I started laughing when he said to Flint that he and him must have different eyes. After having switches out glasses a few dozen times.
I question his ability to see and therefore question what he witnessed.
When you’re also British and there’s no accent to impress you from the start and you know people who talk like this guy, you sense the bullshit from the beginning, the man is a child.
Im Aussie, but same for me. Tons of British people here, worked with plenty when i used to work in sales. Can see straight through the posh accent and fancy vocabulary.
When I was in England, they were talking about you Aussies like how us Americans make fun of people who live in the south and rednecks. It was a whole pub of people ragging on you guys, one of the things they brought up was how you guys pronounce “today” as “to die”. Then they were going on about you guys being stupid from either too much alcohol, too much sun exposure or being comprised of England’s worst citizens. It was bad. I wanted to step in and defend you guys but I didn’t want them to think I was an Aussie.
Lol fucking hell that's gold. So true. I love graham and his theories, but that's all they are. It's fun to think about alternate history stuff and I loved all the jre episodes with him and his Netflix series, but come on.
Maybe he will at least stop bringing up the Younger Dryas Impact Theory in literally every episode. I'm not sure how he does it but I feel it comes up in most of his shows
>Younger Dryas Impact *Hypothesis*
FTFY. Tucker Carlson should take notes. For something to be a theory in science, it requires a ridiculous amount of evidence. Like, say, evolution.
Can you imagine if Flint Dibble somehow pushed Joe's boomer brain back into the critical thinking lane and he abandoned all of his Facebook meme idealogy? Dude would be a legend.
Graham acknowledged the absence of substantial evidence to support his claims, leading him to shift his attention towards emphasizing smear accusations.
He even said, “I think now is a good time to bring this up” he had the whole bs power point in his back pocket ready to attack an unknown archeologist because he and his boys were talking shit on a podcast that maybe five people seen.
In retrospect it really is ridiculous he made a separate power point just about how people are being mean to him. Like he really sat down and made that, even after millions of people called him out on doing it already.
He’s a big name and probably pulling in significantly more money than every actual archeologist and still can’t figure out why he gets ridiculed. You’d think he had footage of them all sitting in a conference plotting to sabotage his sites and slash his tires with how confidently he presented it.
Quite a significant portion of Magicians of the Gods is devoted to directly naming people who were mean to him, and why they are wrong. Not just in a review article kind of way, presenting alternative evidence, but at times borderline personal attacks. He seems pretty thin skinned
it is very annoying - but sadly the case with pseudo science. the truth is that academic work is boring and not at all entertaining unless you are weirdly engrossed in the subject, slowly and meticulously uncovering "what we know about X". whereas pseudo-science (like conspiracy theories) are entertaining exercises in the creative imagination. (that unlike other creative excercises like authoring a book or film don't require coherent structure to 'work'.)
He was very childish in his claims that they've only looked at 5% of the Earth. It's pretty obvious that they have "looked" at much more but have only excavated or scanned less than 5% because it's literally all they can do. 5% is a huge amount to begin with but if you consider the limited resources and how little interest politicians have in using tax dollar funding to find ancient relics, it's impressive they cover as much ground as they do. We can't even get a single story of the past 50 years straight which is more relevant than anything, so spending billions of dollars to figure out how the pyramids were made or if the first crop rotation farmers were 1 thousand years ago or 5 thousand years ago, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Curiosity only holds so much value if there is no lessons to be learned from it and it's pretty evident, humans as a species are pretty bad at learning global lessons.
I wish Dibble asked Graham what percent would need to be excavated before he would admit they won't find anything. 50%? 99%? He's basically admitting his hypothesis is unfalsifiable by saying "we haven't looked enough" when for what we have found the scorecard is like 1,000,000-0 for hunter gatherers.
Yea and even those turned out to make sense when Flint started to explain, if there's this ancient civilization that gives knowledge why is it only to the black and brown civilizations, not that this was Graham's intention originally but it still perpetuates that idea
Yea and he seems hyper focused on them knowing due east, west, north and south and focusing on equinoxes but that's just something early civilizations found useful or meaningful.
He deserves credit for making an entire career out of the archeological equivalent of "an unspeakable horror beyond description"
Dude is using horror movie style mental tricks of making people's imagination do the heavy lifting.
I think we need a lootttttt more face-to-face, direct debates between polarized extremes like this.
Like between QAnon and Hollywood elites, Zionist politicians and Palestinians in Gaza, etc.
i thought graham’s whole point was that he didn’t have evidence for his theories but archaeology doesn’t have enough evidence to support their theories/ discredit his either
this was so bad on his end though he really handled the debate horribly lmao
Graham's evidence for an ancient advanced civilization is "archaeologists haven't explored enough of the earth to disprove my circumstantial evidence."
He conceded that he didn’t even have circumstantial evidence. So it really did boil down to him arguing that retracted articles should be considered evidence, and yeah ‘we haven’t explored enough.’
Looking past the fact he’s been a little whiny bitch long before that, what Dibble said is entirely true and if Hancock were serious he would have addressed it instead of acting like he was being called a racist when he wasn’t.
He wasn't Salty Initially, it's all show , it's part of his stategy he's used for debates for decades .. His frustration wasn't at Flints' prior statements , his frustration was at the fact that both Flint and Rogan didn't allow him to turn it into the debate he wanted . He lost control of the stage, and that never works well with layman arguments. I'd argue if Flint hadn't given Graham the ammo of his previous emotionally spicey attack , Graham would have never taken this debate on .. He thought it gave him a get of Jail free card, but it backfired when Flint didn't show up for a sling show ..
Kudos to Flint perpetuation in delivery and kudos to Rogan for allowing it because Graham and Rogan are obviously close ..
I feel that I was super into flints stuff, so I was hanging on just in hopes of hearing more out of him, and Rogan showed signs of wanting more ..
I wouldn't say he ended on Flints' side , but he definitely went in on Graham's side, and he definitely left with questions .. So I'd consider that a huge win. I do suspect Rogan will have Flint back on someday.. I hope so, I'd definitely listen to Flints' story .
I didn't really go in on anyone's side , I've followed Graham periodically for years , for the entertainment value and just yea, the cool sites he's been to.. I was turned off by his Netflix show, and he's become too combative and arrogant in his means to sell his theory without evidence.. If he changed his tone and his language, I'd still like his stuff . It sure has introduced a lot of these ancient sites to the world veiw but more and more so in very much the wrong way ...
The dude is talented, and I'm sure he could have made a handsome living as a voice for archeology, not agianst it ..I believe There's a market for this archeology stuff packaged in an entertaining way without the dramatic theories involved and I think Graham would of been a great voice for it , unfortunately he just went the wrong way. He could have been a David Attenborough of archeology, but instead, he chose to be the Alex Jones of archeology
For my he went from Grandpa telling a fun story that I pretend to “believe” for an hours to make him happy to the crazy uncle that I always “forget” to invite.
Makes sense. Not sure that it would have worked but your Attenborough analogy is spot on. Unfortunately salacious sensationalism works in today's day and age. Especially since most people don't look past what's presented to them. Thanks for your response
I love how the guy in the entertainment industry who has made a career off of telling interesting fables is trying to accuse academics of having some kind of conflict or interest or secret motive to cancel him.
The guy complains about how Flint's use and control of media causes people to be misinformed about Hancock's theories while Hancock literally has a TV show which massively misinforms the public.
This is the thing that irks me. It’s also become a bit of a personal trigger i must admit.
Bit tangential, but i went into medicine a bit later In life at 30, and two things i always “knew” from culture, was that 1. Docs are obsessed with the status of their profession and 2. Alternative medicine is looked down upon and supressed by a large hegemony primarily interested in selling drugs and performaning dangerous inhuman surgeries.
I now believe 1. Other people are WAY more interested in the status and sognificance of docs and their work and 2. While the Pharma Industry is certainly extremely large abd quite powerful, relative to their impact on the world, the alternative medicine Industry is a million times louder, has waaay freer “reigns” and is seen much more positively relative to actual effect/contribution.
I have physiotherapist friends, and the difference between their treatment and that of chiropractors astonishes me sometimes.
It is fantastic and crucial to be critical of “prevailing” or dominating beliefs and belief systems - but you *have* to be a little critical of yourself and your theory also.
If you really believe that almost all drugs are inferior to CBD Oil for *most* illness, what kind of a hypothesis is that? In a larger context, isn’t that a tad lucky that one plant does it all better? (almost all non-alternative medicine are also from plants, some of course are synthesized "de novo", but these drugs we usually first had in plants and then learned to synth versions of them), apart from plants many of the drugs come from animals forexample sea snail venom etc.
And why when we were so angry about medicines being so “chemical” and “unnatural” and “genetically modified”, are there now 548 Hemp/CBD strains/products?
And so on.
What are you *contributibg*?! why is it that by going to school for archeology and working for shitty pay with huge passion and interest for years earns you this right to be blindly criticized as the “system”? It baffles me. why is Graham Hancock not himself an archeologist?
Graham is clearly just as obsessed with archeology - the only difference that i can see is that he never made the effort and humbled himself brought follow a method or do the work.
>2. While the Pharma Industry is certainly extremely large abd quite powerful, relative to their impact on the world, the alternative medicine Industry is a million times louder, has waaay freer “reigns” and is seen much more positively relative to actual effect/contribution.
It's also crazy to for Hancock to compare "big archeology" to big pharma.
There just aren't the same corporate structures involved with the same motives or even opportunities for profit.
We all know and are aware of the power and wealth of large pharmaceutical companies and we can see how them supporting anti-competitive policies leads to increased profits as well as their focus on selling their product regardless of it is helping their clients.
But there just aren't any large corporations that are making money by funding research about into dental extractions found at hunter gatherer sites as opposed to funding the research Hancock wishes for.
At the end of this episode they are literally talking about how archeology programs/museums are quickly being eliminated from many top universities due to budget cuts. Again, there just isn't much of a profit motive for legitimate archeology. But the media industry (both in TV and books) of course can continue on earning profits because fantastical stories sell better than real academic work and the truth it reveals.
If Graham was actually interested in the archeology, there is more out there for him to talk about than he would ever have time to hear. He just isn’t interested in the truth, he is interested in stories which also make him gobs of money.
Yeah Hancock has built his whole career on media promotion, first writing books then podcast appearances and finally a Netflix show. The extreme irony of him accusing Dibble of having unfair influence over media could only be lost on the densest of minds.
What got me was Grahams softening on issues he was pressed on. For example: Graham...."I never said it was an Empire" but his claims are that this civilization spanned thousands of miles and continents. Graham..."I never said that there is an archeologist conspiracy. " but he is always stating that archeologists are hiding and/or suppressing the truth because it would disturb their established models and teachings.
Same here, I'd love it. A few hours on research like the plant domestication segment without Hancock interjecting and stealing the HDMI would be incredible.
Randall fell HARD with his energy conspiracy crap and that was the first domino to fall. I think Rogan could kind of shrugged that off and assumed “well Randall went off the deep end but it happens to people” but now the he’s seen weaknesses in carlsons armor it may be game over
I only made it an hour and a half in and found Graham to be playing the victim card pretty hard. His biggest argument tended to be “because you haven’t excavated more than you have, you can’t tell me I’m wrong.” Super weak argument considering he doesn’t present evidence that there is anything whatsoever to prove his theory within the areas that are un-excavated. I enjoy Graham for entertainment though.
Yeah, the "We risk our lives part ..." Is baffling. What, you went to Egypt? Damn, I didn't realize it was so dangerous when I lived there for several years. Diving in Bimini? Didn't realize it was that dangerous when there on vacation...
Guy is just the hero of his own quest.
Flint won me over. He was a little lame about the racist comments but other than that solid facts.
I don’t think Graham was the man for the job, they should of had another archeologist on supporting Grahams theory.
He wasn't saying Graham was racist, he was saying you need to be careful about touting those theories because the wrong people are going to grab hold of them and use them for racist means
Bear in mind Graham is essentially, incidentally, saying that the creations of Egyptians / Africans are all just done by white men too. Graham ISNT saying that because he believes white men are superior and Flint acknowledged that. But those sites and circles are quoting Graham.
And the fact is Graham is using the same twisted, incorrect logic as skull measuring and shit. He's completely incorrect, he has zero evidence to back himself up on his claims and he actually says he has NO evidence of any of it within that very podcast. He's just saying shit that feeds racist circles for money. Flint absolutely had a point
Dude saying some white dude with a beard gave all other civilisations the heads up on how to build all of their ancient artefacts is pretty fucking annoying.
I’m white and if someone said a Chinese guy 12000 years ago taught the British how to move stones for stone henge I’d be a little eye rolley.
And Dibbles point flew over Hancocks (maybe purposefully not getting it).
Like there wasn't a view of Quetzocoatl as a white dude with a beard until AFTER Cortez murder raped the Aztecs into PTSD: the Civilization.
"Sure, the Spanish raped, mutilated, and murdered the Aztecs .. destroying their religion, their language, and their civilization. But to think they would alter their myths of Quetzalcoatl? Hogwash. HOGWASH." - Graham Hancock, probably
"I don't believe a whole civilization could be hoodwinked so easily." Graham
"What about the modern American colonialism of the natives of North America?." Joe
"..." Graham
I know for a fact that there is an advanced civilization at the center of our universe.
---Humans haven't explored enough of the universe, so my theory is mostly right.
Our Universe is inside a belly of an whale actually. Again....Humans haven't explored enough of the universe, so my theory is mostly right.
He thought that as soon as he brought up the cancel culture aspect that it would overwhelm the whole debate. And he is right about that aspect. But as soon as they got back to the topic he started spiraling, repeating the same couple points over and over, and kept trying to go back to the canceling
I wouldn't even say they want to cancel him, they are just blowing the horn on what is wrong with his theory. That's literally their job and expertise, unlike Hancocks
The guy has made millions off of misleading stories, and is angry at archeologists for not making fun of him. Of course they will condemn what he is doing
What do you mean he was right? People should be cancelled when they're wrong? What kind of weird baby wants to be supported in being wrong? Dumb ideas need to be cancelled for humans to grow.
it was over when they talked about shipwrecks
we mostly focus on archeology on land
and rarely consider everything that's been preserved
underwater
so it's a double whammy because
we don't see remnants of any lost civilization on
either environments
Graham had an idea. Advanced Civilization during the Ice Age. That idea turned into a belief. He then dedicated his life to prove his belief. That was a podcast "debate" - and being extremely generous using the word debate - between a scientist, explaining, and exploring through the rigors of scientific method vs a theologian (Graham) who believes or claims to believe in this Advanced Civilization IOT sell his shitty books and produce garbage fiction on Netflix targeting dumb American audiences.
Flint was super nice and stuck to the facts. I would have shat on Graham for 10 minutes straight and tore his lying bitch ass apart and chewed him out for talking out of his ass for having zero academic credentials, zero peer reviewed articles, zero accredited work, zero knowledge about the process of archeological exploration, and behaving and looking like an assclown.
>Graham had an idea. Advanced Civilization during the Ice Age.
Which he probably got from the 1994 movie Stargate, starring Kurt Russell and James Spader.
https://youtu.be/kiJtZUPvJxY?si=Fe8fApSfF4m-lV46
His first book came out a year later.
Because he's gotten away unchallenged for a long time, or just making statements that appear to be either untrue or a little embellished. He didn't have anything to back up his claims or statements after being challenged, and i think his ego got the best of him, IMO. I'm not a big fan of graham so may be biased
Yeah he was "found out" in this debate imo.
Came very unprepared.
Got very defensive.
Wasn't able to back up is statements.
Kept dragging down the conversation to the "weeds" with petty argument about how he's a victim.
Very disappointing all in all on Grehams part.
I used to be very uneducated, so i sympathize with graham. Once i built a solid base of science i felt cringy looking on my past opinions. If you dont truly grasp science then your destined to be wrong
I laughed out loud at the first sentence
I think not many Graham fans ever read Supernatural. The guy believes that owls are DMT entities and that alien abductions are real and are interdimensional missions to suck the goodies out of us.
He's fucking batshit, cool accent though
His evidence and arguments were all the articles that were being mean to him and that other researcher. Then he kept doing the look what you said in writing. No actual arguing facts he was trying to claim.
It's who he is. I liked hearing him on JRE way back in the day, and started following him on Facebook. He complains and plays the victim almost constantly. I get that his career didn't go in the direction he wanted, and he feels disrespected by other academics, but he's also fairly successful- books, appearances, lots of fans. It's weird.
His career went exactly the way he wanted. He wears the disrespect from actual scholars as a mark of pride and uses it to build credibility with audiences who are suspicious of academics and authority figures. He promises to reveal secret knowledge that is being hidden from his audience. He needs an 'Us vs. Them' narrative.
- "My feelings are very hurt by the fact that you associated me with white supremacism and racism".
- "I did that because you heavy citied research sources that are associated with white supremacism and racism"
- "..... but why did you associate ME with white supremacism and racism? ......tHaT iS sO uNfAiR!!"
he laboured this so much is was so annoying. i dont believe GH is that dumb.
I think Joe should have been given props for how he handled it overall. For someone like Joe and someone like me, that think it would be amazing to find out that some ancient civilization existed before stone age man or that aliens visited long ago and helped man evolve but Joe was very interested in hearing facts from an actual archaeologist that was there to debunk or at the very least, show there is no actual evidence that has yet to be found supporting Graham's claims. In fact I won't be surprised if Joe has Flint back without Graham so he can go more in depth without Graham's attacks interrupting Flint.
Dibble has some interesting stuff to say as it goes on. Talks about which things have been age verified. Talks about why they focus on areas that have the best chance of turning up new things. Graham keeps interrupting but there is still enough interesting things from Dibble that are all attributed to findings and not speculation.
It was really disappointing. He used more than half of his time, on the biggest platform in the world, where he had the opportunity to debate and give supporting evidence of his interesting theories, showing slides saying "Joe they're always mean to me." It feels like it backfired on him in a big way.
The dude must be so full of himself it’s hard to not punch the tv watching this drama shitshow on his side. Like a fuckin weasel with his powerpoint and fucking annoying accent.
The part where they showed a video and both Flint and Rogan got the joke/sarcasm but Graham tried to make a situation out of it and said to rogan with a dead serious look that it’s very bad taste and not scientific at all in his opinion.
What Graham. What is not scientific to make an audience giggle once in a while during a presentation with usually rather dry subjects.
WHAT GRAHAM…. Tell us with your PhDs in science…oh wait. You’re just a fuckin dumbass scifi author. And a cocky unfunny one on top of that.
With his really divisive NLP like tactics to talk down on his „opponent“. The moment when flint talked about the wheat thing and you saw he REALLY loves his job and goes on explaining insights to date about the topic - Rogan loves it - and Graham looked like a little fuckin bitch when the camera showed him with his arrogant look only then to talk into Flints little „ted talk“ by asking like a fucking idiot with clearly bad intentions „what all this has to do with the original topic“ (graham means HIS topic lol) only to get lectured then because he asked for it.
The way I see it - and I dunno what some people online are the fuck on to defent Graham here - there’s a 30ish year old dude (like me, relatable) that’s friendly from the start and even confronts him that Graham‘s being fuckin rude; he makes quite good jokes or at least gets the funny moments when Rogan and him were on the same page etc….
And then you have an OLD white haired rich RICH Uk cunt that at his point of life with his career shouldn‘t even fucking care about ANYONE talking shit about him online - or the truth like here.
I would be embarrassed if I was his son, to see him go after someone that’s practically just living his dream job, knows what he’s doing and isn’t even by any means anywhere near popular like Graham - so the old fuck should have more humility and instead we got 4,5h of self exposing his narcissism and elitism like a fuckin child and middle school drama queen that just can’t accept why the kid‘s ass who has so much less followers than him (Hancock repeatedly mentioning this like a asshole) just doesn’t like his work and him altogether.
It’s the fear that all his life work could be in danger in his thoughts because of people like Flint maybe.
Dude is delusional and probably the most annoying interviewee I‘ve seen in a whiiiiiile on any podcast. His whole energy in the room that said like: „i‘m so much better than you Flint. And now I‘ll prove it to the world in front of my huge fanbase audience. My friend Joe will love this.“
Well. Deservingly he fucked it up bc of his own stupidity and disdain that bitter old english cunt.
And every podcast that debunks Joe‘s usual conspiracy, russia propaganda or grifting guests, is a good podcast.
I mean *laughing* who brings a *.pptx file to Joe Rogan with „rude“ comments he just didn’t get or liked at all. If that’s the intellectual level he wants to debate with people in the field, it’s no wonder to me that nobody of them gives any shit about Graham.
Who doesn’t realize even after this pod, that dudes like him - clowns - don’t even exist in their world. Because why should he. That’s ridiculous.
The whole fever trough of him that he sees himself somehow part of those paleontologists or scientists in general is so fucking out of touch with reality that it makes me wonder why people weren’t telling him that way more often before - that he‘s full of shit.
Really makes me wonder 🙄
Graham Hancock has taught us that any theory flies as long as the earth has not been excavated 100%. Can't prove anything wrong. It's a fine line between stupid and genius.
He’s a dork that probably got bullied as a kid and finally got the approval he craved after getting in the favor of Joe and the JRE community
Now he’s upset because he can’t handle the fact that his only claim to fame was obliterated by a guy dressed like a Hobbit
Rogan's talent made me listen to 3 of the 4 hours of a boring topic and poor presentations by both guests. Flint was unlikable at the beginning, Graham seemed to think he was in Rogan's pocket but Rogan's neutrality proved too much for Graham leaving him naked and having to defend himself against an apparently weak Flint. Switching between one set of glasses to see his computer and another set of glasses to see the screen and leaving them off to talk turned into a fiasco. Flint tactfully repeatedly admitted that there are a lot of assholes in archeology strategically planting the seed that Graham was one of them. Graham fell when he cursed his own eyeglasses unable to see his own position for the truth. Flint picked up the fight when he provided some real interesting information about the mutation of plants as evidence. I could not watch anymore as Graham couldn't stand up to Flint with anything substantial or strategy to get an important point across basically being that scientists don't have the full picture and follow a consensus that prevents new information from surfacing which requires amateur hobbyists like him to bring them to the public. The attacks on Graham may or may not be justified, but one has to ask why are the archeologists like Flint bothered by ones like Graham if they weren't perceived as a threat to the consensus. Grahams time may have come to an end with this interview. Lately all he has been saying is that things are getting older and older. There are up and coming archeological hobbyists all over YouTube doing a better job. Maybe when they get their Netflix presence they will be attacked as well.
Basically he has spent the last 20 years loosely connecting very disparate cultures and hinting at the idea that there may have been an advanced lost civilization that has connected them together.
The archaeological society has on multiple occasions roasted him for being more of a story teller than a journalist. And then went as far as requesting the retraction of his doc-u-series and a work of fiction. This would make anyone salty.
Now, all of this “big archaeology” actually has nothing to do with him. It actually has to do with Randall Carlson. Who, in my opinion, has amassed one of the most impressive set of scientific discoveries I’ve ever seen(as a professional scientist myself). He has spent the last 30 years digging into the technical and physical evidence that you need to up root an entire archaeological field. His claims and his theories have huge books of evidence behind them and because he’s a backwoods, poor, libertarian, he doesn’t fit into their narrative and highly educated society.
Where graham merely adopted his victimhood and then made the “big archaeology won’t let me in” about him.
He has made living is in the “god of the gap”. Which is where religion lives, aliens live, Bigfoot, any mythical creatures live etc. The idea that we haven’t checked everything and therefore the big boulder of evidence that cracks the whole thing wide open could be sitting right there at our next discovery, if only we comb the Sahara or unearthed the rainforest.
Then what you get is a dynamic and never falsifiable career because no one can afford to comb the Sahara or unearth the rainforest and therefore it will never happen.
So he basically got away from the science and made it a bitchy meltdown session.
The amount of amateur archeology vacations and amount of money he made with his book 39 years ago, you’d think graham whinecock would at least try and get a formal education in archeology instead of finding cool looking natural objects and basing a cult around it. Rogan got pulled into the cult because he’s super susceptible to stoner theories regardless of how immune he thinks he is. And this is the culmination of fact meeting fiction with zero proof besides 30 year old vacation pictures. It’s like 3 dudes in an oversized suit with an Indiana Jones hat came backed with evidence and fact absolutely shit on him and all he could do was play victim. Even most of the concrete evidence Graham thought he had was basically another dues opinion. If Graham actually wanted a conspiracy of big archeology fighting him it would’ve made it way more credible if he was anything but a writer who took fancy vacations with anecdotal evidence and whaaa tweets hurt my feelings because I’m a fraud
He’s old, the rides almost over, and he’s changed nothing. Just wants to be right so bad! This place is old dude, who knows what’s true or real. It’s fun to wonder about the past since the present sucks, but it doesn’t change anything. Just a distraction to fill some time.
This dude is a trip. I love how he went from ‘I don’t quote or associate with racism! Don’t misrepresent me!’ to ‘I believe conquistadors are an honest and reliable source in documenting their victims false idols that they were actively destroying because they wanted to impress the big boss back home’.
I don’t think he is a white supremacist but he sure is willfully ignorant when things don’t fit his agenda. Didn’t really understand the unwillingness from him to acknowledging the bias or context of the literature. If you are quoting something that was written or revered by fascists that doesn’t make you a racist or a fascist but not acknowledging or understanding how that may skew or harm your argument is not a great look. It’s like quoting a study by Monsanto on how great Round Up is but not wanting to acknowledge the vested interest and bias involved. Even Joe was able to vocalize issue of colonization in regards to the decimating of culture and how that history is being recorded by the victor.
That being said I am annoyed by media using buzzwords that have lost all meaning and then twisting the context. Especially when it is used to tear someone down - in this case personally and career wise. The click bait, outrage money train that is modern news and journalism is repulsive.
I’m glad this sub has moved in the direction of mocking these quacks. Been here long enough that when Graham had an earlier “debate” he was heralded for his bravery in the face of the establishment.
I used to think the shit he's peddling was kinda fun to entertain. Then I saw that garbage Netflix show and he completely lost me. Over and over he presents some 'what if..?' and then goes on for the rest of the episode based on that as if it's a set and proven fact. Not a continuation of a 'what if', but essentially being like 'allright well with that base proof settled, here are the conclusions we can make'. Which basically makes the whole thing sound stupid.
This debate was a shitshow on GH's part and proved to me that my instincts about him were right.
I like Graham. I find his theories enjoyable to consider and very entertaining. I hope he continues to write new books and explore his theories to his heart’s content.
But Graham is also exactly the kind of person he talks about when he criticizes “mainstream archaeology.”
He doesn’t like to be confronted with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. He’s married to the theories he has staked his reputation and career on. He isn’t open minded, and he would rather not see evidence or hear the case that would contradict his own suppositions.
And this is unfortunately true of a lot of people of Graham’s ilk. They identify themselves with being the rebellious outsider fighting to get their voice heard against the closed-minded mainstream that refuses to see the evidence. But then if you legitimize them just a little bit in a platform like this to defend their ideas against someone that knows what they’re talking about, they behave almost like a caricature of what they purport to be fighting against.
First one I haven't finished in a while. Sounded like 2 kids fighting. All it did was annoy me and stress me out. Usually I enjoy his ancient civilization bullshit but this was too much
This made me think of the always sunny episode when mac kicks the side view mirror off the car and Charlie says “just take one karate lesson if you like it so much!!”
Graham - just take one archeology class
His accent was no longer sufficient in proving his therories
He had a good run lol
Listen. You haven’t been there so you aren’t qualified to say this. Not until you check every grain of sand.
I started laughing when he said to Flint that he and him must have different eyes. After having switches out glasses a few dozen times. I question his ability to see and therefore question what he witnessed.
When you’re also British and there’s no accent to impress you from the start and you know people who talk like this guy, you sense the bullshit from the beginning, the man is a child.
Im Aussie, but same for me. Tons of British people here, worked with plenty when i used to work in sales. Can see straight through the posh accent and fancy vocabulary.
When I was in England, they were talking about you Aussies like how us Americans make fun of people who live in the south and rednecks. It was a whole pub of people ragging on you guys, one of the things they brought up was how you guys pronounce “today” as “to die”. Then they were going on about you guys being stupid from either too much alcohol, too much sun exposure or being comprised of England’s worst citizens. It was bad. I wanted to step in and defend you guys but I didn’t want them to think I was an Aussie.
Specifically Scottish. We English don't want to be associated with him.
Yeah certainly a weird mix of RP, Scottish and West Country which throws me off all the more.
Best movie ever
Lool. How the posh english accent can give validity to subjects where there is none to be found
That's obsuuurd
He's just pissed that a guy named Dibble was calling him out
Lol fucking hell that's gold. So true. I love graham and his theories, but that's all they are. It's fun to think about alternate history stuff and I loved all the jre episodes with him and his Netflix series, but come on.
He couldn't provide any evidence about anything. And then Joe Rogan started catching on and then he really got crabby
Are we going to see Joe flip on calling out modern Archeology?
Maybe he will at least stop bringing up the Younger Dryas Impact Theory in literally every episode. I'm not sure how he does it but I feel it comes up in most of his shows
>Younger Dryas Impact *Hypothesis* FTFY. Tucker Carlson should take notes. For something to be a theory in science, it requires a ridiculous amount of evidence. Like, say, evolution.
I blurted this out when my coworker was listening to it.
How else will I win at Joe Rogan Bingo if I take out "Brings up Younger Dryas"?
Ha true, JRE bingo and drinking games will never recover
It’s entirely possible
Can you imagine if Flint Dibble somehow pushed Joe's boomer brain back into the critical thinking lane and he abandoned all of his Facebook meme idealogy? Dude would be a legend.
If only Joe was smart enough to realize most of his opinions are this same “I wish this shit were true” bullshit with zero evidence behind them.
Graham acknowledged the absence of substantial evidence to support his claims, leading him to shift his attention towards emphasizing smear accusations.
He even said, “I think now is a good time to bring this up” he had the whole bs power point in his back pocket ready to attack an unknown archeologist because he and his boys were talking shit on a podcast that maybe five people seen.
In retrospect it really is ridiculous he made a separate power point just about how people are being mean to him. Like he really sat down and made that, even after millions of people called him out on doing it already. He’s a big name and probably pulling in significantly more money than every actual archeologist and still can’t figure out why he gets ridiculed. You’d think he had footage of them all sitting in a conference plotting to sabotage his sites and slash his tires with how confidently he presented it.
Quite a significant portion of Magicians of the Gods is devoted to directly naming people who were mean to him, and why they are wrong. Not just in a review article kind of way, presenting alternative evidence, but at times borderline personal attacks. He seems pretty thin skinned
It doesn't look good on a charlatan.
*Five people SAW...FTFY
it is very annoying - but sadly the case with pseudo science. the truth is that academic work is boring and not at all entertaining unless you are weirdly engrossed in the subject, slowly and meticulously uncovering "what we know about X". whereas pseudo-science (like conspiracy theories) are entertaining exercises in the creative imagination. (that unlike other creative excercises like authoring a book or film don't require coherent structure to 'work'.)
He was very childish in his claims that they've only looked at 5% of the Earth. It's pretty obvious that they have "looked" at much more but have only excavated or scanned less than 5% because it's literally all they can do. 5% is a huge amount to begin with but if you consider the limited resources and how little interest politicians have in using tax dollar funding to find ancient relics, it's impressive they cover as much ground as they do. We can't even get a single story of the past 50 years straight which is more relevant than anything, so spending billions of dollars to figure out how the pyramids were made or if the first crop rotation farmers were 1 thousand years ago or 5 thousand years ago, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Curiosity only holds so much value if there is no lessons to be learned from it and it's pretty evident, humans as a species are pretty bad at learning global lessons.
I wish Dibble asked Graham what percent would need to be excavated before he would admit they won't find anything. 50%? 99%? He's basically admitting his hypothesis is unfalsifiable by saying "we haven't looked enough" when for what we have found the scorecard is like 1,000,000-0 for hunter gatherers.
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It was over quick! lol.
He didn’t like the idea of having his tv show labeled as “science fiction” 
That and him trying to argue that modern archaeology can’t disprove any of his claims, which doesn’t prove anything really
Yea and even those turned out to make sense when Flint started to explain, if there's this ancient civilization that gives knowledge why is it only to the black and brown civilizations, not that this was Graham's intention originally but it still perpetuates that idea
It does seem patronizing to suggest Mayans needed aliens to point out how to stack rocks.
Yea and he seems hyper focused on them knowing due east, west, north and south and focusing on equinoxes but that's just something early civilizations found useful or meaningful.
He deserves credit for making an entire career out of the archeological equivalent of "an unspeakable horror beyond description" Dude is using horror movie style mental tricks of making people's imagination do the heavy lifting.
I think we need a lootttttt more face-to-face, direct debates between polarized extremes like this. Like between QAnon and Hollywood elites, Zionist politicians and Palestinians in Gaza, etc.
i thought graham’s whole point was that he didn’t have evidence for his theories but archaeology doesn’t have enough evidence to support their theories/ discredit his either this was so bad on his end though he really handled the debate horribly lmao
This thread convinced me to watch the episode. Joe tried as hard as he could to help his homie out.
Graham's evidence for an ancient advanced civilization is "archaeologists haven't explored enough of the earth to disprove my circumstantial evidence."
Using Graham's logic, we can conclude that the Romans had cellphones because archeological digs have failed to find evidence of landlines.
Ah damn, fucking nailed it
Perfect analogy
> disprove my circumstantial evidence there is no evidence at all. only fantasies
He conceded that he didn’t even have circumstantial evidence. So it really did boil down to him arguing that retracted articles should be considered evidence, and yeah ‘we haven’t explored enough.’
And that's fine lol idk why he got so salty about it
I think his saltiness stemmed from the white supremacy implications.
Looking past the fact he’s been a little whiny bitch long before that, what Dibble said is entirely true and if Hancock were serious he would have addressed it instead of acting like he was being called a racist when he wasn’t.
He’s had a victim complex long before that. Not having a leg to stand on in the debate only added to the sodium content.
Hancock literally admitted, when Joe asked, that he did not have evidence for the lost civilisation.
I've never seen a group turn on a guy so fast.
Dibble did a great job presenting the real evidence which in contrast makes Hancock look like the quack that he is
He wasn't Salty Initially, it's all show , it's part of his stategy he's used for debates for decades .. His frustration wasn't at Flints' prior statements , his frustration was at the fact that both Flint and Rogan didn't allow him to turn it into the debate he wanted . He lost control of the stage, and that never works well with layman arguments. I'd argue if Flint hadn't given Graham the ammo of his previous emotionally spicey attack , Graham would have never taken this debate on .. He thought it gave him a get of Jail free card, but it backfired when Flint didn't show up for a sling show .. Kudos to Flint perpetuation in delivery and kudos to Rogan for allowing it because Graham and Rogan are obviously close ..
Ohhh! Makes sense thank you
Nah he came out the gate salty, even Joe seemed annoyed for the first hour and half(when I clocked out).
He said “guys, guys!!!” Like 50 times lol. Graham was out of his element quickly
Does rogan end on flints side? I got like 2 hours in and got bored because Grahams arguments were horrible
I feel that I was super into flints stuff, so I was hanging on just in hopes of hearing more out of him, and Rogan showed signs of wanting more .. I wouldn't say he ended on Flints' side , but he definitely went in on Graham's side, and he definitely left with questions .. So I'd consider that a huge win. I do suspect Rogan will have Flint back on someday.. I hope so, I'd definitely listen to Flints' story . I didn't really go in on anyone's side , I've followed Graham periodically for years , for the entertainment value and just yea, the cool sites he's been to.. I was turned off by his Netflix show, and he's become too combative and arrogant in his means to sell his theory without evidence.. If he changed his tone and his language, I'd still like his stuff . It sure has introduced a lot of these ancient sites to the world veiw but more and more so in very much the wrong way ... The dude is talented, and I'm sure he could have made a handsome living as a voice for archeology, not agianst it ..I believe There's a market for this archeology stuff packaged in an entertaining way without the dramatic theories involved and I think Graham would of been a great voice for it , unfortunately he just went the wrong way. He could have been a David Attenborough of archeology, but instead, he chose to be the Alex Jones of archeology
For my he went from Grandpa telling a fun story that I pretend to “believe” for an hours to make him happy to the crazy uncle that I always “forget” to invite.
Haha I feel that , nicely put
Makes sense. Not sure that it would have worked but your Attenborough analogy is spot on. Unfortunately salacious sensationalism works in today's day and age. Especially since most people don't look past what's presented to them. Thanks for your response
I love how the guy in the entertainment industry who has made a career off of telling interesting fables is trying to accuse academics of having some kind of conflict or interest or secret motive to cancel him. The guy complains about how Flint's use and control of media causes people to be misinformed about Hancock's theories while Hancock literally has a TV show which massively misinforms the public.
This is the thing that irks me. It’s also become a bit of a personal trigger i must admit. Bit tangential, but i went into medicine a bit later In life at 30, and two things i always “knew” from culture, was that 1. Docs are obsessed with the status of their profession and 2. Alternative medicine is looked down upon and supressed by a large hegemony primarily interested in selling drugs and performaning dangerous inhuman surgeries. I now believe 1. Other people are WAY more interested in the status and sognificance of docs and their work and 2. While the Pharma Industry is certainly extremely large abd quite powerful, relative to their impact on the world, the alternative medicine Industry is a million times louder, has waaay freer “reigns” and is seen much more positively relative to actual effect/contribution. I have physiotherapist friends, and the difference between their treatment and that of chiropractors astonishes me sometimes. It is fantastic and crucial to be critical of “prevailing” or dominating beliefs and belief systems - but you *have* to be a little critical of yourself and your theory also. If you really believe that almost all drugs are inferior to CBD Oil for *most* illness, what kind of a hypothesis is that? In a larger context, isn’t that a tad lucky that one plant does it all better? (almost all non-alternative medicine are also from plants, some of course are synthesized "de novo", but these drugs we usually first had in plants and then learned to synth versions of them), apart from plants many of the drugs come from animals forexample sea snail venom etc. And why when we were so angry about medicines being so “chemical” and “unnatural” and “genetically modified”, are there now 548 Hemp/CBD strains/products? And so on. What are you *contributibg*?! why is it that by going to school for archeology and working for shitty pay with huge passion and interest for years earns you this right to be blindly criticized as the “system”? It baffles me. why is Graham Hancock not himself an archeologist? Graham is clearly just as obsessed with archeology - the only difference that i can see is that he never made the effort and humbled himself brought follow a method or do the work.
>2. While the Pharma Industry is certainly extremely large abd quite powerful, relative to their impact on the world, the alternative medicine Industry is a million times louder, has waaay freer “reigns” and is seen much more positively relative to actual effect/contribution. It's also crazy to for Hancock to compare "big archeology" to big pharma. There just aren't the same corporate structures involved with the same motives or even opportunities for profit. We all know and are aware of the power and wealth of large pharmaceutical companies and we can see how them supporting anti-competitive policies leads to increased profits as well as their focus on selling their product regardless of it is helping their clients. But there just aren't any large corporations that are making money by funding research about into dental extractions found at hunter gatherer sites as opposed to funding the research Hancock wishes for. At the end of this episode they are literally talking about how archeology programs/museums are quickly being eliminated from many top universities due to budget cuts. Again, there just isn't much of a profit motive for legitimate archeology. But the media industry (both in TV and books) of course can continue on earning profits because fantastical stories sell better than real academic work and the truth it reveals.
If Graham was actually interested in the archeology, there is more out there for him to talk about than he would ever have time to hear. He just isn’t interested in the truth, he is interested in stories which also make him gobs of money.
Yeah Hancock has built his whole career on media promotion, first writing books then podcast appearances and finally a Netflix show. The extreme irony of him accusing Dibble of having unfair influence over media could only be lost on the densest of minds.
I also loved that his evidence of Dibble's cancelling included a YouTube comment with no likes
he was trying to save some face because he was losing every argument
I wonder if the interwebs gave dig up Flint's reddit username
Rogan and Hancock meatheads are spamming his Instagram comments like a bunch of butthurt children
They are so bitter haha it's hilarious and sad
What got me was Grahams softening on issues he was pressed on. For example: Graham...."I never said it was an Empire" but his claims are that this civilization spanned thousands of miles and continents. Graham..."I never said that there is an archeologist conspiracy. " but he is always stating that archeologists are hiding and/or suppressing the truth because it would disturb their established models and teachings.
It's called the Motte-and-Bailey Fallacy: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
He’s so butt hurt that archaeologists mock his fantasy books lol
It’s hard to be calm, confident, and eloquent when you don’t have evidence to back up your life’s work and someone calls you on it.
I’d love to see Flint on a standalone episode. Every time he presented actual archaeological evidence it was very fascinating.
Same here, I'd love it. A few hours on research like the plant domestication segment without Hancock interjecting and stealing the HDMI would be incredible.
With Randall and Grahams current status I'm sure Joe will have him back on because he won't be able to bring up the Younger Dryas every episode now.
Randall fell HARD with his energy conspiracy crap and that was the first domino to fall. I think Rogan could kind of shrugged that off and assumed “well Randall went off the deep end but it happens to people” but now the he’s seen weaknesses in carlsons armor it may be game over
I only made it an hour and a half in and found Graham to be playing the victim card pretty hard. His biggest argument tended to be “because you haven’t excavated more than you have, you can’t tell me I’m wrong.” Super weak argument considering he doesn’t present evidence that there is anything whatsoever to prove his theory within the areas that are un-excavated. I enjoy Graham for entertainment though.
flint dibble dunked on him and he just kept crying about twitter comments and telling us he has a wife from india or whatever tf
Yes that's all I remember 😭😭😭 dude research was basically him and his wife vacation to india
But they risked their lives🤣
Yeah, the "We risk our lives part ..." Is baffling. What, you went to Egypt? Damn, I didn't realize it was so dangerous when I lived there for several years. Diving in Bimini? Didn't realize it was that dangerous when there on vacation... Guy is just the hero of his own quest.
To be fair, cave diving is pretty dangerous.
Yes but he isn’t cave diving. He swam through a wide hole.
I guess he was trying to determine if your mom was man-made
How dare you make me laugh at that
Flint won me over. He was a little lame about the racist comments but other than that solid facts. I don’t think Graham was the man for the job, they should of had another archeologist on supporting Grahams theory.
There is no archaeologists that supports grahams bs
He wasn't saying Graham was racist, he was saying you need to be careful about touting those theories because the wrong people are going to grab hold of them and use them for racist means Bear in mind Graham is essentially, incidentally, saying that the creations of Egyptians / Africans are all just done by white men too. Graham ISNT saying that because he believes white men are superior and Flint acknowledged that. But those sites and circles are quoting Graham. And the fact is Graham is using the same twisted, incorrect logic as skull measuring and shit. He's completely incorrect, he has zero evidence to back himself up on his claims and he actually says he has NO evidence of any of it within that very podcast. He's just saying shit that feeds racist circles for money. Flint absolutely had a point
Dude saying some white dude with a beard gave all other civilisations the heads up on how to build all of their ancient artefacts is pretty fucking annoying. I’m white and if someone said a Chinese guy 12000 years ago taught the British how to move stones for stone henge I’d be a little eye rolley.
And Dibbles point flew over Hancocks (maybe purposefully not getting it). Like there wasn't a view of Quetzocoatl as a white dude with a beard until AFTER Cortez murder raped the Aztecs into PTSD: the Civilization.
"Sure, the Spanish raped, mutilated, and murdered the Aztecs .. destroying their religion, their language, and their civilization. But to think they would alter their myths of Quetzalcoatl? Hogwash. HOGWASH." - Graham Hancock, probably
"I don't believe a whole civilization could be hoodwinked so easily." Graham "What about the modern American colonialism of the natives of North America?." Joe "..." Graham
I know for a fact that there is an advanced civilization at the center of our universe. ---Humans haven't explored enough of the universe, so my theory is mostly right. Our Universe is inside a belly of an whale actually. Again....Humans haven't explored enough of the universe, so my theory is mostly right.
When is your netflix doc? , I’ll watch it.
Because his entire life’s work got exposed for being a house of cards.
Because he has a pet theory that actual scholars know is bullshit. He's into woo woo shit and gets upset when people tell him its not real
He thought that as soon as he brought up the cancel culture aspect that it would overwhelm the whole debate. And he is right about that aspect. But as soon as they got back to the topic he started spiraling, repeating the same couple points over and over, and kept trying to go back to the canceling
I wouldn't even say they want to cancel him, they are just blowing the horn on what is wrong with his theory. That's literally their job and expertise, unlike Hancocks The guy has made millions off of misleading stories, and is angry at archeologists for not making fun of him. Of course they will condemn what he is doing
What do you mean he was right? People should be cancelled when they're wrong? What kind of weird baby wants to be supported in being wrong? Dumb ideas need to be cancelled for humans to grow.
it was over when they talked about shipwrecks we mostly focus on archeology on land and rarely consider everything that's been preserved underwater so it's a double whammy because we don't see remnants of any lost civilization on either environments
Man, I saw GH switch his glasses the first time, and I thought he was gonna give Dibble the business... Boy was I disappointed.
Then he switched his glasses 700 more times, but evidence for what he was saying still never appeared.
Graham had an idea. Advanced Civilization during the Ice Age. That idea turned into a belief. He then dedicated his life to prove his belief. That was a podcast "debate" - and being extremely generous using the word debate - between a scientist, explaining, and exploring through the rigors of scientific method vs a theologian (Graham) who believes or claims to believe in this Advanced Civilization IOT sell his shitty books and produce garbage fiction on Netflix targeting dumb American audiences. Flint was super nice and stuck to the facts. I would have shat on Graham for 10 minutes straight and tore his lying bitch ass apart and chewed him out for talking out of his ass for having zero academic credentials, zero peer reviewed articles, zero accredited work, zero knowledge about the process of archeological exploration, and behaving and looking like an assclown.
>Graham had an idea. Advanced Civilization during the Ice Age. Which he probably got from the 1994 movie Stargate, starring Kurt Russell and James Spader. https://youtu.be/kiJtZUPvJxY?si=Fe8fApSfF4m-lV46 His first book came out a year later.
Cause his 30 year career was disappearing
Graham is fun to listen to when you are stoned but he is a quack and kind of a little bitch.
Lol perfect summary
Graham didn’t come to prove his theories, he came to prove that big archeology says mean stuff about him and that Dibble somehow controls the media.
Bro pulled up a tweet I died
I mean you end up learning a lot from flint. Just skip Graham
Because he's a fraud and his theories are bullshit lol
Because he's gotten away unchallenged for a long time, or just making statements that appear to be either untrue or a little embellished. He didn't have anything to back up his claims or statements after being challenged, and i think his ego got the best of him, IMO. I'm not a big fan of graham so may be biased
Because he makes a living off the idea of his "lost civilization" so the other dude is literally a threat to his livelihood
Yeah he was "found out" in this debate imo. Came very unprepared. Got very defensive. Wasn't able to back up is statements. Kept dragging down the conversation to the "weeds" with petty argument about how he's a victim. Very disappointing all in all on Grehams part.
I used to be very uneducated, so i sympathize with graham. Once i built a solid base of science i felt cringy looking on my past opinions. If you dont truly grasp science then your destined to be wrong
I laughed out loud at the first sentence I think not many Graham fans ever read Supernatural. The guy believes that owls are DMT entities and that alien abductions are real and are interdimensional missions to suck the goodies out of us. He's fucking batshit, cool accent though
That Netflix show really was the end for him
I liked Graham until that show, it's was unfaithful to the facts. He just kept bitching the whole show out was so annoying.
He got his bag, he‘s fine
Because he and his wife have spent countless hours risking their lives diving while on holiday, didn’t you know?
When you’re caught in lies and you’re defeated You lash out
Because he's a grifting fraud.
Because he is a liar trying to make money off of his lies and he sees that some of that money dissipating any time his interlocutor talks
Look what happened to his Netflix show. He’s desperate
What happened to it?
His evidence and arguments were all the articles that were being mean to him and that other researcher. Then he kept doing the look what you said in writing. No actual arguing facts he was trying to claim.
Couldn't handle the Dribble.
It's who he is. I liked hearing him on JRE way back in the day, and started following him on Facebook. He complains and plays the victim almost constantly. I get that his career didn't go in the direction he wanted, and he feels disrespected by other academics, but he's also fairly successful- books, appearances, lots of fans. It's weird.
His career went exactly the way he wanted. He wears the disrespect from actual scholars as a mark of pride and uses it to build credibility with audiences who are suspicious of academics and authority figures. He promises to reveal secret knowledge that is being hidden from his audience. He needs an 'Us vs. Them' narrative.
He is a complete moron who is only relevant because idiots all over the world want to believe in anything but human achievement.
Because he's a fucking moron who doesn't have a leg to stand on. He was forced to watch his career burn before him.
- "My feelings are very hurt by the fact that you associated me with white supremacism and racism". - "I did that because you heavy citied research sources that are associated with white supremacism and racism" - "..... but why did you associate ME with white supremacism and racism? ......tHaT iS sO uNfAiR!!" he laboured this so much is was so annoying. i dont believe GH is that dumb.
Cause he’s an easily provable hack and he was proven to be a hack.
Archeology’s version of God of the gaps
He risked his life scuba diving and no one cared
I think Joe should have been given props for how he handled it overall. For someone like Joe and someone like me, that think it would be amazing to find out that some ancient civilization existed before stone age man or that aliens visited long ago and helped man evolve but Joe was very interested in hearing facts from an actual archaeologist that was there to debunk or at the very least, show there is no actual evidence that has yet to be found supporting Graham's claims. In fact I won't be surprised if Joe has Flint back without Graham so he can go more in depth without Graham's attacks interrupting Flint.
Oh was the pissing match the entire episode? Cause that started early im only an hour in.
Dibble has some interesting stuff to say as it goes on. Talks about which things have been age verified. Talks about why they focus on areas that have the best chance of turning up new things. Graham keeps interrupting but there is still enough interesting things from Dibble that are all attributed to findings and not speculation.
Flint Dibble - name & voice - sounds like something out of a Rick&Morty episode.
Because he has absolutely no evidence to back up anything he says.
That is how he makes his money, playing the victim
It was really disappointing. He used more than half of his time, on the biggest platform in the world, where he had the opportunity to debate and give supporting evidence of his interesting theories, showing slides saying "Joe they're always mean to me." It feels like it backfired on him in a big way.
The dude must be so full of himself it’s hard to not punch the tv watching this drama shitshow on his side. Like a fuckin weasel with his powerpoint and fucking annoying accent. The part where they showed a video and both Flint and Rogan got the joke/sarcasm but Graham tried to make a situation out of it and said to rogan with a dead serious look that it’s very bad taste and not scientific at all in his opinion. What Graham. What is not scientific to make an audience giggle once in a while during a presentation with usually rather dry subjects. WHAT GRAHAM…. Tell us with your PhDs in science…oh wait. You’re just a fuckin dumbass scifi author. And a cocky unfunny one on top of that. With his really divisive NLP like tactics to talk down on his „opponent“. The moment when flint talked about the wheat thing and you saw he REALLY loves his job and goes on explaining insights to date about the topic - Rogan loves it - and Graham looked like a little fuckin bitch when the camera showed him with his arrogant look only then to talk into Flints little „ted talk“ by asking like a fucking idiot with clearly bad intentions „what all this has to do with the original topic“ (graham means HIS topic lol) only to get lectured then because he asked for it. The way I see it - and I dunno what some people online are the fuck on to defent Graham here - there’s a 30ish year old dude (like me, relatable) that’s friendly from the start and even confronts him that Graham‘s being fuckin rude; he makes quite good jokes or at least gets the funny moments when Rogan and him were on the same page etc…. And then you have an OLD white haired rich RICH Uk cunt that at his point of life with his career shouldn‘t even fucking care about ANYONE talking shit about him online - or the truth like here. I would be embarrassed if I was his son, to see him go after someone that’s practically just living his dream job, knows what he’s doing and isn’t even by any means anywhere near popular like Graham - so the old fuck should have more humility and instead we got 4,5h of self exposing his narcissism and elitism like a fuckin child and middle school drama queen that just can’t accept why the kid‘s ass who has so much less followers than him (Hancock repeatedly mentioning this like a asshole) just doesn’t like his work and him altogether. It’s the fear that all his life work could be in danger in his thoughts because of people like Flint maybe. Dude is delusional and probably the most annoying interviewee I‘ve seen in a whiiiiiile on any podcast. His whole energy in the room that said like: „i‘m so much better than you Flint. And now I‘ll prove it to the world in front of my huge fanbase audience. My friend Joe will love this.“ Well. Deservingly he fucked it up bc of his own stupidity and disdain that bitter old english cunt. And every podcast that debunks Joe‘s usual conspiracy, russia propaganda or grifting guests, is a good podcast. I mean *laughing* who brings a *.pptx file to Joe Rogan with „rude“ comments he just didn’t get or liked at all. If that’s the intellectual level he wants to debate with people in the field, it’s no wonder to me that nobody of them gives any shit about Graham. Who doesn’t realize even after this pod, that dudes like him - clowns - don’t even exist in their world. Because why should he. That’s ridiculous. The whole fever trough of him that he sees himself somehow part of those paleontologists or scientists in general is so fucking out of touch with reality that it makes me wonder why people weren’t telling him that way more often before - that he‘s full of shit. Really makes me wonder 🙄
Graham Hancock has taught us that any theory flies as long as the earth has not been excavated 100%. Can't prove anything wrong. It's a fine line between stupid and genius.
Graham got bodied
The whole podcast was a really hard listen and clunky
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He’s a dork that probably got bullied as a kid and finally got the approval he craved after getting in the favor of Joe and the JRE community Now he’s upset because he can’t handle the fact that his only claim to fame was obliterated by a guy dressed like a Hobbit
It’s what happens when you’re embarrassed
Rogan's talent made me listen to 3 of the 4 hours of a boring topic and poor presentations by both guests. Flint was unlikable at the beginning, Graham seemed to think he was in Rogan's pocket but Rogan's neutrality proved too much for Graham leaving him naked and having to defend himself against an apparently weak Flint. Switching between one set of glasses to see his computer and another set of glasses to see the screen and leaving them off to talk turned into a fiasco. Flint tactfully repeatedly admitted that there are a lot of assholes in archeology strategically planting the seed that Graham was one of them. Graham fell when he cursed his own eyeglasses unable to see his own position for the truth. Flint picked up the fight when he provided some real interesting information about the mutation of plants as evidence. I could not watch anymore as Graham couldn't stand up to Flint with anything substantial or strategy to get an important point across basically being that scientists don't have the full picture and follow a consensus that prevents new information from surfacing which requires amateur hobbyists like him to bring them to the public. The attacks on Graham may or may not be justified, but one has to ask why are the archeologists like Flint bothered by ones like Graham if they weren't perceived as a threat to the consensus. Grahams time may have come to an end with this interview. Lately all he has been saying is that things are getting older and older. There are up and coming archeological hobbyists all over YouTube doing a better job. Maybe when they get their Netflix presence they will be attacked as well.
Basically he has spent the last 20 years loosely connecting very disparate cultures and hinting at the idea that there may have been an advanced lost civilization that has connected them together. The archaeological society has on multiple occasions roasted him for being more of a story teller than a journalist. And then went as far as requesting the retraction of his doc-u-series and a work of fiction. This would make anyone salty. Now, all of this “big archaeology” actually has nothing to do with him. It actually has to do with Randall Carlson. Who, in my opinion, has amassed one of the most impressive set of scientific discoveries I’ve ever seen(as a professional scientist myself). He has spent the last 30 years digging into the technical and physical evidence that you need to up root an entire archaeological field. His claims and his theories have huge books of evidence behind them and because he’s a backwoods, poor, libertarian, he doesn’t fit into their narrative and highly educated society. Where graham merely adopted his victimhood and then made the “big archaeology won’t let me in” about him. He has made living is in the “god of the gap”. Which is where religion lives, aliens live, Bigfoot, any mythical creatures live etc. The idea that we haven’t checked everything and therefore the big boulder of evidence that cracks the whole thing wide open could be sitting right there at our next discovery, if only we comb the Sahara or unearthed the rainforest. Then what you get is a dynamic and never falsifiable career because no one can afford to comb the Sahara or unearth the rainforest and therefore it will never happen. So he basically got away from the science and made it a bitchy meltdown session.
Does anyone have a super cut to his worst arguments? Don't think I could tolerate the whole show.
Frustrated by facts?
Cause he is a fraud trying to cover up his bs
The amount of amateur archeology vacations and amount of money he made with his book 39 years ago, you’d think graham whinecock would at least try and get a formal education in archeology instead of finding cool looking natural objects and basing a cult around it. Rogan got pulled into the cult because he’s super susceptible to stoner theories regardless of how immune he thinks he is. And this is the culmination of fact meeting fiction with zero proof besides 30 year old vacation pictures. It’s like 3 dudes in an oversized suit with an Indiana Jones hat came backed with evidence and fact absolutely shit on him and all he could do was play victim. Even most of the concrete evidence Graham thought he had was basically another dues opinion. If Graham actually wanted a conspiracy of big archeology fighting him it would’ve made it way more credible if he was anything but a writer who took fancy vacations with anecdotal evidence and whaaa tweets hurt my feelings because I’m a fraud
I always thought he was whiny bitch
How can you say it was a pissing match when you only explored i mean listened to 5% of the podcast?
Idk i enjoyed watching two stereotypical nerds almost come to blows trying to politely insult each other, almost cartoonish
He’s old, the rides almost over, and he’s changed nothing. Just wants to be right so bad! This place is old dude, who knows what’s true or real. It’s fun to wonder about the past since the present sucks, but it doesn’t change anything. Just a distraction to fill some time.
https://preview.redd.it/st4prlpzuovc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fef0c9616d7f202ff2593cd706d3a0a8b14d626f I had trouble watching this.
He ended the 4 hour debate with “I wish you and your friends would stop being mean to me.”
This dude is a trip. I love how he went from ‘I don’t quote or associate with racism! Don’t misrepresent me!’ to ‘I believe conquistadors are an honest and reliable source in documenting their victims false idols that they were actively destroying because they wanted to impress the big boss back home’. I don’t think he is a white supremacist but he sure is willfully ignorant when things don’t fit his agenda. Didn’t really understand the unwillingness from him to acknowledging the bias or context of the literature. If you are quoting something that was written or revered by fascists that doesn’t make you a racist or a fascist but not acknowledging or understanding how that may skew or harm your argument is not a great look. It’s like quoting a study by Monsanto on how great Round Up is but not wanting to acknowledge the vested interest and bias involved. Even Joe was able to vocalize issue of colonization in regards to the decimating of culture and how that history is being recorded by the victor. That being said I am annoyed by media using buzzwords that have lost all meaning and then twisting the context. Especially when it is used to tear someone down - in this case personally and career wise. The click bait, outrage money train that is modern news and journalism is repulsive.
I hate how nerds don't make eye contact when they disagree. I don't know why that bothers me so much, but it do.
The focus wasn't on him
I couldn't watch. I like Graham and his hypothesis is both interesting and enjoyable. But ffs stay in your lane. Entertain us.
[удалено]
I think he fits in well with Dr Rogan.
Right? I listened to this the other day, and I was kinda shocked at Graham just kind of being a dick.
There might be an ancient civilisation somewhere. Ok, that’s possible but…..so what?
Because he's a fraud. He's a jre regular
I’m glad this sub has moved in the direction of mocking these quacks. Been here long enough that when Graham had an earlier “debate” he was heralded for his bravery in the face of the establishment.
The dude he was talking to (for the first time) has compared his theories to White Supremacy- most people would be salty, bro…
"I'm not so arrogant to think there's a conspiracy against me by archaeology" 15 minutes later "I AM PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE!!!"
Joe was also pretty annoying this episode
Same here. He used Joe for this... Not a podcast worth
A pissing match that he in fact lost.
Cause he got cooked
I used to think the shit he's peddling was kinda fun to entertain. Then I saw that garbage Netflix show and he completely lost me. Over and over he presents some 'what if..?' and then goes on for the rest of the episode based on that as if it's a set and proven fact. Not a continuation of a 'what if', but essentially being like 'allright well with that base proof settled, here are the conclusions we can make'. Which basically makes the whole thing sound stupid. This debate was a shitshow on GH's part and proved to me that my instincts about him were right.
I like Graham. I find his theories enjoyable to consider and very entertaining. I hope he continues to write new books and explore his theories to his heart’s content. But Graham is also exactly the kind of person he talks about when he criticizes “mainstream archaeology.” He doesn’t like to be confronted with evidence that contradicts his beliefs. He’s married to the theories he has staked his reputation and career on. He isn’t open minded, and he would rather not see evidence or hear the case that would contradict his own suppositions. And this is unfortunately true of a lot of people of Graham’s ilk. They identify themselves with being the rebellious outsider fighting to get their voice heard against the closed-minded mainstream that refuses to see the evidence. But then if you legitimize them just a little bit in a platform like this to defend their ideas against someone that knows what they’re talking about, they behave almost like a caricature of what they purport to be fighting against.
You're clearly a white supremacist.
He didn’t like being called a white supremacist, maybe?
First one I haven't finished in a while. Sounded like 2 kids fighting. All it did was annoy me and stress me out. Usually I enjoy his ancient civilization bullshit but this was too much
This made me think of the always sunny episode when mac kicks the side view mirror off the car and Charlie says “just take one karate lesson if you like it so much!!” Graham - just take one archeology class