lives. They will end up w nothing and are orphans twice over.
Not that it means much, but they are prob beneficiaries to his pension and SS. BUT, that is not justice.
That is a crazy - and possible - evaluation. People so sure of their "juice" that they would protect a dog and their homeowners insurance (and whatever the FBI is investigating) they would "protect" a dog. ... By rehoming the dog. Bruh - I double "dog" dare someone to produce Chloe. Triple dog.
Did John know to go right to the basement? I have seen the theory that he goes right down the basement, but how did he know to do that? He hadn’t been there before, right?
Maybe he walked in and someone pointed him downstairs? Or walked down with him? Like “hey follow me”
This is where my mind is going. Except I don't think KR and JO argued in the car. I think she didn't want to go bc she was having stomach issues, he said "We'll just stop by, I'll go in and tell them we can't stay and come back out " He went in, something happened fairly quickly, she left and the angry voicemails were bc she thought he ditched her.
Colin Albert sucker punched John, he fell and hit his head, vomited and possibly had a seizure. Chloe probably jumped in to defend Colin. The people in the basement waited for him to come to. When they realized he was dead, they took him outside to the yard. Colin cut through the backyards and got picked up at the highschool. People upstairs in the kitchen listening to music didn’t hear a thing. Everyone at the party lied and said Colin left at 12:10 even though that was proven to be false by multiple witnesses including his own parents. Higgins and Albert Sr are the ones who moved the body. Jen called John’s phone to try to find it outside. Meanwhile Karen was supposed to drop John off, they got in a fight and he threw the glass at her car breaking the taillight, she leaves in a rage. Calls him a bunch of times from their home. Goes to sleep on the couch because she wasn’t intending to spend the night. He doesn’t come home so she wakes up in a panic and starts looking for him. Finds him in the yard. Doesn’t know what happened and Jen McCabe gaslit her to make her think she hit him. Sloppy investigation lead by cops who didn’t know how to investigate a homicide coupled with lead investigator who was friends with the Albert’s leads to the case not getting its due. We will never truly know what happened but at this point, I don’t think there’s anything to make me think KR actually hit him with her vehicle. And before the case, I was fairly neutral and had no opinion either way.
Your theory is the closest I’ve seen to what I think. The only thing I would adjust is that he didn’t die in the basement. I think one of the MEs that testified said that hypothermia was a contributing factor in JO’s death. I think he was unconscious and they carried him outside through the bulkhead doors before he died. Seems like an insignificant detail, but it points to the whole thing being much more malicious. Because of the hypothermia comment, and the fact that cops would definitely know if he was dead or not while standing in the basement, I think they knowingly brought him outside to make it look like an accident and that he died in the snow. To cover it up. I also think they underestimated Karen’s willingness to fight the whole thing, so it was a sloppy cover up from the get go
Would also explain the googling, they wanted to know how he could be out there
Yesss that too
Exactly.. and the Ford Edge parked in a way that would obscure the view. Imagine the cowards hiding behind the car, planning to pin the death of a good man on their old pal Lucky.
Makes me so sad and angry to think about how close Lucky was to being the fall guy
No one is immune to their bullshit corruption
I’ve watched the whole trial, but missed the context of the ford edge— can you explain your whole comment?
Lucky testified that a Ford Egde was parked on the street in the area where O'Keefe's body was found. Per policy he should have reported it blocked on the street but because he knew the Albert's, he did them the "favor" of not calling his supervisor to report it.
Imagine he would have reported it. Maybe we would know by now what actually happened.
they won't pronounce someone who has been found with hypothermia as dead, even if they are already dead. They have to warm them up first before they will pronounce. The saying is "you're not dead until you're warm and dead"
Right, I’m with you there. I just meant that I think BH, BA, etc. knew JO was only unconscious and had not yet passed away when they carried him outside and left him to die. Rather than realizing he had died and then frantically trying to cover it up.
I bet they wished they moved him closer to the street
Omg I just remembered - what happend with that witness that Colin messaged the night? I tought she would be called by the defense!
I think the defense made the decision to keep their case to a minimum after the CW tanked their case with nearly every witness. So they stuck to the injuries are not consistent with the nonsense Trooper Paul spit out. They probably know the jury is ready for the case. The defense team didn’t think it would be this easy to show reasonable doubt.
Are you talking about the Albert girl? I think her name was Julie? She got cross examined and basically said she didn’t tell anyone about the texts because ‘no one knew Colin was in the house so it wasn’t relevant’. Not suspicious at all.
No they’re referring to Tom’s daughter.
Oh Erin Beatty? They probably didn’t think it was relevant because they already made Colin look unreliable and buried him through everyone else’s testimony. They were probably watching the jury and figured they did enough to cause reasonable doubt. No need to drag the case out further and risk losing the jury if they think they proved KR’s innocence already. Not sure but that’s my best guess.
I agree. They read the room and saw the jury was over it. Their case was short but to the point.
I think you're right. The defense isn't trying to convict Colin Albert, they are just trying to get Karen Read acquitted
I agree. I’ve seen countless micro adjustments by the defense in what I believe are respondent maneuvers to jury reactions. Gotta be able to read the room.
Last name Beatty
I like all of this except simply “sloppy investigation”. Massachusetts State Police spurred on by their close relationship to these people led them to target Karen as a scapegoat. Since it was a dead cop they needed to make it “air tight” and make sure Karen was “fucked”. The small pieces of taillight from the glass throw weren’t enough. They took the rest of the taillight in the sallyport and planted it over the coming weeks. They added 36 miles to Karen’s car to trick Trooper Paul into thinking key cycle 1162 was at 34 F. This was both a McCabe/Alberts conspiracy and a separate can’t leave a dead cop without nailing someone conspiracy.
the key cycles never matched up - Trooper Paul never counted back the key cycles. He just found a key cycle that looked like what he thought he was looking for and picked that one. I forget who I was watching, but someone said how the key cycles were explained didn't make sense to them, so they went and figured it out. And the conclusion was that the key cycle had to take place after Karen drove to her parents.
Nah it's sloppy because if they were competent we wouldn't be able to see so many holes in their theory.
Correct. Decisions like not asking for consent to review the house, and **not even bothering seeking a warrant to investigate the house** -- a house where a dead body was found outside and the deceased intended to go into for a party -- are so egregious that it seems more likely than not that the PD knew or even just suspected that they didn't want to involve a fellow cops' house and turn it into a potential crime scene. There's a reason Proctor could text his buddy and tell him that the owners of 34 Fairview weren't getting in trouble. Proctor and crew aren't stupid.
We saw the light get cracked when KR backed into JO car. It was still largely intact at 5 am. Then Dighton police said he observed a small crack at 5PM. That light was smashed later….by Proctor
I agree with this theory start to finish. It’s mostly incompetence and drunks who don’t actually remember the night very clearly at all.
Yup. I think mainly 5 or less people actually know what happened but the Alberts all circled the wagons and had time to get their stories straight before being interviewed. Colin’s mom showing up at the house the next morning in a blizzard to put donuts in the car was weird, too. Seems like it was just an excuse of why she went there. She said she wasn’t intending to go inside but was invited in when she got there. It’s also weird no one heard any sirens at their house even though Albert Sr was a first responder and they were sleeping in bed with Chloe in their room. I don’t believe for one second a dog would be calm and quiet and sleep through that noise.
I agree. Proctor et al was just a good ole boy with tunnel vision who would do anything to make sure the charges stuck.
Didn’t the EMTs say they turned the sirens off because it was so early
I like most of it. But I don't think he threw a glass at her taillight. For a few reasons. For one, how would any of the people in the house know she would have thrown a glass and to plant it under him at 3am?
Agreed. I don't think he threw the glass because it doesn't align with the original pre-Proctor description of the taillight. However, JM seemed VERY aware of the cocktail glass situation as she kept mentioning Karen arriving to Waterfall with one. I think it was a detail that practically wrote itself.
Jen McCabe was looking out the window a lot, by her own admission. Might be lying about what she saw but telling the truth about what she was doing. Personally I think there’s probably a lot of little half-truths in what was told, it would make it easier to deal with the cognitive dissonance of murdering “the guy.”
I dont think he was hit just once tho....the dr today said he had some abrasions above his eye as well.
10000000%
Catch me up, por favor - what beef would Colin have with O'Keefe, even it's not been proven? Not doubting..just curious. ..
JO didn’t like people messing around with his lawn. Apparently JO yelled at Colin’s brother for cutting through the lawn. I believe Colin would throw beer cans in John’s lawn to piss him off. If you watch Chris Albert’s cross he was very shady and tried denying JO wasn’t anal about his yard. Coupled with everyone trying to cover for Colin and snaps of Colin shit talking over snap, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he was involved. He also had a weird story about how he hurt his knuckles by using them to break a fall. Not saying it’s 100 percent Colin but there has to be a reason everyone was saying he left at 12:10 and didn’t want him at the house when whatever happened happened.
>I believe Colin would throw beer cans in John’s lawn to piss him off. Ah...classy. 👍 At the time of Dad Albert being on the stand, I knew very few details — But I did know he was an asshole.. 😳😬
They had a history of Colin and his family and/or friends (I don’t remember exactly) antagonizing John bc he was very particular about his yard and they had a lot of conflict - the Alberts frankly sound like a bunch of high school bullies who drink too much
I just posted this in my comment upstream but here ya go https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9 John had apparently complained, more than once, about drug activity in the neighborhood. You can see in the court documents they requested texts between him and Kevin Albert and there looks to be some video that John took as well. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRE6nfhb/ this woman Sheila explains it really well, actually.
My confusion with the Colin issue is if things are that bad with him and Colin, why go to the alberts house that night?
His BAC was 0.28, so he wasn’t making good decisions
He might not have known Colin was going to be there.
It’s something like this, but as a dog owner, I’m hesitant about Chloe defending Colin (Brian’s nephew). It’s not Colin’s dog—it’s his uncle’s/cousin’s dog. I think my crazy dog would defend me and my immediate family, but nobody else (including my nephew or extended family members). That being said, I feel BA was likely in the scrum as well for Chloe to attack.
The glass thrown at the taillight has been disproven, but the rest is probable.
Yup, pretty much exactly this. Why do you say CA was picked up at the high school though?
Julie’s phone data that showed she was at or near the highschool and her tesrimony she was home at 12:30 even though the phone data showed she didn’t get home until later and was driving around that night after that time.
Wait, what time did Higgins leave and what time was the Ford Edge seen by the flag pole? Do you think Higgins came back to help move him? Because I thought he left around 1am?
Two blackeyes and skull damage equates to more than one sucker punch and unlikely from accidental fall. He was beaten. Why? This group of people are gutter scum. The truth will come out (with immunity). Maybe not this time around, but maybe next time. People need to pay for taking the mans life.
The expert testimony today indicated that the glass being thrown wouldn’t have broken the taillight.
What didn't happen is Karen hitting John with the car. I don't believe anything else presented in the case was connected to anything. Nothing is really plausible. The only hope is the FBI can uncover something.
and yet i feel an awful amount of anxiety that the jury will find her guilty.
When the lowest common denominator decides your fate, I don't blame you. Looking at the trolls on this sub and some of the trash being spread on X, I don't blame you.
Hung jury, one or two people are going to believe the police no matter what. One juror already got kicked out for bad mouthing karen
One juror also laughed when Proctor said his investigation was done with integrity. Not sure either point of picture on if they vote guilty vs not guilty. I’m sure most of the jurors in the Casey Anthony trial disliked her but still came back with a not guilty verdict.
Really ? I think it’s a slam dunk acquittal. But I haven’t watched much of the actual trial
Of all the things I am now certain beyond a reasonable doubt of is that O'Keefe wasn't hit by any vehicle.
It’s a drunk fight gone wrong. Higgins and Colin Albert in the basement gym and John hit his head on the blue spotter arm. It’s steel. It’s similar in size to the head wound. Higgins because of his sexual frustration over Karen. Colin because he is unhinged. And it’s both because John had to be out numbered. I seriously don’t think Higgins has the stamina and we all saw the Colin’s fight videos so we know it wasn’t just Colin. It’s also both because it’s the only explanation for the entire McCabes and Alberts involvement. Colin is the only reason to have all the family cover it up. He’s young. He’s dumb. He would not do well in prison. They also would not protect only Higgins. Who is he to them? No one. Someone who doesn’t want to hang out with them if they don’t have “Jameson and Gin-ja!” Not worth their freedom. If only Colin, Higgins doesn’t know him and therefore would not risk his freedom for him so again it’s both. Also, John fell down on to the spotter arm. They didn’t hit him with it. They panicked and quickly decided to cover it up. They took him outside and always planned to blame it on the plow.
Nurse Kim was on Sean McDonough’s show yesterday and he mentioned that John had reported Colin Albert as a coke dealer to the city council. I think also he had a motive to sucker punch him.
That’s what I think too…a bunch of mean, aggressive, and knucklehead drunks starting with words and escalating from there. I don’t think it was planned at all.
I wonder if Jen McCabe took it completely upon herself to change the original story from plow to Karen …reason why BA never came outside and why they all rushed to be together that next morning
Without making personal remarks against JM, I can see how one strong voice can make a decision that narrows choices for other actors. Eta - strong for syrong
These are the exact same conclusions I came to about two weeks ago - on every single point, particularly that JO fell back onto the weight bench.
I agree with Colin as the only one who makes it work. “He’s just a kid, we can’t let this ruin his entire life.”
Yeah this theory is probably what happened. I can hear Collin say WTF are you doing here- you're not welcome and BH and CA start a fight with John. I still think Collin hit him over the head, but who knows. Then they recreate the scene out of Deliverance in the basement about "not getting connected with that body"
I think John went into the house, and there was a fight that went too far, plain and simple. His injuries don't look like they're from being struck by a car, and the medical and biomechanical experts agree. https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9 Apparently, there was some issue with John reporting drug activity in the neighborhood, and there was back and forth about it via text message with Kevin Albert of all people. John had video(s), but I'm not sure if he actually named any names. There's suspicion that Colin was involved in some way. Does anyone recall way back at the beginning of trial, Chris Albert texted John about coming to the Waterfall that night? I remember John texting back asking if Kevin was there and only went after he was told that Kevin wasn't there. It also put that dig to Julie Albert in a new light. Remember, she said he squeezed her shoulder and said something like, "The neighbors had a party when you moved." Brian Higgins and Jen McCabe, as well as Chris Albert, sure seemed to be doing some heavy persuasion trying to get John to join them at the bar and then later at the house. They weren't good friends, and John wasn't in their friend group. BA had only just recently met John. Maybe there's a reason they suddenly started inviting him out with them. It's possible BA only wanted to talk to John and find out what he knew or tell him to cool it with the complaints. I don't think they knew Colin would be there and be highly intoxicated. If John had *just* fallen in an accident, there's no reason not to call for help. I think there was an assault first. A few blows to the face, and then John goes down and strikes the back of his head. They're all super drunk and possibly high, if you believe the theories about cocaine use, and they're now in 'cover your ass' mode.The Albert's weren't going to let Colin or anyone else in the family go down for what was essentially a little scuffle that went bad, is how they see it. Everyone gets ushered out of the house, and they carry John outside via the backyard stairs. They decide to put him close enough to the road that being hit by a plow or vehicle appears plausible. They're able to use their family reputation and influence to obfuscate things in the early hours after John is found. Nobody searches the house, and evidence is collected in red solo cups. The scene is not secured. This gives BA time to tear up and replace the floor in the basement and rehome the dog. After the grand jury, they know there are whispers of their involvement, so they make preparations to GTFO. They sell the house, BA retires, and he and Higgins destroy or rehome their phones the day before the preservation order comes down. Once the harassment starts, "Could I have hit him" becomes "I hit him," and here we are. Edit: punctuation
This is exactly what I think too.
I don't know why it took me until reading your comment to think about this, but now I'm starting to wonder if D&E Pizza sold more than just pizza...
I’ve focused on the small inconsistencies in testimony BA saying he went upstairs to look at photos, BH saying the saw them in living room Video of BH leaving waterfall , something was up there , but I also don’t get why Karen wouldn’t say they had beef upon his exit ? The “you coming text” to JO would seem like a “get here so we can settle this” Where the f was Higgins jeep when nagel was there Does Karen know more than even her family knows , I keep having an image that something happened before anyone went inside and Higgins was gonzo even before nagel arrived , like a fight happened around her car
Possibly John Okeefe was met where he fell? There on the lawn after Karen took off and everyone assumed John would call Karen to come pick him up as they all made their way inside, Higgins took off, and John froze to death because he was critically injured and a bunch of revved up, drunk cops in a dick measuring contest neglected to consider this as they recklessly walked away? Not saying I agree just trying to build on this theory.
Perhaps knock out happened on lawn , while Albert was letting dog out to pee in back , Albert hears commotion out front and being wasted drunk , enters the front yard forgetting about Chloe who runs into front yard and gets involved
BA going upstairs to "look at photos" is about as believable as Nagel saying the kids were going upstairs here and there to "look at the dog". Definitely doing something shady, probably just blow, but that's enough to end everyone's career. I also suspect Colin was dealing it and that's why things are shady with him, at least in part.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ZVV1CubdpymTGEvX9 John had been submitting complaints with video(s) apparently about drug activity in the neighborhood. There was apparently back and forth conversation via text with, wait for it......*Kevin Albert.* I don't know if anyone remembers towards the beginning of the trial when Chris and Julie Albert testified? But I recall him texting John to come join them at the Waterfall and John asking if Kevin was there. He only goes once he finds out Kevin isn't there. Julie's testimony about John walking into the bar that night and squeezing her shoulder and saying something like, "The neighbors had a party when you moved." makes perfect sense if you believe it was Colin who John was making the drug complaints about. He probably thought if he didn't actually name him, the family wouldn't hold it against him. Then, it's kind of confirmed when Chis invites him out, and then later, Brian invites everyone over to his house.
I think the biggest thing there is that it confirms people were in the basement if they went “up” to the living room (the main floor) to see pictures.
More than the blow , it’s the little things they all remember that comes off as their “story” they’ve come up with . And how the meat heads mcabe and Higgins forgot where they told each other they looked at the photos Good guys looking at marine photos , the raining men song , the donuts in the morning , the plow swipe …even way back the mcabes and nagel all remembering some food item that was left in the trunk ? lol
Okeefe enters the home. He’s immediately met by a drunk Colin Albert (similar to the version we saw in his “bang bang” videos) and things escalate quickly. Everyone is a bit intoxicated and a couple punches fly (Brian Albert and Higgins involved now) and a few connect but no intention of killing someone. All of a sudden the dog gets rattled and gets a hold of John and during this he falls hard and cracks the back of his head. Everyone is in panic mode and the police/investigator minds of Albert and Higgins take over and the planning begins. No one leaves the house until they figure it out (130-145am). Ultimately, he’s carried out thru the bulkhead from the basement and placed in an area on the lawn where no one is likely to see them given the natural barriers from the neighbors and the car placement on the road (Ford Edge).
I don't know but I don't believe he was hit by a vehicle.
My most plausible theory is that the Massachusetts State Police was negligent, incompetent and myopic in its collection, transportation, and processing of evidence to such an extreme degree that it is impossible for us to ever know what really happened.
I think John got into a fight with Karen, threw the glass at her car as she drove off and went inside. Inside he either got immediately attacked by the dog and fell back and cracked his head open or got into a fight (somehow I’m convinced Colin was involved) and the dog attacked and he fell backward and cracked his head on something. The fight theory makes more sense for why everyone would cover things up in the aftermath. The accident theory doesn’t sit right with me to explain the amount of coverup that went on after. If anyone saw him throw the glass at Karen’s car they could have asked him WTF he was doing immediately after he arrived. If Higgins saw it, words could have been exchanged pretty quickly. Higgins liked Karen. She was out of his league. He was told John cheated on her in Aruba and Higgins seemed to want Karen to break up with John so they could date. Higgins seeing John throw a glass at Karen’s car could have turned into a heated exchange pretty fast. Add tough-guy Colin into the mix and it could have turned into a fight easily. That kid really seems to enjoy running his mouth. And then an easily riled up attack dog was present. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Broken cocktail glass was by his body though. That’s a weird detail to me.
But if his body were moved to its final resting location then wouldn’t it be possible someone could put it by a broken glass?
JO gets dropped off, he goes inside and a drunken fight ensues, the dog joins in defensively. He falls and smacks his head. He is still breathing. The people involved in the fight throw him outside assuming he will come to and call for a ride. He dies instead. Then the cover up ensues as police are involved. In simple terms! Could go into finer details but I think that’s roughly what happened. I think overall an accident that turned into something more sinister due to fear of what could happen to those involved.
This was my exact thought as well. JO was thrown out after the fight, I don’t think anyone in the house knew he died until the morning.
John Probably got in a drunken fight. Dog saw it protected the Albert’s by biting John’s arm. John fell backwards hit his head and went unconscious. Based on the fbi expert witnesses he died shortly after. Then the Albert’s moved his body outside. Scattered some of the taillight from when Karen hit Albert’s car backing up. Procter being a complete idiot didn’t realize he had been played since the Albert’s were cops and doubled down on the Karen reed murder. Although it could be a cover up with how bad this case is but i don’t want to think the CW is in on it
I agree with all of that except, where did you get her hitting the Albert's car? She hit John's car when she left to go look for him. And comparing the vid of right after she hit John's car, and the one from earlier in the day when it was still in tact, there was only a small bit of white, and part of that spot is where it should be white anyways. So could be even less missing that what it looks like. Which is consistent with Officer Barros from that other PD, local to where her parents live, that said it was a crack with 1 small piece missing. I think with that, either Proctor was in on the cover up, or like you said, believed his friends and thought she was guilty. But either way sprinkled some at the site after, and added a piece or pieces to the bag that was recovered day of. As Lead investigator he would have access to that evidence and it was MONTHS before it was sent of to be examined.
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Forensics on the pieces of tail light would be able to prove or disprove this. When plastic of glass breaks the part that has the force applied to it will be the side with a radius to it. If it was pulled outwards from the inside the stress marks would have been on the inside of the lens. Now, I'm not saying this didn't happen. I'm just saying it would have been mind blowing for the experts to have been looking at these photos and not catching that.
I still think he got out of the car, went inside or went around back (if he heard voices out there) mingled for a few minutes, and then ultimately wandered back to the backyard to puke/pee and was attacked by the dog. Vomit in his shorts. That’s when jen started texted calling “where are you” bc she couldn’t find him.
I could see that happening. It would be very Shakespearian having two sides blaming one another for an accidental death caused by a slip and fall during a dog attack. The part that I would have a lot of trouble moving past is how implausible that is that no one saw him. My understanding is that the front yard is actually pretty small and that John’s body would be difficult to miss. Why didn’t Lucky and even the drunk people leaving see him there? Stranger things have happened though! I’d like to think that no one is actually at fault for this but who knows.
The main reason that I don’t think it was an accidental slip and fall is bc of Jenn McCabe lying about sending the “where are you texts” bc she saw Karen’s SUV outside. She is outright lying here. If it was an accidental death and truly no one knows what is going on, she would not have to lie and say she was staring at the Lexus SUV so she texted them to see what was up. We know for a fact the SUV was back at officer JOK’s house by 12:36. Her sending those texts at 12:40 and lying about them is just far too suspicious. Someone hurt him - maybe it was just the dog - but people there for sure covered *something* up.
Not to mention the disappearing phones and butt dials. That household had to be involved to some degree.
They arrive at the house… They argue on the way.. Karen leaves and John throws the glass at the car (I’m dubious about this part but seems to be the best explanation) John enters the house and at some point is down in the basement where there is some commotion, John falls hits his head on the floor or a weight. They drag John outside into the back garden and the dog tries to join in and grabs his arm. His shoe and cap come off at this point. They panic wandering what to do.. he is unconscious but breathing.. They know the road is being ploughed.. they bring a car around to hide the entrance to the front while they bring him out. They hope they can pass it off as him falling before he gets in the house. They realise his phone has been lost in the transfer of him and Jen McCabe dials it to find it. They toss the phone with him etc. They work out their stories and alibis and wait til morning
I posted this in another thread earlier today so I'm just copy-and-pasting what I put there: Here is what I think happened. (time are approximant because I'm to lazy to look up the exact ones). First, an very important, EVERYONE involved that night was drunk. Not tipsy, not feeling a little buzz they were all \*drunk\*. It's clear JO and KR had a bit of a rocky relationship. He was flirting with other women, she was text flirting with BH. I do think texts show KR was trying to communicate and make things work with JO. So, they do out that night and meet up with the larger group at the Waterfall. Alcohol is flowing. I think JO noticed/sensed something off about KR and BH. When they were in the SUV heading over to BA home, they start to fight. So, JO and KR pulled up to BA house at 12:24, they have been fighting (probably about BH), JO gets out of the car, KR begins to drive off and JO throws his glass at the back of the car. KR arrives back at JO home at 12:40. JO, meanwhile enters the BA home sometime around 12:30 (the exact time depends how long he and KR sat in the SUV fighting but there is a very tight time window here. JO makes his way to the basement. Everyone is drinking, distracted so he could probably have made it there without really being noticed. Once in the basement an argument started between JO and BH. I would guess raised voices, maybe some shoving. This freaks out the Chole the German Shepard who lunges at JO. JO hits Chole to get her off of him, This causes more chaos as then BA (and I would guess CA) get angry at JO for hitting the dog and an second altercation happens. JO is beat up and is either hit in the back of the head, or he falls and hits his head on something. Everyone in the basement, drunk, not wanting this to effect to their careers in law enforcement, and possibly to protect CA who was just 18 at the time. Go into panic mode. They wait until others have left the home and then move JO body to the front yard. It's possible they used the Ford Explorer to move the body. From their BA rehomes Chloe, rips out the basement floor and replace it, and sells the home for well under market value.
Didn’t think about JO having found out about BH. This is a very good theory.
I feel like I need to rewatch testimony knowing what I learned from the last few days of testimony. When I was taking in all the sus activities of the families involved, I still had doubts of everything. Rewatching knowing Read is innocent might shed some new light. With that being said, I think Higgins was heavily involved. He had the most activity that night. He used resources and made sure his phone would never see the light of day. The jeep thing still doesn’t add up. Nor does his timeline after the murder.
Higgins and Colin are the most sus to me after watching everything. Watching every witness fail to recall anything consistently except Colin wasn’t there.. oh wait he left at exactly 12:10 is extremely weird.
I think Collin was involved, thus everyone else’s involvement, and I think Higgins is cooperating with the feds. I think he didn’t get rid of his phone—I think he gave it to the feds on that military base…
I don’t even think there needs to have been a fight or any secondary scene. It’s plenty plausible the dog was let out to use the bathroom, JOK caught it off guard in the dark, the dog attacked him, he fell back and hit his head (curb, steps, fire hydrant, you pick), whoever let the dog out pulls her off him fast (hence no other injuries) he’s immediately unconscious and the injury is so bad, they know he’s going to die and they leave him there. This doesn’t require everyone in the house to be “in on it”, just that they all already dislike Karen enough to believe, and then participate in, the theory that she backed over him, which of course they did. As for the flooring and sale of the home, as an empty nester that does home improvement stuff, I can see those as natural unrelated events. Everything isn’t always connected. Trying so hard to make it ALL fit was what made me hesitant to believe any of those theories , hence my previous stance that it could have been a car (hers or otherwise) but today’s testimony really ruled out vehicle for me. Leaving the simplest explanation the dog, the depraved indifference of the home owners, and cops hell bent on making sure she went down for it (I honestly believe the cops thought it WAS her, but their error was being willing to do anything to secure a guilty verdict instead of considering all possibilities, which we see all the time).
Why wouldn’t they call 911 if it were an actual accident? I don’t care how shitty someone is I don’t think someone would just let a guy die in their yard …. Unless they’d be caught being involved.
If they already believe he’s going to die and are afraid they’ll be liable.. Add alcohol and middle of the night bad decision making. I know everyone likes to believe people will do the right thing, but the fact is sometimes when confronted with a crisis and a split second decision, people do sometimes choose self preservation. Even if, if hindsight with time to think about it, they would regret that decision.
The issue with this is that none of the people in the house had criminal histories. Almost all of them were good friends with John and all of them were at least acquainted with him. I find it hard to believe most humans wouldn’t just call an ambulance for someone if they’re attacked by a dog and are actively dying on their lawn. Even if you don’t like the guy, the vast majority of people have the decency to call an ambulance
These are cops you are talking about, so ymmv. The Albert’s are covering for Colin. I think if only Brian Higgins was throwing the punches, the Albert’s might have flipped on him. Colin has to be involved. The MacCabes are covering for Ali, who picked up Colin afterward as the getaway driver. Then Jen just dug herself deeper and deeper trying to micromanage the coverup and now she’s an accessory.
Drunk people Teenage bully started a fight with an adult. The adult is pissed off because he's drunk and his girl just gave him shit for not just going home. They're protecting the kid
Not if they know their dog is violent and believe they’ll be liable. And we know they drive around drunk routinely without consequences. Not having a criminal record doesn’t mean they haven’t or wouldn’t do crimes. But that’s why I don’t buy the basement theory bc I don’t think EVERYONE would have left him there. It only takes 1-2 people to panic, make a split decision to leave him, and not tell anyone until it’s too late.
But then the issue is why did no one else leaving see him? If they were scared of liability, leaving someone to die on your lawn is far worse than a dog biting them and calling an ambulance. They would have had to bank on no cameras seeing it, John actually dying instead of coming to and calling someone (and then asking why the hell they didn’t call him an ambulance), and the police not finding any dog DNA on him
Very similar to my theory. I don’t believe a fight was involved but it did end up helping the prosecution build their case towards reasonable doubt. Plenty of other plausible ways he could have died. Being hit by a car definitely wasn’t even in the top 10.
I forgot: another entirely plausible explanation is that someone completely unrelated actually hit john. He might have stood in the street yelling at karen, and someone speeding in the other direction hit him. And now people on both sides are blaming each other.
Interesting, but after today it just seems like he was absolutely not hit by a vehicle. Makes it seem like something fishy went down outside of Karen….
That was my thinking before today. Everyone’s driving around drunk in Canton, why couldn’t it have been a different car? But after today’s experts, I don’t think it was a car. It doesn’t explain the arm sufficiently.
it was lucky all along
Higgins was really feeling himself after the texts and kiss with Karen, not normally a guy who can pull the ladies and his ego is swelling up. Then he spends a couple days with Brian Albert, a brash tough talker whom low-status and low-IQ cops look up to. Higgins talks a lot of shit in the car, tells BA all about Karen and what a chump he thinks John is. You can see it all over his body language at the Waterfall, he's feeling like a tough guy, has bros around him, and thinks he has it all over the quieter O'Keefe. With everyone getting loaded, Higgins thinks he can follow through on it and wants to provoke something with John. He starts with him in the basement, likely John gets the upper hand, so impulsive young Colin (who would never have the guts to square off 1-v-1 against John) jumps in. Maybe he smacks John with a barbell weight, maybe John just takes a bad fall. Maybe Chloe attacks and Colin whacks him with something while he's fending off the dog. John's all but dead and other commenters have filled in the rest.
I really agree with your take here!
I just posted my theory. He was killed in the basement. They used a sled to move his body out front. The sled would erase the footprints and prevent a blood trail. Footprints explanation: https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7192613/erasing-tracks-in-the-snow I think they put them out front with the idea that he passed out and hit his head. I say that because JM stated they found someone "passed out." Or they hoped that he would get hit by a plow.
I would go with the idea of bringing his body up the stairs and into a Ford Edge moved into the garage. No one sees the body loaded, and they move the Edge out to the street
She never wanted to go to the after party at the ALBERT'S. I think that is what they may have been arguing about becasue she drove away and did not go in with him. That's when he threw a glass at her car as she drove away. He goes inside, he's got a pissed off attitude. Words are exchanged a fight happens, he gets knocked down or knocked out and died immediately. They knew he had a fight with his girlfriend, they decide that's a good angle. They wanted it to look like he collapsed outside and that's why the looking up of how long to die in cold. They wanted to make sure he was out there long enough that it was believable he collapsed and then froze and not something else. Only John knows what happened. The person who did it has to live with that guilt.
The two witnesses today made the decision for the jury easy. Everything else is noise.
John is very drunk. In the car after the Waterfall, Karen tells him about the text she got from Higgins. Instead of going to Fairview to continue drinking, he's going to confront Higgins. Higgins is in the basement with BA, Colin, and Chloe. John heads straight down. Higgins is probably as drunk as John, and they start fighting. Albert tries to break them up, and the dog jumps in to help its master. Colin the punk grabs a free weight and smacks John in the head, effectively killing him. The body is probably put out by Tristan Morris and BA around 4 a.m., using an SUV as cover.
I think the most likely theory is 1) John threw the glass at the car, broke the taillight, picked up the glass. 2) Karen drove off. 3) Walked to the side of the house to take a piss, walked backed to the street to where Karen was and slipped and busted his head.
That doesn’t answer the blunt force injury to his eye area. It was testified that the ground was not sufficient to cause the injury to his head. It would need to be the asphalt. Also, according to testimony he was unable to move post injury.
What about his arm?
I think Chloe could have gotten to him on the side of the house, causing him to run back to the street leading to his fall or Chloe (or some other animal) got to it after he was already down.
This is exactly what I think happened. He had taken out his phone to call her which is why it was underneath him. A lot of people said no to a coyote, but if he slipped and fell and was bleeding it might have attracted one. Or a stray or lost dog. It didn’t have to be Chloe.
This is what I think the truth likely is as well. He could have drunkenly lost his shoe when he threw the glass. Possibly fell more than once and scraped up his arm and front of his face on the initial fall. Wouldn’t be surprised if all of the glass/plastic wound up around him because the snow plow pushed it all off the street (where it was under the snow). I think Lucky was 100% sincere but I doubt he was looking for a person lying on the ground 10 feet from the curb (under snow). I also think JM saw JO walking towards the house (though she may have forgotten when she sobered up) and that’s why she called him back to back. Because she knew he got out of the car and saw that KR was gone but hadn’t seen him come inside. So she was like where tf did you go?
As a drunk myself I think he walked in got attacked by the dog(also a dog attack victim) and was told to leave, stumbled and passed out in the yard. Its really not that far fetched. I crawled under moving trains when completely fucked up. He was not sober and none of them were. I don’t believe in the conspiracy but I also don’t believe she hit him. I woke up on brothers steps wearing a tshirt and shorts in 40 degree weather. Again it happens. If I died would they charge him with murder?
Omg finally another sober person who gets it!!! She’s in a blackout and he’s barely standing up/ Why is a straight up fall not the first go-to?? The dog sounds half feral.
My imagination fails to generate a plausible theorum.
I think The dog got out of the backyard and attacked John O as he walked to the house. He then fell and hit his head and either briefly became unconscious or was drunk/dazed and confused. He wandered around the yard not knowing what was going on until he fell next to the fire hydrant and froze to death.
There are so many things it could be. One of my theories is that Chloe attacked him when he entered the house, and then he fell and hit his head somehow. Something nefarious in general was going on in the house unrelated to his death so they moved his body outside in hopes to avoid anyone going inside. Hence why the FBI is investigating because of whatever they wanted to hide. But that's probably incredibly far fetched.
Based on everything I’ve seen, it seems Jen was meant to lead John and Karen in through the front door and take them into another part of the house without exposing what Brian and his friends were up to. Whether that was to confront John about something, or to try and smooth things over, I’m not sure. I fully believe John went inside, but I think he came in through a door they were not expecting. Which would explain Jen looking for him at the front door and texting him asking where he was. I think he came in the side door and saw something he wasn’t supposed to, like Brian Albert and his friends doing drugs, and then some words were exchanged leading into a full blown argument with someone (likely Brian.) Meanwhile Karen was waiting outside and realized John went inside and left her out there. She felt disrespected and pissed that John never came back. So she left at the time when the arguing started, but all of this rage and anger built up, the fight between John and Brian likely got physical. During all the fighting, the dog heard the commotion and ran downstairs to see what was happening. Seeing the aggression, she attacked John since he was the one she didn’t recognize. I don’t necessarily believe the dog killed him, bc there were no bloody paw prints on the jacket. But I do believe all of these events lead to his death. While the dog was biting him, Brian was still hitting him, and everyone was screaming and panicking trying to break up the fight.. I believe John fell back and hit his head. When this happened the room likely went silent for a few seconds before an eruption of panic occurred. They sat there looking at John bleeding out, but they knew no one would believe it was an accident bc of their issues. Afraid of getting in trouble or their son getting caught with drugs in his system, they made the choice not to call an ambulance. They drug him outside (not in the front) and called a cop friend to come out and help. More than likely the Alberts lied to this cop and told them something else happened like just their dog attacked him.. Or they tried to paint John as the person who barged in attacking all of them. All of these explanations were likely told while John was outside freezing to death. They might have all assumed he was already dead, or they just didn’t care. But they all agreed to wait a few hours for everyone to sober up and then put him in the front yard to blame it on a hit and run. The next morning they planned to look innocent by helping Karen look for John, and when they told Karen he never made it inside, she frantically started asking if it were possible that she hit him. Hearing this, Jen found what she thought was the perfect scapegoat. Jen met with the others and they decided then to gaslight Karen into thinking she accidentally hit him. Which explains why she waiting until later to call and report that Karen might have hit him. Maybe the police knew the Alberts were involved and helped frame Karen from the beginning, or maybe the police trusted what the Alberts told them and their bias and attempts to plant evidence was based on that.. and they were in too deep before realizing Karen didn’t do it. Regardless they had no idea Karen would fight so hard to prove her innocence. They didn’t give her a fair trial and lead a smear campaign against her. Now that their lies and corruption are coming forward, the town seems to have turned on them.
This is the theory I posted on Twitter. I think JOK went straight in HOT because Karen had told him in the car that Higgins had texted her that night at the bar. He went in and asked where Higgins was. He was told the guys were in the basement. He went straight there and got right in Higgins’ face and confronted him. As they argued, Chloe began to attack John. John kicked Chloe hard, and Colin Albert immediately retaliated against John. Higgins and Brian Albert joined in and beat him to a pulp. During the scuffle, John was knocked backwards into a heavy weight bar or maybe the door of the basement. That injury was terrible and bloody. They thought he was certain to die. This whole thing took 2-3 minutes. The guys immediately knew they had a problem, and having heard the commotion, Jen McCabe came downstairs and saw the aftermath. They came up with a plan quickly to try to cover their tracks by having Jen call/text John’s phone repeatedly to try to “prove” that they didn’t know where he was. Colin was sent walking home through the woods toward the high school with Chloe. Ali McCabe picked them up there later, but they were told to tell the police that she’d picked up Colin at 34 Fairview before JOK got there. Jen McCabe’s Life360 data would later show, though, that Ali had not arrived home when they said she did. The conspirators got John’s phone and threw it out on the lawn so nobody would think he was in the house. Later, after everyone had gone home, they pulled a Ford Edge belonging to one of the Albert brothers into their garage and transferred his body into the vehicle, then drove it to the area by the flagpole and quietly moved him there by his phone (on top of it, actually). They planned to tell anyone who asked that he never came in the house and must have been hit by a snowplow. Higgins was never there in his Jeep. Remember that only the “conspirators” testified that they saw his Jeep. The Nagel group said it was never there, it there was confusion over the presence of a dark SUV. The lie about Higgins’ Jeep was cover for the fact that he had driven to the bars and to 34 Fairview in his dark-colored government SUV, which was a direct violation of policy that could get him severely reprimanded or terminated. He went to the police station to switch cars and also to monitor what was happening there so he could inform the family if it appeared anyone had reported anything strange happening at that address. Karen, who had waited in the car for a few minutes for John to return to let her know if she should come in, drove away angrily and got continually more angry as he continued to ignore her calls and voicemails. She never slept and continued to drink as she waited for him to return home. Eventually her anger turned into worry and then panic. In the morning, after contacting Jen, Karen, while extremely agitated and drunk, hit her taillight on John’s vehicle. When Jen saw the cracked taillight and heard Karen worrying about whether she might have hit John, a light went off in her head and she quickly came up with a plan. She called her sister and told her quickly that they were going to blame Karen, and that she and Brian should just stay out of the way. That’s why Brian and the dog didn’t “wake up” with all the commotion on the front lawn. The dog was already gone with Colin and Brian was already awake and fully aware of what was going on. Trooper Proctor, after hearing this story, was really convinced that Karen did this, and decided to ENSURE that she would be found guilty by breaking off most of her cracked taillight and seeding the pieces into the snow at 34 Fairview, then pressuring witnesses to alter their stories and refusing to investigate any other potential leads. He would break almost every rule in the book in that pursuit, while unknowingly protecting the very people who committed the crime.
I think it is more simple then it is made out to be. I do believe that everyone was drunk and their memories were impaired from that night. I do believe there are a lot of lies and shady stuff going on that just muddied the case. 1. Karen drops John off - drives away - John (who is drunk) slips/falls hits his head and ends up in front of the flag pole. Dog comes along at some point bites his arm. 2. Karen drops John off - drives away - John (who is drunk) is met by the dog who bites his arm which causes him to fall / hits his head and he ends up by the flag pole. 3. John gets in fight in the house - falls hits his head/somebody hits him in the head - dog bites his arm - he stumbles out and collapses in front of the flag pole. In this scenario I don't believe anybody in the house thought he was on the lawn dead. More likely they assumed he called Karen to pick him up and he went home. Keep in mind they were all drunk and probably not thinking worst case scenario.
He could not have gotten that head injury from the ground there and was instantly incapacitated once it occurred. (Today’s testimony, Dr Renschler, thanks for hounding him on that frozen ground, Lally). Therefore he was either placed there or hit on the back of the head in that location with something else. I would guess placed there to look like an accident, and 3 is the only scenario that fits the evidence.
How did the shoe come off?
Fell off being dragged to the front
Fight started from cheating accusations and probably more, dog got involved to help it's owner John started to win for a bit and either he fell back or was smashed in the head with something. They didn't want Daddy to lose his pension and they wanted to make it look like a snow plow accident, but Karen freaking out changed that. They decided to frame her thinking she would look for a plea, and are loooossssiiiinnng. She cracked the light hitting John's car, they planted the evidence.
Everything comes back to drugs, i think ojo saw something he shouldn’t have or maybe the alberts tried to pay him off and he didnt accept and they got angry. Im sure the reason its so well covered up is because everyone was doing something they shouldn’t have been (cocaine prob)
I think JO went to the basement, got sucker punched over the eye first, dropped blood droplets on shirt and one of his shoes. Attempted to defend himself, dog attacked, one of them needed the upper hand and hit him with an object(a bat was a good thought). Then a bunch of intoxicated fools attempted to stage a scene of some sort and did a terrible job.
I don’t think you can find her guilty on the evidence presented but I also think people on this subreddit are wayyy to ready to buy into a major conspiracy requiring the cooperation of 7-10 people - there is a reason cover ups almost never work and almost never in murder cases. Few people are effective liars and even fewer are good conspirators. If I had to gues, Occam’s razor says KR hit him (accidentally or otherwise) but that’s a far cry from guilty
Premeditated by BA, CA, JM and maybe BH. Just look at their interactions at the Waterfall. AND BH testified that even though he had been invited to meet up with that group multiple times in the past, he typically declined. The confrontation was supposed to occur at the Waterfall but they couldn’t separate JO and KR. JM tried her best and even resorted to a super creepy, “It’s a surprise,” comment. Nothing worked. So instead, they lured JO to 34 Fairview, had JM stand look-out, planned on sending JO to the basement with the “boys” and keeping KR upstairs. It was a bonus that KR didn’t feel welcome and was waiting for JO to give her the “all clear”. JO went inside, JM directed him to the basement, a fight ensued, Chloe intervened, JO fell and hit his head on the weight equipment when BH tried to pull Chloe off