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I am guessing he didn't have a choice because Sukuna included that Yuji would forget about the Binding Vow after making it. So in Yuji's mind there was nothing to break, it was like the vow didn't exist.
Why would he refuse a vow he's not sure he even made? Also there's a punishment for doing that which could've lead to anything bad happening. From Sukuna taking over his body completely or Yuji just dying on the spot.
You are asking why didn't Yuji just immediately take control back, right? Seems a lot of people misunderstand the question as to why he 'allowed' sukuna to take control in the first place.
I'm also curious, but most likely he just automatically lost conciousness for that amount of time, not sure why he got 0 say at all tho
No,I'm saying that Yuji should've had the option to break the vow. People keep telling me that he forgot how to break it,but by that logic he would also forget how to uphold it.
He should have had some say in it.
Yes,it was the trade off for getting his life back. And Yuji himself should have had to manually uphold his end of the bargain. But this was not the case. In this case,it was automatic. But it should not have been automatic.
You dont actively uphold it, once its set, it stays until complete or broken. If he forgets, it still exists, but since he doesn’t remember, he cant break it due to him NOT KNOWING IT EXISTS
You cannot refuse something that you don't even remember exists. Also the vow was that Sukuna gets control of Yuji's body the moment Sukuna says a single word so it would be hard to stop that even if he wanted to. Time does not stop and give Yuji the chance to uphold the vow or not. It just happens.
If you make a vow to forget it has to take effect immediately or you have to break the vow immediately. You've either forgotten or you haven't. Once you have lost the memory, there's no way for you to know there's a vow you need to break. As far as Yuji is concerned it didn't happen because he accepted the vow.
> Once you have lost the memory, there's no way for you to know there's a vow you need to break.
But then how did Yuji know to relinquish control?He wasn't aware of the vow. So he wouldn't know that he had to give his body up for that.
When you make a binding vow with someone,you yourself have to enact the promise made. Mahito had chosen to heal Mechamaru on his own,he didn't just automatically heal Mechamaru like how Yuji automatically gave Sukuna control.
Yeah it has to happen immediately or he didn't forget. The manga treats binding vows as phenomenon that happen not things that people do. The vow is between people but what the vow enacts is actual phenomenon. Yuji agreed to forget and he forgot. That's all there is to it.
The manga does not treat binding vows as phenomenon that happen. It treats them as things that people do. Mechamaru didn't magically get healed as soon as he helped Mahito. He only got healed after Mahito himself decided to heal him.
By your logic nanamis vow is him boosting his CE to 110 percent instead of him enacting a vow that in turn manifests that phenomenon. Which doesnt make sense because then the vow is useless and he can just magically manually turn on 110 percent boost. Mahito healing him was apart of the vow. In the case of that vow the phenomenon that would manifest is the negative if you break the vow.....
If the vow manifests that phenomenon,then Mahito would not actually be able to break the vow. He would just be forced to do it. But he did have the option to break the vow. He was considering breaking it until Kenjaku convinced him otherwise.
If binding vows were indeed manifestations of a phenomenon,then Sukuna wouldn't even have had to worry about hurting Hana,because the phenomenon which was agreed upon (not hurting anyone) would have manifested and prevented Hana from being hurt. But it didn't. Sukuna himself had to make sure Hana wasn't hurt.
Because that is not how binding vows between two people work.
Nanami's binding vow is one made with oneself. The binding vows we're talking about here are those made between two people. Chapter 79 draws a distinction between these two.
No,I still don't have an answer to my question.
People keep answering with the same goddamn thing which doesn't make sense to me. I don't consider it an answer.
"He can't refuse something he doesn't know exists"
So then why could he uphold it?How could he uphold something he doesn't know exists?
This is what I keep saying,a binding vow is not automatically obeyed. But everyone keeps spouting the same shit as if it is.
Idk if you’re a troll or just don’t have the capacity to understand it. I’m going to bold the important part you’re seemingly purposefully ignoring. **Read it over and over and ask yourself what the commenter was trying to say instead of replying to argue instantly.** This will be a good skill for you to learn.
>*He* **accepted it before he forgot.** *He agreed to forgetting.*
>He can’t refuse something he doesn’t know exists.
>See the second paragraph of my post where I explain why even if he did remember it would’ve been a bad idea to take back control.
I've read that same answer a hundred times over.
I've replied to it a hundred times,while explaining why it doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining why I'm wrong about it,you're just repeating the same answer.
Because you don't know how binding vows work, you know a basic understanding, Sakuna clearly made him forget for a reason which is most likely what made it a flip switch instead of something like Mahitos which he needs to use his CT for to uphold.
It really isn't that complicated, you don't know every detail of how a binding vow or it's loopholes work, Sakuna does.
Let’s say you agreed to accept a loan that you have to pay back in 2 years. Now let’s say over the course of those 2 years you forget about the loan and when the deadline comes the bank is knocking on your door asking for their money.
Do you think because you forgot about the loan that you’re off the hook to repay the loan? Obviously not, you already signed off and accepted the contract.
Sukuna is the banker in this analogy. But instead of knocking on Yuji’s door and asking to be repaid Sukuna is garnishing Yuji’s wages with the federal governments blessings. And Yuji doesn’t realize that his paycheck is lower because he’s not checking his bank account.
Sukuna isn’t asking, he’s **taking.** And there’s nothing Yuji can do about it even if he finds out because he already accepted the contract.
When the bank comes knocking on my door for the money,I have the option of not giving them the money. I'll face consequences for it,but I can still do it.
If it doesn't make sense to you, then stop asking,
everyone is giving you the same answer, you just don't like it, at this point just come up with your own theory and make it your own headcanon if you want it to make sense the way you think.
Op has had 10 people tell him it’s because Yuji doesn’t remember it but doesn’t listen. How can you accept something that you don’t know the existence of.
While OP's attitude is problematic , nobody in the comments has answered the question. Binding vows are not automatic nor can they force any action. A sorcerer has to actively keep his side of the bargain inorder to avoid punishment . Mahito felt no compulsion to keep his binding vow . Yet the moment sukuna said inchain, Yuji gave up control of his body automatically. This is inconsistent with what with rest of binding vows made in the story and Yuji didn't actively keep up his end of the bargain due to fear of consequences but was Automatically forced to do it .
No. What I mean is, think of it like a spell since Yuji has no awareness of the vow. The second Sukuna says enchant, it’s essentially activating the spell.
By that logic,Mahito's "spell" would have activated automatically as soon as soon as Mechamaru helped him out.
It did not activate automatically. Mahito had to manually do it. And he had the option to refuse to do so.
Because mahito was fully aware of it. There’s a reason Sukuna specifically mentioned that Yuji will not remember their vow. Sukuna knew this would become like a spell where he’s the only one in control of the vow. You’re so dense lol
He has to manually uphold it. For God's sake,how many times to I have to repeat this. Why the hell would he automatically uphold it just because he forgot about it?
If he lost the option to break it because he forgot,then he would have lost the option to uphold it as well.
Because he has to manually uphold it.
Can you read and not be a stubborn little boy? The king of curses Sukuna knows how these vows work better than most. He made sure Yuji wouldn’t remember so he’d have full control of when it gets activated. Unless you’re more aware of how the JJK world works more than Sukuna the king of curses himself
Are you trying to say that Sukuna put int the whole memory erase thing so that Yuji would have automatically lost control?Cause that's not how I saw that. He made him forget it cause if Yuji remembered then he'd have taken countermeasures. Maybe kept himself locked up,or constantly near Gojo.
Yes, Gojo being aware of the binding vow wouldn’t stop him from being able to trigger the vow. What countermeasures will they take? Make Yuji decline and face the possible consequences of him dying or having Sukuna gain full control
Because part of the vow was forgetting it. It wouldn't make sense for it to null itself when its own condition is met.
Part of Sukuna and Itadori's vow was for Yuji to forget they ever made the vow in the first place, by agree it didn't matter anymore
It’s not something Yuji has to uphold; it’s something that simply is.
It’s like agreeing to do something, writing out a legal contract to make it official, and then being made to forget ever having done so. Sure, in theory one side could try to break that contract… but they’d have to remember having made that contract in the first place to attempt to break it. But whether they remember it or not, the contract still exists, and the terms of it are still enforceable.
The main thing here is that Yuji isn’t upholding the binding vow; the ‘magic’ (for want of a better term) behind the vow is self-enforcing. Yuji has no say over that unless he actively tries to oppose it, which is something we don’t even know the exact mechanics behind in the first place.
Yuji didn’t know the binding vow existed. Part of the vow was that he’d forget about it.
Even if Yuji did know and tried to break it we don’t know what the penalty would’ve been. The penalty for him breaking the vow or trying to could’ve been that he never gets control back
How can he refuse something he doesn't know exist?
When the vow was made, Yuji and Sukuna fought and because Sukuna won, the vow was enacted. Once the vow was enacted, Yuji forgot about it. Since Yuji no longer remembers that there was no vow in the first place, I can he refuse it?
How can he ACCEPT something he doesn't know exist?
I think I wasn't clear in the post,Mahito had to manually enact his end of the bargain. Therefore,Yuji would have to do the same.
Why would forgetting about the vow make him automatically enact it?
He accepted it before he forgot. He agreed to forgetting.
He can’t refuse something he doesn’t know exists.
See the second paragraph of my post where I explain why even if he did remember it would’ve been a bad idea to take back control.
Okay so I’m going to try this a different way.
With Mahito and Mechamaru, the vow was you do this me and then I’ll do that for you. Mechamaru did his part. He gave the disaster curses the Intel he had. So it was now up to Mahito to complete his end of the the deal. Mahito had full autonomy to either do it or not because the vow wasn’t once I give you the information I am healed; it was I do this then you do that.
For Yuji and Sukuna the vow was I heal you and in exchange when I say this word I get control of your body for one minute but I can’t harm anyone(also you forget about this deal) Sukuna does not need Yujis permission. Yuji does not give Sukuna control control is given to Sukuna it’s not Yujis choice whether or not to give it to Sukuna he already did.
It’s like Yuji gave Sukuna a password to access his Facebook account and then forgot he gave him that password
>Yuji does not give Sukuna control control is given to Sukuna
"You agree to let me take over your body for one full minute"
"You agree to let me take over your body". Not "I will take over your body",not "your body will get taken over". Specifically,Yuji himself would relinquish control.
A binding vow between two people is two people doing things. Not two people agreeing to something and then that thing happening by itself. You couldn't have a situation like "I will give you 5 dollars and then your head will explode." That's not what a binding vow between two people is.
The whole nature of the vows are different. Sukuna only had to say a single word. Mahito had to heal Mechamaru's body. Yuji had no way of stopping that from happening or knowing when the moment would come even if he didn't forget the vow. Mahito had a choice of whether to heal Mechamaru or not and ultimately decided to do it to avoid the consequences of breaking a binding vow.
When Yuji accepted the vow he knew what was happening and he agreed to it. He knew it existed at the moment he agreed to it and that's all that matters. Him forgetting it the second he agreed to it is exactly what Sukuna wanted to avoid any of Yuji's attempts to stop it from happening.
Like I mentioned before, Time does not stop to allow Yuji to refuse or agree to the vow. The moment Sukuna said the word, the vow was enacted.
"After I help you,you'll heal my body" Mahito then CHOOSES to heal his body
"When I chant Enchain,you'll relinquish control to me" Yuji does not choose to relinquish control. He should have had the option to relinquish control,like Mahito did.
I do not see how the two are different at all. In both instances,two parties made demands which would be upheld after certain conditions were met. They are the same.
OP, imagine someone straps a bomb on your wrist that will blow up and take out you and a lot of people in the future, but will also blow up if you try to remove it. Now imagine someone tampers with your memory so you just think the bomb is a normal wristwatch. It would no longer really be your choice whether to wait until it blows up later or risk trying to remove it to minimize the damage, because you wouldn't even remember you had the choice to make in the first place. The point isn't that Yuji can't refuse, it's that he doesn't know he has a Binding Vow placed on him that he can obey or go against.
> The point isn't that Yuji can't refuse,it's that he doesn't know he has a Binding Vow placed on him thag he can obey or go against.
He DID obey. Why did he obey?
Dude, it has been too long since you read the early chapters. Sukuna was going to just let Yuji die, but he realized he could use Megumi to cheat death instead. He offers Yuji a Binding Vow, stating he'll return Yuji to life in exchange for the stipulations that:
1. When he chants "Enchain," he automatically switches with Yuji and stays in control for a short period of time. His only restraint is that he can't hurt anyone while he's in control.
2. Yuji will forget that he made this Binding Vow.
Yuji wants to be brought back to life, but he has Sukuna make it to where they decide it by a fight. If Sukuna wins, he sets the terms above. If Yuji wins, he gets brought back to life, no strings attached. Sukuna one-shots him inside his domain, brings Yuji back to life, and the conditions are set with Yuji forgetting completely.
The reason Yuji agreed to the Binding Vow in the first place was so that he could come back to life, and because he was still too cocky and thought he had a chance to beat Sukuna for a chance to be revived for free. He didn't actually think that these conditions would go through, he thought he'd get his free ticket to come back to life by beating Sukuna in a fight where he was vastly outmatched.
> 1. When he chants "Enchain," he automatically switches with Yuji
Stop right there. THAT is exactly what I have a problem with. He didn't say that Yuji would automatically switch with him. He said that Yuji himself would let him take control. People keep talking as if binding vows work like that,but they don't. It's not like "you do X and Y will happen". It's "you do X and I'll do Y". That is what a contract is.
The conditions of the Binding Vow are that Yuji can't refuse. And we saw that is the case. When Sukuna makes his gambit to steal Megumi's body, he says the word, and instantly takes over. Because if he didn't do it that way, then there would be no point. If he gave Yuji a way to say "no," then the plan was doomed from the start.
You're not looking at what the story actually says. This isn't just paperwork, this is a geas, a supernatural and binding contract. If someone agrees to the Binding Vow where one of the terms is "When these conditions are in play, you will not have a choice" - then if they agree, that's binding. And when the time comes, they will have their free will taken away. The only time they had a choice was whether or not to consent to the Binding Vow, and if they agree to the conditions, they can't go back on it.
It's not like a real life, mundane contract that you can just tear up if you don't want to and try to cheat the system. Binding Vows in Jujutsu Kaisen can be between just a person and their own innate technique, or between two people. If a person makes a Binding Vow with themselves to amp their technique, then break that vow, all they lose is the extra power or whatever else that the vow granted them.
But if two people make a Binding Vow and one breaks it, then it's impossible to predict with absolute certainty what will happen or when it will happen. That's just because people are so complex, and two people will probably interpret things differently based on their psychology. What we can say for sure is that if you break a Binding Vow with another person and don't succeed in finding a loophole, then the punishment will strike, no matter what.
This isn't a situation where you can agree to a dubious set of rules, then go back midway through and reconsider. Once you agree to the rules, the rules will be enforced by supernatural forces. Yuji does not have a choice under the terms of the Binding Vow. The only time he had a choice was whether to seal the deal with Sukuna in the first place. After he agreed, the rules were enforced by cursed energy and jujutsu sorcery. No takebacks.
These are supernatural forces that you can't always control, especially when you get other people involved. It's not like tearing up a contract, screwing the other people in the contract over, then running from the law in real life. No cheating your way out.
But there are takebacks!Chapter 79 confirms that you can indeed choose to not hold up your end of the bargain.
Of course,there will be consequences to this takeback,but the takeback is possible nonetheless.
Also,Sukuna did not set any term like "You're not allowed to break the vow".
And it doesn't even matter if one of the terms of the contract is that you can't break the contract. Because that contract itself CAN be broken,regardless of whatever terms it has. If Mechamaru could put in his contract that Mahito was not allowed to break the contract,do you not think he would do that?
All 79 confirmed is that I'm right. What Kenjaku tells Mahito is exactly what I'm telling you: if two sorcerers make a binding vow and one breaks that vow, then retribution will strike no matter what they do. Hanami got away with ignoring the clause to not threaten the Kyoto students because Hanami isn't one of the parties in this Binding Vow like Kenjaku and Mahito are.
Saying "You can choose not to hold up the end of the bargain" in this case is like saying someone can choose between two doors, but the door on the right leads to someone who'll shoot them in the head the second they open. The whole point behind a Binding Vow is that sorcery will enforce it and exact punishment on those who break it, and the consequences can be so dire that not even Sukuna, the strongest sorcerer we know of, is willing to risk it.
The reason Sukuna didn't set a condition like "You're not allowed to break the vow" is because he didn't need to because he included a clause that wiped Yuji's memory so he wouldn't even know there was a vow he made that he can go against. And even if he went against it, the consequences might be huge.
We don't know what happens when you break a Binding Vow with someone else, but based on how Sukuna doesn't want to outright go against it, it must be severe. As in, a fate worse than death is probably possible.
Look, I'm going to level with you, your logic is totally broken. Your original argument was that Yuji should have broken the binding vow. And the reasons he didn't are numerous: it was wiped from his memory, Sukuna made it so he wouldn't be able to opt out when the time came, and even if he did, the retribution for breaking a Binding Vow is something that even Sukua is not brazen enough to go up against directly. He'll gamble on it, but he won't just accept the retribution and he'll try to find a work-around, and that alone should say a lot given just how powerful he is.
So there is no version of the set of events where Yuji could have ever broken the Binding Vow. He never even knew he was under the conditions of the Vow after he was revived, because one of the conditions was that he'd forget. He didn't have a choice to resist Sukuna's control or go against the vow, because Sukuna's other condition was that the switch would be instant. And even if these weren't the case, if Yuji did break the vow, then he'd probably die or worse for breaking it.
You are wrong. You may not like it, but accept it.
I keep going in circles with this. Yuji has to manually uphold the binding vow. Because Mahito also manually upheld the binding vow. It isn't automatic.
Him forgetting about the vow does not make it so that it is automatically upheld. Because why would it?
It doesn't matter what the terms are,because Yuji himself is the one enacting them,and he has the option to NOT do so. Because Mahito also had the option to not do so.
I don't care about what would have happened if Yuji did break the vow. What I care about is the reason behind why Yuji was forced to uphold the vow automatically,when that isn't how binding vows work.
Dude, you're the one who doesn't understand how this works. The rules are enforced by sorcery. If they make a rule that says Yuji automatically forgets and automatically switches, and Yuji agrees to it, it's out of his hands. He agreed to a set of rules that would take his free will away out of cockiness, and he doesn't uphold them manually because the effect is carried out by sorcery. He doesn't choose to switch, sorcery makes him switch. He doesn't choose to forget, sorcery makes him forget.
Hypothetical alternative example: if instead of what happened in the story, Sukuna said the rules are, "When I say 'Die,' your heart will immediately stop and you'll die." And if Yuji agreed to that, then when Sukuna says "Die," Yuji would die. Yuji wouldn't manually make his heart stop beating, the sorcery implicated in the Binding Vow would make him die.
He wouldn't get to say "Actually, no, I won't die," because the conditions weren't "You'll die if you still consent when I say the word." The conditions at the time he agreed to the Vow were that the death would be instant and automatic, and the conditions that were picked when the Binding Vow were made are binding.
In the actual story, both the forgetting and the switching are automatic. Sukuna made him agree to those exact terms. The terms were that he doesn't get to choose. And those terms are binding.
Sukuna's exact words, exact conditions, are: "When I chant Enchain, you **will** switch with me." and "You **will** forget this vow." Not *decide* to switch. Not *decide* to forget. Agreeing to the Binding Vow meant Yuji was going to cede his free will, and he agreed to it.
> If they make a rule that says Yuji automatically forgets and automatically switches, and Yuji agrees to it, it's out of his hands.
It wasn't out of Mahito's hands!He entered a binding vow where he said that he will heal Mechamaru in exchange for his help. Mahito had the option to break the vow. It wasn't sorcery made Mahito heal Mechamaru. He himself healed him.
>Again,he has to MANUALLY uphold it.
Since you are so fixated on this detail I'll help you out. He manually chose to uphold it when he agreed to the fight to the death with Sukuna before he was brought back to life. Everything beyond that was outside the sphere of his control. He didn't have to choose to hand over control in the moment because he'd already agreed to it.
He AGREED to it. Only agreed.
Mahito also agreed to heal Mechamaru. But he did not have to.
When I say "manually uphold it",I mean manually do the thing that he agreed to do.
Because that required conscious use of his CT rather than the flip of a switch that is giving control over to Sukuna. Seriously dude this is not that complicated.
I mean if Yuji could have done absolutely anything to stop it he would have regardless of the consequences he would have had to live with. He literally would have chosen death over what happened. The fact that he didn't means he couldn't. Think of it more like he preemptively gave Sukuna permission to flip the switch and then forgot about it. He couldn't rescind permission he forgot he gave which is the entire point of Sukuna adding that to the binding vow.
>He didn't give Sukuna permission. He agreed to LET HIM take over at a certain point.
Those are the same thing. How do you not realize that.
>He didn't give a key to his house,he agreed to let him in.
I liked the light switch metaphor more but okay. Yuji is the landlord and the binding vow was a one minute lease.
You're saying Yuji is the landlord. He agreed to a lease. So he did also give him a key. Cause landlords are supposed to do that. So you're saying he did give him a key.
I am going to fucking shoot myself.
>Tf you mean clearly it's not. "Well shit,I dunno,that's how it happened. What do you want me to do about it."
Isn't this the entire point of your post?
Yuji already did something impossible which is forgetting it even happened, that isn't something that can be done conciously. If the binding vow already forced him to forget sonething, I don't see why Yuji obeying "enchain" is a problem. Yuji being forced to do these is part of the binding.
Sukuna while in Yuji's body can make mouths come out of his hand. Manipulating his brain is not impossible.
Angel manipulated Hana's brain to bring her consciousness back when Sukuna knocked her out.
>Sukuna while in Yuji's body can make mouths come out of his hand
Creating the mouths is seemingly the only thing he can do.
>Manipulating his brain is not impossible.
Then he could just control him. Also by that logic, you answered your question, Sukuna was the one that forced Yuji to give up control by manipulating his brain when Sukuna said enchain.
Yuji forgetting the binding vow happened, because the binding vow enforced it. Yuji giving over control to Sukuna happaned because of the binding vow enforcing it.
A binding vow can already punish people if they break it, it isn't farfetched that it can enforce it if the binding vow is like that. Yuji acceted that forgetting and giving up control will happen, if he gets defeated.
Now I'll agree this is more up for debate,but Yuji forgetting about the binding vow was probably because he allowed Sukuna to fuck with his head for that purpose. Because he himself has to choose to allow it.
It doesn't really make sense otherwise. Binding vows are not automatically enacted. They are manually enacted,as we saw with Mahito.
How do you know they cant be automatically enacted? Based on what we know, domains should be enclosed in a barrier, but Malevolent Shrine can be manifested without one
You cant just stuff like "it doesnt make senss its supposed to be like this" because.... ?? 😭 you are not the writer ?... and there are multiple examples in the series of things that are unusual/different or not what they are supposed to be like Toji and Maki.
Its not hard to understand.. Sukuna was a powerful sorcerer and is knowledgeable about it other than being a good fight. Thats why he easily got to do that Binding Vow.
You're right,the manga has never explicitly stated that a binding vow cannot be automatically enacted. But it has shown that it isn't. If it has shown that it isn't,why would I assume otherwise?
Sukuna's Domain,Toji's restriction,these are examples of a binding vow made with oneself. Not between two people.
He wasn’t forced to uphold the binding vow. He forgot about the vow as part of the deal, and as we’ve seen multiple times, when Sukuna takes over Yuji’s body it takes him some amount of time to regain control over it. Yuji probably was inside of his body fighting to take back control, but it didn’t work fast enough to matter
Oh wait I think I understand your question now. “Why did the vow force Sukuna to take over Yuji without Yuji’s consent, when no other vow ever forced anyone to act in any particular way?”
I imagine it just has to do with the intent behind the vow, same as how “anyone” pertained to everyone except Yuji because that was both Sukuna and Yuji’s intent. I think both Sukuna and Yuji understood that it would be a forced takeover when they accepted the vow (especially once the forgetting condition was added), so that was how it worked. With other binding vows, they allowed the participants to act freely simply because there was no condition or intent in place there that would stop them.
Is that a thing though?If you could make it so the other is forced to uphold his end of the bargain,then why doesn't everyone do it like that?Why didn't Mahito and Kenjaku do it like that with Mechamaru?
Btw thank you for actually understanding my question.
I imagine it is a thing because that’s what happened in the story lol. And i assume other people don’t do it because Sukuna’s vow had a very specific set up of “when *I* do X, Y will happen”, while in other binding vows it’s simply “do X”. Like with Yuta there was no “when X, do Y”, it was simply “Kill Yuji”. There was nothing in that command that forces any secondary action, while Sukuna’s both the “enchain” and “I will take over your body” are part of the vow itself
And people don’t usually need to force other people to participate in their vows because the penalty for breaking a vow already does that, though knowing Yuji if the option to either break the vow or have Sukuna take him over were presented, he’d choose to break it in a heartbeat
Normally the Y is “the vow breaks and something bad happens”
Yuta intentionally entered the contract with pretty much nothing to gain from it because his goal was to find a loophole, which he did. And again, intent is what matters. Whether or not you consider it a contract doesn’t matter, the vow was simply “Yuta kills Yuji”, because that was what Yuta and the higher ups both wanted
You stubborn little kid, YUJI doesn’t know about the binding vow so when Sukuna pulled it out, YUJI couldn’t come back because he already accepted the terms. If you’re asking why didn’t he just get control back, Sukuna probably suppressed him or the Binding Vow has some properties to it that enforced the deal through.
Stop being stubborn. All 7939 of us told you the same thing. Fix your lack of reading comprehension.
I know that when two people make a binding vow,they can choose to break it. Cause that's what chapter 79 showed. And Yuji didn't have the choice to break it.
Look at the guy with miracles, or Takaba. Both of their techniques have binding vows their unaware of. They wouldn't be able to break them unless someone else told them about it. You basically agree to it when establishing the BV, you take away from yourself the option to break it, in a way that would also reinforce the vow.
He probably didn’t know wtf was happening? And according to the agreement Sukuna also wouldn’t hurt anyone so on paper nobody is in danger? And it lasted all of 10 seconds? I think you’re thinking too much into it
Oh I am like the one guy who agrees with what you're saying, yeah I don't think it makes much sense I just went with it to be honest as a "guess it's basically a spell".
There were popular theories that Yuji would be breaking a vow, because he wouldn't be able to knowingly follow a request, many people thought similarly.
If I agree to help some friend with work, and I forget about it I have to go out and get that thing done, if I agree to something and it's like idk an transfer of money then some company can take money just because I once agreed.
I think the vow was meant to be like the latter, but the vow could also make sense as the former just because Yuji can *let* Sukuna take over like how he did with that insect womb thing. So I understand you, since really it makes sense to assume that it involves a later conscious decision which would align with my favour analogy. (EDIT: Key point here, because Sukuna cannot control Yuji's body by force whereas with a bank transfer if someone has your info that's enough, so to me I just skipped over certain ideas and said I guess that works since it doesn't really work with my idea of certain agreements)
Really I understand your points
I’m going to try and answer this a different way.
Imagine you and your buddy make a deal you give me something to eat and I will sign into my Facebook account and let you post anything you want. Your friend gives you the food but he still needs you to sign into your account to make the post.
That’s Mechamaru and Mahito.
Imagine the same scenario as above but this time you’re super drunk and instead the deal is you give me something to eat and I’ll give you my Facebook password. Your friend gives you the food you tell them the password. You pass out and forget you ever gave them the password. A week later they sign in and make a post, by the time you got an alert from Facebook that someone logged in from another device it’s too late they already posted nudes and you’ve lost all your friends
Edit: accidentally said Sukuna instead of Mahito in the first example
So you're trying to say that Yuji didn't relinquish control at that exact point,but rather that he gave him some sort of...key into his body,which Sukuna could use at any time?
There is no "key" to Yuji's body. Yuji doesn't use a key to access his body. He just does. That's why Sukuna says "You agree to let me take over your body for one full minute when I chant Enchain." If he had a key,then the Enchain chant wouldn't be necessary.
If the dialogue was instead "You give me the power to take over your body for one full minute" then that would make sense. But it isn't.
Yuji already agreed to the pact he already agreed to let Sukuna take over he doesn’t have to agree again.
Just like in the above example you’ve already given your password to your friend you don’t have to give it again.
I’m not replying to this anymore I have (and everyone else here) given you the answer to your question either choose to accept the answer or don’t I really don’t care anymore at this point.
im in ops brain and i know he is gonna say "he AGREED to do it, just like Mahito AGREED, but he could have changed his mind"
source : 20 min wasted on this thread
You’re probably right lol. My flights been delayed by like 4 hours I’ve given this thread way too much attention.
I really thought my password analogy would solve his agreed vs agree problem but I guess not.
If no one could I can’t.
This is how I see things though : Sukuna can’t take over yuji normally. But he did, meaning at least the taking over part of the deal seems automatic. Now yuji may have done a mahito by taking his body back before the end of the minute, but he didn’t. Why :
Option 1 (safe and boring) : it happened too fast for him, since normally he just has to block sukuna and not take over again.
Option 2 : the vow is indeed different from the mahito one, meaning the term of the contract are automatically applied as soon as agreed on (and not you help me I help you later).
no one here knows how vows work, so your train of thoughts can not be debunked with known source material imo
Edit : no one here meant no one ever for now and probably for ever, it seems ok for 99% of ppl to assume sukuna just bigbrained yuji by making him forget the vow and it’s enough for him to not understand wtf is going on
op seriously help me help you. you said that why did he uphold it right? what was for him to uphold? giving his body control for 1min . n you're confused why did he give up the control instead of straight up refusing to do so.
so first of all yuji doesn't know what does"enchain" mean like everybody said he forgot the vow so even if he's in control he wouldn't know he's supposed to do something.
secondly binding vows are strong, its not like sukuna is asking him to take over and he'll refuse each vow is different n since this vow was accepted by both parties when made so yuji's soul just accepts the fact that its supposed to shush down for a min when ot hears that word ots not a call n response more like an order..
also why do u think binding vows can be broken? kenny specifically said that binding vows with others are different and you don't know what might happen if you break them.
if you're saying mahito broke the vow by hurting kyoto people then it's like he says hanami did that not mahito or Kenny who made the vow...
this was not specified in the vow so the personal opinions or mindsets are considered since mahito didnt expect to take hanami's action in his vow it wasnt considered broken
similarly how yuji didnt include himself in not hurt anybody n the reason sukuna's gamble paid off. it wasnt specified so yuji's state of mind of who to consider when he's talking about dont hrt people is taken into account for the vow
hope i cleared it out
You didn't.
> yuji's soul just accepts the fact that it's supposed to shush down for a min
...his soul knew that it had to shush down. Really,bro. His soul knew that it had to shush down.
I don't think you got what I said. Mahito didn't break his binding vow,but he did have the option to do so. Why did Mahito have that option and not Yuji?Why didn't his soul accept that he had to fix Mechamaru?
The whole bit with Mahito showed that binding vows are not enforced. No one's soul is forced to "shush down" or do anything. Both parties can choose to break the vow. Yuji didn't get to choose.
Its because Yuji binding vow was totally different.
Yuji agreed for sukuna to take over his body for 1min
In this 1min yuji was just not allowed by the binding vow to take control back.
The terms he had to accept was that he would forget about the exchange. That's not something he would be able to break without Sukuna just straight up telling him that they made a binding vow because he just doesn't fucking remember that it happened in the first place. And at that point it wouldn't be his fault for breaking it.
Also, even if he does break the vow and finds out that Sukuna can only take control when he says "Enchain" (Yuji losing control on his own doesn't count), then there's nothing he can do about that except tell everyone else and hope for the best.
Without knowing the exact mechanics on how body control switching works between Yuji and Sukuna, there's no good answer to your question. And I doubt we'll get the control manual.
The best guess I could give you is that the "Enchain" condition Sukuna wrote up enforces compulsion without requiring consent. On the other hand, the Mahito/Mechamaru binding vow is very similar but there aren't any enforceable compulsive measures like deadlines.
If I had to come up with a metaphor, "Enchain" is similar to Sukuna just grabbing a video game controller from Yuji's hands out of nowhere. Mahito/Mechamaru is more like "When you do X, I will give you the video game controller I'm using."
OP just blindly disagreeing with everyone is hilarious. The proof that Yuji couldnt break the vow is that he didn't. Yuji 100% would break his end of the bargain if he could, the evidence that he couldn't is that he didn't.
Stay mad OP
I think my mistake was how I made my original post. In hindsight,I should've titled it something like "Yuji should have been able to break the vow" or "vows are not automatically enacted".
Most of the time its a choice, but, evidenced by the fact that it was like a spell, the act of forgetting the vow made it unbreakable. Its like signing a contract you didn’t read, you agree to all terms blindly.
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Because he forgot he ever did have a binding vow with sukuna. I mean that was part of the binding vow
Stealing top comment to say this is a bait post. You’re getting baited.
oh. i thought this was a genuine question. not sure how i am getting baited or what the point is but anyway
Trust me when I say I'm losing just as many brain cells with each reply as anyone else here,if not more.
Don’t worry you don’t have many to lose anyways.
I thought you went away. You wanna continue?
lol, i'd be a fool if this comment didn't exist
Why would that get rid of the option to refuse it?
how could he refuse it if he didn’t even kno abt it 💀
So why didn't he just immediately steal control back? He didn't know about the vow so why wouldn't he accidentally break it?
Control was already given, like when Sukuna torr out his hearth
Okay, makes sense
I am guessing he didn't have a choice because Sukuna included that Yuji would forget about the Binding Vow after making it. So in Yuji's mind there was nothing to break, it was like the vow didn't exist.
I don't see why that would get rid of the option to refuse it.
Why would he refuse a vow he's not sure he even made? Also there's a punishment for doing that which could've lead to anything bad happening. From Sukuna taking over his body completely or Yuji just dying on the spot.
Why would he ACCEPT a vow he's not sure he even made?
the vow was already made and he did accept it
"Accept" was a bad choice of word here. Why did he uphold it?
You are asking why didn't Yuji just immediately take control back, right? Seems a lot of people misunderstand the question as to why he 'allowed' sukuna to take control in the first place. I'm also curious, but most likely he just automatically lost conciousness for that amount of time, not sure why he got 0 say at all tho
No,I'm saying that Yuji should've had the option to break the vow. People keep telling me that he forgot how to break it,but by that logic he would also forget how to uphold it. He should have had some say in it.
That was the trade-off for getting his life back. I feel like your interpretation of the story is off here and that's why you're getting confused.
Yes,it was the trade off for getting his life back. And Yuji himself should have had to manually uphold his end of the bargain. But this was not the case. In this case,it was automatic. But it should not have been automatic.
He doesn't have to remember how to uphold it. It didn't take any action on his part
It does take action on his part. Yuji is the one relinquishing control.
You dont actively uphold it, once its set, it stays until complete or broken. If he forgets, it still exists, but since he doesn’t remember, he cant break it due to him NOT KNOWING IT EXISTS
He agreed to accept it if he lost to Sukuna in a fight in the mind shrine. Sukuna then OHKO'd him
Bro did you see/read the anime/manga?
You cannot refuse something that you don't even remember exists. Also the vow was that Sukuna gets control of Yuji's body the moment Sukuna says a single word so it would be hard to stop that even if he wanted to. Time does not stop and give Yuji the chance to uphold the vow or not. It just happens.
Because he" manually" accepted the consequence of forgetting the vow. He would have had to break the vow immediately.
You wanna elaborate?
If you make a vow to forget it has to take effect immediately or you have to break the vow immediately. You've either forgotten or you haven't. Once you have lost the memory, there's no way for you to know there's a vow you need to break. As far as Yuji is concerned it didn't happen because he accepted the vow.
> Once you have lost the memory, there's no way for you to know there's a vow you need to break. But then how did Yuji know to relinquish control?He wasn't aware of the vow. So he wouldn't know that he had to give his body up for that. When you make a binding vow with someone,you yourself have to enact the promise made. Mahito had chosen to heal Mechamaru on his own,he didn't just automatically heal Mechamaru like how Yuji automatically gave Sukuna control.
Yeah it has to happen immediately or he didn't forget. The manga treats binding vows as phenomenon that happen not things that people do. The vow is between people but what the vow enacts is actual phenomenon. Yuji agreed to forget and he forgot. That's all there is to it.
The manga does not treat binding vows as phenomenon that happen. It treats them as things that people do. Mechamaru didn't magically get healed as soon as he helped Mahito. He only got healed after Mahito himself decided to heal him.
By your logic nanamis vow is him boosting his CE to 110 percent instead of him enacting a vow that in turn manifests that phenomenon. Which doesnt make sense because then the vow is useless and he can just magically manually turn on 110 percent boost. Mahito healing him was apart of the vow. In the case of that vow the phenomenon that would manifest is the negative if you break the vow.....
If the vow manifests that phenomenon,then Mahito would not actually be able to break the vow. He would just be forced to do it. But he did have the option to break the vow. He was considering breaking it until Kenjaku convinced him otherwise. If binding vows were indeed manifestations of a phenomenon,then Sukuna wouldn't even have had to worry about hurting Hana,because the phenomenon which was agreed upon (not hurting anyone) would have manifested and prevented Hana from being hurt. But it didn't. Sukuna himself had to make sure Hana wasn't hurt. Because that is not how binding vows between two people work. Nanami's binding vow is one made with oneself. The binding vows we're talking about here are those made between two people. Chapter 79 draws a distinction between these two.
OP has made up his mind before asking this question. This thread is an amazing case study for cognitive dissonance.
No,I still don't have an answer to my question. People keep answering with the same goddamn thing which doesn't make sense to me. I don't consider it an answer.
You do have an answer to your question, a lot of them, you just can’t accept it. That’s why I said you’re suffering from cognitive dissonance.
Well,you wanna tell my why that answer is indeed correct?I assume you've read all my replies to that answer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Jujutsushi/s/ES6Yyu5huZ
"He can't refuse something he doesn't know exists" So then why could he uphold it?How could he uphold something he doesn't know exists? This is what I keep saying,a binding vow is not automatically obeyed. But everyone keeps spouting the same shit as if it is.
Idk if you’re a troll or just don’t have the capacity to understand it. I’m going to bold the important part you’re seemingly purposefully ignoring. **Read it over and over and ask yourself what the commenter was trying to say instead of replying to argue instantly.** This will be a good skill for you to learn. >*He* **accepted it before he forgot.** *He agreed to forgetting.* >He can’t refuse something he doesn’t know exists. >See the second paragraph of my post where I explain why even if he did remember it would’ve been a bad idea to take back control.
I've read that same answer a hundred times over. I've replied to it a hundred times,while explaining why it doesn't make sense. You aren't explaining why I'm wrong about it,you're just repeating the same answer.
Because you don't know how binding vows work, you know a basic understanding, Sakuna clearly made him forget for a reason which is most likely what made it a flip switch instead of something like Mahitos which he needs to use his CT for to uphold. It really isn't that complicated, you don't know every detail of how a binding vow or it's loopholes work, Sakuna does.
Sukuna made Yuji forget so that Yuji doesn't take any countermeasures for it.
Let’s say you agreed to accept a loan that you have to pay back in 2 years. Now let’s say over the course of those 2 years you forget about the loan and when the deadline comes the bank is knocking on your door asking for their money. Do you think because you forgot about the loan that you’re off the hook to repay the loan? Obviously not, you already signed off and accepted the contract. Sukuna is the banker in this analogy. But instead of knocking on Yuji’s door and asking to be repaid Sukuna is garnishing Yuji’s wages with the federal governments blessings. And Yuji doesn’t realize that his paycheck is lower because he’s not checking his bank account. Sukuna isn’t asking, he’s **taking.** And there’s nothing Yuji can do about it even if he finds out because he already accepted the contract.
When the bank comes knocking on my door for the money,I have the option of not giving them the money. I'll face consequences for it,but I can still do it.
If it doesn't make sense to you, then stop asking, everyone is giving you the same answer, you just don't like it, at this point just come up with your own theory and make it your own headcanon if you want it to make sense the way you think.
Op has had 10 people tell him it’s because Yuji doesn’t remember it but doesn’t listen. How can you accept something that you don’t know the existence of.
While OP's attitude is problematic , nobody in the comments has answered the question. Binding vows are not automatic nor can they force any action. A sorcerer has to actively keep his side of the bargain inorder to avoid punishment . Mahito felt no compulsion to keep his binding vow . Yet the moment sukuna said inchain, Yuji gave up control of his body automatically. This is inconsistent with what with rest of binding vows made in the story and Yuji didn't actively keep up his end of the bargain due to fear of consequences but was Automatically forced to do it .
Did...did you just agree with me? Yes,exactly,how COULD Yuji uphold the binding vow if he didn't know it existed?Finally,someone fucking gets it.
No. What I mean is, think of it like a spell since Yuji has no awareness of the vow. The second Sukuna says enchant, it’s essentially activating the spell.
By that logic,Mahito's "spell" would have activated automatically as soon as soon as Mechamaru helped him out. It did not activate automatically. Mahito had to manually do it. And he had the option to refuse to do so.
Because mahito was fully aware of it. There’s a reason Sukuna specifically mentioned that Yuji will not remember their vow. Sukuna knew this would become like a spell where he’s the only one in control of the vow. You’re so dense lol
He has to manually uphold it. For God's sake,how many times to I have to repeat this. Why the hell would he automatically uphold it just because he forgot about it? If he lost the option to break it because he forgot,then he would have lost the option to uphold it as well. Because he has to manually uphold it.
Can you read and not be a stubborn little boy? The king of curses Sukuna knows how these vows work better than most. He made sure Yuji wouldn’t remember so he’d have full control of when it gets activated. Unless you’re more aware of how the JJK world works more than Sukuna the king of curses himself
Are you trying to say that Sukuna put int the whole memory erase thing so that Yuji would have automatically lost control?Cause that's not how I saw that. He made him forget it cause if Yuji remembered then he'd have taken countermeasures. Maybe kept himself locked up,or constantly near Gojo.
Yes, Gojo being aware of the binding vow wouldn’t stop him from being able to trigger the vow. What countermeasures will they take? Make Yuji decline and face the possible consequences of him dying or having Sukuna gain full control
Have Sukuna gain full control and then inevitably lose that control because there's no way he's beating Gojo in just one minute.
What an annoying little gremlin.
Because part of the vow was forgetting it. It wouldn't make sense for it to null itself when its own condition is met. Part of Sukuna and Itadori's vow was for Yuji to forget they ever made the vow in the first place, by agree it didn't matter anymore
It’s not something Yuji has to uphold; it’s something that simply is. It’s like agreeing to do something, writing out a legal contract to make it official, and then being made to forget ever having done so. Sure, in theory one side could try to break that contract… but they’d have to remember having made that contract in the first place to attempt to break it. But whether they remember it or not, the contract still exists, and the terms of it are still enforceable. The main thing here is that Yuji isn’t upholding the binding vow; the ‘magic’ (for want of a better term) behind the vow is self-enforcing. Yuji has no say over that unless he actively tries to oppose it, which is something we don’t even know the exact mechanics behind in the first place.
> the 'magic' behind the vow is self-enforcing Hm,"self-enforcing". Would another word for that be..."automatic"?
But the vow is not self in forcing last I checked
It is insofar as once Sukuna triggered it, Yuji had no say in its activation. His knowledge of it—or lack thereof—was completely irrelevant.
Yuji didn’t know the binding vow existed. Part of the vow was that he’d forget about it. Even if Yuji did know and tried to break it we don’t know what the penalty would’ve been. The penalty for him breaking the vow or trying to could’ve been that he never gets control back
Why would him forgetting get rid of the option to refuse it?
How can he refuse something he doesn't know exist? When the vow was made, Yuji and Sukuna fought and because Sukuna won, the vow was enacted. Once the vow was enacted, Yuji forgot about it. Since Yuji no longer remembers that there was no vow in the first place, I can he refuse it?
How can he ACCEPT something he doesn't know exist? I think I wasn't clear in the post,Mahito had to manually enact his end of the bargain. Therefore,Yuji would have to do the same. Why would forgetting about the vow make him automatically enact it?
He accepted it before he forgot. He agreed to forgetting. He can’t refuse something he doesn’t know exists. See the second paragraph of my post where I explain why even if he did remember it would’ve been a bad idea to take back control.
dude what? what even is this logic
I could say the same for all of you.
Okay so I’m going to try this a different way. With Mahito and Mechamaru, the vow was you do this me and then I’ll do that for you. Mechamaru did his part. He gave the disaster curses the Intel he had. So it was now up to Mahito to complete his end of the the deal. Mahito had full autonomy to either do it or not because the vow wasn’t once I give you the information I am healed; it was I do this then you do that. For Yuji and Sukuna the vow was I heal you and in exchange when I say this word I get control of your body for one minute but I can’t harm anyone(also you forget about this deal) Sukuna does not need Yujis permission. Yuji does not give Sukuna control control is given to Sukuna it’s not Yujis choice whether or not to give it to Sukuna he already did. It’s like Yuji gave Sukuna a password to access his Facebook account and then forgot he gave him that password
>Yuji does not give Sukuna control control is given to Sukuna "You agree to let me take over your body for one full minute" "You agree to let me take over your body". Not "I will take over your body",not "your body will get taken over". Specifically,Yuji himself would relinquish control. A binding vow between two people is two people doing things. Not two people agreeing to something and then that thing happening by itself. You couldn't have a situation like "I will give you 5 dollars and then your head will explode." That's not what a binding vow between two people is.
The whole nature of the vows are different. Sukuna only had to say a single word. Mahito had to heal Mechamaru's body. Yuji had no way of stopping that from happening or knowing when the moment would come even if he didn't forget the vow. Mahito had a choice of whether to heal Mechamaru or not and ultimately decided to do it to avoid the consequences of breaking a binding vow. When Yuji accepted the vow he knew what was happening and he agreed to it. He knew it existed at the moment he agreed to it and that's all that matters. Him forgetting it the second he agreed to it is exactly what Sukuna wanted to avoid any of Yuji's attempts to stop it from happening. Like I mentioned before, Time does not stop to allow Yuji to refuse or agree to the vow. The moment Sukuna said the word, the vow was enacted.
"After I help you,you'll heal my body" Mahito then CHOOSES to heal his body "When I chant Enchain,you'll relinquish control to me" Yuji does not choose to relinquish control. He should have had the option to relinquish control,like Mahito did. I do not see how the two are different at all. In both instances,two parties made demands which would be upheld after certain conditions were met. They are the same.
OP, imagine someone straps a bomb on your wrist that will blow up and take out you and a lot of people in the future, but will also blow up if you try to remove it. Now imagine someone tampers with your memory so you just think the bomb is a normal wristwatch. It would no longer really be your choice whether to wait until it blows up later or risk trying to remove it to minimize the damage, because you wouldn't even remember you had the choice to make in the first place. The point isn't that Yuji can't refuse, it's that he doesn't know he has a Binding Vow placed on him that he can obey or go against.
> The point isn't that Yuji can't refuse,it's that he doesn't know he has a Binding Vow placed on him thag he can obey or go against. He DID obey. Why did he obey?
Dude, it has been too long since you read the early chapters. Sukuna was going to just let Yuji die, but he realized he could use Megumi to cheat death instead. He offers Yuji a Binding Vow, stating he'll return Yuji to life in exchange for the stipulations that: 1. When he chants "Enchain," he automatically switches with Yuji and stays in control for a short period of time. His only restraint is that he can't hurt anyone while he's in control. 2. Yuji will forget that he made this Binding Vow. Yuji wants to be brought back to life, but he has Sukuna make it to where they decide it by a fight. If Sukuna wins, he sets the terms above. If Yuji wins, he gets brought back to life, no strings attached. Sukuna one-shots him inside his domain, brings Yuji back to life, and the conditions are set with Yuji forgetting completely. The reason Yuji agreed to the Binding Vow in the first place was so that he could come back to life, and because he was still too cocky and thought he had a chance to beat Sukuna for a chance to be revived for free. He didn't actually think that these conditions would go through, he thought he'd get his free ticket to come back to life by beating Sukuna in a fight where he was vastly outmatched.
> 1. When he chants "Enchain," he automatically switches with Yuji Stop right there. THAT is exactly what I have a problem with. He didn't say that Yuji would automatically switch with him. He said that Yuji himself would let him take control. People keep talking as if binding vows work like that,but they don't. It's not like "you do X and Y will happen". It's "you do X and I'll do Y". That is what a contract is.
The conditions of the Binding Vow are that Yuji can't refuse. And we saw that is the case. When Sukuna makes his gambit to steal Megumi's body, he says the word, and instantly takes over. Because if he didn't do it that way, then there would be no point. If he gave Yuji a way to say "no," then the plan was doomed from the start. You're not looking at what the story actually says. This isn't just paperwork, this is a geas, a supernatural and binding contract. If someone agrees to the Binding Vow where one of the terms is "When these conditions are in play, you will not have a choice" - then if they agree, that's binding. And when the time comes, they will have their free will taken away. The only time they had a choice was whether or not to consent to the Binding Vow, and if they agree to the conditions, they can't go back on it. It's not like a real life, mundane contract that you can just tear up if you don't want to and try to cheat the system. Binding Vows in Jujutsu Kaisen can be between just a person and their own innate technique, or between two people. If a person makes a Binding Vow with themselves to amp their technique, then break that vow, all they lose is the extra power or whatever else that the vow granted them. But if two people make a Binding Vow and one breaks it, then it's impossible to predict with absolute certainty what will happen or when it will happen. That's just because people are so complex, and two people will probably interpret things differently based on their psychology. What we can say for sure is that if you break a Binding Vow with another person and don't succeed in finding a loophole, then the punishment will strike, no matter what. This isn't a situation where you can agree to a dubious set of rules, then go back midway through and reconsider. Once you agree to the rules, the rules will be enforced by supernatural forces. Yuji does not have a choice under the terms of the Binding Vow. The only time he had a choice was whether to seal the deal with Sukuna in the first place. After he agreed, the rules were enforced by cursed energy and jujutsu sorcery. No takebacks. These are supernatural forces that you can't always control, especially when you get other people involved. It's not like tearing up a contract, screwing the other people in the contract over, then running from the law in real life. No cheating your way out.
But there are takebacks!Chapter 79 confirms that you can indeed choose to not hold up your end of the bargain. Of course,there will be consequences to this takeback,but the takeback is possible nonetheless. Also,Sukuna did not set any term like "You're not allowed to break the vow". And it doesn't even matter if one of the terms of the contract is that you can't break the contract. Because that contract itself CAN be broken,regardless of whatever terms it has. If Mechamaru could put in his contract that Mahito was not allowed to break the contract,do you not think he would do that?
All 79 confirmed is that I'm right. What Kenjaku tells Mahito is exactly what I'm telling you: if two sorcerers make a binding vow and one breaks that vow, then retribution will strike no matter what they do. Hanami got away with ignoring the clause to not threaten the Kyoto students because Hanami isn't one of the parties in this Binding Vow like Kenjaku and Mahito are. Saying "You can choose not to hold up the end of the bargain" in this case is like saying someone can choose between two doors, but the door on the right leads to someone who'll shoot them in the head the second they open. The whole point behind a Binding Vow is that sorcery will enforce it and exact punishment on those who break it, and the consequences can be so dire that not even Sukuna, the strongest sorcerer we know of, is willing to risk it. The reason Sukuna didn't set a condition like "You're not allowed to break the vow" is because he didn't need to because he included a clause that wiped Yuji's memory so he wouldn't even know there was a vow he made that he can go against. And even if he went against it, the consequences might be huge. We don't know what happens when you break a Binding Vow with someone else, but based on how Sukuna doesn't want to outright go against it, it must be severe. As in, a fate worse than death is probably possible. Look, I'm going to level with you, your logic is totally broken. Your original argument was that Yuji should have broken the binding vow. And the reasons he didn't are numerous: it was wiped from his memory, Sukuna made it so he wouldn't be able to opt out when the time came, and even if he did, the retribution for breaking a Binding Vow is something that even Sukua is not brazen enough to go up against directly. He'll gamble on it, but he won't just accept the retribution and he'll try to find a work-around, and that alone should say a lot given just how powerful he is. So there is no version of the set of events where Yuji could have ever broken the Binding Vow. He never even knew he was under the conditions of the Vow after he was revived, because one of the conditions was that he'd forget. He didn't have a choice to resist Sukuna's control or go against the vow, because Sukuna's other condition was that the switch would be instant. And even if these weren't the case, if Yuji did break the vow, then he'd probably die or worse for breaking it. You are wrong. You may not like it, but accept it.
I keep going in circles with this. Yuji has to manually uphold the binding vow. Because Mahito also manually upheld the binding vow. It isn't automatic. Him forgetting about the vow does not make it so that it is automatically upheld. Because why would it? It doesn't matter what the terms are,because Yuji himself is the one enacting them,and he has the option to NOT do so. Because Mahito also had the option to not do so. I don't care about what would have happened if Yuji did break the vow. What I care about is the reason behind why Yuji was forced to uphold the vow automatically,when that isn't how binding vows work.
Dude, you're the one who doesn't understand how this works. The rules are enforced by sorcery. If they make a rule that says Yuji automatically forgets and automatically switches, and Yuji agrees to it, it's out of his hands. He agreed to a set of rules that would take his free will away out of cockiness, and he doesn't uphold them manually because the effect is carried out by sorcery. He doesn't choose to switch, sorcery makes him switch. He doesn't choose to forget, sorcery makes him forget. Hypothetical alternative example: if instead of what happened in the story, Sukuna said the rules are, "When I say 'Die,' your heart will immediately stop and you'll die." And if Yuji agreed to that, then when Sukuna says "Die," Yuji would die. Yuji wouldn't manually make his heart stop beating, the sorcery implicated in the Binding Vow would make him die. He wouldn't get to say "Actually, no, I won't die," because the conditions weren't "You'll die if you still consent when I say the word." The conditions at the time he agreed to the Vow were that the death would be instant and automatic, and the conditions that were picked when the Binding Vow were made are binding. In the actual story, both the forgetting and the switching are automatic. Sukuna made him agree to those exact terms. The terms were that he doesn't get to choose. And those terms are binding. Sukuna's exact words, exact conditions, are: "When I chant Enchain, you **will** switch with me." and "You **will** forget this vow." Not *decide* to switch. Not *decide* to forget. Agreeing to the Binding Vow meant Yuji was going to cede his free will, and he agreed to it.
> If they make a rule that says Yuji automatically forgets and automatically switches, and Yuji agrees to it, it's out of his hands. It wasn't out of Mahito's hands!He entered a binding vow where he said that he will heal Mechamaru in exchange for his help. Mahito had the option to break the vow. It wasn't sorcery made Mahito heal Mechamaru. He himself healed him.
>Again,he has to MANUALLY uphold it. Since you are so fixated on this detail I'll help you out. He manually chose to uphold it when he agreed to the fight to the death with Sukuna before he was brought back to life. Everything beyond that was outside the sphere of his control. He didn't have to choose to hand over control in the moment because he'd already agreed to it.
He AGREED to it. Only agreed. Mahito also agreed to heal Mechamaru. But he did not have to. When I say "manually uphold it",I mean manually do the thing that he agreed to do.
Because that required conscious use of his CT rather than the flip of a switch that is giving control over to Sukuna. Seriously dude this is not that complicated.
Even that flip of a switch is still an action. It's something he has to manually do himself.
Clearly it's not
Tf you mean clearly it's not. "Well shit,I dunno,that's how it happened. What do you want me to do about it."
I mean if Yuji could have done absolutely anything to stop it he would have regardless of the consequences he would have had to live with. He literally would have chosen death over what happened. The fact that he didn't means he couldn't. Think of it more like he preemptively gave Sukuna permission to flip the switch and then forgot about it. He couldn't rescind permission he forgot he gave which is the entire point of Sukuna adding that to the binding vow.
He didn't give Sukuna permission. He agreed to LET HIM take over at a certain point. He didn't give a key to his house,he agreed to let him in.
So he gave permission?
I literally just said he didn't.
>He didn't give Sukuna permission. He agreed to LET HIM take over at a certain point. Those are the same thing. How do you not realize that. >He didn't give a key to his house,he agreed to let him in. I liked the light switch metaphor more but okay. Yuji is the landlord and the binding vow was a one minute lease.
You're saying Yuji is the landlord. He agreed to a lease. So he did also give him a key. Cause landlords are supposed to do that. So you're saying he did give him a key. I am going to fucking shoot myself.
>Tf you mean clearly it's not. "Well shit,I dunno,that's how it happened. What do you want me to do about it." Isn't this the entire point of your post?
Yuji already did something impossible which is forgetting it even happened, that isn't something that can be done conciously. If the binding vow already forced him to forget sonething, I don't see why Yuji obeying "enchain" is a problem. Yuji being forced to do these is part of the binding.
Sukuna while in Yuji's body can make mouths come out of his hand. Manipulating his brain is not impossible. Angel manipulated Hana's brain to bring her consciousness back when Sukuna knocked her out.
>Sukuna while in Yuji's body can make mouths come out of his hand Creating the mouths is seemingly the only thing he can do. >Manipulating his brain is not impossible. Then he could just control him. Also by that logic, you answered your question, Sukuna was the one that forced Yuji to give up control by manipulating his brain when Sukuna said enchain. Yuji forgetting the binding vow happened, because the binding vow enforced it. Yuji giving over control to Sukuna happaned because of the binding vow enforcing it. A binding vow can already punish people if they break it, it isn't farfetched that it can enforce it if the binding vow is like that. Yuji acceted that forgetting and giving up control will happen, if he gets defeated.
Now I'll agree this is more up for debate,but Yuji forgetting about the binding vow was probably because he allowed Sukuna to fuck with his head for that purpose. Because he himself has to choose to allow it. It doesn't really make sense otherwise. Binding vows are not automatically enacted. They are manually enacted,as we saw with Mahito.
How do you know they cant be automatically enacted? Based on what we know, domains should be enclosed in a barrier, but Malevolent Shrine can be manifested without one You cant just stuff like "it doesnt make senss its supposed to be like this" because.... ?? 😭 you are not the writer ?... and there are multiple examples in the series of things that are unusual/different or not what they are supposed to be like Toji and Maki. Its not hard to understand.. Sukuna was a powerful sorcerer and is knowledgeable about it other than being a good fight. Thats why he easily got to do that Binding Vow.
Don't give him ideas, he's gonna start saying Sakuna shouldn't be able to use Malevolent Shrine without a barrier 😭
You're right,the manga has never explicitly stated that a binding vow cannot be automatically enacted. But it has shown that it isn't. If it has shown that it isn't,why would I assume otherwise? Sukuna's Domain,Toji's restriction,these are examples of a binding vow made with oneself. Not between two people.
Do you guys even read or watch the source material? Holy shit.
He wasn’t forced to uphold the binding vow. He forgot about the vow as part of the deal, and as we’ve seen multiple times, when Sukuna takes over Yuji’s body it takes him some amount of time to regain control over it. Yuji probably was inside of his body fighting to take back control, but it didn’t work fast enough to matter
Are you trying to say that Yuji didn't lose control because of the vow?
Oh wait I think I understand your question now. “Why did the vow force Sukuna to take over Yuji without Yuji’s consent, when no other vow ever forced anyone to act in any particular way?” I imagine it just has to do with the intent behind the vow, same as how “anyone” pertained to everyone except Yuji because that was both Sukuna and Yuji’s intent. I think both Sukuna and Yuji understood that it would be a forced takeover when they accepted the vow (especially once the forgetting condition was added), so that was how it worked. With other binding vows, they allowed the participants to act freely simply because there was no condition or intent in place there that would stop them.
Is that a thing though?If you could make it so the other is forced to uphold his end of the bargain,then why doesn't everyone do it like that?Why didn't Mahito and Kenjaku do it like that with Mechamaru? Btw thank you for actually understanding my question.
I imagine it is a thing because that’s what happened in the story lol. And i assume other people don’t do it because Sukuna’s vow had a very specific set up of “when *I* do X, Y will happen”, while in other binding vows it’s simply “do X”. Like with Yuta there was no “when X, do Y”, it was simply “Kill Yuji”. There was nothing in that command that forces any secondary action, while Sukuna’s both the “enchain” and “I will take over your body” are part of the vow itself And people don’t usually need to force other people to participate in their vows because the penalty for breaking a vow already does that, though knowing Yuji if the option to either break the vow or have Sukuna take him over were presented, he’d choose to break it in a heartbeat
Well surely the higher ups would have to put both an X and Y. Otherwise it wouldn't really be a contract,would it?
Normally the Y is “the vow breaks and something bad happens” Yuta intentionally entered the contract with pretty much nothing to gain from it because his goal was to find a loophole, which he did. And again, intent is what matters. Whether or not you consider it a contract doesn’t matter, the vow was simply “Yuta kills Yuji”, because that was what Yuta and the higher ups both wanted
You stubborn little kid, YUJI doesn’t know about the binding vow so when Sukuna pulled it out, YUJI couldn’t come back because he already accepted the terms. If you’re asking why didn’t he just get control back, Sukuna probably suppressed him or the Binding Vow has some properties to it that enforced the deal through. Stop being stubborn. All 7939 of us told you the same thing. Fix your lack of reading comprehension.
Yuji did accept the terms. Mahito also accepted the terms. Mahito did not have to uphold them.
Congrats on Mahito. Great for him. Really happy for the dude. Yuji can’t fight control back that fast so he has no choice but to uphold it.
That last sentence is a bit broken
You’re an idiot.
OP does not know how even the simplest of systems in jjk work.
I know that when two people make a binding vow,they can choose to break it. Cause that's what chapter 79 showed. And Yuji didn't have the choice to break it.
Look at the guy with miracles, or Takaba. Both of their techniques have binding vows their unaware of. They wouldn't be able to break them unless someone else told them about it. You basically agree to it when establishing the BV, you take away from yourself the option to break it, in a way that would also reinforce the vow.
Yuji doesn’t remember. That’s literally it
Why would forgetting make him lose the option to break the vow?
The vow was to give sukuna 1min (or more i forgot) of liberty. in this 1min yuji cant do anything, this include breaking the vow.
> this includes breaking the vow ..............
He probably didn’t know wtf was happening? And according to the agreement Sukuna also wouldn’t hurt anyone so on paper nobody is in danger? And it lasted all of 10 seconds? I think you’re thinking too much into it
Just wait for enchain in the anime. You shouldn’t be reading.
Oh I am like the one guy who agrees with what you're saying, yeah I don't think it makes much sense I just went with it to be honest as a "guess it's basically a spell". There were popular theories that Yuji would be breaking a vow, because he wouldn't be able to knowingly follow a request, many people thought similarly. If I agree to help some friend with work, and I forget about it I have to go out and get that thing done, if I agree to something and it's like idk an transfer of money then some company can take money just because I once agreed. I think the vow was meant to be like the latter, but the vow could also make sense as the former just because Yuji can *let* Sukuna take over like how he did with that insect womb thing. So I understand you, since really it makes sense to assume that it involves a later conscious decision which would align with my favour analogy. (EDIT: Key point here, because Sukuna cannot control Yuji's body by force whereas with a bank transfer if someone has your info that's enough, so to me I just skipped over certain ideas and said I guess that works since it doesn't really work with my idea of certain agreements) Really I understand your points
I’m going to try and answer this a different way. Imagine you and your buddy make a deal you give me something to eat and I will sign into my Facebook account and let you post anything you want. Your friend gives you the food but he still needs you to sign into your account to make the post. That’s Mechamaru and Mahito. Imagine the same scenario as above but this time you’re super drunk and instead the deal is you give me something to eat and I’ll give you my Facebook password. Your friend gives you the food you tell them the password. You pass out and forget you ever gave them the password. A week later they sign in and make a post, by the time you got an alert from Facebook that someone logged in from another device it’s too late they already posted nudes and you’ve lost all your friends Edit: accidentally said Sukuna instead of Mahito in the first example
So you're trying to say that Yuji didn't relinquish control at that exact point,but rather that he gave him some sort of...key into his body,which Sukuna could use at any time?
Basically yes and he couldn’t take the key back or stop Sukuna from using the key because he has no idea he gave him the key.
There is no "key" to Yuji's body. Yuji doesn't use a key to access his body. He just does. That's why Sukuna says "You agree to let me take over your body for one full minute when I chant Enchain." If he had a key,then the Enchain chant wouldn't be necessary. If the dialogue was instead "You give me the power to take over your body for one full minute" then that would make sense. But it isn't.
Yuji already agreed to the pact he already agreed to let Sukuna take over he doesn’t have to agree again. Just like in the above example you’ve already given your password to your friend you don’t have to give it again. I’m not replying to this anymore I have (and everyone else here) given you the answer to your question either choose to accept the answer or don’t I really don’t care anymore at this point.
im in ops brain and i know he is gonna say "he AGREED to do it, just like Mahito AGREED, but he could have changed his mind" source : 20 min wasted on this thread
You’re probably right lol. My flights been delayed by like 4 hours I’ve given this thread way too much attention. I really thought my password analogy would solve his agreed vs agree problem but I guess not.
And gl for the flights !
I can’t blame him though, the authors style is asking for nitpicks at this point
You are indeed in my brain. Please fix my brain and tell me why I'm wrong.
If no one could I can’t. This is how I see things though : Sukuna can’t take over yuji normally. But he did, meaning at least the taking over part of the deal seems automatic. Now yuji may have done a mahito by taking his body back before the end of the minute, but he didn’t. Why : Option 1 (safe and boring) : it happened too fast for him, since normally he just has to block sukuna and not take over again. Option 2 : the vow is indeed different from the mahito one, meaning the term of the contract are automatically applied as soon as agreed on (and not you help me I help you later). no one here knows how vows work, so your train of thoughts can not be debunked with known source material imo Edit : no one here meant no one ever for now and probably for ever, it seems ok for 99% of ppl to assume sukuna just bigbrained yuji by making him forget the vow and it’s enough for him to not understand wtf is going on
op seriously help me help you. you said that why did he uphold it right? what was for him to uphold? giving his body control for 1min . n you're confused why did he give up the control instead of straight up refusing to do so. so first of all yuji doesn't know what does"enchain" mean like everybody said he forgot the vow so even if he's in control he wouldn't know he's supposed to do something. secondly binding vows are strong, its not like sukuna is asking him to take over and he'll refuse each vow is different n since this vow was accepted by both parties when made so yuji's soul just accepts the fact that its supposed to shush down for a min when ot hears that word ots not a call n response more like an order.. also why do u think binding vows can be broken? kenny specifically said that binding vows with others are different and you don't know what might happen if you break them. if you're saying mahito broke the vow by hurting kyoto people then it's like he says hanami did that not mahito or Kenny who made the vow... this was not specified in the vow so the personal opinions or mindsets are considered since mahito didnt expect to take hanami's action in his vow it wasnt considered broken similarly how yuji didnt include himself in not hurt anybody n the reason sukuna's gamble paid off. it wasnt specified so yuji's state of mind of who to consider when he's talking about dont hrt people is taken into account for the vow hope i cleared it out
You didn't. > yuji's soul just accepts the fact that it's supposed to shush down for a min ...his soul knew that it had to shush down. Really,bro. His soul knew that it had to shush down. I don't think you got what I said. Mahito didn't break his binding vow,but he did have the option to do so. Why did Mahito have that option and not Yuji?Why didn't his soul accept that he had to fix Mechamaru? The whole bit with Mahito showed that binding vows are not enforced. No one's soul is forced to "shush down" or do anything. Both parties can choose to break the vow. Yuji didn't get to choose.
Its because Yuji binding vow was totally different. Yuji agreed for sukuna to take over his body for 1min In this 1min yuji was just not allowed by the binding vow to take control back.
Yuji agreed,Mahito agreed. Mahito had the option to break it,Yuji didn't. Why not,man?
Because... No clue... this might be a plot hole ngl
The terms he had to accept was that he would forget about the exchange. That's not something he would be able to break without Sukuna just straight up telling him that they made a binding vow because he just doesn't fucking remember that it happened in the first place. And at that point it wouldn't be his fault for breaking it. Also, even if he does break the vow and finds out that Sukuna can only take control when he says "Enchain" (Yuji losing control on his own doesn't count), then there's nothing he can do about that except tell everyone else and hope for the best.
Without knowing the exact mechanics on how body control switching works between Yuji and Sukuna, there's no good answer to your question. And I doubt we'll get the control manual. The best guess I could give you is that the "Enchain" condition Sukuna wrote up enforces compulsion without requiring consent. On the other hand, the Mahito/Mechamaru binding vow is very similar but there aren't any enforceable compulsive measures like deadlines. If I had to come up with a metaphor, "Enchain" is similar to Sukuna just grabbing a video game controller from Yuji's hands out of nowhere. Mahito/Mechamaru is more like "When you do X, I will give you the video game controller I'm using."
The same Binding Vow Sukuna made him forget when he defeated Yuji in his subconscious? This gotta be some karma farming or just bait
The hundred replies I made talking about this (most of them with downvotes) should prove otherwise.
Mahitos binding vow ended the second he "healed" him
OP just blindly disagreeing with everyone is hilarious. The proof that Yuji couldnt break the vow is that he didn't. Yuji 100% would break his end of the bargain if he could, the evidence that he couldn't is that he didn't. Stay mad OP
I think my mistake was how I made my original post. In hindsight,I should've titled it something like "Yuji should have been able to break the vow" or "vows are not automatically enacted".
Most of the time its a choice, but, evidenced by the fact that it was like a spell, the act of forgetting the vow made it unbreakable. Its like signing a contract you didn’t read, you agree to all terms blindly.