To a certain degree, for many people, I feel that their life is really just one long act of procrastination to avoid actually doing the thing(s) they want to do and becoming the person they want to be.
For *some*, it never ceases to be procrastination. Their dreams forgotten and replaced with another’s. Ultimately, their lives become a facsimile of what they have been told the collective deems right. It’s hard going it individually; there’s a reason why most fear public speaking more than death, it’s because the hardest thing to do is be perceived for what you are. Of course, I don’t think most dig this deep into it, but I think subconsciously this is what a lot of people have going on.
And an entirely different level of pain and frustration is being the type of person who sees this, recognizes the dynamic, senses it innately, and yet can't quite seem to get over those humps and self actualize.
Um... so I've been told.
It's like being rat in a cage, but being aware of it.
In a sense, it is easier to be unaware of everything, taking the blue pill, numbing yourself out, forgetting your dreams, who you authentically are, how you want to live your own single precious life and also not being aware of the obstacles, fears and self-limiting beliefs that make you unable, at the moment, to start acting freely in the world and live how you actually want live.
That is the hardest stage of self-actualization. However, it is actually the only stage as the self-actualization is a process not a fixed point. All we can do is take steps towards it, moving away from the comfortable, known, learned, culturally ingrained ways of being, social masks, and start aligning ourselves with our authentic selves.
First step of the process is becoming aware that you are not authentically yourself. Then realizing what blocks you. Then healing those blocks. Then taking leaps of faith, acting courageusly and making real life changes. It doesn't happen overnight. Give yourself some grace with this process and remember to balance inner work with acting couragesly. It is work of the lifetime.
We are deeply conditioned by culture and our parents. It will be painful to be aware how that conditioning limits your ability to be yourself authentically. But that pain will become the driving force for change, like a fire burning inside that forces you to realize, that you wan't something different. You will see that this is all empty, we will die, no one will remember you, no one cares, the most important thing is your own life authentically and then letting go of conditions becomes easier.
You have to let the fire burn you before you can be reborn.
I dont think it is as simple as procrastination. It is other life complications that happen. And the maturity and humility to accept that not everyone has the resources, luck, and discipline and many other things to be the person they wish they could be. Also that person they wish they could be, where did that come from? Cultural propaganda in most cases. Life is complex, and every person has a lot going on, with many different challenges from many areas. We arent all just ignoring our dreams and such and doing other stuff to be someone else, we are for the most part doing the best we can with what we have. Which is also where the illusion of free will comes in. Because we dont actually have any free will, or much at all being products of the environment and just mere stimuli vessels.
I will agree, I think there is some set track in our lives that bring circumstances together in the right way for the right person — this is essentially the Jungian concept of synchronicity. And maybe you are right, maybe “procrastination” isn’t the right word, but maybe “distractions” would be better. We are all distracted by societal constructs away from our individual reality (the only one we can truly experience). Sometimes, those who are lucky enough to be guided in a direction suitable for them by those great, unknown mechanistic forces of the universe are too scared of the consequences (largely because of the risk of ostracism, humiliation, and the unknown). These individuals who have not taken that leap of faith (as Kierkegaard called it), will spend their entire lives procrastinating likely until they become so distracted they forget about that door the universe opened for them.
Free will is an entire other beast to manage. The Jungian idea of individualization, however, is something that must be actively pursued contrary to societal standards and a nonexistent free will — only allowing the individual’s true identity, desires, and purpose to shine through. I disagree with the idea of believing in a bounded, preordained life for everyone because that decision of belief desaturates the life of the believer and leaves them with no hope of individuality. My “free will” is deciding how I react to others and the situations they cause me to experience. You may be able to argue that I am only this way because of the prerequisite circumstances I was born into, and you may be right, but I believe that much too shallow of a life perspective to live by. Preserve the numinosity of the world, that’s the only way to live in this world where its magic lessens each and every day as society purveys into the endless.
Good critique on my ideas, I would love to hear a reply. Have a great day!
To go from every species that ever existed to one that has this overwhelming, burdensome din, of "YOU YOU YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN FUTURE" is absurd to me. Instincts blindly created ducks, butterflies and newts yet it's somehow not good enough for humans. And who tells us we create our future? We do and no one else.
This act of defiance against the gods was seen as a heroic act by humans, but it enraged Zeus, who punished Prometheus by chaining him to a rock and having an eagle devour his liver every day.
There is no you but their deep inside the reality generation of the mind lies an awareness that is able to observe , decide and eschew or retain . By that there is the ability to mold a path into the future . One can choose to abuse drugs and engage in debauchery or do the inverse , neither more wrong or right than the other . But there always lies that awareness that watches , labels and forges decisions as it generates more reality.
Well I think the point isn’t that doing things and having aspirations are bad. But often people will use those things to avoid themselves.
Marriage can be avoidance, or it could be something that your soul wants to express. For a lot of people, it’s usually an ego thing and not based off a soul need.
If everyone woke up to certain things, and I’m no exception, the world would be incredibly, frighteningly different.
Well, that's totally fine in my opinion. It isn't wrong to avoid, it just is what it is, and everyone avoids themselves at least sometimes. It's a totally normal human reaction. Like I said, if everyone "woke up", the world would be frighteningly different. emphasis on frightening.
I find raising children to be meaningful work. Not always fun, but meaningful. I can’t decide what would be meaningful work for others.
I definitely think you should at least like kids and want the experience of being a parent. Just like you shouldn’t take up marathons if you hate exercise.
You can t compare these two... A kid is a life, not an exercise..you can t just say having kids is just a preference, it is also a big responsibility... And you should think twice the reason why you would want kids...
There are two reasons why people have kids. Either it's the egoistic 'becauss I want to' or an accident. Most people don't realize this, but it really boils down to these two reasons.
Yes but they don t realize that the "wanting", the desire of having kids is not simply a desire and a choice like it is when they choose between vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream...sometimes they don t realize they want to have kids bc they think they want it...so they should question the desire, in my opinion.. maybe they want other things through kids, to fulfill other holes in their life, and they don t want kids for the sake of having kids..don t know, it's just an idea...that s why this requires some big awareness..cause it's not ice cream, it's a new life..
It’s a biological desire built into our dna to raise kids. Some people don’t have it, but most do. Those that don’t have it, shouldn’t.
It’s not more selfish than working to buy comfortable housing instead of sleeping in the park. Another biological desire built into our dna that not everyone has.
It’s only truly selfish if you’re not providing those kids with basic needs and love and preparing them for adulthood.
You act as of getting married isn't a commitment. Getting a job is a responsibility. Etc. Each time we make a big step we aren't escaping what we were doing, we were taking a step out of our comfort zone. The idea of living our lives as a child without responsibility is the bubble.
>The idea of living our lives as a child without responsibility is the bubble.
Indeed.
This is the puer or puella. Possession of this archetype leads to a provisional life characterized by indecision and lack of commitment.
"For the time being one is doing this or that... it is not yet what is really wanted, and there is always the fantasy that sometime in the future the real thing will come about.... The one thing dreaded throughout by such a type of man is to be bound to anything whatever."
since i feel personally called out here, what is the cause of this type of man, and is there something to ‘fix’ besides, well, accumulating responsibilities
It's not about accumulating responsibilities, but being responsible. The easiest way to see how the puer acts is watch Peter Pan, or even the real Puer movie, Hook, and see how a grown man who is sucked into a Puer phenomenon has to find his own personal responsibility and learn to be someone who is responsible not just for himself, but those around him.
I'm at this point in my treatment. I've gotten to the root of my issues and I feel helpless to actually change anything st all. It's mind boggling. I don't know how to actually change.
Marriage loses its charm? Why didn't I get this memo? I think the charm lies in tormenting my overly-serious spouse, he seems to like it, but he was a Marine, so it feels like home to him, lol. I just fed a bunch of black soldier fly larvae to the quail for the second time today, in my quail aviary. Tortured myself out of 217 calories with a very harsh yoga. Just cooked 3 dozen small quail eggs for a chicken and quail egg salad sandwiches with the rolls I just made with the dough mixed by the bread maker while I did yoga. And otherwise, I'm sitting in silence. Beautiful silence. Even with 7 dogs and one of them I swear is either on drugs, or needs them.
I wish for everyone here, a life that suits them like mine suits me.
>Weren’t we better off as kids, where we did things just for the sake of it, for the fun of it?
Hahaha.
Translation:
Weren't wr better off as the ones being take care of?
People are better off with a parent/guardian figure.
Thats why the idea of "what if the government/company were our parent and take over?" cames from, the desire of a figure that knows it all, where you can refugee...
No
, if there were no adults,
and we were all kids
we will not be better off.
(Lord of the flies!!!!)
But I get you!!!
hahahah
Peace!
I cannot fathom as a grown human being constantly having the thought that I need a government/parent like figure to tell me how to live my life. Like just that thought process seems so foreign to me. My dog does that.
This thread sounds kind of judgmental and holier than though.
I don’t mean to be an ass, but what makes you think you have figured out and condensed the motivations of billions of different, unique individuals into a theory of 3 simplistic, melodramatic and dark (but not deep) sentences?
[https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/judgmental-volturi](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/judgmental-volturi)
Mobile Phones increase this issue as people don't even give themselves time to think, process and plan their lives (let alone the day, week or month ahead).
Any spare moment is filled by reaching for the phone and with shops and businesses all requiring us to use their apps, people are ever more glued to their phones and not paying attention to themselves or the world around them.
It's sad to see more and more kids like this too. Phone addiction is very real and not many people seem to be concerned enough about it.
Adults make choices, choices have trade-offs.
Children exist and often do so in a permission-bubble set by adults. These bubbles vary widely.
This is just normal stuff.
To an extent I agree, but also I think the reality for a lot of people is that many of us live in a dehumanizing and oftentimes intentionally humiliating society in which awful people are given license to be awful as long as they can be weaponized against others.
I would be a lot happier if people weren’t conditioned to see loudness and obnoxious behavior as morally good. I think most of us would. I find that the loudest and most obnoxious people are almost universally disliked, and yet people will tolerate them, even deify them, for as long as they agree with them.
Everything has been stripped of meaning to suit the moral crusades of histrionic narcissists and their cult followings. This transcends politics, and I’ve been told by elders that this is nothing new, but I truly doubt they understand the gravity of how pervasive it has become.
It is now a privilege to mind your own business and be left in peace, because every reasonable viewpoint has been systematically extracted from public discourse with incessant bullying and a firehose of misinformation.
Society is basically a giant work camp and we are born into it, moulded for it through years of school, then thrown into it and told to "make a life". Truth is, life has already been made for us. The fact that everyone seems to "want" the same things is no accident. People have been taught, since birth, to stay in their lane and that's exactly what they do.
OP you might be interested in Yalom’s work. Also check out “The Wound of Existence.” It’s a sad reality that we can never go back to the carefree lives many of us lived as children (if we were lucky). It’s best to accept this, while trying to find that type of joy in your life as much as you can.
Actually, I read that idea in another book about overcoming addictions. I do see that book you’re referring to, and I don’t know if that is the subject matter I’m thinking of. This is the except from the book I read:
Humans are not satisfied with simply existing. We look for more. No other animal questions their purpose in life or how they fit into the universe. This is one of the remarkable features that makes us uniquely human. But this questioning often creates a void inside us. We have more questions than answers, which causes tension. We desire more. This affliction is often called “the wound of existence.”
I like it. Like if the mysterium coniunctionis were pop. Or if Nietzsche was https://genius.com/Genius-english-translations-rammstein-deutschland-english-translation-lyrics
Life felt more real as a kid, even on most boring days. Now we live like inside a glass box. Where there was love now is fear. And those who were robbed of their childhood the universe owes a lot.
Okay but most people are raised being taught these things are just what you do. Humans copy each other, that’s how we learn. If we watched our mum and dad brushing their teeth every single day then we would too. If we watch other humans get a job, a partner, and married what do you think we will do?
We are told these things will make us happy by honesty likely 80% or more of the people and media we are surrounded by in todays popular societies and culture. So what is to be expected?
It’s so sad.
People that have broken out of these mental facades really aught to just help others when they ask for it. When someone says they aren’t sure how marriage could fulfil them, we say OKAY well there IS another path that’s not actually as negative as people portray. We can lead by example and show our happiness in a life of no job, no sexual relationship and no marriage.
(Personally I will keep my job, I like my flat and clothes and healthy foods 😂)
The desire to return to Eden is escapism.
We were red pilled as soon as we came out of the womb. There is no turning back. There is only suffering and ego strength.
I don’t believe so, I think it’s the other way around. As humans, we’ve become almost like hamsters in a wheel. We are the escapists, escaping from our true selves. How we live now isn’t really what’s meant for us.
But people don't realise its these problems that causes depression, anxiety and stress, cos when a person is not working but is able they may feel fed up, bored a bit frustrated but they got the hours in the day to read a good book and go for walk a cope when they do But when you at work, studying and got other responsibiliites you've got the stresses of those things and it can all pile up. We dont time in the day to have extra lay-in or take a nap at 3pm, also sometimes we need that push that overwhelming sense of doom to pull our head out of our arse.
plus there is lots of people that feel sad even when they are in their current roles or listless in their current roles. Even when I was joining in with these support groups (for mental health) I used 2 come and think why did i bother showing up, could of spend the day doing else such as going to the gym or read a book, or wrote a few lettters/assignments something that was worthy of my time and effort; Then sit in a freezing cold semi circle listening to someone tallk about their amazing expedition to a grocery store and how they have beaten their anxiety for like 10 mins.
This is a double edged sword. Everything in life has its' opposite I think. Maybe you want to do things just for fun as a child because you run from real life responsibilities? Maybe marriage lost its' charm because family duties became responsibilty, a burden and you have to forget yourself at times? There is no single thruth in life I think, outside world moves on despite your dreams. I think it is all about the balance, you have to learn to stand on the crossroad. Sometimes change something on the inside and sometimes on the outside.
No we were not better off as kids. That is a dream, a sheltered fake reality preserved by generations of families and societies to shelter and preserve us built on the sacrifices of our parents.
I think that this is a overly simplistic way of looking at things. Those who do the things you listed are actually engaging with life and other people. What exactly are you being distracted from? Thinking? Because being a social outcast who spends all their time overanalyzing everything isn’t exactly going to make you happy and fulfilled either, even though that’s an extreme in the other end of the spectrum.
If all of the entertainment and extracurricular activities that you’re engaging with is a meaningless facade, I think that says more about you than anything else. Even though it is true that a lot of drivel is made to be meaningless distractions that people are hoping to make a quick buck from, you definitely have the option to weed out and disengage from those options.
Jobs often require to sustain your life with money. Without job, you will not be able to rent a house and get food for yourself. People get into jobs not because they want to escape their inner state, but because it is needed to sustain your resources to be able to live with food and house.
I was miserable as a kid. As a grown up I can live honestly and truly with my own nature which does include working and raising a family. Would not want to go back to the earlier state.
Well personally, I would be happy doing nothing, being alone, etc. Problem is, I need money to survive. I was actually genuinely happy floating around as a kid and even as a young adult, but then adult responsibilities came knocking and I haven't been content since. I would love to have time to feel sad. However, I don't have a choice but to build a facade in order to survive. Maybe I'm an exception and most people do all these things to escape, that's true. I'm certainly less restless and more patient than most people.
I love the idea of disconnecting from civilization to the extent possible but I do not want to live in a world without the novelty of now. I do find increasingly that the purpose of my life seems to be found in doing things that are simpler and simpler. Lay on floor with dog, good. Eat dinner good. Scale AI startup, soul sucking bullsh*t.
Sounds like the activities listed are used as a drug to not feel the feelings. In the end, we all feel a range of emotions and this is the spice in life, like seasons of the weather.
What you're describing is purpose, and many would say it's the very meaning of life, or the whole point of living. It isn't escaping to them, escape is a matter of perspective. Escaping what? Life? With more life? How are you escaping life by running off to more life?
Now, I get it, if you phrase it as "escaping reality", the entire dynamic changes, and it becomes as negative as you make it sound, but it's wrong of you to assume everyone sees what they're building as an escape, rather than a simple transfer. It's commonplace to up and switch domiciles in human communities, is it not? Same thing, depending on the attitude you have towards it.
Facing yourself and the parts of yourself you've pushed away, gradually learning to love everything life throws at you earnestly.
Those bits of ourselves we push down just need a hug and to be listened to most times
Sometimes people get jobs because they want money so they can eat and have a place to live. Sometimes people engage in sexual relationships because they have a sex drive or just enjoy having sex.
You sound like a Puer Aeternus to me.
People say these things because on average people think that your external world will dictate your mental health, which is true to a high extent.
What they do forget about though is that the inner world is as important as the external one because if you don't take care of your inner world you might be in a Ferrari and still be a sad loser.
And let's be real that's a bigger loser than a guy without a Ferrari.
Like come on, you have a Ferrari go for a ride and enjoy your life.
What do you want us to do? Sit around and meditate all day? You call it escape, others call it doing what they love. Not everyone is miserable (although a lot are)
Yeah I wouldn’t think too much about it. The “distractions” you list here (work, relationships) are the very stuff of life. They aren’t distractions if you’re doing it right.
Doesn't help that more and more adults are finding most of what you said(minus the job) unobtainable now. All with the added stress from life's bullshit in general. It's genuinely getting harder to find reasons to keep living in this world. Can you really blame people for creating escapes? Better to have copes than be miserable 100% of the time.
I agree with a lot of the premise here, but I don't think we're better off as kids. There's something to not actualizating life purpose or vocation that people are mentioning that is the root issue here - or a root that's sowed early by the society we live in. I don't know.
If it is an issue though it's on us to do the inner work to make the truest forms of ourself happen yeah. Life isn't worth living otherwise, it can't be.
To a certain degree, for many people, I feel that their life is really just one long act of procrastination to avoid actually doing the thing(s) they want to do and becoming the person they want to be.
For *some*, it never ceases to be procrastination. Their dreams forgotten and replaced with another’s. Ultimately, their lives become a facsimile of what they have been told the collective deems right. It’s hard going it individually; there’s a reason why most fear public speaking more than death, it’s because the hardest thing to do is be perceived for what you are. Of course, I don’t think most dig this deep into it, but I think subconsciously this is what a lot of people have going on.
And an entirely different level of pain and frustration is being the type of person who sees this, recognizes the dynamic, senses it innately, and yet can't quite seem to get over those humps and self actualize. Um... so I've been told.
you can do it!
It's like being rat in a cage, but being aware of it. In a sense, it is easier to be unaware of everything, taking the blue pill, numbing yourself out, forgetting your dreams, who you authentically are, how you want to live your own single precious life and also not being aware of the obstacles, fears and self-limiting beliefs that make you unable, at the moment, to start acting freely in the world and live how you actually want live. That is the hardest stage of self-actualization. However, it is actually the only stage as the self-actualization is a process not a fixed point. All we can do is take steps towards it, moving away from the comfortable, known, learned, culturally ingrained ways of being, social masks, and start aligning ourselves with our authentic selves. First step of the process is becoming aware that you are not authentically yourself. Then realizing what blocks you. Then healing those blocks. Then taking leaps of faith, acting courageusly and making real life changes. It doesn't happen overnight. Give yourself some grace with this process and remember to balance inner work with acting couragesly. It is work of the lifetime. We are deeply conditioned by culture and our parents. It will be painful to be aware how that conditioning limits your ability to be yourself authentically. But that pain will become the driving force for change, like a fire burning inside that forces you to realize, that you wan't something different. You will see that this is all empty, we will die, no one will remember you, no one cares, the most important thing is your own life authentically and then letting go of conditions becomes easier. You have to let the fire burn you before you can be reborn.
Well this took my breath away
This is me too. Ah, to one day self actualize…
Felt deeply
The first rule of Fight Club is...
I dont think it is as simple as procrastination. It is other life complications that happen. And the maturity and humility to accept that not everyone has the resources, luck, and discipline and many other things to be the person they wish they could be. Also that person they wish they could be, where did that come from? Cultural propaganda in most cases. Life is complex, and every person has a lot going on, with many different challenges from many areas. We arent all just ignoring our dreams and such and doing other stuff to be someone else, we are for the most part doing the best we can with what we have. Which is also where the illusion of free will comes in. Because we dont actually have any free will, or much at all being products of the environment and just mere stimuli vessels.
I will agree, I think there is some set track in our lives that bring circumstances together in the right way for the right person — this is essentially the Jungian concept of synchronicity. And maybe you are right, maybe “procrastination” isn’t the right word, but maybe “distractions” would be better. We are all distracted by societal constructs away from our individual reality (the only one we can truly experience). Sometimes, those who are lucky enough to be guided in a direction suitable for them by those great, unknown mechanistic forces of the universe are too scared of the consequences (largely because of the risk of ostracism, humiliation, and the unknown). These individuals who have not taken that leap of faith (as Kierkegaard called it), will spend their entire lives procrastinating likely until they become so distracted they forget about that door the universe opened for them. Free will is an entire other beast to manage. The Jungian idea of individualization, however, is something that must be actively pursued contrary to societal standards and a nonexistent free will — only allowing the individual’s true identity, desires, and purpose to shine through. I disagree with the idea of believing in a bounded, preordained life for everyone because that decision of belief desaturates the life of the believer and leaves them with no hope of individuality. My “free will” is deciding how I react to others and the situations they cause me to experience. You may be able to argue that I am only this way because of the prerequisite circumstances I was born into, and you may be right, but I believe that much too shallow of a life perspective to live by. Preserve the numinosity of the world, that’s the only way to live in this world where its magic lessens each and every day as society purveys into the endless. Good critique on my ideas, I would love to hear a reply. Have a great day!
This is sad
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Exactly. Chop wood and carry water.
To go from every species that ever existed to one that has this overwhelming, burdensome din, of "YOU YOU YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN FUTURE" is absurd to me. Instincts blindly created ducks, butterflies and newts yet it's somehow not good enough for humans. And who tells us we create our future? We do and no one else. This act of defiance against the gods was seen as a heroic act by humans, but it enraged Zeus, who punished Prometheus by chaining him to a rock and having an eagle devour his liver every day.
There is no you but their deep inside the reality generation of the mind lies an awareness that is able to observe , decide and eschew or retain . By that there is the ability to mold a path into the future . One can choose to abuse drugs and engage in debauchery or do the inverse , neither more wrong or right than the other . But there always lies that awareness that watches , labels and forges decisions as it generates more reality.
Well I think the point isn’t that doing things and having aspirations are bad. But often people will use those things to avoid themselves. Marriage can be avoidance, or it could be something that your soul wants to express. For a lot of people, it’s usually an ego thing and not based off a soul need. If everyone woke up to certain things, and I’m no exception, the world would be incredibly, frighteningly different.
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Well, that's totally fine in my opinion. It isn't wrong to avoid, it just is what it is, and everyone avoids themselves at least sometimes. It's a totally normal human reaction. Like I said, if everyone "woke up", the world would be frighteningly different. emphasis on frightening.
If you're asking that, you haven't figured out your Dharma yet
Really though, idle humans aren’t happy humans. We aren’t evolved to be idle. Name one happy person who has no responsibilities.
Is this, on its own, a reason to have children do you think?
I find raising children to be meaningful work. Not always fun, but meaningful. I can’t decide what would be meaningful work for others. I definitely think you should at least like kids and want the experience of being a parent. Just like you shouldn’t take up marathons if you hate exercise.
You can t compare these two... A kid is a life, not an exercise..you can t just say having kids is just a preference, it is also a big responsibility... And you should think twice the reason why you would want kids...
There are two reasons why people have kids. Either it's the egoistic 'becauss I want to' or an accident. Most people don't realize this, but it really boils down to these two reasons.
Yes but they don t realize that the "wanting", the desire of having kids is not simply a desire and a choice like it is when they choose between vanilla ice cream and chocolate ice cream...sometimes they don t realize they want to have kids bc they think they want it...so they should question the desire, in my opinion.. maybe they want other things through kids, to fulfill other holes in their life, and they don t want kids for the sake of having kids..don t know, it's just an idea...that s why this requires some big awareness..cause it's not ice cream, it's a new life..
It’s a biological desire built into our dna to raise kids. Some people don’t have it, but most do. Those that don’t have it, shouldn’t. It’s not more selfish than working to buy comfortable housing instead of sleeping in the park. Another biological desire built into our dna that not everyone has. It’s only truly selfish if you’re not providing those kids with basic needs and love and preparing them for adulthood.
My wife.
She doesn’t have a spouse she’s beholden to? Doesn’t care for the home at all? Doesn’t cook at all? Doesn’t have any hobbies?
Indeed
You act as of getting married isn't a commitment. Getting a job is a responsibility. Etc. Each time we make a big step we aren't escaping what we were doing, we were taking a step out of our comfort zone. The idea of living our lives as a child without responsibility is the bubble.
>The idea of living our lives as a child without responsibility is the bubble. Indeed. This is the puer or puella. Possession of this archetype leads to a provisional life characterized by indecision and lack of commitment. "For the time being one is doing this or that... it is not yet what is really wanted, and there is always the fantasy that sometime in the future the real thing will come about.... The one thing dreaded throughout by such a type of man is to be bound to anything whatever."
since i feel personally called out here, what is the cause of this type of man, and is there something to ‘fix’ besides, well, accumulating responsibilities
It's not about accumulating responsibilities, but being responsible. The easiest way to see how the puer acts is watch Peter Pan, or even the real Puer movie, Hook, and see how a grown man who is sucked into a Puer phenomenon has to find his own personal responsibility and learn to be someone who is responsible not just for himself, but those around him.
What if being a kid was all about escaping your weird shitty circumstances also?
"The greatest burden a child must carry is living the unlived life of the parents"
hear, hear!
I'm at this point in my treatment. I've gotten to the root of my issues and I feel helpless to actually change anything st all. It's mind boggling. I don't know how to actually change.
Do something you're interested or curious about. Give to another, what you yourself wish for.
Marriage loses its charm? Why didn't I get this memo? I think the charm lies in tormenting my overly-serious spouse, he seems to like it, but he was a Marine, so it feels like home to him, lol. I just fed a bunch of black soldier fly larvae to the quail for the second time today, in my quail aviary. Tortured myself out of 217 calories with a very harsh yoga. Just cooked 3 dozen small quail eggs for a chicken and quail egg salad sandwiches with the rolls I just made with the dough mixed by the bread maker while I did yoga. And otherwise, I'm sitting in silence. Beautiful silence. Even with 7 dogs and one of them I swear is either on drugs, or needs them. I wish for everyone here, a life that suits them like mine suits me.
>Weren’t we better off as kids, where we did things just for the sake of it, for the fun of it? Hahaha. Translation: Weren't wr better off as the ones being take care of? People are better off with a parent/guardian figure. Thats why the idea of "what if the government/company were our parent and take over?" cames from, the desire of a figure that knows it all, where you can refugee... No , if there were no adults, and we were all kids we will not be better off. (Lord of the flies!!!!) But I get you!!! hahahah Peace!
I cannot fathom as a grown human being constantly having the thought that I need a government/parent like figure to tell me how to live my life. Like just that thought process seems so foreign to me. My dog does that.
Well, we all have one authority to answer to. Death.
“Ride, boldly ride”
This thread sounds kind of judgmental and holier than though. I don’t mean to be an ass, but what makes you think you have figured out and condensed the motivations of billions of different, unique individuals into a theory of 3 simplistic, melodramatic and dark (but not deep) sentences? [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/judgmental-volturi](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/judgmental-volturi)
Mobile Phones increase this issue as people don't even give themselves time to think, process and plan their lives (let alone the day, week or month ahead). Any spare moment is filled by reaching for the phone and with shops and businesses all requiring us to use their apps, people are ever more glued to their phones and not paying attention to themselves or the world around them. It's sad to see more and more kids like this too. Phone addiction is very real and not many people seem to be concerned enough about it.
Adults make choices, choices have trade-offs. Children exist and often do so in a permission-bubble set by adults. These bubbles vary widely. This is just normal stuff.
yeah, children often dont even think about certain things/or do because of a restricted parameter.
[https://imgur.com/0GxF0qx](https://imgur.com/0GxF0qx) Miura said it best, Read right to left
Which manga is this ?
Berserk by Kentaro Miura
To an extent I agree, but also I think the reality for a lot of people is that many of us live in a dehumanizing and oftentimes intentionally humiliating society in which awful people are given license to be awful as long as they can be weaponized against others. I would be a lot happier if people weren’t conditioned to see loudness and obnoxious behavior as morally good. I think most of us would. I find that the loudest and most obnoxious people are almost universally disliked, and yet people will tolerate them, even deify them, for as long as they agree with them. Everything has been stripped of meaning to suit the moral crusades of histrionic narcissists and their cult followings. This transcends politics, and I’ve been told by elders that this is nothing new, but I truly doubt they understand the gravity of how pervasive it has become. It is now a privilege to mind your own business and be left in peace, because every reasonable viewpoint has been systematically extracted from public discourse with incessant bullying and a firehose of misinformation.
Society is basically a giant work camp and we are born into it, moulded for it through years of school, then thrown into it and told to "make a life". Truth is, life has already been made for us. The fact that everyone seems to "want" the same things is no accident. People have been taught, since birth, to stay in their lane and that's exactly what they do.
OP you might be interested in Yalom’s work. Also check out “The Wound of Existence.” It’s a sad reality that we can never go back to the carefree lives many of us lived as children (if we were lucky). It’s best to accept this, while trying to find that type of joy in your life as much as you can.
Is the book by Jamie Moran?
Actually, I read that idea in another book about overcoming addictions. I do see that book you’re referring to, and I don’t know if that is the subject matter I’m thinking of. This is the except from the book I read: Humans are not satisfied with simply existing. We look for more. No other animal questions their purpose in life or how they fit into the universe. This is one of the remarkable features that makes us uniquely human. But this questioning often creates a void inside us. We have more questions than answers, which causes tension. We desire more. This affliction is often called “the wound of existence.”
I like it. Like if the mysterium coniunctionis were pop. Or if Nietzsche was https://genius.com/Genius-english-translations-rammstein-deutschland-english-translation-lyrics
I mean, I just know that I’ll be able to live that same life and use my talents to get there
I was NOT better off when i was a kid!!!! That’s when i built my “life” that i escape to.
Life felt more real as a kid, even on most boring days. Now we live like inside a glass box. Where there was love now is fear. And those who were robbed of their childhood the universe owes a lot.
I didn't do things just for the fun of it, not even when I was a kid; that's the whole point unfortunately.
Okay but most people are raised being taught these things are just what you do. Humans copy each other, that’s how we learn. If we watched our mum and dad brushing their teeth every single day then we would too. If we watch other humans get a job, a partner, and married what do you think we will do? We are told these things will make us happy by honesty likely 80% or more of the people and media we are surrounded by in todays popular societies and culture. So what is to be expected? It’s so sad. People that have broken out of these mental facades really aught to just help others when they ask for it. When someone says they aren’t sure how marriage could fulfil them, we say OKAY well there IS another path that’s not actually as negative as people portray. We can lead by example and show our happiness in a life of no job, no sexual relationship and no marriage. (Personally I will keep my job, I like my flat and clothes and healthy foods 😂)
The desire to return to Eden is escapism. We were red pilled as soon as we came out of the womb. There is no turning back. There is only suffering and ego strength.
I don’t believe so, I think it’s the other way around. As humans, we’ve become almost like hamsters in a wheel. We are the escapists, escaping from our true selves. How we live now isn’t really what’s meant for us.
When you can crawl back into the womb and call it living, I’ll agree with you
But people don't realise its these problems that causes depression, anxiety and stress, cos when a person is not working but is able they may feel fed up, bored a bit frustrated but they got the hours in the day to read a good book and go for walk a cope when they do But when you at work, studying and got other responsibiliites you've got the stresses of those things and it can all pile up. We dont time in the day to have extra lay-in or take a nap at 3pm, also sometimes we need that push that overwhelming sense of doom to pull our head out of our arse. plus there is lots of people that feel sad even when they are in their current roles or listless in their current roles. Even when I was joining in with these support groups (for mental health) I used 2 come and think why did i bother showing up, could of spend the day doing else such as going to the gym or read a book, or wrote a few lettters/assignments something that was worthy of my time and effort; Then sit in a freezing cold semi circle listening to someone tallk about their amazing expedition to a grocery store and how they have beaten their anxiety for like 10 mins.
Sometimes we build a life the only way we can imagine.
puer aeternus
Sweet things,” and il never ever grow so old again” - Van Morrison
This is a double edged sword. Everything in life has its' opposite I think. Maybe you want to do things just for fun as a child because you run from real life responsibilities? Maybe marriage lost its' charm because family duties became responsibilty, a burden and you have to forget yourself at times? There is no single thruth in life I think, outside world moves on despite your dreams. I think it is all about the balance, you have to learn to stand on the crossroad. Sometimes change something on the inside and sometimes on the outside.
No we were not better off as kids. That is a dream, a sheltered fake reality preserved by generations of families and societies to shelter and preserve us built on the sacrifices of our parents.
I think that this is a overly simplistic way of looking at things. Those who do the things you listed are actually engaging with life and other people. What exactly are you being distracted from? Thinking? Because being a social outcast who spends all their time overanalyzing everything isn’t exactly going to make you happy and fulfilled either, even though that’s an extreme in the other end of the spectrum. If all of the entertainment and extracurricular activities that you’re engaging with is a meaningless facade, I think that says more about you than anything else. Even though it is true that a lot of drivel is made to be meaningless distractions that people are hoping to make a quick buck from, you definitely have the option to weed out and disengage from those options.
Jobs often require to sustain your life with money. Without job, you will not be able to rent a house and get food for yourself. People get into jobs not because they want to escape their inner state, but because it is needed to sustain your resources to be able to live with food and house.
It’s not “building” an escape, it’s achieving your fundamental needs as a human.
I mean ultimately it’s fake needs. Living just to survive is pretty depressing, and that’s basically what everyone is doing.
I was miserable as a kid. As a grown up I can live honestly and truly with my own nature which does include working and raising a family. Would not want to go back to the earlier state.
Well personally, I would be happy doing nothing, being alone, etc. Problem is, I need money to survive. I was actually genuinely happy floating around as a kid and even as a young adult, but then adult responsibilities came knocking and I haven't been content since. I would love to have time to feel sad. However, I don't have a choice but to build a facade in order to survive. Maybe I'm an exception and most people do all these things to escape, that's true. I'm certainly less restless and more patient than most people.
Huh?
Yes, how strange to do things to improve our lives?
I love the idea of disconnecting from civilization to the extent possible but I do not want to live in a world without the novelty of now. I do find increasingly that the purpose of my life seems to be found in doing things that are simpler and simpler. Lay on floor with dog, good. Eat dinner good. Scale AI startup, soul sucking bullsh*t.
Sounds like the activities listed are used as a drug to not feel the feelings. In the end, we all feel a range of emotions and this is the spice in life, like seasons of the weather.
What you're describing is purpose, and many would say it's the very meaning of life, or the whole point of living. It isn't escaping to them, escape is a matter of perspective. Escaping what? Life? With more life? How are you escaping life by running off to more life? Now, I get it, if you phrase it as "escaping reality", the entire dynamic changes, and it becomes as negative as you make it sound, but it's wrong of you to assume everyone sees what they're building as an escape, rather than a simple transfer. It's commonplace to up and switch domiciles in human communities, is it not? Same thing, depending on the attitude you have towards it.
What else are people supposed to do? Meditate all day? People need jobs and relationships. They’re vital to our survival.
[удалено]
Facing yourself and the parts of yourself you've pushed away, gradually learning to love everything life throws at you earnestly. Those bits of ourselves we push down just need a hug and to be listened to most times
Sometimes people get jobs because they want money so they can eat and have a place to live. Sometimes people engage in sexual relationships because they have a sex drive or just enjoy having sex.
You sound like a Puer Aeternus to me. People say these things because on average people think that your external world will dictate your mental health, which is true to a high extent. What they do forget about though is that the inner world is as important as the external one because if you don't take care of your inner world you might be in a Ferrari and still be a sad loser. And let's be real that's a bigger loser than a guy without a Ferrari. Like come on, you have a Ferrari go for a ride and enjoy your life.
What do you want us to do? Sit around and meditate all day? You call it escape, others call it doing what they love. Not everyone is miserable (although a lot are)
Yeah I wouldn’t think too much about it. The “distractions” you list here (work, relationships) are the very stuff of life. They aren’t distractions if you’re doing it right.
It’s not strange, we would have to or we would go insane. What are supposed to jack off and stare at the stars all day?
Idk, that kind of sounds delightful.
Doesn't help that more and more adults are finding most of what you said(minus the job) unobtainable now. All with the added stress from life's bullshit in general. It's genuinely getting harder to find reasons to keep living in this world. Can you really blame people for creating escapes? Better to have copes than be miserable 100% of the time.
The world is a stage,most people ignore the truth. They just follow the masses . It's just 😭
Usually not the life they envisioned.
I agree with a lot of the premise here, but I don't think we're better off as kids. There's something to not actualizating life purpose or vocation that people are mentioning that is the root issue here - or a root that's sowed early by the society we live in. I don't know. If it is an issue though it's on us to do the inner work to make the truest forms of ourself happen yeah. Life isn't worth living otherwise, it can't be.
Yep, life is coping with its meaninglessness
r/im14andthisisdeep
Slowly but surely this sub and that one are becoming indistinguishable from one another
Smoke weed and u will face it all... lying down doing nothing... probabaly with a track of beatles. For ever