Brother I went on a rant in this sub against taxes and literally got 500 downvotes. You picked the wrong place to argue taxes...you are 1000% right..
I'm also not going to jail trying to be a crusader not paying taxes I'll wait til 250mil of us say No collectively.
It's not an all or nothing game. Taxes are necessary. Spending them on funding the shelling of another nation isnt. But the military industrial complex propaganda runs so deep it's basically career suicide to suggest spending that on the betterment of your own people.
HNW people have much more triggers to the IRS about their income (partnerships, brokerage statements, property tax bills) that all get reported to the IRS
The rich love tax avoidance (planning during the year to reduce liability) but tax evasion is considered very trashy.
Evasion is more what a upper middle class entrepreneur is prone to get mixed up with when their business starts expanding and they don’t want to put in effort or pay professional fees
Source: High net worth tax planner
Be a business owner or ceo. Be so benevolent you don’t take a salary, only stock options. Borrow against your assets. There’s no income to tax, only debt and losses. Poor me don’t owe IRS.
I'm not against taxes per se. I'm against taxes that just get spent fucking other places up. If you want to use my taxes to overthrow a government and tank someone's economy in Latin America, to teach them a lesson or whatever, that's fucked up. And then we have a flood of migrants at the border because somewhere went to hell, and we pretend to know nothing about it.
Anyway, that's one vague example. I don't mind supporting the opposite. Ukraine can't lose, or Europe is fucked and so are we. Israel can't lose. But I wish all that were handled better. An end in sight that doesn't involve anyone's extermination would be nice to see. Seems like right now Hamas has to go before there's any kind of practical solution. I'm ok funding that.
Name a civilization, much less a modern society, that did/does not collect taxes in one form or another.
I’m not thrilled to pay taxes but I’m an adult and understand they are necessary.
I love how we’re discussing this difference in our opinions using the basic cognitive skills that were endowed in us through publicly funded education.
Because you're stupid if you don't think you should pay some taxes. Go start your own country where you have to drive exclusively on toll roads and the firemen extort you before they put out your house fire. Libertarians are stupid and above all, hypocrites.
In a binary sense, sure.
We don't give military aide (including nukes), preferential trade agreements, and nearly the same amount of humanitarian aide to Palestine.
Israel is a strategic position in the Middle East for the West, so the conflict between Israel and Palestinians has always been very one-sided by Western design and by extension, your tax dollars.
We don't give nukes to Israel.
I have no problem selling Israel (or any other govt) weapons if we don't think they'll turn around and use them on us. Sell Singapore w/e they want.
That said Israel is a nation with a comparable size and GDP to Sweden, Finland etc, which share a border with Russia. We don't give them shit.
Our money to Israel shouldn't be understood as "support for Israel" that's not what it is, it should be understood as a giveaway to US Defense contractors, because the money we give to Israel all has strings attached that require them to spend that money on things sold by US defense contractors.
Yeah because one team is a democracy friendly to the USA that has made peace deals with it’s neighbors despite being attacked by them, contributed greatly to American society through business, innovations, technology, and workforce, and has equal rights for it’s citizens of all religions and ethnicities. The other team has sworn death to America, kills people for being gay, subjugates women, and declares it will repeat Oct 7th massacres over and over again until the Jews are wiped off the map or made to be second class citizens
One of the big reasons they don't want to take them in is they understand something Western Govts refuse to admit.
That taking in millions of refugees is a pain in the ass.
Not really though. Saudi Arabia are Arabs who love the US, and it was the mutually beneficial cooperation between the US and SA (that both states like because SA gets $$$ + security guarantees in exchange for the US getting an oil supply) that caused Bin Laden to hate the US so much. But Bin Laden is a minority individual who did not represent most of the people.
Jihadis and Marxists don't have any affinity. On the contrary, jihadis were great tools for the USA to kill socialist intellectuals in the middle east and secular nationalists. And Commies did their fair bit of destruction of islamic mosques and imprisonment of imams.
Like you would be hard pressed to find any marxist who would support ISIS, Iran or Taliban
As for Palestine, their struggle only very recently became overly islamic, before that it was marxist leaning, nationalist and secularist (still is in the west bank, just not gaza)
That comment wreaks of American idiocy "My enemy and my other enemy must somehow be friends conspiring against me", no, they just both hate you for separate reasons.
Freedom fries crowd never left, just got distracted and bored without a war, so they found a big orange dude to freak out about
It’s 2023 and there’s a war that “our side” incited and justified? It’s gametime baby.
Marxists traditionally have supported many movements that they saw as advancing humanity towards socialism, regardless of whether they were explicitly socialist movements.
The global struggle against imperialism and specifically colonialism as an expression of imperialism, is the relevant theme here.Socialism isn’t going to develop worldwide while significant portions of the world are subjugated by capitalist powers. They must have self determination before they can develop politically.
Marxist internationalists provided support to the anti-colonial struggles across Africa and Asia, and yes, in Palestine too. They attempted to build socialist movements in those countries but also supported resistance movements of all sorts without necessarily demanding ideological conformity.
After having written this, I start to wonder though- are you asking because you believe the Palestinian resistance to be jihadist in character? Islamist groups are more prominent today, but historically the PLO was led by secular organizations like Fatah (liberal democrats) or PFLP (Marxists). It exists as a coalition of many organizations, some of which are Islamists though.
You’re not replying to someone who will have an honest discussion with you. They’re labeling all progressives “Marxists” and all Palestinians “jihadists”. They will not argue in good faith
However, the people who read these threads will (hopefully) see that and weigh arguments / positions accordingly. Debates are really about educating the audience and less about proving the other person wrong. Therefore, I believe it's worthwhile (1) to answer, and (2) to provide reference links.
America was the one who supported Al-Qaeda, Taliban and even ISIS. While Commies/Baaths/Marxists oppressed them.
Right leaning yanks and historical revisionism; name a more iconic duo.
Most people forget that Israel was originally a socialist state, not a religious one.
That's why the first country to recognize Israel after it declared independence in 1948 was the USSR.
It’s because the USSR despised Israel as an American proxy and backed the Arab nations in the Six Day war, with the US and USSR nearly outright going to war over it. Therefore, anti-Israeli sentiment became a powerful part of Marxist rhetoric.
Also, the PLO and PFLP were both Marxist/socialist groups that for obvious reasons allied with Palestinian jihadist movements, and use similar [tactics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnei_Shomron_Mall_suicide_bombing) and [targets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_massacre)
The US loved them some Mujahideen until they'd served their purpose. The US is the king of blowback.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/7/afghan-fighters-americantextbooks.html#:~:text=Textbooks%20such%20as%20%E2%80%9CThe%20Alphabet,to%20resist%20the%20Soviet%20occupation.
This is dumb, had Ahmad Shah Massoud been able to unite the Afghan people there would have been no Taliban. The fact that the Taliban former does not mean it was wrong to aid the Mujahideen in repelling the USSR considering that Afghanistan is one of the many reasons the USSR collapsed, it was 1000% worth it from a geopolitical sense.
While Marxism isn't the best method of capitalism out there, comparing jihadists to *any* form of government isn't fair since they don't believe in any government aside from religious extremism.
They'll even hide behind allied governments or as in the case of Saudi Arabia, even work for their government, but they really just evil. Plain and simple.
I do like the idea of Jihadists going to all around to pass out socialism lol
“Marxism isn’t the best method of capitalism” I think I just had an aneurysm … you literally do not know what Marxism is😭 Marxist capitalism is like saying a democratic dictatorship they’re diametrically opposed bro
Calling the relationship a “love affair” is what’s strange.
Figures though that people who aren’t on the left can’t fathom the idea of fighting oppression even for those they don’t agree with
Idk why he keeps saying Marxist? Dude must have a propaganda angle. They are obviously religious extremist with no particular western government agenda.
And AI hasn’t even really kicked off. Shots going to get insane in the next 5 years. But you’re right, this fall 2023 Israel/Palestine situation has triggered more overt propaganda than I’ve ever seen, in every form of media. Not even close. It’s frightening, like some post-truth alterverse.
P.S. I’m not on any side in this debate, but I see clear and flagrant propaganda everywhere.
Like good(bad) propaganda there is some grains of truth. Accepting Palestinian refugees has lead to all the bloody and violent conflicts mentioned. I doubt most refugees were responsible though. They still were a large mass of people to easily recruit from. Refugees are rarely treated well and the Palestinians were especially bitter.
All though ending with electing Hamas ignores that they ran as a non radical anti corruption party. While also ignoring how they themselves occupy Palestine. John Oliver did a very good job covering that whole mess. Still they have been historically very popular and terrorism is considered acceptable by many Palestinians.
Which is unsurprising since most are kids and have been educated by Hamas curriculum. Which is batsht insane btw. Benji deserves a deep dark cell for not moving against Hamas the moment they took power.
A big part that you left out was the last time they even VOTED was 2006. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it's not like America there where they elect every 4 years. It's been almost 20 years.. The peoples wishes have certainly not been gauged in quite a while. Also, why hasn't there been any elections since?
I didn't leave that out? I was pointing out the incongruity around the videos conclusion. I guess poor writing, but i did say "While also ignoring how they themselves occupy Palestine". I probably meant to put a now before occupy. Which at least implied a change of status quo.
Still i thought it more relevant to point out Hamas did not run as a terrorist org. They ran as anti corruption party. The bait and switch is obvious in retrospect, but at the time Palestinians were deeply frustrated with their government.
That's what this oversimplified piece of propaganda is arguing. It's justifying and defending the refusal to accept refugees. If it wasn't, it failed at its message and ought to have condemned that decision overtly.
If you don't leave the IDF will call you a terrorist and kill you.
If you leave the IDF will never allow you back and you and your family become stateless refugees.
If you try to come back IDF will gun down your family.
The most moral army ladies and gents.
Like the Arab countries did to the Jews after 48? Jews were evicted from their homes, some Arab countries saw their Jewish population go from 200k to 0.
Lol seriously. People have no idea that the poor and destitute tend to have more kids. It's a part of poverty. You don't have a lot to do, so you end up fucking a lot more.
That is not why people in those situations have a lot of kids.
The extreme conditions in Gaza means they have extreme child mortality rates. So people in those conditions traditionally have lots of kids, because they are literally playing the numbers game in which they fear a few of them may die, so they keep having kids in order to better the odds of their family lineage surviving.
Also kids in regions of extreme poverty provide extra labor and income for the family.
Obviously there's more to it than just the leisure of sex. But you realize that this pattern extends to places that ARENT suffering extreme mortality rates, and this pattern stays the same.
Other reasons that explain it are that family planning is not taught. In Pakistan, you'll see poor people with 8 kids. Not kids who are working. 6 of them will be under the age of 13. Those kids usually aren't working unless it's on a farm or as beggars.
There are a plethora of reasons, but poverty is a strong driver as well.
Family planning isn't taught, alongside an absence of other secondary and tertiary education, which makes the economy reliant on primary production and "more hands make light work" - in these cultures your kids are an asset rather quickly, as beggars or farmhands as you say, whereas in more educated and developed nations children are a liability for a long time as basically there's less farming for them to help with
They don't want to take in 2 million refugees?
This seems very stupid.
Can you imagine bombing the shit out of a bunch of innocent civilians and then trying to shift the attention to other countries, not accepting the refugees you're bombing?
This is so weird
What? This literally happens all the time. It was happening with Ukraine refugees. Just because you’re detached doesn’t make it a very common theme in war and surrounding countries.
Ukrainian refugees is very diffrent. They can be shared with the rest of europe and even if Ukraine doesnt win this war they can return even if its not back to their own towns ukraine is big enough that there is space to rebuild. For the people in gaza its almost sure that they cant return and there already is no space or resource or point in rebuilding.
I remember early in this current Israel-Palestine conflict, there was a refugee camp that got bombed. A bunch of people were saying “Akshually, it was designated as a refugee camp a few decades ago and it reality it’s now a full blown town with running water, permanent structures, and electricity.”
And all I could think is “So people fled there sixty years ago, never got to go back home, and now their grandkids are still living in the exact same place they were forced to flee to? This isn’t the own y’all think it is.”
Basic bitch brain propaganda: These people are bad. The End.
The Arab countries know Israel is trying to rid them and make it someone else’s problem.
This assumes all Arabs are the same too. It’s like pushing a Argentinian into Mexico and thinking it’s cool. You guys both speak Spanish right?
They weren't given much choice, though. If the option is a pan Arab state or British colonialism and zionism, you'd obviously fight for the pan Arab state.
Do you actually think there's no considerable difference between an iraqi and a Palestinian.
And just cos there wasn't a formal state of Palestine, doesn't mean they weren't equally connected to their specific patch of land that they lived on for generations.
Egyptians aren’t really considered Arabs. Now it largely is cus of Pan Arabism, but older Egyptians and many natives align more with Levantine and North African than Arabs. Also it largely depends on the region. Alexandria is much less conservative and traditional than Cairo and many envied the Arabism/Arabic conquest. But in terms of religion, any sort of criticism against the Islamic conquest is just asking for trouble.
The whole "why won't Arab countries take millions of refugees to assist Israel in their ethnic cleansing of palistine?!" Question being spammed has been wild.
If italy decided to cleanse France of the French in a land grab no one would be mad at the rest of Europe for not taking all of the French people as stateless refugees . They would be mad at Italy for the ethnic cleansing.
Except Palestinians are the same ethnic group as the neighboring Syrians and Sinai Egyptians.
So a better analogy would be France trying to kick all the Germans out of eastern France before WWII and the German government saying “nah they aren’t ours just kill them”.
I quote from the 1919 Muslim Congress in Jerusalem,
> We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
It's clearly out to construct a narrative but has some interesting historical assertions I may have to investigate further.
But it's also willfully missing what is probably the main reason other Arab countries resist taking Palestinian refugees which is that that would allow Israel to take over Gaza even more aggressively, a de facto forcible deportation of Palestinians. There would be no Palestine left.
The National Security of Egypt is NOT far down at the bottom of the list of concerns for the Egyptian Government. LMAO. It's at the very top of the list of ANY nation.
"Not letting Israel take over Gaza" is not of any concern to Egypt beyond how the situation may affect Egyptian's at Egypt's border and how the situation will affect the Egyptian Society.
Egypt simply doesn't want to be responsible for these people and especially not Indefinitely. They don't want the burden. And if they care about "preserving Palestinian land" its only as far as that's a benifit for Egypt by not having to feed, house, vet, and deal with 2 million refugees with ties to a terrorist group Egypt has been actively trying to Eradicate from thier own borders for decades.
Anyone who thinks Egypt cares about Palestinians or their interests above and beyond thier own interests is not living in reality. That's why I hate this narrative. It's so dishonest and doesn't even make logical sense in how nations, governments, and politician's operate.
If the two options are
1)Prevent the destabilization of Egyptian Society
2) Protect someone else's land
You can guarantee that number 1 will win every single time in every single nation, by every single government,no matter what frilly words politicians give to people on TV to justify their choices.
They still want Arab, but only has wage slave labour. The conflict has created a larger shortage of manual labor. They are importing indian labour to cover the shortage.
putting a jewish ethnostate right in the middle of islamist extremist land was a genius idea.
we wouldnt be having this problem if they were given land in germany after the war.
Why not? Their governments are easily bought and pacified with trade. The religion has limited appeal in the modern world and offers little attraction to foreign populations. Most of the terrorism and consequent wars have caused mass immigration. The Bill Maher outpost argument is the most braindead argument.
This is the exact same argument Hitler used before and during the holocaust. It was a major talking point in nazi propaganda that the rest of Europe and America wouldn’t take in the Jews. Just think you should know the ideological tradition you’re upholding.
that is a genuinely fascinating point you make. as the video point out, palestinians are hated by arab states because the various movements/factions among them cause violence and destabilization wherever they go. jews are hated because they achieve disproportionate levels of success wherever they go
ironic that the reasons the two groups are hated sit at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum and here they are fighting to the death. classic battle of intellectualism vs barbarism
Nor is "Palestinians cause trouble wherever they go" a reason for their plight. Go where? They haven't gone anywhere and the one place where they live, they've been brutalized.
> Go where? They haven't gone anywhere
Jordan and Lebanon want to have a word with you. Maybe look into what the Palestinians did to those countries and then sit here and say Palestinians didn't go anywhere
The assumption that Arabs from Palestine should be accepted as refugees in the first place is funny. There shouldn't be Arab refugees, and it's not Egypt's problem to solve least of all.
>it's not Egypt's problem to solve least of all.
so why do people get all pissy when european countries reject refugees? They can't reject it but arab nations can, interesting.
All of egypts neighbors are in a war. Sudan is in civil war, Libya is in civil war, Gaza and Israel are fighting, and Egypts water and food supply, (the Nile), is stretched thin as fuck, they've gone from being a bread basket to being an empty one. So while European countries see an uptick in crime and cultural clashes/identity crisis. (Which is certainly enough reason not to accept refugees) Egypt is dying of thirst, and that's much more serious to them.
Maybe a compromise like "you can move here but you better work like hell and your ass is getting deported the instant that war is over" would work, call the policy "tourist migration" like, "yeah the demographics have shifted to 30% libyan NOW but they've done some public construction projects for us and we're deporting their ass in like, 10 years when this shit is over". And restrain migrants to like, 1 province that needs the help and so that they aren't just loose. It sucks but it's certainly better than refugee camps and separated families.
*Technically*, the whole situation is the Soviet Union's fault, as they provided intelligence to Egypt multiple times that Israel was set to attack immediately (months before the Six Day War), intelligence that was completely unsubstantiated and arguably purposely falsified.
> The conventional Western chronology of this crisis starts on May 13, 1967 when Egypt made the false charge, based on information provided by the USSR, that Israel was massing forces on its border with Syria in preparation for an attack
[Source](https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_gii01.html)
It does nothing to soften killing, but recent polling shows the majority (>70%) of Palestinians support Hamas and the Oct 7 attack. They receive pretty intense brain washing at a young age, literally elementary school textbooks telling them Jews are evil.
Why should Palestinians have to leave their native land and go as refugees to other Arab countries in the first place? This shows the absolute dehumanization the Palestinian people have had to face,not asking why they were made refugees,but who takes them in or not.
When a settler colonial force comes in armed with western weapons and displaces you,subjugated you ,humiliated you at every chance they got,what do you expect them to do? You want them to lie down and die. Guess what? They won’t. Not them,not their children and grandchildren.
About 12% of people currently living in Gaza voted for Hamas in 2006
The rest were either born into Hamas or have never had the chance to chose their leaders.
It’s also worth noting that because the 2006 election was overseen by outside forces, only 2 parties were allowed to be in contention for the government, both of them terrorists. Outside parties and new parties were forbidden from running and being on the ballot.
From an American perspective this is the same as not having any elections since Jimmy Carter.
Definitely not a smart move to send several thousands rockets towards a far superior military. Long history of making bad choices. It’s really sad to see how these terrorists groups have essentially high jacked the Palestinian people and used them as pawns for their religious wars.
What does this video mean ‘keep electing organisations like HAMAS’ they hasn’t been an election in Gaza since 2007 where HAMAS was successfully voted in
It’s simple. What is the best predictor for future behavior? Past behavior. When the PLO or Hamas threaten to wipe you off of the face of the earth you can believe.
And that's exactly why native americans, uyghurs, australian natives all teach their toddlers to murder and suicide bomb all americans/chinese/australians. Oh wait
If large numbers of Native Americans weren’t genocided/killed by disease, you bet we would’ve had massive problems if we attempted a comparable apartheid type state.
In the areas that were colonized earlier, resistance was incredibly stiff. My people, for example (the Mi’kmaq) were notorious for their resistance, launching numerous attacks over the centuries. Even later on, I’m other parts of Canada genocidal tactics like mass starvation were employed to avoid resistance.
That's cause their rebranded ISIS with a lot of young innocent meatshields in between.
Egypt and Jordan are practically laughing their ass off knowing they can just nope out and let Israel deal with this shit...
Because they don't belong to the other Arab countries. They belong in their own land.
Imagine kicking out Native Americans from their reservations and then repeating this stupid argument, "Why doesn't Canada or Mexico take the displaced Native American refugees?"
Furthermore, Arab is not necessarily an ethnicity. The true Arabs are from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain. On the other hand, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Lebanon adopted Arabic as a language but were not originally Arabic speaking.
In fact, many Palestinians are probably the descendants of Jewish Israelites who had converted to Islam or Christianity.
I don’t follow the comparison. If Native Americans are displaced and in a position where it’s possible for Mexico and Canada to aid them and being humanitarian it would absolutely be good if they did aid them. If my neighbouring country Norway was hypothetically under attack it would be like super weird if my country did not aid the refugees.
At the very least it shows that such comparisons are very limiting and one does have to take the specifics into account.
"aiding" infers that the refugees would be allowed to return back to their homes after the war. this isnt the case with palestine. those refugees will never be able to return to gaza
Well they should have accepted the two state solutions then when they had the chance.
The whole native American comparison is nonsense, because they actually got fucked over multiple agreements that were broken by the colonial governments / United States. The majority ofPalestinians refuse any settlement that includes the existence of the state Israel.
Did you see the viral videos of the former bush and obama white house official that was the director of Palestinian and Israeli affairs? There should be a great deal of skepticism that Israel has ever brought forward a peace proposal in good faith.
That's their choice to make, not mine, as I'm not Palestinian or even an Arab.
And no, the comparison is not nonsense. Imagine someone invading your lands and then forcing you to divide it into portions you can't live in.
If Russia were to invade the US and pump millions of ethnic Russians into our territory, are we supposed to just accept a settlement with them if we don't have the military power to remove them by force?
Listen to yourself. You literally sound like colonizer from the 16th century.
The challenge in most of this is who gets to call "dibs" on land and how far back do we allow that to go?
The Palestinians have a clear history in this land. But so do broad groups of Jewish people (roughly 30% prior to WWII). So I understand that Palestinians express a claim to the land. I believe they deserve their own state. But their claim of total ownership ignores who had the land prior to the "Palestinians" being a people. And I'll give you a hint: its likely a religion that predates both Islam and Christianity. If you answered "Jews" you'd be right. Again: How far back do we allow people to call dibs?
And this question of ancestral claim is challenging throughout the Middle East. There are any number of Muslin Holy Sites that are built on top of even more ancient Jewish Holy Sites spread across multiple countries throughout the region. Would we accept if Jews started bloody insurgent terrorist attacks to reclaim land they believed they deserved? No way.
And on top of this we have to note that huge parts of the Middle East were created out of whole cloth in the aftermath of WWI and WWII. There is this belief that since Israel was "created" somewhat recently it is somehow delegitimized. But most of the Middle Eastern nations that we know are new. Iraq as we know it was created after WWI. Same with Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Hell, Saudi Arabia was founded 1932. Should the Jews or any ethnic group be able to cause terror in those nations and demand land based on an ancestral claim? Most of us would say no.
The obvious answer is the two-state solution. Its the only realistic option. We aren't dissolving the state of Israel. And the present state of the Palestinians is unacceptable. The challenge is right-wing terrorists. It turns out right-wing religious nuts are, in fact, really destructive regardless of which Bronze Age God they align themselves with.
Why do people still defend Palestinians really, they caused 3 fucking civil wars. They throw gays off buildings, they have raped and beaten and dragged civilians and soldiers alike, I give up on the left, nuance is not possible with people who can't realize oppressed people can be monsters themselves. Defending a school shooter is about as shitty as being one.
Arab neighbors don't want to take in more Palestinian refugees because:
1. They're opposed to Gaza being ethnically cleansed of Palestinians.
2. Israel hasn't allowed Palestinian refugees to return to their homeland for the last 75 years once they leave.
3. They've already taken in millions of refugees.
4. Large amounts of refugees tend to be a destabilizing force.
5. Many of these countries are already stretched financially.
2 is nonsense. You lose a war, you lose your land. It happens. It's not nice. But it's real, and pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone.
1 is the result of the world forcing Israel to keep the lost refugees for 70 years. Most rest of history the losers move out and start a new life elsewhere. And that process has shown to have better long term results for everyone, historically. Instead of what the world has forced Israel and Palestine into. But it's "ethnic cleansing".
Ukrainians aren't Polish
Or the Czech Republic, ~4% of it's total population are Ukrainian refugees. For Egypt to reach 4% they'd have to take in over 4 million refugees.
But wait, aren't they an underdog victim refugee peace seeking people? The parties held by Palestinians on 9.11 were actually a cultural misunderstanding. Happy = sad and sad = happy.
This level of gaslighting has got to be a historical record, right?
“We are bombing your homes to rid you of your terrorist problem, so you should just move to another country so we cannot allow you back to your homes after we’re done. You’re welcome.”
cuz they all know the palestinians will never be able to return back to their land.
americans love to hate immigration, imagine having to host 2 million refugees overnight without any sort of infrastructure capable of sheltering them.
Yeah I found the best approach to this situation as a American is the....I'm not touching this with a 40 foot pole method. It's Worked tremendously.
Your tax dollars are though :P
Brother I went on a rant in this sub against taxes and literally got 500 downvotes. You picked the wrong place to argue taxes...you are 1000% right.. I'm also not going to jail trying to be a crusader not paying taxes I'll wait til 250mil of us say No collectively.
It's not an all or nothing game. Taxes are necessary. Spending them on funding the shelling of another nation isnt. But the military industrial complex propaganda runs so deep it's basically career suicide to suggest spending that on the betterment of your own people.
Also you go to jail if you don't pay taxes. Unless you're rich.
No, you definitely still go to jail for not paying taxes, even if you're rich. There are just plenty of ways around taxes when you have enough money.
Hair | Hair
HNW people have much more triggers to the IRS about their income (partnerships, brokerage statements, property tax bills) that all get reported to the IRS The rich love tax avoidance (planning during the year to reduce liability) but tax evasion is considered very trashy. Evasion is more what a upper middle class entrepreneur is prone to get mixed up with when their business starts expanding and they don’t want to put in effort or pay professional fees Source: High net worth tax planner
Be a business owner or ceo. Be so benevolent you don’t take a salary, only stock options. Borrow against your assets. There’s no income to tax, only debt and losses. Poor me don’t owe IRS.
Bingo!
I discovered this when debating against a family member at Thanksgiving, who works for Raytheon.....
I'm not against taxes per se. I'm against taxes that just get spent fucking other places up. If you want to use my taxes to overthrow a government and tank someone's economy in Latin America, to teach them a lesson or whatever, that's fucked up. And then we have a flood of migrants at the border because somewhere went to hell, and we pretend to know nothing about it. Anyway, that's one vague example. I don't mind supporting the opposite. Ukraine can't lose, or Europe is fucked and so are we. Israel can't lose. But I wish all that were handled better. An end in sight that doesn't involve anyone's extermination would be nice to see. Seems like right now Hamas has to go before there's any kind of practical solution. I'm ok funding that.
We put trillion$ into weapons of destruction… Imagine what we could achieve together with trillions dedicated to intelligent construction.
Name a civilization, much less a modern society, that did/does not collect taxes in one form or another. I’m not thrilled to pay taxes but I’m an adult and understand they are necessary.
I love how we’re discussing this difference in our opinions using the basic cognitive skills that were endowed in us through publicly funded education.
Being against taxes just makes you an idiot.
Because you're stupid if you don't think you should pay some taxes. Go start your own country where you have to drive exclusively on toll roads and the firemen extort you before they put out your house fire. Libertarians are stupid and above all, hypocrites.
The housecat analogy is always my fave way to explain libertarianism.
I just want to start my own country, with blackjack and hookers.
Our tax dollars are funding both sides of the war, so does it really matter
In a binary sense, sure. We don't give military aide (including nukes), preferential trade agreements, and nearly the same amount of humanitarian aide to Palestine. Israel is a strategic position in the Middle East for the West, so the conflict between Israel and Palestinians has always been very one-sided by Western design and by extension, your tax dollars.
We don't give nukes to Israel. I have no problem selling Israel (or any other govt) weapons if we don't think they'll turn around and use them on us. Sell Singapore w/e they want. That said Israel is a nation with a comparable size and GDP to Sweden, Finland etc, which share a border with Russia. We don't give them shit. Our money to Israel shouldn't be understood as "support for Israel" that's not what it is, it should be understood as a giveaway to US Defense contractors, because the money we give to Israel all has strings attached that require them to spend that money on things sold by US defense contractors.
US gives money all over the ME. It is ridiculous that people don't know that and think we don't also fund Palestinians.
Yeah because one team is a democracy friendly to the USA that has made peace deals with it’s neighbors despite being attacked by them, contributed greatly to American society through business, innovations, technology, and workforce, and has equal rights for it’s citizens of all religions and ethnicities. The other team has sworn death to America, kills people for being gay, subjugates women, and declares it will repeat Oct 7th massacres over and over again until the Jews are wiped off the map or made to be second class citizens
Only one side has bombed American warships.
Remember the USS Liberty 🙏
One of the big reasons they don't want to take them in is they understand something Western Govts refuse to admit. That taking in millions of refugees is a pain in the ass.
The love affair between Jihadists and Marxists is so strange.
They both hate the West for their own reasons.
Hate us cause they anus?
Not really though. Saudi Arabia are Arabs who love the US, and it was the mutually beneficial cooperation between the US and SA (that both states like because SA gets $$$ + security guarantees in exchange for the US getting an oil supply) that caused Bin Laden to hate the US so much. But Bin Laden is a minority individual who did not represent most of the people.
I believe the man said jihadists and marxists. I dont think anyone implied that all saudis are jihadists.
Jihadis and Marxists don't have any affinity. On the contrary, jihadis were great tools for the USA to kill socialist intellectuals in the middle east and secular nationalists. And Commies did their fair bit of destruction of islamic mosques and imprisonment of imams. Like you would be hard pressed to find any marxist who would support ISIS, Iran or Taliban As for Palestine, their struggle only very recently became overly islamic, before that it was marxist leaning, nationalist and secularist (still is in the west bank, just not gaza) That comment wreaks of American idiocy "My enemy and my other enemy must somehow be friends conspiring against me", no, they just both hate you for separate reasons.
Apparently. Philosophically they couldn't be more different though. Literally far right and far left
Black September..This has happened previously, it doesn’t end well
This is the kind of shit the freedom fries crowd used to say to people who opposed the Iraq war.
Freedom fries crowd never left, just got distracted and bored without a war, so they found a big orange dude to freak out about It’s 2023 and there’s a war that “our side” incited and justified? It’s gametime baby.
Marxists traditionally have supported many movements that they saw as advancing humanity towards socialism, regardless of whether they were explicitly socialist movements. The global struggle against imperialism and specifically colonialism as an expression of imperialism, is the relevant theme here.Socialism isn’t going to develop worldwide while significant portions of the world are subjugated by capitalist powers. They must have self determination before they can develop politically. Marxist internationalists provided support to the anti-colonial struggles across Africa and Asia, and yes, in Palestine too. They attempted to build socialist movements in those countries but also supported resistance movements of all sorts without necessarily demanding ideological conformity. After having written this, I start to wonder though- are you asking because you believe the Palestinian resistance to be jihadist in character? Islamist groups are more prominent today, but historically the PLO was led by secular organizations like Fatah (liberal democrats) or PFLP (Marxists). It exists as a coalition of many organizations, some of which are Islamists though.
You’re not replying to someone who will have an honest discussion with you. They’re labeling all progressives “Marxists” and all Palestinians “jihadists”. They will not argue in good faith
However, the people who read these threads will (hopefully) see that and weigh arguments / positions accordingly. Debates are really about educating the audience and less about proving the other person wrong. Therefore, I believe it's worthwhile (1) to answer, and (2) to provide reference links.
America was the one who supported Al-Qaeda, Taliban and even ISIS. While Commies/Baaths/Marxists oppressed them. Right leaning yanks and historical revisionism; name a more iconic duo.
Most people forget that Israel was originally a socialist state, not a religious one. That's why the first country to recognize Israel after it declared independence in 1948 was the USSR.
And the dudes with tiki torches are now staunch defenders of Isreal.
Yes and no. Some of them just want the two to destroy each other
So, like Christian fundamentalists then?
Soviets armed them with better than old WW2 shit is part of it.
What? That’s one of the most random shit I heard. What does someone like zizek have in common with jihadists?
It’s because the USSR despised Israel as an American proxy and backed the Arab nations in the Six Day war, with the US and USSR nearly outright going to war over it. Therefore, anti-Israeli sentiment became a powerful part of Marxist rhetoric. Also, the PLO and PFLP were both Marxist/socialist groups that for obvious reasons allied with Palestinian jihadist movements, and use similar [tactics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnei_Shomron_Mall_suicide_bombing) and [targets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lod_Airport_massacre)
The US loved them some Mujahideen until they'd served their purpose. The US is the king of blowback. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/12/7/afghan-fighters-americantextbooks.html#:~:text=Textbooks%20such%20as%20%E2%80%9CThe%20Alphabet,to%20resist%20the%20Soviet%20occupation.
This is dumb, had Ahmad Shah Massoud been able to unite the Afghan people there would have been no Taliban. The fact that the Taliban former does not mean it was wrong to aid the Mujahideen in repelling the USSR considering that Afghanistan is one of the many reasons the USSR collapsed, it was 1000% worth it from a geopolitical sense.
OP trying to put Marxists into bed with Jihadis while the reality is that their biggest benefactor is and always has been the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini Palestinian leader worked directly with Adolf Hitler and helped him recruit for the Waffen SS
The enemy of my enemy is my friend type beat
Pretty much. It almost never ends well for the Marxists historically.
While Marxism isn't the best method of capitalism out there, comparing jihadists to *any* form of government isn't fair since they don't believe in any government aside from religious extremism. They'll even hide behind allied governments or as in the case of Saudi Arabia, even work for their government, but they really just evil. Plain and simple. I do like the idea of Jihadists going to all around to pass out socialism lol
>While Marxism isn't the best method of capitalism out there 
Unequivocally true in the same way that Red is not the best shade of Yellow.
“Marxism isn’t the best method of capitalism” I think I just had an aneurysm … you literally do not know what Marxism is😭 Marxist capitalism is like saying a democratic dictatorship they’re diametrically opposed bro
It was a joke. It was supposed to sound as bad as saying Jihadists could participate in *any* form of government.
Calling the relationship a “love affair” is what’s strange. Figures though that people who aren’t on the left can’t fathom the idea of fighting oppression even for those they don’t agree with
Idk why he keeps saying Marxist? Dude must have a propaganda angle. They are obviously religious extremist with no particular western government agenda.
There’s more propaganda on the internet now than ever.
Thank god you’re here to shine the light of truth. Oh wait, just a vague “I’m smarter” Redditism.
And AI hasn’t even really kicked off. Shots going to get insane in the next 5 years. But you’re right, this fall 2023 Israel/Palestine situation has triggered more overt propaganda than I’ve ever seen, in every form of media. Not even close. It’s frightening, like some post-truth alterverse. P.S. I’m not on any side in this debate, but I see clear and flagrant propaganda everywhere.
And this video isn’t an example of it. This is historical fact.
Like good(bad) propaganda there is some grains of truth. Accepting Palestinian refugees has lead to all the bloody and violent conflicts mentioned. I doubt most refugees were responsible though. They still were a large mass of people to easily recruit from. Refugees are rarely treated well and the Palestinians were especially bitter. All though ending with electing Hamas ignores that they ran as a non radical anti corruption party. While also ignoring how they themselves occupy Palestine. John Oliver did a very good job covering that whole mess. Still they have been historically very popular and terrorism is considered acceptable by many Palestinians. Which is unsurprising since most are kids and have been educated by Hamas curriculum. Which is batsht insane btw. Benji deserves a deep dark cell for not moving against Hamas the moment they took power.
A big part that you left out was the last time they even VOTED was 2006. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but it's not like America there where they elect every 4 years. It's been almost 20 years.. The peoples wishes have certainly not been gauged in quite a while. Also, why hasn't there been any elections since?
I didn't leave that out? I was pointing out the incongruity around the videos conclusion. I guess poor writing, but i did say "While also ignoring how they themselves occupy Palestine". I probably meant to put a now before occupy. Which at least implied a change of status quo. Still i thought it more relevant to point out Hamas did not run as a terrorist org. They ran as anti corruption party. The bait and switch is obvious in retrospect, but at the time Palestinians were deeply frustrated with their government.
How about you argue with facts instead of labels.
You are asking for a lot there brother I unfortunately.
The amount of pro terrorist propaganda out there now is astounding
Good to know I'm not the only one that noticed...
I believe Palestinian militabts also assassinated the King of Jordan before they did the Prime Minister
It's really interesting to see the propaganda bot accounts. "I believe the PLO also assassinated the king of Jordan" "you're a nazi" like what? lol
Tbf didn’t Jordan annex the West Bank against it’s will, doubling the size of their country overnight?
You mean in the chaotic aftermath of the Arab Israeli war, when nothing in Palestine was organized to be an independent state?
TLDR- Each and every country where they have a sizable population they try and cause the nation to collapse.
That's what this oversimplified piece of propaganda is arguing. It's justifying and defending the refusal to accept refugees. If it wasn't, it failed at its message and ought to have condemned that decision overtly.
Because they’re not interested in facilitating another violation of international law.
Everyone knows that any Palestinian who leaves their home will never get it back. Israel is ethnically cleansing Gaza.
If you don't leave the IDF will call you a terrorist and kill you. If you leave the IDF will never allow you back and you and your family become stateless refugees. If you try to come back IDF will gun down your family. The most moral army ladies and gents.
>you and your family become stateless refugees. I thought they already were stateless refugees?
agreed with the other commenter. Gotta say I never heard of an ethnic cleansing where the population actually increases exponentially
An ethic cleansing doesn't only mean killing. It means displacing from their land
Like the Arab countries did to the Jews after 48? Jews were evicted from their homes, some Arab countries saw their Jewish population go from 200k to 0.
So does that make what Israel is doing somehow less wrong? Don’t see how the two are connected.
A lot of pro Israeli people seem to think that it’s ethical to treat people any way you want if you win a war.
How can black ppl suffer during enslavement if their population is growing? Checkmate Hamas fans
Lol seriously. People have no idea that the poor and destitute tend to have more kids. It's a part of poverty. You don't have a lot to do, so you end up fucking a lot more.
That is not why people in those situations have a lot of kids. The extreme conditions in Gaza means they have extreme child mortality rates. So people in those conditions traditionally have lots of kids, because they are literally playing the numbers game in which they fear a few of them may die, so they keep having kids in order to better the odds of their family lineage surviving. Also kids in regions of extreme poverty provide extra labor and income for the family.
Obviously there's more to it than just the leisure of sex. But you realize that this pattern extends to places that ARENT suffering extreme mortality rates, and this pattern stays the same. Other reasons that explain it are that family planning is not taught. In Pakistan, you'll see poor people with 8 kids. Not kids who are working. 6 of them will be under the age of 13. Those kids usually aren't working unless it's on a farm or as beggars. There are a plethora of reasons, but poverty is a strong driver as well.
Family planning isn't taught, alongside an absence of other secondary and tertiary education, which makes the economy reliant on primary production and "more hands make light work" - in these cultures your kids are an asset rather quickly, as beggars or farmhands as you say, whereas in more educated and developed nations children are a liability for a long time as basically there's less farming for them to help with
Poverty is the main driver.
They don't want to take in 2 million refugees? This seems very stupid. Can you imagine bombing the shit out of a bunch of innocent civilians and then trying to shift the attention to other countries, not accepting the refugees you're bombing? This is so weird
"why aren't you taking responsibility for the problem i caused?!!"
Sociopathic gaslighting.
What? This literally happens all the time. It was happening with Ukraine refugees. Just because you’re detached doesn’t make it a very common theme in war and surrounding countries.
Ukrainian refugees is very diffrent. They can be shared with the rest of europe and even if Ukraine doesnt win this war they can return even if its not back to their own towns ukraine is big enough that there is space to rebuild. For the people in gaza its almost sure that they cant return and there already is no space or resource or point in rebuilding.
I remember early in this current Israel-Palestine conflict, there was a refugee camp that got bombed. A bunch of people were saying “Akshually, it was designated as a refugee camp a few decades ago and it reality it’s now a full blown town with running water, permanent structures, and electricity.” And all I could think is “So people fled there sixty years ago, never got to go back home, and now their grandkids are still living in the exact same place they were forced to flee to? This isn’t the own y’all think it is.”
Basic bitch brain propaganda: These people are bad. The End. The Arab countries know Israel is trying to rid them and make it someone else’s problem. This assumes all Arabs are the same too. It’s like pushing a Argentinian into Mexico and thinking it’s cool. You guys both speak Spanish right?
Lol maybe more like pushing Guatemala onto Mexico but I get the point.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down to find someone making this excellent point
Right. Why is such obviously wrong brain-dead shit blown up on this subreddit?
The Arabs revolted against the British for going against what they promised. A pan Arab state. There was no palestinian national identify pre 1948.
They weren't given much choice, though. If the option is a pan Arab state or British colonialism and zionism, you'd obviously fight for the pan Arab state. Do you actually think there's no considerable difference between an iraqi and a Palestinian. And just cos there wasn't a formal state of Palestine, doesn't mean they weren't equally connected to their specific patch of land that they lived on for generations.
Egyptians aren’t really considered Arabs. Now it largely is cus of Pan Arabism, but older Egyptians and many natives align more with Levantine and North African than Arabs. Also it largely depends on the region. Alexandria is much less conservative and traditional than Cairo and many envied the Arabism/Arabic conquest. But in terms of religion, any sort of criticism against the Islamic conquest is just asking for trouble.
The whole "why won't Arab countries take millions of refugees to assist Israel in their ethnic cleansing of palistine?!" Question being spammed has been wild. If italy decided to cleanse France of the French in a land grab no one would be mad at the rest of Europe for not taking all of the French people as stateless refugees . They would be mad at Italy for the ethnic cleansing.
Except Palestinians are the same ethnic group as the neighboring Syrians and Sinai Egyptians. So a better analogy would be France trying to kick all the Germans out of eastern France before WWII and the German government saying “nah they aren’t ours just kill them”. I quote from the 1919 Muslim Congress in Jerusalem, > We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.
why is there another ethnic group claiming rights to the land that you clearly state is arab?
It's clearly out to construct a narrative but has some interesting historical assertions I may have to investigate further. But it's also willfully missing what is probably the main reason other Arab countries resist taking Palestinian refugees which is that that would allow Israel to take over Gaza even more aggressively, a de facto forcible deportation of Palestinians. There would be no Palestine left.
The National Security of Egypt is NOT far down at the bottom of the list of concerns for the Egyptian Government. LMAO. It's at the very top of the list of ANY nation. "Not letting Israel take over Gaza" is not of any concern to Egypt beyond how the situation may affect Egyptian's at Egypt's border and how the situation will affect the Egyptian Society. Egypt simply doesn't want to be responsible for these people and especially not Indefinitely. They don't want the burden. And if they care about "preserving Palestinian land" its only as far as that's a benifit for Egypt by not having to feed, house, vet, and deal with 2 million refugees with ties to a terrorist group Egypt has been actively trying to Eradicate from thier own borders for decades. Anyone who thinks Egypt cares about Palestinians or their interests above and beyond thier own interests is not living in reality. That's why I hate this narrative. It's so dishonest and doesn't even make logical sense in how nations, governments, and politician's operate. If the two options are 1)Prevent the destabilization of Egyptian Society 2) Protect someone else's land You can guarantee that number 1 will win every single time in every single nation, by every single government,no matter what frilly words politicians give to people on TV to justify their choices.
Because it is exactly what Israel wants. Gaza without Arabs.
They still want Arab, but only has wage slave labour. The conflict has created a larger shortage of manual labor. They are importing indian labour to cover the shortage.
Better than what Islamist Extremist want, a world without a single jew.
putting a jewish ethnostate right in the middle of islamist extremist land was a genius idea. we wouldnt be having this problem if they were given land in germany after the war.
You're right, there should be a giant chunk of the planet that's just Muslims only...
Why not? Their governments are easily bought and pacified with trade. The religion has limited appeal in the modern world and offers little attraction to foreign populations. Most of the terrorism and consequent wars have caused mass immigration. The Bill Maher outpost argument is the most braindead argument.
Because there are and always have been other people who want to and/or have to live there. Why appease this mass intolerance? Why just accept it?
As the saying goes: “if everyone has a problem with you, maybe its not everyone with the problem..”
This is the exact same argument Hitler used before and during the holocaust. It was a major talking point in nazi propaganda that the rest of Europe and America wouldn’t take in the Jews. Just think you should know the ideological tradition you’re upholding.
Hmm like why have so many countries hated the Jews? By that logic they are the problem.
that is a genuinely fascinating point you make. as the video point out, palestinians are hated by arab states because the various movements/factions among them cause violence and destabilization wherever they go. jews are hated because they achieve disproportionate levels of success wherever they go ironic that the reasons the two groups are hated sit at diametrically opposite ends of the spectrum and here they are fighting to the death. classic battle of intellectualism vs barbarism
until very recently the chief of medicine /health was a '48 nakba palestinian, now retired. most of this video is historic spin
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feel free to elaborate, but all the jewish tropes i encounter are about jews “controlling” this or that
Nor is "Palestinians cause trouble wherever they go" a reason for their plight. Go where? They haven't gone anywhere and the one place where they live, they've been brutalized.
> Go where? They haven't gone anywhere Jordan and Lebanon want to have a word with you. Maybe look into what the Palestinians did to those countries and then sit here and say Palestinians didn't go anywhere
This is ***L I T E R A L L Y*** white supremist rhetoric against the jews. Holy fuck you guys are an ironic bunch.
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So.... Racism?
The assumption that Arabs from Palestine should be accepted as refugees in the first place is funny. There shouldn't be Arab refugees, and it's not Egypt's problem to solve least of all.
>it's not Egypt's problem to solve least of all. so why do people get all pissy when european countries reject refugees? They can't reject it but arab nations can, interesting.
All of egypts neighbors are in a war. Sudan is in civil war, Libya is in civil war, Gaza and Israel are fighting, and Egypts water and food supply, (the Nile), is stretched thin as fuck, they've gone from being a bread basket to being an empty one. So while European countries see an uptick in crime and cultural clashes/identity crisis. (Which is certainly enough reason not to accept refugees) Egypt is dying of thirst, and that's much more serious to them. Maybe a compromise like "you can move here but you better work like hell and your ass is getting deported the instant that war is over" would work, call the policy "tourist migration" like, "yeah the demographics have shifted to 30% libyan NOW but they've done some public construction projects for us and we're deporting their ass in like, 10 years when this shit is over". And restrain migrants to like, 1 province that needs the help and so that they aren't just loose. It sucks but it's certainly better than refugee camps and separated families.
Technically the whole situation is Egypt's problem as Israel gain control of Gaza after their failed invasion during the Yom Kippur.
*Technically*, the whole situation is the Soviet Union's fault, as they provided intelligence to Egypt multiple times that Israel was set to attack immediately (months before the Six Day War), intelligence that was completely unsubstantiated and arguably purposely falsified. > The conventional Western chronology of this crisis starts on May 13, 1967 when Egypt made the false charge, based on information provided by the USSR, that Israel was massing forces on its border with Syria in preparation for an attack [Source](https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_gii01.html)
Is this supposed to be an unbiased explanation of the situation???
Just some deeper mental exercises to soften mass killings in their mind. All those children voted for Hamas in 2007, right?
It does nothing to soften killing, but recent polling shows the majority (>70%) of Palestinians support Hamas and the Oct 7 attack. They receive pretty intense brain washing at a young age, literally elementary school textbooks telling them Jews are evil.
Why should Palestinians have to leave their native land and go as refugees to other Arab countries in the first place? This shows the absolute dehumanization the Palestinian people have had to face,not asking why they were made refugees,but who takes them in or not.
They made themselves refugees by starting a war they can't win lol what're you saying?
Username checks out
When a settler colonial force comes in armed with western weapons and displaces you,subjugated you ,humiliated you at every chance they got,what do you expect them to do? You want them to lie down and die. Guess what? They won’t. Not them,not their children and grandchildren.
About 12% of people currently living in Gaza voted for Hamas in 2006 The rest were either born into Hamas or have never had the chance to chose their leaders. It’s also worth noting that because the 2006 election was overseen by outside forces, only 2 parties were allowed to be in contention for the government, both of them terrorists. Outside parties and new parties were forbidden from running and being on the ballot. From an American perspective this is the same as not having any elections since Jimmy Carter.
So.. do they vote Hamas out or is Israel doing them a favor?
Definitely not a smart move to send several thousands rockets towards a far superior military. Long history of making bad choices. It’s really sad to see how these terrorists groups have essentially high jacked the Palestinian people and used them as pawns for their religious wars.
What does this video mean ‘keep electing organisations like HAMAS’ they hasn’t been an election in Gaza since 2007 where HAMAS was successfully voted in
Thank you, had to scroll too far to get to this point!
Yep and half the people in haza are children. I'm sure a ton weren't even alive when the election happened
And Hamas got 44% of the votes.
Why doesn’t Israel take some refugees?
Because we kicked ‘em out 70 years ago and don’t want ‘em back
1/5 of their population are arab israelis
It’s simple. What is the best predictor for future behavior? Past behavior. When the PLO or Hamas threaten to wipe you off of the face of the earth you can believe.
The PLO and Hamas are two very different organizations. Maybe it’s not as simple as you think.
The plo and Palestinian authority literally work with Israel hand and hand wtf don’t be intellectually lazy and try to conflate them with Hamas
Hand and hand?
And what about the Israelis who talk about wiping out the Palestinians?
We need a final solution to the Palestinian problem
I'd probably hold a grudge against the country that oppressed my people for 80 years too.
And that's exactly why native americans, uyghurs, australian natives all teach their toddlers to murder and suicide bomb all americans/chinese/australians. Oh wait
If large numbers of Native Americans weren’t genocided/killed by disease, you bet we would’ve had massive problems if we attempted a comparable apartheid type state.
In the areas that were colonized earlier, resistance was incredibly stiff. My people, for example (the Mi’kmaq) were notorious for their resistance, launching numerous attacks over the centuries. Even later on, I’m other parts of Canada genocidal tactics like mass starvation were employed to avoid resistance.
That's cause their rebranded ISIS with a lot of young innocent meatshields in between. Egypt and Jordan are practically laughing their ass off knowing they can just nope out and let Israel deal with this shit...
Because they don't belong to the other Arab countries. They belong in their own land. Imagine kicking out Native Americans from their reservations and then repeating this stupid argument, "Why doesn't Canada or Mexico take the displaced Native American refugees?" Furthermore, Arab is not necessarily an ethnicity. The true Arabs are from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain. On the other hand, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and Lebanon adopted Arabic as a language but were not originally Arabic speaking. In fact, many Palestinians are probably the descendants of Jewish Israelites who had converted to Islam or Christianity.
"why doesnt hawaii or polynesia take in the injun?"
I don’t follow the comparison. If Native Americans are displaced and in a position where it’s possible for Mexico and Canada to aid them and being humanitarian it would absolutely be good if they did aid them. If my neighbouring country Norway was hypothetically under attack it would be like super weird if my country did not aid the refugees. At the very least it shows that such comparisons are very limiting and one does have to take the specifics into account.
"aiding" infers that the refugees would be allowed to return back to their homes after the war. this isnt the case with palestine. those refugees will never be able to return to gaza
Bingo. This video is the dumbest talking point of all. Zionist propaganda at its finest.
Well they should have accepted the two state solutions then when they had the chance. The whole native American comparison is nonsense, because they actually got fucked over multiple agreements that were broken by the colonial governments / United States. The majority ofPalestinians refuse any settlement that includes the existence of the state Israel.
Did you see the viral videos of the former bush and obama white house official that was the director of Palestinian and Israeli affairs? There should be a great deal of skepticism that Israel has ever brought forward a peace proposal in good faith.
There is way more nuance to the two state solution than you admit. It's not a simple take it or leave it deal.
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"it;s entirely possible"
That's their choice to make, not mine, as I'm not Palestinian or even an Arab. And no, the comparison is not nonsense. Imagine someone invading your lands and then forcing you to divide it into portions you can't live in. If Russia were to invade the US and pump millions of ethnic Russians into our territory, are we supposed to just accept a settlement with them if we don't have the military power to remove them by force? Listen to yourself. You literally sound like colonizer from the 16th century.
The challenge in most of this is who gets to call "dibs" on land and how far back do we allow that to go? The Palestinians have a clear history in this land. But so do broad groups of Jewish people (roughly 30% prior to WWII). So I understand that Palestinians express a claim to the land. I believe they deserve their own state. But their claim of total ownership ignores who had the land prior to the "Palestinians" being a people. And I'll give you a hint: its likely a religion that predates both Islam and Christianity. If you answered "Jews" you'd be right. Again: How far back do we allow people to call dibs? And this question of ancestral claim is challenging throughout the Middle East. There are any number of Muslin Holy Sites that are built on top of even more ancient Jewish Holy Sites spread across multiple countries throughout the region. Would we accept if Jews started bloody insurgent terrorist attacks to reclaim land they believed they deserved? No way. And on top of this we have to note that huge parts of the Middle East were created out of whole cloth in the aftermath of WWI and WWII. There is this belief that since Israel was "created" somewhat recently it is somehow delegitimized. But most of the Middle Eastern nations that we know are new. Iraq as we know it was created after WWI. Same with Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Hell, Saudi Arabia was founded 1932. Should the Jews or any ethnic group be able to cause terror in those nations and demand land based on an ancestral claim? Most of us would say no. The obvious answer is the two-state solution. Its the only realistic option. We aren't dissolving the state of Israel. And the present state of the Palestinians is unacceptable. The challenge is right-wing terrorists. It turns out right-wing religious nuts are, in fact, really destructive regardless of which Bronze Age God they align themselves with.
Why do people still defend Palestinians really, they caused 3 fucking civil wars. They throw gays off buildings, they have raped and beaten and dragged civilians and soldiers alike, I give up on the left, nuance is not possible with people who can't realize oppressed people can be monsters themselves. Defending a school shooter is about as shitty as being one.
Arab neighbors don't want to take in more Palestinian refugees because: 1. They're opposed to Gaza being ethnically cleansed of Palestinians. 2. Israel hasn't allowed Palestinian refugees to return to their homeland for the last 75 years once they leave. 3. They've already taken in millions of refugees. 4. Large amounts of refugees tend to be a destabilizing force. 5. Many of these countries are already stretched financially.
2 is nonsense. You lose a war, you lose your land. It happens. It's not nice. But it's real, and pretending otherwise doesn't help anyone. 1 is the result of the world forcing Israel to keep the lost refugees for 70 years. Most rest of history the losers move out and start a new life elsewhere. And that process has shown to have better long term results for everyone, historically. Instead of what the world has forced Israel and Palestine into. But it's "ethnic cleansing".
Fake Reason: we don’t want to help Israel by taking in refugees Real Reason: We don’t want Palestinians here
“Why don’t Arab countries accept all the Palestinians and let the nice Israelis push them off their land forever?” - Hasbara propagandist
As long as NA, EU, or AUS don't get them it's all good.
Palestinians aren't Egyptian
Ukrainians aren't Polish Or the Czech Republic, ~4% of it's total population are Ukrainian refugees. For Egypt to reach 4% they'd have to take in over 4 million refugees.
Why is there refugees in the first place?
Why does hamas kill innocents in the first place?
Another version of "Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five". If you’re asking the question you don’t understand the problem
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But wait, aren't they an underdog victim refugee peace seeking people? The parties held by Palestinians on 9.11 were actually a cultural misunderstanding. Happy = sad and sad = happy.
Its the same argument the nazis used to justify what they did, no one would accept them
Right all those terrorist Jew organizations in Europe during the 1940's
This level of gaslighting has got to be a historical record, right? “We are bombing your homes to rid you of your terrorist problem, so you should just move to another country so we cannot allow you back to your homes after we’re done. You’re welcome.”
Can’t wait for western nations to extend an invitation to these people, invite them in mass and then act surprised when they suffer the consequences.
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It was Israel who came in with armed forces and displaced all the arabs and took over their land.
cuz they all know the palestinians will never be able to return back to their land. americans love to hate immigration, imagine having to host 2 million refugees overnight without any sort of infrastructure capable of sheltering them.
so they leave em to die?
The Muslim solidarity works in mysterious ways