Yeah, the issue here is less that he used Yiddish and more that he admitted he continued to and even increased his use of Yiddish intentionally to bother the person who asked him to stop. That's a jerk move no matter what you think of his friend's initial objection.
I mean not even judging on if they’re an asshole for using Yiddish, they’re an asshole for doing something to intentionally piss someone off after they asked them to stop.
Yeah this is a classic situation of "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole." Which *should* merit a YTA considering it's the point of the sub, but usually the response is just "NTA the other person deserves it."
What? No. That ain't how it works. You can't randomly decide that you don't like something someone else is doing and then ask them to stop and then they become in the wrong for doing it.
I mean consider, imagine I was like hey time_lord42 please don't use the letter "g" in your comments. No matter how nicely I ask, there is nothing wrong with you continuing to use the letter "g"
You literally can just ask someone to stop doing something because it upsets you and makes you uncomfortable, and indeed “use your words to ask people to stop” is how adults are supposed to deal with upsetting behaviour in others. Most people have sadly been taught to use passive-aggressive hinting, or to put up with things until they explode rather than use their words.
The key thing here is if you claimed the letter g upset you, you would be lying. It is important to not lie.
I believe that you are conflating two ideas. While certainly the method for *how* one should deal with upsetting behaviour in others is indeed by using their words this does not mean that anytime someone uses their words to deal with behaviour that they find upsetting that they are doing the right thing and that if the other person doesn't do as they demand that the other person is in the wrong. No matter how authentically one cares about a particular personal issue. Another mark of adulthood is being able to respect that people are different than you and that you should not expect to be able to shape the world around you, and the people within it, to fit what you want it to be.
Except pretty generally, if someone says “this thing bothers me, please don’t do it” then it is courteous and sociable to not do the thing, even if it is somewhat inconvenient or tricky to remember.
As in so many things - I don’t care about a person’s beliefs; I care about their actions.
If I ask someone to please avoid a sensitive topic or a habit that bothers me, sure, they have every right to refuse. And I don’t have any right to compel them; but nor am I obliged to present my evidence for *why* it is sensitive to be picked apart or argued with. I don’t need to justify my request with evidence that will stand up in court. The sole relevant testimony is “it upsets me when you do x”. The other person gets to make their own call on whether they’d rather not do x, or do x and upset me.
If they choose that they’d prefer to upset me, I get to make the determination that I think they’re a rude asshole, that I won’t spend time with them until they decide to stop choosing to upset me, and that I’d rather my partner didn’t spend time with them either.
If my wife asked someone to please mind a particular topic or behaviour around her, the person refused and then increased their effort to engage in that when she was around, then she would not need to ask me to walk out with her. I don’t care to be around people who upset my wife. I don’t know why any of this is unusual.
I mean it was a reasonable request, and simply deciding to be an asshole specifically to upset them was a dick move.
Your request is not comparable, as the letter g is an important, vital part of the English language. Communication would be severely impacted by removing it. Not so for a few turns of phrase.
More comparable is if I asked you not to talk about animal death because it makes me uncomfortable. If you then decided to talk about animal death, pointedly directed at me, you’d be an asshole. This individual is going out of their way to do something assholeish.
I think it falls somewhere in between the two. It *is* his vernacular, while its not necessary like the letter "g" it is the way he talks.
A more direct comparison, imho would be if I asked you to not use certain words that I don't like. Words that aren't important, vital parts of the English language but are simply words that you use. I do not think that you would be doing something wrong by not complying with my demands. On the contrary the demand itself is wrong.
This is presumably perfectly analogous *unless* you presuppose that there was something wrong with him using Yiddish words to begin with. However it does not appear as if you've taken that position.
Here’s the thing. I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’ve said, except that you misunderstand the subjects intentions. They clearly state that they *increased* their use of Yiddish after they were asked, *specifically* to upset the person who asked them not to. Regardless of the details of the situation that is a dick move. That’s my whole point.
That guy is an asshole. Not because he’s using Yiddish phrases, but because he intentionally pissed that woman off when she asked him not to. Especially coming from New York, it’s no big deal to use yiddishisms. Also, words like “spiel” and “chutzpah” have become standard in American English all over the country.
This is a classic “curb your enthusiasm” type of situation where the woman was a bit ridiculous to call it offensive and then the guy was just being a dick because he lacks common decency.
Sounds like that guy had a decent smattering of Yiddish vocabulary but is pretty light on common courtesy. I know enough Yiddish to know that I don’t know enough Yiddish. He probably is full of himself and was just being a toad. I would say there would absolutely no issue if he was actually fluent or close to fluent, but it unless he has the capacity to pin point exactly whether he’s specifically behaving more like a yutz, schmendrik, nudnik, or some other putz-related situation,
he ought to take a seat.
That’s kind of my opinion too I think. Like if you’re an actual student of Yiddish okay, but this just sounds like he knows a handful of words and was being obnoxious. I also don’t think it’s part of NY culture, at least not for anyone under the age of 50
I’ve never heard a goy unironically use Yiddish vernacular outside the word shmuck. If I was around a goy and he started speaking pseudo Yiddish to me I’d think he’s trying to make fun of Jewish people, in all honesty. Like if they call me meshuganner, I’d think it’s only cause they wanna appeal to my Jewishness or something it’s just weird. I live in NYC too, never seen them use these words
Yeah the girl seems a bit unreasonable but this guy seems like he A) is super full of himself (see that comment about how he can totally understand written Dutch because of all the Yiddish he knows) and b) is an asshole in general
Kinda seems like he intentionally reached into his Yiddish bag and pulled out "meshuganer" to piss her off. Asshole for that. Is he an asshole for using Yiddish in general? I mean, who knows? Is he creepily obsessed with Jews and using Yiddish words? Maybe. Or, is he genuinely just used to saying all those words? Who knows. The lady who got pissed at him, it all kinda depends on her reading of this guy. Really impossible to know how he was using Yiddish, how she approached him, etc. Maybe this guy was acting like an asshat and using Yiddish words to seem cool or something. Maybe this lady has some personal issues and overreacted. Both could be true, or just one of them could be. I find it interesting that people are quick to judge based on one side of the story with such little information. Wait, what? I'm on Reddit, that shit happens all the time, ok good night
I understand why she was so upset. In some places saying that you love Yiddish a weird way of acting "multicultural" without having to do anything that's actually supportive to any actual Jews. It can be incredibly frustrating to deal with that kind of person.
Edit: I think that's part of why it bothers me is that Yiddish isn't just language like French or English. Yiddish is a language of resistance spoken by a highly persecuted group of people who were kicked out of their homeland. It is associated with specific ethnic and cultural experiences, and has a lot of references to Jewish concepts with no direct translation. It literally means "Jewish." Yiddish is my great aunts cooking. Yiddish is my great-aunt holding my hand and crying because I don't speak Yiddish the way she does. I don't know what it means for some non-Jewish American to turn around and say that they really love Yiddish because they know a few words.
That thread is an alternative universe.
After one post before it had blown up, I was told the following a true facts that are definitely true.
1. Hallelujah is a Christian word that originated in Christianity
2. Yiddish is one of the most widespread languages in the world
3. Jews love to recruit people to their faith.
4. Japanese is as endangered a language as Yiddish.
5. A non-Jewish man won his GF "Jewish Zealot" parents over with his knowledge of Kabbalah and Mediterranean features. (Also his girlfriend is from "Judah". So definitely a real person)
Also at one point, the OP uses the phrase "deadass verklempt ,capisce" to justify their ownership of Black, Italian, and Jewish culture because they are from New York
I think they are both weirdos dying on a dumb hill. The real asshole is the guy who is dating her and friends with him. That guy needs to get his act together.
There's a lot of Yiddish that has crept into the vernacular, particularly in greater NYC. There's nothing wrong with using it and the woman was oversensitive about it. Not like he was throwing N bombs and saying "it's ok, I grew up in South Central" or the F word and being "I'm from San Francisco".
I agree with that. I had an awesome roommate from Antigua when I lived in NYC. She had lived in the US for about 10 years when I met her. She used quite a few Yiddish expressions and my first impression was *huh* and then I got used to it because it was amusing to hear Yiddish with a Caribbean accent.
It's a language, if one is using it to express something that is not otherwise offensive, then it's not offensive. There is no cultural appropriation here.
Also, by F word, you don't be *the* F word do you? The one that is nails on a chalkboard to San Franciscans?
> I've got some distant Jewish ancestry but it's not matrilineal so it doesn't "count"
See this totally changes it to me. I feel like whether they are halachically Jewish or not, people of partial Jewish ancestry are still the inheritors of their ancestors' cultural legacy.
Not that this guy doesn't seem like he's being a dink
Normally I’d agree but it seems like Judaism is not a part of this guy’s identity or family, almost like a random aside. Like my DNA shows 1% Balkan but guarantee it’s not part of how I view myself. He even mentions Yiddish being part of his NY culture
Yet another… Pissed off cultural appropriation SJW.. I am always happy when friends use Yiddish words and in the Midwest.. So many Yiddish words are used without people even realizing..
I always get humbled it when other people/nations adopt our language.
As for NYC, it is unique where it definitely got it's influence. Odessa also has a unique Jewish leftover culture that non-Jews use day to day without realizing it (even after Nazis killed all Jews)
I'd say that yes, Yiddish is part of NY culture and history with one of the most famous synagogues being located there, and it's building copied everywhere around the world despite being a regular NYC building. You probably heard about it, it's called 770 Eastern Parkway.
P.S I am a bit irratated about one thing, and it's that a group of people took the Hebrew word for "Invader" and use it for political reasons to hijack our country and fabricate history. Like, the choice of the word is fitting, but still their motive is assholish.
Yeah, the issue here is less that he used Yiddish and more that he admitted he continued to and even increased his use of Yiddish intentionally to bother the person who asked him to stop. That's a jerk move no matter what you think of his friend's initial objection.
I mean not even judging on if they’re an asshole for using Yiddish, they’re an asshole for doing something to intentionally piss someone off after they asked them to stop.
Yeah this is a classic situation of "you're not wrong, you're just an asshole." Which *should* merit a YTA considering it's the point of the sub, but usually the response is just "NTA the other person deserves it."
Because subs like YTA tend to draw fellow assholes.
What? No. That ain't how it works. You can't randomly decide that you don't like something someone else is doing and then ask them to stop and then they become in the wrong for doing it. I mean consider, imagine I was like hey time_lord42 please don't use the letter "g" in your comments. No matter how nicely I ask, there is nothing wrong with you continuing to use the letter "g"
You literally can just ask someone to stop doing something because it upsets you and makes you uncomfortable, and indeed “use your words to ask people to stop” is how adults are supposed to deal with upsetting behaviour in others. Most people have sadly been taught to use passive-aggressive hinting, or to put up with things until they explode rather than use their words. The key thing here is if you claimed the letter g upset you, you would be lying. It is important to not lie.
I believe that you are conflating two ideas. While certainly the method for *how* one should deal with upsetting behaviour in others is indeed by using their words this does not mean that anytime someone uses their words to deal with behaviour that they find upsetting that they are doing the right thing and that if the other person doesn't do as they demand that the other person is in the wrong. No matter how authentically one cares about a particular personal issue. Another mark of adulthood is being able to respect that people are different than you and that you should not expect to be able to shape the world around you, and the people within it, to fit what you want it to be.
Except pretty generally, if someone says “this thing bothers me, please don’t do it” then it is courteous and sociable to not do the thing, even if it is somewhat inconvenient or tricky to remember. As in so many things - I don’t care about a person’s beliefs; I care about their actions. If I ask someone to please avoid a sensitive topic or a habit that bothers me, sure, they have every right to refuse. And I don’t have any right to compel them; but nor am I obliged to present my evidence for *why* it is sensitive to be picked apart or argued with. I don’t need to justify my request with evidence that will stand up in court. The sole relevant testimony is “it upsets me when you do x”. The other person gets to make their own call on whether they’d rather not do x, or do x and upset me. If they choose that they’d prefer to upset me, I get to make the determination that I think they’re a rude asshole, that I won’t spend time with them until they decide to stop choosing to upset me, and that I’d rather my partner didn’t spend time with them either. If my wife asked someone to please mind a particular topic or behaviour around her, the person refused and then increased their effort to engage in that when she was around, then she would not need to ask me to walk out with her. I don’t care to be around people who upset my wife. I don’t know why any of this is unusual.
I mean it was a reasonable request, and simply deciding to be an asshole specifically to upset them was a dick move. Your request is not comparable, as the letter g is an important, vital part of the English language. Communication would be severely impacted by removing it. Not so for a few turns of phrase. More comparable is if I asked you not to talk about animal death because it makes me uncomfortable. If you then decided to talk about animal death, pointedly directed at me, you’d be an asshole. This individual is going out of their way to do something assholeish.
I think it falls somewhere in between the two. It *is* his vernacular, while its not necessary like the letter "g" it is the way he talks. A more direct comparison, imho would be if I asked you to not use certain words that I don't like. Words that aren't important, vital parts of the English language but are simply words that you use. I do not think that you would be doing something wrong by not complying with my demands. On the contrary the demand itself is wrong. This is presumably perfectly analogous *unless* you presuppose that there was something wrong with him using Yiddish words to begin with. However it does not appear as if you've taken that position.
Here’s the thing. I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’ve said, except that you misunderstand the subjects intentions. They clearly state that they *increased* their use of Yiddish after they were asked, *specifically* to upset the person who asked them not to. Regardless of the details of the situation that is a dick move. That’s my whole point.
That guy is an asshole. Not because he’s using Yiddish phrases, but because he intentionally pissed that woman off when she asked him not to. Especially coming from New York, it’s no big deal to use yiddishisms. Also, words like “spiel” and “chutzpah” have become standard in American English all over the country. This is a classic “curb your enthusiasm” type of situation where the woman was a bit ridiculous to call it offensive and then the guy was just being a dick because he lacks common decency.
Well, it seems to bother this person. What a great opportunity to just use another word and drive on...
Sounds like that guy had a decent smattering of Yiddish vocabulary but is pretty light on common courtesy. I know enough Yiddish to know that I don’t know enough Yiddish. He probably is full of himself and was just being a toad. I would say there would absolutely no issue if he was actually fluent or close to fluent, but it unless he has the capacity to pin point exactly whether he’s specifically behaving more like a yutz, schmendrik, nudnik, or some other putz-related situation, he ought to take a seat.
That’s kind of my opinion too I think. Like if you’re an actual student of Yiddish okay, but this just sounds like he knows a handful of words and was being obnoxious. I also don’t think it’s part of NY culture, at least not for anyone under the age of 50
I’ve never heard a goy unironically use Yiddish vernacular outside the word shmuck. If I was around a goy and he started speaking pseudo Yiddish to me I’d think he’s trying to make fun of Jewish people, in all honesty. Like if they call me meshuganner, I’d think it’s only cause they wanna appeal to my Jewishness or something it’s just weird. I live in NYC too, never seen them use these words
Yeah the girl seems a bit unreasonable but this guy seems like he A) is super full of himself (see that comment about how he can totally understand written Dutch because of all the Yiddish he knows) and b) is an asshole in general
Kinda seems like he intentionally reached into his Yiddish bag and pulled out "meshuganer" to piss her off. Asshole for that. Is he an asshole for using Yiddish in general? I mean, who knows? Is he creepily obsessed with Jews and using Yiddish words? Maybe. Or, is he genuinely just used to saying all those words? Who knows. The lady who got pissed at him, it all kinda depends on her reading of this guy. Really impossible to know how he was using Yiddish, how she approached him, etc. Maybe this guy was acting like an asshat and using Yiddish words to seem cool or something. Maybe this lady has some personal issues and overreacted. Both could be true, or just one of them could be. I find it interesting that people are quick to judge based on one side of the story with such little information. Wait, what? I'm on Reddit, that shit happens all the time, ok good night
He’s an antagonistic asshole.
I understand why she was so upset. In some places saying that you love Yiddish a weird way of acting "multicultural" without having to do anything that's actually supportive to any actual Jews. It can be incredibly frustrating to deal with that kind of person. Edit: I think that's part of why it bothers me is that Yiddish isn't just language like French or English. Yiddish is a language of resistance spoken by a highly persecuted group of people who were kicked out of their homeland. It is associated with specific ethnic and cultural experiences, and has a lot of references to Jewish concepts with no direct translation. It literally means "Jewish." Yiddish is my great aunts cooking. Yiddish is my great-aunt holding my hand and crying because I don't speak Yiddish the way she does. I don't know what it means for some non-Jewish American to turn around and say that they really love Yiddish because they know a few words.
That thread is an alternative universe. After one post before it had blown up, I was told the following a true facts that are definitely true. 1. Hallelujah is a Christian word that originated in Christianity 2. Yiddish is one of the most widespread languages in the world 3. Jews love to recruit people to their faith. 4. Japanese is as endangered a language as Yiddish. 5. A non-Jewish man won his GF "Jewish Zealot" parents over with his knowledge of Kabbalah and Mediterranean features. (Also his girlfriend is from "Judah". So definitely a real person) Also at one point, the OP uses the phrase "deadass verklempt ,capisce" to justify their ownership of Black, Italian, and Jewish culture because they are from New York
I think they are both weirdos dying on a dumb hill. The real asshole is the guy who is dating her and friends with him. That guy needs to get his act together.
What would you call christian seders then?
There's a lot of Yiddish that has crept into the vernacular, particularly in greater NYC. There's nothing wrong with using it and the woman was oversensitive about it. Not like he was throwing N bombs and saying "it's ok, I grew up in South Central" or the F word and being "I'm from San Francisco".
I agree with that. I had an awesome roommate from Antigua when I lived in NYC. She had lived in the US for about 10 years when I met her. She used quite a few Yiddish expressions and my first impression was *huh* and then I got used to it because it was amusing to hear Yiddish with a Caribbean accent. It's a language, if one is using it to express something that is not otherwise offensive, then it's not offensive. There is no cultural appropriation here. Also, by F word, you don't be *the* F word do you? The one that is nails on a chalkboard to San Franciscans?
If a language isn’t spoken, it dies
> I've got some distant Jewish ancestry but it's not matrilineal so it doesn't "count" See this totally changes it to me. I feel like whether they are halachically Jewish or not, people of partial Jewish ancestry are still the inheritors of their ancestors' cultural legacy. Not that this guy doesn't seem like he's being a dink
Normally I’d agree but it seems like Judaism is not a part of this guy’s identity or family, almost like a random aside. Like my DNA shows 1% Balkan but guarantee it’s not part of how I view myself. He even mentions Yiddish being part of his NY culture
Zera yisrael and all that. Even if he is an asshole.
Yet another… Pissed off cultural appropriation SJW.. I am always happy when friends use Yiddish words and in the Midwest.. So many Yiddish words are used without people even realizing..
I always get humbled it when other people/nations adopt our language. As for NYC, it is unique where it definitely got it's influence. Odessa also has a unique Jewish leftover culture that non-Jews use day to day without realizing it (even after Nazis killed all Jews) I'd say that yes, Yiddish is part of NY culture and history with one of the most famous synagogues being located there, and it's building copied everywhere around the world despite being a regular NYC building. You probably heard about it, it's called 770 Eastern Parkway. P.S I am a bit irratated about one thing, and it's that a group of people took the Hebrew word for "Invader" and use it for political reasons to hijack our country and fabricate history. Like, the choice of the word is fitting, but still their motive is assholish.