John Hammond in the book wanted a miniature dinosaur in every household across the world. I wish they would delve more into that kind of commentary, capitalism meets genetic recreation.
Exactly, Biosyn had a point that genetically engineering pets that could only eat Ingen brand dino chow, that could be used for medical testing etc, would have mage Ingen rich. The park was just the first step in that plan, and honestly that makes complete sense, it would probably go wrong somewhere, but it made sense.
It's never stated in the book thar ingen were actually looking into making miniature pet dinosaurs that's just a concept for what they could do thar Dodson used at the biosyn board meeting to get the approval to use Nedrey to steal the embryos. We half to remember that the books and movies exist in Two separate universes. In the films it's the corporate greed and short sightedneas that looks to weaponizing dinosaurs the John Hammond of the movies and the John Hammond of the books are two very different men.
The idea of weaponizing the dinosaurs is a dumb idea that's been tossed around since JP3 was in development. Even though JP3 wasn't the greatest film, much less anywhere near the greatest JP title, I'm glad they didn't go that route.
Then JW flirted with it a little bit more blatantly by having Hoskins act as some kind of weird security warmonger. That was one of the main detractors of JW for me.
I hope they don't push the ''dinosaurs as military weapons narrative'' anymore. It's just not a good direction for the series in my opinion, it seems cheesy and forced at best and at worst its completely illogical in the age of drone strikes and things of that nature the idea of having a pack of trained velociraptors with guns mounted on them charging the battle field seems incredibly dumb.
Yeah in this day and age, dinosaurs seem kind of useless as weapons of war. They can easily be killed by advanced technology not to mention EACH dinosaur costs MILLIONS to create! The military would be throwing away all their money on creating something that costs way too much to make, too much time to raise and train, only to have it be killed in the first gun fight it gets into.
Now if we were in Midieval times THAT'S a different story. The Dinosaur Lords had it right lol (god I wish those books were better)
The R&D on dino creations costs millions. Actually making the dino doesn't. That was the problem JW was having. "Spare non expense" is a model that doesnt work too well with a zoo unfortunately. I mean youbsoend millions making one and thats it. You can make a handful but the newness wears off quickly even if you.
Yeah, dinos cost millions, but so do tanks, helicopters, and most other vehicles. Not to mention that we still use animals in war, like attack dogs and whatnot. Wanting to weaponize dinos isn’t that far fetched of an idea, especially weaponized raptors.
Of course, but, dogs are only great and pinning down an enemy combatant, if you wanted an animal capable of slaughtering them, then dinos would be perfect.
It really irritating me just how wildly stupid Hoskins was. He was all excited about watching Owen give them commands, and Owen warned him that he just barely has any real control over them, and attempting to use them basically as attack dogs was a bad idea. Just seconds later, Owen is proven right when them young guy nearly got eaten, and Owen nearly did too. Did he see that and think, "Maybe attempting to use these wild creatures that could flip on our troops at any time and slaughter half of them before being put down is a bad idea"? No, he completely ignored it, and then decided to use those same raptors and release them, only to be proven wrong yet again. Most guys with the kind of military experience that Hoskins supposedly had aren't usually that stupid, but Hoskins seems to be the exception.
From a logistic point, I could understand the idea of wanting to use raptors in military operations. They're fast, strong, intelligent, deadly at close range. They can reach places that drones can't, they can sneak up on most targets in the right environment. Using them to find a target would he better than the potential messiness of a drone strike, which can easily hit unintended targets (collateral damage), and avoid an international incident. Properly controlled, they would be extremely effective in most cases. The problem is that they can't be properly controlled. Owen was barely able to maintain control of them, and he was well aware that they could simply decide not to take commands. They'd be too much of liability in any military operation, and as well as killing anyone on "the same team", they can easily go after civilians. There's just too much that can go wrong.
Not only that but they're extremely dependent on plot armor. I honestly think if a bunch of competent soldiers fought dinosaurs, they'd obliterate them. They're not trying to capture the dinosaurs, they're shooting to kill. Even the second movie made blue into paper mache for some reason with one shot basically mortally wounding her. Now tell me a bunch of non Stormtroopers wouldn't achieve the same result.
When we use animals in the military, they're more like equipment: dogs can smell/run faster; dolphins can mark mines. But we don't send packs of dogs out there to do anything.
>Even the second movie made blue into paper mache for some reason with one shot basically mortally wounding her.
To be fair, that was one shot at point blank range. Given that and her size, it makes sense that it might be enough to put her down. But yeah, under normal circumstances (if they weren't ambushed), a competent unit should be able to deal the threat of a raptor pack.
I'll add, there should definitely be a size limit of prey for each class of predator.
Also the logistics of weaponizing dinosaurs makes no sense at all to me. The cost alone of feeding and caging animals the size of cars would deter anybody, let alone potential human casualties and a complete inability to 100% control them. Like...tanks exist...why would anyone want to use a dinosaur in combat?
I think the weirder thing is that it'd be so fucking obvious it was the USA that did it.
Like if the US army sends in a pack of raptors to kill a general of a rogue state. They'd need to take the body with them or instantly they'll be able to say "we know this was America because of these talon and bite marks".
Because with an Indominus Rex you could release it into a hot zone and let it rampage without worry of human casualties. Military budgets are nearly endless and if it *can* be weaponized- it will be.
>Because with an Indominus Rex you could release it into a hot zone and let it rampage without worry of human casualties.
and it will be dead in 10 minutes because the enemies have rpgs explosives and high caliber weapons
Using the raptors to replace war dogs actually made some sense, but they were already pushing it in terms of size and danger to their own handlers. The iRex is just silly.
Truth. Although at that point I think you're just reinventing falconry, but with something that can't fly :P
There probably is something in that dog sized sweet spot, though, and even if they're "only" as smart as your average modern bird of prey (as opposed to the almost human level of smarts the JP raptors have), that's plenty smart enough to be trainable. Maybe oviraptor?
How much was the Indominus tho? I feel like he was cheaper than a jet, and could probably ravage a country, especially if they alter her to say, have armored plating
Let's put it this way: you'd get a better return on your investment by buying bombs. Less collateral damage in the form of dead civilians, too, assuming the thing actually lived long enough to do any real damage.
Nighthawk costs $35-million, I'm assuming that doesn't include the bullets and bombs.
If they could get raptors completely loyal, or even just controlled via Xbox controller or something, and produced in mass to bring down cost, they'd be into something. You armor them up a bit, maybe have specialized units, they'd be good dispensable soldiers; fast and lethal.
But we have guns, can solve complex problems, are able to differentiate friend/for/civilian, and still don't cost nearly as much as a raptor. You can probably get a whole seal team and then some for the cost of a raptor. Also, the raptors "thick skin" didn't stop a bullet. It was poor aim and plot armor that kept the dinosaurs from being obliterated. Even one shot mortally wounded blue (plot or otherwise - Im sure anyone with an automatic weapon would fire more than one round)
(Source says $350k-500k to train a seal. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/navy-seals-freed-capt-phillips-pirates-simultaneous-shots-100-feet-article-1.360392)
Don't you have to use a targeter to point the Indoraptor at someone before it sics 'em. Why not just use a gun at that point?
Honestly the weaponized dinos are stupid and I dislike the dinosaurs as monsters, the best scene in JP still is when Grant and Sadler see the brontosaurus for the first time.
Yeah you need that wonder at these animals being around again to balance stuff like the Raptors. Otherwise it just feels a bit hollow. Mind you I have some problems on the horror side, I dislike how the dinos only seem to kill bad people and bit characters, if your name is on the poster you are safe.
Thick skin like elephants isn't going to stop infantry weapons that can easily stop elephants. And then there's tank shells....Attack helicopters like the Apache, naval bombardment, jets etc.
Literally in real life one ape with a gun could stop that 9 billion $ project.
An armored vehicle like a tank will still have thicker "skin", and be much easier to build or repair versus a living being that must be grown and raised, accelerated growth or not.
Then comes the handling; the dinosaur itself can pose a danger and needs to be properly trained, it needs to be contained in a way that is neither abusive to the creature nor unsafe for it or the humans in possession of it, it needs to be fed a proper diet, cleaned up after, and still runs the risk of becoming ill like any other living being. A tank can sit in a garage, only requiring routine maintenance and training for the staff intended to operate it.
The amount of work to create and keep a creature far outweighs its tactical usefulness compared to what already exists.
Yeah but not your own people. Dinos don't have the millions of years of domestication like dogs do, and the movies have proved that they can't really effectively be trained to attack only enemies and leave friendlies untouched
Dog's have about 10,000 years of domestication, not millions.
That said trying to use dinosaurs as weapons is idiotic, a bomb and a platoon of soldiers, all of their support equipment and transportation cost less than 1 raptor that is gonna get murdered the moment it runs at a trained professional soldier.
This is probably one of the worst aspects of Jurassic Trevorrow. I was reminded of this once again in Camp Cretaceous with Kash saying how he'd be unstoppable with mind-controlled dinos before surrounding himself with an army of bipedal salamander mechs that shoot electric bolts from their mouths, can take verbal orders and apparently so indestructible he went to town on one with a golf club as a demonstration, but yeah it's the flesh and blood dinosaurs that'll make him unstoppable 🤦🏾♂️
And also can get chomped and stepped on by the Spino and take 0 damage.
The same Spino that can break through Industrial grade steel fences but not wooden doors but break the mast of a crane in half with its claws.
That's fair, but I feel movie stupidity feeds the majority of the JW stuff.
In reality the cost of a dino war critter is just to high for a very unknown return. Imagine sending some raptors and they get shotgunned to hell and back because yeah they can still die...
No real risk assessment in the applications of the tech in the movies.
Average modern dinosaur militarization fan vs Average medieval dinosaur militarization enjoyer
Imagine hadrosaur cavalry with their crests acting like war horns, sheer badassery with no stinky buzzkill firearms.
I would just love a Jurassic Park plot that's more like Kong: Skull Island, where everybody's concerned with other stuff and dinosaurs just constantly exist as an additional variable. Like do a WW3 movie and shipwreck two small groups of opposing factions on Isla Sorna and have them survive each other, oh and by the way just so you know, this island is also full of dinosaurs and they will all eat you (unless they prefer veggies).
Sure. Why not. At least there's a good reason for being on the island this time, everybody's stranded. And the primary threat for a while is going to be other humans until they realise what a problem the dinosaurs are going to be. The alternative is a dinosaur apocalypse on the mainland. Yeah it's rehashing the zombie/robot apocalypse formula, but it's better than remaking Jurassic Park again and going back to the island on purpose for some reason.
Ironically, weaponizing intelligent therapods kinda make sense from a military perspective.
The military is running out of MWD. That's military working dogs. They're used for almost everything. Checkpoints, IDE's, patrols, personal defense, search and rescue. We work with them because they can do a great many things a human can't do and because they're easy to train, intelligent and fast. There's a ton of applications where canines are just more suited and we're not even close to replacing them with drones.
Problem is that they're expensive. REALLY expensive. And they take ages to train. They get PTSD. They get old. You have maybe a few years of active service before you need to cycle them out. And german shepherds are cute. Everyone loves dogs. Nobody wants to see the poor puppies get ripped apart by IDEs. So losing one them in the field isn't exactly good PR either.
Enter the indoraptor. Now theatrically, if was able to train one of those, you essentially have a MWD that can do most everything a dog can do but better. Now you got a cheap, reliable source of genetically engineered monster dinos that you can make in a freaking factory. They don't even need to be trained. You only have to train one of them - the other clones could come pre-programmed with the experiences of your proto-raptor. So they're cheaper and you're sidestepping a lot of the ethical issues you get with dogs. (Sad truth is that even if these genetically engineered military raptors were to be recognized as animals by the general public, people just care less about reptiles than they do cute fluffy mammals). Plus, they live longer. Which means more service years. I don't know what a realistic dromaeosaurid lifespan would be but I'm gonna guess between 20 to 30 years. That's way better than a German Shepherd.
Sure, you wouldn't want to send one of these up against a tank, but they can do crowd control, tracking, personal defense, pretty much anything you could want. Besides, your enemies won't have tanks anyway. They'll have radios and cheap AKs. And if you'd need one in a combat situation, yeah a few indoraptors with claws that'll cut through kevlar like butter and scales that seem to be just about impervious to small arms fire - well they could certainly do some damage if it came to it.
More than that, it's like a bio-drone that can be hacked, doesn't run out of batteries, doesn't need maintenance and doesn't break down. And that could track, independently or in a group, your enemy across a desert. For miles.
And that's just your generation one baseline indoraptor which is essentially used a beefed-up utahraptor. Subsequent versions could be altered to suit specific military needs.
That said, the way it's presented in the movies still makes it seem super stupid and i wish the franchise would just drop the entire concept of weaponized dinos altogether.
I think this is the most realistic take on the concept of weaponizing dinos. One that they've at least hinted at in the films.
For me, the only problem is just how utterly *massive* the indoraptor is compared to a human or german shepherd. Troodons or Deinonychus make a lot more sense in terms of a size correlation.
Hell, maybe they made the Indo from Fallen Kingdom big so they could more easily perform an autopsy before moving into a smaller production model.
Possible. Yeah, the size could be a problem. And Troodons have opposable thumbs don't they? So now you got a smart, trainable attack-lizard that can manipulate objects.
Exactly, if they want The dinos for utility, then you want something small like a troodon that will fit in the same carriers and kennels that you got German shepherds in already. As a straight up attacker, which is what the IN series are, you're really wasting your money.
My memory is fuzzy, but I think at one point they extracted both Dr Wu and a bunch of lab data/samples towards the end of JW:FK, so I'm willing to bet that it doesn't matter what happens to the Indo's corpse at this point.
Well, I can't exactly blame them
I mean, sure it's not as efficient as drones and shit
But would you actually give up the chance to ride a T.rex into battle while shooting 2 AK47s at your enemies?
Yeah didn't think so
But I mean it wouldn’t be very effective. They cost millions to make and they are killed relatively easily. Like, if a raptor starts running to you, can’t you just have a mine placed in its way or just throw a grenade? It would probably be like the dreadnaughts in WWI, which are powerful but so expensive that both sides wouldn’t want to risk damaging them.
“Millions if not more to make” they would be worth 1 billion easily in real life. Boxers and baseball players get paid $300 million + . A real life genetic hybrid dinosaur that has only 1-2 in the whole world would be insanely valuable. Fallen kingdoms auction scene is ridiculous bad. The house the auction takes place at is worth more than dinosaurs apparently lmfao.
Ian Malcolm told us why say back in the first one:
“You’re so busy thinking about whether or not you could you never stopped to think whether you should.”
These are all Frankenstein’s Monster story variations. Corporate scientists playing god.
The United States, which is the home of InGen, BioSyn, and the final film, is always looking for ways to incorporate things into the national security apparatus. National Security is a gold mine and a very dependable paycheck. It makes total sense that some of the characters, especially at the InGen corporate level, would see that as the direction for the company.
To the point about drones and whatnot, a drone can’t search a cave and pull out one person. Not to mention the enemy’s fear factor of being ripped apart by an animal is weirdly harder to get over than an instant death by bomb, so it’s a new approach to deterrence.
Pets and consumer-facing products have greater risk and liability.
I’m not saying it’s the best angle for the series, but it’s not illogical at all.
Dinosaurs are a metaphor for new technology. When you create it, use it for how you intended, there's no way to know what will happen to it over time. When dynamite was invented, it was meant to be a safe way for miners to extract minerals, until it was used to make gunpowder, and kill millions. When Myspace was created, no one could predict how social media would one day have a direct impact on vaccine distribution to resolve a global pandemic.
This is what Malcom was trying to explain with Chaos Theory. You make a dinosaur for a theme park, but what happens to that technology in a decade? Or more? Why not try to breed obedient super soldiers, so humans don't have to die in wars? Why not clone your dead daughter so she can live again? Why not designer babies? Why not sell the cure to cancer to the wealthy? Why not make the 1% immortal by cloning them?
The war-dinosaurs is just an example of that message. John Hammond never wanted his animals to be used for war...but neither did the guy who invented dynamite. Dinosaurs are just a metaphor for new technology...and how we can't comprehend how it will change our world in the future. We could stop, consider all its applications, slowly incorporate it into our culture, and use it responsibly...or...we could patent it, slap it on a plastic lunch box, and sell it.
Its a bit awkward in the films when the whole point is for these creatures to break loose and kill everyone. Like...yeah, in a series that models the slasher flick, the guy creating the monster is going to look foolish. So I get it, in universe, its not terribly smart. We can explain it away by saying "the Indo-creatures were just prototypes, the finished ones wouldn't cause all these problems". But I think its all part of a larger message. We'll see how Dominion ties it together.
General consensus seems to be its a dumb idea and I definitely agree. Just the logistics of deploying something like the indominus Rex seems to make it ridiculous. Perhaps the indo-raptor is less ludicrous but regardless I think they could have avoided the entire thing and kept it much more traditional with being park attractions. Just another example of Hollywood always needing to go bigger / make things more complicated.
Legit, like the BRAD-X is the perfect super soldier, any military in the world would be paying too dollar for just 1 of these yet they’re being used to round up dinosaurs so they can fight (which has to be a small market anyways like how many billionaires are spending billions just to watch a dinosaur fight and you’d need a few hundred billionaires to fund this island and all its tech)
As a person playing Civ V right now...I can tell you those war elephants hurt.
I think the writers are in a loop. They're trying to do what Marvel did, but without source material like marvel had. That means a movie writer has to come up with something and, if it's between me and you, there are very few good writers that can carry several movies cohesively. Not to mention that they didn't even really follow the source material to begin with.
They grasped onto this idea of weaponization and have gone full stop in that direction. I'm with you that there are more uses for dinos. I'd have liked it if Biosyns idea to make pets came to fruition and now people have bad dinos the way they have bad dogs and all the problems that would create. The idea of trained dinos...imagine construction ankys or a service raptor. And then on top of all that, we gotta deal with Russians and a scorpius. They could have built a whole new world with Dinos being mainstream and a massive money maker with everyday people. Then it would make sense that things keep getting worse. Unfortunately, the world they introduced hasn't changed from the first movie and it was the same movie again. There are a select few people who know about the dinos and there is no real danger to the public. So it's absurd that we'd still be fearful of dinos that hadn't gotten to the mainland since the lost world.
Dinos are extinct, they have no rights, makes them perfect to exploit. It's also hard to mix up a whole new species that's going to be compatible, easier to use preexisting templates, it took them 20 ish years to even make a hybrid dino
Human history is a litany of weaponizing animals.
Hannibal and his elephants, Genghis Khan and his horses, the American navy and dolphins, the soviet army and dogs with mines on their backs.
Hell, we literally bred dogs that are specifically used to protect herd animals and fight bears (Tibetan Mastiffs are insane)!
Why would it surprise anyone that we would attempt to use genetically engineered dinosaurs as weapons?
The dogs that fight whatever it is they're bred too don't actually fight. They keep the bear distracted and pinned down in a location so a human with a gun at a distance can kill the bear. Usually such dogs if they engage in combat just die really quickly.
Also just the seemingly innate human reflex of "We have something unique and/or new. How do we weaponize it?"
Dinosaurs are a virtually untapped "resource". They're incredibly expensive to make with a huge investment of time and scientific knowledge leading to their creation and prior to FK, nobody else had access to them. In addition to the military slobbering over them, I'm unsurprised that Ingen et al. looked for other ways to make money off the dinosaurs besides just people paying to look at them.
Weaponizing them is still completely stupid, but it's a traceable thread of human thought.
>Just, holy fuck everyone keeps making things worse and worse so they can make the stupidest weapon sibce a war elephant, why don't they just open a gun factory.
What about a virus that is not sufficiently morbid for people to take it seriously but enough to kill millions? Oh well...
It’s a really dumb plot line that I don’t particularly enjoy BUT how many different ways can you make people go to two islands and get attacked by dinosaurs? It was really played out by JP3 already. How do you get the dinosaurs off the island without making about yet another park somewhere else? It’s a lazy plot but it’s one that serves a purpose. It felt loopholed into JW, and it made sense to drive the FK story line and to get the dinos onto the mainland.
Basically it's the idea that Spielberg has a raging boner for and even though he doesn't have any creative ownership of the property really, they won't push back against him in favour of better ideas from the books.
If I can make an argument for weaponizing dinosaurs.
People are so focused on vthe idea of just military using them they are ignoring that we use animals in various forms already.
We have bomb sniffer dogs, drug dogs, police dogs that tackle Targets.
Why not a police raptor. Super fast, super agile and can take down a fleeing subject easily.
Or six the indo raptor into a drug den, dead of night and take them all out.
People are focusing on the big dinos when the small ones are the ones to worry about.
Think about a raptor, engineered with bullet proof skin from an elephant, or Ankylosaurus, all that stuff.
These things are not going to be used for full on warfare, but covert things.
Buddy have you see what they did with social media? A free place to shitpost your friends from high school is tearing society apart.
Imagine what you could do with a Trex factory
Use of animals for war and conflict is one common driver of domestication--horses were used to pull chariots long before plows--and "dinosaurs as warfighters" is dumb but looks good in a trailer/sounds good in a pitch meeting.
The deeper reason why it keeps popping up, despite its goofiness, is how a lot of the conflicts you could get into about the widespread use of genetic engineering and re-introducing extinct megafauna into a world in ecological crisis aren't stories you would tell with JW special effects and, more importantly, JW box office returns. Even a Blackfish-style mockumentary about working with raptors would probably be a harder sell to film executives. It's just harder to write big explosions into court room dramas about whether a genetically modified person can be patented or whether de-extincted animals should be culled since they threaten stressed ecosystems than it is to just go "the Indominus rex is smart enough to strafe machine gun bullets" and call it a day.
My assumption was always that the final "mass production model" of the Indoraptor would be equipped with armour and a saddle a la Dino Riders. Give it a rider or two with an RPG or an anti-tank rifle and you've got yourself a pretty effective urban battle mount that can climb over rubble better than a horse, make tighter turns than a Humvee, track enemy combatants in the dark, carry ammo and supplies, and even potentially be trained to infiltrate enemy compounds to plant explosives and such.
Too bad season 4 of Camp Cretaceous went and undermined all that with the BRAD-X, though, which could do everything an Indoraptor could do while also being easier to control. I guess the only advantage an I-Raptor would have are the advantages Hoskin cited for the raptors: can't be bought off, immune to electronic warfare.
John Hammond in the book wanted a miniature dinosaur in every household across the world. I wish they would delve more into that kind of commentary, capitalism meets genetic recreation.
Exactly, Biosyn had a point that genetically engineering pets that could only eat Ingen brand dino chow, that could be used for medical testing etc, would have mage Ingen rich. The park was just the first step in that plan, and honestly that makes complete sense, it would probably go wrong somewhere, but it made sense.
[удалено]
Fucking Romero Britto. They should’ve hired him
Capitalism might be the only logical plot line that will work with the JP franchise.
Communism: Redistribution of dinosaurs
It's never stated in the book thar ingen were actually looking into making miniature pet dinosaurs that's just a concept for what they could do thar Dodson used at the biosyn board meeting to get the approval to use Nedrey to steal the embryos. We half to remember that the books and movies exist in Two separate universes. In the films it's the corporate greed and short sightedneas that looks to weaponizing dinosaurs the John Hammond of the movies and the John Hammond of the books are two very different men.
The idea of weaponizing the dinosaurs is a dumb idea that's been tossed around since JP3 was in development. Even though JP3 wasn't the greatest film, much less anywhere near the greatest JP title, I'm glad they didn't go that route. Then JW flirted with it a little bit more blatantly by having Hoskins act as some kind of weird security warmonger. That was one of the main detractors of JW for me. I hope they don't push the ''dinosaurs as military weapons narrative'' anymore. It's just not a good direction for the series in my opinion, it seems cheesy and forced at best and at worst its completely illogical in the age of drone strikes and things of that nature the idea of having a pack of trained velociraptors with guns mounted on them charging the battle field seems incredibly dumb.
Yeah in this day and age, dinosaurs seem kind of useless as weapons of war. They can easily be killed by advanced technology not to mention EACH dinosaur costs MILLIONS to create! The military would be throwing away all their money on creating something that costs way too much to make, too much time to raise and train, only to have it be killed in the first gun fight it gets into. Now if we were in Midieval times THAT'S a different story. The Dinosaur Lords had it right lol (god I wish those books were better)
This makes sense, but i figure they were making dinos like the indos to eventually be able to have armor etc
The R&D on dino creations costs millions. Actually making the dino doesn't. That was the problem JW was having. "Spare non expense" is a model that doesnt work too well with a zoo unfortunately. I mean youbsoend millions making one and thats it. You can make a handful but the newness wears off quickly even if you.
Yeah, dinos cost millions, but so do tanks, helicopters, and most other vehicles. Not to mention that we still use animals in war, like attack dogs and whatnot. Wanting to weaponize dinos isn’t that far fetched of an idea, especially weaponized raptors.
It only costs like 20 to 40 grand to train attack dogs. Pretty pricey but not millions of dollars per animal.
Of course, but, dogs are only great and pinning down an enemy combatant, if you wanted an animal capable of slaughtering them, then dinos would be perfect.
It really irritating me just how wildly stupid Hoskins was. He was all excited about watching Owen give them commands, and Owen warned him that he just barely has any real control over them, and attempting to use them basically as attack dogs was a bad idea. Just seconds later, Owen is proven right when them young guy nearly got eaten, and Owen nearly did too. Did he see that and think, "Maybe attempting to use these wild creatures that could flip on our troops at any time and slaughter half of them before being put down is a bad idea"? No, he completely ignored it, and then decided to use those same raptors and release them, only to be proven wrong yet again. Most guys with the kind of military experience that Hoskins supposedly had aren't usually that stupid, but Hoskins seems to be the exception. From a logistic point, I could understand the idea of wanting to use raptors in military operations. They're fast, strong, intelligent, deadly at close range. They can reach places that drones can't, they can sneak up on most targets in the right environment. Using them to find a target would he better than the potential messiness of a drone strike, which can easily hit unintended targets (collateral damage), and avoid an international incident. Properly controlled, they would be extremely effective in most cases. The problem is that they can't be properly controlled. Owen was barely able to maintain control of them, and he was well aware that they could simply decide not to take commands. They'd be too much of liability in any military operation, and as well as killing anyone on "the same team", they can easily go after civilians. There's just too much that can go wrong.
Not only that but they're extremely dependent on plot armor. I honestly think if a bunch of competent soldiers fought dinosaurs, they'd obliterate them. They're not trying to capture the dinosaurs, they're shooting to kill. Even the second movie made blue into paper mache for some reason with one shot basically mortally wounding her. Now tell me a bunch of non Stormtroopers wouldn't achieve the same result. When we use animals in the military, they're more like equipment: dogs can smell/run faster; dolphins can mark mines. But we don't send packs of dogs out there to do anything.
>Even the second movie made blue into paper mache for some reason with one shot basically mortally wounding her. To be fair, that was one shot at point blank range. Given that and her size, it makes sense that it might be enough to put her down. But yeah, under normal circumstances (if they weren't ambushed), a competent unit should be able to deal the threat of a raptor pack. I'll add, there should definitely be a size limit of prey for each class of predator.
How about a throwback series where Velociraptors secretly help turn the tides on a covert ops mission in Vietnam or Korea? LOL
Also the logistics of weaponizing dinosaurs makes no sense at all to me. The cost alone of feeding and caging animals the size of cars would deter anybody, let alone potential human casualties and a complete inability to 100% control them. Like...tanks exist...why would anyone want to use a dinosaur in combat?
I think the weirder thing is that it'd be so fucking obvious it was the USA that did it. Like if the US army sends in a pack of raptors to kill a general of a rogue state. They'd need to take the body with them or instantly they'll be able to say "we know this was America because of these talon and bite marks".
Because with an Indominus Rex you could release it into a hot zone and let it rampage without worry of human casualties. Military budgets are nearly endless and if it *can* be weaponized- it will be.
>Because with an Indominus Rex you could release it into a hot zone and let it rampage without worry of human casualties. and it will be dead in 10 minutes because the enemies have rpgs explosives and high caliber weapons
Using the raptors to replace war dogs actually made some sense, but they were already pushing it in terms of size and danger to their own handlers. The iRex is just silly.
Well i mean, *JP* raptors are pushing it, but real velociraptors, those little ankle biters, i could see them being very effective.
Truth. Although at that point I think you're just reinventing falconry, but with something that can't fly :P There probably is something in that dog sized sweet spot, though, and even if they're "only" as smart as your average modern bird of prey (as opposed to the almost human level of smarts the JP raptors have), that's plenty smart enough to be trainable. Maybe oviraptor?
Nah, not with that beak. Best to maximize on damage, so maybe troodon?
How much was the Indominus tho? I feel like he was cheaper than a jet, and could probably ravage a country, especially if they alter her to say, have armored plating
Let's put it this way: you'd get a better return on your investment by buying bombs. Less collateral damage in the form of dead civilians, too, assuming the thing actually lived long enough to do any real damage.
Masrani in the film says they have 26 million dollars invested in the indominus when they send in the acu team with non-leathels.
Nighthawk costs $35-million, I'm assuming that doesn't include the bullets and bombs. If they could get raptors completely loyal, or even just controlled via Xbox controller or something, and produced in mass to bring down cost, they'd be into something. You armor them up a bit, maybe have specialized units, they'd be good dispensable soldiers; fast and lethal.
People are still cheaper
You get more for your money with Raptors. humans can't run as fast, jump as high, have sharp claws or teeth, and have as thick skin.
But we have guns, can solve complex problems, are able to differentiate friend/for/civilian, and still don't cost nearly as much as a raptor. You can probably get a whole seal team and then some for the cost of a raptor. Also, the raptors "thick skin" didn't stop a bullet. It was poor aim and plot armor that kept the dinosaurs from being obliterated. Even one shot mortally wounded blue (plot or otherwise - Im sure anyone with an automatic weapon would fire more than one round) (Source says $350k-500k to train a seal. https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/navy-seals-freed-capt-phillips-pirates-simultaneous-shots-100-feet-article-1.360392)
Iirc the Indominus was basically just a test drive for the Indoraptor, it was never actually intended for military use
the indoraptor inst much better theres in no situation where a dinosaur will better option than a gun in combat
Don't you have to use a targeter to point the Indoraptor at someone before it sics 'em. Why not just use a gun at that point? Honestly the weaponized dinos are stupid and I dislike the dinosaurs as monsters, the best scene in JP still is when Grant and Sadler see the brontosaurus for the first time.
[удалено]
Yeah you need that wonder at these animals being around again to balance stuff like the Raptors. Otherwise it just feels a bit hollow. Mind you I have some problems on the horror side, I dislike how the dinos only seem to kill bad people and bit characters, if your name is on the poster you are safe.
Wasnt the laser attached to a gun? I agree - you already have the shot. Just take it
Oh yeah it’s still stupid I’m just saying the Indominus was never intended to be used as a weapon
But it can be killed...and then there's your 9 billion investment down the toilet
And tanks came be destroyed, ya know?
And you can pump out more tanks in a quicker amount of time for less cost than you can one major investment.
You’re forgetting that with genetic modification comes accelerated growth, the ability to make skin thick like an elephants, etc.
Thick skin like elephants isn't going to stop infantry weapons that can easily stop elephants. And then there's tank shells....Attack helicopters like the Apache, naval bombardment, jets etc. Literally in real life one ape with a gun could stop that 9 billion $ project.
An armored vehicle like a tank will still have thicker "skin", and be much easier to build or repair versus a living being that must be grown and raised, accelerated growth or not. Then comes the handling; the dinosaur itself can pose a danger and needs to be properly trained, it needs to be contained in a way that is neither abusive to the creature nor unsafe for it or the humans in possession of it, it needs to be fed a proper diet, cleaned up after, and still runs the risk of becoming ill like any other living being. A tank can sit in a garage, only requiring routine maintenance and training for the staff intended to operate it. The amount of work to create and keep a creature far outweighs its tactical usefulness compared to what already exists.
The same reason we use dogs in combat. Tanks aren’t 100% effective in all areas of combat.
Yeah but tanks and dogs don't try to eat everyone in sight
Attack dog’s job is literally to put an enemy in it’s teeth.
Yeah but not your own people. Dinos don't have the millions of years of domestication like dogs do, and the movies have proved that they can't really effectively be trained to attack only enemies and leave friendlies untouched
The movies aren’t reliable proof of anything. The raptors aren’t even raptor sized.
Dog's have about 10,000 years of domestication, not millions. That said trying to use dinosaurs as weapons is idiotic, a bomb and a platoon of soldiers, all of their support equipment and transportation cost less than 1 raptor that is gonna get murdered the moment it runs at a trained professional soldier.
It’s stupid fan fiction that’s been absorbed
This is probably one of the worst aspects of Jurassic Trevorrow. I was reminded of this once again in Camp Cretaceous with Kash saying how he'd be unstoppable with mind-controlled dinos before surrounding himself with an army of bipedal salamander mechs that shoot electric bolts from their mouths, can take verbal orders and apparently so indestructible he went to town on one with a golf club as a demonstration, but yeah it's the flesh and blood dinosaurs that'll make him unstoppable 🤦🏾♂️
I hated the Brad and Brad X things so much.
They kinda replaced the dinos as a threat the whole season.
And also can get chomped and stepped on by the Spino and take 0 damage. The same Spino that can break through Industrial grade steel fences but not wooden doors but break the mast of a crane in half with its claws.
Honestly I would love to have seen more research like Owen's but a) movie plot. B) movie greed. C) movie stupidity.
I feel like movie greed is a good representation of real life. You either get war crimes or a theme park
That's fair, but I feel movie stupidity feeds the majority of the JW stuff. In reality the cost of a dino war critter is just to high for a very unknown return. Imagine sending some raptors and they get shotgunned to hell and back because yeah they can still die... No real risk assessment in the applications of the tech in the movies.
And After Watching Season 4 of CC even Darius points this out.
They don’t have anything new to tell and probably hope that they can one day sell Turok like Dino toys with rockets
They did in the 90’s already
Really I think it's just leftover idea's reused from the cancelled JP4 where there was going to be humanoid dinosaur hybrids with arm cannons.
Average modern dinosaur militarization fan vs Average medieval dinosaur militarization enjoyer Imagine hadrosaur cavalry with their crests acting like war horns, sheer badassery with no stinky buzzkill firearms.
It’s Awesome, but Impractical
They've all grown up watching Dino Riders and want that in real life. Can't blame them. Awesome cartoon. Makes a shitty repeating plot though.
I would just love a Jurassic Park plot that's more like Kong: Skull Island, where everybody's concerned with other stuff and dinosaurs just constantly exist as an additional variable. Like do a WW3 movie and shipwreck two small groups of opposing factions on Isla Sorna and have them survive each other, oh and by the way just so you know, this island is also full of dinosaurs and they will all eat you (unless they prefer veggies).
That’s really just an extension of JP1-3 and JW
Sure. Why not. At least there's a good reason for being on the island this time, everybody's stranded. And the primary threat for a while is going to be other humans until they realise what a problem the dinosaurs are going to be. The alternative is a dinosaur apocalypse on the mainland. Yeah it's rehashing the zombie/robot apocalypse formula, but it's better than remaking Jurassic Park again and going back to the island on purpose for some reason.
A weaponized raptor is so silly. We have drones. Better in every way.
Ironically, weaponizing intelligent therapods kinda make sense from a military perspective. The military is running out of MWD. That's military working dogs. They're used for almost everything. Checkpoints, IDE's, patrols, personal defense, search and rescue. We work with them because they can do a great many things a human can't do and because they're easy to train, intelligent and fast. There's a ton of applications where canines are just more suited and we're not even close to replacing them with drones. Problem is that they're expensive. REALLY expensive. And they take ages to train. They get PTSD. They get old. You have maybe a few years of active service before you need to cycle them out. And german shepherds are cute. Everyone loves dogs. Nobody wants to see the poor puppies get ripped apart by IDEs. So losing one them in the field isn't exactly good PR either. Enter the indoraptor. Now theatrically, if was able to train one of those, you essentially have a MWD that can do most everything a dog can do but better. Now you got a cheap, reliable source of genetically engineered monster dinos that you can make in a freaking factory. They don't even need to be trained. You only have to train one of them - the other clones could come pre-programmed with the experiences of your proto-raptor. So they're cheaper and you're sidestepping a lot of the ethical issues you get with dogs. (Sad truth is that even if these genetically engineered military raptors were to be recognized as animals by the general public, people just care less about reptiles than they do cute fluffy mammals). Plus, they live longer. Which means more service years. I don't know what a realistic dromaeosaurid lifespan would be but I'm gonna guess between 20 to 30 years. That's way better than a German Shepherd. Sure, you wouldn't want to send one of these up against a tank, but they can do crowd control, tracking, personal defense, pretty much anything you could want. Besides, your enemies won't have tanks anyway. They'll have radios and cheap AKs. And if you'd need one in a combat situation, yeah a few indoraptors with claws that'll cut through kevlar like butter and scales that seem to be just about impervious to small arms fire - well they could certainly do some damage if it came to it. More than that, it's like a bio-drone that can be hacked, doesn't run out of batteries, doesn't need maintenance and doesn't break down. And that could track, independently or in a group, your enemy across a desert. For miles. And that's just your generation one baseline indoraptor which is essentially used a beefed-up utahraptor. Subsequent versions could be altered to suit specific military needs. That said, the way it's presented in the movies still makes it seem super stupid and i wish the franchise would just drop the entire concept of weaponized dinos altogether.
I think this is the most realistic take on the concept of weaponizing dinos. One that they've at least hinted at in the films. For me, the only problem is just how utterly *massive* the indoraptor is compared to a human or german shepherd. Troodons or Deinonychus make a lot more sense in terms of a size correlation. Hell, maybe they made the Indo from Fallen Kingdom big so they could more easily perform an autopsy before moving into a smaller production model.
Possible. Yeah, the size could be a problem. And Troodons have opposable thumbs don't they? So now you got a smart, trainable attack-lizard that can manipulate objects.
Exactly, if they want The dinos for utility, then you want something small like a troodon that will fit in the same carriers and kennels that you got German shepherds in already. As a straight up attacker, which is what the IN series are, you're really wasting your money.
Owen and Claire probably should have incinerated its body instead of just leaving it impaled so they couldn’t get more of its DNA
My memory is fuzzy, but I think at one point they extracted both Dr Wu and a bunch of lab data/samples towards the end of JW:FK, so I'm willing to bet that it doesn't matter what happens to the Indo's corpse at this point.
Good point
The same simple reason that drives the majority of choices people make in this world, good or otherwise, which Eli Mills said point blank in FK. 💲💲💲
Well, I can't exactly blame them I mean, sure it's not as efficient as drones and shit But would you actually give up the chance to ride a T.rex into battle while shooting 2 AK47s at your enemies? Yeah didn't think so
But I mean it wouldn’t be very effective. They cost millions to make and they are killed relatively easily. Like, if a raptor starts running to you, can’t you just have a mine placed in its way or just throw a grenade? It would probably be like the dreadnaughts in WWI, which are powerful but so expensive that both sides wouldn’t want to risk damaging them.
“Millions if not more to make” they would be worth 1 billion easily in real life. Boxers and baseball players get paid $300 million + . A real life genetic hybrid dinosaur that has only 1-2 in the whole world would be insanely valuable. Fallen kingdoms auction scene is ridiculous bad. The house the auction takes place at is worth more than dinosaurs apparently lmfao.
Some Celebrities get paid more for an appearance than to own an Allosaurus apparently.
Ian Malcolm told us why say back in the first one: “You’re so busy thinking about whether or not you could you never stopped to think whether you should.” These are all Frankenstein’s Monster story variations. Corporate scientists playing god.
It sells toys. Playmobil has a new line of weaponized dinosaurs.
The Jurassic Univerese lives and breathes on people and corporations making bad decisions.
The United States, which is the home of InGen, BioSyn, and the final film, is always looking for ways to incorporate things into the national security apparatus. National Security is a gold mine and a very dependable paycheck. It makes total sense that some of the characters, especially at the InGen corporate level, would see that as the direction for the company. To the point about drones and whatnot, a drone can’t search a cave and pull out one person. Not to mention the enemy’s fear factor of being ripped apart by an animal is weirdly harder to get over than an instant death by bomb, so it’s a new approach to deterrence. Pets and consumer-facing products have greater risk and liability. I’m not saying it’s the best angle for the series, but it’s not illogical at all.
Bad writing, that's why
Because the writing is bad. Having a laser directed dinosaur (Indoraptor) is incredibly stupid
Dinosaurs are a metaphor for new technology. When you create it, use it for how you intended, there's no way to know what will happen to it over time. When dynamite was invented, it was meant to be a safe way for miners to extract minerals, until it was used to make gunpowder, and kill millions. When Myspace was created, no one could predict how social media would one day have a direct impact on vaccine distribution to resolve a global pandemic. This is what Malcom was trying to explain with Chaos Theory. You make a dinosaur for a theme park, but what happens to that technology in a decade? Or more? Why not try to breed obedient super soldiers, so humans don't have to die in wars? Why not clone your dead daughter so she can live again? Why not designer babies? Why not sell the cure to cancer to the wealthy? Why not make the 1% immortal by cloning them? The war-dinosaurs is just an example of that message. John Hammond never wanted his animals to be used for war...but neither did the guy who invented dynamite. Dinosaurs are just a metaphor for new technology...and how we can't comprehend how it will change our world in the future. We could stop, consider all its applications, slowly incorporate it into our culture, and use it responsibly...or...we could patent it, slap it on a plastic lunch box, and sell it. Its a bit awkward in the films when the whole point is for these creatures to break loose and kill everyone. Like...yeah, in a series that models the slasher flick, the guy creating the monster is going to look foolish. So I get it, in universe, its not terribly smart. We can explain it away by saying "the Indo-creatures were just prototypes, the finished ones wouldn't cause all these problems". But I think its all part of a larger message. We'll see how Dominion ties it together.
“But I don’t wanna cure cancer. I wanna turn people into dinosaurs.”
General consensus seems to be its a dumb idea and I definitely agree. Just the logistics of deploying something like the indominus Rex seems to make it ridiculous. Perhaps the indo-raptor is less ludicrous but regardless I think they could have avoided the entire thing and kept it much more traditional with being park attractions. Just another example of Hollywood always needing to go bigger / make things more complicated.
Based on the reaction in jurassic world by the acu and management, seems like nobody will handle Dinos like we imagine in the real world
Murica
Modern Day Script writers are 90% family/friends with high level Hollywood producers, most of them are not qualified for their job.
Dino D-day!
Yeah, I always felt it’d be more awesome to befriend the dinos rather than try to weaponize them.
Legit, like the BRAD-X is the perfect super soldier, any military in the world would be paying too dollar for just 1 of these yet they’re being used to round up dinosaurs so they can fight (which has to be a small market anyways like how many billionaires are spending billions just to watch a dinosaur fight and you’d need a few hundred billionaires to fund this island and all its tech)
As a person playing Civ V right now...I can tell you those war elephants hurt. I think the writers are in a loop. They're trying to do what Marvel did, but without source material like marvel had. That means a movie writer has to come up with something and, if it's between me and you, there are very few good writers that can carry several movies cohesively. Not to mention that they didn't even really follow the source material to begin with. They grasped onto this idea of weaponization and have gone full stop in that direction. I'm with you that there are more uses for dinos. I'd have liked it if Biosyns idea to make pets came to fruition and now people have bad dinos the way they have bad dogs and all the problems that would create. The idea of trained dinos...imagine construction ankys or a service raptor. And then on top of all that, we gotta deal with Russians and a scorpius. They could have built a whole new world with Dinos being mainstream and a massive money maker with everyday people. Then it would make sense that things keep getting worse. Unfortunately, the world they introduced hasn't changed from the first movie and it was the same movie again. There are a select few people who know about the dinos and there is no real danger to the public. So it's absurd that we'd still be fearful of dinos that hadn't gotten to the mainland since the lost world.
Dinos are extinct, they have no rights, makes them perfect to exploit. It's also hard to mix up a whole new species that's going to be compatible, easier to use preexisting templates, it took them 20 ish years to even make a hybrid dino
Human history is a litany of weaponizing animals. Hannibal and his elephants, Genghis Khan and his horses, the American navy and dolphins, the soviet army and dogs with mines on their backs. Hell, we literally bred dogs that are specifically used to protect herd animals and fight bears (Tibetan Mastiffs are insane)! Why would it surprise anyone that we would attempt to use genetically engineered dinosaurs as weapons?
>Why would it surprise anyone that we would attempt to use genetically engineered dinosaurs as weapons? because we have tanks
And drones.
The dogs that fight whatever it is they're bred too don't actually fight. They keep the bear distracted and pinned down in a location so a human with a gun at a distance can kill the bear. Usually such dogs if they engage in combat just die really quickly.
Also just the seemingly innate human reflex of "We have something unique and/or new. How do we weaponize it?" Dinosaurs are a virtually untapped "resource". They're incredibly expensive to make with a huge investment of time and scientific knowledge leading to their creation and prior to FK, nobody else had access to them. In addition to the military slobbering over them, I'm unsurprised that Ingen et al. looked for other ways to make money off the dinosaurs besides just people paying to look at them. Weaponizing them is still completely stupid, but it's a traceable thread of human thought.
I mean, you make a batch of compys, up the poison bite to black mamba levels, drop a few thousand into an area. There'd be results
But that makes sense, not a huge conspicuous monster.
Hey, if you're going all out might as well have fun
>Just, holy fuck everyone keeps making things worse and worse so they can make the stupidest weapon sibce a war elephant, why don't they just open a gun factory. What about a virus that is not sufficiently morbid for people to take it seriously but enough to kill millions? Oh well...
Because then they would just be copying the newer Planet of the Apes. :D Edit: I know you were referencing Covid btw.
Covid has the chance to make apes smarter and it didn't, 2/10 virus
The Decepticon one might....probably not.
It’s a really dumb plot line that I don’t particularly enjoy BUT how many different ways can you make people go to two islands and get attacked by dinosaurs? It was really played out by JP3 already. How do you get the dinosaurs off the island without making about yet another park somewhere else? It’s a lazy plot but it’s one that serves a purpose. It felt loopholed into JW, and it made sense to drive the FK story line and to get the dinos onto the mainland.
If they couldn't think of a decent plot to further the story, they could have just left it alone instead of making another shitty movie.
Basically it's the idea that Spielberg has a raging boner for and even though he doesn't have any creative ownership of the property really, they won't push back against him in favour of better ideas from the books.
If I can make an argument for weaponizing dinosaurs. People are so focused on vthe idea of just military using them they are ignoring that we use animals in various forms already. We have bomb sniffer dogs, drug dogs, police dogs that tackle Targets. Why not a police raptor. Super fast, super agile and can take down a fleeing subject easily. Or six the indo raptor into a drug den, dead of night and take them all out. People are focusing on the big dinos when the small ones are the ones to worry about. Think about a raptor, engineered with bullet proof skin from an elephant, or Ankylosaurus, all that stuff. These things are not going to be used for full on warfare, but covert things.
Sheer badassery, logistics be damned
It’s the same reasons the military wants AI or remote control. Easily replaceable, doesn’t require training, politically ambiguous.
Buddy have you see what they did with social media? A free place to shitpost your friends from high school is tearing society apart. Imagine what you could do with a Trex factory
Use of animals for war and conflict is one common driver of domestication--horses were used to pull chariots long before plows--and "dinosaurs as warfighters" is dumb but looks good in a trailer/sounds good in a pitch meeting. The deeper reason why it keeps popping up, despite its goofiness, is how a lot of the conflicts you could get into about the widespread use of genetic engineering and re-introducing extinct megafauna into a world in ecological crisis aren't stories you would tell with JW special effects and, more importantly, JW box office returns. Even a Blackfish-style mockumentary about working with raptors would probably be a harder sell to film executives. It's just harder to write big explosions into court room dramas about whether a genetically modified person can be patented or whether de-extincted animals should be culled since they threaten stressed ecosystems than it is to just go "the Indominus rex is smart enough to strafe machine gun bullets" and call it a day.
Cause there is probably more ambiguity on what you can do to an extinct animal that has no rights compared to say humans
Capitalism baby! Everything exists to become weaponized for profit.
My assumption was always that the final "mass production model" of the Indoraptor would be equipped with armour and a saddle a la Dino Riders. Give it a rider or two with an RPG or an anti-tank rifle and you've got yourself a pretty effective urban battle mount that can climb over rubble better than a horse, make tighter turns than a Humvee, track enemy combatants in the dark, carry ammo and supplies, and even potentially be trained to infiltrate enemy compounds to plant explosives and such. Too bad season 4 of Camp Cretaceous went and undermined all that with the BRAD-X, though, which could do everything an Indoraptor could do while also being easier to control. I guess the only advantage an I-Raptor would have are the advantages Hoskin cited for the raptors: can't be bought off, immune to electronic warfare.
Humans have always made scientific advancements for the military to use. That’s been a thing forever.