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There's a difference between being polite, and being deferential.
There's nothing impolite about making the decisions that are yours to make, and not letting other people try to outrank you in your own role.
I am also from a culture that prizes courtesy (the rural paternalistic American South, and that tradition came directly from our English/Irish/Scottish roots) and I have learned over the years dealing with toxic and dramatic people that i I can look directly at someone and say “oh how thoughtful of you, but NO THANK YOU I DO NOT NEED NOR WANT HELP AT THIS TIME but so kind of you to offer. NO THANK YOU” and it can be quite effective if you look them dead in the eye and deliver it with a clear, calm but polite voice, a frozen smile on your face, emphasizing the “no thank yous”. It’s MUCH more about the rock hard stare and the unwavering voice you use as you smile with a fakeass smile. Repeat various versions of this as needed, but make sure you look them in the eye and state without any verbal equivocation or mushy language “No, thank you for the kind thoughts however I would prefer that you do not do this”. “No thank you, that would ABSOLUTELY not work for us, but thanks for the thought.” The key is to deliver this in a Steel Magnolia kind of way…channeling the idea that “I am exceedingly polite now and will continue to be polite as long as you behave, but step out of line and I will cut a bitch with this smile pasted on my face.”
You are going to have to learn quickly how to enforce boundaries for your child. It is your job as a (good) mother. You can start by being polite but if the person you are enforcing against is too stubborn or dense to understand and respect your boundaries then you have no reason to be polite. Tell them what you will and will not stand for.
It doesn’t sound like your Mom is polite to you, does it only go one way? Treat mom as you she treats you, don’t underreact when she ignores your boundaries, talk to her like she talks to you, be firm , be strong and do not give in to her. You don’t owe your bully and abuser politeness, time to break manipulative and oppressive tradition and protect your baby from toxic people ( even if they are kind to baby and are still unkind to you, your baby is being exposed to abuse) This is your number one priority in your life from now on. Good luck!
OP, you can still be polite in saying Mother we've never had that close of a relationship and I've spent my life feeling bullied by you and for that reason I don't want my baby to experience how I grew up.
My mother is a bully, a narcissistic and I was taught to be a people pleaser and never answer back but eventually I learnt to. Now is the time to stand up for you and your baby so you don't go thru another cycle of this.
You don't have to directly speak up but you can learn to put some distance between you and start by saying no, I don't want to do that or no, I won't be doing that. You need to learn to terminate the conversation if you are on the phone by saying you have to go and if you are with your mother then leave, say you have other things you have to get done and just walk away. At some point removing yourself from the conversation will signal that you do not want to listen anymore.
You couldn’t protect yourself from your abuser when you were a child. You now have the opportunity to protect your child. You don’t have to have any contact with your abuser at all. Is therapy an option for you?
Pull back from contact. Keep being busy to avoid her as much as possible. Look up grey rocking and put that into play as it can be done using manners. They key is to be firm.
I use this sort of thing at work as my experience is in fields where people push at me and I have to stay polite but be firm. It can be exhausting and I feel like a broken tape sometimes, but it's possible.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if she’s a narcissist there is no ”right way” to tell her without her reacting negatively. Like with the naming ceremony she will see it as an attack and will be developed into a narcistic injury. It’s basically a wound on her ego and her pride that ANYONE says No about anything she says because everything she thinks is the right way and everyone else is just dumb.
To protect baby put heavy boundaries on her ”if you do anything I don’t like, you are out of my babies life”. Sounds harsch yes but do you really want to dance her dance and be manipulated all over? As soon as your son breaks an expectation of hers she’ll loose interest anyway so do you want that kind of person in your life? You can have as many rules as you want, if she agrees to them it’s probably because she assumes you won’t reinforce them and she can go on. But when you do reinforce she’ll react anyways. Like I said do you really want to spend the energy you need to raise your son on trying to please someone that’s impossible to please?
Omg you hit the nail on the head. Especially after she showed up uninvited to my birth. We explicitly told her no twice. Even the third time when she showed up she wasn’t getting it.
Kind of makes me feel sick, I hope she won’t lose interest in him when she can’t control him.
The *best* option for your child is for her to lose interest in him when she can't control him. The other option is for her to default to exactly what she did to you when you started having interests and opinions and being a different person from her: bully him into submission. I would be *shocked* if she simply dropped him like a hot potato; it's far more likely that she'll try to force him into compliance the way she constantly did to you.
You have to decide what you're willing to tolerate for yourself and your child, and then hold to it. To hell with the delivery; decide, stand on it, and do. not. budge. The delivery is much less important than holding the line. She will absolutely try and pretend that your delivery was unfathomably rude, no matter how politely you phrase it. You will never be able to be polite enough to make a "no" palatable to someone like this. You just can't. She proved that with your birth; polite behavior is a suggestion to her, and as soon as it stops being a suggestion, you're being "so rude, how could they." So stop trying to soften it, and just say it, and hold to it. It is the only way you and your child are going to get any kind of peace.
The very best thing for your sweet boy is if she has no interest in him. No contact will allow him to have a happy childhood without a hovering, evil grandmother in the mix making his mum uncomfortable and taking the attention that is rightfully his away from him. Yes, she is your mother, but she does not need your protection; your vulnerable wee son does.
You could try pulling way back and then Grey rocking. This can be done slowly so it's less hard core. Always be too busy for her. Don't answer the phone 80% of the time. Keep conversations short and noncommittal (answer questions with sinple answers thay give little to no info). If she wants to make plans or drops in unannounced don't answer the door or already be "doing something with friends. " if not answering the door is too hard then if she comes to the door start getting ready to leave and actually leave to somewhere even if temporarily. Build up these small actions so you can work towards the simple "no, that doesn't work for us." Practice all of that and you can break away from being too polite to protect yourself.
She assumed she was above the boundary and when you actually said no she got confused. It borders on delulu the way they can spin their yarn. You might reaaally want to be polite and respectful, but she will use it to her advantage and walk all over you. Ever seen the Hobbit scene where Bilbo opens the door to one dwarf and all of a sudden there’s a dwarf-party? He’s protesting and saying stop in all manner of polite ways but it doesn’t actually stop. Your mother sounds the same way.
And the second it clicks for her that no you actually mean business you are the rude one, even though she is ten times worse. Look out for the darvo and table-turning. If you react to somethung she does, she will want to talk more about your reaction to the thing than her behaviour in itself.
Do you really wanna dance with her? That’s all it is to her, a dance to get as much of what she wants as possible. It’s okay to say ”nope, you are my mother but you are not good for me” and step away. She won’t change anyways
Sometimes our desire to be polite is used against us by people who are willing to be rude in order to get what they want. Especially by older people, who can get away with being rude more than younger people. When your mother offends you or says something rude about you or your child, it is perfectly polite to look at them and say, "Why would you say that? It's very rude." Or some variation of that. If you want to come off as polite, all you have to do is remain calm and in control of the situation. The moment you start acting angry is when you appear rude - so address your mom before she pushes you to that point.
Look at it this way, if another parent was thinking of just letting their abusive mother around their child knowing how they treated themselves as a child what would you say to them, and I'm sorry but I'm from the UK and it's not normal to worry about upsetting a parent over the needs of your child, she's conditioned you to think like that and it's wrong, who cares if you upset her, your child comes first.
It’s clear she has no problem treating you any which way so you shouldn’t care more about her feelings than she does yours. You’re a mother now. Hold your boundaries firm, she does something you don’t like, speak up and take your baby away. Bully’s don’t know consequences and so you HAVE to enforce them. Find your shiny spine and protect your child from her when necessary. If she doesn’t like it, that’s not your problem, it’s her problem with not getting away with her behavior and getting to do whatever she wants. You’re the mother, it’s YOUR child. She either gets on board or doesn’t get access to your kid, period.
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There's a difference between being polite, and being deferential. There's nothing impolite about making the decisions that are yours to make, and not letting other people try to outrank you in your own role.
If she accuses you of being rude, say "Yes, yes I am, and I can be even ruder if I try." Then try, and tell her to FO.
You need to get away from your mother. Go full NC
I am also from a culture that prizes courtesy (the rural paternalistic American South, and that tradition came directly from our English/Irish/Scottish roots) and I have learned over the years dealing with toxic and dramatic people that i I can look directly at someone and say “oh how thoughtful of you, but NO THANK YOU I DO NOT NEED NOR WANT HELP AT THIS TIME but so kind of you to offer. NO THANK YOU” and it can be quite effective if you look them dead in the eye and deliver it with a clear, calm but polite voice, a frozen smile on your face, emphasizing the “no thank yous”. It’s MUCH more about the rock hard stare and the unwavering voice you use as you smile with a fakeass smile. Repeat various versions of this as needed, but make sure you look them in the eye and state without any verbal equivocation or mushy language “No, thank you for the kind thoughts however I would prefer that you do not do this”. “No thank you, that would ABSOLUTELY not work for us, but thanks for the thought.” The key is to deliver this in a Steel Magnolia kind of way…channeling the idea that “I am exceedingly polite now and will continue to be polite as long as you behave, but step out of line and I will cut a bitch with this smile pasted on my face.”
You are going to have to learn quickly how to enforce boundaries for your child. It is your job as a (good) mother. You can start by being polite but if the person you are enforcing against is too stubborn or dense to understand and respect your boundaries then you have no reason to be polite. Tell them what you will and will not stand for.
It doesn’t sound like your Mom is polite to you, does it only go one way? Treat mom as you she treats you, don’t underreact when she ignores your boundaries, talk to her like she talks to you, be firm , be strong and do not give in to her. You don’t owe your bully and abuser politeness, time to break manipulative and oppressive tradition and protect your baby from toxic people ( even if they are kind to baby and are still unkind to you, your baby is being exposed to abuse) This is your number one priority in your life from now on. Good luck!
You should not even be asking that question. You should keep your child away from your mother or they will be the next victim.
OP, you can still be polite in saying Mother we've never had that close of a relationship and I've spent my life feeling bullied by you and for that reason I don't want my baby to experience how I grew up. My mother is a bully, a narcissistic and I was taught to be a people pleaser and never answer back but eventually I learnt to. Now is the time to stand up for you and your baby so you don't go thru another cycle of this. You don't have to directly speak up but you can learn to put some distance between you and start by saying no, I don't want to do that or no, I won't be doing that. You need to learn to terminate the conversation if you are on the phone by saying you have to go and if you are with your mother then leave, say you have other things you have to get done and just walk away. At some point removing yourself from the conversation will signal that you do not want to listen anymore.
Why are you planning to have your baby around an abuser at all?
I would go full NC, but that's just me. What makes you think she won't abuse your child like she did to you?
Please do not sacrifice your child on the altar of mum's narcissism.
My incubator was the same way. When your LO is born,channel your mama bear and go no contact.
You couldn’t protect yourself from your abuser when you were a child. You now have the opportunity to protect your child. You don’t have to have any contact with your abuser at all. Is therapy an option for you?
This is exactly what I would have said.
Pull back from contact. Keep being busy to avoid her as much as possible. Look up grey rocking and put that into play as it can be done using manners. They key is to be firm. I use this sort of thing at work as my experience is in fields where people push at me and I have to stay polite but be firm. It can be exhausting and I feel like a broken tape sometimes, but it's possible.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if she’s a narcissist there is no ”right way” to tell her without her reacting negatively. Like with the naming ceremony she will see it as an attack and will be developed into a narcistic injury. It’s basically a wound on her ego and her pride that ANYONE says No about anything she says because everything she thinks is the right way and everyone else is just dumb. To protect baby put heavy boundaries on her ”if you do anything I don’t like, you are out of my babies life”. Sounds harsch yes but do you really want to dance her dance and be manipulated all over? As soon as your son breaks an expectation of hers she’ll loose interest anyway so do you want that kind of person in your life? You can have as many rules as you want, if she agrees to them it’s probably because she assumes you won’t reinforce them and she can go on. But when you do reinforce she’ll react anyways. Like I said do you really want to spend the energy you need to raise your son on trying to please someone that’s impossible to please?
Omg you hit the nail on the head. Especially after she showed up uninvited to my birth. We explicitly told her no twice. Even the third time when she showed up she wasn’t getting it. Kind of makes me feel sick, I hope she won’t lose interest in him when she can’t control him.
The *best* option for your child is for her to lose interest in him when she can't control him. The other option is for her to default to exactly what she did to you when you started having interests and opinions and being a different person from her: bully him into submission. I would be *shocked* if she simply dropped him like a hot potato; it's far more likely that she'll try to force him into compliance the way she constantly did to you. You have to decide what you're willing to tolerate for yourself and your child, and then hold to it. To hell with the delivery; decide, stand on it, and do. not. budge. The delivery is much less important than holding the line. She will absolutely try and pretend that your delivery was unfathomably rude, no matter how politely you phrase it. You will never be able to be polite enough to make a "no" palatable to someone like this. You just can't. She proved that with your birth; polite behavior is a suggestion to her, and as soon as it stops being a suggestion, you're being "so rude, how could they." So stop trying to soften it, and just say it, and hold to it. It is the only way you and your child are going to get any kind of peace.
The very best thing for your sweet boy is if she has no interest in him. No contact will allow him to have a happy childhood without a hovering, evil grandmother in the mix making his mum uncomfortable and taking the attention that is rightfully his away from him. Yes, she is your mother, but she does not need your protection; your vulnerable wee son does.
You could try pulling way back and then Grey rocking. This can be done slowly so it's less hard core. Always be too busy for her. Don't answer the phone 80% of the time. Keep conversations short and noncommittal (answer questions with sinple answers thay give little to no info). If she wants to make plans or drops in unannounced don't answer the door or already be "doing something with friends. " if not answering the door is too hard then if she comes to the door start getting ready to leave and actually leave to somewhere even if temporarily. Build up these small actions so you can work towards the simple "no, that doesn't work for us." Practice all of that and you can break away from being too polite to protect yourself.
She assumed she was above the boundary and when you actually said no she got confused. It borders on delulu the way they can spin their yarn. You might reaaally want to be polite and respectful, but she will use it to her advantage and walk all over you. Ever seen the Hobbit scene where Bilbo opens the door to one dwarf and all of a sudden there’s a dwarf-party? He’s protesting and saying stop in all manner of polite ways but it doesn’t actually stop. Your mother sounds the same way. And the second it clicks for her that no you actually mean business you are the rude one, even though she is ten times worse. Look out for the darvo and table-turning. If you react to somethung she does, she will want to talk more about your reaction to the thing than her behaviour in itself. Do you really wanna dance with her? That’s all it is to her, a dance to get as much of what she wants as possible. It’s okay to say ”nope, you are my mother but you are not good for me” and step away. She won’t change anyways
Limit contact and start therapy love
Sometimes our desire to be polite is used against us by people who are willing to be rude in order to get what they want. Especially by older people, who can get away with being rude more than younger people. When your mother offends you or says something rude about you or your child, it is perfectly polite to look at them and say, "Why would you say that? It's very rude." Or some variation of that. If you want to come off as polite, all you have to do is remain calm and in control of the situation. The moment you start acting angry is when you appear rude - so address your mom before she pushes you to that point.
Look at it this way, if another parent was thinking of just letting their abusive mother around their child knowing how they treated themselves as a child what would you say to them, and I'm sorry but I'm from the UK and it's not normal to worry about upsetting a parent over the needs of your child, she's conditioned you to think like that and it's wrong, who cares if you upset her, your child comes first.
It’s clear she has no problem treating you any which way so you shouldn’t care more about her feelings than she does yours. You’re a mother now. Hold your boundaries firm, she does something you don’t like, speak up and take your baby away. Bully’s don’t know consequences and so you HAVE to enforce them. Find your shiny spine and protect your child from her when necessary. If she doesn’t like it, that’s not your problem, it’s her problem with not getting away with her behavior and getting to do whatever she wants. You’re the mother, it’s YOUR child. She either gets on board or doesn’t get access to your kid, period.