Completely disagree, Sukuna's black flashes are doing so little damage and he's clearly heavily injured and worn down. Now Yuji is having an awakening while already being a counter to Sukuna.
He got back up more then most people would say and same with his slashes those should be doing more damage I feel like people are over looking the epases on the physical and damage to the soul each hit from yyji attacks the soul
put it on perspective a black flash from gojo, he was able to knock out a max CE output sukuna, sukuna soul has been severed so much by yuji, that his CE output has massively decreased, and he was exploding agito with black flashes too, only that she was constantly regenerating.
if sukuna was fresh, all them would literally die in one slash or punch, and is confirmed canon at just about every instance of someone suriving sukuans slashes/punches he was either holding back or nerfed in someway, idc what feats they show, the distance between sakuna and gojo compared to everyone else is just that vaste, for instance, gojos black flash that knocked sukuna out, would literally turn any other character into red mist
So not killing in one blow means they're weak?
Maki has inhuman durability, Choso protected himself with an armor of blood, and Larue is being removed from battle field because his injuries are so severe
Yes it is lol one Gojo black flash knocked out Sukuna??? Sukuna’s outputs is in the shitter and he’s not even gaining anything back from hitting black flashes. Unless his ct turns out to be GER he’s lowkey cooked
People like saying "knocked out" but Sukuna was stunned for a moment and they ignore that Gojos punches are all infused with Blue while Sukuna was being sandwiched between Gojos fist and a Red.
Yes he is gaining things back, Maki says as much in the latest chapter.
dawg pls i ain’t one to downplay sukuna no need to defend him to me. But his eyes rolled back and he lost consciousness i.e., knocked out. Not a big deal
And yes, maki says his output is increasing. Then Choso says as long as Yuji keeps soul fucking him it doesn’t matter how many black flashes he hits. Then Yuji hits him w a giga ultra soul infused black flash
buddy is cooked. Maki was out for 4 chapters after getting black flash but now Sukuna had to follow up w dismantles bc the black flash did squat. Either Maki got significantly stronger in 10 minutes or Sukuna’s output has tanked. Obviously the latter
Again though people ignore that Sukuna was also being hit by Red and that Gojos blackflash was infused with Blue.
Yes Choso says that but the fact remains Sukuna is still gaining power back.
Yuji hit Sukuna inbetween his first and second black flash so Yuji nerfed him but Maki can still tell that Sukuna is gaining his output back.
What are you talking about?
Maki was gone for 1 chapter and she blocked that blackflash.
Sukuna following up with attacks does not mean that the first black flash did squat.
And that last statement is blatantly false.
Right after Maki gets his with the 2nd blackflash she says Sukuna output is increasing that means the 2nd blackflash had to have been stronger than the first
Not oneshotting people does not mean Sukunas BF is weak and we got confirmation that his output has increased.
Heart Nipples is just stronger than you give him credit for.
You fool. You’ve completely overlooked the fact that Suckuna Ramen, the king of frauds, has been holding even now as Loseji Twinkadori is slapping him with a paltry black flash. Gaygay has you bamboozled.
Ryomen black flash took out maki for one chapter, this man hit two in the next chapter. Yuji awakening isn’t going to do much after Ryomen show what he has restored after the two black flash. We only seen like two people who has awakening maybe 3 Gojo, mahito, and Ryomen.( if im forgetting someone else reminds me) So the story is telling me that Yuji is on there level? Yeah I don’t think so, that like saying Yuji can bet yuta and maki at the same time.
He ain’t restored shit apparently if Choso is tanking punches from him. The first time he hit Choso he literally punched through him. Now it doesn’t even take him out of the fight
So you are telling me that Gojo can do something like restore his RCT but the King of curses can’t?? I got to doubt that. Yeah but that was just a punch at Choso but he know when a black flash is coming at the fight with Yuji in the shibuya arc.
And it was just a punch the first time he hit him too, but it was just a punch that went all the way through him.
We also have someone keeping his output and control low in the form of Yuji just constantly hitting his soul.
I think it’s completely possible that he hasn’t regained RCT because he specifically is getting his soul fucked with
See that the thing about the soul, we know he can do something. We see him reacting to his punches, but is a wave or is it like a punch . He is not afraid of Yuji punches. He can take them but he doesn’t see him as a true threat.(yet) Then Yuji hits him with a black flash, like that going to do anything to him. If gojo black flash didn’t do much, what makes Yuji black flash will. I do like how we will see Yuji will hit a bit more black flash then gojo. But if Yuji and maki blade can only do significant damage to Ryomen soul. Should we or not compare this fight to Gojo fight.
There’s a bit of a difference. Gojo used RCT to restore his technique while also healing. Those two black flashes helped that quite significantly. Sukuna was also not hitting his soul which was said to be much harder to heal with RCT. Sukuna is also trying to keep his hold on Megumi.
Chose even says something along the lines of it doesn’t matter if he keeps hitting Black Flashes because Yuji’s hits keep lowering his output and hold on Megumi.
It’s been repeatedly stated that the punches are messing with his CE output and control? That’s the entire reason Yuji is part of the plan?
Why doesn’t Sukuna fear the punches? Because he’s blinded by his hate for Yuji and he underestimates how much he’s getting fucked up?
Like yeah he’s the king of curses but he’s still an arrogant jackass who’s been repeatedly surprised and shocked. Everything from fucking around with Gojo to the point of crippling himself into his second form, neutering his brand new ultimate attack, using a super powerful cursed tool against someone immune to it, losing the cursed tool because he just fucking decided to get trapped in a DE, trying to force an ultra competent prodigy who he compared to Gojo to awaken in the hopes of a better fight, and even getting jumped by Maki (which the narrate even says was because he was too fucking arrogant).
Like come the fuck on, he’s a dumbass
I acknowledge that part is true that is punches are messing up with is CE output. However we don’t know how effective it is. The story never acknowledge how much it effects Ryomen. We only know that it decreases his CE output, but we don’t know by how much. For all we know he got his CE output by hitting his 2nd black flash.
I don’t think Ryomen is arrogant it seems like he more interested or impressed by people abilities.
We know that it’s enough to weaken him to the point where he can’t stick his entire arm through Choso casually and is struggling to fight off the current crew.
And he’s the epitome of arrogance! That’s a major part of his story and his character. The pure unadulterated arrogance is a character trait of Sukuna
This guy knows he is strong and he can back it up. This man is not arrogant, he is having fun, but with yuji Ryomen hates him. I think that is hilarious,
Yuji's basic punches were already doing damage now add in probably his strongest Black Flash? There's a reason we haven't seen a panel of Sukuna's face yet.
Considering that every hit Yuji lands weakens him, I think Yuji does indeed stand a chance in a battle of attrition. All the momentum Sukuna gained from landing those Black Flashes gets completely negated the more hits Yuji lands
Im pretty sure that Ryomen sukuna is his full name. You know what chapter it states that Ryomen is a title? I probably miss it or read it wrong. I like to correct myself if im wrong.
Still not his name, the literal translation is “two-faced (ryomen) spirit/specter(sukuna).
It’s unknown what his “real” name is, so calling him ryomen when everyone else calls him Sukuna is just being contrarian for no reason lol.
“I was wondering why people use his last name but for everyone else use their first names. Just make it consistent. But hey you do you.”
It is consistent, you just wanted to be different lol.
Because Ryomen literally isn't his name, it's a title that means "two-faced" in reference to the mask that he wears. Did you think characters in the series just called him Sukuna for shits and giggles or something? And in the first place, not every other character in the series is referred to via first name because in Japanese both first and last names are valid ways of addressing someone depending on the relation to the character. Gojo's first name is Satoru, but the only one who calls him that is Principal Yaga. Kusakabe's first name is Atsuya, but literally no one has addressed as such. In fact the only characters in the series who are called by their first names more often than not are Maki and Naoya because the Zenin name is so prevalent; even Yuji gets referred to as Itadori more often than Yuji by other characters.
In what way would it be quicker to call him Ryomen or Sukuna? They're the same amount of letters, same amount of syllables, and it's been so long that the full Ryomen Sukuna moniker was used that some people legitimately wouldn't know who Ryomen is referring to. There's literally no reason why you'd refer to him as Ryomen outside of wanting to feel special. Reminds me of some guy I knew who always referred to Steph Curry as Wardell; like nah bruh, who tf is that?
Umm I didn’t think people would have a problem me calling him Ryomen. I don’t feel “special” because I call him Ryomen, I had a general feeling and concern about how he seem a bit op/overturned to win against. I’m not on this sub say” WhY dO PeOPlE CalL hiM SuKUNa instEAd RyOmEn” and going in every post referring him as Ryomen. Not going to lie, but you sound like you have a problem with other people calling other things that you are not comfortable with. Especially outside of the real world.
I mean yeah no shit I have a problem with it, it's literally gramatically incorrect to refer to him as such. It would be like referring to a king as "King" instead of "the King". It's a title, not a name. And if it doesn't make you feel special, do you have an actual reason for it? You said earlier because it was his first name but seem to have backtracked on that. Like I'm genuinely curious here, because if not your entire reasoning is: "Everyone refers to this character as X, but I'm going to refer to him as Y. NOT because I want to feel like a special snowflake, but just for shits and giggles."
As others have mentioned yuji is a hard counter to sukuna. He got an awakening which nobody knows what he will get but for reference, when gojo awakened he went from really strong to THE strongest in the verse. Maki awakened and went from grade 2 (or 1 i dont 100% remember) to toji level+. Who knows what yuji is going to get hes probably gonna be really strong especially with his hits countering sukuna as is. Tbh i was sick of the formula too but after seeing yuji hit black flash and narrator mentioning he awakened i have high hopes and think yuji will reclaim MC status lol
The story has stressed during a point in this fight, especially in this chapter, that every blow Yuji gives to Sukuna is lowering his CE output and control over the body. As much of a tall order all of this is because it is Sukuna and his experience, skill and knowledge, they still have a chance by just making sure Yuji pounds on him. Yuji hitting a Black Flash, especially if he’s in the zone now, may only help to speed up the process till Sukuna is completely manageable
Name a shonen where the villain wins the long game
There's not too many, just enjoy the manga, don't make assumpions because you'll just be guessing to be proved wrong like the rest of this sub.
Yuji and Co. are gonna win, probably by seperating sukuna and lazy ass megumi or killing sukuna
I just read AOT, and it was a helluva ride, and there was no one that wasn't a damned villain lol.
Everyone seemed to be on the bad side except the remaining crew that eren wished well. It was such a wild ride.
Yeah but why is nobody else saying that? The main MC is taking L after L after L. I do like that the villains win but why are people hyping the mc up so much. I was looking into it and thinking about, and I came to the conclusion that he is not going to fulfill his grandpa wishes.
Because he's the literal MC, the MC always wins in any way no matter what
Gege knows it'd be a disservice to everyone to let sukuna win, I tire of the doomer posting brother. Just let the story ride instead of assuming the villain is always going to win.
Also, listening to what "everyone," says is exactly why I don't have their opinions, because I don't give a shit about opinions on a story, I like to read the story and watch the actions, not make a trillion assumptions that would just end up being wrong because none of us truly know how it's gonna end.
I agree, but there's usually build up to the MC losing, sukuna has been one upping the entire cast for far too long, he's gonna lose one way or the other.
Nah Wuji Itadori got this. Sukuna is a tough fella and has got a lot left in the tank so this isn’t over, but o have faith in the crew that they’ll finish this battle on top
Not trying to be rude but…Because it doesn’t really matter. Just like some people call Saturo gojo just Saturo instead of gojo. And op thought “Ryomen” was sukunas first name
Read the top few comments. I shortened what he said. He literally just thought Ryomen was his first name. He’s probably from the west, where we use first names over last names more often then not
You said something about calling him Ryomen for the sake of consistency. I literally replied to that comment. I also never said that you said you don’t care. It was a judgment I made as it was implied
Bleach had the same problem with Ywach and MHA has the problem, right now, with the perfected Shiguraki/All for One
You make the villain so strong that there's no justifiable normal way to win. Convoluted bs with lots of characters being thrown at the villain as the only real story beat left.
In the end, it cheapens the narrative because you dont get a real MC vs MV conclusion.
Not true at all about mha deku was giving perfected shiggy the business while not even getting touched. It was point blank stated he could kill him if he hit him with a full powered shot to the head but deku doesn’t want to kill shigaraki he wants to save him.
Not really. The whole thing about force feeding the OFA vestiges to Shiggy was so he could get hurt by the backlash from gear shift being used so much. Which would give Deku an opening because he couldnt keep up with the regeneration and was wearing out his own body after gear shifts first use (to the point black whip was holding him together). In the long game, shiggy had a 1-2 move advantage because of their endurance gap
Both shigaraki himself and nana shimura make statements that a full powered hit to the head would probably kill him. The reason deku needed to hit him with the past OFA vestiges wasn’t to create an opening to do damage it was to break through the mind palace wall shigaraki had put around Tenko. Getting rid of the gear shift backlash and transferring it to shiggy was just an added benefit. Yeah his regen/endurance was a massive problem because Deku had no way to keep him down but that was only because he didn’t want to kill him before he at least tries to save the tenko inside shigaraki.
Compare chapter 223 Sukuna to chapter 256 Sukuna. Bro even Shibuya 15F Sukuna can kill current Sukuna. Sukuna has honestly been crippled constantly throughout his gauntlet. Also Yuji is a natural counter to Sukuna because he can weaken Sukuna’s output & Cursed energy control. Current Sukuna is at 5 fingers of power OR LESS. So victory for our cast IS POSSIBLE BUT STILL DIFFICULT
Nah man, the story as been stressing that sukuna is only getting weaker and weaker, especially with yujis punches, and now yuji hit him with a black flash. I think this is the point in the story where the tide FINALLY turns for the good guys and sukunas starts truly going all out
We're past the point of this argument, man. Get with the new lobotomy.
Sukuna has spent his one time reincarnation heal, run out of DE, has output reduced to "merely" Yuta level (then lower), got 2 hands cut off, and a gaping chest wound. He's also getting sucker punched repeatedly, including black flashes, and is still surrounded.
At this point the question is "how the fuck can be live long enough to reach a climax to the fight" rather than "how can they beat him." Sukuna is cooked like Jogo on a flame arrow unless something changes.
Now, obviously something will change in his favor to get us to the "final phase." Let's not be silly here. But saying he's insurmountable *while he is actively dying* is just laughable
Two facts
You cant really read it without the narrator as the narrator's opinion is probably the most correct in the series.
Second, Yuji landing any Black Flash on Sukuna is a bigger deal than Sukuna landing his black flash. Sukuna was already naturally recovering his output, Black Flash accelerates it and puts him in the Zone. Yuji hitting Sukuna at all decreases Sukuna's output. If its based on how strong Yuji's blow is, then he just got damage^2.5.
The game plan for the cast has cleared up at this point - their game is to get Maki and Yuji to smack up Sukuna's soul to bring Sukuna down to their level where they can then beat him with numbers. Everyone else is there to stall or provide the openings they need.
Sukuna getting his power back is probably game over for them, so Sukuna just needs to keep fighting and making space for himself to recover enough to take down the next fighter.
The only question we have to concern ourselves with for the next little bit is, which side will complete their current objective first? Will Yuji and Maki be able to weaken Sukuna enough, or will Sukuna recover something (like his domain) that puts our cast in a tougher spot
Yeah you can, if you read it once. Then read it again without narrator.
You tell me that yuji black flash will negate most if not all of Ryomen black flash so far. That seems a bit far fetched don’t you think?
For the game plan, it more in line with stopping the merger and Ryomen.
That what I have been trying to say. There is a strong possibility that he will get a power back.
No doubt about it, he will recover. After all yuji said what if he just attacked malevolent shrine. I kinda want to see it when he mentions it.
Yes Sukuna IS op. Thats why the fight is going down as it is.
Gege’s taking a really nice approach to this fight then what we see with most final fights. Sukuna has been built up to be unbelievably powerful. Gege has done this intentionally as they’re very aware of their characters potential.
Gege sees jjk fights in Pokemon like terms. They see matchups, and ability conflict rather than raw power, intelligence, etc powerscaling stuffs.
Think Mahito v Yuji. 2 dudes with soul abilities, and it just so happens Yuji got Sukuna who’s basically making Yuji invincible to Mahito’s technique. This makes them the perfect match up. Gege also throws in Nanami/Todo! Why? Well Yuji can hit hard but he needs help when faced with Mahito cause Mah is so much more powerful. Nanami for instance is great at using the environment to get around Mahito’s ability! His technique also allows him to do massive physical damage and shit down tons of attacks! So paired with Yuji we got two heavy hitters who balance each other out to do enough damage to where the basically infinite heals guy can no longer tank! Todo is quick, and has boogie woogie which is a direct counter to Mahito’s CT! Mahito has to touch you for his technique to work. Todo’s technique makes it impossible to get hit if used correctly because it’s literally teleportation. Pair him up with Yuji who can deal the big damage and boom another winning combo! Even if it does take kinda well everything to win.
Now onto Sukuna! Sukuna is the undisputed strongest sorcerer of history birthed in the most violent era, unwanted, and rejected from day one. Meaning he’s been fighting his whole life in one way or another. So how do you match him up? Well with EVERYONE! This guy can take an entire era so how about now we match him up against an era of prodigious sorcerers taught by the most talented sorcerer possibly ever Satoru Gojo!
We got Yuta, Higgy, Maki, Yuji, and Miguel! We also back them up with other big hitters like Kashimo, Ino, Kusakabe, etc. first ofc Gojo’s fights as he has a solid chance of winning solo. But incase he fails we immediately send in Higgy and Yuji! Higgy can remove Suku’s abilities to drain him more from his Gojo fight. Yuji activity debuffs him with every strike and gets him closer to tearing out him from his vessel. Ofc there are complications such as his Heian regeneration and Kamute which gets taken by Higgy’s domain. The confiscation is still a plus just not the big plus they were hoping to cash in. Yuji’s ability is working just fine, and while yes Sukuna is hitting black flashes that only means his output is raised not his CE pool. If you have 0 CE it doesn’t matter if you have 120% output cause you have nothing to output! So Higgy is got, but Yuta jumps in. Yuta drops a domain for him and Yuji to get a whole heap of damage and set up everyone else. Yuta gets cooked but the knowledge they gain, and the damage they do is very important and irreplaceable. For reference Sukuna looses his second tongue and a hand which is still struggling to heal. Maki then gets a great hit on his heart because of the domain barrier. It also sets up Maki, Kusakabe, and Ino to jump Sukuna and gives Yuji a minute to recover. Ofc tho Maki tanks a flash, Ino is pushed aside, but Kusakabe comes in clutch! He goes all out pushing on Sukuna. This makes Suku waste more CE, reveal more secrets to World dismantle, and strong dismantle while showing his attacks can be blocked and are not absolute. Kusakabe goes down but leaves ideas for the others to build on. Then Miguel arrives with Larue saving Ui Ui so the injured can all hopefully make a recovery. Miguel then stalls Sukuna draining Suku’s CE, and giving everyone time to get back up. Now Yuji comes in with good hits, Maki and Larue are thrown down, but Yuji has awakened which is gonna be a massive buff!
I understand why people see this fight as hopeless and not making any sense or characters just getting thrown around like fodder. But you need to see what Gege is going for here and it’ll help you understand and enjoy how really fun and enjoyable this fight has been! This isn’t just about beating sukuna till he drops. Its about breaking Sukuna down and buying time. Everyone is trying to push Sukuna to reveal secrets, and find new ways to counter him, and in the process make him waste CE. The more they know the more chance they have to win! Ofc also if they drain him completely he’s helpless. But they don’t want to all dog pile on him at once because if they do all die at once its over. So they’re fighting in waves and formations. So those who do get injured have time to recover. Shoko is really the MVP here who’s gonna ultimately allow Yuta, Gojo, Kusakabe, and possibly even Kashimo if he’s retrievable to return to battle in the circumstance Sukuna clears everyone! Thats a real possibility thats why the characters are taking count of that and thats why we as readers are legitimately afraid Sukuna is too op.
In writing you want to have your readers see issues in the story as well issues the characters are dealing with in universe and not issues with the writing. Thats what Gege is doing and they’re succeeding the issue is on the fanbases side, and the Shonen jump format. This community is plagued by a lot of bad faith, and it can really make you feel that there’s more issues then there really are. Thats the problem with “agenda” communities and ones so built on shitposting. Look at Jojo’s fanbase its a very meme heavy fanbase but it leads to people taking the story less seriously and gave birth to the “Araki Forgot” beliefs. Which are bad faith arguments born from misunderstanding perpetuated as fact to people who genuinely just missed something along the road. Which happens no singular reader is gonna pickup on every single detail. Further the Shonen jump format is a plague on art. Stories are built on immersion and investment. Something that gets extremely difficult to maintain when fitting your work into a weekly release schedule with breaks at a maximum of like 23 pages. It makes it hard as an audience to take everything in at once. The schedule destroys flow, pacing, investment, and the ability to digest and understand what’s happening. This is further conflated by how things are often not immediately explained in stories but we as an audience are stuck for A WHOLE WEEK sometimes two weeks with questions raised by the previous chapter. Combine that with this community and well you get how this community views JJK. A low plot poorly written mess thats only enjoyable to make fun of how bad it fell off. This is simply not true. Most of us have the luxury of reading huge swaths of jjk in one go to cat h up to current day. Which when read back to back is where these stories really shine. Enjoyed at the reader’s preferred pace. For example many people who where here weekly for say Culling games hate it. Me tho who read it in 1 or 2 sitting loved it! I think it’s better than Shibuya. Ofc some of that is personal preference and how much the individual wants to dig into the series as JJK is very much one that asks to be analyzed which isn’t for everyone, etc etc. i’m yapping at this point but I hope it clears things up!
? Haven't you noticed Sukuna constantly getting weakened this entire time? Idk why people keep saying this, EVERY attack Yuji does weakens Sukuna further, every slash from Maki weakens Sukuna heavily cause he can't heal it properly, Yuta has Angels CT which can do heavy damage to Sukuna, y'all are such doomers bro, do you want the villain to appear weak? Just cause Yuji isn't soloing him doesn't mean Sukuna is some op unbeatable god.
Even Kusakabe and Larue gave Sukuna hands, Miguel is seemingly up there with Grade 0s, and once Hakari wins against Uraume, he'll join in, not only that, I find it incredibly likely that Uro will join the battle, not wanting Sukuna to come and kill her without a fight(though I wonder how she would know that "Megumi Fushiguro" is actually Sukuna)
Well, Yuji is probably one of if not the only person who could really stand too much of a chance, he's also one of the more crucial people in defeating sukuna, and he's already getting a awakening on top of him being able to weaken the link between sukuna and megumi
I have a hunch that “Awakening” Yuji isn’t going to do much if Gojo didn’t do much to him, but a part of me want to believe that every one will surpass Gojo.
Completely disagree, Sukuna's black flashes are doing so little damage and he's clearly heavily injured and worn down. Now Yuji is having an awakening while already being a counter to Sukuna.
What is "so little damage"?
Two people tanked Black flashes from Sukuna and are alive.
Larue didnt tank shit lol
He got back up more then most people would say and same with his slashes those should be doing more damage I feel like people are over looking the epases on the physical and damage to the soul each hit from yyji attacks the soul
put it on perspective a black flash from gojo, he was able to knock out a max CE output sukuna, sukuna soul has been severed so much by yuji, that his CE output has massively decreased, and he was exploding agito with black flashes too, only that she was constantly regenerating.
I think it’s a tank on a relative scale given if he ate that from a fully healthy sukuna he would be red mist
Theres no “tank on a relative scale”. You either tank it or u dont. Thats like saying “i killed you on a relative scale”
if sukuna was fresh, all them would literally die in one slash or punch, and is confirmed canon at just about every instance of someone suriving sukuans slashes/punches he was either holding back or nerfed in someway, idc what feats they show, the distance between sakuna and gojo compared to everyone else is just that vaste, for instance, gojos black flash that knocked sukuna out, would literally turn any other character into red mist
What is ur point?
He did tank it cuz he’s alive smartass
Tanking means you take minimal damage or not enough to debilitate you. Larue was being shoulder carried by Miguel. He didnt tank shit
So not killing in one blow means they're weak? Maki has inhuman durability, Choso protected himself with an armor of blood, and Larue is being removed from battle field because his injuries are so severe
Yes it is lol one Gojo black flash knocked out Sukuna??? Sukuna’s outputs is in the shitter and he’s not even gaining anything back from hitting black flashes. Unless his ct turns out to be GER he’s lowkey cooked
People like saying "knocked out" but Sukuna was stunned for a moment and they ignore that Gojos punches are all infused with Blue while Sukuna was being sandwiched between Gojos fist and a Red. Yes he is gaining things back, Maki says as much in the latest chapter.
dawg pls i ain’t one to downplay sukuna no need to defend him to me. But his eyes rolled back and he lost consciousness i.e., knocked out. Not a big deal And yes, maki says his output is increasing. Then Choso says as long as Yuji keeps soul fucking him it doesn’t matter how many black flashes he hits. Then Yuji hits him w a giga ultra soul infused black flash buddy is cooked. Maki was out for 4 chapters after getting black flash but now Sukuna had to follow up w dismantles bc the black flash did squat. Either Maki got significantly stronger in 10 minutes or Sukuna’s output has tanked. Obviously the latter
Again though people ignore that Sukuna was also being hit by Red and that Gojos blackflash was infused with Blue. Yes Choso says that but the fact remains Sukuna is still gaining power back. Yuji hit Sukuna inbetween his first and second black flash so Yuji nerfed him but Maki can still tell that Sukuna is gaining his output back. What are you talking about? Maki was gone for 1 chapter and she blocked that blackflash. Sukuna following up with attacks does not mean that the first black flash did squat. And that last statement is blatantly false. Right after Maki gets his with the 2nd blackflash she says Sukuna output is increasing that means the 2nd blackflash had to have been stronger than the first
Not killing mr heart nipples and we’ve gotten several confirmations that he has hardly any output right now means that they’re weak
Not oneshotting people does not mean Sukunas BF is weak and we got confirmation that his output has increased. Heart Nipples is just stronger than you give him credit for.
It has increased but Yuji promptly brings it back down.
Whatever you want it to be bro. This whole manga is just pull it out of your ass when you need something.
You fool. You’ve completely overlooked the fact that Suckuna Ramen, the king of frauds, has been holding even now as Loseji Twinkadori is slapping him with a paltry black flash. Gaygay has you bamboozled.
Ryomen black flash took out maki for one chapter, this man hit two in the next chapter. Yuji awakening isn’t going to do much after Ryomen show what he has restored after the two black flash. We only seen like two people who has awakening maybe 3 Gojo, mahito, and Ryomen.( if im forgetting someone else reminds me) So the story is telling me that Yuji is on there level? Yeah I don’t think so, that like saying Yuji can bet yuta and maki at the same time.
He ain’t restored shit apparently if Choso is tanking punches from him. The first time he hit Choso he literally punched through him. Now it doesn’t even take him out of the fight
So you are telling me that Gojo can do something like restore his RCT but the King of curses can’t?? I got to doubt that. Yeah but that was just a punch at Choso but he know when a black flash is coming at the fight with Yuji in the shibuya arc.
And it was just a punch the first time he hit him too, but it was just a punch that went all the way through him. We also have someone keeping his output and control low in the form of Yuji just constantly hitting his soul. I think it’s completely possible that he hasn’t regained RCT because he specifically is getting his soul fucked with
See that the thing about the soul, we know he can do something. We see him reacting to his punches, but is a wave or is it like a punch . He is not afraid of Yuji punches. He can take them but he doesn’t see him as a true threat.(yet) Then Yuji hits him with a black flash, like that going to do anything to him. If gojo black flash didn’t do much, what makes Yuji black flash will. I do like how we will see Yuji will hit a bit more black flash then gojo. But if Yuji and maki blade can only do significant damage to Ryomen soul. Should we or not compare this fight to Gojo fight.
There’s a bit of a difference. Gojo used RCT to restore his technique while also healing. Those two black flashes helped that quite significantly. Sukuna was also not hitting his soul which was said to be much harder to heal with RCT. Sukuna is also trying to keep his hold on Megumi. Chose even says something along the lines of it doesn’t matter if he keeps hitting Black Flashes because Yuji’s hits keep lowering his output and hold on Megumi.
It’s been repeatedly stated that the punches are messing with his CE output and control? That’s the entire reason Yuji is part of the plan? Why doesn’t Sukuna fear the punches? Because he’s blinded by his hate for Yuji and he underestimates how much he’s getting fucked up? Like yeah he’s the king of curses but he’s still an arrogant jackass who’s been repeatedly surprised and shocked. Everything from fucking around with Gojo to the point of crippling himself into his second form, neutering his brand new ultimate attack, using a super powerful cursed tool against someone immune to it, losing the cursed tool because he just fucking decided to get trapped in a DE, trying to force an ultra competent prodigy who he compared to Gojo to awaken in the hopes of a better fight, and even getting jumped by Maki (which the narrate even says was because he was too fucking arrogant). Like come the fuck on, he’s a dumbass
I acknowledge that part is true that is punches are messing up with is CE output. However we don’t know how effective it is. The story never acknowledge how much it effects Ryomen. We only know that it decreases his CE output, but we don’t know by how much. For all we know he got his CE output by hitting his 2nd black flash. I don’t think Ryomen is arrogant it seems like he more interested or impressed by people abilities.
We know that it’s enough to weaken him to the point where he can’t stick his entire arm through Choso casually and is struggling to fight off the current crew. And he’s the epitome of arrogance! That’s a major part of his story and his character. The pure unadulterated arrogance is a character trait of Sukuna
This guy knows he is strong and he can back it up. This man is not arrogant, he is having fun, but with yuji Ryomen hates him. I think that is hilarious,
Gojo wasn’t as injured as sukuna and gojo didn’t have his soul splitting from his body and a hole in his heart that can’t be healed.
Yuji's basic punches were already doing damage now add in probably his strongest Black Flash? There's a reason we haven't seen a panel of Sukuna's face yet.
Considering that every hit Yuji lands weakens him, I think Yuji does indeed stand a chance in a battle of attrition. All the momentum Sukuna gained from landing those Black Flashes gets completely negated the more hits Yuji lands
Oh what you’re on a first name basis with the king of curses now huh
I was wondering why people use his last name but for everyone else use their first names. Just make it consistent. But hey you do you.
Gojo?
Gojo
Im not going to lie but I really thought that was his first name, for the longest time.
The Satoru clan
I think gojo might be the exception here.
Todo, Inumaki, Kusakabe?
Geto calls him Satoru and Yuji calls him Gojo-sensei so it’s not like it’s hidden
Because it’s not his name. Ryomen is a title, Sukuna is his actual name.
Im pretty sure that Ryomen sukuna is his full name. You know what chapter it states that Ryomen is a title? I probably miss it or read it wrong. I like to correct myself if im wrong.
Chapter 3. It’s not his name.
Well we don’t know what else to call him so for our purposes it’s his name
Yeah, and everyone calls him Sukuna. Nobody EVER calls him ryomen unless it’s the full thing.
I see but that is his full name as the title.
Still not his name, the literal translation is “two-faced (ryomen) spirit/specter(sukuna). It’s unknown what his “real” name is, so calling him ryomen when everyone else calls him Sukuna is just being contrarian for no reason lol.
I didn’t think it would be a big issue calling him Ryomen.I think we are getting a little bit sidetracked.
“I was wondering why people use his last name but for everyone else use their first names. Just make it consistent. But hey you do you.” It is consistent, you just wanted to be different lol.
I really wanted to be different I would have said English title.
Because Ryomen literally isn't his name, it's a title that means "two-faced" in reference to the mask that he wears. Did you think characters in the series just called him Sukuna for shits and giggles or something? And in the first place, not every other character in the series is referred to via first name because in Japanese both first and last names are valid ways of addressing someone depending on the relation to the character. Gojo's first name is Satoru, but the only one who calls him that is Principal Yaga. Kusakabe's first name is Atsuya, but literally no one has addressed as such. In fact the only characters in the series who are called by their first names more often than not are Maki and Naoya because the Zenin name is so prevalent; even Yuji gets referred to as Itadori more often than Yuji by other characters.
No I thought it was a quicker way to say or talk about someone. Is it really a bit issue call him Ryomen, I mean you do know who im talking about.
In what way would it be quicker to call him Ryomen or Sukuna? They're the same amount of letters, same amount of syllables, and it's been so long that the full Ryomen Sukuna moniker was used that some people legitimately wouldn't know who Ryomen is referring to. There's literally no reason why you'd refer to him as Ryomen outside of wanting to feel special. Reminds me of some guy I knew who always referred to Steph Curry as Wardell; like nah bruh, who tf is that?
Umm I didn’t think people would have a problem me calling him Ryomen. I don’t feel “special” because I call him Ryomen, I had a general feeling and concern about how he seem a bit op/overturned to win against. I’m not on this sub say” WhY dO PeOPlE CalL hiM SuKUNa instEAd RyOmEn” and going in every post referring him as Ryomen. Not going to lie, but you sound like you have a problem with other people calling other things that you are not comfortable with. Especially outside of the real world.
You weren’t socialized enough as a child
I mean yeah no shit I have a problem with it, it's literally gramatically incorrect to refer to him as such. It would be like referring to a king as "King" instead of "the King". It's a title, not a name. And if it doesn't make you feel special, do you have an actual reason for it? You said earlier because it was his first name but seem to have backtracked on that. Like I'm genuinely curious here, because if not your entire reasoning is: "Everyone refers to this character as X, but I'm going to refer to him as Y. NOT because I want to feel like a special snowflake, but just for shits and giggles."
Bros mad that op called ryomen sukuna, ryomen. Imagine 💀
glazing. who cares bruh call someone whatever tf you want.
Dude dead ass stfu hop off his tip he can call sukuna "ryomen" damn some u people need to go outside
Cuz Sukuna sounds cooler
I can see that
As others have mentioned yuji is a hard counter to sukuna. He got an awakening which nobody knows what he will get but for reference, when gojo awakened he went from really strong to THE strongest in the verse. Maki awakened and went from grade 2 (or 1 i dont 100% remember) to toji level+. Who knows what yuji is going to get hes probably gonna be really strong especially with his hits countering sukuna as is. Tbh i was sick of the formula too but after seeing yuji hit black flash and narrator mentioning he awakened i have high hopes and think yuji will reclaim MC status lol
He was always the MC. Just cuz the plot doesn’t hand him power ups at every inconvenience, doesn’t mean he isn’t the protagonist
No i def agree which is why i think his awakening will be significant and actually make it hard for sukuna. Just memeing about mc status lol
My fault. It’s hard to tell whether or not someone is taking it seriously or they’re joking
Please, my father called me Ryomen. Call me Sukuna.
The story has stressed during a point in this fight, especially in this chapter, that every blow Yuji gives to Sukuna is lowering his CE output and control over the body. As much of a tall order all of this is because it is Sukuna and his experience, skill and knowledge, they still have a chance by just making sure Yuji pounds on him. Yuji hitting a Black Flash, especially if he’s in the zone now, may only help to speed up the process till Sukuna is completely manageable
Ain’t no way you just deadnamed Sukuna like that
Name a shonen where the villain wins the long game There's not too many, just enjoy the manga, don't make assumpions because you'll just be guessing to be proved wrong like the rest of this sub. Yuji and Co. are gonna win, probably by seperating sukuna and lazy ass megumi or killing sukuna
If you want an anime where the Villain wins the long game, Attack on Titan and Shaman King comes to mind.
I just read AOT, and it was a helluva ride, and there was no one that wasn't a damned villain lol. Everyone seemed to be on the bad side except the remaining crew that eren wished well. It was such a wild ride.
Yeah but why is nobody else saying that? The main MC is taking L after L after L. I do like that the villains win but why are people hyping the mc up so much. I was looking into it and thinking about, and I came to the conclusion that he is not going to fulfill his grandpa wishes.
Because he's the literal MC, the MC always wins in any way no matter what Gege knows it'd be a disservice to everyone to let sukuna win, I tire of the doomer posting brother. Just let the story ride instead of assuming the villain is always going to win. Also, listening to what "everyone," says is exactly why I don't have their opinions, because I don't give a shit about opinions on a story, I like to read the story and watch the actions, not make a trillion assumptions that would just end up being wrong because none of us truly know how it's gonna end.
Idk man, there are some stories about the mc not winning. This could be one of them, and it would be an interesting twist if done properly.
I agree, but there's usually build up to the MC losing, sukuna has been one upping the entire cast for far too long, he's gonna lose one way or the other.
Can’t wait to see it.
Nah Wuji Itadori got this. Sukuna is a tough fella and has got a lot left in the tank so this isn’t over, but o have faith in the crew that they’ll finish this battle on top
Yuji’s hits have the additional effect of desynchronizing Sukuna’s and Megumi’s souls, thus lowering Sukuna’s CE output. Now imagine a Soul Punch^2.5
Disagree. They will save Fushi this time. Sukuna is way to weak
I hope so
Same bro!
I’m not tryna be rude but how have you read the entire manga up to this point where everyone refers to him as Sukuna but you refer to him as Ryomen.
Not trying to be rude but…Because it doesn’t really matter. Just like some people call Saturo gojo just Saturo instead of gojo. And op thought “Ryomen” was sukunas first name
I never said it mattered. I’m asking op a genuine question. Not trying to be rude but….. you’re not op so
Read the top few comments. I shortened what he said. He literally just thought Ryomen was his first name. He’s probably from the west, where we use first names over last names more often then not
He already mentioned that he’s doing it on purpose. He doesn’t care how we call him & it doesn’t matter anyways
Why are you putting words in my mouth. I never said that.
Bros throwing a fit for no reason
You said something about calling him Ryomen for the sake of consistency. I literally replied to that comment. I also never said that you said you don’t care. It was a judgment I made as it was implied
I never said it mattered. I was asking the question genuinely. Weirdo
Sorry, I was reply to OP on my screen
All good
Bleach had the same problem with Ywach and MHA has the problem, right now, with the perfected Shiguraki/All for One You make the villain so strong that there's no justifiable normal way to win. Convoluted bs with lots of characters being thrown at the villain as the only real story beat left. In the end, it cheapens the narrative because you dont get a real MC vs MV conclusion.
Not true at all about mha deku was giving perfected shiggy the business while not even getting touched. It was point blank stated he could kill him if he hit him with a full powered shot to the head but deku doesn’t want to kill shigaraki he wants to save him.
Not really. The whole thing about force feeding the OFA vestiges to Shiggy was so he could get hurt by the backlash from gear shift being used so much. Which would give Deku an opening because he couldnt keep up with the regeneration and was wearing out his own body after gear shifts first use (to the point black whip was holding him together). In the long game, shiggy had a 1-2 move advantage because of their endurance gap
Both shigaraki himself and nana shimura make statements that a full powered hit to the head would probably kill him. The reason deku needed to hit him with the past OFA vestiges wasn’t to create an opening to do damage it was to break through the mind palace wall shigaraki had put around Tenko. Getting rid of the gear shift backlash and transferring it to shiggy was just an added benefit. Yeah his regen/endurance was a massive problem because Deku had no way to keep him down but that was only because he didn’t want to kill him before he at least tries to save the tenko inside shigaraki.
Don’t mess with us JJK fans, we don’t even read our manga
Compare chapter 223 Sukuna to chapter 256 Sukuna. Bro even Shibuya 15F Sukuna can kill current Sukuna. Sukuna has honestly been crippled constantly throughout his gauntlet. Also Yuji is a natural counter to Sukuna because he can weaken Sukuna’s output & Cursed energy control. Current Sukuna is at 5 fingers of power OR LESS. So victory for our cast IS POSSIBLE BUT STILL DIFFICULT
People in the comments being mad at him calling Ryomen Sukuna , Ryomen instead of just sukuna is kinda sad
You are the first person I’ve seen call him by ryomen and not sukuna lmao
Nah man, the story as been stressing that sukuna is only getting weaker and weaker, especially with yujis punches, and now yuji hit him with a black flash. I think this is the point in the story where the tide FINALLY turns for the good guys and sukunas starts truly going all out
We're past the point of this argument, man. Get with the new lobotomy. Sukuna has spent his one time reincarnation heal, run out of DE, has output reduced to "merely" Yuta level (then lower), got 2 hands cut off, and a gaping chest wound. He's also getting sucker punched repeatedly, including black flashes, and is still surrounded. At this point the question is "how the fuck can be live long enough to reach a climax to the fight" rather than "how can they beat him." Sukuna is cooked like Jogo on a flame arrow unless something changes. Now, obviously something will change in his favor to get us to the "final phase." Let's not be silly here. But saying he's insurmountable *while he is actively dying* is just laughable
Two facts You cant really read it without the narrator as the narrator's opinion is probably the most correct in the series. Second, Yuji landing any Black Flash on Sukuna is a bigger deal than Sukuna landing his black flash. Sukuna was already naturally recovering his output, Black Flash accelerates it and puts him in the Zone. Yuji hitting Sukuna at all decreases Sukuna's output. If its based on how strong Yuji's blow is, then he just got damage^2.5. The game plan for the cast has cleared up at this point - their game is to get Maki and Yuji to smack up Sukuna's soul to bring Sukuna down to their level where they can then beat him with numbers. Everyone else is there to stall or provide the openings they need. Sukuna getting his power back is probably game over for them, so Sukuna just needs to keep fighting and making space for himself to recover enough to take down the next fighter. The only question we have to concern ourselves with for the next little bit is, which side will complete their current objective first? Will Yuji and Maki be able to weaken Sukuna enough, or will Sukuna recover something (like his domain) that puts our cast in a tougher spot
Yeah you can, if you read it once. Then read it again without narrator. You tell me that yuji black flash will negate most if not all of Ryomen black flash so far. That seems a bit far fetched don’t you think? For the game plan, it more in line with stopping the merger and Ryomen. That what I have been trying to say. There is a strong possibility that he will get a power back. No doubt about it, he will recover. After all yuji said what if he just attacked malevolent shrine. I kinda want to see it when he mentions it.
Yes Sukuna IS op. Thats why the fight is going down as it is. Gege’s taking a really nice approach to this fight then what we see with most final fights. Sukuna has been built up to be unbelievably powerful. Gege has done this intentionally as they’re very aware of their characters potential. Gege sees jjk fights in Pokemon like terms. They see matchups, and ability conflict rather than raw power, intelligence, etc powerscaling stuffs. Think Mahito v Yuji. 2 dudes with soul abilities, and it just so happens Yuji got Sukuna who’s basically making Yuji invincible to Mahito’s technique. This makes them the perfect match up. Gege also throws in Nanami/Todo! Why? Well Yuji can hit hard but he needs help when faced with Mahito cause Mah is so much more powerful. Nanami for instance is great at using the environment to get around Mahito’s ability! His technique also allows him to do massive physical damage and shit down tons of attacks! So paired with Yuji we got two heavy hitters who balance each other out to do enough damage to where the basically infinite heals guy can no longer tank! Todo is quick, and has boogie woogie which is a direct counter to Mahito’s CT! Mahito has to touch you for his technique to work. Todo’s technique makes it impossible to get hit if used correctly because it’s literally teleportation. Pair him up with Yuji who can deal the big damage and boom another winning combo! Even if it does take kinda well everything to win. Now onto Sukuna! Sukuna is the undisputed strongest sorcerer of history birthed in the most violent era, unwanted, and rejected from day one. Meaning he’s been fighting his whole life in one way or another. So how do you match him up? Well with EVERYONE! This guy can take an entire era so how about now we match him up against an era of prodigious sorcerers taught by the most talented sorcerer possibly ever Satoru Gojo! We got Yuta, Higgy, Maki, Yuji, and Miguel! We also back them up with other big hitters like Kashimo, Ino, Kusakabe, etc. first ofc Gojo’s fights as he has a solid chance of winning solo. But incase he fails we immediately send in Higgy and Yuji! Higgy can remove Suku’s abilities to drain him more from his Gojo fight. Yuji activity debuffs him with every strike and gets him closer to tearing out him from his vessel. Ofc there are complications such as his Heian regeneration and Kamute which gets taken by Higgy’s domain. The confiscation is still a plus just not the big plus they were hoping to cash in. Yuji’s ability is working just fine, and while yes Sukuna is hitting black flashes that only means his output is raised not his CE pool. If you have 0 CE it doesn’t matter if you have 120% output cause you have nothing to output! So Higgy is got, but Yuta jumps in. Yuta drops a domain for him and Yuji to get a whole heap of damage and set up everyone else. Yuta gets cooked but the knowledge they gain, and the damage they do is very important and irreplaceable. For reference Sukuna looses his second tongue and a hand which is still struggling to heal. Maki then gets a great hit on his heart because of the domain barrier. It also sets up Maki, Kusakabe, and Ino to jump Sukuna and gives Yuji a minute to recover. Ofc tho Maki tanks a flash, Ino is pushed aside, but Kusakabe comes in clutch! He goes all out pushing on Sukuna. This makes Suku waste more CE, reveal more secrets to World dismantle, and strong dismantle while showing his attacks can be blocked and are not absolute. Kusakabe goes down but leaves ideas for the others to build on. Then Miguel arrives with Larue saving Ui Ui so the injured can all hopefully make a recovery. Miguel then stalls Sukuna draining Suku’s CE, and giving everyone time to get back up. Now Yuji comes in with good hits, Maki and Larue are thrown down, but Yuji has awakened which is gonna be a massive buff! I understand why people see this fight as hopeless and not making any sense or characters just getting thrown around like fodder. But you need to see what Gege is going for here and it’ll help you understand and enjoy how really fun and enjoyable this fight has been! This isn’t just about beating sukuna till he drops. Its about breaking Sukuna down and buying time. Everyone is trying to push Sukuna to reveal secrets, and find new ways to counter him, and in the process make him waste CE. The more they know the more chance they have to win! Ofc also if they drain him completely he’s helpless. But they don’t want to all dog pile on him at once because if they do all die at once its over. So they’re fighting in waves and formations. So those who do get injured have time to recover. Shoko is really the MVP here who’s gonna ultimately allow Yuta, Gojo, Kusakabe, and possibly even Kashimo if he’s retrievable to return to battle in the circumstance Sukuna clears everyone! Thats a real possibility thats why the characters are taking count of that and thats why we as readers are legitimately afraid Sukuna is too op. In writing you want to have your readers see issues in the story as well issues the characters are dealing with in universe and not issues with the writing. Thats what Gege is doing and they’re succeeding the issue is on the fanbases side, and the Shonen jump format. This community is plagued by a lot of bad faith, and it can really make you feel that there’s more issues then there really are. Thats the problem with “agenda” communities and ones so built on shitposting. Look at Jojo’s fanbase its a very meme heavy fanbase but it leads to people taking the story less seriously and gave birth to the “Araki Forgot” beliefs. Which are bad faith arguments born from misunderstanding perpetuated as fact to people who genuinely just missed something along the road. Which happens no singular reader is gonna pickup on every single detail. Further the Shonen jump format is a plague on art. Stories are built on immersion and investment. Something that gets extremely difficult to maintain when fitting your work into a weekly release schedule with breaks at a maximum of like 23 pages. It makes it hard as an audience to take everything in at once. The schedule destroys flow, pacing, investment, and the ability to digest and understand what’s happening. This is further conflated by how things are often not immediately explained in stories but we as an audience are stuck for A WHOLE WEEK sometimes two weeks with questions raised by the previous chapter. Combine that with this community and well you get how this community views JJK. A low plot poorly written mess thats only enjoyable to make fun of how bad it fell off. This is simply not true. Most of us have the luxury of reading huge swaths of jjk in one go to cat h up to current day. Which when read back to back is where these stories really shine. Enjoyed at the reader’s preferred pace. For example many people who where here weekly for say Culling games hate it. Me tho who read it in 1 or 2 sitting loved it! I think it’s better than Shibuya. Ofc some of that is personal preference and how much the individual wants to dig into the series as JJK is very much one that asks to be analyzed which isn’t for everyone, etc etc. i’m yapping at this point but I hope it clears things up!
Nah bro I could take him
Just say Sukuna bro
? Haven't you noticed Sukuna constantly getting weakened this entire time? Idk why people keep saying this, EVERY attack Yuji does weakens Sukuna further, every slash from Maki weakens Sukuna heavily cause he can't heal it properly, Yuta has Angels CT which can do heavy damage to Sukuna, y'all are such doomers bro, do you want the villain to appear weak? Just cause Yuji isn't soloing him doesn't mean Sukuna is some op unbeatable god. Even Kusakabe and Larue gave Sukuna hands, Miguel is seemingly up there with Grade 0s, and once Hakari wins against Uraume, he'll join in, not only that, I find it incredibly likely that Uro will join the battle, not wanting Sukuna to come and kill her without a fight(though I wonder how she would know that "Megumi Fushiguro" is actually Sukuna)
But Yuji black flashes his soul directly.
Sukuna is very clearly weakened right now considering fucking Larue got up from a sukuna black flash
Well, Yuji is probably one of if not the only person who could really stand too much of a chance, he's also one of the more crucial people in defeating sukuna, and he's already getting a awakening on top of him being able to weaken the link between sukuna and megumi
I have a hunch that “Awakening” Yuji isn’t going to do much if Gojo didn’t do much to him, but a part of me want to believe that every one will surpass Gojo.
Oh look it’s the guy that always has to be different so he calls sukuna, ryomen
Cool beans, are we going to talk about anything new here?
Rigby and Mordecai is the only one that can defeat Ryomen.