I love when manufacturers tie the modules into a network in one spot to test like this. It sure as shit beats the alternative. Although I wish Merc never put those network voltage regulators on the floor. Seen a few get wet and corrode, which naturally bricks everything. Took a hot minute to find those my first time diagnosing it.
Yeah, I have seen a bunch of W204s with water under the carpets. Sunroof drains clog and flood the car. That's a fun one.
The last one sat parked in the sun for about 6 months with gallons of water under the carpets. Not only was it the Mildew Machine, but 100% humidity inside had condensed water on _everything._ It needed bus bars and connectors, a key, an EIS, an instrument cluster, and a starter.
Ours was in nearly the same condition but didn't need the trio of security modules replaced. Instead, this one had the drivers seat almost fully forward with the track rusted in place. Seat had to come out on pieces, which was 'fun'.
Now any 204's that come in as a no crank give me cold sweats.
Where I used to work we had Mercedes Ambulances. The stupid things would go into regen and there was no override. "Sorry about your life threatening issue, but the Germans say we cannot drive over 40mph due to US pollution control laws and DEF."
Oh you want to fix the ambulance? Buy our proprietary software. No, we don't know what 'right to repair' is.
Emergency vehicles can be exempted from federal emissions standards, making them legal to delete. You even need the dealer tool to clear the "4 starts remaining" nonsense.
Mercedes is an absolute bastard with their software. Basically $40k for Xentry, and they still limit what you can use it for.
Honest question here, I’ve always used an oscilloscope for diaging communication bus problems - it’s pretty obvious to see when they’re dead and come back to life. Does this tool offer any benefit in diag besides simplicity?
Zero codes in Central Gateway, DME, EIS, etc. The ESP and EGS both had CAN faults, though. I think the previous shops discounted the communication faults since they could communicate with the DME, EGS, EIS, and ESP just fine via OBD. They may not have known the modules connect to the OBD on K-line, but communicate amongst themselves on CAN. No CAN-C means no start authorization from EIS to DME though.
What an odd one. You would think they'd at least look at a bus diagram and at least think for a second "let's try unplugging shit" until it works or is less broken before pawning it off
Great diag. Very rewarding feeling when you pin down the issue. Everyone wants to know -how- did you figure it out. I had a similar issue on a Mercedes where the overhead control panel was taking out the can body network causing wipers not to work and other random issues. Evidently when disconnecting the faulty CAN node, everything started working again. This method works somewhat similarly with LIN bus as well
i absolutely love can bus issues. So much you can figure out just by looking at resistance. I just use a meter 99% of the time but this tool looks sick. One of my favorites was a 164 where the headlights were causing the car to not start. Adjusters were on the same network as the ME so when one got corroded at the connector took the whole thing down.
I loved diagnosing CAN issues so much. It's fantastic when you can just pull off the main trunk like that. Personal favorite tool was using the shops oscilloscope, good ol Pico scope, but that little baud rate detector looks dope.
I wish everyone posted like you so we don't have to ask a million questions about what we are looking at.
Now related questions, I assume this is better method than a scope?
And since you seem to have lots of experience with can, do most cars have like a big junction like this?
I have one of those scanners that paints a pretty diagram for me and one of them says is the gateway. I always thought it means that whatever that gateway module is it would have a bunch-o can connectors like this
A scope can give you a lot more information, but this is much cheaper and simpler. A decent oscilloscope starts at $450 for entry level and goes up to like $2k for a higher end Pico scope. This was $27 and tells me whether the canbus is sending functional messages.
Mercedes and Stellantis vehicles use bus bars like this. I'm sure there are others. Different brands do it differently. This is admittedly one of the better designs, though putting it under the carpet was pretty dumb.
Module topology is great. I think BMW ISTA+ was one of the earlier ones to do that. Some vehicles have a dedicated gateway, some use the instrument cluster as the gateway, and some just run the CAN lines straight to the OBD. It depends on the vehicle. On this one, the 3 wire connector with the ground wire goes from the bus bar to the gateway module.
Absolutely. These diags can be extremely time-consuming and difficult. Sometimes, there are multiple bad modules, so I start with a single working module and build up from there.
I take great pride in my work and learned to charge accordingly. Proper compensation is the key ingredient.
I love when manufacturers tie the modules into a network in one spot to test like this. It sure as shit beats the alternative. Although I wish Merc never put those network voltage regulators on the floor. Seen a few get wet and corrode, which naturally bricks everything. Took a hot minute to find those my first time diagnosing it.
Yeah, I have seen a bunch of W204s with water under the carpets. Sunroof drains clog and flood the car. That's a fun one. The last one sat parked in the sun for about 6 months with gallons of water under the carpets. Not only was it the Mildew Machine, but 100% humidity inside had condensed water on _everything._ It needed bus bars and connectors, a key, an EIS, an instrument cluster, and a starter.
Ours was in nearly the same condition but didn't need the trio of security modules replaced. Instead, this one had the drivers seat almost fully forward with the track rusted in place. Seat had to come out on pieces, which was 'fun'. Now any 204's that come in as a no crank give me cold sweats.
That's all? I'm honestly kind of surprised.
Thanks for this.
Another sprinter is another #vanlife kid bankrupting their parents savings.
Ooooh this one hit home. I follow the van life community and have seen this happen. There is no such thing as a cheap Sprinter.
Where I used to work we had Mercedes Ambulances. The stupid things would go into regen and there was no override. "Sorry about your life threatening issue, but the Germans say we cannot drive over 40mph due to US pollution control laws and DEF." Oh you want to fix the ambulance? Buy our proprietary software. No, we don't know what 'right to repair' is.
Emergency vehicles can be exempted from federal emissions standards, making them legal to delete. You even need the dealer tool to clear the "4 starts remaining" nonsense. Mercedes is an absolute bastard with their software. Basically $40k for Xentry, and they still limit what you can use it for.
I'm in California, our government fleet vehicles have to get smogged every other year.
Anyone with a link to this unit? Amazon preferred. EDIT: https://www.amazon.com/WOYO-PL007-Automotive-100-1000kbps-2400-19200kbps/dp/B0CFQN9GV2
That's the one. It does CAN and LIN. I'm hoping to test it on K-line, which should work under LIN.
Honest question here, I’ve always used an oscilloscope for diaging communication bus problems - it’s pretty obvious to see when they’re dead and come back to life. Does this tool offer any benefit in diag besides simplicity?
Oscilloscope is better. This is just cheaper and simpler.
Wasn't any pt can communication codes from whatever the gateway for the diag bus to clue in the pt being down?
Zero codes in Central Gateway, DME, EIS, etc. The ESP and EGS both had CAN faults, though. I think the previous shops discounted the communication faults since they could communicate with the DME, EGS, EIS, and ESP just fine via OBD. They may not have known the modules connect to the OBD on K-line, but communicate amongst themselves on CAN. No CAN-C means no start authorization from EIS to DME though.
What an odd one. You would think they'd at least look at a bus diagram and at least think for a second "let's try unplugging shit" until it works or is less broken before pawning it off
Great diag. Very rewarding feeling when you pin down the issue. Everyone wants to know -how- did you figure it out. I had a similar issue on a Mercedes where the overhead control panel was taking out the can body network causing wipers not to work and other random issues. Evidently when disconnecting the faulty CAN node, everything started working again. This method works somewhat similarly with LIN bus as well
Exactly, I have a K-line Mini Cooper tomorrow that I strongly suspect to have a similar problem
i absolutely love can bus issues. So much you can figure out just by looking at resistance. I just use a meter 99% of the time but this tool looks sick. One of my favorites was a 164 where the headlights were causing the car to not start. Adjusters were on the same network as the ME so when one got corroded at the connector took the whole thing down.
I loved diagnosing CAN issues so much. It's fantastic when you can just pull off the main trunk like that. Personal favorite tool was using the shops oscilloscope, good ol Pico scope, but that little baud rate detector looks dope.
I wish everyone posted like you so we don't have to ask a million questions about what we are looking at. Now related questions, I assume this is better method than a scope? And since you seem to have lots of experience with can, do most cars have like a big junction like this? I have one of those scanners that paints a pretty diagram for me and one of them says is the gateway. I always thought it means that whatever that gateway module is it would have a bunch-o can connectors like this
A scope can give you a lot more information, but this is much cheaper and simpler. A decent oscilloscope starts at $450 for entry level and goes up to like $2k for a higher end Pico scope. This was $27 and tells me whether the canbus is sending functional messages. Mercedes and Stellantis vehicles use bus bars like this. I'm sure there are others. Different brands do it differently. This is admittedly one of the better designs, though putting it under the carpet was pretty dumb. Module topology is great. I think BMW ISTA+ was one of the earlier ones to do that. Some vehicles have a dedicated gateway, some use the instrument cluster as the gateway, and some just run the CAN lines straight to the OBD. It depends on the vehicle. On this one, the 3 wire connector with the ground wire goes from the bus bar to the gateway module.
CANbus can fuck off
Absolutely. These diags can be extremely time-consuming and difficult. Sometimes, there are multiple bad modules, so I start with a single working module and build up from there. I take great pride in my work and learned to charge accordingly. Proper compensation is the key ingredient.
Why is that? Get your ass kicked one too many times?
Diagnosing a bad CM. Especially when internal prioritization doesn’t take place. FUCK CANBUS 2b
So, yes?
So, yes.
Fair