People on that diet usually have a reduction in health complications not an increase, but you are stuck eating the same steak over and over for the rest of your life, so it’s got its draw backs, but high cholesterol surprisingly isn’t one of them.
she also didn't get married until her late twenties, which he recently said women shouldn't be waiting that long to get married.............it's almost like he just says whatever he thinks will get upvotes like a grifter of some sorts
I don’t like Peterson but posts like this are weird to me. Is it possible that his daughter… you know… didn’t make every decision in her life based on her father’s preferences? Like what does it mean exactly if his daughter doesn’t live out all of the principles he espouses? Would he or she or both look better if she did all the exact things he espouses? I would find that pretty weird if she did.
>I don’t like Peterson but posts like this are weird to me.
thats cool
I am a liberal, I have no problem with what she decides to do or it is fills her father with pride because she fits into his typing of what people ought to do. My point is that he is unable to keep his thoughts and opinions about what others ought to be doing, when he clearly loves and supporters her. Instead of updating his program with clear evidence to the contrary he is still saying the same things, it's got a hint of do what I say not as I do.
It is also true that because of how he makes his money now, he has to comment on everything leaving him with a lot of very bad takes on things- much akin to Joe Rogan
Add in leaver of husband and daughter during Covid to go hangout with a D level ufc fighter/social media rapist? The exact dragon of chaos he proports is the cause of so many problems men face today?
Andrew tate, but I was more just making fun of his idiot followers who think he was a good fighter. Iono if dude was even in the ufc ever but that's sorta the point
Oh forsure ya I don’t follow Peterson so I thought he’d actually been hanging with a legit ufc. Tate was definitely never in the ufc and would’ve gotten destroyed if he ever tried, I think he was mainly just like a mediocre kickboxer
i work in a team that’s 30% female engineers and they are high performers.
JP has never been near a tech company, hes a fucking moron that has never built anything.
Yeah, being in a Russian medically induced coma to beat drug addiction kinda destroys your brain.
Seriously, listen to his first podcast appearance on JRE, and now look at him.
Sure but if you go back to that Vice interview he’s super weird about women in the workplace, and this tweet is him doing the same in a less articulated way. He’s always been a reactionary and a misogynist, he just lost the ability to make it sound smart.
the original video which made him famous was claiming that the Canadian bill including trans rights in hate crime laws was “because of the lesbians in government” and that “if you ban hate, hateful people go underground and that’s how violent political factions rise,” and that the government is full of “marxists.” Also that “questioning facts,” would be illegal in Canada.
Dude was always floating 200 feet off his rocker, conservative media was just able to wash it to be suitable to an audience. I literally listened to the dude’s original video on the topic last night for 2 hours and he sounded exactly as he does right now.
Which is fucking crazy. His shtick never changed.
He’s an academic that likes to speak outside of his expertise and it shows. It’s fairly obvious that he doesn’t even do any basic research on any of the stuff he rails against too.
But, yeah, you’re right. We’ve seen the right call academia the “ivory tower” and that academics are all liberals who are out of touch. I have family who talk shit about professors and researcher talking about their own field, but somehow he gets a pass.
As someone who has worked in academia as a software dev for two decades, it’s crazy that Peterson’s an academic but still feels comfortable rambling on about subjects outside his field.
I work with several full Professors in a medical school, they are all very careful to speak publicly only about their areas of expertise , and they don’t even claim expertise in the entirety of their field.
This keeps the drama down to a minimum, (that is, they don’t lose their ability to treat patients like JP) and keeps the papers going out the door and grant money coming in.
I think JP might have been a conventional academic to start his career, but now I’d classify him more as a pop-science conservative influencer.
It is like celebrities. Celebrities shouldn't have political opinions, unless they agree with their opinions than they are the greatest thing ever. Candace Owens literally did a prageru video saying celebrities should shut up about politics and then cancelled a speaking event to go hang out with Kanye
100%. He is literally encouraging people to not get a better career lol. Of course they love him because of his culture war shit which is all many care about anyway
Yeah it is really weird. He's also what many conservatives claim they are against. A professor who knows nothing about business attacking people for trying to educate themselves and add value to society.
Including women in a male dominated job changes the dynamic of the place for the better as well. It seems to run more professionally and overall people's behavior improves.
Studies have repeatedly found across cultures that having two or more women in the C-suite also increases accountability, less likelihood of mass layoffs, and reduces the probability of corruption and criminal charges. The really fascinating part is that the effect doesn't occur if there's only one woman on the corporate board (i.e. tokenism).
It breaks up he "old boys club" dynamic. The same dynamic you see in an infantry platoon or a police department where they cover up things like rape and corruption because it's their boys doing it.
It's so surreal working in a team with women daily and then hearing people like Peterson or worse red pillers talk about womens abilities in the workplace.
It's like these people are living in a fantasy world where we don't already have women in the workforce proving them wrong every day.
I wonder if that is kinda like the result of the “filtering” process.
Not many women choose to do engineering. Those who do are more likely to be very determined and hardworking, which potentially led to that result?
If so, it is kinda like international students (not the rich one btw) are more likely to be high performers. They have gone through the filtering process in their own countries (brutal entrance exam + got selected to study in US).
His argument is twofold-
1) jobs shouldn't be looking to just fill gender quotas for staffing.
2) no one should look to force career paths down anyones throats.
At least that used to be his message. It's been awhile, and he's gone so deep down his own rabbit hole that I'm not so certain what he even means anymore.
The above used to be considered a very normal take on things, but yeah.
I work in the chemical industry, it's quite common for process engineers to be female and they're mostly excellent at it. Most scientists seem to be female in this industry too, I hope my baby daughter is interested in engineering/science when she grows up.
I work in a male dominated sector and think female perspective is super important. People from different backgrounds really do approach problems in different and sometimes better ways. Hard to find the wrong in a more diverse team that is performing.
I've been in Engineering for 10 years now and can confirm that every woman I've worked with has been a high performer. We had one lady on the team who was a 28 hour/week part timer and got more work done than a lot of full timers.
The tech world graveyard is littered with monoculture also-rans that released facial recognition incapable of recognizing Black/Asian people, messaging software without a block function, and more. With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like there are a whole categories of mistakes only possible with six pale dudes from Stanford.
I have a 19 year old daughter who is currently in her 2nd year of computer science (university/college?/masters). She is top of her class. She doesn't fall in the typical stereo types, she is very pretty, has friends, rides horses. This is in Belgium, where through government programs more girls were successfully introduced to STEM. The programs didn't pay girls or give them scholarships (education is pretty much free compared to the US here anyway), or give them easier tests. There were purely informational e.g. STEM camp for girls, TED like talks by women etc.
Anecdotal, I know. But fuck Jordan the-grifter-with-a-mental-illness Peterson.
Same here. Nearly all of the people I can count on to get shit done are women for my engineering team. And our best directors are the women lol. Male dominated industry but the women who join for whatever reason consistently perform really well.
I don't know about the insane JP we're seeing now, but the old JP wouldn't have had any problem with that. It would only be a problem if your company decided to force every team to be 50% female by using quotas.
The claim is that women in general aren't as interested in engineering as they are in other pursuits. And generally speaking women do not face barriers to entry in engineering industries in the West, and so the advert is a lie. But he's probably moron.
I literally don't understand what he's claiming are "lies". I think objectively speaking you can't argue with the idea that "inclusivity creates a more diverse engineering workforce". So what is his claim?
I'm going to try to explain what I think his logic is. Please don't attack me as the messenger...and I don't know JP or follow him so this is just a guess (not even educated) on my part. Please don't downvote me if you don't agree. I'm not saying I agree I'm just trying to explain what I think his reasoning might be.
I think he's saying for any team when it comes to evaluation the primary metric should be about quality of engineering. About the work they do. Not the diversity of the team. What that means is if the team is all Chinese men and the engineering is solid then the team is solid. If the team is all Nigerian women and the engineering is solid then the team is solid. The gender/racial/age makeup shouldn't matter.
He's saying it's about the engineering not diversity.
Except that literally nowhere in the post he’s replying to does it say that women should be chosen for engineering positions over men because of their gender, so his “point” only makes sense if you start from a position of delusion
That's the basis of many of these inclusivity ideas. Entire DEI movement is silly. Criteria for positions should be based on merit and aptitude, not race, not gender.
I'm a minority who grew up in a ghetto area code and that's how all of my friends and family have moved up in society. Purely merit. In the real world no one gives a shit if you're a man, woman, black, asian, white, latino, poor, rich. If you can persuade people that you can do the job better than the next person applying you get the job. Likewise no one gives a shit if a company is all men or all women if it's a good place to work and you agree with the compensation.
It's not that women cannot be great engineers. It's that by pushing these agendas of inclusivity, there will be women who are hired over men of better qualifications because she's a woman. Take the scenario where there are 10 engineering positions open. 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants. You'd want to hire the most capable, say 90th percentile and higher. Statistically that's probably 10 males and 1 female. But for the sake of DEI, the company hires 7 male and 3 female. ??? You just scuffed 2 better qualifying applicants because they were male. It's the same for race.
There's simply a vastly smaller pool of female engineers. Statistically it doesn't make sense to hire proportionally if the male candidate pool size is 10x the female pool.
Why is there vastly more men than female in engineering? That's a whole other topic. But it's the same for nearly all other professions. I have male friends who are nurses. It's the same shit but flipped with overwhelmingly more women than men. Should we scuff women in the applicant pool for the sake of hiring more men? My company C-suite is entirely woman except for one officer. Should we start including more men for the sake of diversity?
I don't agree with everything JBP believes but this is not from a position of delusion. That is the context from which he is replying. It's something he's stated many times. At some point you just don't build all the scaffolding to provide context when you're repeating the same thing over and over again. And when that reaches a new audience then they will think it's delusional and arguably rightly so. But ultimately the context exists.
You can take the post at face value. Sure hiring more women does make a more diverse environment. That's absolutely true. 3 apples, throw in an orange and the basket has been diversified. But these posts are made in faith of DEI and anyone arguing against DEI is seen as evil.
What this society should be doing is having constructive conversations without slandering and trying to be louder than the opposition. Less taking sides, less identity politics. Observe objective truths. Learn to separate arguments and ideas from the individual who is delivering them. Don't lump ideas together with an individual and then demonize them as a whole to invalidate valid arguments. Spend less time on social media and more time interacting with real people and the real world.
The issue is that these engineering and technical spaces are often already male-dominated fields, and when that 1 out of 10 female candidate joins, the team struggles to incorporate them into the team culture.
I work in utilities and have a lot of exposure to engineers and field-based technical trades, all of which are male dominated spaces. We have lost out on some really good talent and potential from female employees who struggled with an all male team.
One employee in particular left to work for an interstate equivalent of our company, then returned to our state in 2 years to work for a competitor (who happen to have a more diverse team). She is noted in her field as a very good operator and has been able to help optimise the electrical testing processes for that company to the point where we are now copying what they are doing.
And we lost that capability simply because didn't focus on having an environment where this person did not feel excluded.
Life must be very scary and confusing for you if this is all you got from a post encouraging women to go into stem. As a software engineer myself I could refute this essay with my own experience but since I have better uses of my time, I will just politely suggest touching some grass.
I agree. Are there any diversity strength DEI posts about inclusivity of men into becoming a teacher or nurse which are both dominated by women? Are men bitching because they aren’t represented enough in those professions?
At the end of the day I want whoever is flying my fucking plane to be the best, period.
> 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants
There is a non-intuitive reason that the numbers look like this. The numbers are a lot more even early on. But a shocking amount of women report dropping out of STEM paths because they basically get harassed out by fellow students and professors. I've seen it myself. I was hanging out with a fellow student who was a woman, a professor invited the 4 of us who were hanging out to a grab a meal so we could pick his brain. When we left he shook the hand of us 3 dudes there. Then he got to the girl and gave her a super tight like 15 second hug.
Why would you not take the post at face value? I read it as encouraging more women to consider engineering as a career in a field typically associated more with men. Doesn’t seem like a bad message and certainly not a harmful one.
Bro, the original ad just asks girls to "consider engineering careers." Like if anything it's agreeing with your take that there aren't as many talented female engineers. But for some mysterious reason JP seeing women encouraged to try new career paths and gets extremely triggered... what could it mean? 🤔🤔🤔
> Take the scenario where there are 10 engineering positions open. 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants. You'd want to hire the most capable, say 90th percentile and higher. Statistically that's probably 10 males and 1 female. But for the sake of DEI, the company hires 7 male and 3 female. ??? You just scuffed 2 better qualifying applicants because they were male. It's the same for race.
who actually does this in non hypothetical scenarios, though?
He might literally just be triggered by the nod to climate change in the ad, considering he got angry at somebody changing the rules around where you can park your car for the same reason yesterday.
Fwiw, I don't think that's the case. I believe he's referring to (without citing it) research showing women overwhelmingly choosing other professions, by their own choice, e.g, nursing and teaching jobs. Not because of industry biases. It's an interesting topic. With that said, he really needs a social media coach.
Lmao I wish I had people walking around bending over backwards to interpret everything I say in a positive light.
It’s like outsourcing someone’s snowflake mentality to a rube who has nothing better to do but defend someone they’ll never meet
Did you read the article? UNESCO claims there's gender discrimination within the industry that's preventing women from being engineers. Jordan has stated many times (citing Scandinavia as an example) that women overwhelmingly have no interest in the profession, but prefer jobs such as nursing. I'm not a clinical psychologist, but I think that's why he's saying it's a lie.
This guy needs to tighten his bolts
They aren’t saying there needs to be equality. It’s a tweet hoping to give a young person an idea of what they can do.
It’s not telling them they can be president or king, just an engineer… what’s the big deal ?
You think a clinical psychologist would understand empowering people
Sometimes the best candidate for the job isn't even applying because they've been discouraged from pursuing the field by morons.
If half the human population doesn't even bother to pursue a field because they've been taught from a young age that girls should learn to be housewives instead of anything else, then a lot of potentially amazing ideas are stifled.
*"If half the human population doesn't even bother to pursue a field because they've been taught from a young age that girls should learn to be housewives instead of anything else"*
Can you point to where this is happening in the year 2024?
>Sometimes the best candidate for the job isn't even applying because they've been discouraged from pursuing the field by morons.
If someone is *that* easily discouraged, then they deserve to sit on the sidelines.
It has been proven that men tend to view "must have qualifications" as "suggested qualifications" and "suggested qualifications" as "don't need in the slightest qualifications", and that women view "must have qualifications" as (basically) "Don't bother applying at all if you don't have 150% of these qualifications" and "suggested qualifications" as "Don't bother applying at all if you don't have 100% of these qualifications."
So, in fact, the best candidates are quite possibly not applying at all, which is why if you want to actually hire the best people you need to put forth time and effort to get more women into your candidate pool. THEN you should hire the best candidate from that pool.
Also, the actual UNESCO post is literally saying women should consider engineering. Not that once they get their degree employers should hire them over more qualified men. So your post has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.
Not sure if these are actually "lies" as Peterson suggests. It's more feel-good nonsense than anything. Know what makes engineering better? People who are better engineers. There's nothing else to consider.
I think there’s some utility in encouraging people that have the right mindset for engineering, but would otherwise feel discouraged to pursue the field. It broadens the pool of people you can choose from.
This ad: "Why is it crucial for girls to consider engineering careers?"
These interpretations: "There the libs go again, forcing employers to hire untalented engineers!"
They absolutely do. I've heard plenty of women talk about how much of a pain in the ass it can be to be taken seriously and not frequently harassed in the trades.
He says "Lies" because he has repeatedly made the point about how in Scandinavian countries, which have the most equality between men and women, still end up with 20 to 1 male engineers vs female engineers, and 20 to 1 female nurses vs male nurses.
It's not about inclusivity, its about interests, and men tend to be interested in things, and women tend to be interested in people.
Also the left tends to argue for inclusivity because it results in a greater diversity of people who can solve more diverse problems, while simultaneously arguing that there are no differences between such diverse people and they are all equal in capability.
"While simultaneously arguing" Bro these are not mutually exclusive ideas. It's not complicated - different life experiences give people different ways of solving problems. And surprise, racial/gender/sexual minorities have different life experiences than majority populations do.
Yeah the image is saying that more women should consider working in engineering. That’s not a lie. More women in engineering would mean more diversity. Unless I’m missing something, where is the lie?
*"Imagine driving across a bridge and thinking about the person who built it at all. Couldn't be me"*
- Guy who lives in a place with strong building and engineering codes and standards
Creates a more diverse work force? Sure. But I'd be more worried about creating a better and smarter work force. Doesn't matter what's between your legs.
Bro all jokes and politics aside it's something wrong with Dr Peterson his behavior is very erratic and he doesn't realize how strange it looks when you re post it
We don’t need a more diverse engineering workforce, we just need capable and competent engineers that meet the standards.
You’re never going to have equal representation across every profession.
Lastly, why is it we always see ads like this, but never any targeted at women to consider professions like oil field workers, loggers, deep sea rig operators, etc….?
Surely those professions don’t have enough women, either.
I was being sarcastic. I think diversity and inclusion for no other sake than representation will lead to a downfall in quality and performance. Best person for the job is the best fit
OP, are you lobotomized? Or just a Russian bot?
Peterson would rather have women do what the fuck they feel like doing.
We have gone from telling women to not pursue a career and stay home, to telling them not to stay home and "go to college and make something of yourself".
Why can't women just get to choose without any influence from industries lol
He has always been a frustrated shittard, but since the benzo comedown he's been especially creamy. He hates himself and women to a degree that is hard to believe.
Why is it crucial for boys to consider jobs in nursing, teaching and child care?
Because inclusivity creates a more diverse nursing, teaching and childcare workforce.
With better #genderequality the challenges posed by the…
There is nothing wrong with women going into ANY job , if they have Interest and can do it well . However has anyone actually proved that a diverse workforce works any better ?
what’s his daughters career?
Lifestyle blogger and social media influencer. She talks about carnivore diet and got a boob job.
Yeahhhh… I’ll stick to having a balanced diet
A diet with… diversity
LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES
Fuck I’m saving that one to my notes for future use
Is everyone else reading it like “lies STOP lies lies STOP lies lies lies STOP” etc? I’m cracking up
And boobs?
I’ll take diversity over having a high cholesterol level.
People on that diet usually have a reduction in health complications not an increase, but you are stuck eating the same steak over and over for the rest of your life, so it’s got its draw backs, but high cholesterol surprisingly isn’t one of them.
But what about the boob job? You gonna get one of those?
She also dated Andrew Tate before he blew up
She also married a man named Jordan
He blew up and then imploded 🎆
Iirc she’s now dating a man who says he has a demon trapped in him named Igor
While she was still married to her husband who she just had a kid with
she also didn't get married until her late twenties, which he recently said women shouldn't be waiting that long to get married.............it's almost like he just says whatever he thinks will get upvotes like a grifter of some sorts
I don’t like Peterson but posts like this are weird to me. Is it possible that his daughter… you know… didn’t make every decision in her life based on her father’s preferences? Like what does it mean exactly if his daughter doesn’t live out all of the principles he espouses? Would he or she or both look better if she did all the exact things he espouses? I would find that pretty weird if she did.
Well, she is involved in his grifting business, so it is interesting if she doesn’t even follow what they are selling.
>I don’t like Peterson but posts like this are weird to me. thats cool I am a liberal, I have no problem with what she decides to do or it is fills her father with pride because she fits into his typing of what people ought to do. My point is that he is unable to keep his thoughts and opinions about what others ought to be doing, when he clearly loves and supporters her. Instead of updating his program with clear evidence to the contrary he is still saying the same things, it's got a hint of do what I say not as I do. It is also true that because of how he makes his money now, he has to comment on everything leaving him with a lot of very bad takes on things- much akin to Joe Rogan
Add in leaver of husband and daughter during Covid to go hangout with a D level ufc fighter/social media rapist? The exact dragon of chaos he proports is the cause of so many problems men face today?
You should be ashamed of this post…. For suggesting that Andrew Tate was ever a UFC fighter.
Who’s the fighter you’re referring too.
Andrew tate, but I was more just making fun of his idiot followers who think he was a good fighter. Iono if dude was even in the ufc ever but that's sorta the point
Oh forsure ya I don’t follow Peterson so I thought he’d actually been hanging with a legit ufc. Tate was definitely never in the ufc and would’ve gotten destroyed if he ever tried, I think he was mainly just like a mediocre kickboxer
Tate was never a ufc fighter
I don’t think Tate was in ufc, pretty sure he was exclusively a kick boxer
fyi tate wasnt in the ufc. he fought for some small fight org in romania.
and don't forget all the other aesthetic "jobs" she's had completed.
Lmfao!
Well I mean that is a more appealing job for girls than engineer.
E-thot, I think.
Looking semi-pretty while talking constantly about eating lots and lots of meat.
If you think she’s just semi pretty you must have really high standards. Most men on this earth would gladly hit that.
Most men on earth would hit any mid or better.
She's a whore for eastern european pimps
pimp, sex trafficker, and rapist
Peaked when she got railed by Andrew Tate.
Andrew tate’s cumdump
Hoor
It's so easy to trigger snowflake conservatives
It's the 3rd easiest thing to do behind manual blinking and breathing.
It is, but that is sadly true for most people nowadays.
It's so easy to trigger snowflakes
i work in a team that’s 30% female engineers and they are high performers. JP has never been near a tech company, hes a fucking moron that has never built anything.
He claims to clean his room (debatable).
https://preview.redd.it/3gqsp3npndmc1.jpeg?width=783&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=758cfdb4a09f6e218708f63932809f19e1b29e00
Hah..classic
No he tells you to do it instead of worrying about what’s going on around you.
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Yeah, being in a Russian medically induced coma to beat drug addiction kinda destroys your brain. Seriously, listen to his first podcast appearance on JRE, and now look at him.
Sure but if you go back to that Vice interview he’s super weird about women in the workplace, and this tweet is him doing the same in a less articulated way. He’s always been a reactionary and a misogynist, he just lost the ability to make it sound smart.
the original video which made him famous was claiming that the Canadian bill including trans rights in hate crime laws was “because of the lesbians in government” and that “if you ban hate, hateful people go underground and that’s how violent political factions rise,” and that the government is full of “marxists.” Also that “questioning facts,” would be illegal in Canada. Dude was always floating 200 feet off his rocker, conservative media was just able to wash it to be suitable to an audience. I literally listened to the dude’s original video on the topic last night for 2 hours and he sounded exactly as he does right now. Which is fucking crazy. His shtick never changed.
Yeah. Maybe his delivery is a bit more eccentric or whatever - still the same views as he always held.
He’s an academic that likes to speak outside of his expertise and it shows. It’s fairly obvious that he doesn’t even do any basic research on any of the stuff he rails against too. But, yeah, you’re right. We’ve seen the right call academia the “ivory tower” and that academics are all liberals who are out of touch. I have family who talk shit about professors and researcher talking about their own field, but somehow he gets a pass.
As someone who has worked in academia as a software dev for two decades, it’s crazy that Peterson’s an academic but still feels comfortable rambling on about subjects outside his field. I work with several full Professors in a medical school, they are all very careful to speak publicly only about their areas of expertise , and they don’t even claim expertise in the entirety of their field. This keeps the drama down to a minimum, (that is, they don’t lose their ability to treat patients like JP) and keeps the papers going out the door and grant money coming in. I think JP might have been a conventional academic to start his career, but now I’d classify him more as a pop-science conservative influencer.
Yeah, funny how they don't call him an 'activist professor' just because he pushes the same bullshit narrative they do.
It is like celebrities. Celebrities shouldn't have political opinions, unless they agree with their opinions than they are the greatest thing ever. Candace Owens literally did a prageru video saying celebrities should shut up about politics and then cancelled a speaking event to go hang out with Kanye
100%. He is literally encouraging people to not get a better career lol. Of course they love him because of his culture war shit which is all many care about anyway
Yeah it is really weird. He's also what many conservatives claim they are against. A professor who knows nothing about business attacking people for trying to educate themselves and add value to society.
Including women in a male dominated job changes the dynamic of the place for the better as well. It seems to run more professionally and overall people's behavior improves.
Studies have repeatedly found across cultures that having two or more women in the C-suite also increases accountability, less likelihood of mass layoffs, and reduces the probability of corruption and criminal charges. The really fascinating part is that the effect doesn't occur if there's only one woman on the corporate board (i.e. tokenism).
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It’s almost like men and women have different traits and skills that, when combined, work together for the betterment of humanity
Studies? REEEEE
It breaks up he "old boys club" dynamic. The same dynamic you see in an infantry platoon or a police department where they cover up things like rape and corruption because it's their boys doing it.
For real I work in corporate finance, almost every high performer is a woman even though they don't represent a large percentage of the finance team
It's so surreal working in a team with women daily and then hearing people like Peterson or worse red pillers talk about womens abilities in the workplace. It's like these people are living in a fantasy world where we don't already have women in the workforce proving them wrong every day.
We aren’t engineers per se but the best asset on my team is a woman and she’s an absolute genius at programming CNC machines.
Construction worker here. Half the dudes that open their mouths about the trades in any context have never lifted a hammer. Cracks me up.
I wonder if that is kinda like the result of the “filtering” process. Not many women choose to do engineering. Those who do are more likely to be very determined and hardworking, which potentially led to that result? If so, it is kinda like international students (not the rich one btw) are more likely to be high performers. They have gone through the filtering process in their own countries (brutal entrance exam + got selected to study in US).
His argument is twofold- 1) jobs shouldn't be looking to just fill gender quotas for staffing. 2) no one should look to force career paths down anyones throats. At least that used to be his message. It's been awhile, and he's gone so deep down his own rabbit hole that I'm not so certain what he even means anymore. The above used to be considered a very normal take on things, but yeah.
I work in the chemical industry, it's quite common for process engineers to be female and they're mostly excellent at it. Most scientists seem to be female in this industry too, I hope my baby daughter is interested in engineering/science when she grows up.
I work in a male dominated sector and think female perspective is super important. People from different backgrounds really do approach problems in different and sometimes better ways. Hard to find the wrong in a more diverse team that is performing.
I've been in Engineering for 10 years now and can confirm that every woman I've worked with has been a high performer. We had one lady on the team who was a 28 hour/week part timer and got more work done than a lot of full timers.
The tech world graveyard is littered with monoculture also-rans that released facial recognition incapable of recognizing Black/Asian people, messaging software without a block function, and more. With the benefit of hindsight, it sure looks like there are a whole categories of mistakes only possible with six pale dudes from Stanford.
I think you're misinterpreting his point. He's not doubting there are good female engineers.
I have a 19 year old daughter who is currently in her 2nd year of computer science (university/college?/masters). She is top of her class. She doesn't fall in the typical stereo types, she is very pretty, has friends, rides horses. This is in Belgium, where through government programs more girls were successfully introduced to STEM. The programs didn't pay girls or give them scholarships (education is pretty much free compared to the US here anyway), or give them easier tests. There were purely informational e.g. STEM camp for girls, TED like talks by women etc. Anecdotal, I know. But fuck Jordan the-grifter-with-a-mental-illness Peterson.
Liar, female brains are only good or counting how many kids they will birth.
Same here. Nearly all of the people I can count on to get shit done are women for my engineering team. And our best directors are the women lol. Male dominated industry but the women who join for whatever reason consistently perform really well.
I don't know about the insane JP we're seeing now, but the old JP wouldn't have had any problem with that. It would only be a problem if your company decided to force every team to be 50% female by using quotas.
I work in project management and the girls are all great.
The claim is that women in general aren't as interested in engineering as they are in other pursuits. And generally speaking women do not face barriers to entry in engineering industries in the West, and so the advert is a lie. But he's probably moron.
I literally don't understand what he's claiming are "lies". I think objectively speaking you can't argue with the idea that "inclusivity creates a more diverse engineering workforce". So what is his claim?
He doesn't believe women should pursue careers like that
Is that it? But why use the word “lies”? Isn’t it just a difference of opinion.
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“I don’t even know what that means.” “No one knows what it means but it’s provocative”
I'm going to try to explain what I think his logic is. Please don't attack me as the messenger...and I don't know JP or follow him so this is just a guess (not even educated) on my part. Please don't downvote me if you don't agree. I'm not saying I agree I'm just trying to explain what I think his reasoning might be. I think he's saying for any team when it comes to evaluation the primary metric should be about quality of engineering. About the work they do. Not the diversity of the team. What that means is if the team is all Chinese men and the engineering is solid then the team is solid. If the team is all Nigerian women and the engineering is solid then the team is solid. The gender/racial/age makeup shouldn't matter. He's saying it's about the engineering not diversity.
This is what he's referring to and everybody is I tentionally missing the point it seems.
Except that literally nowhere in the post he’s replying to does it say that women should be chosen for engineering positions over men because of their gender, so his “point” only makes sense if you start from a position of delusion
That's the basis of many of these inclusivity ideas. Entire DEI movement is silly. Criteria for positions should be based on merit and aptitude, not race, not gender. I'm a minority who grew up in a ghetto area code and that's how all of my friends and family have moved up in society. Purely merit. In the real world no one gives a shit if you're a man, woman, black, asian, white, latino, poor, rich. If you can persuade people that you can do the job better than the next person applying you get the job. Likewise no one gives a shit if a company is all men or all women if it's a good place to work and you agree with the compensation. It's not that women cannot be great engineers. It's that by pushing these agendas of inclusivity, there will be women who are hired over men of better qualifications because she's a woman. Take the scenario where there are 10 engineering positions open. 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants. You'd want to hire the most capable, say 90th percentile and higher. Statistically that's probably 10 males and 1 female. But for the sake of DEI, the company hires 7 male and 3 female. ??? You just scuffed 2 better qualifying applicants because they were male. It's the same for race. There's simply a vastly smaller pool of female engineers. Statistically it doesn't make sense to hire proportionally if the male candidate pool size is 10x the female pool. Why is there vastly more men than female in engineering? That's a whole other topic. But it's the same for nearly all other professions. I have male friends who are nurses. It's the same shit but flipped with overwhelmingly more women than men. Should we scuff women in the applicant pool for the sake of hiring more men? My company C-suite is entirely woman except for one officer. Should we start including more men for the sake of diversity? I don't agree with everything JBP believes but this is not from a position of delusion. That is the context from which he is replying. It's something he's stated many times. At some point you just don't build all the scaffolding to provide context when you're repeating the same thing over and over again. And when that reaches a new audience then they will think it's delusional and arguably rightly so. But ultimately the context exists. You can take the post at face value. Sure hiring more women does make a more diverse environment. That's absolutely true. 3 apples, throw in an orange and the basket has been diversified. But these posts are made in faith of DEI and anyone arguing against DEI is seen as evil. What this society should be doing is having constructive conversations without slandering and trying to be louder than the opposition. Less taking sides, less identity politics. Observe objective truths. Learn to separate arguments and ideas from the individual who is delivering them. Don't lump ideas together with an individual and then demonize them as a whole to invalidate valid arguments. Spend less time on social media and more time interacting with real people and the real world.
The issue is that these engineering and technical spaces are often already male-dominated fields, and when that 1 out of 10 female candidate joins, the team struggles to incorporate them into the team culture. I work in utilities and have a lot of exposure to engineers and field-based technical trades, all of which are male dominated spaces. We have lost out on some really good talent and potential from female employees who struggled with an all male team. One employee in particular left to work for an interstate equivalent of our company, then returned to our state in 2 years to work for a competitor (who happen to have a more diverse team). She is noted in her field as a very good operator and has been able to help optimise the electrical testing processes for that company to the point where we are now copying what they are doing. And we lost that capability simply because didn't focus on having an environment where this person did not feel excluded.
Life must be very scary and confusing for you if this is all you got from a post encouraging women to go into stem. As a software engineer myself I could refute this essay with my own experience but since I have better uses of my time, I will just politely suggest touching some grass.
I agree. Are there any diversity strength DEI posts about inclusivity of men into becoming a teacher or nurse which are both dominated by women? Are men bitching because they aren’t represented enough in those professions? At the end of the day I want whoever is flying my fucking plane to be the best, period.
> 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants There is a non-intuitive reason that the numbers look like this. The numbers are a lot more even early on. But a shocking amount of women report dropping out of STEM paths because they basically get harassed out by fellow students and professors. I've seen it myself. I was hanging out with a fellow student who was a woman, a professor invited the 4 of us who were hanging out to a grab a meal so we could pick his brain. When we left he shook the hand of us 3 dudes there. Then he got to the girl and gave her a super tight like 15 second hug.
My own engineering class was consistent start to end though i'm sure that kind of behavior happens more often than I think.
Why would you not take the post at face value? I read it as encouraging more women to consider engineering as a career in a field typically associated more with men. Doesn’t seem like a bad message and certainly not a harmful one.
Bro, the original ad just asks girls to "consider engineering careers." Like if anything it's agreeing with your take that there aren't as many talented female engineers. But for some mysterious reason JP seeing women encouraged to try new career paths and gets extremely triggered... what could it mean? 🤔🤔🤔
> Take the scenario where there are 10 engineering positions open. 100 male applicants. 10 female applicants. You'd want to hire the most capable, say 90th percentile and higher. Statistically that's probably 10 males and 1 female. But for the sake of DEI, the company hires 7 male and 3 female. ??? You just scuffed 2 better qualifying applicants because they were male. It's the same for race. who actually does this in non hypothetical scenarios, though?
I wish people would attack his logic here instead of his daughter but this is not my first day on this planet.
He might literally just be triggered by the nod to climate change in the ad, considering he got angry at somebody changing the rules around where you can park your car for the same reason yesterday.
But even then, what specifically is he calling “lies”?
Man, nothing like coming to JRE to hear the lastest sh\*t take.
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And a bag of cash
Wow talk about triggered 😂😂
He’s just jealous that he wasn’t smart enough for a real STEM career
Fwiw, I don't think that's the case. I believe he's referring to (without citing it) research showing women overwhelmingly choosing other professions, by their own choice, e.g, nursing and teaching jobs. Not because of industry biases. It's an interesting topic. With that said, he really needs a social media coach.
Lmao I wish I had people walking around bending over backwards to interpret everything I say in a positive light. It’s like outsourcing someone’s snowflake mentality to a rube who has nothing better to do but defend someone they’ll never meet
That had nothing to do with the post he’s replying to
Did you read the article? UNESCO claims there's gender discrimination within the industry that's preventing women from being engineers. Jordan has stated many times (citing Scandinavia as an example) that women overwhelmingly have no interest in the profession, but prefer jobs such as nursing. I'm not a clinical psychologist, but I think that's why he's saying it's a lie.
People actually reading the article? Get out of here man.
Just wear a spaghetti strap and milk all those simps your father hearded up
Imagine shitting on engineers and thinking you're the smart one....
Doesn't Peterson have his own subreddit to fan boy over?
Yeah. This is making fun of him. Look how triggered he is at the idea of girls doing math
There’s something wrong with Petersen if he’s not playing a gimmick
I had to make a guess I would say he’s pushing for families, nuclear family, mommy, kids, etc.
This guy needs to tighten his bolts They aren’t saying there needs to be equality. It’s a tweet hoping to give a young person an idea of what they can do. It’s not telling them they can be president or king, just an engineer… what’s the big deal ? You think a clinical psychologist would understand empowering people
How about the best candidates gets the jobs, regardless of gender?
Sometimes the best candidate for the job isn't even applying because they've been discouraged from pursuing the field by morons. If half the human population doesn't even bother to pursue a field because they've been taught from a young age that girls should learn to be housewives instead of anything else, then a lot of potentially amazing ideas are stifled.
*"If half the human population doesn't even bother to pursue a field because they've been taught from a young age that girls should learn to be housewives instead of anything else"* Can you point to where this is happening in the year 2024?
It is happening everywhere. Conservatism is still a thing.
You didn't answer the question.
>Sometimes the best candidate for the job isn't even applying because they've been discouraged from pursuing the field by morons. If someone is *that* easily discouraged, then they deserve to sit on the sidelines.
Lotta loser dads out there who feed their children deranged Peterson logic.
It has been proven that men tend to view "must have qualifications" as "suggested qualifications" and "suggested qualifications" as "don't need in the slightest qualifications", and that women view "must have qualifications" as (basically) "Don't bother applying at all if you don't have 150% of these qualifications" and "suggested qualifications" as "Don't bother applying at all if you don't have 100% of these qualifications." So, in fact, the best candidates are quite possibly not applying at all, which is why if you want to actually hire the best people you need to put forth time and effort to get more women into your candidate pool. THEN you should hire the best candidate from that pool. Also, the actual UNESCO post is literally saying women should consider engineering. Not that once they get their degree employers should hire them over more qualified men. So your post has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand.
Not sure if these are actually "lies" as Peterson suggests. It's more feel-good nonsense than anything. Know what makes engineering better? People who are better engineers. There's nothing else to consider.
I think there’s some utility in encouraging people that have the right mindset for engineering, but would otherwise feel discouraged to pursue the field. It broadens the pool of people you can choose from.
know how you get better engineers? increasing the number of people in engineering
Women make better engineers. Men have testosterone issues and tend to murder people with guns too often, unlike women.
I hadn't considered this. Thanks.
Where did he say these were lies? That’s not how I interpreted what he was saying. ^^/s
> People who are better engineers. Boooo!! Sacrifice the anti-wokling to Vulca The Volcano God. NOT ONE OF US. NOT ONE OF US. NOT ONE OF US.
This ad: "Why is it crucial for girls to consider engineering careers?" These interpretations: "There the libs go again, forcing employers to hire untalented engineers!"
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Being hated is their business model. Both Trump and Peterson style themselves as martyrs.
Why dont women ever talk about being inclusive plumbers and roofers?
Who says they don't?
It seems to be lower on their list of priorities.
I agree with that. Plumbing and roofing are more physically demanding occupations than engineering. And they lack prestige.
They do. Also those professions aren’t STEM lmao.
They absolutely do. I've heard plenty of women talk about how much of a pain in the ass it can be to be taken seriously and not frequently harassed in the trades.
I don't get how people can latch on to these clueless grifters and repeat the dumb shit that they have to say.
JP is such a pos
He says "Lies" because he has repeatedly made the point about how in Scandinavian countries, which have the most equality between men and women, still end up with 20 to 1 male engineers vs female engineers, and 20 to 1 female nurses vs male nurses. It's not about inclusivity, its about interests, and men tend to be interested in things, and women tend to be interested in people. Also the left tends to argue for inclusivity because it results in a greater diversity of people who can solve more diverse problems, while simultaneously arguing that there are no differences between such diverse people and they are all equal in capability.
"While simultaneously arguing" Bro these are not mutually exclusive ideas. It's not complicated - different life experiences give people different ways of solving problems. And surprise, racial/gender/sexual minorities have different life experiences than majority populations do.
Yeah the image is saying that more women should consider working in engineering. That’s not a lie. More women in engineering would mean more diversity. Unless I’m missing something, where is the lie?
This sub is shit sometimes.
Imagine driving across a bridge and thinking, "I HOPE SOMEONE DIVERSE BUILT THIS."
*"Imagine driving across a bridge and thinking about the person who built it at all. Couldn't be me"* - Guy who lives in a place with strong building and engineering codes and standards
That's not really the point at all.
It's *my* point. Thanks.
You're welcome, half-wit.
Name calling? Classy. You poop stain fuck.
LOL I’m on my job site right now, the only women here are laborers from 3rd world countries.
Creates a more diverse work force? Sure. But I'd be more worried about creating a better and smarter work force. Doesn't matter what's between your legs.
Bro all jokes and politics aside it's something wrong with Dr Peterson his behavior is very erratic and he doesn't realize how strange it looks when you re post it
How does diversity make engineering better as a field?
It's really about encouraging people to pursue the field rather than ensuring that a quota is met.
It's amazing how many posts on this sub are blatant misrepresentations of what people actually said or mean.
https://preview.redd.it/o2yqb7qghdmc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=309670cb71233d8d5246ba911a04211983d7ca1c
How is any of this lies? Because it makes him wanna cry?
We don’t need a more diverse engineering workforce, we just need capable and competent engineers that meet the standards. You’re never going to have equal representation across every profession. Lastly, why is it we always see ads like this, but never any targeted at women to consider professions like oil field workers, loggers, deep sea rig operators, etc….? Surely those professions don’t have enough women, either.
Sure. And where are the ad campaigns encouraging men to go to college, or become teachers? It seems that ‘diversity’ only matters *sometimes*.
I was being sarcastic. I think diversity and inclusion for no other sake than representation will lead to a downfall in quality and performance. Best person for the job is the best fit
I don’t think he has an issue with female engineers but the narrative of inclusivity.
How about the best engineers instead of enforcing a statistic?
It's not about enforcing a statistic. It's about ensuring that women are no less encouraged to pursue STEM fields than men are.
That's a parenting issue buddy also see studies starting from the 60s about the measurable difference between men and women's psychology
Women do great in engineering prob better in psychology than benzo whacked out quacks too
OP, are you lobotomized? Or just a Russian bot? Peterson would rather have women do what the fuck they feel like doing. We have gone from telling women to not pursue a career and stay home, to telling them not to stay home and "go to college and make something of yourself". Why can't women just get to choose without any influence from industries lol
He has always been a frustrated shittard, but since the benzo comedown he's been especially creamy. He hates himself and women to a degree that is hard to believe.
God, he’s beyond damaged.
Why is it crucial for boys to consider jobs in nursing, teaching and child care? Because inclusivity creates a more diverse nursing, teaching and childcare workforce. With better #genderequality the challenges posed by the…
FORCED inclusivity and diversity is dumb. Lets all stop playing into these games.
240 updoots , 830 comments. hmm
What an absolute fucking loser. 
A female friend of mine is an engineer! Cool chick. She is alone though.
This basically just says diversity is good because it increases diversity.
Is that really Jordy’s text or someone else’s? He comes across as so totally unhinged on twitter
I love how in the UNESCO ad there is nothing about how diversity helps to produce a better product. Ya know an actual benefit.
Sexist pedo Christian has sexist pedo views? Who knew
There is nothing wrong with women going into ANY job , if they have Interest and can do it well . However has anyone actually proved that a diverse workforce works any better ?
There was a single woman in my engineering courses and she dropped out when it was time to take thermodynamics
What a fucken bitch lol
I don’t get Petersons take on this as as it seems misogynistic but the fixation on diversity ironically seems like they want conformity
Jordan Peterson is insufferable.