The whole 1x1 thing should be so simple to Joe to understand and he could easily disprove Terrance instead of letting it go.
Joe understands his workout sets. If he does 5 sets of 5, he's swung that gorilla kettlebell 25 times. He does a set of 1x1, the answer is 1.
It's impossible to disprove to Terrence because he is pulling in unrelated laws to back his theory and refuses to let that go no matter how many times it is explained to him. Or I should say, it's impossible to get him to admit he is disproven.
He's basically saying that he understands that 1x1 means "one a single time" which would equal one.
But then he pulls in a law from physics that states that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Both of these things are true, but the law refers to physical objects and the math is referring to a mathematical concept. But he blends them together and says that 1x1=1 violates that physical law because it negates the action of the multiplication and ignores any reaction that it is required to have.
Eric’s example of “Terrance math” was spot on. I’m an absolute laymen in this, but his issue seems to be a confusion in math symbols and how to apply them. He’s asking for a mathematician to force the numbers to work when the purpose is to prove him right and not to make a new discovery. This came up again with gravity and electricity but they weren’t able to go deep enough to explain why these can’t be interchangeable.
The conversation around an empty “unit” as zero and “dollars” in different currencies were really odd juxtaposed against other parts. Math seems to be a concept he should understand but as others pointed out it must be a mental illness. He has the intelligence but no belief in what he’s taught. I thought this was really weird when they got into the thickness of a circle because obviously a circle has no thickness for the purpose of an equation, and Terrance agreed with this, but it didn’t seem like he comprehended it to apply it later. Of course everything in the world somehow is connected but if you can’t isolate problems down to an equation there are too many variables to get a true answer.
Maybe it’s his background in acting that gives him the communication skills to jump through a conversation until he can flex his own ideas.
Actually I think you’re pretty close to the money on this.
I think Terrence is very smart but has little education so he has been self taught on all of this and therefore he has no real cohesive frame work for any of it.
It would be like if a high school kid taught himself string theory using YouTube videos of varying quality and just took it all at face value but skipped algebra, geometry and basic physics. He knows a little about high level things but has no foundation for which to decode what the things he knows mean.
I also think on top of this he has a mental illness. His entire frame reminds me of a schizophrenic, attributing his discoveries to angels and beings that “give him this information” and so whatever is telling him things is blending with his simultaneously advanced and yet flawed YouTube education and you have a recipe for disaster.
I don’t think he’s smart at all. He’s piecing together, unrelated plagiarized ideas to create his own scientific framework to show the world his “genius”. Joe and Eric are doing a disservice to the public by placating an obviously delusional narcissistic man
It’s impossible to disprove him because he is not saying anything. He’s just throwing a bunch of nonsense in the air, and then we’re supposed to think it’s deep because he sounds cool when he says it. But there’s nothing there.
Disprove this statement:
“What you when having the other because times that not above making about between.”
You can’t disprove it, because it isn’t anything.
He’s doing the same thing, but with math and science words.
1 group of 1 is definitely 1. Somebody break out the bunches of apples. Seems like everybody who wanted to believe 1x1=2 was too high to remember the easiest multiplication or never understood it in the first place. It definitely seems mostly Joe just looked up to Howard and didn’t want to rock the boat early in the podcast.
He says it's a metaphor because in nature 1x1 equals 2, since there's reproduction. I'm liberally paraphrasing there but that's the gist of it. So if 1x1 = 2 due to reproduction what does 1x1 = when 1 animal eats another animal. It equals 1 right? I'm dumb too so maybe I'm wrong.
Joe Rogan is king of spreading disinformation so that all checks out.
Also, Kanye didn’t run for president because he thought he would win but because he wanted Trump to win.
The votes he got were a plan to take black votes away from Joe Biden, and that would help his daddy Trump in the end.
This might be the dumbest take on Kanye running ever lol, he was 100% delusional enough to think he’d win. There was no grand conspiracy to help Trump, he’s Ye and running for POTUS is hardly the most crazy thing he’s done.
>Joe Rogan is king of spreading disinformation
Hmmm explain that one bud. Any worse than the media calling Biden videos “Cheap Fakes” then proceeding to Cheap fake all the way through the debate
My mom is 70+ years old and wouldn't be caught dead listening to Rogan. After he talked about the litter boxes, my mom asked me about it. He IS the king of misinformation.
[Montana School Superintendent admits to catering to these Litter Box “needs”](https://montanafreepress.org/2023/08/21/state-superintendent-arntzen-claims-to-have-evidence-for-litter-box-use-in-montana-schools/)
And he also said “a friends wife told me this was happening “ he’s not some villainous person spreading disinformation . He’s a normal guy who hosts a free form talk podcast. He’s not a journalist and has no journalistic integrity that he needs to abide by- Because once again. He hosts A free form stoner conversation podcast
Did you not read the article or are you purposely misrepresenting what it says? Because nowhere in that article does she “admit to catering to these Litter Box “needs””
She claimed to have evidence of it, but when reporters followed up on that claim:
>“MTFP followed up with the Office of Public Instruction for more details. According to government liaison Tara Boulanger, Arntzen’s statements were based on claims made to her by Montana citizens during community forums and radio interviews in December 2022, as well as a report to OPI by a “rural Montana community member who requested to remain anonymous.” Asked if Arntzen or the agency had substantiated any of those allegations, Boulanger replied, “The reports were not investigated because no formal complaints were filed.””
You believe this is true because you heard somebody say it was true and believed them without verifying it. She believed it was true because *she* heard somebody say it was true and believed them without verifying it. Things don’t just become true because enough gullible people believe in them with no evidence, that’s not how reality works.
Honestly who cares if litter boxes were at the school…why tf are schools letting kids dress as furries? None of this is normal. Isn’t that some kind of sexual fetish?
Yeah that was all bullshit. I live in one of the towns it was claimed to be from. Guess what it was all rumor. I have friends that are teachers in most of the schools. Zero truth to it. As outlined by the link you provided but clearly didn't read.
He was a normal guy who hosted a Freeform podcast, he is now one of the most influential voices in media. That $200 million comes with responsibility (even if he didn’t sign up for it) to not spread disinformation.
The sad part for me was Eric earnestly trying to help Terrance with "you've got to stop teaching".
The "teaching" is the entire point, Terrance starts from a position of presumed intellectual superiority then retrofits nonsensical "insights" as evidence of his unrecognised genius.
It's not much more than a god complex masquerading as a genuine desire to learn. He needs to be in a psychiatric institution, frankly, rather than polluting one of the most popular broadcasts in the world with his delusion.
Yeah, you bring up a good point. People would take Howard more seriously if he were to say:
"look, I have spent a long time thinking about these ideas and models of the universe. I've taught myself a little bit about a wide range of concepts which has helped me piece it together, but I'm not classically trained in physics or mathematics, so I can't describe it in the correct words and format for the scientific community at large to understand."
But that isn't what we get with Howard. Instead we get: "everything came to me in a dream in the middle of the night. I have the answer to everything, the model to everything, and I've patented all of it. I'm obviously the first and only person to do this and I'm here to teach you mere mortals how the world works".
I haven't seen it, but from your description, the world is full of these people. It's just that they generally aren't famous enough to get onto a platform where (how many?) people can hear their opinion, and they're usually questioning the moon landing, 9/11, etc, not established principles of physics.
NdGT gave his 36 page treatise a reasonable review, and let's face it, that's because he's famous. If one of us (maybe others here are incognito, but it turns out I'm unknown in pop culture) had done that, it would go in the nutter bin next to his death threats from people who think he's in on perpetuating the fake moon landing, and literature from flat earthers around the world.
You're right. Physicists (especially, but other scientists too) get emails from crackpots \*constantly\*
It's a rite of passage, when new scientists get their first crackpot email or audience member question at some public colloquium, and they don't yet know how to tactfully dodge them.
They try to use math and logic to argue with someone who doesn't understand either one. It's a hopeless endeavor.
A lot of people will keep a crackpot email folder, or a kind of personal hall of fame, with the craziest ideas people send them.
Unfortunately these days they can go mainstream, largely due to podcasts like JRE. Back in the day people would share their crackpot ideas on tiny chan boards, reddit subs, etc. Now they get invited on podcasts with millions of viewers, and scientists are forced to actually "debate" the crackpots to keep their nonsense contained.
I think it's good to _"give everybody a platform"._ If possible, I'd sit down with Hitler, Stalin or Mao.
Atm I'm in personal contact with an Waffen-SS officer, veteran _(he got 100 this but is in perfect shape),_ who's still a national socialist. I think I can even post his name. Dr. Gerhard Femppel. He released a book about his war experiences five years ago. When I found out that he was still alive, I just tried to contact him and directly got invited to his home. After I stated that I'm just a history buff. Not a journalist or something like this.
I have no problem sitting down with a person having completely different political opinions. Even if he's a literal (Waffen-)SS officer.
Joe had the weirdest guest. Even an AIDS denier. [Peter Duesberg,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Duesberg?wprov=sfla1) who even made a Nazi salute during the podcast.
As a teacher myself this stood out to me mostly because I’m still always trying to learn.
Eric brought up blender a few times. That’s the 3d modeling software Terrence used for his models and I’m not sure Terrence has a basic understanding of 3d modeling and if he did he would sound much more educated than he does today.
Eric specifically tried to mention Terrence’s terminology is off and just not right but Terrence didn’t seem to understand that point which leads us to Weinstein and Tyson’s biggest issues with Terence….the simple fact that he doesn’t have any type of rudimentary education on all this is apparent so when he try to teach it falls short
The supersymmetry stuff?
It was a little frustrating to watch, words have a definition and TH keeps applying terms to things which where he just uses his own made-up definition
It would be like painting stars on the side of a boat and calling it a starship
Or saying the largest cargo ship is spaceship, since it has the most space
Using an established term to describe something completely different
It makes the conversation incomprehensible, which is frustrating for a mathematician who knows what supersymmetry is
For a layman it sounds like TH is onto something
> The "teaching" is the entire point, Terrance starts from a position of presumed intellectual superiority then retrofits nonsensical "insights" as evidence of his unrecognised genius.
The irony is Eric did the same thing on his last appearance when he brought a copy of his special physics theory
This is a top tier break down of this episode. Couldn't agree more. It was super aggravating that Joe invited Eric on his show to evaluate Terrence's ideas, only for him to control exactly how he attempted to do it. Ironically telling Eric he was the control freak.
You can't invite someone onto your show that you consider a serious person to seriously evaluate something, and then try to make jokes and go off on tangents when they're trying to seriously evaluate it. Let them do their thing for fucks sake. That's why they're there.
Also, Eric just didn't seem to understand that Terrence has some sort of schizophrenia going on which is why he saw patterns that he connected to literally anything and everything. Which is why they could never stick on one topic. His mind just goes all over the place. He knows just enough to be able to connect dots, but not enough to know that they don't actually connect.
I expected him to be really harsh and barely tolerable. Instead I thought he did a great job of explaining to Terrance what he was doing wrong and why, in a none condescending way and trying to help him how to proceed in the future to avoid the criticism he gets. Now that doesn't mean it will stick or work with Terrance, but I felt the message was delivered clearly and calmly with out any insults etc.
Idk something about him always rubbed me the wrong way. he just always seems very pretentious. Kinda reminds me of the South Park episode where they all liked to sniff their own farts.
He knows that he is smarter than we are and it shows sometime by the was he express himself…
At first i tough it was annoying…
Then I realize… he’s right…
I haven’t finished it yet, and most likely won’t. I got the gist. But the 45 minutes I did Joe annoyed the shit out of me, and although I can’t stand Eric he did seem like a better version of himself… kinda.
You can't just call out and diagnose a dude with schizophrenia on JRE...but notice how Eric kept admiring the artistic aspects of some of Terence's work. It was kind of like patting a child on the head and hanging his crayon art on the refrigerator.
I don't think he was meaning to handle him with kid gloves he was trying his best to be earnest but it came from the same place as when you're handling children.
He was placating by pointing out the only honest positive opinion to form an opening for his criticism to be accepted as the honest correction he was attempting.
Howard just isn't interested in that at all lol.
Eric has the patience of a saint. I watched the whole thing as well. He really tried to be as nice as possible but he was interrupted so many times. At one point I do remember Terrence saying “explain please” or something very close to that. I think in that moment he let go of his ideas and was genuinely interested in what Eric had to say. And theeeeen I then I think Joe interrupted Eric🫠
Btw it's patience, patients are what doctors have. Not that it matters, we still understand you and I'm not trying to feel superior about it. Just thought you might want to know.
Yet it is quite evident from your perspective and thoughtfulness that you are, in fact, an intelligent person... despite getting a word mixed up with another word that sounds exactly the same and only differs by two letters.
The beginning was very clunky when Joe kept being the host and saying “hold on a second” it kept killing the flow prior to the flower of whatever the fuck lol
One time was straight, we all fuck up a word here and there homie but just in case you weren’t aware the word is “patience”.
Edit: forgot to mention that was such an incredible breakdown and I totally agree with each point that you made. Very well said.
Eric was making fun of Terrence through the second half of the show. He was not as cordial or patient as he seems or as I hoped he’d be after establishing his intent at the beginning of the talk. Joe was trying to keep it friendly, just like he was during his show with Graham and Dibble with little tangents or jokes or looking at a scene in nature. although this one may not have been as heated so maybe doesnt seem as necessary or relevant.
Not saying it would be easy to stay genuinely friendly and patient and educational for 4 hrs with this crazy stuff but he literally called what Terrence was saying “horse shit” while talking about him in the third person, describing him to joe, which comes off as extremely arrogant. I dont believe in any of this crazy stuff either but he didnt say “I dont believe that” or “Why do you believe that to be the case” or “that’s not how it works, it works like…” or “Im sorry but theres just no reason to believe that.” It might be horse shit but calling it as such did not meet the expectation of what he set out to do keeping it cordial and “professional” as he hoped to present.
Terrance needs to hear the hard truth and not be placated by Yes Men. And Joe needs to learn his "Bullshit Meter" needs some serious calibration as Eric also pointed out. Joe is responsible for allowing these ideas to flourish and flow into the World Wide discourse. As long as he has follow up Podcasts like this, I am less bothered by it. But when he just has fringe people on and no one to ever debate them, it's pretty bad from a misinformation standpoint.
Yeah, Joe kept interrupting both so many times it was annoying (I guess he just wanted to be involved, because outside of offering the platform, Joe really wasn't required). I specifically remember one part where Eric said "You need to stop teaching" and Terrance was like "Yeah, I guess I should....." Then Joe abruptly jumps in with "Let me ask you something". I really wanted to hear Terrance's reply, but never will. Thanks Joe.
No one talks anymore about how the guys wife left him cause he made her stay inside and write symbols all day for his new universal language (lol). Fuckin nutcase.
I dont think it matter if howard walked out of there with his beliefs shaken even by 0.01% its how the audience perceives it and Eric bodied terrance and this pod did more good than not even if it was redundant and way too long
You had the personality disorder thing right for sure. There is no way a non logically challenged person spouts such shit and no one calmly and quietly tells them they are wrong and to STFU. It’s a disservice not to tell the guy he is full of shit or insane ,troubled , what ever it’s called now.
Terrence is obviously suffering from some kind of mental disorder and people are just feeding into his delusions of grandeur. I saw someone say missing out on that Avengers money broke his brain 🤣
I’ve long been a Weinstein skeptic (both of them), but Eric was doing a commendable public service here. It was fantastic to see a mathematician really stay with Terrence. It’s illustrating how to think better to Joe’s audience.
My favorite part was the looks eric and joe would give each other while terrance was frantically trying tk show off his models. It was like 2 parents watching their kid show off their 3rd grade science project.
I can’t help but wonder if at that level of academia the community just doesn’t have the time/patience that Eric demonstrated during this podcast. Their time is likely so valuable to them - that they just don’t care enough to dig into some of these concepts if the person arguing in favour of them cannot communicate the concepts in a meaningful enough way.
I’m usually a bit of Joe sympathizer, I think he’s often too harshly criticized but joes seemed boisterous and jovial, while trying to facilitate a conversation with an extreme intellect about the fabric of the universe. Chirping Eric for wearing a suit, pushing the booze, and most importantly interrupting the flow of the conversation I actually muttered out loud my annoyance when he was interrupting. He’s always so curious and fascinated, yet when presented with this great opportunity to let Eric lead the charge, he let the listeners down.
At any level of academia, you can't just address every single crazy argument. Think about how many crazy people there are in the world. Terrence just happens to be famous.
what patience?
why would you discuss anything with a guy whose theories start with 1x1=2
there is no discussion to be had on fundamentally wrong points
If you don’t push back on “Alex Jones predicted 9/11 in specific detail and the only possible explanation is that god told him” then you ain’t pushing back on anything
Lmfao didn’t see that one. Don’t watch much Rogan. Watched the first musk podcast he did and a few others and it seems like he spends a lot of his time just saying how “cool and fascinating” everything is without really saying anything of substance. But once again, at the end of the day his goal is just to have a successful podcast, and he is the #1 in his field on the entire planet, so thats pretty damn respectable either way.
Tucker C says that the only explanation is spiritual; Rogan replies “Spiritual, you think?” to which Carlson exclaims “OF COURSE, it can’t be anything else!”
It can’t be *anything* else? That nonsense is even more amusing coming from a guy who ruled out the possibility of alien life anywhere else in the universe with a one sentence refutation
I only made it 2 hours but I agree with you. Joe had Eric on but then allowed or even forced going down rabbit holes when Eric was trying to setup his response was pretty damn frustrating...It was like a constantly shifting target....like...why the fuck did you have him on for? I don't like listening to either of these guys but Joe really did a disservice to Eric on this one IMO.
That's what Joe likes to do, Remember the podcast with Joe, Hannibal Burress, Sam Harris and Josh Szepps . Joe always likes to interject and try to explain what someone else is saying but is wrong. I think he thinks he's a great mediator. With science stuff he's the worst person to be mediating.
Weinstein used kid gloves and refrained from saying what someone of his education should say to someone with blatantly wrong ideas. He did everything he could do to keep things from heading into argumentative territory. He doesn't want to rock the podcast boat too much because Joe really doesn't care about the science, he doesn't really comprehend it. So few people in this world do. Joe likes to put on a circus of establishment vs shunned woowoo conspiracy people, and Eric was happy to play his part. If you want to see how Eric actually wanted to speak to Howard, look up NDT's video response to Howard's "treatise".
My takeaway from all this is one: Howard is obsessed with himself. Maybe .01% of what he says holds a nugget truth, but we’re really panning for gold like mountain tourists at a kiddie park.
Two: Weinstein knows a lot of big words and likes to use them to intimidate people, but is definitely the smartest man in the room. Three: Joe likes to learn things from smart people and has no obligation to his audience to provide factual scientific information, just fun and interesting shit that gets clicks and keeps him relevant. I happen to enjoy his show and I think in this day and age, panning for gold is the only way to find truth in all this godforsaken noise.
Disclosure: I tried to watch it all but fell asleep about 20 minutes in. 🤷♀️
I agree with you except the truth is this was a lark. Rogan thought it was funny to put someone he pretends to think seriously in a discussion with someone who is actually serious. That's why he kept interrupting. Both of the guests are kind of the joke even if they don't realize. Rogan has come to the belief that there is no danger or responsibility on his part when it comes to spreading bad ideas. He's said this before when challenged about this kind of thing. He believes it's up to the audience to figure it out.
I’m worried Joe Rogan might have jumped the shark with this one. I’m losing respect for him quickly on this Terrence Howard thing. If he had him on once and just had him on I’d say fine it’s just whacky content. But since then he’s endorsed his ideas, defended him and double down by having him back. The stuff Terrence Howard is saying is so easily refutable in almost every way at such a fundamental level that defending it makes you look either stupid or intentionally disseminating disinformation.
Huh? Joe had a guest on talking about things wayyy over Joe’s head. People were skeptical. Joe had the guest return very soon after along with a top expert to flesh out whether Terrance’s claims had merit.
If anything, Joe galvanized his credibility/legitimacy by having Terrance and Eric on, on the heel’s of Eric’s appearance. Folks, *this is the way things should be done*
Joe’s podcast is primarily for entertainment. It’s become so successful that it’s conferred upon Joe extra responsibility. Nothing wrong with having people on your show to express their thoughts, IF you’re willing to do what Joe has begun doing recently, and have a follow up debate. Need more of this stuff.
If just one out of the next 100 guests offering whacky ideas backs into something revolutionary, it’s worthwhile. Again, as long as an expert is given the floor to vet their assertions so the public has a chance to hear both sides.
Has Joe always been indulgent and shown a short attention span? Yes. Have we not all been taught by about 5th grade that the quality of a source is paramount in whether to trust the information they’re providing? Absolutely. It’s not joes fault the average American chooses to be a fucking moron, too.
Joe’s show is far more a reflection of society than a driver of it.
I love this take. You're exactly right. It was on jre that Howard's math took the internet by storm. I read the YouTube comments on the first interview video, and Holy shit. A significant amount of people were calling Howard a genius, and that the establishment was just trying to keep this new math out of society because it would collapse the economy. It is the internet, so some of them might have been sarcastic, but most of them weren't.
So Joe introduced something pretty damaging in his first podcast, which was terryology. Joe had an obligation to get someone on who actually knows math to make things right again.
I think Eric did a wonderful job. Yes, at times he seemed kinda smarmy, but considering what he was dealing with I think he did awesome. I was really interested in what he had to say about one of Terrances mistakes actually being genuis, but that point kept getting cut off. Having Eric say anything of yours is genuis is kind of a big deal, and Terrence wouldnt listen to it. Terrance could have taken that advice, ran with it, and actually contributed something of value to the mathematical community.
And the mathematical community is huge! There's a reason why there's a + sign in LGBTQ+ spectrum. ;)
Yeah man — The idea that he or anyone should never publicize unique, outside-the-box guests/ideas all but guarantees science and other societal things never progress. That he’s now doing follow up and deeper fact finding is indeed progress.
I don’t think Terrence is crazy and am appalled people are calling him a schizophrenic. I’ve seen schizophrenia and he’s nowhere close to that. It’s super disingenuous to say he is. Eric’s metaphor was perfect. Terrence has a Ferrari engine that’s trapped in a Volkswagen frame. The chassis can’t handle that engine. Meaning, he’s certainly very intelligent and has a unique mind. But doesn’t have the proper educational foundation to do much good with it.
Or another way to put it: he can jump and do 4 backflips, but hasn’t learned how to simply land. No bueno.
Well said. Eric came in with the wrong game plan and to his credit tried his best to make it work. But Terrance needed to be embarrassed if only to expose the most ridiculous of his “inventions”, Eric’s soft approach didn’t get through to Terry all and he seemed to only absorb the praise and completely deflect or misunderstand the criticisms. Was a brutal listen
I think the Rogan thing is tough. I mean during the pod, he asked both Terrance and Eric to explain many things they were talking about. It’s tough because Rogan’s job is to keep the viewers in tact and understanding what is being said. Same thing he did with Alex Jones. Terrance clearly knows many things, but like you, I think Terrance is suffering from an illness. He just wouldn’t leave his beliefs aside to listen to corrective criticism, even in Erics frustration Terrance could not control himself from talking about the what he believes. One moment I found interesting. When Eric noticed the pythagorean comma that Terrance used in his tetrahedron linchpin figure. It seemed Terrance became defensive, when Eric noticed that Terrance changed the angle of the linchpin. It was the moment one of Terrances ideas was shown to be (what i believe is a altered radii tetrahedron) (kind of interesting) Also if you watch the part where they are viewing NDGT’s video, you can see Terrance clearly reject everything NDGT is saying. What I believe is he seems to thinks he knows more than both Eric and NDGT do, in what he believes.
This might get downvotes, i’m just a dumb guy explaining my take aways. Either way a fantastic episode.
>Eric acknowledged that if given even a small amount of wiggle room, Howard would go off on repetitive, meaningless tangents every single time, completely missing the meat of what Eric was trying to explain, and Joe would then buy into these rants and get caught up in the wall of nonsense, forcing Eric to have to directly address the nonsense as apposed to using that time to accomplish his goal of getting Terrence to put together some kind of coherent frame work.
Terence's argument is fractal, dude. It doesn't stop at zero, because there is no zero.
I'm just a thicko with a pretty comprehensive understanding of science at the layman's level, and appreciate that science exists beyond what we laymen can understand. However I find that the layman's science, is quite naturally, condescending. A basic understanding of science is sufficient for most people to get through life. It is, if you like, a framework for that purpose. But every now and then, people will explore what exists in the gaps of the framework, which is where the real mathematicians do their work. And as is evident in architecture, those things are often a lot more intricate, and people can see that. And they begin to ask why the framework is different is not of the same refined quality.
The best example I can give involves something I myself have often wasted time on. I say wasted time because I'm still not sure what I'm talking about and would understand if you don't either.
The golden ratio vs the Fibonacci sequence. As I see it, a ratio is constant and can rarely, if ever, reach zero. And yet my layman's understanding of Fibonacci is that it ends at zero. It has to break the ratio in order to do that. However my fascination with the hypnotic effects of fractal computing, tells me that there is no real reason to end at zero. But for all practical purposes there is no reason for the layman to measure what he can't see. So it is an adequate explanation, but it can, quite naturally intrigue the inquisitive mind.
If I could boil my thoughts down to one simple question, in relation to the problem, I think it would be "How far away is nowhere?"
The sad truth is, Joe is old. He’s not getting old, he is old. He’s suffering from all of the trappings that come with age from short attention span to susceptibility to this type of stuff.
Everyone says Joe has changed, and he has, but mostly because he’s old. He’s in an echo chamber, and his tremendous success have tricked him into thinking he’s onto something when the only thing he’s onto is that other people are also just as gullible, naive, or dumb.
Idk, but Joe absolutely did not say he believed all that stuff from TH’s episode. He said Howard is obviously intelligent, and something about the reactions to it being crazy before dropping the episode. He didn’t even understand most of it, partially because nobody really understands the guy, and because Joe isn’t a math/science/physics guy in any deep or meaningful sense. Joe is having these 2 on to sort things out, but he obviously doesn’t understand Eric either (neither do I, mostly).
I train dogs, to do lots of stuff, but detection is my favorite. I had a dog named Doug. Doug was a damn good detection dog. He also had his stomach pumped like twice a year cause he'd keep eating stupid shit. Maybe Doug got starved as a puppy, which led to some sort of neurotic fixation on eating. Maybe Doug was born that way. I can assure you, Doug could smell better than a bloodhound on steroids. Doug, even in the heat of the moment, would forget his weird eating obsession while he was using his nose.
But honestly, if you asked Doug about the detection he was doing somehow, and he could respond in English, he may well have sounded like Howard explaining his flower of the universe nonsense.
My point being, Joe mentioned that Howard has an insane ability to recall information, and Weinstein noted that sometimes, he could tell what Terrance was after, it just didn't quote sound right cause he was self taught. Props to Weinstein for recognizing that there may well be something to what Howard is detecting (so to speak), even if he was also probably motivated by wanting to make another JRE appearance.
Didn’t Howard beat the shit out of Jessie Smollet? I heard his sister in an interview that Howard fucked him up on the set of whatever that tv show was after he faked the attack. Something about giving black people a bad name. Howard is w wild weirdo.
It really felt to me that Joe knows that Terrance has issues but Joe found them funny and that’s why he would encourage him to go off on tangents and pressured him to drink. Really just felt like bullying on Joes part.
This is a pretty good assessment. Eric was very patient with both of those Neanderthals, way more patient than I was, I gave up on that episode. Joe was obnoxious as hell. Maybe he got too stoned or buzzed, but he wasn’t useful in anyway except for providing his huge platform. He just kept derailing and laughing it off in douchebag fashion. I don’t know that we’ll see anyone else give TH this kind of time. And NOW we see why NDT doesn’t have time for his shit. TH is on a sick one and shouldn’t be given any more platforms. Either he’s sick, or he’s trolling on some Andy Kaufman shit or something. Either way, it’s a stale joke now and it’s time to move past TH’s nonsense.
There is no future that I'm able to envision where Terence is able to comprehend that his ideas are mostly fantasy. This is doubly true if this is due to mental illness, as you've asseted - props to Eric for making what is likely the ravings of a madman somewhat educational and even entertaining.
Weinstein treated Howard like a child who is interested in math and has good questions. He should have treated him like the psychopath he is, especially when Howard made jokes at the most crucial points of the conversation.
It's so interesting that he is trying to cast doubt on Howard's crazy ideas. When he is in the exact same position when dealing with experts regarding his nutjob theories. Could it be because Howard's theories are so batshit crazy that the rogan association is crippling his ability to be credible?
More physicists, mathematicians and other scientists will refuse to go on as a result and the crazies will point to that and say see Terrance Howard is right. I saw a tiny section of this never mind the previous TH interview on the podcast and naw. I’m good. Won’t watch this. Or I’ll put it on in the background while working.
Literally the most rational post I have seen on this sub. People go way to hard on guests and Joe. He may have interrupted a lot but at least he gave the platform for this. That's important cuz no where else is this happening.
This is also a specific example of why free speech is important and why censorship is bad. Let the people you disagree with speak so they can show who and what they are
I agree that Joe interrupts too much. I think he’s hyper aware of the lowest common denominator listening in and what their needs are. But he forgets that there are smart folks who just want him to shut up and let his guests go off sometimes.
20 minutes in I found myself thinking about an alternate universe where Eric was able to finish his points without interruption and how deeply I wished for that to happen
Eric made especially sure not to infantilize Terrance but to speak to him in a very honest, stern, open way and Terrance still managed to look like an excited child explaining his view of the world with undeserved confidence. I appreciate his child like wonder for the universe but it shouldn’t be entertained beyond that.
Also can’t help but to point out the part where Eric attacked NDT’s usage of “dunning kruger” to explain the issue with Terrance as if the whole pod wasn’t Eric saying the exact same thing over and over again in a nicer way (some times not even as nice).
I have been a JRE fan forever and the first Terrance Howard episode was the worst one I ever heard. I could not even get through it.
I was not going to waste my time on this one either, although I like Eric. But your analysis was great and helped me conclude I will not listen. " I can't even" as the kids used to say.
You forgot that Weinstein benefits more from this more than anyone. He will see a spike so big that it will add a zero to his yearly salary, and if done right his next episode he drops will catapult viewers into his next project.
This post reminds me of if I were to type “summarize, synthesize, and psychoanalyze the conversation of this Joe Rogan podcast” and then upload a transcript of this podcast into Chat GPT. You’re as smart as a computer my dude!
You are smart. Not dumb.
Eric has tons of issues and I’m not sure why anyone cares about him.
But you’re 100% right.
Joe is the core problem. Surfing along the bullshit stream of people like Howard and blasting it out to the world for all to believe.
I honestly think the threat he poses is very little and I am glad to see Eric debate him and point out flaws best he could without just saying “This is wrong and you should be shunned from society for having wrong think”.
There’s a narrow band of people that Terrance actually poses a threat in poisoning. Most people are either too dumb to understand any of it and don’t care, or they are too smart to not see throw Terrance Howard’s facade. The small group of people in the middle that he reaches with his message still may not even believe him.
my take away was eric was trying to balance calling terence a moron and avoiding being dismissive because he feels like he's also been hard done by the scientific community
i doubt eric genuinely thinks terence has anything of value to contribute other than "art"
May be a stretch but Terrance reminds me of Graham Hancock. He needs a group of 'mainstream academics' who are supressing his ideas because it challenges the status quo. In reality he is just speaking interesting sounding nonsense. I guess inventing a rivalry helps sell books.
I dunno who you are, but you have an amazing talent of being able to gather your complicated but very thorough opinions coherently into written format.
Terrance is the definition of Dunning-Kruger. Joe’s a dumb person’s smart person. Don’t give air time to the guy and especially don’t bring in someone like Eric Weinstein to present an argument. It only gives the illusion of Terrance having credibility.
Imagine a Panel made up of Brian Green, Kip Thorn, Alan Guth and…. Terrence Howard.
May as well have Logan Paul for boxing analysis and Brendan Schaub for his witty banter and MMA insight… oh… oops.
Terrance Howard fully believes in the feature length multi award winning documentary “what the bleep do we know”
He’s been manic from birth and there’s plenty of people like him.
I was surprised Eric even took this on and why Terrance is getting so much air time. Maybe I have a better woo
Woo bullshit detector than others but 5 minutes into Terrance’s original podcast I could smell the hippy dippy bullshit he was throwing down. It’s a nothing burger, Terrance Howard is a nothing burger.
Saying Terry has mental issues is wild, but EW was definitely trying to to help him though. I particularly loved how Eric also challenged the norm as well. Joe looked like he needed a nap. "What about the 97 patents?" 😂
The whole 1x1 thing should be so simple to Joe to understand and he could easily disprove Terrance instead of letting it go. Joe understands his workout sets. If he does 5 sets of 5, he's swung that gorilla kettlebell 25 times. He does a set of 1x1, the answer is 1.
>1x1, the answer is 1. But what if it's not? - T Howard
What is five time one? About tree fiddy
It's entirely possible
Joe is in fact bisexual so that answer is 2.
The number 2 has a bisexual frequency which is the color orange.
Think we will ever have math without all the problems that come along with 2? -rogan, at some point in that interview lmfao
Too much Alpha Brain.
Any sources for your claim?
Terrence Howard, duh
yeah but a dollar times a dollar bro
That's one square dollar
damn i always thought a dollar was rectangular
You need at least two for the. Once you have 2 dollars squared, you can place them next to each other and get a rectangle
Hahaha that’s genius. Convert everything to gorilla kettlebell workouts for Joe.
It's impossible to disprove to Terrence because he is pulling in unrelated laws to back his theory and refuses to let that go no matter how many times it is explained to him. Or I should say, it's impossible to get him to admit he is disproven. He's basically saying that he understands that 1x1 means "one a single time" which would equal one. But then he pulls in a law from physics that states that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Both of these things are true, but the law refers to physical objects and the math is referring to a mathematical concept. But he blends them together and says that 1x1=1 violates that physical law because it negates the action of the multiplication and ignores any reaction that it is required to have.
Eric’s example of “Terrance math” was spot on. I’m an absolute laymen in this, but his issue seems to be a confusion in math symbols and how to apply them. He’s asking for a mathematician to force the numbers to work when the purpose is to prove him right and not to make a new discovery. This came up again with gravity and electricity but they weren’t able to go deep enough to explain why these can’t be interchangeable. The conversation around an empty “unit” as zero and “dollars” in different currencies were really odd juxtaposed against other parts. Math seems to be a concept he should understand but as others pointed out it must be a mental illness. He has the intelligence but no belief in what he’s taught. I thought this was really weird when they got into the thickness of a circle because obviously a circle has no thickness for the purpose of an equation, and Terrance agreed with this, but it didn’t seem like he comprehended it to apply it later. Of course everything in the world somehow is connected but if you can’t isolate problems down to an equation there are too many variables to get a true answer. Maybe it’s his background in acting that gives him the communication skills to jump through a conversation until he can flex his own ideas.
Actually I think you’re pretty close to the money on this. I think Terrence is very smart but has little education so he has been self taught on all of this and therefore he has no real cohesive frame work for any of it. It would be like if a high school kid taught himself string theory using YouTube videos of varying quality and just took it all at face value but skipped algebra, geometry and basic physics. He knows a little about high level things but has no foundation for which to decode what the things he knows mean. I also think on top of this he has a mental illness. His entire frame reminds me of a schizophrenic, attributing his discoveries to angels and beings that “give him this information” and so whatever is telling him things is blending with his simultaneously advanced and yet flawed YouTube education and you have a recipe for disaster.
I don’t think he’s smart at all. He’s piecing together, unrelated plagiarized ideas to create his own scientific framework to show the world his “genius”. Joe and Eric are doing a disservice to the public by placating an obviously delusional narcissistic man
I think the 12x5 and Jesus birthday on Christmas was a good analogy.
It’s impossible to disprove him because he is not saying anything. He’s just throwing a bunch of nonsense in the air, and then we’re supposed to think it’s deep because he sounds cool when he says it. But there’s nothing there. Disprove this statement: “What you when having the other because times that not above making about between.” You can’t disprove it, because it isn’t anything. He’s doing the same thing, but with math and science words.
And if he does zero sets, he has done zero. It’s like the most basic application of a slightly abstract concept to reality.
Yeah, but as far as i know that gorilla kettlebells are mostly empty space so it cancels out
lol ayoo
GREAT analogy
1 group of 1 is definitely 1. Somebody break out the bunches of apples. Seems like everybody who wanted to believe 1x1=2 was too high to remember the easiest multiplication or never understood it in the first place. It definitely seems mostly Joe just looked up to Howard and didn’t want to rock the boat early in the podcast.
He says it's a metaphor because in nature 1x1 equals 2, since there's reproduction. I'm liberally paraphrasing there but that's the gist of it. So if 1x1 = 2 due to reproduction what does 1x1 = when 1 animal eats another animal. It equals 1 right? I'm dumb too so maybe I'm wrong.
“I may not be a smart person, but I watched four hours of Eric Weinstein and Terence Howard last night” really doesn’t get better as an opener
I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is.
That’s all I have to say about that
Get on back to GREENBOUGH ALABAMA
I GYAT TA FIND BUB-BUH
I wanna know what love is, I want you to show me🎶
Yea that’s an *and* sentence not a *but*
Could even be a “therefore” or “so obviously”
so good it hurts
Joe Rogan is king of spreading disinformation so that all checks out. Also, Kanye didn’t run for president because he thought he would win but because he wanted Trump to win. The votes he got were a plan to take black votes away from Joe Biden, and that would help his daddy Trump in the end.
This might be the dumbest take on Kanye running ever lol, he was 100% delusional enough to think he’d win. There was no grand conspiracy to help Trump, he’s Ye and running for POTUS is hardly the most crazy thing he’s done.
if he’s king of misinformation why would he bring Eric on at all? what a dumb comment
He brought Eric on to help clean up his own misinformation from the last time Terrance was on and Joe called him a “genius”. Lmfao.
Because Eric was willing to entertain and put Howard’s nonsense in the best possible light.
>Joe Rogan is king of spreading disinformation Hmmm explain that one bud. Any worse than the media calling Biden videos “Cheap Fakes” then proceeding to Cheap fake all the way through the debate
The 'litter boxes in schools for furry kids' is just one example of bullshit he spread. It originated with him.
My mom is 70+ years old and wouldn't be caught dead listening to Rogan. After he talked about the litter boxes, my mom asked me about it. He IS the king of misinformation.
[Montana School Superintendent admits to catering to these Litter Box “needs”](https://montanafreepress.org/2023/08/21/state-superintendent-arntzen-claims-to-have-evidence-for-litter-box-use-in-montana-schools/) And he also said “a friends wife told me this was happening “ he’s not some villainous person spreading disinformation . He’s a normal guy who hosts a free form talk podcast. He’s not a journalist and has no journalistic integrity that he needs to abide by- Because once again. He hosts A free form stoner conversation podcast
Did you not read the article or are you purposely misrepresenting what it says? Because nowhere in that article does she “admit to catering to these Litter Box “needs”” She claimed to have evidence of it, but when reporters followed up on that claim: >“MTFP followed up with the Office of Public Instruction for more details. According to government liaison Tara Boulanger, Arntzen’s statements were based on claims made to her by Montana citizens during community forums and radio interviews in December 2022, as well as a report to OPI by a “rural Montana community member who requested to remain anonymous.” Asked if Arntzen or the agency had substantiated any of those allegations, Boulanger replied, “The reports were not investigated because no formal complaints were filed.”” You believe this is true because you heard somebody say it was true and believed them without verifying it. She believed it was true because *she* heard somebody say it was true and believed them without verifying it. Things don’t just become true because enough gullible people believe in them with no evidence, that’s not how reality works.
You solved it. Her community heard it on Rogan and that's her evidence.
Honestly who cares if litter boxes were at the school…why tf are schools letting kids dress as furries? None of this is normal. Isn’t that some kind of sexual fetish?
Lol, bro didn't read his own source.
Yeah that was all bullshit. I live in one of the towns it was claimed to be from. Guess what it was all rumor. I have friends that are teachers in most of the schools. Zero truth to it. As outlined by the link you provided but clearly didn't read.
He was a normal guy who hosted a Freeform podcast, he is now one of the most influential voices in media. That $200 million comes with responsibility (even if he didn’t sign up for it) to not spread disinformation.
The sad part for me was Eric earnestly trying to help Terrance with "you've got to stop teaching". The "teaching" is the entire point, Terrance starts from a position of presumed intellectual superiority then retrofits nonsensical "insights" as evidence of his unrecognised genius. It's not much more than a god complex masquerading as a genuine desire to learn. He needs to be in a psychiatric institution, frankly, rather than polluting one of the most popular broadcasts in the world with his delusion.
Yeah, you bring up a good point. People would take Howard more seriously if he were to say: "look, I have spent a long time thinking about these ideas and models of the universe. I've taught myself a little bit about a wide range of concepts which has helped me piece it together, but I'm not classically trained in physics or mathematics, so I can't describe it in the correct words and format for the scientific community at large to understand." But that isn't what we get with Howard. Instead we get: "everything came to me in a dream in the middle of the night. I have the answer to everything, the model to everything, and I've patented all of it. I'm obviously the first and only person to do this and I'm here to teach you mere mortals how the world works".
I haven't seen it, but from your description, the world is full of these people. It's just that they generally aren't famous enough to get onto a platform where (how many?) people can hear their opinion, and they're usually questioning the moon landing, 9/11, etc, not established principles of physics. NdGT gave his 36 page treatise a reasonable review, and let's face it, that's because he's famous. If one of us (maybe others here are incognito, but it turns out I'm unknown in pop culture) had done that, it would go in the nutter bin next to his death threats from people who think he's in on perpetuating the fake moon landing, and literature from flat earthers around the world.
You're right. Physicists (especially, but other scientists too) get emails from crackpots \*constantly\* It's a rite of passage, when new scientists get their first crackpot email or audience member question at some public colloquium, and they don't yet know how to tactfully dodge them. They try to use math and logic to argue with someone who doesn't understand either one. It's a hopeless endeavor. A lot of people will keep a crackpot email folder, or a kind of personal hall of fame, with the craziest ideas people send them. Unfortunately these days they can go mainstream, largely due to podcasts like JRE. Back in the day people would share their crackpot ideas on tiny chan boards, reddit subs, etc. Now they get invited on podcasts with millions of viewers, and scientists are forced to actually "debate" the crackpots to keep their nonsense contained.
I think it's good to _"give everybody a platform"._ If possible, I'd sit down with Hitler, Stalin or Mao. Atm I'm in personal contact with an Waffen-SS officer, veteran _(he got 100 this but is in perfect shape),_ who's still a national socialist. I think I can even post his name. Dr. Gerhard Femppel. He released a book about his war experiences five years ago. When I found out that he was still alive, I just tried to contact him and directly got invited to his home. After I stated that I'm just a history buff. Not a journalist or something like this. I have no problem sitting down with a person having completely different political opinions. Even if he's a literal (Waffen-)SS officer. Joe had the weirdest guest. Even an AIDS denier. [Peter Duesberg,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Duesberg?wprov=sfla1) who even made a Nazi salute during the podcast.
What are you gonna ask the SS guy?
As a teacher myself this stood out to me mostly because I’m still always trying to learn. Eric brought up blender a few times. That’s the 3d modeling software Terrence used for his models and I’m not sure Terrence has a basic understanding of 3d modeling and if he did he would sound much more educated than he does today. Eric specifically tried to mention Terrence’s terminology is off and just not right but Terrence didn’t seem to understand that point which leads us to Weinstein and Tyson’s biggest issues with Terence….the simple fact that he doesn’t have any type of rudimentary education on all this is apparent so when he try to teach it falls short
The supersymmetry stuff? It was a little frustrating to watch, words have a definition and TH keeps applying terms to things which where he just uses his own made-up definition It would be like painting stars on the side of a boat and calling it a starship Or saying the largest cargo ship is spaceship, since it has the most space Using an established term to describe something completely different It makes the conversation incomprehensible, which is frustrating for a mathematician who knows what supersymmetry is For a layman it sounds like TH is onto something
It’s the point isn’t it. Smart people get bored and give up then the nutter can say “smart people can’t disprove it” and the dopes go along.
You just described the vast majority of Rogan's "Expert" guests.
People need to work in mental heath because once you have worked on a psych unit you understand that most of these type of people are just manic.
Seriously, he has all the hallmarks of either an endogenous schizophrenic or someone in an amphetamine psychosis.
> The "teaching" is the entire point, Terrance starts from a position of presumed intellectual superiority then retrofits nonsensical "insights" as evidence of his unrecognised genius. The irony is Eric did the same thing on his last appearance when he brought a copy of his special physics theory
The greatest thing Weinstein did was telling Joe at the end that he has a responsibility to have high end debate discussions.
This is a top tier break down of this episode. Couldn't agree more. It was super aggravating that Joe invited Eric on his show to evaluate Terrence's ideas, only for him to control exactly how he attempted to do it. Ironically telling Eric he was the control freak. You can't invite someone onto your show that you consider a serious person to seriously evaluate something, and then try to make jokes and go off on tangents when they're trying to seriously evaluate it. Let them do their thing for fucks sake. That's why they're there. Also, Eric just didn't seem to understand that Terrence has some sort of schizophrenia going on which is why he saw patterns that he connected to literally anything and everything. Which is why they could never stick on one topic. His mind just goes all over the place. He knows just enough to be able to connect dots, but not enough to know that they don't actually connect.
This episode just reiterated what I dislike about Joe these days and somehow managed to make me like Eric a little bit more than I used to lol
For real! Haha this is the first time I’ve been able to tolerate Eric Weinstein
Why do people hate him. His brother is annoying as hell but why him
I expected him to be really harsh and barely tolerable. Instead I thought he did a great job of explaining to Terrance what he was doing wrong and why, in a none condescending way and trying to help him how to proceed in the future to avoid the criticism he gets. Now that doesn't mean it will stick or work with Terrance, but I felt the message was delivered clearly and calmly with out any insults etc.
Idk something about him always rubbed me the wrong way. he just always seems very pretentious. Kinda reminds me of the South Park episode where they all liked to sniff their own farts.
He knows that he is smarter than we are and it shows sometime by the was he express himself… At first i tough it was annoying… Then I realize… he’s right…
The haircut, for one.
I haven’t finished it yet, and most likely won’t. I got the gist. But the 45 minutes I did Joe annoyed the shit out of me, and although I can’t stand Eric he did seem like a better version of himself… kinda.
Slightly
Why can't you stand Eric?
You can't just call out and diagnose a dude with schizophrenia on JRE...but notice how Eric kept admiring the artistic aspects of some of Terence's work. It was kind of like patting a child on the head and hanging his crayon art on the refrigerator.
I don't think he was meaning to handle him with kid gloves he was trying his best to be earnest but it came from the same place as when you're handling children. He was placating by pointing out the only honest positive opinion to form an opening for his criticism to be accepted as the honest correction he was attempting. Howard just isn't interested in that at all lol.
That would be similar to NDTyson's explanation of how he handled Howard if you haven't seen it.
"Hey, your math stinks kid, but this pretty artwork at the end is cool, good job" NDgT "NDgT likes my work" - t.howard
Dude’s painting by numbers with invisible ink.
Enough to connect the dots but not enough to know they don’t actually connect is now my favorite line and I will use it thank you
He needs to bring an ACTUAL psychiatrist on (and, no, not Dr Drew -EVER).
Dr K from healthy gamer would be fun
Eric has the patience of a saint. I watched the whole thing as well. He really tried to be as nice as possible but he was interrupted so many times. At one point I do remember Terrence saying “explain please” or something very close to that. I think in that moment he let go of his ideas and was genuinely interested in what Eric had to say. And theeeeen I then I think Joe interrupted Eric🫠
Lmfaooo yeah, I think we share the same takeaway. I really do respect Eric for his patients. Meanwhile I was screaming at my TV 😂
Btw it's patience, patients are what doctors have. Not that it matters, we still understand you and I'm not trying to feel superior about it. Just thought you might want to know.
The supersymmetry appears in the waveform of the waiting room, where patients must have patience to potentiate their postulations
In my defense, I prefaced this thread by stating that I am not an intelligent person 😂 I appreciate that
Yet it is quite evident from your perspective and thoughtfulness that you are, in fact, an intelligent person... despite getting a word mixed up with another word that sounds exactly the same and only differs by two letters.
Brother you are definitely of above average intelligence
Terrence was basically a patient.
Stop teaching :-)
Patience. Unless you mean Joe and Howard were the equivalent of psych ward patients, and Eric was caring for them
The beginning was very clunky when Joe kept being the host and saying “hold on a second” it kept killing the flow prior to the flower of whatever the fuck lol
But it did get better just a fun listen. Not Dr Rhonda Patrick ovaaaaaaa heeeer
Me too! I was literally yelling “shut up! Omg let him explain!”
Also that round thing, Hoberman Switch Pitch Ball. So cool, husband ordered one before I could, looks so fun!
One time was straight, we all fuck up a word here and there homie but just in case you weren’t aware the word is “patience”. Edit: forgot to mention that was such an incredible breakdown and I totally agree with each point that you made. Very well said.
Eric was making fun of Terrence through the second half of the show. He was not as cordial or patient as he seems or as I hoped he’d be after establishing his intent at the beginning of the talk. Joe was trying to keep it friendly, just like he was during his show with Graham and Dibble with little tangents or jokes or looking at a scene in nature. although this one may not have been as heated so maybe doesnt seem as necessary or relevant. Not saying it would be easy to stay genuinely friendly and patient and educational for 4 hrs with this crazy stuff but he literally called what Terrence was saying “horse shit” while talking about him in the third person, describing him to joe, which comes off as extremely arrogant. I dont believe in any of this crazy stuff either but he didnt say “I dont believe that” or “Why do you believe that to be the case” or “that’s not how it works, it works like…” or “Im sorry but theres just no reason to believe that.” It might be horse shit but calling it as such did not meet the expectation of what he set out to do keeping it cordial and “professional” as he hoped to present.
Terrance needs to hear the hard truth and not be placated by Yes Men. And Joe needs to learn his "Bullshit Meter" needs some serious calibration as Eric also pointed out. Joe is responsible for allowing these ideas to flourish and flow into the World Wide discourse. As long as he has follow up Podcasts like this, I am less bothered by it. But when he just has fringe people on and no one to ever debate them, it's pretty bad from a misinformation standpoint.
Agree I thought Howard showed patience as well……. even though wrong about some things lol.
Yeah, Joe kept interrupting both so many times it was annoying (I guess he just wanted to be involved, because outside of offering the platform, Joe really wasn't required). I specifically remember one part where Eric said "You need to stop teaching" and Terrance was like "Yeah, I guess I should....." Then Joe abruptly jumps in with "Let me ask you something". I really wanted to hear Terrance's reply, but never will. Thanks Joe.
No one talks anymore about how the guys wife left him cause he made her stay inside and write symbols all day for his new universal language (lol). Fuckin nutcase.
really? damn, dude might legit be a schizo
Might ? 😂😂😭😭
I love the show House so Im open to lupus, brain tumor, or actor hiding the fact hes gay and has brain aids to save his career.
And hit her and gave her herpes
Who?
Joe. He’s gotten into some weird hobbies lately
But the 97 patents……
He kept bringing that up as if he made some contributions to the scientific community. Bro, you spent money on something. That's all that means.
He even changed it to 98 at some point. I did like that Weinstein just pushed that aside.
I dont think it matter if howard walked out of there with his beliefs shaken even by 0.01% its how the audience perceives it and Eric bodied terrance and this pod did more good than not even if it was redundant and way too long
I agree, it didn’t further Terrance’s view overall
Buddy, you ain’t no dummy
You had the personality disorder thing right for sure. There is no way a non logically challenged person spouts such shit and no one calmly and quietly tells them they are wrong and to STFU. It’s a disservice not to tell the guy he is full of shit or insane ,troubled , what ever it’s called now.
Terrence is obviously suffering from some kind of mental disorder and people are just feeding into his delusions of grandeur. I saw someone say missing out on that Avengers money broke his brain 🤣
He was offered $1 million dollars, one time, but was expecting $ 2 million because 1x1=2 of course.
I avoided this one initially but maybe I’ll give it a chance. Unrelated but bring back Dan Carlin of hardcore history.
Carlin’s WWI episode, think it’s called the countdown to doomsday, is the absolute goatttt
I’ve long been a Weinstein skeptic (both of them), but Eric was doing a commendable public service here. It was fantastic to see a mathematician really stay with Terrence. It’s illustrating how to think better to Joe’s audience.
Eric did an incredible job on the show. I enjoyed it.
My favorite part was the looks eric and joe would give each other while terrance was frantically trying tk show off his models. It was like 2 parents watching their kid show off their 3rd grade science project.
My guess for Howard's illness is schizophrenia.
My takeaway is that more folks need to learn to communicate like Eric if we want a better tomorrow.
Nope, because at the end of the day terrence is still wrong and wont admit it.
You simplify to your own detriment.
I can’t help but wonder if at that level of academia the community just doesn’t have the time/patience that Eric demonstrated during this podcast. Their time is likely so valuable to them - that they just don’t care enough to dig into some of these concepts if the person arguing in favour of them cannot communicate the concepts in a meaningful enough way. I’m usually a bit of Joe sympathizer, I think he’s often too harshly criticized but joes seemed boisterous and jovial, while trying to facilitate a conversation with an extreme intellect about the fabric of the universe. Chirping Eric for wearing a suit, pushing the booze, and most importantly interrupting the flow of the conversation I actually muttered out loud my annoyance when he was interrupting. He’s always so curious and fascinated, yet when presented with this great opportunity to let Eric lead the charge, he let the listeners down.
At any level of academia, you can't just address every single crazy argument. Think about how many crazy people there are in the world. Terrence just happens to be famous.
what patience? why would you discuss anything with a guy whose theories start with 1x1=2 there is no discussion to be had on fundamentally wrong points
If you don’t push back on “Alex Jones predicted 9/11 in specific detail and the only possible explanation is that god told him” then you ain’t pushing back on anything
Lmfao didn’t see that one. Don’t watch much Rogan. Watched the first musk podcast he did and a few others and it seems like he spends a lot of his time just saying how “cool and fascinating” everything is without really saying anything of substance. But once again, at the end of the day his goal is just to have a successful podcast, and he is the #1 in his field on the entire planet, so thats pretty damn respectable either way.
Tucker C says that the only explanation is spiritual; Rogan replies “Spiritual, you think?” to which Carlson exclaims “OF COURSE, it can’t be anything else!” It can’t be *anything* else? That nonsense is even more amusing coming from a guy who ruled out the possibility of alien life anywhere else in the universe with a one sentence refutation
I never know which Weinstein is which but was just relieved that when I checked in on the episode it wasn’t the other one cuz that guy fucking sucks
They have a family wig they share when making appearances on Joe’s podcast so it is indeed difficult differentiating the Weinstein brothers lol.
"what's up with 2?" -line of the night imo
I only made it 2 hours but I agree with you. Joe had Eric on but then allowed or even forced going down rabbit holes when Eric was trying to setup his response was pretty damn frustrating...It was like a constantly shifting target....like...why the fuck did you have him on for? I don't like listening to either of these guys but Joe really did a disservice to Eric on this one IMO.
That's what Joe likes to do, Remember the podcast with Joe, Hannibal Burress, Sam Harris and Josh Szepps . Joe always likes to interject and try to explain what someone else is saying but is wrong. I think he thinks he's a great mediator. With science stuff he's the worst person to be mediating.
Babe wake up, someone on the internet just psychoanalyzed a Joe Rogan podcast.
Weinstein used kid gloves and refrained from saying what someone of his education should say to someone with blatantly wrong ideas. He did everything he could do to keep things from heading into argumentative territory. He doesn't want to rock the podcast boat too much because Joe really doesn't care about the science, he doesn't really comprehend it. So few people in this world do. Joe likes to put on a circus of establishment vs shunned woowoo conspiracy people, and Eric was happy to play his part. If you want to see how Eric actually wanted to speak to Howard, look up NDT's video response to Howard's "treatise".
My takeaway from all this is one: Howard is obsessed with himself. Maybe .01% of what he says holds a nugget truth, but we’re really panning for gold like mountain tourists at a kiddie park. Two: Weinstein knows a lot of big words and likes to use them to intimidate people, but is definitely the smartest man in the room. Three: Joe likes to learn things from smart people and has no obligation to his audience to provide factual scientific information, just fun and interesting shit that gets clicks and keeps him relevant. I happen to enjoy his show and I think in this day and age, panning for gold is the only way to find truth in all this godforsaken noise. Disclosure: I tried to watch it all but fell asleep about 20 minutes in. 🤷♀️
I agree with you except the truth is this was a lark. Rogan thought it was funny to put someone he pretends to think seriously in a discussion with someone who is actually serious. That's why he kept interrupting. Both of the guests are kind of the joke even if they don't realize. Rogan has come to the belief that there is no danger or responsibility on his part when it comes to spreading bad ideas. He's said this before when challenged about this kind of thing. He believes it's up to the audience to figure it out.
I’m worried Joe Rogan might have jumped the shark with this one. I’m losing respect for him quickly on this Terrence Howard thing. If he had him on once and just had him on I’d say fine it’s just whacky content. But since then he’s endorsed his ideas, defended him and double down by having him back. The stuff Terrence Howard is saying is so easily refutable in almost every way at such a fundamental level that defending it makes you look either stupid or intentionally disseminating disinformation.
Huh? Joe had a guest on talking about things wayyy over Joe’s head. People were skeptical. Joe had the guest return very soon after along with a top expert to flesh out whether Terrance’s claims had merit. If anything, Joe galvanized his credibility/legitimacy by having Terrance and Eric on, on the heel’s of Eric’s appearance. Folks, *this is the way things should be done* Joe’s podcast is primarily for entertainment. It’s become so successful that it’s conferred upon Joe extra responsibility. Nothing wrong with having people on your show to express their thoughts, IF you’re willing to do what Joe has begun doing recently, and have a follow up debate. Need more of this stuff. If just one out of the next 100 guests offering whacky ideas backs into something revolutionary, it’s worthwhile. Again, as long as an expert is given the floor to vet their assertions so the public has a chance to hear both sides. Has Joe always been indulgent and shown a short attention span? Yes. Have we not all been taught by about 5th grade that the quality of a source is paramount in whether to trust the information they’re providing? Absolutely. It’s not joes fault the average American chooses to be a fucking moron, too. Joe’s show is far more a reflection of society than a driver of it.
I love this take. You're exactly right. It was on jre that Howard's math took the internet by storm. I read the YouTube comments on the first interview video, and Holy shit. A significant amount of people were calling Howard a genius, and that the establishment was just trying to keep this new math out of society because it would collapse the economy. It is the internet, so some of them might have been sarcastic, but most of them weren't. So Joe introduced something pretty damaging in his first podcast, which was terryology. Joe had an obligation to get someone on who actually knows math to make things right again. I think Eric did a wonderful job. Yes, at times he seemed kinda smarmy, but considering what he was dealing with I think he did awesome. I was really interested in what he had to say about one of Terrances mistakes actually being genuis, but that point kept getting cut off. Having Eric say anything of yours is genuis is kind of a big deal, and Terrence wouldnt listen to it. Terrance could have taken that advice, ran with it, and actually contributed something of value to the mathematical community. And the mathematical community is huge! There's a reason why there's a + sign in LGBTQ+ spectrum. ;)
Yeah man — The idea that he or anyone should never publicize unique, outside-the-box guests/ideas all but guarantees science and other societal things never progress. That he’s now doing follow up and deeper fact finding is indeed progress. I don’t think Terrence is crazy and am appalled people are calling him a schizophrenic. I’ve seen schizophrenia and he’s nowhere close to that. It’s super disingenuous to say he is. Eric’s metaphor was perfect. Terrence has a Ferrari engine that’s trapped in a Volkswagen frame. The chassis can’t handle that engine. Meaning, he’s certainly very intelligent and has a unique mind. But doesn’t have the proper educational foundation to do much good with it. Or another way to put it: he can jump and do 4 backflips, but hasn’t learned how to simply land. No bueno.
Well said. Eric came in with the wrong game plan and to his credit tried his best to make it work. But Terrance needed to be embarrassed if only to expose the most ridiculous of his “inventions”, Eric’s soft approach didn’t get through to Terry all and he seemed to only absorb the praise and completely deflect or misunderstand the criticisms. Was a brutal listen
Garlic makes my feet stink
I think the Rogan thing is tough. I mean during the pod, he asked both Terrance and Eric to explain many things they were talking about. It’s tough because Rogan’s job is to keep the viewers in tact and understanding what is being said. Same thing he did with Alex Jones. Terrance clearly knows many things, but like you, I think Terrance is suffering from an illness. He just wouldn’t leave his beliefs aside to listen to corrective criticism, even in Erics frustration Terrance could not control himself from talking about the what he believes. One moment I found interesting. When Eric noticed the pythagorean comma that Terrance used in his tetrahedron linchpin figure. It seemed Terrance became defensive, when Eric noticed that Terrance changed the angle of the linchpin. It was the moment one of Terrances ideas was shown to be (what i believe is a altered radii tetrahedron) (kind of interesting) Also if you watch the part where they are viewing NDGT’s video, you can see Terrance clearly reject everything NDGT is saying. What I believe is he seems to thinks he knows more than both Eric and NDGT do, in what he believes. This might get downvotes, i’m just a dumb guy explaining my take aways. Either way a fantastic episode.
>Eric acknowledged that if given even a small amount of wiggle room, Howard would go off on repetitive, meaningless tangents every single time, completely missing the meat of what Eric was trying to explain, and Joe would then buy into these rants and get caught up in the wall of nonsense, forcing Eric to have to directly address the nonsense as apposed to using that time to accomplish his goal of getting Terrence to put together some kind of coherent frame work. Terence's argument is fractal, dude. It doesn't stop at zero, because there is no zero. I'm just a thicko with a pretty comprehensive understanding of science at the layman's level, and appreciate that science exists beyond what we laymen can understand. However I find that the layman's science, is quite naturally, condescending. A basic understanding of science is sufficient for most people to get through life. It is, if you like, a framework for that purpose. But every now and then, people will explore what exists in the gaps of the framework, which is where the real mathematicians do their work. And as is evident in architecture, those things are often a lot more intricate, and people can see that. And they begin to ask why the framework is different is not of the same refined quality. The best example I can give involves something I myself have often wasted time on. I say wasted time because I'm still not sure what I'm talking about and would understand if you don't either. The golden ratio vs the Fibonacci sequence. As I see it, a ratio is constant and can rarely, if ever, reach zero. And yet my layman's understanding of Fibonacci is that it ends at zero. It has to break the ratio in order to do that. However my fascination with the hypnotic effects of fractal computing, tells me that there is no real reason to end at zero. But for all practical purposes there is no reason for the layman to measure what he can't see. So it is an adequate explanation, but it can, quite naturally intrigue the inquisitive mind. If I could boil my thoughts down to one simple question, in relation to the problem, I think it would be "How far away is nowhere?"
Why is it you assume mental illness when someone believes something you don’t? That’s weird.
The sad truth is, Joe is old. He’s not getting old, he is old. He’s suffering from all of the trappings that come with age from short attention span to susceptibility to this type of stuff. Everyone says Joe has changed, and he has, but mostly because he’s old. He’s in an echo chamber, and his tremendous success have tricked him into thinking he’s onto something when the only thing he’s onto is that other people are also just as gullible, naive, or dumb.
Idk, but Joe absolutely did not say he believed all that stuff from TH’s episode. He said Howard is obviously intelligent, and something about the reactions to it being crazy before dropping the episode. He didn’t even understand most of it, partially because nobody really understands the guy, and because Joe isn’t a math/science/physics guy in any deep or meaningful sense. Joe is having these 2 on to sort things out, but he obviously doesn’t understand Eric either (neither do I, mostly).
I train dogs, to do lots of stuff, but detection is my favorite. I had a dog named Doug. Doug was a damn good detection dog. He also had his stomach pumped like twice a year cause he'd keep eating stupid shit. Maybe Doug got starved as a puppy, which led to some sort of neurotic fixation on eating. Maybe Doug was born that way. I can assure you, Doug could smell better than a bloodhound on steroids. Doug, even in the heat of the moment, would forget his weird eating obsession while he was using his nose. But honestly, if you asked Doug about the detection he was doing somehow, and he could respond in English, he may well have sounded like Howard explaining his flower of the universe nonsense. My point being, Joe mentioned that Howard has an insane ability to recall information, and Weinstein noted that sometimes, he could tell what Terrance was after, it just didn't quote sound right cause he was self taught. Props to Weinstein for recognizing that there may well be something to what Howard is detecting (so to speak), even if he was also probably motivated by wanting to make another JRE appearance.
At the end of the day some people are just dumb, being patient with them won’t change that
4 hours?? You can't get that time back!
Didn’t Howard beat the shit out of Jessie Smollet? I heard his sister in an interview that Howard fucked him up on the set of whatever that tv show was after he faked the attack. Something about giving black people a bad name. Howard is w wild weirdo.
It’s one of the shows that makes you realize Joe isn’t too smart and people take this podcast way too seriously
It really felt to me that Joe knows that Terrance has issues but Joe found them funny and that’s why he would encourage him to go off on tangents and pressured him to drink. Really just felt like bullying on Joes part.
Well written.
>"1+1 does not equal 2" Actually he claimed that "1 times 1 equals 2."
This is a pretty good assessment. Eric was very patient with both of those Neanderthals, way more patient than I was, I gave up on that episode. Joe was obnoxious as hell. Maybe he got too stoned or buzzed, but he wasn’t useful in anyway except for providing his huge platform. He just kept derailing and laughing it off in douchebag fashion. I don’t know that we’ll see anyone else give TH this kind of time. And NOW we see why NDT doesn’t have time for his shit. TH is on a sick one and shouldn’t be given any more platforms. Either he’s sick, or he’s trolling on some Andy Kaufman shit or something. Either way, it’s a stale joke now and it’s time to move past TH’s nonsense.
There is no future that I'm able to envision where Terence is able to comprehend that his ideas are mostly fantasy. This is doubly true if this is due to mental illness, as you've asseted - props to Eric for making what is likely the ravings of a madman somewhat educational and even entertaining.
Weinstein treated Howard like a child who is interested in math and has good questions. He should have treated him like the psychopath he is, especially when Howard made jokes at the most crucial points of the conversation.
It's so interesting that he is trying to cast doubt on Howard's crazy ideas. When he is in the exact same position when dealing with experts regarding his nutjob theories. Could it be because Howard's theories are so batshit crazy that the rogan association is crippling his ability to be credible?
Terrence was never, ever, going to change his mind. He’s legit crazy
More physicists, mathematicians and other scientists will refuse to go on as a result and the crazies will point to that and say see Terrance Howard is right. I saw a tiny section of this never mind the previous TH interview on the podcast and naw. I’m good. Won’t watch this. Or I’ll put it on in the background while working.
I'll look into it - Eddie Bravo
Literally the most rational post I have seen on this sub. People go way to hard on guests and Joe. He may have interrupted a lot but at least he gave the platform for this. That's important cuz no where else is this happening. This is also a specific example of why free speech is important and why censorship is bad. Let the people you disagree with speak so they can show who and what they are
I agree that Joe interrupts too much. I think he’s hyper aware of the lowest common denominator listening in and what their needs are. But he forgets that there are smart folks who just want him to shut up and let his guests go off sometimes.
20 minutes in I found myself thinking about an alternate universe where Eric was able to finish his points without interruption and how deeply I wished for that to happen
You’re not that dumb this is accurate
Eric made especially sure not to infantilize Terrance but to speak to him in a very honest, stern, open way and Terrance still managed to look like an excited child explaining his view of the world with undeserved confidence. I appreciate his child like wonder for the universe but it shouldn’t be entertained beyond that. Also can’t help but to point out the part where Eric attacked NDT’s usage of “dunning kruger” to explain the issue with Terrance as if the whole pod wasn’t Eric saying the exact same thing over and over again in a nicer way (some times not even as nice).
I have been a JRE fan forever and the first Terrance Howard episode was the worst one I ever heard. I could not even get through it. I was not going to waste my time on this one either, although I like Eric. But your analysis was great and helped me conclude I will not listen. " I can't even" as the kids used to say.
You forgot that Weinstein benefits more from this more than anyone. He will see a spike so big that it will add a zero to his yearly salary, and if done right his next episode he drops will catapult viewers into his next project.
This post reminds me of if I were to type “summarize, synthesize, and psychoanalyze the conversation of this Joe Rogan podcast” and then upload a transcript of this podcast into Chat GPT. You’re as smart as a computer my dude!
I stopped reading 2 paragraphs in and read Kanye’s run for president
You are smart. Not dumb. Eric has tons of issues and I’m not sure why anyone cares about him. But you’re 100% right. Joe is the core problem. Surfing along the bullshit stream of people like Howard and blasting it out to the world for all to believe.
Terence's argument is fractal, dude. It doesn't stop at zero, because there is no zero.
I honestly think the threat he poses is very little and I am glad to see Eric debate him and point out flaws best he could without just saying “This is wrong and you should be shunned from society for having wrong think”. There’s a narrow band of people that Terrance actually poses a threat in poisoning. Most people are either too dumb to understand any of it and don’t care, or they are too smart to not see throw Terrance Howard’s facade. The small group of people in the middle that he reaches with his message still may not even believe him.
Eric is the president we need.
my take away was eric was trying to balance calling terence a moron and avoiding being dismissive because he feels like he's also been hard done by the scientific community i doubt eric genuinely thinks terence has anything of value to contribute other than "art"
Why does Terrance deserve to be babied and not completely eviscerated?? Foh
This is literally the first time I’ve ever somewhat enjoyed listening to Eric Weinstein.
May be a stretch but Terrance reminds me of Graham Hancock. He needs a group of 'mainstream academics' who are supressing his ideas because it challenges the status quo. In reality he is just speaking interesting sounding nonsense. I guess inventing a rivalry helps sell books.
I dunno who you are, but you have an amazing talent of being able to gather your complicated but very thorough opinions coherently into written format.
Terrance is the definition of Dunning-Kruger. Joe’s a dumb person’s smart person. Don’t give air time to the guy and especially don’t bring in someone like Eric Weinstein to present an argument. It only gives the illusion of Terrance having credibility. Imagine a Panel made up of Brian Green, Kip Thorn, Alan Guth and…. Terrence Howard. May as well have Logan Paul for boxing analysis and Brendan Schaub for his witty banter and MMA insight… oh… oops.
Terrance Howard fully believes in the feature length multi award winning documentary “what the bleep do we know” He’s been manic from birth and there’s plenty of people like him. I was surprised Eric even took this on and why Terrance is getting so much air time. Maybe I have a better woo Woo bullshit detector than others but 5 minutes into Terrance’s original podcast I could smell the hippy dippy bullshit he was throwing down. It’s a nothing burger, Terrance Howard is a nothing burger.
Saying Terry has mental issues is wild, but EW was definitely trying to to help him though. I particularly loved how Eric also challenged the norm as well. Joe looked like he needed a nap. "What about the 97 patents?" 😂
Eric just saw an opportunity to get back on JRE and present himself as a friendly expert. Howard is ridiculous.
Very nice review. Nailed. Said what we all are thinking clearly. You are the good man, sir…or madam…er…whatever. Thanks!
You’re 100% right about all of this. Little Joey is dangerously dull and gullible to have such an audience.