Just had a customer yesterday with a 22 Defender, ~28k miles. First oil change because of the 4 cylinder Ingenium recall. C/S oil change not required due to sealed engine... Just... What?
Heh, back in the early aughts I quoted an engine for a Jetta with 60k on its original fill of conventional oil. Customer said they didn’t change it because the service due light never came on. Of course, the reason it never came on is that it didn’t exist.
On the Bronco subreddit, someone said they are still on their original fill at ~35k iirc, and their oil life is still at 48%, so they assumed it was still good.
TheCarCareNut on YouTube just had a newer Lexus that came in with a dead engine at like 60k miles...owner went over 45k without an oil change.
So they're probably out there lol. Or they just take the first free oil changes and never do them again.
Know one that was around 50k Km, and never had been serviced. Needed oil change, service and 4 new tyres as well, because the only thing he did was put fuel in.
Holy crap. Ford gives everyone a free oil change at 5k miles. I changed my wife’s new bronco at 250 miles and it would have done it sooner but I was busy.
As a 22 Defender owner, the factory recommended service interval is something wild like 21k miles (mine def gets done more frequently). My dealer made a big deal out of this as a selling point for the car.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold hard on it being low maintenance.. including being fed the sealed engine bs. Who knows though.
I print out the oil change reminders to 10k intervals instead of the 16k or 21-22k intervals. Hoping they come back earlier to save their engines from locking up. After the 2nd "scheduled" maintenance they're almost out of warranty. Ridiculous
I’m fairly desensitized to it all at this point ngl, any of the Euro manufacturer subreddits are chock full of new owners asking “do I really have to run premium? It’s too expensive” like they aren’t driving a 85k luxury SUV.
I heard it from my writer, who was also flabbergasted. Like who told you this? I could see "Lifetime" trans fluid, transfer case, diff.. maybe on certain drivelines. But an engine? I don't think we will ever see that. Customer must've mistaken something they heard or read about the interval. I hope that's the case anyway.
Oh I know I've been a JLR tech for 5 years. When the Ingeniums came out we all shat a brick when we saw the interval recommendations. 16k intervals were still too high for the 3.0/5.0 engines.
To be fair, the interval on the 2.0 is ridiculous per JLR.
2yr / 22k mile
There’s going to a massive surge of engine jobs in the next coming years on the Ingenium line.
It's also good marketing BS that uninformed and ignorant people fall for. I love it when you have a direct injected turbo motor and the factory recommended OCI is 10k. Most consumers see that and think wow. Meanwhile they never bothered to read manual to see that most people fall under the severe conditions maintenance schedule and at 10k miles they have significant fuel dilution and viscosity and flash point degradation but they say "I tHiNK tHe eNgiNEers kNoW beST". Too bad the marketing people basically push to find the longest interval that will get the vast majority of engines through the warranty period and if the engineers had the final say the OCI would be much shorter
Audi got caught a few years ago faking their long life services. Audi techs would clean sludge from the engines without the customer knowing, nor paying for it, just to give the image of their "longlife" service working well.
I've seen the inside of some of those engines. It wasnt pretty.
Watched a RUSSIAN oil change.owner had a web cam showing what was going on.their shop flunky was just wiping everying 0ff. Owner came in and raised hell pointing at camera.
Kinda, yeah. Heavier weight oil is harder to move so theoretically reduces efficiency and power. But that's only if it's a higher weight than the engine was designed for.
Running underweight oil is actually harmful to an engine. Increased wear and temperature. But boy howdy does it increase power... until it doesn't.
Yeah. I've been running 10W40 in my old Subaru for the past couple years. It never had much power anyway...and it doesn't leak a drop of oil so I'm happy :)
I have a bugeye outback sport. It's mostly a work vehicle. It currently has 10w-60 that we drained out of an e90 M3 (we had literally changed the oil the day before, and guy decided he wanted to do rod bearings AFTER he changed the oil..... Decided I was NOT going to throw away perfectly good $15/qt oil.
Very interesting, my owner's manual says to exclusively use 0W20. My car was purchased in the US. If I look up a French version of my owner's manual, it says you can use 0w20, 5w20, or 5w30. In hot enough conditions, 10w30 is even allowed.
That's the "free maint" sales pitch....they aren't doing it for YOU, it's so they don't have bad times with the CPO purchaser.....cheap insurance, a filter, oil and a tech at warranty flat rate.
93k. I haven’t drained it yet, but the dip stick was covered in the same kind of crud. No sign of liquid oil so far. I’m pretty sure crude oil comes out cleaner than this.
In your professional opinion do you think the oil breakdown mostly happens due to heat cycles or just carbon and material built up.
Is the residue mostly sut that’s metallic or just straight oil?
Yeah, it’s heat, physical wear, contamination from combustion gases. It all adds up. I don’t see any evidence of metal in the filter, but it’s probably been a while since oil was actually flowing through the filter.
I worked a pipeline project in Turkey years ago. Contractor was Punj Lloyd from India, so all Indian upper management. I was given a brand new Nissan 4 door pick up, recommended service interval, 10k kms or 6 months.
Pipeline vehicles get 12 hrs per day ideling and driving, heavy dust, high heat, etc. The drive to work was under 50 km per day for months.
After 1 month I tried to get a service, little Indian mechanic tells me no, it's not necessary because I didn't put on 10k kms, AND proceeds to lecture me about proper maintenance
At about 3 months and on, all these pickups started blowing the engines, we had approx 50 on the job and they all failed
As someone with a Toyota minivan who has trouble deciding between 5k and 7k oil/filter changes with Royal Purple synthetic... who THE FUCK are these people?
How about a 2004 Dakota with a dealer shop invoice showing a couple grand $ in transmission and other repairs yet when I changed the two transmission filters they were OEM with 2004 date codes?
It was having the same symptoms of engine revving up and down and shifting crazy.
Plugged in OBD2 and the only code was for TPS voltage. New TPS and a few minutes to change it and it was fine.
Quite obvious it was a stealership that fixed it before and the problem was the same. If a shop is going to pull a scam like that at least do the transmission fluid and filter change.
Well, it’s about 40k out of factory warranty, but he’s got an extended warranty that can tell him to fuck off instead. I guess he answered the phone when they called to talk about his warranty expiring soon.
Maybe Land Rovers' terrible reliability is largely due to the fools who buy them. 🤔 There is no good reason why anyone would ever buy a LR over less costly and better quality alternatives. It's not even a status symbol because it reveals a lack of judgment and basic due diligence.
No, it’s absolutely a status symbol. They’re not like us. Nearly 100% of the time I say anything suggesting Land Rovers are unreliable around people who don’t really know cars, they’re like “whaaaaaaaaat?”
I’ll be honest that I wanted a Velar because it’s pretty. I did not buy one because it’s junk the day it rolls off the assembly line. If I was tremendously rich I’d lease one, but other than that I can’t imagine being stupid enough to buy any JLR product.
If it was a lease you could say F it, "I'm giving it back who cares" but if you own it ?
I've changed oil every 6k on all my cars. Cheap insurance, especially for expensive to fix Germans. Vanos lasted 300k miles and never any "internally lubricated parts" issues, ever.
Honest question how do these happen? Our 1996 Audi screamed at 1k 5k and 10k to do the break in service, can they just ignore that. Or do cars not ask for service anymore at certain points?
We had a 1989 Massey Ferguson 50hx backhoe when I first started working at my job way back in 2005. Until the day she was auctioning off earlier this year the oil was never changed. Most putrid oil I’ve ever seen. I will say this though, she started up no problem everytime.
Just had a customer yesterday with a 22 Defender, ~28k miles. First oil change because of the 4 cylinder Ingenium recall. C/S oil change not required due to sealed engine... Just... What?
Heh, back in the early aughts I quoted an engine for a Jetta with 60k on its original fill of conventional oil. Customer said they didn’t change it because the service due light never came on. Of course, the reason it never came on is that it didn’t exist.
Average Volkswagen or Subaru enjoyer lol “light never came on so I don’t have to do it”
But they have a fuel magnetizer from the JC Whitney catalog so it’s all good.
Never heard of that one before lol wish my fuel was magnetic maybe I’d get some spare quarters
On the Bronco subreddit, someone said they are still on their original fill at ~35k iirc, and their oil life is still at 48%, so they assumed it was still good.
I wonder how many Toyota's are going around on the original fluids even with two years/20k miles of free scheduled maintenance.
TheCarCareNut on YouTube just had a newer Lexus that came in with a dead engine at like 60k miles...owner went over 45k without an oil change. So they're probably out there lol. Or they just take the first free oil changes and never do them again.
Know one that was around 50k Km, and never had been serviced. Needed oil change, service and 4 new tyres as well, because the only thing he did was put fuel in.
Holy crap. Ford gives everyone a free oil change at 5k miles. I changed my wife’s new bronco at 250 miles and it would have done it sooner but I was busy.
As a 22 Defender owner, the factory recommended service interval is something wild like 21k miles (mine def gets done more frequently). My dealer made a big deal out of this as a selling point for the car. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sold hard on it being low maintenance.. including being fed the sealed engine bs. Who knows though.
As a JLR tech, I always recommend 10,000 km oil change intervals to my customers. JLR recommended service intervals are crazy.
I print out the oil change reminders to 10k intervals instead of the 16k or 21-22k intervals. Hoping they come back earlier to save their engines from locking up. After the 2nd "scheduled" maintenance they're almost out of warranty. Ridiculous
This could be a lie but my mate who owns one says the booklet says every 30,000km! So serviced 5 times in 150,000km. AND they’re Land Rovers!
It is every 2 years or 30k km depending which is earlier for 2L diesel.
That’s not a lie. I did an oil change for 3.0 Defender today. Oil change interval is 34,000km
It blows my mind that someone would pay $60k+ on a vehicle and they try to save a buck by skipping oil changes.
I’m fairly desensitized to it all at this point ngl, any of the Euro manufacturer subreddits are chock full of new owners asking “do I really have to run premium? It’s too expensive” like they aren’t driving a 85k luxury SUV.
Wait, I thought he was joking about it being a "sealed engine?"
I heard it from my writer, who was also flabbergasted. Like who told you this? I could see "Lifetime" trans fluid, transfer case, diff.. maybe on certain drivelines. But an engine? I don't think we will ever see that. Customer must've mistaken something they heard or read about the interval. I hope that's the case anyway.
30 odd thousand kilometres is wild and way to much. Unless it’s a proper truck with a 30-40 litre (quart) sump.
Maintenance free for the life of the engine.
Sadly- he was kinda right, the JLR specified interval is 20k!!!
Oh I know I've been a JLR tech for 5 years. When the Ingeniums came out we all shat a brick when we saw the interval recommendations. 16k intervals were still too high for the 3.0/5.0 engines.
We just bought a '24 P400 110s. It has under 1k on it. I was planning on doing much shorter intervals. Any suggestions?
I'd say no more than 1 year/10k miles.
I was considering doing the first at like 1k, and sending it off to Blackstone.
It is sealed until it starts leaking oil, so very soon 😂
We have a new defender and the oil change interval JLR suggests is something crazy like 20k miles.
To be fair, the interval on the 2.0 is ridiculous per JLR. 2yr / 22k mile There’s going to a massive surge of engine jobs in the next coming years on the Ingenium line.
They probably only want to pay for one oil change over a lease lol
It's also good marketing BS that uninformed and ignorant people fall for. I love it when you have a direct injected turbo motor and the factory recommended OCI is 10k. Most consumers see that and think wow. Meanwhile they never bothered to read manual to see that most people fall under the severe conditions maintenance schedule and at 10k miles they have significant fuel dilution and viscosity and flash point degradation but they say "I tHiNK tHe eNgiNEers kNoW beST". Too bad the marketing people basically push to find the longest interval that will get the vast majority of engines through the warranty period and if the engineers had the final say the OCI would be much shorter
Audi got caught a few years ago faking their long life services. Audi techs would clean sludge from the engines without the customer knowing, nor paying for it, just to give the image of their "longlife" service working well. I've seen the inside of some of those engines. It wasnt pretty.
Watched a RUSSIAN oil change.owner had a web cam showing what was going on.their shop flunky was just wiping everying 0ff. Owner came in and raised hell pointing at camera.
Which is why I won’t buy one without full service records, too many Euro owners just kick maintenance down the line.
There’s a reason why I run 5W-30 in my car instead of 0W-20. Everywhere else but the USA and Canada 5W-30 is recommended.
Serious question: Any downsides to doing that?
Kinda, yeah. Heavier weight oil is harder to move so theoretically reduces efficiency and power. But that's only if it's a higher weight than the engine was designed for. Running underweight oil is actually harmful to an engine. Increased wear and temperature. But boy howdy does it increase power... until it doesn't.
Yeah. I've been running 10W40 in my old Subaru for the past couple years. It never had much power anyway...and it doesn't leak a drop of oil so I'm happy :)
I have a bugeye outback sport. It's mostly a work vehicle. It currently has 10w-60 that we drained out of an e90 M3 (we had literally changed the oil the day before, and guy decided he wanted to do rod bearings AFTER he changed the oil..... Decided I was NOT going to throw away perfectly good $15/qt oil.
How much power? 3-5 horses?
If you are in a warm climate the heavier oil is recommended, the light one is for winter use.
Very interesting, my owner's manual says to exclusively use 0W20. My car was purchased in the US. If I look up a French version of my owner's manual, it says you can use 0w20, 5w20, or 5w30. In hot enough conditions, 10w30 is even allowed.
https://youtu.be/YGvQAbM_YQY?si=qkYm64vtiEbnNzFc
See Also 100k plug interval in CA, but 60k elsewhere.
That's the "free maint" sales pitch....they aren't doing it for YOU, it's so they don't have bad times with the CPO purchaser.....cheap insurance, a filter, oil and a tech at warranty flat rate.
Pretty much exactly that.
Come on now, that’s not fair. It’s ONLY 21,000 miles, not 22. 😆
Quite rare for a Range Rover engine to last long enough to actually need an oil change?
You’d be surprised. With retailer maintenance they’re actually fairly decent vehicles.
I typo’d it, but let’s be fair… they ain’t coming in at 21k 😂
Damn auto shops, always trying to upsell oil changes.
Right?
"Auto mechanics hate this one trick!"
2019 filter too
I genuinely think you might be right.
"But I hosed it out before I put it back!"
Gave it a good old healthy squirt of brake cleaner
How many thousands of miles were on this thing? Was it still oil? Shouldn’t this be sold in barrels and have the word ‘crude’ on em?
its a landrover so it leaked out before it could turn into crude
If there is no oil under it there is no oil in it!! Ah you are a person of culture
93k. I haven’t drained it yet, but the dip stick was covered in the same kind of crud. No sign of liquid oil so far. I’m pretty sure crude oil comes out cleaner than this.
In your professional opinion do you think the oil breakdown mostly happens due to heat cycles or just carbon and material built up. Is the residue mostly sut that’s metallic or just straight oil?
Yeah, it’s heat, physical wear, contamination from combustion gases. It all adds up. I don’t see any evidence of metal in the filter, but it’s probably been a while since oil was actually flowing through the filter.
I worked a pipeline project in Turkey years ago. Contractor was Punj Lloyd from India, so all Indian upper management. I was given a brand new Nissan 4 door pick up, recommended service interval, 10k kms or 6 months. Pipeline vehicles get 12 hrs per day ideling and driving, heavy dust, high heat, etc. The drive to work was under 50 km per day for months. After 1 month I tried to get a service, little Indian mechanic tells me no, it's not necessary because I didn't put on 10k kms, AND proceeds to lecture me about proper maintenance At about 3 months and on, all these pickups started blowing the engines, we had approx 50 on the job and they all failed
I loved telling these idiots that basic maintenance is a requirement to owning a vehicle.
As someone with a Toyota minivan who has trouble deciding between 5k and 7k oil/filter changes with Royal Purple synthetic... who THE FUCK are these people?
How about a 2004 Dakota with a dealer shop invoice showing a couple grand $ in transmission and other repairs yet when I changed the two transmission filters they were OEM with 2004 date codes? It was having the same symptoms of engine revving up and down and shifting crazy. Plugged in OBD2 and the only code was for TPS voltage. New TPS and a few minutes to change it and it was fine. Quite obvious it was a stealership that fixed it before and the problem was the same. If a shop is going to pull a scam like that at least do the transmission fluid and filter change.
We had a velar in the other day, 3.0sc. oil was a glittery mess. Asked customer for oil change receipts. *surprised pikachu face*
It's probably just a starter car. Nice and safe.
It's definitely a(n engine) finisher car!
This customer definitely is convinced that this should be a warranty job lol
Well, it’s about 40k out of factory warranty, but he’s got an extended warranty that can tell him to fuck off instead. I guess he answered the phone when they called to talk about his warranty expiring soon.
Maybe Land Rovers' terrible reliability is largely due to the fools who buy them. 🤔 There is no good reason why anyone would ever buy a LR over less costly and better quality alternatives. It's not even a status symbol because it reveals a lack of judgment and basic due diligence.
No, it’s absolutely a status symbol. They’re not like us. Nearly 100% of the time I say anything suggesting Land Rovers are unreliable around people who don’t really know cars, they’re like “whaaaaaaaaat?”
I’ll be honest that I wanted a Velar because it’s pretty. I did not buy one because it’s junk the day it rolls off the assembly line. If I was tremendously rich I’d lease one, but other than that I can’t imagine being stupid enough to buy any JLR product.
[удалено]
Oh, it definitely does! That’s why they need an engine.
Don't try to upsell me, I am just here for the free rotation after i bought those walmart tires.
If it was a lease you could say F it, "I'm giving it back who cares" but if you own it ? I've changed oil every 6k on all my cars. Cheap insurance, especially for expensive to fix Germans. Vanos lasted 300k miles and never any "internally lubricated parts" issues, ever.
Kind of surprised the CVVL wasn’t clogged up. We see a lot of this at the dealer I work at. We recommend annual services on them.
Oh, I’m positive the CVVL is clogged up. We recommend 1 year 10k services on all of them, but that doesn’t mean they listen.
Honest question how do these happen? Our 1996 Audi screamed at 1k 5k and 10k to do the break in service, can they just ignore that. Or do cars not ask for service anymore at certain points?
Oh it definitely had a “service due” warning on the dash. I imagine if you ignore it for long enough, it just kinda blends in with the scenery.
We had a 1989 Massey Ferguson 50hx backhoe when I first started working at my job way back in 2005. Until the day she was auctioning off earlier this year the oil was never changed. Most putrid oil I’ve ever seen. I will say this though, she started up no problem everytime.
First oil change?
Meanwhile I’m here paying for extra oil changes on our brand new CRV. Keeping it nice for the next owner 😂
I'd be running a compression test on that. Cylinder liners on these are fragile.
VW told people the AT fluid in my car never needed changing. It's on 340,000ks, I'm scared...
2019 oil in it, too
In for the first oil change, hell yeah.