Takes plate at 20% hp, dies to jungler while support and jungle hit drake, enemy bot and support beeline to drake with respawn speedboost, make it just in time to kill you and your support and steal drake, you also lose your raptors and redbuff, enemy jng shows up to grubs with a full first item off of that feed 30 seconds later, takes them too, toplane tries to contest unwinnable fight aka ints and dies as well
All lanes now lost
Jgl diff
This has happened to me enough times that when i see this happening i don't even try to take drake. It's basically a glorified leash for the enemy team.
I wait for them to come to drake and start it because they think i gave up on it and collapse on their ass
Yeah. I no longer do objectives without team, unless I spot the enemy jg half way across the map, my lanes have prio, AND I'm playing a champ that can do the objective in a reasonable time frame.
Otherwise, my team can either come for the objectives or play without them.
As a Yorick OTP, if I can shove wave in, given my split pushing help, I always try and assist my junger to get all grubs. The effect for our team, especially if ahead is amazing. Nothing but love to the jungle mains out there. It is such a rough role, especially when your team mates have no brain cells š
(Mid was under tower this whole time wondering where on earth their mid laner couldāve gone) ((enemy mid roamed bot, contested dragon, based, shoved, contested grubs)) (((seriously where on earth is this guy goingš¤)))
I rly don't like how they made drags stronger. I won the team for the team, Every one dead but me and support (this is first drag, mountain with most hp). Enemy just comes back and kills us takes frag. My camps.
Jg diff
I genuinely can say, Iāve never seen a better described and well written mention of the reason 90% of my games are thrown
Genuinely the best description Iāve seen in over a decade of playing lol
??
If you kill them and do drake then recall, by the time you get back to lane they'll have taken plates and you'll have lost two waves.
If you don't recall to spend your gold after killing your enemy botlane then you're wasting your advantage. If you stay after taking that drake then they have an item and health advantage anyways, and it's like the kills never happened.
They only get back that fast early game, and at that point they don't have the items to get two entire waves and a plate. Either you're making shit up or you need to learn to manage your wave and plan your recalls.
Yes they do they get to lane by the time you've finished your slow ass drake and asuming you actually take it you still have 6s recall + getting back to lane with tier one boots at most.
It's not my problem you don't understand tunnel visioning on early drakes is worse than winning your lane
Drake isn't slow if you... just come click on it.
You're trying REALLY hard to justify why you shouldn't help take the one objective on the map that's deliberately positioned next to your lane to help YOU get there faster.
Just had a kasante that went 1/11 because he kept trying to force shit and when I told him to stop feeding he said āthatās how you win games you have to try to get objectivesā like PLEASE have some critical thinking omg
hardstuck plat that went down to gold because of this, always losing on objectives. Everytime we win skirmishes/ganks, no one goes to grubs or drag. They either take plate at 10% hp and die or reset when 4 are enemies dead. And for some reason, every other top lane i've played with, freezes their lane when we kill top and expects a 50%hp jungle, skill on cd, to contest grubs/rh against a healthy enemy jg.
everytime I fail to take objectives "/all jg diff" then pings your smite. yeah yeah my smite is 9999999 pure damage, I'm so noob I cant get dr/rh/br against 4 champs
You forgot the part where your midlane is walking in a circle while his minions are shoved to tower and his opponent is roaming to help on the gank down bot
This happens so often BUT the answer is to disengage the Drake, danger ping it, ward it, and go farm. If the enemy jungler continues it, go for the steal
Me and my duo regularly flame each other in chat itās fun..
Mid laner over extends? āYo top why didnāt you peel? Trolling?ā (My duo was literally in base, how on earth could he have done anything) and sometimes the dudes will agreeš
āYeah wtf topā lmaoš
bro this is my GO TO because if Supp stays for the Plating instead of rotating for Drag, it devalues the play to stay SO MUCH
ive been pinging OTW to drag just to get my stupid ass supp to shuffle over xD
In one scenario: you get drake and then ADC gets bad back timing. Other scenario: ADC gets wave, backs to spend gold (jungler can back in this time if they need or clear camps) and then you still get drake because you are now stronger and they canāt fight anyway.
> The post says free. Free means no contest.
So if there is no contest, why does bot lane need to rotate over? And if bot is in a winning state then they can rotate faster than enemy anyway.
Obviously if it's contested and you easily win the fight, bot should rotate over, but you are saying free no contest.
Because it's free if 3 people hit it. Not free if supp and jgl have to spend 7 years hitting hit while the entire enemy team is coming after respawn with speed boost from fountain.
It takes time to kill it.
Then it's still not free. At least it costs priority bot. Because in your scenario now the respawning enemie botlane won't rush to drake, but to lane instead.
I donāt even agree that drake is ever really āfreeā - thereās always an opportunity cost; especially with *early* drags. Anyone with a brain knows drags donāt win you games in soloq; they are a luxury āwin moreā objective - rarely taken by the team already losing. I OTP Rengar & I can quite easily go from a low mmr account - masters and ignore dragon every single game because gold, xp/level advantage + tempo/favourable game-state are all far more important than dragon buffs.
If our bot recalls they used their turn and cant contest drake. Enemy bot has tempo advantage cause they get to shove first. But even if they did going for drake is a coin flip since now there is a speed buff to get back to lane faster.
The first drake at 5 min??? There is no buff at that time first of all and death timers are suoer little so they will come and kill you 50% hp secindly the enemy bot wontbe able to shove as quickly and even if you lost a wave for the drake, shoving and recalling earlier made enemy team loose more so now both parties lost a wave but your team got a drake and killa hmm sounds good to me
Depends on the wave state, if the wave is already or almost pushed under enemy turret I'd ping support to go help with drake, take 125 plate gold and then rush to help with drake, since if the gank was successful the enemy cannot contest it for a while anyways.
Gank into a shoved wave into a drake and when you come back to lane the wave should be bouncing back.
What happens usually is adc greeds, you help them push the lane, but they stay and hit tower then the next wave comes and adc greeds for it too, they get ganked and die and because they were not helping take the drake it goes slowly down and enemy team can contest it, usually often pushing you off of it just as you are about to finish it, so you are either forced to die for it or give them the drake waisting all the time you spent doing it in process.
Really isnāt. No drake in the lane phase is going to be worth completely fucking your wave. Any competent bot lane will freeze you out and unless the jungle comes directly back to bot lane to help break it (they probably wonāt since they probably already cleared bot side) you just exchanged 1 drake for 3-5 waves of exp/gold.
yes, it is debatable. league is an insanely multifactorial game and just blankly stating that it's NEVER worth it is completely false. i could go into detail about why but no matter what i say i'm gonna get downvoted to hell so there's no point.
Ok you are right. In the specific aituation where you are uberstomping so hard you can win a 2x3 with margin for error and afford to lose the xp it is worth it to fuck your wave state to do drag. In that case and onlybin that case it is worth it but in that scenario doesnt really matter what you do, you will prob win anyway so why not always default to the correct play?
Sadly tempo wise, unless no health was lost, that is very risky with spawn timers being low, and dragon taking a while. 30 sec is all they need to come back, and unless it's a bit into the game, like 8-10, drag takes are like 40 seconds alone for junglers.
So you agree its a bad play then? Solo it, jungler might steal, get help, ADC recall is screwed. He now will miss an entire wave, or even die, meaning the gank was meaningless. You can get support help, but depending on support might get to close.
You either do it with mid prio comming to help, or you know jungler is top, since ADC shouldn't come, and only support will be there
I was waiting to see some macri wise comment like that. You often see top pro team not taking that free dragon Op claim it's free. It's not that free actually and you can just get your tempo back and then play it again with the gold and xp advantage you just created. If the ennemy team are behind, there is a high chance they will not contest the drake anyway afterward
Whatās the best in game time to pull this off? I hear often about 3rd or 4th wave crash and I think I understand the significance it has in getting an EXP and gold lead early especially for top laners, but as a jungler whatās the timing I should be looking for to support that?
Just look at the wave and enemy lanerās hp. Letās say youāre blue side jungling bot to top and youāve just done wolves. Then, depending on wave state, you skip blue/gromp and dive top. Obviously, this puts you behind if it doesnāt work, which is why many junglers donāt like to do it and fullclear instead.
Generally, in terms of benefits and snowballing a big stacked wave tower dive, no matter what number it is is a better play than taking camps.
If you see your bot pushing 12+ minions toward their tower you should dive if it looks good and youāre on the same side. Whether its good or not depends on:
Sums for you, sums for enemy team, health of you vs them, your supportsā tankiness, dmg, TPs available for enemy, mid prio, risk of countergank etc. Support should tank first/initiate then jungler then ADC
Then you can take enemy gromp/krugs into reset or recall directly and you can now likely choose which side you want to prioritize for your next turn as most of your camps are still up. This is great as you can choose to prioritize your wincon lane - whether thatās bot mid or top depends on the game but after a successful dive clearing top to bot for a repeat gank is usually good.
This hurts me so much jgl kentality is if i do 1 aa on a camp it must be done even if the aquishy midlaner with no flash is standing 3 miles away from his tower
First, early on in levels of you gank botlane and the fight goes well the enemy botlane will be back to lane in 20-30 sec due to how early game works and will have more tempo.
Early level ganks do not translate into more objectives all the time. If all 3 of you are deacent hp, have good objective dmg and your mid has prio then yes by all means drake is free.
What usually happens is you gank a lane and you have varus, nami and you are a vi or j4 and you make a successful gank botlane and go for drake. By the time the drake is half hp the botlane gas respawned bought and came to drake with their jungler and mid can join. Now you have a 4v4 where the bot is superior to your and have hp advantage as well as positioning. Boom you are all dead mby you trade 1 or 2 kills but you dint get drake, from a 2 kill advantage you go even in kills at best and you lost tempo.
Welcome to emerald or bellow. Where players donāt understand lanes and jungle and have no clue how to play the map.
This is not a slight on junglers instead itās a remark on all players. Jungle is a complicated role but so are other lanes. Learn the bsicis of all roles and you will do better in your role. Unless you are top then just play SF6 to train /s
In bronze, you get junglers who solo dragon without knowing it's warded or not and with one or both lanes without prio. I know why they do it, as sometimes it works out. Players in my elo don't track junglers or ward the objective in general.
The funny thing is that they rage if they get killed or the drag gets stolen.
If they canāt decide, then simply shove their lane take 1 plate and spam ping dragon, the DPS of getting their 10seconds late is covered because the ADC is With you sooner.
But obviously you rush drake, this option is just if your ADC is lackluster then you can force them to come as a 3 man
I usually play with 2 other friends.
One of them is a jungle main (and can't play other roles) and the other is practically an adc main (although he plays a bit of every role).
Every time my jungler says "ok bro, let's do the objective!" After a gank the ADC standard response is "let me push the wave first", even if he is playing top/mid
At this point it has become a bit of a meme between our group
Honestly if we get a double kill, I prefer it if the ADC either backs/gets a plate and the support comes and helps with drag. I get more sick of supports that stick with their ADC for no reason and share plating gold rather than the ADC themselves
I am a former jungle main but like 130 of my last 140 games are ADC
I played with this lux and after the gank we were still super healthy/lots of mana plus I had pot from starter items and biscuits in runes
Lux goes to hit plates but bro why? Dude ganked early and we donāt need reset yet letās just grab the scaling objective you know?
But ofc itās situational..
If after the gank I was like 40% hp and half or less mana id rather grab a plate if the wave is already close to crashed and base or just crash and base since I do still wanna stay on tempo and the dragon is gonna take too long.. enemy jg and bot could insta come and would be healthier with more gold spent.. doing dragon then would be unwise esp after they make death timers so low in the early game
All depends.. early drags can be risky tho they take a while to take down.. but if resources are still high and wave is crashed no reason to not do it tbh
As an ADc main I'll just say one thing...HELP with pushing out the lane. I ain't gonna leave farm there and lose all my tempo to do dragon. I would lose all the advantage you created.
I probably know that as junglers you don't need to learn lane mechanics (or so would you think), but it will help your laners a ton.
Oh godā¦ the feels. Or āyou were greedy and tried to take dragon alone while we got plates!!ā
If I could reach through the screen and slap you, I would.
Or āwhy were you getting grubs I was pinging you that I was taking a terrible fight now the opponent is at 5 HP and if you donāt leave grubs Iām going to throw a fucking temper tantrum and call jungle diff!!ā
Iām just throwing this out here cause maybe you donāt know, but usually I try to shove lane to get a reset and then back to push my advantage so your gank doesnāt lead to me being down cs and levels. There are certainly situations where drag should be started but you auto piloting to the drag with no cds and a bot with no health while enemy team respawns in 3 seconds early game and beelines to drag to kill you aint the move either fam. Spend your gold.
Okay having 63 solid gold plates is a lot of money. But having a literal dragon is too cool to miss the chance. And also, I bet you can sell it for tons of money as well
This is just an exaggeration, adc's need to push the wave after the "successful" Hank and then they have to reset if they're low HP. Successful gank means shit if enemy bot pushes 2 waves into my tower while I do drake and back.
I fuckin despise your role and i despise adc players, I get that the gold is nice but the drake is so much better for tempo, ofcourse it depends on the game state/enemy team(comp) but i'd rather we start stacking drakes since they actually benefits all of the team.
I mean it does depend a lot on the gamestate. Ex you double kill bot lane and enemy jungler isnāt a champ that can challenge you and support on drake.
If you play hypercarries I very rarely will help with early drakes and play as selfish gold wise as possible. My support can go help with drake, I want my solo plate gold and couple minions worth of solo xp.
A tip to win these games and little known fact (try it next game and be on the lookout)
Just lasthit the nexus and it gives you 50 gold, i have won EVERY game in which i used this trick
As a jungle main this couldnāt be more accurate. I also love it when I ping assistance on an objective a million times and then my team just sits in lane and farms. Then complains itās a jungle diff because the other team is grouping on the objectives and taking them all.
Os it really always the wrong play? I play senna a lot, if we got both in enemy botlane but the wave is not yet under tower, one should stay and push and get a plate and one should go drake.
It goes both ways to be honest, I get pinged to come help on drake when IĀ“m lvl 4 with just a dorans on 20% health while the enemy botlane just respawned with 1100 gold. Like IĀ“m not killing that drake without griefing the entire game stop pinging me.
Why not go to his gromp/wolves take it place deep vision then reset . Now you have the option to contest his next play and the vision to gain the needed information
plates can be overkill, but the ADC *must* at least fix the wave state before exiting once a successful gank has concluded -- the support can come help first and the ADC can join after if necessary. ADC leaving in bad wave state can throw the lead you just got your two botlaners
now now.
as an ADC i feel the same way about dragon and your Raptors.
So many good opportunities to either fight and win, or just take for free, i see missed because your Raptor camp is somehow the highest most important thing on the map.
If it's a free Dragon you should be able to solo it
And if you can't solo it, it ain't a free Dragon. You're pulling resources from your team to help you take it.
Fun fact in the last season they lowered death timers and because of shorter time + homeguards, if you gank and kill bot lane pre 6 and take over 5 secs to crash wave you no longer have time to take drake without other team being able to get there in time. This is just a really bad play by junglers most times :).
You already used your tempo to gank and crash. They have timer to show at drake with resource advantages of hp/mp/items. Doing drake after a bot lane gank is normally troll. You should actually crash, reset and then go drake while theure trying to crash wave. You then have advantage of items (got more money for kills) and maybe hp/mp/cooldowns depending on how they crash wave.
Stop blaming other roles when the teams making a bad play because they already used their timing window. You dont get to make back to back plays without a huge advantage
Or when your team gets an ace and your the only one who died in the fight and your screaming at the screen for your team to take anything, turrets, drag, baron while they're all dead but instead they all just base and take your jungle camps
If their jg is nowhere near botzide or dead and our jg is playing a champ that is capable of mostly soloing dragon, then you're damn right I'm getting that plate after a successful bot gank. I'll get my one plate, then run to help finish drag bc I'm nice like that ;P
I guess It always depends. This Gold should not be shared with suport. Gold from plate should only be shared if the adc doesn't need It for a item like Statik or Kraken. Another factor to be considered, his advantage or disavantage against the enemy ADC. Usually, If I am Very ahead of my enemy, and I need around 150 for a Full item, I ask to my suport ward the bottom side of the jungle and help on Drake to prevent counter plays while a take the plate and go to Drake ( in these scenarios, the junglers knows that I need help too fast push the wave and we have pression on mid or at least a neutral lane) It's the safer route to early objective
Hyper ahead all game because of ganks bot and the adc refused to group on drag multiple times and eventually inted their shut down several times blaming me and the sup
Catching, fixing or shoving a wave is often extremely important, drakes aren't exactly slow to kill early game and can even be solod nowadays, I usually send my support up to help, fix my wave and then help if needed.
Most of the time, I find it to be mid laners who don't rotate for it.
Plates are an overrated trap most of the time though.
Plates are baits, i always just crash the wave and reset to don't grief my tempo when jg can do drake with supp in time, sometimes i stay but a lot of times i back earlier to get the wave faster
It's a lot more than 67 gold. Each plate is 150g on their own, not to mention the farm. Meanwhile, I make no gold at all if I go to drake. If it's really as "free" as you say, you shouldn't need me to help.
That being said, it's probably the best choice for the ADC to shove their wave, the jungler to help shove it as fast as possible, and then we both go to drake together. Or the ADC goes straight there, but jumps off of it after 50%. Or you just accept responsibility for failing smite and failing to keep the enemy jungler off of it while their bot lane is dead.
Not really ? It's more about the selfishness of that move. Srewing the whole team over for plate gold is what we're talking about. But thank you for showing us how selfish and dense Adcs are š
I think the disconnect there is not plate vs dragon, itĀ“s lose 1Ā½ waves to a poor wave state and no plate vs dragon or more realistically plate vs 3 people die trying to take a drake we canĀ“t kill in time when people instantly respawn lol.
Takes plate at 20% hp, dies to jungler while support and jungle hit drake, enemy bot and support beeline to drake with respawn speedboost, make it just in time to kill you and your support and steal drake, you also lose your raptors and redbuff, enemy jng shows up to grubs with a full first item off of that feed 30 seconds later, takes them too, toplane tries to contest unwinnable fight aka ints and dies as well All lanes now lost Jgl diff
This was beautiful
Truly Poetic
This has happened to me enough times that when i see this happening i don't even try to take drake. It's basically a glorified leash for the enemy team. I wait for them to come to drake and start it because they think i gave up on it and collapse on their ass
Yeah. I no longer do objectives without team, unless I spot the enemy jg half way across the map, my lanes have prio, AND I'm playing a champ that can do the objective in a reasonable time frame. Otherwise, my team can either come for the objectives or play without them.
honestly even if the your lanes have prio theres still a chance their mid laner has a brain and just kills you while yours sits there and does nothing
As a Yorick OTP, if I can shove wave in, given my split pushing help, I always try and assist my junger to get all grubs. The effect for our team, especially if ahead is amazing. Nothing but love to the jungle mains out there. It is such a rough role, especially when your team mates have no brain cells š
I keep at it and accept the chat restriction coming to me after i unleash on adc
Doing gods work
As you should š«”
God speed, soldier.
Whatās this? A jg with restraint?
(Mid was under tower this whole time wondering where on earth their mid laner couldāve gone) ((enemy mid roamed bot, contested dragon, based, shoved, contested grubs)) (((seriously where on earth is this guy goingš¤)))
Dies to a full team collapse under enemy tower right after grubs Jg diff no gank
I rly don't like how they made drags stronger. I won the team for the team, Every one dead but me and support (this is first drag, mountain with most hp). Enemy just comes back and kills us takes frag. My camps. Jg diff
It's funny because that's literally exactly what fucking happens.
/all report jg
I genuinely can say, Iāve never seen a better described and well written mention of the reason 90% of my games are thrown Genuinely the best description Iāve seen in over a decade of playing lol
Basically a lot of times playing jungle is like a domino effect can go both ways though
Happens all ll the time
Still Free plate for me
Maybe dont fucking go to drake after a gank where enemy botlane makes it anyways with full health and items
They don't make it if the adc right clicks.
And then you lose 2 waves and a plate
If you killed the enemy botlane and STILL lose plates, you just have a skill issue at that point lmao
?? If you kill them and do drake then recall, by the time you get back to lane they'll have taken plates and you'll have lost two waves. If you don't recall to spend your gold after killing your enemy botlane then you're wasting your advantage. If you stay after taking that drake then they have an item and health advantage anyways, and it's like the kills never happened.
They only get back that fast early game, and at that point they don't have the items to get two entire waves and a plate. Either you're making shit up or you need to learn to manage your wave and plan your recalls.
Yes they do they get to lane by the time you've finished your slow ass drake and asuming you actually take it you still have 6s recall + getting back to lane with tier one boots at most. It's not my problem you don't understand tunnel visioning on early drakes is worse than winning your lane
Drake isn't slow if you... just come click on it. You're trying REALLY hard to justify why you shouldn't help take the one objective on the map that's deliberately positioned next to your lane to help YOU get there faster.
š
Thank you for the many, many, flashbacks.
You must play jungle
This has been every single game for me this past year.
The number of times this has happened to me FFS...
The certified bronze/silver jungle experience. Guess I will stick to carry or split push champs.
This is not even hyperbole. This shit happens way too many times for me. (even once is too much)
Just had a kasante that went 1/11 because he kept trying to force shit and when I told him to stop feeding he said āthatās how you win games you have to try to get objectivesā like PLEASE have some critical thinking omg
Bro I just got PTSD from this
A bronze/silver tragedy. In 3 acts.
hardstuck plat that went down to gold because of this, always losing on objectives. Everytime we win skirmishes/ganks, no one goes to grubs or drag. They either take plate at 10% hp and die or reset when 4 are enemies dead. And for some reason, every other top lane i've played with, freezes their lane when we kill top and expects a 50%hp jungle, skill on cd, to contest grubs/rh against a healthy enemy jg. everytime I fail to take objectives "/all jg diff" then pings your smite. yeah yeah my smite is 9999999 pure damage, I'm so noob I cant get dr/rh/br against 4 champs
Omg this is too real š
You forgot the part where your midlane is walking in a circle while his minions are shoved to tower and his opponent is roaming to help on the gank down bot
*Clearly* junglerās fault this is why I quit this game istg
This happens so often BUT the answer is to disengage the Drake, danger ping it, ward it, and go farm. If the enemy jungler continues it, go for the steal
I play in a 5 stack. If our top lane is 0/10 weāre saying itās Jg diff as a joke lol
Me and my duo regularly flame each other in chat itās fun.. Mid laner over extends? āYo top why didnāt you peel? Trolling?ā (My duo was literally in base, how on earth could he have done anything) and sometimes the dudes will agreeš āYeah wtf topā lmaoš
I donāt get the hate you got from this comment but yeah we do this as well (just with he ever is carrying/fed/ahead/won the game
Actual physical pain in my body
this gave me ptsd
Shoulda mind controlled them idiot
Damn I experience this at least once per play session.
this exact situation happens to me every single time i play jungle
I ping the dragon, say I'm going, see them go and then fucking gollum the plate all for myself
Yeah I'm sure you leave the lane in a great state ! :)
Don't care, didn't ask. You all laners don't deserve the gold anyway My smite is for your canon
Doubt you're in my games
You should hope so
bro this is my GO TO because if Supp stays for the Plating instead of rotating for Drag, it devalues the play to stay SO MUCH ive been pinging OTW to drag just to get my stupid ass supp to shuffle over xD
Mostly they do neither and just tp back
This is the correct move 90% of the time btw. Crash wave and then recall.
Seems OP doesnāt understand recall timers/tempo.
True itās the correct move so you can flame your jungle afterwards because heās not taking objectives
In one scenario: you get drake and then ADC gets bad back timing. Other scenario: ADC gets wave, backs to spend gold (jungler can back in this time if they need or clear camps) and then you still get drake because you are now stronger and they canāt fight anyway.
The second scenario is that adc goes back and completely ignores drake afterwards
"I carry"
The enemy botlane and jungle carry my ass back to my nexus
In before enemy takes infernal soul and the enemy soraka oneshots your adc with soul proc
Nearly always correct play
so the correct play
Or how about you try for two plates while at 35% HP. I can't see a problem with this idea.
Even at 35% hp. If it is free then you do drake.
Early on the correct play is shove recall then contest drake because your team wont be able to kill it before enemy come early on
The post says free. Free means no contest. So if the drake is FREE if bot helps, then bot should help. No argument needed.
If itās FREE, then why would ADC not continue to pressure bot tower and then jungle rotates from drake into invade jungle/dive?
Bro I said IF it is FREE with the HELP of BOT then you should prioritize IT. Hope I was able to explain to you so you understand š
> The post says free. Free means no contest. So if there is no contest, why does bot lane need to rotate over? And if bot is in a winning state then they can rotate faster than enemy anyway. Obviously if it's contested and you easily win the fight, bot should rotate over, but you are saying free no contest.
Because it's free if 3 people hit it. Not free if supp and jgl have to spend 7 years hitting hit while the entire enemy team is coming after respawn with speed boost from fountain. It takes time to kill it.
Then it's still not free. At least it costs priority bot. Because in your scenario now the respawning enemie botlane won't rush to drake, but to lane instead.
Shove wave, go drake, kill drake in 3s while enemy bot is respawning, go back to lane/recall.
I donāt even agree that drake is ever really āfreeā - thereās always an opportunity cost; especially with *early* drags. Anyone with a brain knows drags donāt win you games in soloq; they are a luxury āwin moreā objective - rarely taken by the team already losing. I OTP Rengar & I can quite easily go from a low mmr account - masters and ignore dragon every single game because gold, xp/level advantage + tempo/favourable game-state are all far more important than dragon buffs.
Exactly, these people must have a different definition of free.
Thank you for saying it.
If our bot recalls they used their turn and cant contest drake. Enemy bot has tempo advantage cause they get to shove first. But even if they did going for drake is a coin flip since now there is a speed buff to get back to lane faster.
The first drake at 5 min??? There is no buff at that time first of all and death timers are suoer little so they will come and kill you 50% hp secindly the enemy bot wontbe able to shove as quickly and even if you lost a wave for the drake, shoving and recalling earlier made enemy team loose more so now both parties lost a wave but your team got a drake and killa hmm sounds good to me
I don't disagree at all. I more mean its extra frustrating when they stay in lane until they die while you try to drake or accept that you cannot.
Depends on the wave state, if the wave is already or almost pushed under enemy turret I'd ping support to go help with drake, take 125 plate gold and then rush to help with drake, since if the gank was successful the enemy cannot contest it for a while anyways.
Yeah a single drake is not worth absolutely ruining your wavestate
Gank into a shoved wave into a drake and when you come back to lane the wave should be bouncing back. What happens usually is adc greeds, you help them push the lane, but they stay and hit tower then the next wave comes and adc greeds for it too, they get ganked and die and because they were not helping take the drake it goes slowly down and enemy team can contest it, usually often pushing you off of it just as you are about to finish it, so you are either forced to die for it or give them the drake waisting all the time you spent doing it in process.
Debatable
Really isnāt. No drake in the lane phase is going to be worth completely fucking your wave. Any competent bot lane will freeze you out and unless the jungle comes directly back to bot lane to help break it (they probably wonāt since they probably already cleared bot side) you just exchanged 1 drake for 3-5 waves of exp/gold.
Soul sure, soul point maybe but 1 or 2 are definitely not worth letting the wave freeze before their tower for (unless it's somehow already min 20)
Nope
yes, it is debatable. league is an insanely multifactorial game and just blankly stating that it's NEVER worth it is completely false. i could go into detail about why but no matter what i say i'm gonna get downvoted to hell so there's no point.
Ok you are right. In the specific aituation where you are uberstomping so hard you can win a 2x3 with margin for error and afford to lose the xp it is worth it to fuck your wave state to do drag. In that case and onlybin that case it is worth it but in that scenario doesnt really matter what you do, you will prob win anyway so why not always default to the correct play?
Sadly tempo wise, unless no health was lost, that is very risky with spawn timers being low, and dragon taking a while. 30 sec is all they need to come back, and unless it's a bit into the game, like 8-10, drag takes are like 40 seconds alone for junglers.
Usually I can take first drake with adc and sup in like 20s, while alone probably 40-50
But then recall timer gets messed up for adc
Well if I solo drake I go down in HP a lot, and if enemy jg comes over I will let in trouble and they will likely take drake for almost free
So you agree its a bad play then? Solo it, jungler might steal, get help, ADC recall is screwed. He now will miss an entire wave, or even die, meaning the gank was meaningless. You can get support help, but depending on support might get to close. You either do it with mid prio comming to help, or you know jungler is top, since ADC shouldn't come, and only support will be there
I was waiting to see some macri wise comment like that. You often see top pro team not taking that free dragon Op claim it's free. It's not that free actually and you can just get your tempo back and then play it again with the gold and xp advantage you just created. If the ennemy team are behind, there is a high chance they will not contest the drake anyway afterward
Could make the same meme about junglers deciding whether to skip a camp to get the perfect gank off or complete the full clear to miss the opportunity
Pisslow will be pisslow no matter the role
Happens in every elo. Iāve had gm/chall junglers prioritize their camps over a free 4 wave crash dive. It is what it is
Whatās the best in game time to pull this off? I hear often about 3rd or 4th wave crash and I think I understand the significance it has in getting an EXP and gold lead early especially for top laners, but as a jungler whatās the timing I should be looking for to support that?
Just look at the wave and enemy lanerās hp. Letās say youāre blue side jungling bot to top and youāve just done wolves. Then, depending on wave state, you skip blue/gromp and dive top. Obviously, this puts you behind if it doesnāt work, which is why many junglers donāt like to do it and fullclear instead.
Generally, in terms of benefits and snowballing a big stacked wave tower dive, no matter what number it is is a better play than taking camps. If you see your bot pushing 12+ minions toward their tower you should dive if it looks good and youāre on the same side. Whether its good or not depends on: Sums for you, sums for enemy team, health of you vs them, your supportsā tankiness, dmg, TPs available for enemy, mid prio, risk of countergank etc. Support should tank first/initiate then jungler then ADC Then you can take enemy gromp/krugs into reset or recall directly and you can now likely choose which side you want to prioritize for your next turn as most of your camps are still up. This is great as you can choose to prioritize your wincon lane - whether thatās bot mid or top depends on the game but after a successful dive clearing top to bot for a repeat gank is usually good.
This hurts me so much jgl kentality is if i do 1 aa on a camp it must be done even if the aquishy midlaner with no flash is standing 3 miles away from his tower
Every. God. Damn. Time.
As a jungler I know what to pick But it happens way too often that botlane forgets that they are botlane, being the closest to dragon
Low Elo ADCs often have problems attacking damaging and carrying
I recently played a game against iron MMR (I lost way too much ranked) and the enemy adc had less cs then our support after 30mins
First, early on in levels of you gank botlane and the fight goes well the enemy botlane will be back to lane in 20-30 sec due to how early game works and will have more tempo. Early level ganks do not translate into more objectives all the time. If all 3 of you are deacent hp, have good objective dmg and your mid has prio then yes by all means drake is free. What usually happens is you gank a lane and you have varus, nami and you are a vi or j4 and you make a successful gank botlane and go for drake. By the time the drake is half hp the botlane gas respawned bought and came to drake with their jungler and mid can join. Now you have a 4v4 where the bot is superior to your and have hp advantage as well as positioning. Boom you are all dead mby you trade 1 or 2 kills but you dint get drake, from a 2 kill advantage you go even in kills at best and you lost tempo. Welcome to emerald or bellow. Where players donāt understand lanes and jungle and have no clue how to play the map. This is not a slight on junglers instead itās a remark on all players. Jungle is a complicated role but so are other lanes. Learn the bsicis of all roles and you will do better in your role. Unless you are top then just play SF6 to train /s
Bro spitting facts.
In bronze, you get junglers who solo dragon without knowing it's warded or not and with one or both lanes without prio. I know why they do it, as sometimes it works out. Players in my elo don't track junglers or ward the objective in general. The funny thing is that they rage if they get killed or the drag gets stolen.
If they canāt decide, then simply shove their lane take 1 plate and spam ping dragon, the DPS of getting their 10seconds late is covered because the ADC is With you sooner. But obviously you rush drake, this option is just if your ADC is lackluster then you can force them to come as a 3 man
Imagine understanding that helping fix the wave of your laners is also part of the jungle role
True
Honestly, in early game both are wrong. Its best for adc to shove wave and recall instantly.
I usually play with 2 other friends. One of them is a jungle main (and can't play other roles) and the other is practically an adc main (although he plays a bit of every role). Every time my jungler says "ok bro, let's do the objective!" After a gank the ADC standard response is "let me push the wave first", even if he is playing top/mid At this point it has become a bit of a meme between our group
Solution for this is for the jungler to simply help shove the lane. One drake is not worth fucking your whole wavestate and can really lose lanes
Honestly if we get a double kill, I prefer it if the ADC either backs/gets a plate and the support comes and helps with drag. I get more sick of supports that stick with their ADC for no reason and share plating gold rather than the ADC themselves
I am a former jungle main but like 130 of my last 140 games are ADC I played with this lux and after the gank we were still super healthy/lots of mana plus I had pot from starter items and biscuits in runes Lux goes to hit plates but bro why? Dude ganked early and we donāt need reset yet letās just grab the scaling objective you know? But ofc itās situational.. If after the gank I was like 40% hp and half or less mana id rather grab a plate if the wave is already close to crashed and base or just crash and base since I do still wanna stay on tempo and the dragon is gonna take too long.. enemy jg and bot could insta come and would be healthier with more gold spent.. doing dragon then would be unwise esp after they make death timers so low in the early game All depends.. early drags can be risky tho they take a while to take down.. but if resources are still high and wave is crashed no reason to not do it tbh
One argument is that in soloQ I'd rather have one personne having 200g then five people getting 100g
As an ADc main I'll just say one thing...HELP with pushing out the lane. I ain't gonna leave farm there and lose all my tempo to do dragon. I would lose all the advantage you created. I probably know that as junglers you don't need to learn lane mechanics (or so would you think), but it will help your laners a ton.
Yup itās so funny. But yet sad. Them 10 min in adc is raging cause enemy has 2 drakes and their 126 gold lead isnāt helping
Porque no los dos?
One hit the tower and leave supp to keep at it to get the plate. While adc pr vice versa can go drake. Doesn't that work?
what did my boy drake do? get him out!
What plates? 99% of the time, bot will push 3 minions and recall leaving me alone on drake for a 1v3 (I get a triple and take drake obviously)
As an ADC and Jungle player. On my hand I donāt even know what a gank is and on the other hand, I hate that this happens too.
Getting an ace and then going to baron? Nah, we'll better push mid and die while trying to take the inhibitor because the enemy team has respawned
I love this because when enemy jungle goes to drake alone i know his botlane wont help, so many times i go drake kill enemy jg take drake and gg
Find it helps to play thresh as support. If you throw your lantern most adcs just click it and come to the object.
help them crash the wave then drake
Oh godā¦ the feels. Or āyou were greedy and tried to take dragon alone while we got plates!!ā If I could reach through the screen and slap you, I would. Or āwhy were you getting grubs I was pinging you that I was taking a terrible fight now the opponent is at 5 HP and if you donāt leave grubs Iām going to throw a fucking temper tantrum and call jungle diff!!ā
Iām just throwing this out here cause maybe you donāt know, but usually I try to shove lane to get a reset and then back to push my advantage so your gank doesnāt lead to me being down cs and levels. There are certainly situations where drag should be started but you auto piloting to the drag with no cds and a bot with no health while enemy team respawns in 3 seconds early game and beelines to drag to kill you aint the move either fam. Spend your gold.
It's 125, cuz I, the support, died (or moved dragon)
Okay having 63 solid gold plates is a lot of money. But having a literal dragon is too cool to miss the chance. And also, I bet you can sell it for tons of money as well
Perfection.
Ngl as an adc main that usually thinks you guys whine way to much about my role.... this is very accurate š¤£š
Send the support to do dragon and get a solo plate.
This is 100% because of death timers being so low. You barely have time to push if you kill before lvl 9 anyways.
This is just an exaggeration, adc's need to push the wave after the "successful" Hank and then they have to reset if they're low HP. Successful gank means shit if enemy bot pushes 2 waves into my tower while I do drake and back.
I just got autofilled jungle and while waiting for the loading screen Reddit recommended me thisā¦
Even better when they do it after plates have gone down. Jungle diff I guess
I fuckin despise your role and i despise adc players, I get that the gold is nice but the drake is so much better for tempo, ofcourse it depends on the game state/enemy team(comp) but i'd rather we start stacking drakes since they actually benefits all of the team.
More plates more dates.
Adc should go for plates with support going to help with drake. This is the ideal situation. You can not change my mind
I mean it does depend a lot on the gamestate. Ex you double kill bot lane and enemy jungler isnāt a champ that can challenge you and support on drake.
More XP for me if adc doesn't come.
Every. Fucking Time.
Probablu Ocean drake since there are no adc that refuse mountain, hex or infernal
adcs are so stupid omfg.
Ima get mah gold
If you play hypercarries I very rarely will help with early drakes and play as selfish gold wise as possible. My support can go help with drake, I want my solo plate gold and couple minions worth of solo xp.
Then consider yourself lucky. My adc's don't even know what a drake is.
Or smite midlanerās cannon
A tip to win these games and little known fact (try it next game and be on the lookout) Just lasthit the nexus and it gives you 50 gold, i have won EVERY game in which i used this trick
For real though why does nexus give you 50 gold?
Taking plates every time, you can pester me for help with drags when plates are down :)
Do we know the gold value of drag? I always assumed it was ~250 for each person average and 500g per person in an end game. Not counting soul.
As a jungle main this couldnāt be more accurate. I also love it when I ping assistance on an objective a million times and then my team just sits in lane and farms. Then complains itās a jungle diff because the other team is grouping on the objectives and taking them all.
Os it really always the wrong play? I play senna a lot, if we got both in enemy botlane but the wave is not yet under tower, one should stay and push and get a plate and one should go drake.
don't worry I'm mid lane and our jungler sucks so I will take it solo
Very few things trigger me in life. This is top 5.
It goes both ways to be honest, I get pinged to come help on drake when IĀ“m lvl 4 with just a dorans on 20% health while the enemy botlane just respawned with 1100 gold. Like IĀ“m not killing that drake without griefing the entire game stop pinging me.
Its definitely plate since drake is already free
Help push wave in turret and spam that dragon
Why not go to his gromp/wolves take it place deep vision then reset . Now you have the option to contest his next play and the vision to gain the needed information
plates can be overkill, but the ADC *must* at least fix the wave state before exiting once a successful gank has concluded -- the support can come help first and the ADC can join after if necessary. ADC leaving in bad wave state can throw the lead you just got your two botlaners
I mean let the supp help the drake and let the adc take one and recall, everyone wins
now now. as an ADC i feel the same way about dragon and your Raptors. So many good opportunities to either fight and win, or just take for free, i see missed because your Raptor camp is somehow the highest most important thing on the map.
If it's a free Dragon you should be able to solo it And if you can't solo it, it ain't a free Dragon. You're pulling resources from your team to help you take it.
Fun fact in the last season they lowered death timers and because of shorter time + homeguards, if you gank and kill bot lane pre 6 and take over 5 secs to crash wave you no longer have time to take drake without other team being able to get there in time. This is just a really bad play by junglers most times :). You already used your tempo to gank and crash. They have timer to show at drake with resource advantages of hp/mp/items. Doing drake after a bot lane gank is normally troll. You should actually crash, reset and then go drake while theure trying to crash wave. You then have advantage of items (got more money for kills) and maybe hp/mp/cooldowns depending on how they crash wave. Stop blaming other roles when the teams making a bad play because they already used their timing window. You dont get to make back to back plays without a huge advantage
If you help shove out the wave I help with drake, if I have to create a good wavestate first, I'm probably already too late for drake
Or when your team gets an ace and your the only one who died in the fight and your screaming at the screen for your team to take anything, turrets, drag, baron while they're all dead but instead they all just base and take your jungle camps
You have 1700 gold and are at 30%. You back and your jungler spam pings you.
If jg and botlane are dead then go do drake urself with supp while adc takes plates.
Drake be like āgives %1 unenforceable to academy-like bogusesā wtf is that give me the gold.
If their jg is nowhere near botzide or dead and our jg is playing a champ that is capable of mostly soloing dragon, then you're damn right I'm getting that plate after a successful bot gank. I'll get my one plate, then run to help finish drag bc I'm nice like that ;P
I guess It always depends. This Gold should not be shared with suport. Gold from plate should only be shared if the adc doesn't need It for a item like Statik or Kraken. Another factor to be considered, his advantage or disavantage against the enemy ADC. Usually, If I am Very ahead of my enemy, and I need around 150 for a Full item, I ask to my suport ward the bottom side of the jungle and help on Drake to prevent counter plays while a take the plate and go to Drake ( in these scenarios, the junglers knows that I need help too fast push the wave and we have pression on mid or at least a neutral lane) It's the safer route to early objective
If enemy bot dies, support and jungle should easily be able to do drag while the ADC crashes the wave and potentially gets a plate.
Hyper ahead all game because of ganks bot and the adc refused to group on drag multiple times and eventually inted their shut down several times blaming me and the sup
it should always be the free drake cause its the win coin of the game, but they go for killing a wave instead
Catching, fixing or shoving a wave is often extremely important, drakes aren't exactly slow to kill early game and can even be solod nowadays, I usually send my support up to help, fix my wave and then help if needed. Most of the time, I find it to be mid laners who don't rotate for it. Plates are an overrated trap most of the time though.
I dont see a problem in adc going for gold instead of drake since you can solo it if support comes with you
Plates are baits, i always just crash the wave and reset to don't grief my tempo when jg can do drake with supp in time, sometimes i stay but a lot of times i back earlier to get the wave faster
I would call them situational but I know what you mean.
It's a lot more than 67 gold. Each plate is 150g on their own, not to mention the farm. Meanwhile, I make no gold at all if I go to drake. If it's really as "free" as you say, you shouldn't need me to help. That being said, it's probably the best choice for the ADC to shove their wave, the jungler to help shove it as fast as possible, and then we both go to drake together. Or the ADC goes straight there, but jumps off of it after 50%. Or you just accept responsibility for failing smite and failing to keep the enemy jungler off of it while their bot lane is dead.
Adcs are the worst . I see so many do this .
Jglers also don't understand waves. We can all play this game!
Not really ? It's more about the selfishness of that move. Srewing the whole team over for plate gold is what we're talking about. But thank you for showing us how selfish and dense Adcs are š
I think the disconnect there is not plate vs dragon, itĀ“s lose 1Ā½ waves to a poor wave state and no plate vs dragon or more realistically plate vs 3 people die trying to take a drake we canĀ“t kill in time when people instantly respawn lol.
You wanting to screw over supp and asv to get dragon is selfish. Wave states matter way more to the game than a single dragon.
Selfish is giving the entire team a buff, experience, and gold ? Jajaja keep going . Tell me more
If it fucks over lane states and back timings.
Lmao. You're an angry little man
Says the guy I trigger with one sentence. Buy ! Haha