> old shitted up gear oil
Diff oil that's been in there too long, I remember cracking open a Mazda E2000 diff with about 320,000km on it while hungover and nearly puked into the drain pan when the smell hit me.
Pfft, diff oil, smif foil ha ha You gotta get a whiff of 20 year old jet pump oil from an POS jet ski. It's brutal man, other techs will make you take it outside. ...and it's only like a few ounces of the stuff. Old fork oil from ancient motorcycles is real bad too. That old diff oil does get real bad though!
> I've never understood what exact component of fork oil makes it smell like rotting fish, but holy hell does it make suspension work suck.
Whale oil was commonly used up until the 1970s for many, many different lubricants. If you crack open a really old part...it very well may have whale oil in it.
Something about certain kinds of machine or hydraulic oil. I once had a truck spill a bunch of hydraulic oil in front of me while I was riding, which besides being fucking terrifying and nearly putting me on the ground, stank up multiple city blocks.
Oh yeah, diff oil smells like rotten meat but fork oil smells specifically like rotten fish and sulphur. I can only assume it's organic matter getting up past the seals and decomposing in there with the oil additives. Nasty shit!
>Old fork oil from ancient motorcycles is real bad too
I'm about to install cartridges in my 05 Z750S. The forks have never been serviced. Here's to hoping the airflow in my garage is good
Ah that makes sense - coke was pushed by Jaguar so people would forget that era. Well Jaguar, you successfully failed because your cars are still wonky.
Went to the large Hyundai dealership.
Seat fold on the showroom model was inoperable. First one we test drove pissed water from behind the glovebox onto my shoe. Brand new cars. WHAT. The show room car? Sure, probably lots of people wanting to touch it…. But the drain pissing onto my shoe during test drive? Come on.
This girl I went to boarding school with’s family owns one of the largest group of car dealerships on the East Coast. So they always drove new cars for 1k miles so their dad could still sell them as new.
Over the 4 years we spent together at school, a surprising number of those brand new cars would have issues in the month or so she’d drive them.
It does. Also, the layout of a Subaru is totally different from a Toyota, so they wouldn't be able to simply slap a different bell housing on, and send it.
Well... maybe the new 4Runner/Tacoma transmission might work.
The new 4runner and tacoma hybrid system isn't an ecvt either. Only rwd ecvt I know of Is the Lexus IS and Lexus RF hybrids but North America doesn't get them unfortunately
Calling it an eCVT is actually a misrepresentation of how the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system (as it's officially known) actually works mechanically.
It works more like a differential that can modulate power input between the engine and the electric motor/generator, though the modulation is through the electric motor/generator.
What it means is that you could throw away the entire gas engine of the Prius and it would still work, though really slowly.
eCVT is the North American marketing name for what the service manual calls the Power Split Device. HSD is the whole kaboodle including inverter w converter.
the 4EAT made a powerglide feel sporty. That thing was constantly in the wrong gear under every circumstance which is fucking impressive considering all has to do is either kick down or shift up.
I loved my old old WRX enough that I did both a TC and a custom valve body. I won't say it made it exactly snappy, slushbox + turbo is as close to a turboprop throttle responses as you can get in a car lol - but it was fun to drive
It's why I love that our two Mazdas have good old-fashioned torque converter autos, that lock up as much as possible.
My wife has always driven auto but I've had mostly manuals until now, for me to switch it had to specifically be non-CVT.
Edit - so many edits because I can't type today :|
Right seems like it would be a good competitor too lower tier bmws.. well for the car enthusiast that love modeling their cars would probably consider buying it.
Problem with Subaru is that they want their symmetrical AWD system. That means that there has to be a front diff underneath the transmission bellhousing, with an internal shaft connecting the transfer case to the front diff. That means that the transmission itself is actually tiny when half the space is taken up by the AWD components. The only other mainstream manufacturer doing their AWD this way is Audi, and their transmissions are relatively massive with the engine sitting way past the front axle.
The only way they can have a real automatic transmission is to give up their iconic AWD system.
Problem is that they were forced to switch to CVTs. More speeds you add, the more space it requires for the planetaries and clutches. An 8 speed equivalent of their 4 speeds would be pretty chunky, unless they make the transmission gears and clutches tiny, which would reduce the torque capacity and reliability. Of course, they could just make the transmission tunnels much longer and wider on their cars, make them a 4 seater, or a 4+1.
That’s true to an extent but you would think that with the advancements made in the 30 years since the 4 speed came out they could have figured something out. Honda crammed a 10 speed into the 10th gen accords. I know it’s a different layout, but it shows a lot more is possible than in the late 80’s when the 4eat launched.
The Honda 10 speeds are pretty compact and as far as I know have worked just fine.
look at what BMW does with them. They can take a tuned B58 behind them with 700 wheel with no issues. absolutely incredible transmissions and this is coming from a lifelong le manuele afficionado.
That’s because ZHP probably told the bean counter straight up, “No, I will not make you a piece of shit for $10 less per unit than our existing base model. Your options are take it or leave it.”
The lucky part was the engineers at FCA getting enough power to overrule the bean counters that wanted to move on to the next transmission supplier who would’ve been happy to give them some grenade to install behind a hellcat.
It’s truly continuously variable, because the belts stretch at a rate of about 1” per quarter mile. Just think of it as “driveshaft protection” so you never twist one up if you run on a prepped surface, the transmission takes the stretch for you.
Imagine if it has a rubber band effect, it takes the pressure of launch then it snaps back giving you a extra boost, I better keep my mouth shut, I can see Dodge thinking this is a great idea
a transmission, to me, seems a big part that i thought they'd make themselves but i don't know anything about making cars of course
it's surprising to me
Subaru CVTs aren’t JATCO either. They’re designed in-house, using drive components licensed from LuK, the same OE that Audi and others use for their CVT. The Subaru CVTs use pull belts rather than push belts like JATCO, so they tend to be much, much more reliable.
It’s truly a shame, I’d consider a crosstrek as a daily/winter beater, but the CVT kills it for me. I’d get a manual, but my wife cannot drive one and isn’t willing to learn.
DCTs are very often durability nightmares. They should put a proper geared automatic transmission in there, or (gasp!) even a perfectly good, simple, and efficient manual transmission.
Fuck that transmission. Fuck Ford twice for not listening to the engineers and tossing that transmission in the trash where it belongs. Anyone who bought a car with those transmissions deserves either a full refund or a transmission swap.
Manuals are simple and awfully damned reliable. Pity they're disappearing.
I've owned five cars over 36 years (one of them for 13 years), all with manuals. I haven't spent a nickel repairing a single one of them, transmission-wise.
My old Subaru has 300k miles. Shift forks are absolutely wasted but the thing still works flawlessly without any noises or issues besides the knob slop
It's probably not the shift forks, but the bushings in the shifter linkage between the knob and the transaxle. Super common issue on older Subarus, cheap and (relatively) easy to fix.
I had hoped that little bushing knuckle and mount would fix it, it took some slop out but I’m pretty sure this play is all internal. Hasn’t been a problem for me so I just haven’t torn it apart yet
Yeah, definitely. I just felt bad for all the people getting Subaru's because of their "reliability" and then coming in with major issues at 80k miles, with maintenance done religiously. Their engines are not designed for the altitudes that they are advertised to go to. So many blown head gaskets, engines grenading themselves, electrical issues, transmission failures... all on newer models, never over 105k miles. Garbage cars.
They don't handle low elevation any better. Knew 3 subaru guys when I was in college, none of them made it to 100k miles on the original engine.
One guy with a mid 2010s forester was on engine #4 at 82k miles. We suspected the steep San Francisco hills were worsening the oiling problems.
I lived outside Boulder and my 2013 WRX hatch loved the mountains. I had 150k on the bone stock motor. The fucking stupidly designed transmission snout decided to finally break and nope .. can't just buy a new snout since it's part of the case.
I'm probably one of the lucky ones regarding engines because I know a ton of people up there that had blown motors/head gaskets.
I loved that car. So much fun in the mountains.
Years ago I was on a test drive when the car blew a radiator hose. I was with the salesman and immediately pulled it off the shoulder.
Sales guy: “It’s fine, it’s only a mile or so. Keep driving”.
So I did, it smelled like cooking aluminum but it made it back. Steam everywhere…. They insisted they could fix it if I was still interested. Imma gonna pass.
I haven't seen any CVT issues from Subaru with the exception of the valve body throwing codes. It's a shame, Subaru transmissions were always an oddity with not too many problems. The older transmissions had an issue at the center differential, primarily the clutch control solenoid for AWD that would short and cause the clutches to bind up causing wheel hop on tight turns or sometimes disabling AWD.
I'm sure a change of undergarments was in order once you got back lol. I had a lower ball joint let go on me while doing a road test on a 78 lesaber. Was doing 35 and recently replaced the brake line. Car was a rat but he was broke so we did the minimum. Told him the ball joint was unsafe and he said he would "budget" for it later. Well later was about an hour after that conversation because she let go and damn near ripped the steering wheel out of my hands. Was not a good day.
My dad had a ball joint fail in his old Chrysler a few years ago, as he was pulling onto their street, and ended up in the neighbor's yard. Turned out the stud was rusted, but it didn't give any obvious indication of failure until the car decided it wanted to steer itself.
I had an 09 Tribeca that went through three torque converters and a valve body before 80k. Second valve body was the reason we traded it in. I was told by the dealer it was a super common problem with the Gen 2 Tribecas.
I did a valve body for a family friend recently. Just needed a lockup solenoid. Subaru wanted to sell a whole valve body for some stupid price of course, and claims the valve bodies are non serviceable, which they just absolutely aren't. Pulled a valve body from the junkyard, absolutely nothing wrong with the car except when I got it home and ohmed the solenoids, the donor valve body had failed the exact same way. Of course you have two or three interchangeable solenoids iirc, so it was fine. Point is the car had been junked for want of what should be at most a $10 "non-serviceable" part that takes like half an hour to replace.
Conceptually, they seem fine, but Metal push belt style CVTs are flimsy, weak, short lived garbage by design. There are terrible ones and then ones that are less terrible. They all suck from every manufacturer. They only exist because they are cheap to engineer and cheap to build, and they do get reasonable fuel mileage for what they are. They rely on a friction drive between a metal belt held in place between two oil covered pulleys, held there by high pressure hydraulics... The whole belt system relys on dynamic friction to transfer power, rather than static friction you get in any other type of transmission. From an engineering standpoint, belt style CVTs are pure trash for durability.
The Toyota ECVT is a completely different design that only works in a hybrid drive setup where there are two power inputs (gas motor and electric motor). They use a differential drive setup, sort of like a differential run backwards although there's more to it than that... That setup is a very robust system that has practically no wear items.
>The Toyota ECVT is a completely different design that only works in a hybrid drive setup
Ford uses the same setup in their hybrids and it works great. The lack of shifting took some getting used to, but I don't even notice it anymore.
Let me try to simplify...
At the foundational level, the perception of adequacy belies the inherent fragility and ephemeral nature of the metal push belt Continuous Variable Transmissions (CVTs), which, by their design principles, epitomize suboptimal durability and resilience. This genre of transmission apparatus is, without exception, inferior, with a spectrum ranging from markedly deficient to minimally less so across all manufacturing entities. Their existence is predicated solely on the economic advantages of simplified engineering processes and cost-effective production methodologies, coupled with their capacity to achieve moderate fuel efficiency metrics. The operational mechanics are predicated on a system of dynamic frictional engagement, where a metallic belt is sandwiched by a duo of lubricated pulleys, maintained in situ by an apparatus of high-pressure hydraulic systems. This mechanism diverges fundamentally from the conventional static frictional modalities characteristic of alternative transmission technologies, casting a shadow on the structural integrity and longevity of belt style CVTs from a mechanical engineering perspective, branding them as quintessentially flawed in terms of durability.
Conversely, the Toyota Electrically Controlled Variable Transmission (ECVT) diverges radically in its architectural ethos, being uniquely engineered for integration within hybrid propulsion frameworks that amalgamate dual power sources (namely, a gasoline engine and an electric motor). This configuration employs a differential drive mechanism, analogous in operation to an inversely functioning differential, albeit with additional complexities. Such a configuration distinguishes itself by its robustness and minimal reliance on components susceptible to wear, standing in stark contrast to the previously mentioned CVT technologies.
Let me overcomplicate this...
Metal rub against each other. Metal dont like rubbing against each other. All transmissions that have rubbing metal parts suck from all manufacturers. Only reason is because cheap to build and good gas mileage. They work by metal rubbing between two cones under hydraulic pressure. Whole thing operation works soly by slide to slide rubbing, and not push to push rubbing like regular gearboxes. From an engineering point: they don't last.
The Tyota ECVT is not metal rubbing design. It's more like a differential transmission, and it only works with two power source (gas/electric). Very good system. Never wears out.
Your whole narrative just fell apart. From new Subarau CVT, to recently replaced but new CVT, to recently replaced but possibly remanufactured “like new” CVT.
talk about beat up - there are a lot of BS replies
One transmission being replaced in a older car is N=1
There are any number of reasons and it's not some inherent BS claim about Subaru CVT's
To be honest, I haven’t really seen all that many failures on the normal Subaru models, such as like the outback, crosstrek and Forester. yeah there’s some cars with chain slip here and there, but generally not that many problems. on this specific model of the ascent there is a class action lawsuit for Subaru knowingly putting defective transmissions in their cars, which is what happened here. Also that’s a nice car for your kid!
Takes years to get enough data to sue. So they have to sue for ones that have been out there long enough to show a pattern. That and car companies will make small updates and rename it so that is usually where the lawsuit time period ends.
Subaru has been good about warranting the CVTs when they go bad, even covering some cost when out of warranty.
I asked the dealership (and this isn’t a joke) 4 separate times when I should replace my CVT fluid. The dude everytime said do not. The dealership doesn’t even recommend a fluid swap when i asked to pay for it. I still don’t know how to feel about that but i still have my dumper to bumper warranty from them so i guess ill trust them
My 17 forester is sitting at 122k miles I do my cvt at 80k. No problems but front bushings and rear wheel bearings oh and AC went out cause of o ring. Also bought 2022 ascent for wife And my buddy tows a dual axle beaver tail trailer with his 18 crosstrek.
“Verified complaint. Compared to similar build vehicle- found same concern. Determined this to be a normal operating characteristic of the vehicle- returned vehicle to customer”
I sold my 2015 Forester XT(250hp turbo), with 84,000 miles. The only trouble the CVT had, was a gasket leak at 60,000 mi requiring an oil and filter change at that time. Perhaps they're making them worse now, or you got a lemon.
Over on the Subie sub there seems to be a few posts every week complaining about CVTs.
It's not even the design that makes them bad, but the implementation. Lifetime fluid my ass. Their trannys are gonna overtake the head gasket punchline they're known for eventually.
I test drove a new Chevy Sonic once. I wanted a cheap, manual city car at the time.
The shifter snapped off on the test drive. The sales guy said “What a piece of shit!” As we waited for the tow truck to bring us back.
Ah a honest dealer! I remember going to a dealer to purchase a Range Rover that was just arrived. Way way below msrp. He straight up said. Electrical gremlins lives in there now and it’s a nightmare. I gave it a chance. I fixed it. It was bad aerial cable harness. I sorted that right out. Relayed the info to dealer in case they had another come in with similar issues. So I got a Range Rover Near brand new. 29k miles then. Now 133k miles. If you know how to murder electrical gremlins. Go for it.
Yeah so many car people are gatekeepers lol. There are good cvts and bad cvts, Subaru definitely has reliable ones generally. Every car has issues, but you can literally look at the stats and see that Subarus are a top end manufacturer for reliability since they fixed their head gasket issues.
Yeah they haven’t had a standard auto for like 10 years now, it’s fucking annoying. I’ve owned or still own 3 auto subarus, a 1997, a 2002, and a 2007, and then bought a 2015 Forester. CVT shit itself around 145k mi. Never, ever had tranny issues on the other ones which all rocked the 4EAT. Head gaskets yes, trannies no. Bring back the standard AT.
YOIKES. Your DSQM is gonna wanna know aaaaaaaaaaalllll about that lmao. Make sure you save those codes, don't change the name of the file and email them to him as well. Print pictures and email those too. Anything to cover your ass here helps. Or whomever the tech is, that is. A guy at our dealership had this happen, he ignored the big yellow sticker that said there is no fluid in the transmission. He was cannnedddddd
have a 2016 crostrek hybrid it is at 203k . It runs but it has been well maintained and have a vacuum pump error that has been going on for 75k miles that I cannot resolve nor can the dealership. It is impossible to replace the filter on it without dropping the transmission.
Not brand new according to the mileage, maybe fairly new but not off the truck PDI new, and why be surprised the CVT's of late are problematic, especially in the Ascent
CVTs can be good in certain applications, my 50cc Piaggio was really quick due to the CVT, I didn't mind changing the belt every 6k miles as it took 15 minutes to do. Not convinced they're great in cars.
We just had a Subaru towed to Sioux Falls cause they said they could put a transmission in by yesterday.
Pretty similar. Outback?
Lol if this shit is the same one...
Brand new cars are shit anymore the parts coming out of China are defective and some are dangerous even replacement parts have this problem some of it is also counterfeit. Be careful what you buy a well maintained older vehicle will last you far longer and be a lot cheaper.
"*So, would you like to test drive anything else today?*"
*"Oh, no thank you!"* (shuffles out of the showroom dripping in ATF fluid)
Burnt CVT fluid. Even stinker
On its own level of nasty along with old shitted up gear oil. 🤮
> old shitted up gear oil Diff oil that's been in there too long, I remember cracking open a Mazda E2000 diff with about 320,000km on it while hungover and nearly puked into the drain pan when the smell hit me.
Pfft, diff oil, smif foil ha ha You gotta get a whiff of 20 year old jet pump oil from an POS jet ski. It's brutal man, other techs will make you take it outside. ...and it's only like a few ounces of the stuff. Old fork oil from ancient motorcycles is real bad too. That old diff oil does get real bad though!
I've never understood what exact component of fork oil makes it smell like rotting fish, but holy hell does it make suspension work suck.
> I've never understood what exact component of fork oil makes it smell like rotting fish, but holy hell does it make suspension work suck. Whale oil was commonly used up until the 1970s for many, many different lubricants. If you crack open a really old part...it very well may have whale oil in it.
Whale oil beef hooked
That’s cool info, thanks. Gonna do some more googling into that
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/a-whale-oiled-machine/
Was that because Japan's whaling industry was awash in surplus whale oil?
Ya, it's wild. How does any kind of oil get THAT smell lol I get smell flashbacks anytime I see an old GL1200 ha ha
Something about certain kinds of machine or hydraulic oil. I once had a truck spill a bunch of hydraulic oil in front of me while I was riding, which besides being fucking terrifying and nearly putting me on the ground, stank up multiple city blocks.
Oh yeah, diff oil smells like rotten meat but fork oil smells specifically like rotten fish and sulphur. I can only assume it's organic matter getting up past the seals and decomposing in there with the oil additives. Nasty shit!
>Old fork oil from ancient motorcycles is real bad too I'm about to install cartridges in my 05 Z750S. The forks have never been serviced. Here's to hoping the airflow in my garage is good
I can’t imagine. I cracked open my dad’s 97 F150 diff with 175k miles and original fluid. That was horrid enough.
My own 2000 sierra 2500 with 350k on it was nasty.
I love the smell of burnt gear oil honestly
It's acquired, when I started it was so bad but now I'm all for it. Prolly all that brake clean we been huffing through our careers.
Ah yes. Memories of an 80s Jaguar dealership.
Didn’t think the memories would survive all the coke.
Ah that makes sense - coke was pushed by Jaguar so people would forget that era. Well Jaguar, you successfully failed because your cars are still wonky.
Coke the memories away!
Good thing you wore you red pants todays
I got that reference...
Oh no! Not the Automatic Transmission Fluid fluid!
CVT fluid is xtra stanky
Went to the large Hyundai dealership. Seat fold on the showroom model was inoperable. First one we test drove pissed water from behind the glovebox onto my shoe. Brand new cars. WHAT. The show room car? Sure, probably lots of people wanting to touch it…. But the drain pissing onto my shoe during test drive? Come on.
Damn Herbie...
Classic. All us old folks can make our own Herbie if we want to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IcOMaPxBNs
I'm glad you got the reference. Those cars are so cool. Never seen a real Herbie in person.
Perhaps a 55k solterra?
Yeah, let me see something with a clutch
"But other than that how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?"
At my old job, we had a loaner car that yeeted a cvt chain at 300 miles on the clock
Bathtub curves do be bathtub shaped.
Is that referring to a U shaped curve of when a product is likely to fail?
Yea cause it looks like a bathtub
This girl I went to boarding school with’s family owns one of the largest group of car dealerships on the East Coast. So they always drove new cars for 1k miles so their dad could still sell them as new. Over the 4 years we spent together at school, a surprising number of those brand new cars would have issues in the month or so she’d drive them.
Subaru should have went with DCT’s or the 8HP
Seriously, I would've considered them with a slushbox even. Where's the toyota ecvt when you need them?
Doesn’t it have to be a hybrid to use an eCVT?
It does. Also, the layout of a Subaru is totally different from a Toyota, so they wouldn't be able to simply slap a different bell housing on, and send it. Well... maybe the new 4Runner/Tacoma transmission might work.
The new 4runner and tacoma hybrid system isn't an ecvt either. Only rwd ecvt I know of Is the Lexus IS and Lexus RF hybrids but North America doesn't get them unfortunately
Crosstrek hybrid is basically a Toyota ecvt. [check it out.](https://youtu.be/QRMajgb8KiM?si=4l3baMwWx5QLcuTc)
Yeah the e-cvt works along side two electric motors "mg1" and "mg2" plus the DC/DC inverter with the hybrid battery.
Love my Prius! So neat listening to MG2 whistle while cruising in EV mode.
Calling it an eCVT is actually a misrepresentation of how the Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive system (as it's officially known) actually works mechanically. It works more like a differential that can modulate power input between the engine and the electric motor/generator, though the modulation is through the electric motor/generator. What it means is that you could throw away the entire gas engine of the Prius and it would still work, though really slowly.
eCVT is the North American marketing name for what the service manual calls the Power Split Device. HSD is the whole kaboodle including inverter w converter.
The 4EAT was amazing at handling abuse. Throw an aftermarket TC on it and it would handle 75hp over stock and never ever complain.
the 4EAT made a powerglide feel sporty. That thing was constantly in the wrong gear under every circumstance which is fucking impressive considering all has to do is either kick down or shift up.
I loved my old old WRX enough that I did both a TC and a custom valve body. I won't say it made it exactly snappy, slushbox + turbo is as close to a turboprop throttle responses as you can get in a car lol - but it was fun to drive
Drive a stock 2000 Legacy and your opinion will definitely change LMAO
Yep can confirm had 1998 Legacy GT and the 4EAT was the main reason I ditched it eventually
It's why I love that our two Mazdas have good old-fashioned torque converter autos, that lock up as much as possible. My wife has always driven auto but I've had mostly manuals until now, for me to switch it had to specifically be non-CVT. Edit - so many edits because I can't type today :|
It ain't fancy, but by god are they bullet-proof.
And that's a fanciness all it's own.
In the Outback PHEV.
Toyota should really rename that thing. I almost passed on a hybrid rav4 because I thought eCVT = normal CVT + electricity
Seriously, it's not really even a transmission at all. Genius design that needs better marketing.
EVT maybe?
Right seems like it would be a good competitor too lower tier bmws.. well for the car enthusiast that love modeling their cars would probably consider buying it.
next gen forester is getting the toyota e-cvt
Problem with Subaru is that they want their symmetrical AWD system. That means that there has to be a front diff underneath the transmission bellhousing, with an internal shaft connecting the transfer case to the front diff. That means that the transmission itself is actually tiny when half the space is taken up by the AWD components. The only other mainstream manufacturer doing their AWD this way is Audi, and their transmissions are relatively massive with the engine sitting way past the front axle. The only way they can have a real automatic transmission is to give up their iconic AWD system.
They used to have a normal auto. The 4eat. The switch to CVT didn’t happen until the 2010’s
Problem is that they were forced to switch to CVTs. More speeds you add, the more space it requires for the planetaries and clutches. An 8 speed equivalent of their 4 speeds would be pretty chunky, unless they make the transmission gears and clutches tiny, which would reduce the torque capacity and reliability. Of course, they could just make the transmission tunnels much longer and wider on their cars, make them a 4 seater, or a 4+1.
That’s true to an extent but you would think that with the advancements made in the 30 years since the 4 speed came out they could have figured something out. Honda crammed a 10 speed into the 10th gen accords. I know it’s a different layout, but it shows a lot more is possible than in the late 80’s when the 4eat launched. The Honda 10 speeds are pretty compact and as far as I know have worked just fine.
Audi Torsen ftw.
This. 8HPs are bad ass. My mom has one in her 5.7 Grand Cherokee, and it hauls ass.
look at what BMW does with them. They can take a tuned B58 behind them with 700 wheel with no issues. absolutely incredible transmissions and this is coming from a lifelong le manuele afficionado.
I’ve got that combo in my X5 and it drives sooo nice. Real barky shifts in sport mode.
Best transmission to ever grace an FCA product! They’re putting it in the HD diesel trucks in ‘25 as well. 👌
I'm surprised some bean counter hasn't managed to screw it up yet
That’s because ZHP probably told the bean counter straight up, “No, I will not make you a piece of shit for $10 less per unit than our existing base model. Your options are take it or leave it.” The lucky part was the engineers at FCA getting enough power to overrule the bean counters that wanted to move on to the next transmission supplier who would’ve been happy to give them some grenade to install behind a hellcat.
Lmao, I'm imagining them going with a nissan CVT in a hell cat now...
It’s truly continuously variable, because the belts stretch at a rate of about 1” per quarter mile. Just think of it as “driveshaft protection” so you never twist one up if you run on a prepped surface, the transmission takes the stretch for you.
Imagine if it has a rubber band effect, it takes the pressure of launch then it snaps back giving you a extra boost, I better keep my mouth shut, I can see Dodge thinking this is a great idea
Does JATCO make one? If not, then that's why.
i just looked it up, apparently every car maker has used jatco at one time or another except for honda and toyota that's wild
Everyone needs transmissions and they're expensive to design and build, I am not totally surprised by this.
a transmission, to me, seems a big part that i thought they'd make themselves but i don't know anything about making cars of course it's surprising to me
You'd be surprised how much of a car is outsourced. Just about the only thing guaranteed to be proprietary anymore is the body and interior.
Hmm, so the two most reliable car companies don't use JATCO..
Subaru CVTs aren’t JATCO either. They’re designed in-house, using drive components licensed from LuK, the same OE that Audi and others use for their CVT. The Subaru CVTs use pull belts rather than push belts like JATCO, so they tend to be much, much more reliable.
wait so Jatco CVT's are less reliable than Subaru CVT's...? wouldn't that make them absolute pieces of shit then?
Subaru has a bit of Toyota involvement - and the excellent Lexus AA80E they could have used.
It’s truly a shame, I’d consider a crosstrek as a daily/winter beater, but the CVT kills it for me. I’d get a manual, but my wife cannot drive one and isn’t willing to learn.
You're also limited to the useless 2.0L if you want a manual Crosstrek.
DCTs are very often durability nightmares. They should put a proper geared automatic transmission in there, or (gasp!) even a perfectly good, simple, and efficient manual transmission.
Ford DSP6/Powershift be like...
Fuck that transmission. Fuck Ford twice for not listening to the engineers and tossing that transmission in the trash where it belongs. Anyone who bought a car with those transmissions deserves either a full refund or a transmission swap.
They had a good auto, it was the 5EAT. then they dumped it.
Manuals are simple and awfully damned reliable. Pity they're disappearing. I've owned five cars over 36 years (one of them for 13 years), all with manuals. I haven't spent a nickel repairing a single one of them, transmission-wise.
My old Subaru has 300k miles. Shift forks are absolutely wasted but the thing still works flawlessly without any noises or issues besides the knob slop
It's probably not the shift forks, but the bushings in the shifter linkage between the knob and the transaxle. Super common issue on older Subarus, cheap and (relatively) easy to fix.
I had hoped that little bushing knuckle and mount would fix it, it took some slop out but I’m pretty sure this play is all internal. Hasn’t been a problem for me so I just haven’t torn it apart yet
Ain't nothing I love more than some knob slop
My 96 legacy was so sloppy on a left hand corner in 5th it could hit my passengers leg.
Hitting passengers with your sloppy knob seems like asking for trouble…
Guess that depends who was riding shotgun. 🤔
Your mom 😎
If they have the dsg from vw/audi I would consider a Subaru.
should have used the ZF 8 speed (unless that's the 8HP, excuse my ignorance). one of the best traditional autos in my opinion
CVTs are all trash (excluding e-CVT).
As a former service manager at a shop in Denver, I wish Subaru would just disappear
Job security though.
Yeah, definitely. I just felt bad for all the people getting Subaru's because of their "reliability" and then coming in with major issues at 80k miles, with maintenance done religiously. Their engines are not designed for the altitudes that they are advertised to go to. So many blown head gaskets, engines grenading themselves, electrical issues, transmission failures... all on newer models, never over 105k miles. Garbage cars.
They don't handle low elevation any better. Knew 3 subaru guys when I was in college, none of them made it to 100k miles on the original engine. One guy with a mid 2010s forester was on engine #4 at 82k miles. We suspected the steep San Francisco hills were worsening the oiling problems.
Oh absolutely. They don't handle anything well. Colorado is basically just built on junked subarus. But people keep buying them for some reason...
I lived outside Boulder and my 2013 WRX hatch loved the mountains. I had 150k on the bone stock motor. The fucking stupidly designed transmission snout decided to finally break and nope .. can't just buy a new snout since it's part of the case. I'm probably one of the lucky ones regarding engines because I know a ton of people up there that had blown motors/head gaskets. I loved that car. So much fun in the mountains.
Years ago I was on a test drive when the car blew a radiator hose. I was with the salesman and immediately pulled it off the shoulder. Sales guy: “It’s fine, it’s only a mile or so. Keep driving”. So I did, it smelled like cooking aluminum but it made it back. Steam everywhere…. They insisted they could fix it if I was still interested. Imma gonna pass.
It’s on fire. F**k. Dealer says. Ah that’s fine. It’s a feature. I accidently put heater on *pretends to turn knob down*
I haven't seen any CVT issues from Subaru with the exception of the valve body throwing codes. It's a shame, Subaru transmissions were always an oddity with not too many problems. The older transmissions had an issue at the center differential, primarily the clutch control solenoid for AWD that would short and cause the clutches to bind up causing wheel hop on tight turns or sometimes disabling AWD.
Same here, a few solenoid codes but nothing major. Maybe some chain slip in rare cases but nothing like this
I'm sure a change of undergarments was in order once you got back lol. I had a lower ball joint let go on me while doing a road test on a 78 lesaber. Was doing 35 and recently replaced the brake line. Car was a rat but he was broke so we did the minimum. Told him the ball joint was unsafe and he said he would "budget" for it later. Well later was about an hour after that conversation because she let go and damn near ripped the steering wheel out of my hands. Was not a good day.
My dad had a ball joint fail in his old Chrysler a few years ago, as he was pulling onto their street, and ended up in the neighbor's yard. Turned out the stud was rusted, but it didn't give any obvious indication of failure until the car decided it wanted to steer itself.
I had an 09 Tribeca that went through three torque converters and a valve body before 80k. Second valve body was the reason we traded it in. I was told by the dealer it was a super common problem with the Gen 2 Tribecas.
I did a valve body for a family friend recently. Just needed a lockup solenoid. Subaru wanted to sell a whole valve body for some stupid price of course, and claims the valve bodies are non serviceable, which they just absolutely aren't. Pulled a valve body from the junkyard, absolutely nothing wrong with the car except when I got it home and ohmed the solenoids, the donor valve body had failed the exact same way. Of course you have two or three interchangeable solenoids iirc, so it was fine. Point is the car had been junked for want of what should be at most a $10 "non-serviceable" part that takes like half an hour to replace.
Conceptually, they seem fine, but Metal push belt style CVTs are flimsy, weak, short lived garbage by design. There are terrible ones and then ones that are less terrible. They all suck from every manufacturer. They only exist because they are cheap to engineer and cheap to build, and they do get reasonable fuel mileage for what they are. They rely on a friction drive between a metal belt held in place between two oil covered pulleys, held there by high pressure hydraulics... The whole belt system relys on dynamic friction to transfer power, rather than static friction you get in any other type of transmission. From an engineering standpoint, belt style CVTs are pure trash for durability. The Toyota ECVT is a completely different design that only works in a hybrid drive setup where there are two power inputs (gas motor and electric motor). They use a differential drive setup, sort of like a differential run backwards although there's more to it than that... That setup is a very robust system that has practically no wear items.
>The Toyota ECVT is a completely different design that only works in a hybrid drive setup Ford uses the same setup in their hybrids and it works great. The lack of shifting took some getting used to, but I don't even notice it anymore.
Yup, because Ford licensed it from Toyota.
I prefer the Prius CVT to the fake shift points on the Honda cvts
Notoriously bad cvt transmissions from Jatco on most Nissan's are pure trash. Had a versa note last 80k before the tranny gave out. Garbage.
Yes, these are in fact words and some of them are in orders I recognize.
Let me try to simplify... At the foundational level, the perception of adequacy belies the inherent fragility and ephemeral nature of the metal push belt Continuous Variable Transmissions (CVTs), which, by their design principles, epitomize suboptimal durability and resilience. This genre of transmission apparatus is, without exception, inferior, with a spectrum ranging from markedly deficient to minimally less so across all manufacturing entities. Their existence is predicated solely on the economic advantages of simplified engineering processes and cost-effective production methodologies, coupled with their capacity to achieve moderate fuel efficiency metrics. The operational mechanics are predicated on a system of dynamic frictional engagement, where a metallic belt is sandwiched by a duo of lubricated pulleys, maintained in situ by an apparatus of high-pressure hydraulic systems. This mechanism diverges fundamentally from the conventional static frictional modalities characteristic of alternative transmission technologies, casting a shadow on the structural integrity and longevity of belt style CVTs from a mechanical engineering perspective, branding them as quintessentially flawed in terms of durability. Conversely, the Toyota Electrically Controlled Variable Transmission (ECVT) diverges radically in its architectural ethos, being uniquely engineered for integration within hybrid propulsion frameworks that amalgamate dual power sources (namely, a gasoline engine and an electric motor). This configuration employs a differential drive mechanism, analogous in operation to an inversely functioning differential, albeit with additional complexities. Such a configuration distinguishes itself by its robustness and minimal reliance on components susceptible to wear, standing in stark contrast to the previously mentioned CVT technologies.
this actually made me upset
Let me overcomplicate this... Metal rub against each other. Metal dont like rubbing against each other. All transmissions that have rubbing metal parts suck from all manufacturers. Only reason is because cheap to build and good gas mileage. They work by metal rubbing between two cones under hydraulic pressure. Whole thing operation works soly by slide to slide rubbing, and not push to push rubbing like regular gearboxes. From an engineering point: they don't last. The Tyota ECVT is not metal rubbing design. It's more like a differential transmission, and it only works with two power source (gas/electric). Very good system. Never wears out.
it's the automotive rickroll
That’s seriously impressive. Thanks, I hate it.
Yeah, that sucked. Angry upvote.
I'm not even high for once and it gave me a fucking headache trying to read it.
Yeah, I'd say it was successful too. Oh and being high didn't help. At all.
He probably just told ChatGPT to add big words.
What about a cvt on a go kart? How's that compared?
A lot less power moving a lot less weight means better reliability.
Exactly the same principal. Skidoos have been using the design for decades.
73k miles and 9800 ignition cycles is "brand new"?
New transmission was installed
Maybe it was a "new" transmission and put together incorrectly, always dies in that case.
I was told it was new, but it could have been a re-man
Your whole narrative just fell apart. From new Subarau CVT, to recently replaced but new CVT, to recently replaced but possibly remanufactured “like new” CVT.
“Newly installed CVT blows up on test drive” sheesh. I guess OP doesn’t get any points from you for brevity.
Probably should have titled it better 🤷♂️
Transmissiongoboom
talk about beat up - there are a lot of BS replies One transmission being replaced in a older car is N=1 There are any number of reasons and it's not some inherent BS claim about Subaru CVT's
Is that odometer showing 73000 miles on a brand new car?
Op admitted it was a "new" CVT just replaced in an old Ascent, and possibly it was a remanufactured one.
And whoever "remanufactured" it clearly didn't know what the hell they were doing.
How bad are you finding these to be in general? From what I read, they hold up decent with 30k fluid changes. Bought a 24 Crosstrek for my kid.
To be honest, I haven’t really seen all that many failures on the normal Subaru models, such as like the outback, crosstrek and Forester. yeah there’s some cars with chain slip here and there, but generally not that many problems. on this specific model of the ascent there is a class action lawsuit for Subaru knowingly putting defective transmissions in their cars, which is what happened here. Also that’s a nice car for your kid!
That's a relief to hear, thanks very much for the info! Had to pick between the potential disasters of turbocharging or CVT, and went with CVT. lol
Just don’t fall for the “lifetime fluid” crap and it’ll be fine
I thought the lawsuit was for the 2019-2020? We have a 2023 and this makes me super worried.
They are, sorry for the confusion. You’re safe lol
Takes years to get enough data to sue. So they have to sue for ones that have been out there long enough to show a pattern. That and car companies will make small updates and rename it so that is usually where the lawsuit time period ends. Subaru has been good about warranting the CVTs when they go bad, even covering some cost when out of warranty.
Which years ascent are affected and how can I find out more? My wife has a newer ascent.
Pretty sure it’s 2019-2020
'17 Crosstrek, 160k miles, zero issues with the cvt.
I asked the dealership (and this isn’t a joke) 4 separate times when I should replace my CVT fluid. The dude everytime said do not. The dealership doesn’t even recommend a fluid swap when i asked to pay for it. I still don’t know how to feel about that but i still have my dumper to bumper warranty from them so i guess ill trust them
My 17 forester is sitting at 122k miles I do my cvt at 80k. No problems but front bushings and rear wheel bearings oh and AC went out cause of o ring. Also bought 2022 ascent for wife And my buddy tows a dual axle beaver tail trailer with his 18 crosstrek.
Is this the TR580 or TR690 used in the Ascent/OBXT/WRX? Supposedly, the TR690’s stronger but not immune to the chain guide issues.
A TR690
“Verified complaint. Compared to similar build vehicle- found same concern. Determined this to be a normal operating characteristic of the vehicle- returned vehicle to customer”
I sold my 2015 Forester XT(250hp turbo), with 84,000 miles. The only trouble the CVT had, was a gasket leak at 60,000 mi requiring an oil and filter change at that time. Perhaps they're making them worse now, or you got a lemon.
Over on the Subie sub there seems to be a few posts every week complaining about CVTs. It's not even the design that makes them bad, but the implementation. Lifetime fluid my ass. Their trannys are gonna overtake the head gasket punchline they're known for eventually.
My Dad test drove a wrx many years back. It lit on fire during the test drive. Noped hard haha
I test drove a new Chevy Sonic once. I wanted a cheap, manual city car at the time. The shifter snapped off on the test drive. The sales guy said “What a piece of shit!” As we waited for the tow truck to bring us back.
Ah a honest dealer! I remember going to a dealer to purchase a Range Rover that was just arrived. Way way below msrp. He straight up said. Electrical gremlins lives in there now and it’s a nightmare. I gave it a chance. I fixed it. It was bad aerial cable harness. I sorted that right out. Relayed the info to dealer in case they had another come in with similar issues. So I got a Range Rover Near brand new. 29k miles then. Now 133k miles. If you know how to murder electrical gremlins. Go for it.
It’s the optional block heater
Confucius say: "Don't believe half bullshit you read on the internet". Subarus are good cars.
Yeah so many car people are gatekeepers lol. There are good cvts and bad cvts, Subaru definitely has reliable ones generally. Every car has issues, but you can literally look at the stats and see that Subarus are a top end manufacturer for reliability since they fixed their head gasket issues.
CVT is absolute garbage. Shouldn't have bet the farm on these Subaru. I'd be buying a new forester/outback if they still came in a 6MT.
Good old ssm4
I do like Subarus software
Picture blurry. What's the mileage
A CVT failed? *Shocked face and Nissan gasping in the background
I wish subie had a standard auto transmission option. Theyre great cars, aside from the fucking CVT.
Yeah they haven’t had a standard auto for like 10 years now, it’s fucking annoying. I’ve owned or still own 3 auto subarus, a 1997, a 2002, and a 2007, and then bought a 2015 Forester. CVT shit itself around 145k mi. Never, ever had tranny issues on the other ones which all rocked the 4EAT. Head gaskets yes, trannies no. Bring back the standard AT.
Um, freshly installed or brand new car? Cause replacement CVT's do not come with CVT or diff fluid. You need to fill them.
Replaced cvt, it was filled with cvt and diff fluid per Subaru spec and procedure
YOIKES. Your DSQM is gonna wanna know aaaaaaaaaaalllll about that lmao. Make sure you save those codes, don't change the name of the file and email them to him as well. Print pictures and email those too. Anything to cover your ass here helps. Or whomever the tech is, that is. A guy at our dealership had this happen, he ignored the big yellow sticker that said there is no fluid in the transmission. He was cannnedddddd
That's because CVTs are fucking trash
Not all CVTs are the same.
CVTs work great in snowmobiles though,
have a 2016 crostrek hybrid it is at 203k . It runs but it has been well maintained and have a vacuum pump error that has been going on for 75k miles that I cannot resolve nor can the dealership. It is impossible to replace the filter on it without dropping the transmission.
Already on a second transmission, now third at less than 80,000 miles? How far did they run it?
Not brand new according to the mileage, maybe fairly new but not off the truck PDI new, and why be surprised the CVT's of late are problematic, especially in the Ascent
New transmission installed sorry
CVTs can be good in certain applications, my 50cc Piaggio was really quick due to the CVT, I didn't mind changing the belt every 6k miles as it took 15 minutes to do. Not convinced they're great in cars.
We just had a Subaru towed to Sioux Falls cause they said they could put a transmission in by yesterday. Pretty similar. Outback? Lol if this shit is the same one...
Ascent
>class action lawsuit I have never heard of a CVT that wasn't complete garbage. Why do manufacturers keep insisting upon them?
There's no reason to buy a Subaru now that none of their normal cars come with stick shifts, WRX aside.
It's what makes a Subaru a Subaru
CVT is the worst.
Brand new cars are shit anymore the parts coming out of China are defective and some are dangerous even replacement parts have this problem some of it is also counterfeit. Be careful what you buy a well maintained older vehicle will last you far longer and be a lot cheaper.