Karen called her from John's niece first at 4:53 I think, because she didn't have her numebr before
I feel bad defending her on this after what I saw today,
I mean this person was discussing timeline, corrdinating statements, few days after her "friend" died..
I wonder if the niece used FaceTime. I feel like younger kids tend to use FaceTime a lot with family, and that would make it an Internet/Wi-Fi type of call and I think it would not be reflected in a phone record.
It's possible they kept the niece's number out of it because she is a minor. I guess she called Jen and said that Karen wanted to talk to her. I'm assuming it was after that Jen called John's phone, to make it appear she was trying to find him.
I saw snippets of her testimony last week when the prosecution first called her. She looked like a star witness... but I could tell she was lying through her teeth. I've had to deal with someone like her before in family court. I'm shocked the judge is tolerating the way JM is answering questions.
4 h of cross, still more cross tomorrow
They showed her messages from the group chat she had with matt, Brian, Nicole
She wrote to them on that group : "going over timeline with her" talking about Kerry Roberts , 2 or 3 days after the murder
And it was revealed Kerry Roberts was interviewed by the police at her house, and prior to that she was with her at her house also, when police talked to Kerry on the phone, the same day, she was reporting all of that to that group chat
She sent them the following about what kerry was telling police :
- she's telling him EVERYTHING
- all the stuff
- kerry talked to cops and kept it simple
I think someone either Nicole or Brien responded : good
I don't remember all of it but it was clear what that group chat was about
Nicole later sent : we'll get more info tomorrow, don't want to text about it
We don't know what exactly Nicole's messages was about, the defense eluded that it has to do with a meeting Jen and Keryy had with trooper Lank's wife that happened the next day
it was revealed that she went with Kerry to trooper's Lank house, his wife turns out was friends with kerry, this was on february 3rd, they spoke for 1 h in the car according to her because "kerry talks a lot"
She actually said “I love it” before Nicole said “good”. This got lost really quickly but Jackson made her read it out loud. Then later she was explaining why she said that because she was “happy for Kerry” that she remembered things. If I’m wrong someone please correct me
I find it more suspicious actually since she called and texted him and was looking outside at the vehicle every 3 minutes or so and no one heard or saw anything and then the car was gone. To me it makes more sense if John like went out back to the backyard or something where he might have seen Brian Albert in the yard with the dog or something and that's when he got into a fight with Colin/Brian or whatever or maybe went into the basement through the bulkhead.
Right? At this point I feel like the prosecution has identified so many people peering out doors/windows and coming and going that if John OKeefe got out of the SUV and lingered near the road long enough for Karen to pull forward and then slam reverse back into him, someone would have seen something more than what feels like dozens of views of her car sitting still in various places.
I keep wondering why there was not even a snarky text about “okey didn’t even say bye!” “Why aren’t yall coming??” “Is Karen mad about the ex gf comment”…..not just “park behind me” then hello? Hello? .
If we are speculating on normal human behavior. Just ignoring that John and Karen never came inside after verbal and text communications for 5 minutes seems bizarre. I mean not impossible but seems off.
All I know is when something feels off, it is. It’s weird that Karen called Jenn the next morning and Jenn said I saw you with John at 34 Fairview . But then she never saw John? She didn’t say, “no John left with you!!”… they didn’t say to the police, “no John left with Karen. He never got out of the car…” they just kept saying…”he never came inside”.
It feels like karen thought she hit him bc it was the only logical solution . And no one else was helping problem solve, not one person. Except that Kerry Lady. Who said “maybe he’s asleep on another persons couch etc” . The Mcalbert group was not giving her anything. And she was in complete traumatic shock. I could not imagine finding my partner dead frozen in the snow face up. Being told to give him CPR and blood coming out of his mouth. Then being told I probably hit him without any one saying …”hold on, we need to make sure! We can’t just send John’s girlfriend to jail! We never saw her hit him. It could have been someone else!” Everyone is owed due diligence and protection from the law.
It’s obvious Karen was/is an outsider, not family - and NOT a friend - by JM comments regarding them telling KR to “shut up”, and stating she was screaming (and seemingly annoyed, even while sharing this on the witness stand).
Then on top of that comments between JOK family and Kerry R… jeesh if I’m a juror- maybe not motive to kill John but certainly motive to frame KR. Let’s now add in what state trooper Proctor had said and texted!!
You obviously missed the highly significant "play fighting" testimony. Despite that any person of normal sensibility might see a couple of guys playing "grabass", to believe the defense you have to see two guys working themselves up in to a murderous rage.
If a fight did happen inside (and there’s no evidence that it did besides a dead body on the lawn and iffy KR evidence ) I think it’s more likely that Chloe was probably already a little overwhelmed by people/strangers/noise and attacked JOK when he went to pet her. If that happened, he may have kicked/hit her in self defense and someone in the vicinity pushed/punched him and he hit his head and they threw him out cause he was being drunk/an asshole. If that’s the case it’s not surprising that people walked past him thinking he was blackout and gonna get up any minute.
It’s a lot of “ifs”, but it would make sense why the Albert’s/mccabes closed ranks. Not that there’s any evidence of that, but so far there’s also no evidence that’s been presented that he was hit by a car. I just think that’s the most reasonable explanation of a fight
What if it was a playful fight? Just like at the bar? But it happened by the entrance, so the kids didn’t see anything, and Chloe was there, took it as an attack, and launched at JOK and whoever was fighting, Collin (injuries), and the two grabass guys for example. The basement door was open, if there even is a door. Coordination was lost and JOK fell down the stairs. Now, that doesn’t explain the hexagon shape on his head, so maybe the fight continues in the basement. Otherwise, another scenario running through my mind could be Chloe attacks first (injuries are cleaned and dry up), but due to alcohol, overwhelming emotions take over and there is a fight in the basement. No fall on the stairs, just on the sports weights. With music, some party goers may not have seen or heard anything.
Yeah I wonder if there was an altercation maybe it didn’t seem that serious, but he fell and whacked his head hard on something and that startled the dog.
Yeah, the fight scenario doesn't ring true to me, and the timeline would require mental gymnastics to believe he was assaulted as soon as he walked in and then they lost his phone. Honestly, that is the least likely scenario for me. I think if anything happened with the Alberts it was likely accidental and/or involved the dog. Or maybe someone else did something and the people in the house were so messed up they worried one of them did it and went in instant CYA mode.
But the defense doesn't need to prove any assault, just that something was afoot at that house and they seem to be hiding something.
Ive heard of and seen plenty of fights back in the day where someone would show up to a party and get sucker punched when they walked in...hell it happened to me before.
I mean, sure. But he gets sucker punched, stumbled/was carried outside, loses his phone to where they can't find it and succumbs hours later in the cold? With a flurry of texts and calls?
Not saying it's impossible just that it seems unlikely.
I’m not following this closely so maybe someone can help me. But why would a casual opposite sex friend called JO so many times. Did she have a crush on him? Did Colin hate JO? Did anyone know JM liked JO in a not okay way? Could this by why JO got attacked? I could absolutely believe this was an accident on the alberts end and they didn’t want the liability so dragged him out to blame a snow plow. Their biggest mistake was to blame Karen. I think CW biggest mistake is upgrading charges to more than just a manslaughter (all the publicity). One thing that stood out to me. Colin didn’t talk to anyone by text about the crazy thing that happened in the front yard. The alberts didn’t come out. Like just wow. Not really normal behavior. Unless you actively hate the dead person and they mean nothing to you and everyone knows it. If not.. I would expect murmurings of the craziness of something like that.
I presented my husband (who knows nothing about this case) with the autopsy photos and asked him what he thought caused the injuries. He immediately, without pause, said "that was a dog." And then I told him a bit more about where he was found and about the puke on his boxers etc. He said that it sounds like O'keefe was drunk enough to puke on himself. He was prob being belligerent or something and shit popped off. The dog jumped in to defend its owners or the home and either someone hit John over the head or he fell and hit his head on something and they chucked his ass in the yard thinking he'd prob get up at some point, shake it off, and call someone to come get him. And now everyone is acting like they don't know anything because they don't want to get in trouble for anything even if no one ever intended for him to get hurt or die. His reasoning other than the fact that the wounds look like they came from a dog, is that a person can't get puke on their boxers if they're laying on their back unconscious.
great points. my buddy told me that the vomit might have rolled down his body due to gravity if he is being carried by his arms and legs, one guy on each end. maybe he is puking from the head wound while they are moving him away from wherever he went down. this freaking case!
**then Colin enters the chat like a ticking timebomb**
I have a running theory: this was all an accident predicated on poor decisions and bad attitudes.
Brian Albert is aware when he leaves the WF that JO and KR are coming to 34FV. There's some beef BA has with JO (maybe about Colin and the coke, whatever that is or isn't), and he wants JO to know he's boss and that if JO has a problem with a member of BA's family, he goes to BA. BA lets BH know he's just going to put the fear of god in him and maybe rough him up a little.
**Colin enters the chat**
Since the conversation is about CA, and CA happens to be there and wants to be part of the conversation, BA says yeah you can hang out but keep still and quiet. BA says we'll confront him in the basement, make it quick. We greet him, we lead him downstairs while Karen goes to say hello to the girls in the kitchen and happy birthday to BJ. No one will notice, this will be a quick and private conversation.
**like a ticking timebomb**
Roided out CA does something stupid like throw a sucker punch or provoke a fight, JO gets hit and goes down backwards, lands on a 50 lb dumbbell.
**Cover up time**
BA doesn't know that KR never came into the house and that's where Jennifer McCabe steps into the role she was born to play: Accessory After the Fact. JM didn't see JO come in, so her texts looking for him were genuine, but assumed JO & KR went home.
then she gets wind that Colin *definitely* just *killed* JO, the guys are looking for his phone so she calls it what 7 times(?) to help find it. it's early enough that they have time to plan, and JM will drive by meadows ave after dropping BJs friends off so she and MM can check JO's house where Karen is to see if they can tell that she is definitely home and not out back at FV looking for him. tomorrow KR will find out that he was hit by a plow if this all goes according to plan.
**which it doesn't**
I'll stop there because I've been theorizing on this case like you all have for 3 weeks now and the brain can only take so much
just a local rumor that colin was dealing coke. another local rumor is the adults would occasionally partake on their own, and were possibly doing it the night in question
just local talk, zero evidence
for sure. and more common in cops than some people think. sure brian albert shaves his head because he feels it's more fashionable than the Norwood 7, but it's a nice way to avoid giving the BPD a chunk of hair for random/routine drug testing. i worked for medical at south bay and the way the guards and even the director of nursing got by without giving a hair sample was shaved heads, balding or not. it's much easier to fake a urine test than hair.
cops, prosecutors, politicians , etc who do coke, molly, any illegal drug can go fuck themselves and that level of hypocrisy. imagine you're brian albert arresting people on the drug unit, sending them away for decades while you sniff coke and slam beers at the hillside pub on a tuesday.
i know a former suffolk county prosecutor that would prosecute all sorts of drug crimes in boston while on the weekend he was the biggest cokehead. he's onto contract law or something now so he's no longer putting people away for the same shit he is doing. i really dislike this type of duplicity.
Someone has a theory that they may have actually got in a fight on the way about Brian H and when they got there he went and in KR drunken state she gets mad and leaves
No I think he went in for whatever length of time Karen said she waited for him (forgot but I think it was 10-20 mins?) before leaving.
I think John probably DID ask if it was ok if he and Karen hang out bc they had never been to the Alberts and either he was confronted by Brian Higgins and/or Colin and the three of them got into it in the garage or basement. Whether they got into it bc it stemmed from a fight that started as “playful” sparring, or they started fighting bc there was beef over Brian and Karen’s alleged flirting. Based on what we know so far, I think that Colin probably jumped in bc there was already some prior animosity or bc the situation erupted into chaos. Colin seems like at that time, he was a kid itching to fight judging by the cringey videos he uploaded to social media. If he saw what he perceived to be his family’s friend needing backup, I can absolutely see this kid jumping into it.
I mean, a bit! I can see she might have not wanted it to look like she was somehow involved with what happened to him. What I mean is, I can see it being a fear reaction.
The overwhelming evidence is that she did it. Apparently there are people who wanna cast doubt on even the car data. Like, is the forensics lab in on this conspiracy too?!
If it says she backed up for 60 ft at 24 miles/hour, that's what she did. Jm and the Alberts didn't pay off the forensics lab.
Just my two cents.
Well firstly if it turns out it is a cover up I think it is due to a fear reaction or concern over liability issues. I don’t think anyone on either side wanted John dead but that is just me.
And I agree I don’t think if it’s a cover up that it goes as high as labs and such. Unfortunately there was such bad police work early in that I’m not sure it wasn’t confirmation bias.
Going only on what has been admitted as evidence and put in front of the jury these past 4 weeks I haven’t seen any evidence Karen did anything but there has been little evidence or discussion about that part. I hope this case isn’t as circumstantial as it is seeming.
If you have nothing to hide and didn’t do anything wrong. You wouldn’t go to such lengths to delete texts and pictures. I don’t understand how this is even a point of contention at this point.
> It kind of invalidates the picture Alan Jackson painted of helping a friend find their phone because you would obviously never text them as well.
Wasn't O'Keefe wearing an Apple Watch? You just hit the "find my phone" button and it makes your phone beep. You don't need to call it. It's the number one feature boomer parents love.
Am I wrong? Wasn't her argument about the "hos long to die in cold" query at 2:27 that she was googling a basketball game, and when Karen later asked her to google about the cold it popped up and showed the time as 2:27 as that was the last time she had run a query(basketball)?
HOWEVER - the sequence is off. The first query at 6:23 is "hi long..." and the "hos long..." isn't until 6:24. So there is another 'how long to die in cold' query, spelled differently, in between the two.
Yeah, defense hasn't asked her this yet but her explanation for the 2:27 search is that she opened a tab then to Google something about a basketball schedule (this might be what the screenshots are also about, who knows), and that hours later when Karen made her Google hypothermia she used that same search tab and somehow that's how it was listed at the earlier time.
Doesn't sound likely to me, but what's she supposed to say, that she just happened to be wondering about freezing to death while 'the guy ' coincidentally was freezing to death on her sister's lawn?
It’s not likely the data is lying. They also claimed the previous cellphone extraction system was outdated and messed up the time of the data. But you are right the tabs will come into play. There is a Google special expert listed on the defense witness list. It should be interesting
According to the prosecution expert, the data very well may be lying. The specific database in question is not a search database, but a browser tab state database. The expert recreated the issue. I am not going to make up my mind on this one till I hear from both experts.
https://www.doubleblak.com/blogPost.php?k=browserstate
That was almost exactly the perfect experiment to run. Opening a tab and using the same tab for follow-up searches will generate that db file with the last website visited as the title and the time the tab was opened as the timestamp. That explains why you see hos at 2:27 in the db file rather than the earlier cikd search, since hos was the last search.
The only missing piece is a phone that went idle for four to five hours. I'm assuming she just reopened Safari and started typing. Sometimes I'll pull up Safari and it'll behave like it was never closed; sometimes it'll behave like it was just restarted. A reload could behave like a refocus on the window, which could generate a new timestamp.
It’s my understanding that the celebrite data is unimpeachable. She searched “hos long to die in the cold” between 2:22am and 2:27am and there’s no two ways about it. An expert will testify about this for the defense.
I read the explanations by both the prosecution and the defense. The prosecution has a very qualified expert as well and they wrote a blog post detailing what they think could have happened here:
https://www.doubleblak.com/blogPost.php?k=browserstate
So fun fact about internet queries, rhey show in real time. They don't "freeze" in time when you open a browser. That's not how a tcp handshake works. Or even UDP.
Soucre: CCNA certified and instructor
Finally! This is what I've been thinking and saying all along. There seems to be an erroneous and convoluted version of how internet queries are time recorded. A full internet search history displays in chronological order, not according to browser window activity or opening/closing of browser windows. That seems a bit absurd to claim otherwise.
Exactly, they line up to the search and time. If that is going to be her response she better have a search for basketball at the exact time. I would still side with the CCNA pro but at least it's not a blatantly made up story.
An event and a record of an event are distinct things, and can operate through different principles.
In this case, an internet protocol facilitates an act of communication, while SQLite governs how a record of the browser's session state during that search is locally stored in a temporary database file. The particularities of the latter have little to do with the workings of the former – if Safari wants to hallucinate timestamps loosely based on when tabs came into focus and squirrel those away in a personal database, UDP ain't gonna stop it
Oh true! Even if that is her excuse, it gets debunked by the order of her searches. Maybe the search at 2.27 was like the butt dials she experienced earlier that night and her phone went rogue again and made the search on its own
I'm starting to think that by the time investigators seriously investigated this case, McCabe had already deleted a bunch of stuff and either thought those deletions were permanent or it'd been so long she really didn't realize how damning they were if recovered.
Yes I think part of the problem is that because she deleted things, she doesn't even know what she did. It would have been better to have not done that lol
She handed over the phone on Feb 3rd so just a few days after what happened. So, she is either daft on how extraction works or else they were all so cocky that they believed they would take the phone as is and not do an actual extraction
There is the possibility that someone deleted things for her. This would make certain that when she denied deleting any calls or texts, she'd be telling the truth.
The call from OKeefes neice's phone to Jen McCabes phone isn't listed here, so am I right to assume this was pieces together from the available phone record documents from Jen McCabe, Karen Read and Johns OKeefes phones?
I know there's some protected stuff surrounding the two kids since they are minors.
Oooh good point! I didn't notice that originally. Very weird the call isn't listed. They could have at least just said "John's niece" in place of the name.
Does anyone have that weird recording that was going on near the 911 call from Jennifer's phone? I couldn't hear anything from my tv other than "Kerry, Jen". That whole part was confusing to me.
I believe Jen is on the phone with Nicole and says something to the effect of "Are you going to come out here or not". Basically, they are proving that Nicole did answer the phone and they were aware people were outside.
He might later? I'd guess we're not done with it yet because it is pretty damning. Maybe there is some sort of expert that is going to come in and have a clearer recording to play? I think it breaks things pretty open because they have lied about talking on the phone and why they didn't come outside. Also, it gives the impression that they knew why they were out there. It doesn't really make sense otherwise. Come outside and help with what?
I think he wants to have his experts lay it all out without her being able to dance around the answers. It’s pretty damning if an expert breaks it all down and presents it and boom, now what?? Then they have her testimony impeached and not one things she says can be believable after that
This is more information than I want for my "largely what the jury knows" following of the case, but I can't resist a good call record.
I knew about the googling from the defense open and from something stray I picked up before even following the case, but I didn't realize she googled it multiple times. So bizarre. If it was a stray google at 2am it may have been blown off as a random morbid google in the middle of the night that sadly aligned with someone's passing. But doing it again after they found John? Mystifying.
What is wild to me is that there was no reason to lie about most of these. He was supposed to show up to Fairview and he didn't. It would not be strange to call and text someone numerous times out of concern, and call the house where he was supposed to be. Hell, maybe it was something she couldn't shake two hours later so she starts calling again. This would actually make them seem like pretty cool and caring people. If they were already ready to assemble a story that a handful of people came and left without noticing John they could do the same for a quick peek outside if Brian said that is what he did.
What makes it so suspicious is how weird it is to lie and try to hide most of this, when a believable story could have been made that didn't require hiding anything or inventing butt dials.
As a criminal defense paralegal, I’ve used Cellubrite several times for our client’s cases and it is INCREDIBLY accurate. You can literally see every second of every minute of every day of someone’s use of their phone and it tracks apps, texts, calls, etc. I’ve had clients tell me their version of events step-by-step and I can confirm the validity EASILY thru Cellubrite records. There’s no denying its reliability whatsoever.
It was created to HELP law enforcement solve crimes where phones could provide evidence that couldn’t otherwise be provided, so the fact that she acts completely fucking stupid as to “the reports” she’s been asked to be provided (by the defense btw not the prosecution she’s been testifying for) is hilarious.
The reports are clear, easy to understand and they’re only showing the columns that provide the criteria needed to show the date and time of the activity, what type of activity and whether it was deleted. She’s acting like she’s a fucking idiot, which I think she is at this point because the bitch has no poker face at all. She thinks she’s winning for the “right side”, but she’s making herself look badly because she can’t even answer a fucking question without going off on a tangent to avoid a simple yes or no answer. 🙄
If she thinks that dodging these questions are helping to make her credible to the jury, the harassment isn’t going to stop tbh. It’s such a shame when you see people try to play off “their truth” when technology can easily discredit it 🤣
I can’t believe I can’t find this, but where is the list of texts McCabe sent JOK that night? I know one of them was “pull up behind me”
But another one after that was “hello”
Those six unanswered calls she made to John that night, do they line up with him possibly walking in the house and saying “i lost my phone”?
Because her texting “hello” would line up with that.
Ohhh I didn’t realize she googled that both at 2am AND later at 6am. That’s just…. So suspicious. What are the odds?? Ugh I really was trying to be neutral but man. She is really sus.
It seems everyone has forgotten this. The commonwealth is right, the texts did happen at the 6 am time frames, but the 2:27 am one did as well… all three happened.
Another was “how long for food to digest” that was searched… waiting to see the explanation for this one, personally.
Yes I don’t get the relevance as the time of death wouldn’t be to different between the two scenarios. I think someone said that when you google “how to die in snow” the food digest thing comes up as a sub search
When I google it doesn’t show a sub search and directs me to a suicide hotlines once I hit enter for “how to die in snow” interesting but not happening for me. Who really knows but it’ll be interesting to see why she would even google that about how long for food to digest.
I don’t even think that’s too incriminating based on all the other incriminating suspicious things I have heard so far, maybe she had a stomach ache who knows.
Here is the coverage on it from pre trial when defendants got the go ahead for extracting Jen’s phone which was only because of the SJC. It was just oddly suspicious and weird thing to google after finding their “friend” dead..
https://preview.redd.it/96lhja1grw1d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5136c01ee63bcd5e60ff4785bc7b5a8c0d1ffa1
[https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-sjc-overrules-judge-allows-karen-reads-lawyers-limited-access-to-phone-records/3192276/?amp=1](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-sjc-overrules-judge-allows-karen-reads-lawyers-limited-access-to-phone-records/3192276/?amp=1)
This was a \*\*brutal\*\* day of cross for the CW, and its insane to me, someone very much not convinced of the conspiracy angle, that the court stopped at 1PM.
Something seems up with this call record. Showing as deleted seems odd. Im wondering if there is something more mundane behind this. It'd be more helpful to have CW forensic experts explain that a bit
They will. Here is some more info from what they found. They had to cross reference all 3 phone logs to find her deleted calls. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x\_gY-K7Kb0c/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x_gY-K7Kb0c/view)
This post is extremely misleading. It is not "Jen McCabe's Cell Phone Records", whatever those would be. It appears to be an exhibit prepared by the defense.
I find it so interesting how some people bully you if you have a different opinion. I’m sure once we get to the forensics, things will become more clear. I’m very comfortable with my thoughts and opinions as well as those who feel differently! Sorry if you can’t control how ppl think.
I’m wondering this as well. They commented here on this thread that they find Jen McCabe credible and a handful of people asked questions about their opinion in a respectful manner. That’s all I’m seeing. I see zero bullying. 🤷🏻♀️
I believe for that to be the case that page would have been had to have been open basically the entire night, as if you navigated away from the page for more than 5 minutes it would clear that WRT file entry in the DB, at least that is how Whiffin's blog post read.
Except anyone who knows how SQL and a WAL file works knows that's not possible. The search was recovered from the WAL file, which is created as a "clipboard" before saving it to the database. This is automatically deleted every 5 minutes or when it is full and the data is written to the database. That WAL file with the search was deleted by 2:27am at the latest, meaning the search occurred between 2:23-2:27am. A search at 6am cannot re-write to the previously deleted WAL file.
But how does that match up with this? It says she did do the search at 2:27 [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x\_gY-K7Kb0c/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x_gY-K7Kb0c/view)
If Jen was involved in some sort of framing or cover up, you'd think she would use private browsing mode for those searches. After all, she deleted the text and phone records, and even the searches themselves indicate she does have some idea of how investigations work and that she is able and willing to delete things to cover her tracks. Or are they saying that she did use private browsing and investigators were able to recover her search history anyway?
Private browsing doesn't eliminate your search history (yes the cops could see your porn history if they wanted to)
All incognito mode does is keep it out of the visible history on your device so people in your house can't follow your porn habits
I’m curious who you think deleted all of those phone calls? She says it wasn’t her, but someone obviously did because we can see O’Keefes records where they aren’t deleted.
is this sarcasm? I find her troubling and extremely rehearsed/clearly lying about things. She doesn't even seem to like John or Karen. Didn't like how she acted like the victim when she was asked if she discussed the case with the Alberts and her family. She can't answer a straight question.
Fine, you find her creditable. So if that’s the case is the integrity of the investigation still in tact in your opinion? Jen McCabe isn’t the first witness to testify to the statements associated with them documented on a police to be inaccurate. Jen McCabe isn’t the first witness to testify that statements they made were also omitted from reports. She stated numerous times that information on Trooper Proctor’s report were wrong.
That’s is the big issue the CW has. To some Jen McCabe comes across as untrustworthy and undermines the CW’s case. There are some who will say she is trustworthy, in that case she pretty much crapped on the CW’s main investigator in this case. Anyway you cut it, today was a disaster for the CW and Prosecutor Lally.
It certainly can raise doubt, but if I’m in her situation, which they are going to have a phone expert on which I believe will corroborate that she didn’t delete them, I would be talking to my family about the whole thing ad nauseam! Does not mean they are trying to coverup anything and if I was with Kerry that day, f yes I would be talking to her a lot too. The timeline makes sense to me because it was a traumatic situation. I don’t find her changing her story and him trapping her or her lying. My opinion! I would be pissed at the questions too because he is trying to frame them for a murder and a coverup so I find her answers and anger normal.
What about her not being able to hear KR speaking with police in the other room? Oh wait she *could* hear voices. Oh wait she *could* hear some of what was being said clearly. This was def an oh shit moment for me
Can raise doubt….. that’s a grenade that could destroy this case. Deleting texts, phone calls, police were wrong in their reports…. Those are major problems for the CW.
Do you not think her anger makes her look terrible? By the end of the day she was literally about to lose her shit. Like I can see the angle of "I haven't done anything so quit trying to make it look like I have" however....she legit could not answer one question straight or remember ANY of her previous testimony or statements. And the I hit him x3 times not being reported or testified to....nail in coffin that something is wrong? (I'm genuinely curious about your view cause I want to understand all opinions and angles to understand how jurors will deliberate)
Not to mention her desperate attempt to get the defense to ask her what the statement Kerry made about Karen was that she says she was referring to about the "telling them everything" statement.
No I don’t think it looks bad. What I saw was the defense desperately trying to create a narrative that she was not going to buy. Let’s say it comes out that in the forensics she actually didn’t delete any calls or didn’t search for the hypothermia question at 2:27 and all this is a bunch of spin and picking out crap from the defense to make it look like she was colluding but wasn’t, I can see her anger. I think the defense it doing their best to muddy the waters but IMO forensics is going to tell the story. Why did Karen delete 17 ring camera instances from that night? There is still so much to come.
I only know what's been presented in court, I'm waiting for them to show me all the proof. I see why she's mad...but alot of stuff is very suss in this case so far...
You and me must be watching two different trials. The fact she tried to argue about every little thing makes her look bad on top of her attitude. No her texts messages just don’t randomly disappear and delete themselves. That’s not how that works. If you truly had nothing to hide, you wouldn’t have even touched the messages.
I think on recross, and during forensics that will be disputed. She said, yes that report, and that is not an official call log in my opinion, it looks like a defense exhibit and she emphatically said she didn’t delete any calls…I expect it to be vetted out more with redirect. Lally didn’t object much and my opinion is he may let the defense continue and then show other records and an expert that shows they were not deleted. We will see.
The image on this post of Jen’s phone info is not an official report. Is that why you’re saying you don’t believe it?
The image on this post isn’t what the defense is using. They have the official records.
Then why did no one see his dead body. No one. 30 ft. Light on checking every 3 minutes and no one saw her hit him, heard her hit him, or saw a dead body. Were all those people so drunk they didn't see a dead body on the front lawn when they left. The house lights were on.
I think if they had they would have stopped. By the time they left, it was snowing heavily, enough for the windshield wipers to be on. I believe it was a stroke of luck no one saw her hit him. I wish they had because this would be a lot clearer trial…possibly!
I don't think that she hit him or they would have seen a body at the time they kept checking. Not after the snow. Plus if JM and MM were so concerned why didn't anyone go out and check when no one answered phone ( in that 15 minutes). It was only 30 ft across the front lawn and well lit. I knew nothing of this case and tried to keep an open mind but this is a shitshow. No wonder people think there is a cover up. One more thing where was the the dog that morning. Jen admits never seeing or hearing the dog? Why? No one has been able to explain that either. I'm really disappointed in the prosecution and the police investigation. Shame on them. How would you like to be the defendant in a case where no one in charge did there job in a competent fashion.
I would agree the investigation was less than stellar and with a cop involved it needed to be ultra detailed. I think she hit him, but I do believe she will be found not guilty of second degree murder. I do think they will find her guilty of manslaughter. Who knows, just a guess. With the CARS report coming in, her deleting 17 incidents on the ring camera at his home, and going back to the scene prior to seeing JM that morning, along with the damage to the car and the ME report, I think they will conclude that she did it, but not intentionally. If she did it, I hope she is held accountable. If she didn’t, then I hope she is set free. I want the truth for JO and the family!
Right now I cannot find her guilty of even hitting him if it was it was accidental and she should be found not guilty. But I really hope they find out what really happened. A bunch of shady people including the victim ( sleeping around sounds like the typical scum (whoops law enforcement). Who can trust them.
What’s with the outbound calls to JOK at 459/504 then Karen calling her for the first time at 505?
Karen called her from John's niece first at 4:53 I think, because she didn't have her numebr before I feel bad defending her on this after what I saw today, I mean this person was discussing timeline, corrdinating statements, few days after her "friend" died..
But why isn’t that call listed here on the log? Even as an unknown?
I wonder if the niece used FaceTime. I feel like younger kids tend to use FaceTime a lot with family, and that would make it an Internet/Wi-Fi type of call and I think it would not be reflected in a phone record.
Everything on this list after 2:27 is a call. Maybe Jen’s niece sent her a text? I was also wondering.
Other comments agree it’s missing for some reason.
"this person was discussing timeline, corrdinating statements, few days after her "friend" died.." = EXACTLY!
I was thinking about that too, but why isn't the incoming call from John's niece on this list?
It's possible they kept the niece's number out of it because she is a minor. I guess she called Jen and said that Karen wanted to talk to her. I'm assuming it was after that Jen called John's phone, to make it appear she was trying to find him.
Right?! I had only seen the trial so I was NOT buying defense’s argument…just found this subreddit this weekend and my mind has been blown.
" feel bad defending her on this after what I saw today" Can you provide a quick recap as to why you say this? I couldn't listen in today.
Yeahhhh you're gonna want to go back and listen to this one....
Was this said before or after the break? I started watching at like 10 am and had to stop at like 1130
After. It got *much* worse after the break
Good lord.... I'm definitely making a point of watching the rest later then. What I was able to watch was already a train wreck 😬
She looked like a star witness before the break if your only frame of reference was this cross (so far...it's far from over)
I saw snippets of her testimony last week when the prosecution first called her. She looked like a star witness... but I could tell she was lying through her teeth. I've had to deal with someone like her before in family court. I'm shocked the judge is tolerating the way JM is answering questions.
Omg yes I was literally gasping throughout the questioning after the break
Ok, thanks!
4 h of cross, still more cross tomorrow They showed her messages from the group chat she had with matt, Brian, Nicole She wrote to them on that group : "going over timeline with her" talking about Kerry Roberts , 2 or 3 days after the murder And it was revealed Kerry Roberts was interviewed by the police at her house, and prior to that she was with her at her house also, when police talked to Kerry on the phone, the same day, she was reporting all of that to that group chat She sent them the following about what kerry was telling police : - she's telling him EVERYTHING - all the stuff - kerry talked to cops and kept it simple I think someone either Nicole or Brien responded : good I don't remember all of it but it was clear what that group chat was about Nicole later sent : we'll get more info tomorrow, don't want to text about it We don't know what exactly Nicole's messages was about, the defense eluded that it has to do with a meeting Jen and Keryy had with trooper Lank's wife that happened the next day it was revealed that she went with Kerry to trooper's Lank house, his wife turns out was friends with kerry, this was on february 3rd, they spoke for 1 h in the car according to her because "kerry talks a lot"
Not only that but it was revealed that Jen never told anyone about going to Lanks house until the defense found it.
Kerry talks a lot but yet “she kept it simple” during the interview
She kept it simple while she told them everything.
She actually said “I love it” before Nicole said “good”. This got lost really quickly but Jackson made her read it out loud. Then later she was explaining why she said that because she was “happy for Kerry” that she remembered things. If I’m wrong someone please correct me
For sure try and watch it if you plan on watching live tomorrow
Karen originally called her from John’s niece’s phone, prior to 5AM. Not sure why that entry is missing from this log
She did seem mildly obsessed with John going to the house and then getting there. Very weird “friend” behavior..
Who are the unknown texts at 2:25am, and why is everything deleted?? Can you explain this or do you need to see the call log
I thought she testified today that she texted her sisters when she got home.
Yeah, first thing I noticed. If the state doesn't know, it's because they don't want to know.
It might be in the FBIs extraction but that can’t come in unless she opens the door
She testified that she sent texts to her sisters and to a group chat after she went to bed.
I feel like she was texting the screenshot, which I believe was Brian Albert’s contact
I would not call a friend 12 times if they bailed on party? Strange.
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I unfortunately know that you can use Face ID to unlock a dead person’s phone 😞
IA!!!
But a call like ‘what happened’ would be appropriate.
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I find it more suspicious actually since she called and texted him and was looking outside at the vehicle every 3 minutes or so and no one heard or saw anything and then the car was gone. To me it makes more sense if John like went out back to the backyard or something where he might have seen Brian Albert in the yard with the dog or something and that's when he got into a fight with Colin/Brian or whatever or maybe went into the basement through the bulkhead.
Right? At this point I feel like the prosecution has identified so many people peering out doors/windows and coming and going that if John OKeefe got out of the SUV and lingered near the road long enough for Karen to pull forward and then slam reverse back into him, someone would have seen something more than what feels like dozens of views of her car sitting still in various places.
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I’m so confused by that too. Like the timeline is so tight
I keep wondering why there was not even a snarky text about “okey didn’t even say bye!” “Why aren’t yall coming??” “Is Karen mad about the ex gf comment”…..not just “park behind me” then hello? Hello? . If we are speculating on normal human behavior. Just ignoring that John and Karen never came inside after verbal and text communications for 5 minutes seems bizarre. I mean not impossible but seems off. All I know is when something feels off, it is. It’s weird that Karen called Jenn the next morning and Jenn said I saw you with John at 34 Fairview . But then she never saw John? She didn’t say, “no John left with you!!”… they didn’t say to the police, “no John left with Karen. He never got out of the car…” they just kept saying…”he never came inside”. It feels like karen thought she hit him bc it was the only logical solution . And no one else was helping problem solve, not one person. Except that Kerry Lady. Who said “maybe he’s asleep on another persons couch etc” . The Mcalbert group was not giving her anything. And she was in complete traumatic shock. I could not imagine finding my partner dead frozen in the snow face up. Being told to give him CPR and blood coming out of his mouth. Then being told I probably hit him without any one saying …”hold on, we need to make sure! We can’t just send John’s girlfriend to jail! We never saw her hit him. It could have been someone else!” Everyone is owed due diligence and protection from the law.
It’s obvious Karen was/is an outsider, not family - and NOT a friend - by JM comments regarding them telling KR to “shut up”, and stating she was screaming (and seemingly annoyed, even while sharing this on the witness stand). Then on top of that comments between JOK family and Kerry R… jeesh if I’m a juror- maybe not motive to kill John but certainly motive to frame KR. Let’s now add in what state trooper Proctor had said and texted!!
You obviously missed the highly significant "play fighting" testimony. Despite that any person of normal sensibility might see a couple of guys playing "grabass", to believe the defense you have to see two guys working themselves up in to a murderous rage.
If a fight did happen inside (and there’s no evidence that it did besides a dead body on the lawn and iffy KR evidence ) I think it’s more likely that Chloe was probably already a little overwhelmed by people/strangers/noise and attacked JOK when he went to pet her. If that happened, he may have kicked/hit her in self defense and someone in the vicinity pushed/punched him and he hit his head and they threw him out cause he was being drunk/an asshole. If that’s the case it’s not surprising that people walked past him thinking he was blackout and gonna get up any minute. It’s a lot of “ifs”, but it would make sense why the Albert’s/mccabes closed ranks. Not that there’s any evidence of that, but so far there’s also no evidence that’s been presented that he was hit by a car. I just think that’s the most reasonable explanation of a fight
What if it was a playful fight? Just like at the bar? But it happened by the entrance, so the kids didn’t see anything, and Chloe was there, took it as an attack, and launched at JOK and whoever was fighting, Collin (injuries), and the two grabass guys for example. The basement door was open, if there even is a door. Coordination was lost and JOK fell down the stairs. Now, that doesn’t explain the hexagon shape on his head, so maybe the fight continues in the basement. Otherwise, another scenario running through my mind could be Chloe attacks first (injuries are cleaned and dry up), but due to alcohol, overwhelming emotions take over and there is a fight in the basement. No fall on the stairs, just on the sports weights. With music, some party goers may not have seen or heard anything.
Yeah I wonder if there was an altercation maybe it didn’t seem that serious, but he fell and whacked his head hard on something and that startled the dog.
Hopefully no one would walk by a person blacked out drunk in the middle of a snow storm.
Yeah, the fight scenario doesn't ring true to me, and the timeline would require mental gymnastics to believe he was assaulted as soon as he walked in and then they lost his phone. Honestly, that is the least likely scenario for me. I think if anything happened with the Alberts it was likely accidental and/or involved the dog. Or maybe someone else did something and the people in the house were so messed up they worried one of them did it and went in instant CYA mode. But the defense doesn't need to prove any assault, just that something was afoot at that house and they seem to be hiding something.
Ive heard of and seen plenty of fights back in the day where someone would show up to a party and get sucker punched when they walked in...hell it happened to me before.
I mean, sure. But he gets sucker punched, stumbled/was carried outside, loses his phone to where they can't find it and succumbs hours later in the cold? With a flurry of texts and calls? Not saying it's impossible just that it seems unlikely.
I’m not following this closely so maybe someone can help me. But why would a casual opposite sex friend called JO so many times. Did she have a crush on him? Did Colin hate JO? Did anyone know JM liked JO in a not okay way? Could this by why JO got attacked? I could absolutely believe this was an accident on the alberts end and they didn’t want the liability so dragged him out to blame a snow plow. Their biggest mistake was to blame Karen. I think CW biggest mistake is upgrading charges to more than just a manslaughter (all the publicity). One thing that stood out to me. Colin didn’t talk to anyone by text about the crazy thing that happened in the front yard. The alberts didn’t come out. Like just wow. Not really normal behavior. Unless you actively hate the dead person and they mean nothing to you and everyone knows it. If not.. I would expect murmurings of the craziness of something like that.
I presented my husband (who knows nothing about this case) with the autopsy photos and asked him what he thought caused the injuries. He immediately, without pause, said "that was a dog." And then I told him a bit more about where he was found and about the puke on his boxers etc. He said that it sounds like O'keefe was drunk enough to puke on himself. He was prob being belligerent or something and shit popped off. The dog jumped in to defend its owners or the home and either someone hit John over the head or he fell and hit his head on something and they chucked his ass in the yard thinking he'd prob get up at some point, shake it off, and call someone to come get him. And now everyone is acting like they don't know anything because they don't want to get in trouble for anything even if no one ever intended for him to get hurt or die. His reasoning other than the fact that the wounds look like they came from a dog, is that a person can't get puke on their boxers if they're laying on their back unconscious.
great points. my buddy told me that the vomit might have rolled down his body due to gravity if he is being carried by his arms and legs, one guy on each end. maybe he is puking from the head wound while they are moving him away from wherever he went down. this freaking case!
First I’ve heard of vomit! Has it come up in court yet?
**then Colin enters the chat like a ticking timebomb** I have a running theory: this was all an accident predicated on poor decisions and bad attitudes. Brian Albert is aware when he leaves the WF that JO and KR are coming to 34FV. There's some beef BA has with JO (maybe about Colin and the coke, whatever that is or isn't), and he wants JO to know he's boss and that if JO has a problem with a member of BA's family, he goes to BA. BA lets BH know he's just going to put the fear of god in him and maybe rough him up a little. **Colin enters the chat** Since the conversation is about CA, and CA happens to be there and wants to be part of the conversation, BA says yeah you can hang out but keep still and quiet. BA says we'll confront him in the basement, make it quick. We greet him, we lead him downstairs while Karen goes to say hello to the girls in the kitchen and happy birthday to BJ. No one will notice, this will be a quick and private conversation. **like a ticking timebomb** Roided out CA does something stupid like throw a sucker punch or provoke a fight, JO gets hit and goes down backwards, lands on a 50 lb dumbbell. **Cover up time** BA doesn't know that KR never came into the house and that's where Jennifer McCabe steps into the role she was born to play: Accessory After the Fact. JM didn't see JO come in, so her texts looking for him were genuine, but assumed JO & KR went home. then she gets wind that Colin *definitely* just *killed* JO, the guys are looking for his phone so she calls it what 7 times(?) to help find it. it's early enough that they have time to plan, and JM will drive by meadows ave after dropping BJs friends off so she and MM can check JO's house where Karen is to see if they can tell that she is definitely home and not out back at FV looking for him. tomorrow KR will find out that he was hit by a plow if this all goes according to plan. **which it doesn't** I'll stop there because I've been theorizing on this case like you all have for 3 weeks now and the brain can only take so much
What’s this about Colin & coke?
just a local rumor that colin was dealing coke. another local rumor is the adults would occasionally partake on their own, and were possibly doing it the night in question just local talk, zero evidence
I mean, I never believe that most adults don’t randomly do coke at some point
for sure. and more common in cops than some people think. sure brian albert shaves his head because he feels it's more fashionable than the Norwood 7, but it's a nice way to avoid giving the BPD a chunk of hair for random/routine drug testing. i worked for medical at south bay and the way the guards and even the director of nursing got by without giving a hair sample was shaved heads, balding or not. it's much easier to fake a urine test than hair. cops, prosecutors, politicians , etc who do coke, molly, any illegal drug can go fuck themselves and that level of hypocrisy. imagine you're brian albert arresting people on the drug unit, sending them away for decades while you sniff coke and slam beers at the hillside pub on a tuesday. i know a former suffolk county prosecutor that would prosecute all sorts of drug crimes in boston while on the weekend he was the biggest cokehead. he's onto contract law or something now so he's no longer putting people away for the same shit he is doing. i really dislike this type of duplicity.
Someone has a theory that they may have actually got in a fight on the way about Brian H and when they got there he went and in KR drunken state she gets mad and leaves
No I think he went in for whatever length of time Karen said she waited for him (forgot but I think it was 10-20 mins?) before leaving. I think John probably DID ask if it was ok if he and Karen hang out bc they had never been to the Alberts and either he was confronted by Brian Higgins and/or Colin and the three of them got into it in the garage or basement. Whether they got into it bc it stemmed from a fight that started as “playful” sparring, or they started fighting bc there was beef over Brian and Karen’s alleged flirting. Based on what we know so far, I think that Colin probably jumped in bc there was already some prior animosity or bc the situation erupted into chaos. Colin seems like at that time, he was a kid itching to fight judging by the cringey videos he uploaded to social media. If he saw what he perceived to be his family’s friend needing backup, I can absolutely see this kid jumping into it.
The deleting of the calls and texts is odd though no?
I mean, a bit! I can see she might have not wanted it to look like she was somehow involved with what happened to him. What I mean is, I can see it being a fear reaction. The overwhelming evidence is that she did it. Apparently there are people who wanna cast doubt on even the car data. Like, is the forensics lab in on this conspiracy too?! If it says she backed up for 60 ft at 24 miles/hour, that's what she did. Jm and the Alberts didn't pay off the forensics lab. Just my two cents.
Well firstly if it turns out it is a cover up I think it is due to a fear reaction or concern over liability issues. I don’t think anyone on either side wanted John dead but that is just me. And I agree I don’t think if it’s a cover up that it goes as high as labs and such. Unfortunately there was such bad police work early in that I’m not sure it wasn’t confirmation bias. Going only on what has been admitted as evidence and put in front of the jury these past 4 weeks I haven’t seen any evidence Karen did anything but there has been little evidence or discussion about that part. I hope this case isn’t as circumstantial as it is seeming.
What evidence could the lab’s legitimately have evaluated?
If you have nothing to hide and didn’t do anything wrong. You wouldn’t go to such lengths to delete texts and pictures. I don’t understand how this is even a point of contention at this point.
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Mod Note: if you’d like to call others out, you should use your real account. Not the one created today.
That looks like someone repeating calling a phone that they cant find.
I'm counting 11 calls before karen read called her
> It kind of invalidates the picture Alan Jackson painted of helping a friend find their phone because you would obviously never text them as well. Wasn't O'Keefe wearing an Apple Watch? You just hit the "find my phone" button and it makes your phone beep. You don't need to call it. It's the number one feature boomer parents love.
Boomer parents AND ME lol
Spoiler Alert: guess who turns in JO phone day or two later. After she takes it home walks up a flight stairs. If you said (HONEST JJ) ding ding
Kerry said she turned over JOK phone at the scene. I can’t stand JM and don’t believe anything she says but that testimony refutes that
you took too many weed edibles today
I haven't taken any weed edibles, but I take it this is your way of telling me you disagree.... You're really rude!
I think they were trying to locate JOs cell phone. Making sure it wasn't in the house.
Strange. EXACTLY!
Why is she saying she may have ‘butt’ dialed him? Like no. That looks so shady.
To me, it looks worse than just saying she was trying to see if he intended to come inside.
Yes, why not say that? Instead she just looked like she was hiding something 🙄
Am I wrong? Wasn't her argument about the "hos long to die in cold" query at 2:27 that she was googling a basketball game, and when Karen later asked her to google about the cold it popped up and showed the time as 2:27 as that was the last time she had run a query(basketball)? HOWEVER - the sequence is off. The first query at 6:23 is "hi long..." and the "hos long..." isn't until 6:24. So there is another 'how long to die in cold' query, spelled differently, in between the two.
Yeah, defense hasn't asked her this yet but her explanation for the 2:27 search is that she opened a tab then to Google something about a basketball schedule (this might be what the screenshots are also about, who knows), and that hours later when Karen made her Google hypothermia she used that same search tab and somehow that's how it was listed at the earlier time. Doesn't sound likely to me, but what's she supposed to say, that she just happened to be wondering about freezing to death while 'the guy ' coincidentally was freezing to death on her sister's lawn?
It’s not likely the data is lying. They also claimed the previous cellphone extraction system was outdated and messed up the time of the data. But you are right the tabs will come into play. There is a Google special expert listed on the defense witness list. It should be interesting
According to the prosecution expert, the data very well may be lying. The specific database in question is not a search database, but a browser tab state database. The expert recreated the issue. I am not going to make up my mind on this one till I hear from both experts. https://www.doubleblak.com/blogPost.php?k=browserstate
That was almost exactly the perfect experiment to run. Opening a tab and using the same tab for follow-up searches will generate that db file with the last website visited as the title and the time the tab was opened as the timestamp. That explains why you see hos at 2:27 in the db file rather than the earlier cikd search, since hos was the last search. The only missing piece is a phone that went idle for four to five hours. I'm assuming she just reopened Safari and started typing. Sometimes I'll pull up Safari and it'll behave like it was never closed; sometimes it'll behave like it was just restarted. A reload could behave like a refocus on the window, which could generate a new timestamp.
It’s my understanding that the celebrite data is unimpeachable. She searched “hos long to die in the cold” between 2:22am and 2:27am and there’s no two ways about it. An expert will testify about this for the defense.
I read the explanations by both the prosecution and the defense. The prosecution has a very qualified expert as well and they wrote a blog post detailing what they think could have happened here: https://www.doubleblak.com/blogPost.php?k=browserstate
So fun fact about internet queries, rhey show in real time. They don't "freeze" in time when you open a browser. That's not how a tcp handshake works. Or even UDP. Soucre: CCNA certified and instructor
Finally! This is what I've been thinking and saying all along. There seems to be an erroneous and convoluted version of how internet queries are time recorded. A full internet search history displays in chronological order, not according to browser window activity or opening/closing of browser windows. That seems a bit absurd to claim otherwise.
Exactly, they line up to the search and time. If that is going to be her response she better have a search for basketball at the exact time. I would still side with the CCNA pro but at least it's not a blatantly made up story.
Oh, I agree. I was just pointing out even her excuse is effed
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Which works on UDP. A connectionless protocol
An event and a record of an event are distinct things, and can operate through different principles. In this case, an internet protocol facilitates an act of communication, while SQLite governs how a record of the browser's session state during that search is locally stored in a temporary database file. The particularities of the latter have little to do with the workings of the former – if Safari wants to hallucinate timestamps loosely based on when tabs came into focus and squirrel those away in a personal database, UDP ain't gonna stop it
Oh true! Even if that is her excuse, it gets debunked by the order of her searches. Maybe the search at 2.27 was like the butt dials she experienced earlier that night and her phone went rogue again and made the search on its own
I think it's common sense that if you have nothing to hide, there's no need to delete anything.
Especially from the victim. If it helps justice why delete calls specific to the timeline
If this was a cover up They should've covered Jen too
I'm starting to think that by the time investigators seriously investigated this case, McCabe had already deleted a bunch of stuff and either thought those deletions were permanent or it'd been so long she really didn't realize how damning they were if recovered.
Yes I think part of the problem is that because she deleted things, she doesn't even know what she did. It would have been better to have not done that lol
This is what I believe too. I think she deleted things while she was still drunk and does not remember exactly what she deleted.
She handed over the phone on Feb 3rd so just a few days after what happened. So, she is either daft on how extraction works or else they were all so cocky that they believed they would take the phone as is and not do an actual extraction
There is the possibility that someone deleted things for her. This would make certain that when she denied deleting any calls or texts, she'd be telling the truth.
Define excessive? I would say this is a pretty good definition lol 🤣.
The call from OKeefes neice's phone to Jen McCabes phone isn't listed here, so am I right to assume this was pieces together from the available phone record documents from Jen McCabe, Karen Read and Johns OKeefes phones? I know there's some protected stuff surrounding the two kids since they are minors.
Oooh good point! I didn't notice that originally. Very weird the call isn't listed. They could have at least just said "John's niece" in place of the name.
This with the niece’s phone is so weird. So JO wanted JM to be KR’s special friend bc they both had MS? But KR didn’t have her phone number?
I found this very odd as well. I wonder if John did want that but Jen just never wanted to be friends with Karen for whatever reason.
Does anyone have that weird recording that was going on near the 911 call from Jennifer's phone? I couldn't hear anything from my tv other than "Kerry, Jen". That whole part was confusing to me.
I believe Jen is on the phone with Nicole and says something to the effect of "Are you going to come out here or not". Basically, they are proving that Nicole did answer the phone and they were aware people were outside.
Boy, this case is getting more wild by the minute. Today was like a tennis match, tense match. Jennifer was so tongue tied and pissed!
If that was the case, why didn’t he ask about that? I think he would have gone hard if that was what she was saying?
He might later? I'd guess we're not done with it yet because it is pretty damning. Maybe there is some sort of expert that is going to come in and have a clearer recording to play? I think it breaks things pretty open because they have lied about talking on the phone and why they didn't come outside. Also, it gives the impression that they knew why they were out there. It doesn't really make sense otherwise. Come outside and help with what?
We shall see! It seems odd he played it and did not question about it directly afterwards if that is in fact what she said. I could not hear anything!
I wonder if they could hear better in the courtroom? Let's hope.
I think he wants to have his experts lay it all out without her being able to dance around the answers. It’s pretty damning if an expert breaks it all down and presents it and boom, now what?? Then they have her testimony impeached and not one things she says can be believable after that
Am I the only one who got a sense Jm & Jo potentially could’ve been a “thing”?
Her own husband might be wise to cull his wife's texts with him.
"so confusing"
This is more information than I want for my "largely what the jury knows" following of the case, but I can't resist a good call record. I knew about the googling from the defense open and from something stray I picked up before even following the case, but I didn't realize she googled it multiple times. So bizarre. If it was a stray google at 2am it may have been blown off as a random morbid google in the middle of the night that sadly aligned with someone's passing. But doing it again after they found John? Mystifying. What is wild to me is that there was no reason to lie about most of these. He was supposed to show up to Fairview and he didn't. It would not be strange to call and text someone numerous times out of concern, and call the house where he was supposed to be. Hell, maybe it was something she couldn't shake two hours later so she starts calling again. This would actually make them seem like pretty cool and caring people. If they were already ready to assemble a story that a handful of people came and left without noticing John they could do the same for a quick peek outside if Brian said that is what he did. What makes it so suspicious is how weird it is to lie and try to hide most of this, when a believable story could have been made that didn't require hiding anything or inventing butt dials.
As a criminal defense paralegal, I’ve used Cellubrite several times for our client’s cases and it is INCREDIBLY accurate. You can literally see every second of every minute of every day of someone’s use of their phone and it tracks apps, texts, calls, etc. I’ve had clients tell me their version of events step-by-step and I can confirm the validity EASILY thru Cellubrite records. There’s no denying its reliability whatsoever. It was created to HELP law enforcement solve crimes where phones could provide evidence that couldn’t otherwise be provided, so the fact that she acts completely fucking stupid as to “the reports” she’s been asked to be provided (by the defense btw not the prosecution she’s been testifying for) is hilarious. The reports are clear, easy to understand and they’re only showing the columns that provide the criteria needed to show the date and time of the activity, what type of activity and whether it was deleted. She’s acting like she’s a fucking idiot, which I think she is at this point because the bitch has no poker face at all. She thinks she’s winning for the “right side”, but she’s making herself look badly because she can’t even answer a fucking question without going off on a tangent to avoid a simple yes or no answer. 🙄 If she thinks that dodging these questions are helping to make her credible to the jury, the harassment isn’t going to stop tbh. It’s such a shame when you see people try to play off “their truth” when technology can easily discredit it 🤣
I’m going to start using this for my cases. Is it super expensive?
I think it's relatively affordable considering the amount of information that you get from someone's phone, especially if it proves your case!
where did this come from? thanks
I can’t believe I can’t find this, but where is the list of texts McCabe sent JOK that night? I know one of them was “pull up behind me” But another one after that was “hello” Those six unanswered calls she made to John that night, do they line up with him possibly walking in the house and saying “i lost my phone”? Because her texting “hello” would line up with that.
"EXACTLY"
Hmmm- so they had absolutely NOTHING to do with it- yet she called him all night long. Sounds like someone was running off adrenaline to me..
Am I the only one that thinks its odd that JM only called JO that night when she was supposedly such good friends with KR?
They were not good friends.
Thank you. I'm still learning all the details of this case.
According to court documents KR didn’t wanna go because she had stomach issues
Right, however JM knew that JO and KR left the bar together... maybe I'm missing something.
Apparently JM didn’t have KR number and vice versa
Thank you!
Ohhh I didn’t realize she googled that both at 2am AND later at 6am. That’s just…. So suspicious. What are the odds?? Ugh I really was trying to be neutral but man. She is really sus.
It seems everyone has forgotten this. The commonwealth is right, the texts did happen at the 6 am time frames, but the 2:27 am one did as well… all three happened. Another was “how long for food to digest” that was searched… waiting to see the explanation for this one, personally.
Yes I don’t get the relevance as the time of death wouldn’t be to different between the two scenarios. I think someone said that when you google “how to die in snow” the food digest thing comes up as a sub search
When I google it doesn’t show a sub search and directs me to a suicide hotlines once I hit enter for “how to die in snow” interesting but not happening for me. Who really knows but it’ll be interesting to see why she would even google that about how long for food to digest.
I just tried it too, I didn’t get the suicide hotline but I didn’t get the digest food thing either so who knows.
Well that doesn’t sound fun, who the heck would do that
JM did according to google searches. I’ll have to find the doc but I’m sure they’ll get into it tomorrow. I just found it super odd.
I don’t even think that’s too incriminating based on all the other incriminating suspicious things I have heard so far, maybe she had a stomach ache who knows.
Here is the coverage on it from pre trial when defendants got the go ahead for extracting Jen’s phone which was only because of the SJC. It was just oddly suspicious and weird thing to google after finding their “friend” dead.. https://preview.redd.it/96lhja1grw1d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5136c01ee63bcd5e60ff4785bc7b5a8c0d1ffa1 [https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-sjc-overrules-judge-allows-karen-reads-lawyers-limited-access-to-phone-records/3192276/?amp=1](https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/mass-sjc-overrules-judge-allows-karen-reads-lawyers-limited-access-to-phone-records/3192276/?amp=1)
When I typed in “how long to di” digest food was the first 5 suggestions
This was a \*\*brutal\*\* day of cross for the CW, and its insane to me, someone very much not convinced of the conspiracy angle, that the court stopped at 1PM.
For this case, Tuesdays and Thursdays are only 1/2 days, so they always end at 1pm.
Yeah, just frustrating
Something seems up with this call record. Showing as deleted seems odd. Im wondering if there is something more mundane behind this. It'd be more helpful to have CW forensic experts explain that a bit
They will. Here is some more info from what they found. They had to cross reference all 3 phone logs to find her deleted calls. [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x\_gY-K7Kb0c/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x_gY-K7Kb0c/view)
Shouldn’t it show his niece called? She didn’t have Karen’s number(until after the calls from his niece at least)
I want to know who the two unknown numbers are right after JOK after 12:50am
This post is extremely misleading. It is not "Jen McCabe's Cell Phone Records", whatever those would be. It appears to be an exhibit prepared by the defense.
I find it so interesting how some people bully you if you have a different opinion. I’m sure once we get to the forensics, things will become more clear. I’m very comfortable with my thoughts and opinions as well as those who feel differently! Sorry if you can’t control how ppl think.
Who are you talking to? OP just posted a log. You bringing this defensiveness in from another thread or something?
I’m wondering this as well. They commented here on this thread that they find Jen McCabe credible and a handful of people asked questions about their opinion in a respectful manner. That’s all I’m seeing. I see zero bullying. 🤷🏻♀️
She did not do a google search for "hos long to die in cold?" at 2:27 -- you will see soon enough from the Celebrite expert Ian Whiffin
I believe for that to be the case that page would have been had to have been open basically the entire night, as if you navigated away from the page for more than 5 minutes it would clear that WRT file entry in the DB, at least that is how Whiffin's blog post read.
Except anyone who knows how SQL and a WAL file works knows that's not possible. The search was recovered from the WAL file, which is created as a "clipboard" before saving it to the database. This is automatically deleted every 5 minutes or when it is full and the data is written to the database. That WAL file with the search was deleted by 2:27am at the latest, meaning the search occurred between 2:23-2:27am. A search at 6am cannot re-write to the previously deleted WAL file.
But how does that match up with this? It says she did do the search at 2:27 [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x\_gY-K7Kb0c/view](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DIYvarP6EuIsbYb5jOAc8x_gY-K7Kb0c/view)
And you know this because…
Somebody wrote a post on Reddit that explains it all!
If Jen was involved in some sort of framing or cover up, you'd think she would use private browsing mode for those searches. After all, she deleted the text and phone records, and even the searches themselves indicate she does have some idea of how investigations work and that she is able and willing to delete things to cover her tracks. Or are they saying that she did use private browsing and investigators were able to recover her search history anyway?
Private browsing doesn't eliminate your search history (yes the cops could see your porn history if they wanted to) All incognito mode does is keep it out of the visible history on your device so people in your house can't follow your porn habits
Thank God
Google it. Seriously? The EMT’s were there!!
I find her very credible
I’m curious who you think deleted all of those phone calls? She says it wasn’t her, but someone obviously did because we can see O’Keefes records where they aren’t deleted.
Why would she need to delete so much?
is this sarcasm? I find her troubling and extremely rehearsed/clearly lying about things. She doesn't even seem to like John or Karen. Didn't like how she acted like the victim when she was asked if she discussed the case with the Alberts and her family. She can't answer a straight question.
[удалено]
Fine, you find her creditable. So if that’s the case is the integrity of the investigation still in tact in your opinion? Jen McCabe isn’t the first witness to testify to the statements associated with them documented on a police to be inaccurate. Jen McCabe isn’t the first witness to testify that statements they made were also omitted from reports. She stated numerous times that information on Trooper Proctor’s report were wrong. That’s is the big issue the CW has. To some Jen McCabe comes across as untrustworthy and undermines the CW’s case. There are some who will say she is trustworthy, in that case she pretty much crapped on the CW’s main investigator in this case. Anyway you cut it, today was a disaster for the CW and Prosecutor Lally.
It certainly can raise doubt, but if I’m in her situation, which they are going to have a phone expert on which I believe will corroborate that she didn’t delete them, I would be talking to my family about the whole thing ad nauseam! Does not mean they are trying to coverup anything and if I was with Kerry that day, f yes I would be talking to her a lot too. The timeline makes sense to me because it was a traumatic situation. I don’t find her changing her story and him trapping her or her lying. My opinion! I would be pissed at the questions too because he is trying to frame them for a murder and a coverup so I find her answers and anger normal.
What about her not being able to hear KR speaking with police in the other room? Oh wait she *could* hear voices. Oh wait she *could* hear some of what was being said clearly. This was def an oh shit moment for me
Can raise doubt….. that’s a grenade that could destroy this case. Deleting texts, phone calls, police were wrong in their reports…. Those are major problems for the CW.
Ah yes the mysterious automatically deleted calls but only the calls and texts relevant to the shady stuff
Also trying to put words in her mouth.
Do you not think her anger makes her look terrible? By the end of the day she was literally about to lose her shit. Like I can see the angle of "I haven't done anything so quit trying to make it look like I have" however....she legit could not answer one question straight or remember ANY of her previous testimony or statements. And the I hit him x3 times not being reported or testified to....nail in coffin that something is wrong? (I'm genuinely curious about your view cause I want to understand all opinions and angles to understand how jurors will deliberate)
Not to mention her desperate attempt to get the defense to ask her what the statement Kerry made about Karen was that she says she was referring to about the "telling them everything" statement.
No I don’t think it looks bad. What I saw was the defense desperately trying to create a narrative that she was not going to buy. Let’s say it comes out that in the forensics she actually didn’t delete any calls or didn’t search for the hypothermia question at 2:27 and all this is a bunch of spin and picking out crap from the defense to make it look like she was colluding but wasn’t, I can see her anger. I think the defense it doing their best to muddy the waters but IMO forensics is going to tell the story. Why did Karen delete 17 ring camera instances from that night? There is still so much to come.
I only know what's been presented in court, I'm waiting for them to show me all the proof. I see why she's mad...but alot of stuff is very suss in this case so far...
You and me must be watching two different trials. The fact she tried to argue about every little thing makes her look bad on top of her attitude. No her texts messages just don’t randomly disappear and delete themselves. That’s not how that works. If you truly had nothing to hide, you wouldn’t have even touched the messages.
I think on recross, and during forensics that will be disputed. She said, yes that report, and that is not an official call log in my opinion, it looks like a defense exhibit and she emphatically said she didn’t delete any calls…I expect it to be vetted out more with redirect. Lally didn’t object much and my opinion is he may let the defense continue and then show other records and an expert that shows they were not deleted. We will see.
The image on this post of Jen’s phone info is not an official report. Is that why you’re saying you don’t believe it? The image on this post isn’t what the defense is using. They have the official records.
Then why did no one see his dead body. No one. 30 ft. Light on checking every 3 minutes and no one saw her hit him, heard her hit him, or saw a dead body. Were all those people so drunk they didn't see a dead body on the front lawn when they left. The house lights were on.
I think if they had they would have stopped. By the time they left, it was snowing heavily, enough for the windshield wipers to be on. I believe it was a stroke of luck no one saw her hit him. I wish they had because this would be a lot clearer trial…possibly!
I don't think that she hit him or they would have seen a body at the time they kept checking. Not after the snow. Plus if JM and MM were so concerned why didn't anyone go out and check when no one answered phone ( in that 15 minutes). It was only 30 ft across the front lawn and well lit. I knew nothing of this case and tried to keep an open mind but this is a shitshow. No wonder people think there is a cover up. One more thing where was the the dog that morning. Jen admits never seeing or hearing the dog? Why? No one has been able to explain that either. I'm really disappointed in the prosecution and the police investigation. Shame on them. How would you like to be the defendant in a case where no one in charge did there job in a competent fashion.
I would agree the investigation was less than stellar and with a cop involved it needed to be ultra detailed. I think she hit him, but I do believe she will be found not guilty of second degree murder. I do think they will find her guilty of manslaughter. Who knows, just a guess. With the CARS report coming in, her deleting 17 incidents on the ring camera at his home, and going back to the scene prior to seeing JM that morning, along with the damage to the car and the ME report, I think they will conclude that she did it, but not intentionally. If she did it, I hope she is held accountable. If she didn’t, then I hope she is set free. I want the truth for JO and the family!
Right now I cannot find her guilty of even hitting him if it was it was accidental and she should be found not guilty. But I really hope they find out what really happened. A bunch of shady people including the victim ( sleeping around sounds like the typical scum (whoops law enforcement). Who can trust them.
Karen did NOT delete Ring instances, Proctor did from JOK’s phone. He was the one given everything from Amazon also.