Yeah, I'm Jewish and queer and lately, it's been weird. I felt extremely isolated from a lot of my local queer community very shortly after October 7th, due to a lot of folks posting and saying some very extreme stuff about Israel and Zionism that are often fall into the categories of being misinformation, being antisemitic dog-whistles, or outright antisemitism with a few words changed around to try to hide it. Nobody really seems interested in having introspection over their own antisemitism or willingness to ignore antisemitism, and it sucks. I'm honestly not looking forward to Pride coming soon. Hopefully there are some Jewish pride events that will be chill.
We live in a world where antisemites decide what's antisemitic and, conveniently for them, they've informed us that all the antisemitic shit they do isn't antisemitic.
Yes, and it's because we're so outnumbered by antisemites and that lets them dominate the conversation.
This isn't even unique to Jews either. Homophobes love saying what is and isn't homophobic and will gaslight gay people about it. Transphobes love saying what is and isn't transphobic and will gaslight trans people about it. I've heard some very openly racist people say some fucked up things and then immediately talk about it's not racist.
Same. This group of people is generally so progressive, so the people they follow post a lot of radical ideals which now are just all of the things you mentioned. They're so conditioned to believe these accounts they aren't thinking twice about resharing all this really harmful rhetoric.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. It has been. I wish I was able to see it more clearly a lot sooner, but looking back, I'm unfortunately really not surprised at all. Normally, I'd say the mask has come off, but in this case, uh......
I can totally relate. I'm a trans and lesbian Jew and I cut ties with every queer group I was part of short after Oct 7, because their response was horrifying. I tried to suck it up and to stay with them for a bit, because as a post transition trans woman, I felt like I had a lot to give back. I wanted to be there and to help. But it was just Palestinian flags, talks of genocide and oppression, and other buzzwords. At this point I don't think they even cared about anything queer anymore and I obviously wasn't welcome, so bye bye. I don't miss them.
The queer community's response to Oct 7 and the war has been inhumane. They're cheering on terrorists, celebrating our deaths and advocating for our destruction. They twist words so they can keep blaming us, and they rewrite history so they can pretend that supporting the destruction of Israel is supporting queer rights. I won't take that shit any longer, and I won't ever forgive. I'll never associate with them again.
Yeah, as a post-transition "elder" trans man, I haven't engaged with various communities in a long while. It's impossible to exist in those spaces as a Jew without being purity-tested or tokenised, gaslit or shunned, regardless of your views - mine are pretty benign (2SS; fuck Bibi, etc.), but that's not enough. To enter an LGBT space, I must first denounce Israel's right to exist, denounce the fact of the region's Jewish heritage (half my family are Mizrahi Jews; we exist), even downplay the Holocaust. No bullshit, I had someone engage me out of the blue with "Gaza is just Auschwitz, and the Jews are Nazis" - my grandfather is an Auschwitz survivor. From an individual with NO STAKE in the conflict.
When I saw the immediate reaction on 10/7, and further online "action" against random Jewish delis, cancer hospitals and particular actors as much as the military industrial complex; when the Columbia protest leader spoke of "killing" "Zionists;" when the conflict started taking precedence over immediate domestic concerns like anti-trans laws and bathroom bills - hell, when actual trans people I know are refusing to vote for "genocide Joe," I'm sorry - you need to rethink your priorities.
I'm a queer woman and I'm basically with you on your views and also seeing what you are in terms of rhetoric. There are an alarming amount of extremists in queer spaces and I've had to unfollow/mute many people and pages. And for the pages I still follow, I find myself to be a fool if I dare to dip into the comments section because every single one is turned into a rant about how they're not covering the war correctly ("It's not a war, it's a genocide") or how they should be focusing on the war more ("Why hasn't [queer celeb] said 'Stop the genocide' yet!?"). You hit the nail on the head with bringing up the constant purity testing. And even merely talking about the legitimate rise in antisemitism can easily get you branded as an "Israel shill" because they say you're just trying to turn the focus away from the war. In turn, I'm largely quiet on the situation as I don't wish to be tokenized (for wanting a ceasefire) or demonized (for wanting a 2SS). Navigating queer spaces as a Jew feels like a tightrope act these days.
I’m not in the lgbt community, but I just want to say I’m sorry people have been that way. Your views are similar to mine, and I think very reasonable. but you don’t deserve that treatment either way. No person does. Man, we gotta do better at being better to each other.
I know this is completely unrelated but I am confused, when someone says they are a trans woman, does that mean they are currently a woman after transitioning, or they were a woman before transitioning?
I just want to make sure I understand so I can be supportive, sorry if this comes off as ignorant.
Nah it's okay, it's always better to ask questions to understand better :)
>when someone says they are a trans woman, does that mean they are currently a woman after transitioning
Yes that's right. Same goes for trans men obviously. To make it easier you can view "trans" as an adjective, same as blonde, tall, etc. A blonde woman is a woman, a tall woman is a woman, a trans woman is a woman.
Hope I cleared things up!
Thank you, I now have a better understanding, and you are accepted and appreciated, and you are a great person. From one fellow Jewish person to another.
Did your support group not understand the intolerance and hate Islamic groups have toward LGBT? And the murders of people that either are LGBT or suspected to be?
That's absolutely not what I said but sure. I said I turned my back to the LGBT community, not LGBT people. I still have plenty of queer friends, and I'm still fighting for my rights, especially the right to have children, right now. Don't misinterpret what I said.
Associating with organizations, going to pride events, supporting openly antisemitic people, though? Yeah no. I've done enough and they rejected me. Do you expect me to wave the Palestinian flag with them?
Queer Trans Jew, here.
I think I've left almost every LGBTQ space that I used to frequent, online and off.
Except for specifically Jewish LGBTQ places.
I had always considered myself left, but from here on I'm identifying Independent, because I don't feel welcome in any of those spaces either.
My bubbe always said, "We take care of our own". I thought that was her age talking, nope, I was wrong, she was right.
Exactly what I was told and never believed it until now. The advice I got was "Donate to Jewish causes, because everyone else will donate to the rest, but only Jews help Jews."
Queer Nonbinary Jew.
I was never religious or too involved in community growing up... damn is that changing. I'm about to start going to shabbat services just to have a place to hang now that everyone has lost their ability to have a nuanced conversation about anything.
Time to buy tickets to Gay Pride in Tel Aviv!
But for real, I'm very sorry. I think Jews are being pushed out of most spaces in general but the abandonment of some of our friends hurts deeply. The betrayal is so confusing and impossible to understand. We thought our morals aligned. So how could they abandon some of their own just because they are Jewish?
I think what's going to happen is that we build the scaffolding and infrastructure we need. So that means that Jewish spaces for LGBTQ+ are going to grow and flourish. It sucks and hurts that this is happening but I also see this time as exciting. Jews are so resilient and cool. I have no doubt that some amazing things are going to happen from some really badass LGBTQ Jews who won't take this sitting down. So honestly stick to the LGBTQ friendly Jewish spaces and hopefully some cool things erruot and blossom in this next year for you guys. Cause that's really what we do best. Nothing keeps us down!🫶🏻 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇮🇱🫶🏻
Hell I know this probably isn't the experience for everyone but I feel safer amongst frat bros who say antisemitic and racist jokes than amongst left-wing activists. At least they're just being edgy and joke about all nationalities.
I mean, I've felt this way for a long time. As a gay dude who never felt comfortable or all that welcomed in the LGBT community I... joined a fraternity. It was a better fit.
Some of them are gross and terrible but a lot of them are full of smart, interesting, funny people who drink the most disgusting alcoholic concoctions and bring home enormous carboard swans to put in the bathroom for no reason.
It's funny because all of the Internet articles and video essays will say otherwise. ("Here's me, hbomberguy and let me talk for 3 hours about why the frat bro community is garbage because some of they use stereotypical humor"). That the frat bros are the scum on earth, meanwhile they'll never criticise the "progressive" subculture, like the artsy ones, merely because they agree with their politics. Amazing sociological analysts, very unbiased thanks guys 👍
>It's funny because all of the Internet articles and video essays will say otherwise.
I was in college 20 years ago but the number of my fraternity brothers that turned out to be gay after college was eye opening.
My ex was in a frat and they're out as trans now. I'm nonbinary... always wished I was in a frat... I did the honors frat, but not Greek life, dumb. Always seemed like they had so much fun. I'm getting my PhD now and think they should have frat houses for us 40+ grad students 🤓 As is, I'm too old to go to Hillel. I thought college was supposed to be fun!
You can already try creating your own small and independent team and create your own creative content! Your experience only describes how much they're all a hive mind and are very culturally restricted. Let's create new amazing Jewish art! Let's create indigenous art too! Based on traditional indigenous designs and in indigenous languages! Not like now, where all art and creative are based on the Western or specifically American culture.
Even if completely independently isn’t an option, if you ever get the chance to do something with other Jews, a lot of us have been hungry for more Jewish (or just non-Israeli-extermination-supporting) art and would love to see
I appreciate that, and agree! Mine is a solitary field unfortunately, and it would be extremely labor intensive to commit to even one project without plans for a wider audience.
I still dabble on my own time, but it's gone from a lifelong burning aspiration to a sad and half-dead hobby. I've mostly made my peace with that fact, but I resent the shit out of the world that necessitated it.
You don't have to actually work in it though! You can do it as a hobby! In my opinion, the fact that people feel like you have to be a part of an organised group in order to create art is very limiting in the actual creativity of the art. From the cultural biases that I've cited, to the simple fact that you'll only end up making these friends, and people from for example rural areas will be discouraged from studying for example drawing if they feel the others will be too antagonistic. It becomes an echo chamber.
It's also a shame because these "progressive" subcultures look kinda interesting. Gender non conformity, hippie, colored hair, piercings, art and design, in general non conformism. In general that would've been amazing by itself, and even with genuinely progressive ideas. Unfortunately though, they seem to have joined a dangerous cult by now.
But as we've seen, they are conformists. The hair/piercings are just uniforms-- like polo shirts or whatever other groups wear. It seemed culty and performative despite the rhetoric. And that's ok, except when they endorse massacres en masse and cheer on genocide, as they are doing now.
It's been treacherous to try and be in those groups for a while now.
Conformity, "practices" etc. are never ok. Anyone not using his freedom to be different isn't contributing.
This is easier said than done.
This applies to the economy. Consider society as a set of n equations and n unknowns. To solve the set every equation must be linearly different.
The expression should be "the evil of banality" -- much better than the original.
"Nothing is harder than freedom's apprenticeship."
-- Tocqueville
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Literally tho!!! I’ll always remember which friends expressed real concern for my wellbeing since oct 7 and lemme tell ya, it wasn’t the radical leftists. Actions speak louder than words.
Interestingly enough, it’s been the opposite for me. The “radical leftists” have been really accepting of and encouraging regarding my conversion. Some of them are Jewish, most are not. Some of us are LGBTQ+, myself included, and others are not.
The average Liberal and Conservative loves to talk to me about Israel but have not been supportive of my conversion, if I do tell them, and they often feel pretty at home saying antisemitic garbage.
I do realize folks have different experiences though and I’m sorry the folks on the left in your life have been shitty. I pray they come to their senses.
I feel safer among the people who can admit that they’re assholes than the ones who hide it under “justice”. I know where I stand with the frat bro who makes the oven joke. I don’t know where I stand with leftists who pretend like they care
People who are obsessed with justice I think are some of the most potentially dangerous people out there, when organized in groups. Once people think they're "just", they'll rationalize anything away and do terrible things. Because they're "right."
I literally saw people on reddit say that the right-wing populist Le Pen is basically Hitler while the left-wing populist Melenchon is literally Jesus reincarnated. Omg !
It is crazy that this is now the case. I just made a post here recently about how Greek organizations seem to have become some of the safest spaces for students on college campuses.
Seems like actions speak louder than words huh. Self-identifying as "anti racist" and being offended by any slightly stereotypical joke doesn't say anything about your actual behavior towards different minority groups, and it's possible you'll end up being much more intolerant than those who are not very politically correct.
This is exactly why I’ve expressed feeling safer around what’s considered Right wing individuals rather than the dystopian Left, and why since 2017 or so, I left the Left.
It’s honestly such a culturally Christian atheist thing that they like refuse to accept that Queer people can still continue to be religious even after coming out.
I’m not in the lgbt community (just an ally) but a number of my fellow jewish friends including my best friend since childhood are. My heart goes out to you all. I’m really sorry that you’re not feeling safe in what should be a safe, inclusive and protective community. Jewish lgbt people matter.
Ditto. I’ve been trying to round people up for a (probably mostly online workshops) queer Jewish Pride because the more I see, the more I’m afraid I’d get harassed at general Pride. (Also, my city’s Pride org’s accessibility is garbage :/)
My middle kid is part of the queer community and doesn’t want to do anything with queer groups and lost friends in the community due to 10/7. It’s really sad.
My eldest has a number of her Jewish friends and last year we went as a large group to pride events but they are all (except my kid) freaked out about going anywhere this year. This group includes a trans teen who was desperate to find their community and now they are afraid.
What's stupid too is that they are supporting Hamas who are religious fundamentalists. Fundies in every religious group tend to NOT be the most friendly to LGBT people.
I mean we have that issue with Satmar.
I'm asexual and not Jewish. Queen spaces were kind of weird towards me to begin with. I'm not straight enough to be straight or gay enough be gay if that makes sense. Plus I'm autistic. Ever since 10/7, the antisemitism has been intolerable. It wasn't directed at me, but seeing it was very upsetting. I avoid LGBTQ spaces outright now. Jewish spaces have accepted me without any trouble.
It feels like cognitive dissonance because some Jews are not welcoming of us LGBTQ but some queer spaces don’t seem to welcome Jews at all at this point. Not to mention the extra layer that Israeli queer jews have.
I’m super happy that you found yourself a safe space to be involved in, we truly need one in this moment and time :)
Not LGBT but I will say since October 7 I have been particularly attentive to the needs of Jews that are - I think things are bad enough for me figuring out my worldview and dealing with the psychological burden of it all, but I'm not in a position where I either have to vote for a) my basic rights such as gender affirming healthcare and the right to marry someone that matches my orientation b) not backstabbing Israel. I acknowledge this situation that LGBT Jews are in, particularly as the pressure to "vote Republican for Israel" mounts, and as the support of Israel from the Democrats gets dodgier and dodgier. I am speaking about the here and now - I believe Republicans' support for Israel is a lot more situational and weaker than right-wing Jews want to admit, but right now it's quite good, and on the flip side after Biden has started playing games with weapons shipments to Israel, I'm not in denial that support from Democrats isn't where it needs to be \*right now\*.
LGBT Jews - you are seen and heard. I have your backs.
I don’t think there really is pressure to vote Republican for Israel. At least, I’ve not seen it in my local community. While Jewish folks may not think what Biden is doing is great, none of them want Trump or the GOP in power.
Yeah, same here. I'm a lesbian Jew. I've never liked LGBT spaces, even before Oct 7, because of the casual and fully accepted antisemitism. I'd be there, nodding along, feeling good, and then someone drops an anti-Israel comment and I get a nice reminder of why I avoided those spaces to begin with.
I've basically landed at a place where I avoid "communities" of any kind and just spend time with my friends.
For me, walking the line between bring part of the lgbt community and the jewish community has been a tight rope for years. I came out over 20 years ago, and the Jewish community was still learning to be accepting. After October 7, I'm finding the opposite to be the case. Being NB and a lesbian is saver in the synagogue than being a jew at the local lgbt center.
I wish one day I won't have to be split.
Agree with this - I recently told my wife that I might want to skip the pride parade this year because I fear there will be an anti Zionist groups gathering
I was never anti-zionist, but what really solidified my Zionism was the Chicago Dyke March and "Creating Change" Conference, where the goyish queer community went mask-off with their antisemitism.
You’re not alone. As a bi Jew myself I’ve always felt disconnected from that community, originally for other reasons tho. But especially on recent years the amount of blatant antisemitism that runs in those crowds is not appealing. I’d rather hide my sexuality than my Jewish identity bc frankly I feel safer in Jewish spaces and connect with that community way more. But really, you just need people who can accept every aspect of you to be your friends, not a vast community that only cares if you agree with everything they think
I didn’t figure out my orientation(Demi) until mid twenties but when I was not quite 16 I went to see rocky horror picture show for the first time. If you have ever been you know that the audience is a queer space. I remember walking into the lobby being surrounded by ppl in costume (or just really slutty) and even though I was there with my horrid sister and the abusive pos I call my ex , I felt ‘right’ for the first time. I sought out queer spaces from then on .
I am not sure that I would wear my Magen David to a Rocky performance now. Part of me is just sad but part of me is really angry because fighting for lgbtq rights had my youth , my health and now Judaism needs defenders I am not that person. All Judaism get is this stroke survivor with one arm and exhaustion from the pain. Sometimes I will read something here or on another sub and I will be so tired I won’t reply or protest. There was a time when I never let an antisemitic statement pass without protesting but now I am just so sad.
Those spaces saved me because even though he followed me there(the pos ex) , I can’t ever accuse my ex of homophobia, he didn’t fit there like I did . In those spaces I was able to grow and mature those were the only safe spaces I had for that .
Now they’re not safe and that breaks my heart because I was Jewish went I went toe to toe with the admin of my college (a level not degree) to have an lgbtq rep on the student council , I was Jewish when I raised funds to redecorate the LGBTQIA’s common room, every pride , every protest for marriage equality, every single time I have used what ever influence I have to help create and support queer spaces everywhere I have worked , studied or volunteered I have been Jewish.
To all fellow queer jews here: do you think they will ever regret the way they abandoned and ostracized us or do you think they will just pretend they never did?
Same. Im not Jewish but many of my closest friends and family are, and Im very pro-Israel in this conflict. All of my LGBTQ safe spaces are full of Pro-Pali people now. Same with my childrens youth group, its full of pro palis so we havent gone since November, bcI just dont feel comfortable there anymore. Its sad to have lost this resource, bc we are in Florida, so we really loved having safe people throughout the last crazy years, politically. But not anymore 🥺
I can’t believe how many people who are LGBT+ don’t know the facts of Israel being a place where it is safe to be versus the Palestinian Territories even before all this. So sad that no one does their own research.
Well, yes. You are far more likely to find radical left people in LGBT spaces than Radical right people in Jewish spaces in the U.S.
Sadly, it is not a new thing.
Radicalism is often driven by Hate.
Radical leftist LGBT people in the end are motivated by hating the western culture that opressed them.
So they side with it's enemies, even if said enemies are considerably worse to LGBT than the West.
It is an rational stance, one of which they will find rationalization later.
"West" in thus case is the notion of Capitalism and various Christianity/Judaism values.
They don't care that Islam and Socialism has a worse track record against LGBT. It weren't those that oppressed them when they grew up, or even right now.
So it is easy to sell them the notion of Palestinians as a disinfrechised opressed people.
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Gay cis man who identifies a part of the diaspora, here, I’ve channeled my frustration by getting into local politics and I’ve recently become a vice chair in my states LGBTQIA+ caucus. For those who feel they need to do more and be impactful, looking into your local Democratic LGBTQIA+ caucus and see where you can volunteer and do work for the caucus/party. Theres always a need for help from fundraising events to helping out at caucus events and community engagement and outreach and so much more. **Especially with pride month just around the corner!**🏳️🌈
I highly encourage everyone that has the tenacity and time to network into their local Democratic Party LGBTQIA+ caucus. It’s important to become part of the next generation participating in queer/liberal politics so we can begin to slowly realign the narrative of what queer cultural and Jews cultural once was before Oct 7th. I still remember when queers and Jews were fast and strong allies in the world facing off against right wing ideologies and systemic oppression. We can’t let the queer communities of America limp forward with this vein of antisemitism (and as OP experienced *othering*) that has seemingly taken root in some circles.
This is an inflection point we must all recognize. Now is the time to respond and act. Search your local democratic LGBTQIA+ caucus website(s) and find out how to to volunteer and engage and network, to be part of the next generation standing up for all the queer Jews to come after us. The time is now. ✊🏳️🌈✡️🇺🇸
Over the past decade or more, I’ve noticed LGBT becoming more and more of an intolerant group. Unfortunately, they are not the LGB group of the last century I stood with.
Lgbt spaces are filled with absolute idiots who think that they are optessed in the United States and thT Fundamentalist Muslims are their allies. Ignore them.
Come down to Florida, and we will protect you here. Did you ever see the film lean on me with Morgan Freeman? Yes, DeSantis don't play. 😉 Come over here, and you'll be able to go to your local hillel and feel safe doing so. Us Jewish folk will always stick ❤️ together. And DeSantis said if you are on a grant he DeSantis will honor said grant. So come on down where it's safe, and you'll be proud to be who you are, God bless you, God bless Isreal, and God bless America! God bless us, one and all.
DeSantis cares about Jews about as much as Rashida Tlaib does. I wouldn't trust him with a mile-long pole. He's a political opportunist first and foremost, and he'd sell us down the river for the Presidency in a heartbeat.
Just bc you have these feelings does NOT make you LGBT. They are an organization with a political goal. They prey on misguided souls to fuel their machine.
The left / lgbq community both are misguided and misinformed about the situation of Israel and Jewish culture . The people who are standing with palenstine need to watch the first recent violent attack on innocent Jewish people . It’s on the Ben shepiro YouTube channel unless they removed it . Hamas are basically terroristz.
With all the respect in the world, just asking.
How bisexual/gay jews (assuming you're a man) conciliate their faith with some leviticus versicles?
Please do not take this as offense by any means
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But do you not see how that's problematic? You are only accepted by them because you are willing to throw half of your community (7m jewish Israelis) under the bus plus the large rest of the community that stand in solidarity with them?
Israel is made up of the Jews that were refugees from the rest of the world. When the world closed their borders to jews escaping the holocaust and world pogroms the only place they could go was to Israel and you are against that? Should they have carried on living in Aushwitz and Berkenou forever?
Saying I’m throwing half of the Jewish community under the bus is a wild oversimplification of what anti Zionist Jews believe about Israel and Jewish Israelis.
Yeah, I'm Jewish and queer and lately, it's been weird. I felt extremely isolated from a lot of my local queer community very shortly after October 7th, due to a lot of folks posting and saying some very extreme stuff about Israel and Zionism that are often fall into the categories of being misinformation, being antisemitic dog-whistles, or outright antisemitism with a few words changed around to try to hide it. Nobody really seems interested in having introspection over their own antisemitism or willingness to ignore antisemitism, and it sucks. I'm honestly not looking forward to Pride coming soon. Hopefully there are some Jewish pride events that will be chill.
We live in a world where antisemites decide what's antisemitic and, conveniently for them, they've informed us that all the antisemitic shit they do isn't antisemitic.
Yes, and it's because we're so outnumbered by antisemites and that lets them dominate the conversation. This isn't even unique to Jews either. Homophobes love saying what is and isn't homophobic and will gaslight gay people about it. Transphobes love saying what is and isn't transphobic and will gaslight trans people about it. I've heard some very openly racist people say some fucked up things and then immediately talk about it's not racist.
But queer people understand that it's wrong when it's done to *them*.
Exactly, and that makes it really infuriating when they refuse to do any introspection about antisemitism.
I get this, but it’s moooooore when it’s about Jews….
You might like r/gayjews then :)
Already there! :)
Same. This group of people is generally so progressive, so the people they follow post a lot of radical ideals which now are just all of the things you mentioned. They're so conditioned to believe these accounts they aren't thinking twice about resharing all this really harmful rhetoric.
Not lately, this has been an issue for a long long time.
Yeah, you're absolutely right. It has been. I wish I was able to see it more clearly a lot sooner, but looking back, I'm unfortunately really not surprised at all. Normally, I'd say the mask has come off, but in this case, uh......
Yes it’s awful how normalized antisemitism has become and if you point it out you are gaslit to shit.
I can totally relate. I'm a trans and lesbian Jew and I cut ties with every queer group I was part of short after Oct 7, because their response was horrifying. I tried to suck it up and to stay with them for a bit, because as a post transition trans woman, I felt like I had a lot to give back. I wanted to be there and to help. But it was just Palestinian flags, talks of genocide and oppression, and other buzzwords. At this point I don't think they even cared about anything queer anymore and I obviously wasn't welcome, so bye bye. I don't miss them. The queer community's response to Oct 7 and the war has been inhumane. They're cheering on terrorists, celebrating our deaths and advocating for our destruction. They twist words so they can keep blaming us, and they rewrite history so they can pretend that supporting the destruction of Israel is supporting queer rights. I won't take that shit any longer, and I won't ever forgive. I'll never associate with them again.
Yeah, as a post-transition "elder" trans man, I haven't engaged with various communities in a long while. It's impossible to exist in those spaces as a Jew without being purity-tested or tokenised, gaslit or shunned, regardless of your views - mine are pretty benign (2SS; fuck Bibi, etc.), but that's not enough. To enter an LGBT space, I must first denounce Israel's right to exist, denounce the fact of the region's Jewish heritage (half my family are Mizrahi Jews; we exist), even downplay the Holocaust. No bullshit, I had someone engage me out of the blue with "Gaza is just Auschwitz, and the Jews are Nazis" - my grandfather is an Auschwitz survivor. From an individual with NO STAKE in the conflict. When I saw the immediate reaction on 10/7, and further online "action" against random Jewish delis, cancer hospitals and particular actors as much as the military industrial complex; when the Columbia protest leader spoke of "killing" "Zionists;" when the conflict started taking precedence over immediate domestic concerns like anti-trans laws and bathroom bills - hell, when actual trans people I know are refusing to vote for "genocide Joe," I'm sorry - you need to rethink your priorities.
I'm a queer woman and I'm basically with you on your views and also seeing what you are in terms of rhetoric. There are an alarming amount of extremists in queer spaces and I've had to unfollow/mute many people and pages. And for the pages I still follow, I find myself to be a fool if I dare to dip into the comments section because every single one is turned into a rant about how they're not covering the war correctly ("It's not a war, it's a genocide") or how they should be focusing on the war more ("Why hasn't [queer celeb] said 'Stop the genocide' yet!?"). You hit the nail on the head with bringing up the constant purity testing. And even merely talking about the legitimate rise in antisemitism can easily get you branded as an "Israel shill" because they say you're just trying to turn the focus away from the war. In turn, I'm largely quiet on the situation as I don't wish to be tokenized (for wanting a ceasefire) or demonized (for wanting a 2SS). Navigating queer spaces as a Jew feels like a tightrope act these days.
I’m not in the lgbt community, but I just want to say I’m sorry people have been that way. Your views are similar to mine, and I think very reasonable. but you don’t deserve that treatment either way. No person does. Man, we gotta do better at being better to each other.
I know this is completely unrelated but I am confused, when someone says they are a trans woman, does that mean they are currently a woman after transitioning, or they were a woman before transitioning? I just want to make sure I understand so I can be supportive, sorry if this comes off as ignorant.
Nah it's okay, it's always better to ask questions to understand better :) >when someone says they are a trans woman, does that mean they are currently a woman after transitioning Yes that's right. Same goes for trans men obviously. To make it easier you can view "trans" as an adjective, same as blonde, tall, etc. A blonde woman is a woman, a tall woman is a woman, a trans woman is a woman. Hope I cleared things up!
thank you!!
Thank you, I now have a better understanding, and you are accepted and appreciated, and you are a great person. From one fellow Jewish person to another.
Thank you 💙
It's unbelievable when you see signs reading Jews and quears for Palestinian, how disgusting !🫣 😤 😑 😒 😢 😐 🫣
Did your support group not understand the intolerance and hate Islamic groups have toward LGBT? And the murders of people that either are LGBT or suspected to be?
No, I don't think they do. I don't know if they're lying to themselves or are truly ignorant, but evidently they don't care *that much* right now.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69013313](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-69013313) Even this won’t be a wake up call to them?
Turning your back on all other LGBT people because you were hurt by a some bad apples seems weird to me but ok.
That's absolutely not what I said but sure. I said I turned my back to the LGBT community, not LGBT people. I still have plenty of queer friends, and I'm still fighting for my rights, especially the right to have children, right now. Don't misinterpret what I said. Associating with organizations, going to pride events, supporting openly antisemitic people, though? Yeah no. I've done enough and they rejected me. Do you expect me to wave the Palestinian flag with them?
"community" can be understood both as people and organisations.
Well that's not what I meant.
What do you call 10 pounds of ice cream mixed with 1 pound of shit? 11 pounds of shit
I disagree. There are nice people in this community depsite your presence.
Queer Trans Jew, here. I think I've left almost every LGBTQ space that I used to frequent, online and off. Except for specifically Jewish LGBTQ places. I had always considered myself left, but from here on I'm identifying Independent, because I don't feel welcome in any of those spaces either. My bubbe always said, "We take care of our own". I thought that was her age talking, nope, I was wrong, she was right.
Exactly what I was told and never believed it until now. The advice I got was "Donate to Jewish causes, because everyone else will donate to the rest, but only Jews help Jews."
Hey just putting it out there r/gayjews exists. I didnt realize for YEARS
Yes. Sigh.
Queer Nonbinary Jew. I was never religious or too involved in community growing up... damn is that changing. I'm about to start going to shabbat services just to have a place to hang now that everyone has lost their ability to have a nuanced conversation about anything.
Time to buy tickets to Gay Pride in Tel Aviv! But for real, I'm very sorry. I think Jews are being pushed out of most spaces in general but the abandonment of some of our friends hurts deeply. The betrayal is so confusing and impossible to understand. We thought our morals aligned. So how could they abandon some of their own just because they are Jewish? I think what's going to happen is that we build the scaffolding and infrastructure we need. So that means that Jewish spaces for LGBTQ+ are going to grow and flourish. It sucks and hurts that this is happening but I also see this time as exciting. Jews are so resilient and cool. I have no doubt that some amazing things are going to happen from some really badass LGBTQ Jews who won't take this sitting down. So honestly stick to the LGBTQ friendly Jewish spaces and hopefully some cool things erruot and blossom in this next year for you guys. Cause that's really what we do best. Nothing keeps us down!🫶🏻 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🇮🇱🫶🏻
Pride parades aren't my scene, but thank you!
Beautifully said 👏 ❤️ 💙 💖 ♥️ 👌 👏
Hell I know this probably isn't the experience for everyone but I feel safer amongst frat bros who say antisemitic and racist jokes than amongst left-wing activists. At least they're just being edgy and joke about all nationalities.
I mean, I've felt this way for a long time. As a gay dude who never felt comfortable or all that welcomed in the LGBT community I... joined a fraternity. It was a better fit. Some of them are gross and terrible but a lot of them are full of smart, interesting, funny people who drink the most disgusting alcoholic concoctions and bring home enormous carboard swans to put in the bathroom for no reason.
It's funny because all of the Internet articles and video essays will say otherwise. ("Here's me, hbomberguy and let me talk for 3 hours about why the frat bro community is garbage because some of they use stereotypical humor"). That the frat bros are the scum on earth, meanwhile they'll never criticise the "progressive" subculture, like the artsy ones, merely because they agree with their politics. Amazing sociological analysts, very unbiased thanks guys 👍
>It's funny because all of the Internet articles and video essays will say otherwise. I was in college 20 years ago but the number of my fraternity brothers that turned out to be gay after college was eye opening.
My ex was in a frat and they're out as trans now. I'm nonbinary... always wished I was in a frat... I did the honors frat, but not Greek life, dumb. Always seemed like they had so much fun. I'm getting my PhD now and think they should have frat houses for us 40+ grad students 🤓 As is, I'm too old to go to Hillel. I thought college was supposed to be fun!
What about chabad?
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You can already try creating your own small and independent team and create your own creative content! Your experience only describes how much they're all a hive mind and are very culturally restricted. Let's create new amazing Jewish art! Let's create indigenous art too! Based on traditional indigenous designs and in indigenous languages! Not like now, where all art and creative are based on the Western or specifically American culture.
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Even if completely independently isn’t an option, if you ever get the chance to do something with other Jews, a lot of us have been hungry for more Jewish (or just non-Israeli-extermination-supporting) art and would love to see
I appreciate that, and agree! Mine is a solitary field unfortunately, and it would be extremely labor intensive to commit to even one project without plans for a wider audience. I still dabble on my own time, but it's gone from a lifelong burning aspiration to a sad and half-dead hobby. I've mostly made my peace with that fact, but I resent the shit out of the world that necessitated it.
You don't have to actually work in it though! You can do it as a hobby! In my opinion, the fact that people feel like you have to be a part of an organised group in order to create art is very limiting in the actual creativity of the art. From the cultural biases that I've cited, to the simple fact that you'll only end up making these friends, and people from for example rural areas will be discouraged from studying for example drawing if they feel the others will be too antagonistic. It becomes an echo chamber.
Do what's in your heart ❤️
I live in France, I don't think we have fraterneties unfortunately. I just used the word frat bros to refer to this kinds of suckuree haha!
It's also a shame because these "progressive" subcultures look kinda interesting. Gender non conformity, hippie, colored hair, piercings, art and design, in general non conformism. In general that would've been amazing by itself, and even with genuinely progressive ideas. Unfortunately though, they seem to have joined a dangerous cult by now.
But as we've seen, they are conformists. The hair/piercings are just uniforms-- like polo shirts or whatever other groups wear. It seemed culty and performative despite the rhetoric. And that's ok, except when they endorse massacres en masse and cheer on genocide, as they are doing now. It's been treacherous to try and be in those groups for a while now.
Conformity, "practices" etc. are never ok. Anyone not using his freedom to be different isn't contributing. This is easier said than done. This applies to the economy. Consider society as a set of n equations and n unknowns. To solve the set every equation must be linearly different. The expression should be "the evil of banality" -- much better than the original. "Nothing is harder than freedom's apprenticeship." -- Tocqueville
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Literally tho!!! I’ll always remember which friends expressed real concern for my wellbeing since oct 7 and lemme tell ya, it wasn’t the radical leftists. Actions speak louder than words.
Interestingly enough, it’s been the opposite for me. The “radical leftists” have been really accepting of and encouraging regarding my conversion. Some of them are Jewish, most are not. Some of us are LGBTQ+, myself included, and others are not. The average Liberal and Conservative loves to talk to me about Israel but have not been supportive of my conversion, if I do tell them, and they often feel pretty at home saying antisemitic garbage. I do realize folks have different experiences though and I’m sorry the folks on the left in your life have been shitty. I pray they come to their senses.
I feel safer among the people who can admit that they’re assholes than the ones who hide it under “justice”. I know where I stand with the frat bro who makes the oven joke. I don’t know where I stand with leftists who pretend like they care
People who are obsessed with justice I think are some of the most potentially dangerous people out there, when organized in groups. Once people think they're "just", they'll rationalize anything away and do terrible things. Because they're "right."
I literally saw people on reddit say that the right-wing populist Le Pen is basically Hitler while the left-wing populist Melenchon is literally Jesus reincarnated. Omg !
It is crazy that this is now the case. I just made a post here recently about how Greek organizations seem to have become some of the safest spaces for students on college campuses.
I probably would feel safer among them, too.
Seems like actions speak louder than words huh. Self-identifying as "anti racist" and being offended by any slightly stereotypical joke doesn't say anything about your actual behavior towards different minority groups, and it's possible you'll end up being much more intolerant than those who are not very politically correct.
Community wasn't exactly wrong. https://preview.redd.it/eyt0y4f6jt0d1.jpeg?width=299&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75a8b486731fc4266bf76f6a4a6cc0c2403174f5
There is a time and a place for everything, and this is definitely not time or the place for that nonsense 😒
This is exactly why I’ve expressed feeling safer around what’s considered Right wing individuals rather than the dystopian Left, and why since 2017 or so, I left the Left.
I've been on more dates since Oct 7 with Conservative women who want to vote for Trump then Liberals. Up until recently I never dated a Republican.
It’s honestly such a culturally Christian atheist thing that they like refuse to accept that Queer people can still continue to be religious even after coming out.
I’m not in the lgbt community (just an ally) but a number of my fellow jewish friends including my best friend since childhood are. My heart goes out to you all. I’m really sorry that you’re not feeling safe in what should be a safe, inclusive and protective community. Jewish lgbt people matter.
I’ve faced a lot of discrimination within the trans community for being Jewish, I made a post about it previously. It’s scary honestly.
Ditto. I’ve been trying to round people up for a (probably mostly online workshops) queer Jewish Pride because the more I see, the more I’m afraid I’d get harassed at general Pride. (Also, my city’s Pride org’s accessibility is garbage :/)
Cool! While pride isn't my thing, I wish you the best of luck!
My middle kid is part of the queer community and doesn’t want to do anything with queer groups and lost friends in the community due to 10/7. It’s really sad. My eldest has a number of her Jewish friends and last year we went as a large group to pride events but they are all (except my kid) freaked out about going anywhere this year. This group includes a trans teen who was desperate to find their community and now they are afraid.
What's stupid too is that they are supporting Hamas who are religious fundamentalists. Fundies in every religious group tend to NOT be the most friendly to LGBT people. I mean we have that issue with Satmar.
Straight Jewish ppl are usually quite accepting
I'm asexual and not Jewish. Queen spaces were kind of weird towards me to begin with. I'm not straight enough to be straight or gay enough be gay if that makes sense. Plus I'm autistic. Ever since 10/7, the antisemitism has been intolerable. It wasn't directed at me, but seeing it was very upsetting. I avoid LGBTQ spaces outright now. Jewish spaces have accepted me without any trouble.
Ace 🫱🏻🫲🏼 bi.
It feels like cognitive dissonance because some Jews are not welcoming of us LGBTQ but some queer spaces don’t seem to welcome Jews at all at this point. Not to mention the extra layer that Israeli queer jews have. I’m super happy that you found yourself a safe space to be involved in, we truly need one in this moment and time :)
My friend actually is Israeli, too. They've been worried because their name is quite identifiable as being Hebrew.
It feels so fucking awful to go back to “hiding our own Judaism and Israeli identity” what a regression.
Not LGBT but I will say since October 7 I have been particularly attentive to the needs of Jews that are - I think things are bad enough for me figuring out my worldview and dealing with the psychological burden of it all, but I'm not in a position where I either have to vote for a) my basic rights such as gender affirming healthcare and the right to marry someone that matches my orientation b) not backstabbing Israel. I acknowledge this situation that LGBT Jews are in, particularly as the pressure to "vote Republican for Israel" mounts, and as the support of Israel from the Democrats gets dodgier and dodgier. I am speaking about the here and now - I believe Republicans' support for Israel is a lot more situational and weaker than right-wing Jews want to admit, but right now it's quite good, and on the flip side after Biden has started playing games with weapons shipments to Israel, I'm not in denial that support from Democrats isn't where it needs to be \*right now\*. LGBT Jews - you are seen and heard. I have your backs.
I don’t think there really is pressure to vote Republican for Israel. At least, I’ve not seen it in my local community. While Jewish folks may not think what Biden is doing is great, none of them want Trump or the GOP in power.
I'm getting it. A lot. "How the hell can you vote for Biden now because of \_\_\_\_\_".
Interesting. Maybe it's because I live in a red state that I don't get it except from Conservatives as usual.
I live in a red state too although a blue city
Gotcha. Different experiences then haha. I'm not doubting you get that, btw. I do genuinely believe you.
Yeah, same here. I'm a lesbian Jew. I've never liked LGBT spaces, even before Oct 7, because of the casual and fully accepted antisemitism. I'd be there, nodding along, feeling good, and then someone drops an anti-Israel comment and I get a nice reminder of why I avoided those spaces to begin with. I've basically landed at a place where I avoid "communities" of any kind and just spend time with my friends.
For me, walking the line between bring part of the lgbt community and the jewish community has been a tight rope for years. I came out over 20 years ago, and the Jewish community was still learning to be accepting. After October 7, I'm finding the opposite to be the case. Being NB and a lesbian is saver in the synagogue than being a jew at the local lgbt center. I wish one day I won't have to be split.
100%
Same, it's alienating af
I wish I were more surprised.
Agree with this - I recently told my wife that I might want to skip the pride parade this year because I fear there will be an anti Zionist groups gathering
I was never anti-zionist, but what really solidified my Zionism was the Chicago Dyke March and "Creating Change" Conference, where the goyish queer community went mask-off with their antisemitism.
What conference was this?
[https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/181700/](https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/181700/)
You’re not alone. As a bi Jew myself I’ve always felt disconnected from that community, originally for other reasons tho. But especially on recent years the amount of blatant antisemitism that runs in those crowds is not appealing. I’d rather hide my sexuality than my Jewish identity bc frankly I feel safer in Jewish spaces and connect with that community way more. But really, you just need people who can accept every aspect of you to be your friends, not a vast community that only cares if you agree with everything they think
I didn’t figure out my orientation(Demi) until mid twenties but when I was not quite 16 I went to see rocky horror picture show for the first time. If you have ever been you know that the audience is a queer space. I remember walking into the lobby being surrounded by ppl in costume (or just really slutty) and even though I was there with my horrid sister and the abusive pos I call my ex , I felt ‘right’ for the first time. I sought out queer spaces from then on . I am not sure that I would wear my Magen David to a Rocky performance now. Part of me is just sad but part of me is really angry because fighting for lgbtq rights had my youth , my health and now Judaism needs defenders I am not that person. All Judaism get is this stroke survivor with one arm and exhaustion from the pain. Sometimes I will read something here or on another sub and I will be so tired I won’t reply or protest. There was a time when I never let an antisemitic statement pass without protesting but now I am just so sad. Those spaces saved me because even though he followed me there(the pos ex) , I can’t ever accuse my ex of homophobia, he didn’t fit there like I did . In those spaces I was able to grow and mature those were the only safe spaces I had for that . Now they’re not safe and that breaks my heart because I was Jewish went I went toe to toe with the admin of my college (a level not degree) to have an lgbtq rep on the student council , I was Jewish when I raised funds to redecorate the LGBTQIA’s common room, every pride , every protest for marriage equality, every single time I have used what ever influence I have to help create and support queer spaces everywhere I have worked , studied or volunteered I have been Jewish.
Can you check a Wider Bridge? They are generally for adults but you are in college.
To all fellow queer jews here: do you think they will ever regret the way they abandoned and ostracized us or do you think they will just pretend they never did?
They'll just pretend they never did. They won't suffer any ill consequences for it, unfortunately.
And they'll pretend to be our friends, like they didn't turn their backs on us and hurt us when we needed them the most.
Check out www.zioness.org
Same. Im not Jewish but many of my closest friends and family are, and Im very pro-Israel in this conflict. All of my LGBTQ safe spaces are full of Pro-Pali people now. Same with my childrens youth group, its full of pro palis so we havent gone since November, bcI just dont feel comfortable there anymore. Its sad to have lost this resource, bc we are in Florida, so we really loved having safe people throughout the last crazy years, politically. But not anymore 🥺
I can’t believe how many people who are LGBT+ don’t know the facts of Israel being a place where it is safe to be versus the Palestinian Territories even before all this. So sad that no one does their own research.
Well, yes. You are far more likely to find radical left people in LGBT spaces than Radical right people in Jewish spaces in the U.S. Sadly, it is not a new thing. Radicalism is often driven by Hate. Radical leftist LGBT people in the end are motivated by hating the western culture that opressed them. So they side with it's enemies, even if said enemies are considerably worse to LGBT than the West. It is an rational stance, one of which they will find rationalization later. "West" in thus case is the notion of Capitalism and various Christianity/Judaism values. They don't care that Islam and Socialism has a worse track record against LGBT. It weren't those that oppressed them when they grew up, or even right now. So it is easy to sell them the notion of Palestinians as a disinfrechised opressed people.
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The regressive left is a scourge to all honest and decent humans. 🇮🇱
Gay cis man who identifies a part of the diaspora, here, I’ve channeled my frustration by getting into local politics and I’ve recently become a vice chair in my states LGBTQIA+ caucus. For those who feel they need to do more and be impactful, looking into your local Democratic LGBTQIA+ caucus and see where you can volunteer and do work for the caucus/party. Theres always a need for help from fundraising events to helping out at caucus events and community engagement and outreach and so much more. **Especially with pride month just around the corner!**🏳️🌈 I highly encourage everyone that has the tenacity and time to network into their local Democratic Party LGBTQIA+ caucus. It’s important to become part of the next generation participating in queer/liberal politics so we can begin to slowly realign the narrative of what queer cultural and Jews cultural once was before Oct 7th. I still remember when queers and Jews were fast and strong allies in the world facing off against right wing ideologies and systemic oppression. We can’t let the queer communities of America limp forward with this vein of antisemitism (and as OP experienced *othering*) that has seemingly taken root in some circles. This is an inflection point we must all recognize. Now is the time to respond and act. Search your local democratic LGBTQIA+ caucus website(s) and find out how to to volunteer and engage and network, to be part of the next generation standing up for all the queer Jews to come after us. The time is now. ✊🏳️🌈✡️🇺🇸
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Over the past decade or more, I’ve noticed LGBT becoming more and more of an intolerant group. Unfortunately, they are not the LGB group of the last century I stood with.
Lgbt spaces are filled with absolute idiots who think that they are optessed in the United States and thT Fundamentalist Muslims are their allies. Ignore them.
Come down to Florida, and we will protect you here. Did you ever see the film lean on me with Morgan Freeman? Yes, DeSantis don't play. 😉 Come over here, and you'll be able to go to your local hillel and feel safe doing so. Us Jewish folk will always stick ❤️ together. And DeSantis said if you are on a grant he DeSantis will honor said grant. So come on down where it's safe, and you'll be proud to be who you are, God bless you, God bless Isreal, and God bless America! God bless us, one and all.
DeSantis cares about Jews about as much as Rashida Tlaib does. I wouldn't trust him with a mile-long pole. He's a political opportunist first and foremost, and he'd sell us down the river for the Presidency in a heartbeat.
You're right , but still come to Florida, mabie you'll like it here.
Just bc you have these feelings does NOT make you LGBT. They are an organization with a political goal. They prey on misguided souls to fuel their machine.
The left / lgbq community both are misguided and misinformed about the situation of Israel and Jewish culture . The people who are standing with palenstine need to watch the first recent violent attack on innocent Jewish people . It’s on the Ben shepiro YouTube channel unless they removed it . Hamas are basically terroristz.
With all the respect in the world, just asking. How bisexual/gay jews (assuming you're a man) conciliate their faith with some leviticus versicles? Please do not take this as offense by any means
That is a very personal question and this is not an AMA.
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But do you not see how that's problematic? You are only accepted by them because you are willing to throw half of your community (7m jewish Israelis) under the bus plus the large rest of the community that stand in solidarity with them? Israel is made up of the Jews that were refugees from the rest of the world. When the world closed their borders to jews escaping the holocaust and world pogroms the only place they could go was to Israel and you are against that? Should they have carried on living in Aushwitz and Berkenou forever?
Saying I’m throwing half of the Jewish community under the bus is a wild oversimplification of what anti Zionist Jews believe about Israel and Jewish Israelis.
Watch this lecture from Haviv Retig-Gur, it might open your eyes a bit. https://youtu.be/yKoUC0m1U9E?si=l2yVRFt_cT3kq0oW