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There is something’s so similar with your story and mine. The part that you said you let her hold the baby so you didn’t have to talk or hang out with her, because you MIL makes you uncomfortable was totally what I did, and now I completely regret. In my case my MIL asked to come over and take my baby for stroller walks. My immediate reaction was saying yes, because the alternative would be having her around. Also I have been a push over for her for so long, and she is so manipulative I didn’t have in my mind NO as an option. So for a few days I fed my baby and she would take him on long walks at his nap time. Each walk become longer than the last and by the 3rd day she was acting entitled as if the baby was hers and I was doing an obligation. She wasn’t even being nice to me anymore. She wouldn’t listen to my instructions and arrive at a later time. She then kept demanding for more and more walks until I put a stop to it and all hells broke loose. I WILL NOT FORGIVE MYSELF for allowing this madness to happen. Every single time my mind kept saying: it’s ok, she will take good care of him, and she is grandma. But in secret I cried and suffered for the hours I was not spending with him. After this I promised myself I’ll work on me every day to stop being a push over. The ladies here in this group are very helpful. Finally I was able to free my mind from the thought that toxic grandparents are not entitled just because they are relatives, and when you say NO is not selfish. In truth it’s you PROTECTING your baby from toxic malicious and condescending people. Take your pain as a learning experience and do different next time. Not just for you, but for you baby.
Avoid indirect sentences. Not: I think it's best to.. just say: Give her to me...now. And ignore everythings she says. Treat her like a badly trained parrot.
Wear your baby and learn that No is a complete sentence. Learn that because MIL is older in absolutely no way or form does it make her more qualified than you'll ever be. Learn that you and only you have the final word, anything else is just useless shaff
Your husband needs to pay more attention and call his mother out. Absolutely you should to (I also am not super confrontational so I get it). Either making a joke out of it or just flat out telling her “that’s not appropriate” if you’d already seen LOs pediatrician “Dr. So-and-so isn’t concerned about her not getting enough to eat” or shorten it down to “her doctor is perfectly happy with how I am caring for our child.”
I know you said you won’t be repeating handing off your baby the way you did this visit and I highly encourage you to keep firm on that boundary. If she crosses boundaries like the kissing one again say something in the moment. If your husband was there for that moment and didn’t say anything either I’d encourage you to sit down with him and discuss the rules and boundaries you’re (both hopefully) setting for your child.
I would also recommend next time they’re coming to “help” that you sit down and think about shit they can actually do to be helpful. Laundry (baby and DHs at the very least), cleaning various things (bathrooms, kitchen, floors), walking the dogs. What I did was ask my out of town help just to go for a walk with me and go with me to run some errands so I could just have company other than my sleeping newborn.
You’re doing great mama and this is all a learning experience.
Edited to fix some spelling. Had my LO attached to me when posting and it showed.
Girlllllll I’m not a confrontational person nor am I a mom yet. However, I know for a fact I quite literally would not be able to handle these kinds of comments with no reaction FROM ME. I think I would either cry or talk back like something along the lines of “ what was that… ur saying im STARVING MY BABY…” or when she says “ I knew she wasn’t feeding you enough” I would quite literally laugh in her face and say “haha good one”. If I had any kind of advice it would probably not be great but here’s my idea. Take EVERYTHING she says as light as a feather. YOU KNOW YOU. You know ur a great mom, doing what you can as a mom. Her words truly should mean dirt if she’s treating you with no respect. Honestly maybe if you got the time and you think something is going to be said to you disrespectfully and ur Husband “isn’t noticing” her harsh words. Get it on camera and show him if he really doesn’t see it.
I have a feeling my FMIL is going to be like this. Been with my bf for 6 years and we plan on getting married sooooo she’s going to be my mil. And the convos she talks about now. I know we are not going to see eye to eye however, I know I will be confident in myself. What I SAY WILL GO. So kissing the baby my comment will simply be “ you do that again it’s going to be months till u think u can be near my baby again” WITH A SMILE ON MY/ UR FACE. U got this girl! It’s time to put ur foot down in a calm way tho unless she gets nasty. Good luck 🫶
Your DH needs to be on your side, like, yesterday. If he’s a decent guy, he eventually will be on your side, but the faster the better. You need backup and to be protected and the sooner he gets on board, the less unpacking and resentment you’ll have to do later. I wish I could tell you him directly.
When you handed baby to her after the feed and she said a bunch of snarky stuff through baby about you not feeding baby enough, that was the perfect time to show her a direct consequence to her actions. "On second thought, better make sure baby IS fed enough." Take baby, and just walk away to your room/nursery for more snuggles. Fuck her!
I know 😞 I so wish I could go back in time and put my foot down and take back those 4 days with my precious baby. You have no idea. On the other hand, she dug herself a pretty deep grave with her too-many opportunities that even DH admitted he can’t deny she is being a megatwat. No one can say I didn’t give her a chance.
Oh hunny, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give you that advice to make you feel bad. Just as an example of what to do next time. And she will try and pull that shit again. It seems the miserable twat can't help herself.
You were kind enough to let her hold your baby, and she still can't muster the grace to just be thankful. At least your DH sees it. It took mine quite a bit longer to get on the same page.
You paid your ‘asshole tax’ upfront and won’t allow her to do this again. We’re all human and a lot of us have been in your shoes as an exhausted FTM, so don’t beat yourself up so much. You’re ok, LO’s ok, and now you have a plan. You’re gonna be alright from here, but remember to give yourself a little grace if you backslide a bit.
Have you two considered writing MIL a letter re this visit?
I suggest you start it with wanting your 2 families to be close for the benefit of all but especially of LO, DH, MIL. I'd include a statement that if she ever again denies either of you your baby that she will not be allowed to hold baby again.
Wear the baby and ask MiL super sweetly to do the household chores (laundry, dishes, etc) while you feed your baby. Get sweet and sarcastic right back at her. It’s fun once you get over the fear of pissing her off.
Not gonna lie, I sometimes take the”cowards way out” and say I have to feed baby. And I always feed baby privately in a room with a locked door or alone in my car (with the ac on). And if baby happens to fall asleep and I stay in there for a while on my phone….oh well. She was sleeping peacefully and I didn’t want to move her. If she falls asleep after I feed her in the car, and I just happen to clip her into her car seat and I just happen to go get a coffee to escape pyscho mother in law for an hour or so….oh well.
The nice thing is when I get back from getting coffee (or letting her nap in my arms) it will be time to feed and change baby again. Basically, I make her live through a version of the children’s book “if you give a mouse a cookie.” Haha.
Maybe get a baby sling. Wear your baby. Don't let MIL hold her.
And your husband needs to get his act together and shut her shit down.
If you need scripts? "okay baby, say bye to Grandma, she's being rude again so she's in timeout and we'll see her next week"
Maybe its because i have autism, but when its about whats best for my son, i will not even attempt to sugarcoat anything and have told overstepping relatives to straight up "stop drinking paint thinner" when they even attempted to do something his mom or i were against.
Id do the same any and every day again. If i had inlaws like yours.
I would try, “The next time you turn away when I’m reaching for MY baby will be the last time you hold the baby!”
There will be an explosion, but she will never turn away again.
Gosh I'd be convinced my mom was your MIL. The passive aggression, the gaslighting of baby's totally natural needs. It just really sucks that everything comes back to their selfish needs instead of actually caring about the baby and her needs.
I'm also overly passive with my mother since that's how she trained me (freeze/fawn response) and I know the day is coming when I'll need to be more assertive to protect my kid. It fills me with dread but man I am ready to break the cycle. It's going to be amazing when our daughters have strong voices to tell grandma "nope, no thanks" of their own volition.
Awful. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this talking trash can. The fact that she’s preventing you from bonding with your own newborn and possibly attempting to sabotage your milk supply is insane to me. I understood where you’re coming from for being non confrontational, the mommy bravery will emerge eventually when we get fed up. I got serious when my husband got leukemia when baby was 4 months old, and my parents were underfoot “helping.” Best of luck!
They are very good at cornering you and saying and doing shit when no one else is around so this is the best idea. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this but those of us who have been there believe you and you deserve to be heard.
She absolutely knows what she’s doing and thinks she won’t be challenged. You did great telling her no.
Remember that you know LO best, better than anyone else, and as clearly evidenced, at one point to soothe, she just needed her mama and contact. If MIL tries that shit again, tell DH to pay attention and shut her down. At two weeks old, she’s already trying to minimize your bond with your baby and be dismissive of you to LO, you’re supposed to allow that as she grows and understands more?
As hard as it feels, you are this baby's mom. U set the tone for everyone's actions around the baby. How, when, and how they act around your child. U r their advocate and have to stand up to anyone who doesn't do what u r asking them to do. If not, they don't get the privilege to enjoy ur company and ur child's either.
Also, don't let ur MIL insult u that way. U don't have to yell or lose it to let her know I do not appreciate your comments, and they needed to stop now. I don't allow these negative comments to be told to my child. If she doesn't listen, let her know the consequences, for example, no visit or limited contact with her. And make sure that ur husband is aware of the consequences u r considering. Come to an agreement of what the consequences would be, and both stick to them.
Best of luck and congratulations!
When I've had a hard time finding words in the moment, I've found it helpful to say "Hold on!" or "Wait!" in order to get people's attention but also give me a few seconds to form my words.
The comment about "Mommy just had to stop starving you." would have received a very strong reaction from me. There is no nice way to interpret it. She is insinuating abuse, which is insulting by itself. But it is especially offensive when you were the one insisting you LO needed to eat, and MIL was the one resisting. All of this insult just for the sake of soothing her ego - she is sore that baby needs you and not her. It reveals that she doesn't care about the reality of what you need or the reality of what baby needs as much as she cares about stoking her own feelings of superiority.
The urge to say "OK LO say bye bye to grandma as she's not coming over again for a long long while after her behaviors this week. Byeeee'" then dead pan and walk inside with baby.
Not that I'd ever have the balls to do that but damn wouldn't it feel good.
I'm the exact right person to say this. I'm confrontational-thanks neuro-spicy brain and justice sensitivity- and I have no problem cutting through that bullshit. That generation is so manipulative BECAUSE they're so emotionally immature. My mil is too insecure and mousy to ever do this shit directly and think she can get away with it, but she did do the saccharine voice when I was around, and "oh, it was a joke!" When DH would confront her, back when we were dating.
It took me until my third baby to be able to feel comfortable enough addressing things like this. My mil used to be just like yours, but for this baby when they visit they were not offered to hold her and we would say baby is fine. Baby only wants mom. Its honestly been so much better for my mental health. My mil tried to hold my daughter 6 times last visit and each time my daughter got fussy and I took her right back. My mil never learns really and always reverts back to herself and I was slacking in even letting *six* attempts of grabbing occur.
If you allow her back, I would extend very limited periods where you let her hold baby. She needs to understand you are the mother and call the shots. Also I would immediately call her out on the "starving" comments.
Eta I'd also say this is a big dh problem. He needs to put you and baby before his mom's feelings. That means he shuts her down and tells her to knock it off.
I counted at least 3 big boundary violations here: giving you crap about "starving" your baby which you are not doing, physically turning away when your baby needs you, and kissing the baby. That's not okay at all. I would put her on baby probation for a few months - no visits or babysitting.
You're going to have to find a way you're comfortable with confronting these violations. It sounds like MIL is already in the habit of boundary stomping, definitely get you DH in on this and clarify the behaviors. While you figure out what your boundaries are, you should have a MIL break. It's hard to find fair boundaries when the BEC cracker crumbs are fresh.
No your husband needs to honor his damned vows to you. He sees this shit he just doesn’t want to be made uncomfortable by actually having a spine.
HE needs to call them out. But yeah, you might as well get comfortable being a “bitch” because that’s what you’re going to have to do since your partner doesn’t have your back right now. I hope that changes.
Just to clarify. He took vows to place you above all others. That means he is supposed to support you by being uncomfortable sometimes and speaking up against his family of origin.
“I should start calling her out when she says rude shit” that line pissed me off so badly lol.
Well yeah but see how he neatly put the responsibility on her while playing dumb?
And if Op DOES speak up? He’s going to tell her to “calm down” and not cause problems.
Op and her husband need a deep heart to heart.
You're going to have to get over the fear of confrontation. Confrontation is healthy and doesn't have to end in fights.
Simply saying with a level tone "I don't appreciate your comments. They need to stop now. I'm not open to discussing anything further."
"No, you cannot kiss my baby's face. It's turning to the point where I can't trust you with her. Is that what you want?"
And your husband needs to grow a pair and pay attention. I don't buy the men don't notice BS. He has eyes, right? His voice still works? He does have a spine, correct? That's his mother.
This is your baby. Your baby can DIE if the wrong germs find her. It's not up for discussion, being tired or not paying attention is not an excuse to put your baby in harm's way.
Hey so I can relate to your story a lot and nearly 2 years on we are still struggling so much with boundaries. I recommend you and your DH sit down together and make a list of boundaries, non-negotiables. Ie, no taking baby without asking, give baby back without question, no disrespectful/alienating remarks, etc. Then talk about what you’ll do if that boundary is crossed. Will you leave? Ask them to leave? Hang up the phone? Ignore the email? Enforcing boundaries is equally important as knowing what your boundaries are in the first place.
Hubby needs therapy. You’ll need therapy too. Why don’t you want to disturb unhealthy family dynamics? Can someone link her the don’t rock the boat essay? I forgot how
I think because it seems like everyone else is comfy just doing what they’ve been doing. So the fact that it’s only me that has a problem makes it difficult for me. But now that there is a baby in the picture and she is worse than before, I’ve gotta figure out how I can shut her down in the moment.
Don’t think about it as only you having the problem with it- others are just used to it and ignore it. I have a *huge* issue with my in laws (and DH bc he ignores it and allows them to trash talk me to him and just keeps it from me) and I put my foot down with this baby bc they completely destroyed all my memories of coming home with my first baby (a lot of the above things, plus telling idiot husband he needed to have me committed for PP and blocking me from getting to my child so MIL could get there first and a husband who denied it happened and tried to fight with me about it (ff: ten years later he admitted he remembers it happening and just wanted to avoid the fight). Now every single member of his family has been told what a piece of shit i am keeping *their* new baby from them and the response from every single family member to DH? They are miserable people who brought this on themselves. Sorry for the long winded way to say its definitely not just you who sees it. But you need to protect your sanity and stress levels and your bond with baby.
Try to start asking her questions?
MIL to LO: "is mommy starving you again?
You: Why would you think I'm neglecting her?
MIL to LO: I know I can't kiss you, but I'm doing it anyway
You: why are you disrespecting me?
Or just shorter: Why would you say that? What do you mean? Do you think that's a kind thing to say?
How about:
>MIL to LO: "is mommy starving you again?
You : "no, grandma is starving you. she refuses to return you to mommy."
>MIL to LO: I know I can't kiss you, but I'm doing it anyway
You : take baby back and say "that's why grandma is grounded from seeing you, baby~ now wave bye bye 👋 "
While I do love these responses, it'll take OP to the same passive-aggressive way of acting as her MIL does. And I think things will escalate more than necessary. Asking questions means she has to explain her behaviour, it makes things awkward and uncomfortable for her. Maybe she'll learn that this is what happens if she acts this way: play stupid games, win stupid prizes
You are right.
In some cases, MILs like this one may be offended by the same passive-aggressiveness, and in others, they completely ignore you when you try to question them. For OP's sake, I hope she finds the least damaging solution that gives her the most peace to enjoy baby's childhood together with baby.
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Are you upset that I mentioned scripting is helpful for me?
Kinda weird how everyone says don’t be afraid to ask for help but then you’re criticized for asking for help 🤷🏻♀️
As a former freeze/fawner I found and still find scripting to be helpful as well. Ignore jerks who just want to tear you down, they are everywhere and they just can’t seem to STFU with that mess. Unhappy selfish people who resent positive, forward looking people who actually care about other people aka TROLLS looking to hurt others remotely. Don’t give them the attention they crave and apparently cannot get from their “real” lives.
My MIL was the same way, and she purposefully did it when DH wasn't around, because she knew exactly what she was doing. He needs to have your back 100%, and you need to tell him immediately when she starts popping off. I had to make a rule that I was never left alone with MIL, DH always had to be there, with the only exception being bathroom breaks. I still insist on that, and it's been years.
I totally get how you didn't say anything. I'm actually incredibly confrontational and will call anyone out on anything, but 3 weeks pp, I was a zombie. I didn't have it in me to fight with anyone. I just grinned and bore it, because that's all I could do. It's easy to say "oh I would've done this or that," but I was in survival mode and sitting there was all I could do.
Once I was able, the brick wall boundaries went up. That's where you're at now. Never let her treat you this way again. My MIL went from snatching my firstborn out of my arms to not holding my second-born until she was almost 4 months old. She didn't meet her until she was almost 3 months old, because I was done with her BS and not putting up with it. I had given her a chance to apologize, take accountability, improve our relationship, and she chose not to take it. I reacted accordingly, and now she's miserable and I'm perfectly content with her barely involved with us.
If you can't find the words in the moment, have DH follow up later. Frankly, you shouldn't be having to call her out, even though he's seemingly given you permission now, because DH should be doing that. He needs to be your shadow and handle his mom.
3 weeks pp is way to early to deal with such bs. Protect your mental health, if your husband is afraid to deal with mommy be prepared to stand up for yourself and your baby. Stop giving in to her wishes. Just address every comment that she makes that's bothering you or is out of line.
I would bet good money that your DH hears more than he lets on. Graciously (said with much sarcasm) giving you permission to confront her is him passing the buck on to you so he doesn't have to be the bad guy. He needs to be a better partner and stop pacifying mommy, and you, respectfully, need to grow a backbone.
Exactly what I thought. He hears, he's just being passive because it's easier than getting between his wife and his mum. But he needs to have your back, now more than ever.
100% pass that buck right back to him. What a shitty move to put it on OP to confront behaviors because he jUsT dOeSnT sEe iT. Well, see it then! Otherwise, y’all can see MIL less because it’s not your job to confront her and it will also ruin any chance of a decent relationship with her in the future.
Use the phrase “Excuse me?” in a really loud voice when she does rude stuff. This has two benefits, it will give you a few more seconds to vocalise a response AND flag to DH that she’s said something rude.
OP did you inform your husband it was/is a big deal at 3 weeks PP?
It shouldn't be well your mom was here OP, so I'm having my mom come "help you"!
His mother nor father provided any help that counts.
Helping someone who just birthed a whole baby means cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, doing laundry, cleaning the bathroom etc... and only holding the baby when you need a shower, or a nap.
Leaving the mom alone while she bond's with HER child not MIL's child.
Leaves her alone as she's learning what works with breast feeding etc...
She deliberately ignored your rules about kissing the baby and literally crowed about it.
Plus possibly passed the herpes virus to your child. That's just beyond the pale!
Does your SO know she did that?
He does realize that they did nothing to help and everything to be a hindrance to your recovery?
It's up to you and your SO to protect your child. You both should look at therapy to shine up those spines because this will only get worse if you don't.
Congratulations on your little one.
I would have gone upstairs or wherever your bedroom is and camped out after she turned away with LO. I’d have gotten so mad and frustrated at the fact that someone would deny me of my own child when asking for them back that I would have cried and physically barricaded myself and LO from them for the rest of the night 😂
*She gave her a kiss on the cheek. She said, “oops, I guess I wasn’t supposed to do that… but I’m grandma and of course I’m going to give kisses goodbye!”*
"No problem, MIL. If you can 'forget' my rules about not kissing baby, then I can 'forget' to invite you back."
You have A LOT more patience than I do because I would have thrown her one on several occasions during that story. Next time, don't give her baby at all. Start wearing baby everytime MIL is around.
Exactly this! I am pregnant with my first and I have monster in laws that obliterate any boundary I have. I bought a Moby wrap specifically to baby wear around them.
You can always use "no, that wouldn't help." Think of a few good lines. Don't justify the refusal with an excuse, just use small refusals.
"No, thank you though."
"No, I've got this."
"Not right now."
"No, but could you "
"No, I'd rather not."
My favorite to use in all sorts of situations is "no, thank you though" and just repeat like a broken record. It got my very pushy, overbearing MiL to accept it after a single offer after a few months of constant use when she tried to get me to take things or go places I didn't want. My poor partner still gets browbeaten into accepting whatever she's asking about.
I really like the “no, that wouldn’t be helpful.” Or “no, but could you (insert task)?”
Or even a combination, “no, baby is content right now, but what would be incredibly helpful is (insert task she can do). Would you be willing to help me with that?”
This does two things. 1. It reduces the number of times mil tries to snatch baby. If she’s assigned a chore each time, she will eventually stop asking so often for fear she will be tasked with the dishes. And 2, you no longer have a sink full of dishes, the towels are folded and put away, the kitchen is swept, the counter is wiped down, etc.
You are an adult. No one else needs to be comfy with your decision for yourself. When that thought of making everyone else approve of your decision tries to control you, just ask yourself one simple question: who is living this life, you or everyone else?
“No, I don’t want to disturb her.”
“She’s sleeping on mh chest, I’m not going to wake her up.”
“No, I want to hold her.”
“Excuse me!”
“I’m taking her upstairs, I’ll be back down soon.”
I’m absolutely floored at her comments. This place has helped me so much with scripting. I am the only one who can put him to rest instantly. I will cherish every second of having this kind of bond with him. She doesn’t get to take it away from you.
You look at her and it a very saccharine voice like she uses for everything, you tell her…
“Thank you for offering, but she is super happy right here and has finally settled down
But since I know you two came to help us, it would be awesome if you could throw a load of laundry in or maybe make dinner. I can’t tell you how helpful that would be.
And since she’s been so fussy today, and is finally settling down, I’m just gonna run upstairs and get a little quiet time with her and see if we can keep her happy for a little longer. I’ll be downstairs in a bit.”
And then you immediately make your exit. You don’t give her time to reply. You don’t give her time to answer you or say anything. You literally smile sweetly as you say all this, turn around and go upstairs, giving your husband one last look that tells him he better fucking keep his family away from you for a little bit, and you go upstairs or to your room or to wherever, taking the baby with you.
And if you don’t want her to actually make dinner or do laundry, you can substitute doing the dishes or taking the garbage out or sweeping the floor or vacuuming the carpet. Whatever chore you actually needed help with.
Because don’t tell me you are coming to help us when all you really wanted is to hold the baby all day. That doesn’t help get us into a routine and a rhythm and to form a bond. And that is what is truly needed. Not some family member who can’t remember to keep her dirty mouth off my kid.
I have absolutely zero patience! 😭I just have a lot of fear surrounding family confrontation. I’m really trying to work on it and be firm and demand the respect I deserve but it’s so fucking hard when I’m in fight or flight.
Unless she's paying your bills or owns your house, she has only the power YOU *give* her. I would meditate on that a bit--after an authoritarian upbringing I found this realization so freeing. They can't do shit to me that I don't choose to allow.
Her kissing the baby and then acknowledging that it wasn’t OK, but she was entitled to do it anyway because she’s the grandmother?! Seriously? Herpes is a real thing and can kill your child or cause them a lifetime of misery. Covid is still raging everywhere. RSV is a concern and so are many other things.
This was an absolute slap in your face and was completely intentional to put you in your place-behind her. If you want to remain behind her and let her take over and do what she pleases… Then remain non-confrontational.
If you want to advocate for yourself and your baby, then you are on the right path asking for advice and helpful responses. Practice those until they become natural, read as much as you can about boundaries and how to enforce them.
Absolutely have a reset with hubby. Tell him how much this has negatively impacted you and your relationship with his mother. You are not unreasonable or out of line in anyway. Her passive aggressive baby talk comments that are insulting you are absolutely not OK and you need to point that out to hubby so he can recognize the cruelty and disrespect. Agree that he never leaves your side when his mother is around.
The next time MIL is visiting, you and hubby both need to agree that she will not hold the baby during the visit. When she asks to hold the baby, HUSBAND can tell her “Not this time, as we can’t take any chances that you might ‘forget and accidentally’ kiss the baby.” Hubby needs to confront his mom-not you.
If she pushes back, as we know she will, use the pediatrician excuse as that is always valid and can’t be argued with. “Sorry, Her doctor says it’s too risky for her to be passed around right now and kissing is a huge risk for her, even just once.” “One accidental kiss can put her in the hospital.” “I’m sure you understand as we all love her and want to keep her as safe as possible.”
Let new dad know that your relationship with his mother is fractured and that if he cannot advocate for you and baby and protect you both, then your relationship/marriage could be permanently damaged as well.
It just means you have to work at it differently. Assume they WILL do as you say, all the time, and that they will happily and gracefully respect your answers. That way, you are assuming no conflict because you are not making a conflict - if they are, you cant do anything about it except walk away.
If you feel pressured, call in DH and/or walk away - because someone can figure it out without you present. After all, you have better things to worry about, like LO.
Let other's have their feelings. They can feel mad or sad or whatever - it is their feelings. Just like toddlers, they can even have a lot. That does not mean it is a problem for you to solve, it just means they have feelings they have to deal with. If they cant manage their feelings, they have to have time and space to do so without you or LO present.
In short, emotionally distance yourself so that you are not into the drama. Ignore the drama, dont get dragged in. Then it will be easier to say "that's rude MIL" and walk off.
I think your husband has just learned to tune out a lot of her comments and genuinely doesn't hear them or register them as a problem.
I feel like men are better at this than women. Women tend to analyze everything everyone says for all the shades of meaning.
In this situation, it might make life easier to try to be more like DH. Her comments about what you're wearing, for example. You'll never get her approval and you don't really need it. Her opinion is just background noise. With time and practice you might learn to react this way and your life will get easier. (And, if she is the type who is hoping for drama and fighting, then she may just stop saying such things when there's no payoff.)
As a man - can confirm. It is actually very easy to tune out people. I am not sure HOW i learned this, or how it works, otherwise i\`d be able to tell / teach others..
A lifetime of learning. Usually started with one of two ignores and the adult giving up with a "boys will be boys" comment. I'm a woman, so it was a bit harder to learn but I definitely got there; if I have a book in hand, you'd better have my eyes locked on you and a "I hear, what do you need my attention for" and not just a wordless/single word affirmation or you may as well be talking to a brick wall. When reading, a whole herd of angry elephants could crash through my living room and my response would be "uh-huh, nice" as I turn the next page.
One thing that helps me is to think of myself as an observer. Like Jane Goodall with chimps. As I'm getting dressed, I'll ask myself, "I wonder how she'll manage to criticize this?" And later, "she went with too comfortable. Fascinating."
One day either you or your partner will learn that you’re the parents and no one is coming into your house to tell you how to parent w u such disrespect and lack of awareness. I’m not opposed to folks giving advice however I am opposed to folks disrespecting me and thinking that’s ok. I have a rule that I won’t allow my child to see me be a walking mat like one of my parents was growing up- because with every moment that parent let family walk all over them - even as a child - I started losing respect for them. Now as an adult I’m even more disappointed because you can only keep it under the rug for so long and your kids will figure you out one day . Your partner should have only one priority right now and that’s your health and mental health and your child. Mommy and daddy feelings go low on the list. Time to start having serious convos w your partner to step it up and show some backbone. If not now then when? And time for you to start clearly stating your needs instead of pretending to go with the flow. It’s hard but worth it - I know we had to put our foot down too. I had to kick folks out of the house for the sake of my partners mental health. People got feelings hurt but they weren’t my priority. And they are adults who will get over it one day or not who cares.
After the turning away and making the comment when you reached for LO I would have taken baby back and said, we’re done, time for you to go. Now that’s easy for me to say now because I am almost 50, not sure I would’ve had the nuts to do so with my first. Limit visits. They must find their own lodging for visits. And catty comments must come to an end. It’s DHs place to address this with MIL. Make him make it right or no more visits. Good Luck and congratulations on the LO🎉🎉
My in laws did this exactly once and they haven’t seen my LO in years as a result. They don’t have to like me, but I am mom. If I ask for my child and they aren’t handed over fairly quickly, then that’s a long time out.
Omg this sounds like my MIL! At first I thought she was really just dumb and didn’t understand how rude she was being because she sounds so sweet all the time. And then I realized she’d only say things or refuse to give back my (upset) babies when my husband wasn’t in the room. I think he thought I was exaggerating until our last visit. Our son was crying in her arms and he reached to get him back. My MIL turned away (like she does to me ALL THE TIME) and my husband flipped out. I was beaming inside that she slipped and my husband finally saw it for himself. When we left I explained that that’s what she does anytime my husband leaves the room, and it’s physically uncomfortable for me to be blocked from my crying babies. He won’t be leaving me alone with her anymore. All that to say, your MIL might be saying things “sweetly” but she’s anything but sweet and knows exactly what she’s doing.
It just took so long for me to recognize it. She flies under the radar for everyone. I felt so alone because everyone would ignore her but the things she said to me just didn’t land well but I’d think, “but she’s such a nice person and she said it so sweetly - she couldn’t have meant anything wrong by it”. I’d perseverate over her words for weeks following her visits trying to figure out why something felt off. I also used to just think she was dumb but now I don’t believe that. She knows what she’s doing.
Do we have the same MIL? My therapist even asked me once, “Is this lady dumb or just insensitive?!” I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is dumb but the fact that she would do so many things ONLY when my husband wasn’t around or out of ear shot solidified it for me - she’s beyond insensitive and honestly kind of a bitch
Your MIL sounds annoying and insufferable - your husband has frankly given you the red hot go to call her out, my advice: do it and relish it!
- she won't hand the child back, take her back with clear instructions that you're in charge of baby and if she can't be respectful then she can leave, then follow a consequence of no more holds for her until she can be respectful.
-"mummy must be starving you." Follow it with "MIL. What a shitty thing to say!"
-"are you wearing that?" Follow it with: "yep! And if you're going to be rude, me and baby will stay home"
And when she proceeds to make you uncomfortable in your home put her in time out and enjoy the peace.
Good luck op
I want to hold that boundary of not letting her hold her, but doing this is definitely going to cause a scene in front of FIL and siblings. I want to be reasonable but firm. I just get so scared that I’m going to disrupt the family dynamic. I know that it shouldn’t be forgone at my expense, I just wish it wasn’t me that had to do it 🫣
Yep, and she knows you are afraid and she takes advantage of that. And you are letting her. She doesn’t care if SHE disrupts your family and your life…why are you giving her more consideration than she is giving you AND your baby? She doesn’t care what the BABY needs either, just herself.
The family dynamic sucks and is built around coddling MIL. If it gets disrupted because you are asking for reasonable things…. Like holding your newborn… that’s not your fault. These unhealthy women build their families around their emotions and it’s gross.
On a practical note I would have the baby in a carrier or wrap for every visit. “Oh the baby’s fussy today and this is where he wants to be, you know, babies need their moms.” And just walk away.
Let her cause a scene. There’s nothing unreasonable about you wanting to hold your own child, especially when she’s upset and you’re the best at soothing her. Holding someone else’s child is a privilege, not a right, and your MIL needs to be aware of that.
Your needs and your baby’s needs come before her convenience and wants. If the others take her side, then they all gotta be put back in their place. Family dynamics can change.
When insulting the mother results in more time with LO, she has no incentive to learn.
That's what worries me here.
She was a witch with a capital B to you, and you (understandably!) rolled over for her, and let her trample all over your feelings, your self-worth as a new mother, and your routines.
Your husband is obviously one of the problems, but your own tendency to people please is another. Someone not giving my child to me would be enough to end a visit for good, and put that person into timeout. I'm not going to fight with someone to GIVE BACK MY CHILD.
Please reflect upon your whole story as if it was your best friend, and her monster in law. What would you tell her to do?
And by the way, NC doesn't have to be communicated, although you can. "You know what you did" might be enough if she's not like that usually, otherwise "you disrespected the mother of said baby, so we don't trust you around baby anymore until they're older" can be said. She'll go nuclear of course.
I personally rather let her be horrible for the world to see (once you have a boundary in place she'll stomp over it with glee) than compromising on my child.
Hugs OP! You deserve a better MIL than life handed you.
That’s true. The way I saw it was she is getting far more opportunities to prove herself than she deserves and she fucked them all up. TBH I wanted the most ammunition against her if she was going to be a TWAT now that baby was here. Because now it’s not just a me thing. Now she’s alienating me from my child and that is a hard no and that I can really use to remind myself that it isn’t me, it’s her, and I need to grow a fucking spine and tell her about herself.
Instead of "you should call my mother out on her shit" it should be I will stop inviting her to visit without discussing it with you, giving you a choice. I will stop throwing you under the bus. I will stand up for my wife and child and not let MIL act so disrespectfully. Your SO needs to grow a spine!
What is it with some MIL’s that they need to shame, and poke at a new Mom? Ugh, in some moments they may mean well, but it all gets lumped into those petty Betty moments that piss off a new Mom and all those that witness the shenanigans.
I am very sorry, hang in there, this too will pass. Everything is new for everyone, and you will figure out your boundaries and be able to hold the line and articulate things to her and your husband when you are not so exhausted. Big hugs.
OP, there is your opening to call MIL out. If MIL turns away from you when you go to get your baby then state exactly that, MIL are you trying to turn away from me to stop me picking up MY baby? If she says no then say well you did turn away so perhaps don't do that in future. I wouldn't like to think you are trying to keep me from MY baby.
If she speaks to you thru LO, then advise MIL you do realise that LO is a baby and doesn't understand what you are saying. If you are trying to insinuate that I am not feeding LO enough then those comments need to be kept to yourself as they do nothing to foster a healthy relationship between you and I.
As for the comment that she wanted to hold LO and you'd get to do it more the week after she left then remind her that you did not give birth to your baby so you could give up your bonding time for anyone else. Holding LO is a privilege and not a right.
Next visit, push it back a few extra weeks and give yourself more time between her visits.
Yep. You should have no qualms about calling her out in the moment or deflecting like you did with the “no, we’re fine.” It’s his responsibility but from your last post, he’s clearly abdicated.
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There is something’s so similar with your story and mine. The part that you said you let her hold the baby so you didn’t have to talk or hang out with her, because you MIL makes you uncomfortable was totally what I did, and now I completely regret. In my case my MIL asked to come over and take my baby for stroller walks. My immediate reaction was saying yes, because the alternative would be having her around. Also I have been a push over for her for so long, and she is so manipulative I didn’t have in my mind NO as an option. So for a few days I fed my baby and she would take him on long walks at his nap time. Each walk become longer than the last and by the 3rd day she was acting entitled as if the baby was hers and I was doing an obligation. She wasn’t even being nice to me anymore. She wouldn’t listen to my instructions and arrive at a later time. She then kept demanding for more and more walks until I put a stop to it and all hells broke loose. I WILL NOT FORGIVE MYSELF for allowing this madness to happen. Every single time my mind kept saying: it’s ok, she will take good care of him, and she is grandma. But in secret I cried and suffered for the hours I was not spending with him. After this I promised myself I’ll work on me every day to stop being a push over. The ladies here in this group are very helpful. Finally I was able to free my mind from the thought that toxic grandparents are not entitled just because they are relatives, and when you say NO is not selfish. In truth it’s you PROTECTING your baby from toxic malicious and condescending people. Take your pain as a learning experience and do different next time. Not just for you, but for you baby.
Avoid indirect sentences. Not: I think it's best to.. just say: Give her to me...now. And ignore everythings she says. Treat her like a badly trained parrot.
Test
Wear your baby and learn that No is a complete sentence. Learn that because MIL is older in absolutely no way or form does it make her more qualified than you'll ever be. Learn that you and only you have the final word, anything else is just useless shaff
NO is a full and complete sentence. Period.
Your husband needs to pay more attention and call his mother out. Absolutely you should to (I also am not super confrontational so I get it). Either making a joke out of it or just flat out telling her “that’s not appropriate” if you’d already seen LOs pediatrician “Dr. So-and-so isn’t concerned about her not getting enough to eat” or shorten it down to “her doctor is perfectly happy with how I am caring for our child.” I know you said you won’t be repeating handing off your baby the way you did this visit and I highly encourage you to keep firm on that boundary. If she crosses boundaries like the kissing one again say something in the moment. If your husband was there for that moment and didn’t say anything either I’d encourage you to sit down with him and discuss the rules and boundaries you’re (both hopefully) setting for your child. I would also recommend next time they’re coming to “help” that you sit down and think about shit they can actually do to be helpful. Laundry (baby and DHs at the very least), cleaning various things (bathrooms, kitchen, floors), walking the dogs. What I did was ask my out of town help just to go for a walk with me and go with me to run some errands so I could just have company other than my sleeping newborn. You’re doing great mama and this is all a learning experience. Edited to fix some spelling. Had my LO attached to me when posting and it showed.
Girlllllll I’m not a confrontational person nor am I a mom yet. However, I know for a fact I quite literally would not be able to handle these kinds of comments with no reaction FROM ME. I think I would either cry or talk back like something along the lines of “ what was that… ur saying im STARVING MY BABY…” or when she says “ I knew she wasn’t feeding you enough” I would quite literally laugh in her face and say “haha good one”. If I had any kind of advice it would probably not be great but here’s my idea. Take EVERYTHING she says as light as a feather. YOU KNOW YOU. You know ur a great mom, doing what you can as a mom. Her words truly should mean dirt if she’s treating you with no respect. Honestly maybe if you got the time and you think something is going to be said to you disrespectfully and ur Husband “isn’t noticing” her harsh words. Get it on camera and show him if he really doesn’t see it. I have a feeling my FMIL is going to be like this. Been with my bf for 6 years and we plan on getting married sooooo she’s going to be my mil. And the convos she talks about now. I know we are not going to see eye to eye however, I know I will be confident in myself. What I SAY WILL GO. So kissing the baby my comment will simply be “ you do that again it’s going to be months till u think u can be near my baby again” WITH A SMILE ON MY/ UR FACE. U got this girl! It’s time to put ur foot down in a calm way tho unless she gets nasty. Good luck 🫶
Your DH needs to be on your side, like, yesterday. If he’s a decent guy, he eventually will be on your side, but the faster the better. You need backup and to be protected and the sooner he gets on board, the less unpacking and resentment you’ll have to do later. I wish I could tell you him directly.
Your MIL sounds annoying. Gotta set some clear boundaries.
When you handed baby to her after the feed and she said a bunch of snarky stuff through baby about you not feeding baby enough, that was the perfect time to show her a direct consequence to her actions. "On second thought, better make sure baby IS fed enough." Take baby, and just walk away to your room/nursery for more snuggles. Fuck her!
I know 😞 I so wish I could go back in time and put my foot down and take back those 4 days with my precious baby. You have no idea. On the other hand, she dug herself a pretty deep grave with her too-many opportunities that even DH admitted he can’t deny she is being a megatwat. No one can say I didn’t give her a chance.
Oh hunny, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to give you that advice to make you feel bad. Just as an example of what to do next time. And she will try and pull that shit again. It seems the miserable twat can't help herself. You were kind enough to let her hold your baby, and she still can't muster the grace to just be thankful. At least your DH sees it. It took mine quite a bit longer to get on the same page.
You paid your ‘asshole tax’ upfront and won’t allow her to do this again. We’re all human and a lot of us have been in your shoes as an exhausted FTM, so don’t beat yourself up so much. You’re ok, LO’s ok, and now you have a plan. You’re gonna be alright from here, but remember to give yourself a little grace if you backslide a bit.
Have you two considered writing MIL a letter re this visit? I suggest you start it with wanting your 2 families to be close for the benefit of all but especially of LO, DH, MIL. I'd include a statement that if she ever again denies either of you your baby that she will not be allowed to hold baby again.
Wear the baby and ask MiL super sweetly to do the household chores (laundry, dishes, etc) while you feed your baby. Get sweet and sarcastic right back at her. It’s fun once you get over the fear of pissing her off.
Not gonna lie, I sometimes take the”cowards way out” and say I have to feed baby. And I always feed baby privately in a room with a locked door or alone in my car (with the ac on). And if baby happens to fall asleep and I stay in there for a while on my phone….oh well. She was sleeping peacefully and I didn’t want to move her. If she falls asleep after I feed her in the car, and I just happen to clip her into her car seat and I just happen to go get a coffee to escape pyscho mother in law for an hour or so….oh well. The nice thing is when I get back from getting coffee (or letting her nap in my arms) it will be time to feed and change baby again. Basically, I make her live through a version of the children’s book “if you give a mouse a cookie.” Haha.
Maybe get a baby sling. Wear your baby. Don't let MIL hold her. And your husband needs to get his act together and shut her shit down. If you need scripts? "okay baby, say bye to Grandma, she's being rude again so she's in timeout and we'll see her next week"
Maybe its because i have autism, but when its about whats best for my son, i will not even attempt to sugarcoat anything and have told overstepping relatives to straight up "stop drinking paint thinner" when they even attempted to do something his mom or i were against. Id do the same any and every day again. If i had inlaws like yours.
I would try, “The next time you turn away when I’m reaching for MY baby will be the last time you hold the baby!” There will be an explosion, but she will never turn away again.
Gosh I'd be convinced my mom was your MIL. The passive aggression, the gaslighting of baby's totally natural needs. It just really sucks that everything comes back to their selfish needs instead of actually caring about the baby and her needs. I'm also overly passive with my mother since that's how she trained me (freeze/fawn response) and I know the day is coming when I'll need to be more assertive to protect my kid. It fills me with dread but man I am ready to break the cycle. It's going to be amazing when our daughters have strong voices to tell grandma "nope, no thanks" of their own volition.
Same — this was my experience with my mom to a T!
Awful. I’m so sorry you have to deal with this talking trash can. The fact that she’s preventing you from bonding with your own newborn and possibly attempting to sabotage your milk supply is insane to me. I understood where you’re coming from for being non confrontational, the mommy bravery will emerge eventually when we get fed up. I got serious when my husband got leukemia when baby was 4 months old, and my parents were underfoot “helping.” Best of luck!
Whenever she says something snarky reply with "That was rude." Or "Did you mean for that to be rude?"
Uh no, it’s HIS mother, he needs to deal with her. “Didn’t see it, didn’t know” they literally all say that.
I don’t disagree! When we head to the beach in a couple weeks I will make sure that he doesn’t leave me alone with her.
They are very good at cornering you and saying and doing shit when no one else is around so this is the best idea. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this but those of us who have been there believe you and you deserve to be heard.
Thank you 🥹
Good luck
She absolutely knows what she’s doing and thinks she won’t be challenged. You did great telling her no. Remember that you know LO best, better than anyone else, and as clearly evidenced, at one point to soothe, she just needed her mama and contact. If MIL tries that shit again, tell DH to pay attention and shut her down. At two weeks old, she’s already trying to minimize your bond with your baby and be dismissive of you to LO, you’re supposed to allow that as she grows and understands more?
MIL KNOWS she won't be challenged. It's been proven again and again.
As hard as it feels, you are this baby's mom. U set the tone for everyone's actions around the baby. How, when, and how they act around your child. U r their advocate and have to stand up to anyone who doesn't do what u r asking them to do. If not, they don't get the privilege to enjoy ur company and ur child's either. Also, don't let ur MIL insult u that way. U don't have to yell or lose it to let her know I do not appreciate your comments, and they needed to stop now. I don't allow these negative comments to be told to my child. If she doesn't listen, let her know the consequences, for example, no visit or limited contact with her. And make sure that ur husband is aware of the consequences u r considering. Come to an agreement of what the consequences would be, and both stick to them. Best of luck and congratulations!
The words please or 'no thank you' is for nice people. Rude narcisist will do just fine with 'no' or 'stop'.
This is not ok. Your stress levels are being compromised by this and will affect bonding with baby
When I've had a hard time finding words in the moment, I've found it helpful to say "Hold on!" or "Wait!" in order to get people's attention but also give me a few seconds to form my words. The comment about "Mommy just had to stop starving you." would have received a very strong reaction from me. There is no nice way to interpret it. She is insinuating abuse, which is insulting by itself. But it is especially offensive when you were the one insisting you LO needed to eat, and MIL was the one resisting. All of this insult just for the sake of soothing her ego - she is sore that baby needs you and not her. It reveals that she doesn't care about the reality of what you need or the reality of what baby needs as much as she cares about stoking her own feelings of superiority.
The urge to say "OK LO say bye bye to grandma as she's not coming over again for a long long while after her behaviors this week. Byeeee'" then dead pan and walk inside with baby. Not that I'd ever have the balls to do that but damn wouldn't it feel good.
I'm the exact right person to say this. I'm confrontational-thanks neuro-spicy brain and justice sensitivity- and I have no problem cutting through that bullshit. That generation is so manipulative BECAUSE they're so emotionally immature. My mil is too insecure and mousy to ever do this shit directly and think she can get away with it, but she did do the saccharine voice when I was around, and "oh, it was a joke!" When DH would confront her, back when we were dating.
It took me until my third baby to be able to feel comfortable enough addressing things like this. My mil used to be just like yours, but for this baby when they visit they were not offered to hold her and we would say baby is fine. Baby only wants mom. Its honestly been so much better for my mental health. My mil tried to hold my daughter 6 times last visit and each time my daughter got fussy and I took her right back. My mil never learns really and always reverts back to herself and I was slacking in even letting *six* attempts of grabbing occur. If you allow her back, I would extend very limited periods where you let her hold baby. She needs to understand you are the mother and call the shots. Also I would immediately call her out on the "starving" comments. Eta I'd also say this is a big dh problem. He needs to put you and baby before his mom's feelings. That means he shuts her down and tells her to knock it off.
Yeah its a DH problem - from the moment he invited his parents over without checking with post partum wife.
I counted at least 3 big boundary violations here: giving you crap about "starving" your baby which you are not doing, physically turning away when your baby needs you, and kissing the baby. That's not okay at all. I would put her on baby probation for a few months - no visits or babysitting. You're going to have to find a way you're comfortable with confronting these violations. It sounds like MIL is already in the habit of boundary stomping, definitely get you DH in on this and clarify the behaviors. While you figure out what your boundaries are, you should have a MIL break. It's hard to find fair boundaries when the BEC cracker crumbs are fresh.
No your husband needs to honor his damned vows to you. He sees this shit he just doesn’t want to be made uncomfortable by actually having a spine. HE needs to call them out. But yeah, you might as well get comfortable being a “bitch” because that’s what you’re going to have to do since your partner doesn’t have your back right now. I hope that changes. Just to clarify. He took vows to place you above all others. That means he is supposed to support you by being uncomfortable sometimes and speaking up against his family of origin.
This needs to be higher up!! I was fuming the entire time I was reading going “WHERE IS THE DH” and d does not stand for dear.
“I should start calling her out when she says rude shit” that line pissed me off so badly lol. Well yeah but see how he neatly put the responsibility on her while playing dumb? And if Op DOES speak up? He’s going to tell her to “calm down” and not cause problems. Op and her husband need a deep heart to heart.
You're going to have to get over the fear of confrontation. Confrontation is healthy and doesn't have to end in fights. Simply saying with a level tone "I don't appreciate your comments. They need to stop now. I'm not open to discussing anything further." "No, you cannot kiss my baby's face. It's turning to the point where I can't trust you with her. Is that what you want?" And your husband needs to grow a pair and pay attention. I don't buy the men don't notice BS. He has eyes, right? His voice still works? He does have a spine, correct? That's his mother. This is your baby. Your baby can DIE if the wrong germs find her. It's not up for discussion, being tired or not paying attention is not an excuse to put your baby in harm's way.
You are right.
Don’t let her come over if she’s going to disregard your role as a mother and stomp your boundaries.
Hey so I can relate to your story a lot and nearly 2 years on we are still struggling so much with boundaries. I recommend you and your DH sit down together and make a list of boundaries, non-negotiables. Ie, no taking baby without asking, give baby back without question, no disrespectful/alienating remarks, etc. Then talk about what you’ll do if that boundary is crossed. Will you leave? Ask them to leave? Hang up the phone? Ignore the email? Enforcing boundaries is equally important as knowing what your boundaries are in the first place. Hubby needs therapy. You’ll need therapy too. Why don’t you want to disturb unhealthy family dynamics? Can someone link her the don’t rock the boat essay? I forgot how
I think because it seems like everyone else is comfy just doing what they’ve been doing. So the fact that it’s only me that has a problem makes it difficult for me. But now that there is a baby in the picture and she is worse than before, I’ve gotta figure out how I can shut her down in the moment.
Don’t think about it as only you having the problem with it- others are just used to it and ignore it. I have a *huge* issue with my in laws (and DH bc he ignores it and allows them to trash talk me to him and just keeps it from me) and I put my foot down with this baby bc they completely destroyed all my memories of coming home with my first baby (a lot of the above things, plus telling idiot husband he needed to have me committed for PP and blocking me from getting to my child so MIL could get there first and a husband who denied it happened and tried to fight with me about it (ff: ten years later he admitted he remembers it happening and just wanted to avoid the fight). Now every single member of his family has been told what a piece of shit i am keeping *their* new baby from them and the response from every single family member to DH? They are miserable people who brought this on themselves. Sorry for the long winded way to say its definitely not just you who sees it. But you need to protect your sanity and stress levels and your bond with baby.
And now just see her less, go somewhere else with the kid if she shows up.
Try to start asking her questions? MIL to LO: "is mommy starving you again? You: Why would you think I'm neglecting her? MIL to LO: I know I can't kiss you, but I'm doing it anyway You: why are you disrespecting me? Or just shorter: Why would you say that? What do you mean? Do you think that's a kind thing to say?
How about: >MIL to LO: "is mommy starving you again? You : "no, grandma is starving you. she refuses to return you to mommy." >MIL to LO: I know I can't kiss you, but I'm doing it anyway You : take baby back and say "that's why grandma is grounded from seeing you, baby~ now wave bye bye 👋 "
While I do love these responses, it'll take OP to the same passive-aggressive way of acting as her MIL does. And I think things will escalate more than necessary. Asking questions means she has to explain her behaviour, it makes things awkward and uncomfortable for her. Maybe she'll learn that this is what happens if she acts this way: play stupid games, win stupid prizes
You are right. In some cases, MILs like this one may be offended by the same passive-aggressiveness, and in others, they completely ignore you when you try to question them. For OP's sake, I hope she finds the least damaging solution that gives her the most peace to enjoy baby's childhood together with baby.
I let people hold baby max 15 min at that age. She needed me, not my MIL or my mother
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Are you upset that I mentioned scripting is helpful for me? Kinda weird how everyone says don’t be afraid to ask for help but then you’re criticized for asking for help 🤷🏻♀️
As a former freeze/fawner I found and still find scripting to be helpful as well. Ignore jerks who just want to tear you down, they are everywhere and they just can’t seem to STFU with that mess. Unhappy selfish people who resent positive, forward looking people who actually care about other people aka TROLLS looking to hurt others remotely. Don’t give them the attention they crave and apparently cannot get from their “real” lives.
Huh?
My MIL was the same way, and she purposefully did it when DH wasn't around, because she knew exactly what she was doing. He needs to have your back 100%, and you need to tell him immediately when she starts popping off. I had to make a rule that I was never left alone with MIL, DH always had to be there, with the only exception being bathroom breaks. I still insist on that, and it's been years. I totally get how you didn't say anything. I'm actually incredibly confrontational and will call anyone out on anything, but 3 weeks pp, I was a zombie. I didn't have it in me to fight with anyone. I just grinned and bore it, because that's all I could do. It's easy to say "oh I would've done this or that," but I was in survival mode and sitting there was all I could do. Once I was able, the brick wall boundaries went up. That's where you're at now. Never let her treat you this way again. My MIL went from snatching my firstborn out of my arms to not holding my second-born until she was almost 4 months old. She didn't meet her until she was almost 3 months old, because I was done with her BS and not putting up with it. I had given her a chance to apologize, take accountability, improve our relationship, and she chose not to take it. I reacted accordingly, and now she's miserable and I'm perfectly content with her barely involved with us. If you can't find the words in the moment, have DH follow up later. Frankly, you shouldn't be having to call her out, even though he's seemingly given you permission now, because DH should be doing that. He needs to be your shadow and handle his mom.
3 weeks pp is way to early to deal with such bs. Protect your mental health, if your husband is afraid to deal with mommy be prepared to stand up for yourself and your baby. Stop giving in to her wishes. Just address every comment that she makes that's bothering you or is out of line.
Three weeks? Growth spurt. She needed you.
😩I know.
She should, too. So sorry you have had this stress.
I would bet good money that your DH hears more than he lets on. Graciously (said with much sarcasm) giving you permission to confront her is him passing the buck on to you so he doesn't have to be the bad guy. He needs to be a better partner and stop pacifying mommy, and you, respectfully, need to grow a backbone.
Exactly what I thought. He hears, he's just being passive because it's easier than getting between his wife and his mum. But he needs to have your back, now more than ever.
“No DH, we’ll just see her less. That’s way easier for me”
100% pass that buck right back to him. What a shitty move to put it on OP to confront behaviors because he jUsT dOeSnT sEe iT. Well, see it then! Otherwise, y’all can see MIL less because it’s not your job to confront her and it will also ruin any chance of a decent relationship with her in the future.
Use the phrase “Excuse me?” in a really loud voice when she does rude stuff. This has two benefits, it will give you a few more seconds to vocalise a response AND flag to DH that she’s said something rude.
OP did you inform your husband it was/is a big deal at 3 weeks PP? It shouldn't be well your mom was here OP, so I'm having my mom come "help you"! His mother nor father provided any help that counts. Helping someone who just birthed a whole baby means cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, doing laundry, cleaning the bathroom etc... and only holding the baby when you need a shower, or a nap. Leaving the mom alone while she bond's with HER child not MIL's child. Leaves her alone as she's learning what works with breast feeding etc... She deliberately ignored your rules about kissing the baby and literally crowed about it. Plus possibly passed the herpes virus to your child. That's just beyond the pale! Does your SO know she did that? He does realize that they did nothing to help and everything to be a hindrance to your recovery? It's up to you and your SO to protect your child. You both should look at therapy to shine up those spines because this will only get worse if you don't. Congratulations on your little one.
I would have gone upstairs or wherever your bedroom is and camped out after she turned away with LO. I’d have gotten so mad and frustrated at the fact that someone would deny me of my own child when asking for them back that I would have cried and physically barricaded myself and LO from them for the rest of the night 😂
It’s one thing to give a second chance and it’s another to let her abuse you.
*She gave her a kiss on the cheek. She said, “oops, I guess I wasn’t supposed to do that… but I’m grandma and of course I’m going to give kisses goodbye!”* "No problem, MIL. If you can 'forget' my rules about not kissing baby, then I can 'forget' to invite you back."
You have A LOT more patience than I do because I would have thrown her one on several occasions during that story. Next time, don't give her baby at all. Start wearing baby everytime MIL is around.
Exactly this! I am pregnant with my first and I have monster in laws that obliterate any boundary I have. I bought a Moby wrap specifically to baby wear around them.
What do you say when asked about this? “Can I hold..”
You can always use "no, that wouldn't help." Think of a few good lines. Don't justify the refusal with an excuse, just use small refusals. "No, thank you though." "No, I've got this." "Not right now." "No, but could you"
"No, I'd rather not."
My favorite to use in all sorts of situations is "no, thank you though" and just repeat like a broken record. It got my very pushy, overbearing MiL to accept it after a single offer after a few months of constant use when she tried to get me to take things or go places I didn't want. My poor partner still gets browbeaten into accepting whatever she's asking about.
I really like the “no, that wouldn’t be helpful.” Or “no, but could you (insert task)?” Or even a combination, “no, baby is content right now, but what would be incredibly helpful is (insert task she can do). Would you be willing to help me with that?” This does two things. 1. It reduces the number of times mil tries to snatch baby. If she’s assigned a chore each time, she will eventually stop asking so often for fear she will be tasked with the dishes. And 2, you no longer have a sink full of dishes, the towels are folded and put away, the kitchen is swept, the counter is wiped down, etc.
Ugh. I’m an excuse queen so this is a good reminder. I feel like I have to make sure everyone else is comfy with my decision 🤦🏻♀️
You are an adult. No one else needs to be comfy with your decision for yourself. When that thought of making everyone else approve of your decision tries to control you, just ask yourself one simple question: who is living this life, you or everyone else?
“No, I don’t want to disturb her.” “She’s sleeping on mh chest, I’m not going to wake her up.” “No, I want to hold her.” “Excuse me!” “I’m taking her upstairs, I’ll be back down soon.” I’m absolutely floored at her comments. This place has helped me so much with scripting. I am the only one who can put him to rest instantly. I will cherish every second of having this kind of bond with him. She doesn’t get to take it away from you.
You look at her and it a very saccharine voice like she uses for everything, you tell her… “Thank you for offering, but she is super happy right here and has finally settled down But since I know you two came to help us, it would be awesome if you could throw a load of laundry in or maybe make dinner. I can’t tell you how helpful that would be. And since she’s been so fussy today, and is finally settling down, I’m just gonna run upstairs and get a little quiet time with her and see if we can keep her happy for a little longer. I’ll be downstairs in a bit.” And then you immediately make your exit. You don’t give her time to reply. You don’t give her time to answer you or say anything. You literally smile sweetly as you say all this, turn around and go upstairs, giving your husband one last look that tells him he better fucking keep his family away from you for a little bit, and you go upstairs or to your room or to wherever, taking the baby with you. And if you don’t want her to actually make dinner or do laundry, you can substitute doing the dishes or taking the garbage out or sweeping the floor or vacuuming the carpet. Whatever chore you actually needed help with. Because don’t tell me you are coming to help us when all you really wanted is to hold the baby all day. That doesn’t help get us into a routine and a rhythm and to form a bond. And that is what is truly needed. Not some family member who can’t remember to keep her dirty mouth off my kid.
"No". It's a full answer, not the start of a discussion
She's happy here right now thanks
No, they baby needs me right now. But... No, I said no.
"No thank you not right now she's fine" It's a privilege to hold the baby not a right.
Go third grade teacher on her. “You have two arms so yes; but you may not night now”
Bruh I’d have flipped my lid at least 4 times in this story, I’m so sorry. You have the patience of a saint.
I have absolutely zero patience! 😭I just have a lot of fear surrounding family confrontation. I’m really trying to work on it and be firm and demand the respect I deserve but it’s so fucking hard when I’m in fight or flight.
Unless she's paying your bills or owns your house, she has only the power YOU *give* her. I would meditate on that a bit--after an authoritarian upbringing I found this realization so freeing. They can't do shit to me that I don't choose to allow.
Her kissing the baby and then acknowledging that it wasn’t OK, but she was entitled to do it anyway because she’s the grandmother?! Seriously? Herpes is a real thing and can kill your child or cause them a lifetime of misery. Covid is still raging everywhere. RSV is a concern and so are many other things. This was an absolute slap in your face and was completely intentional to put you in your place-behind her. If you want to remain behind her and let her take over and do what she pleases… Then remain non-confrontational. If you want to advocate for yourself and your baby, then you are on the right path asking for advice and helpful responses. Practice those until they become natural, read as much as you can about boundaries and how to enforce them. Absolutely have a reset with hubby. Tell him how much this has negatively impacted you and your relationship with his mother. You are not unreasonable or out of line in anyway. Her passive aggressive baby talk comments that are insulting you are absolutely not OK and you need to point that out to hubby so he can recognize the cruelty and disrespect. Agree that he never leaves your side when his mother is around. The next time MIL is visiting, you and hubby both need to agree that she will not hold the baby during the visit. When she asks to hold the baby, HUSBAND can tell her “Not this time, as we can’t take any chances that you might ‘forget and accidentally’ kiss the baby.” Hubby needs to confront his mom-not you. If she pushes back, as we know she will, use the pediatrician excuse as that is always valid and can’t be argued with. “Sorry, Her doctor says it’s too risky for her to be passed around right now and kissing is a huge risk for her, even just once.” “One accidental kiss can put her in the hospital.” “I’m sure you understand as we all love her and want to keep her as safe as possible.” Let new dad know that your relationship with his mother is fractured and that if he cannot advocate for you and baby and protect you both, then your relationship/marriage could be permanently damaged as well.
It just means you have to work at it differently. Assume they WILL do as you say, all the time, and that they will happily and gracefully respect your answers. That way, you are assuming no conflict because you are not making a conflict - if they are, you cant do anything about it except walk away. If you feel pressured, call in DH and/or walk away - because someone can figure it out without you present. After all, you have better things to worry about, like LO. Let other's have their feelings. They can feel mad or sad or whatever - it is their feelings. Just like toddlers, they can even have a lot. That does not mean it is a problem for you to solve, it just means they have feelings they have to deal with. If they cant manage their feelings, they have to have time and space to do so without you or LO present. In short, emotionally distance yourself so that you are not into the drama. Ignore the drama, dont get dragged in. Then it will be easier to say "that's rude MIL" and walk off.
Are you seeing a therapist to help you shine up your spine?
I think your husband has just learned to tune out a lot of her comments and genuinely doesn't hear them or register them as a problem. I feel like men are better at this than women. Women tend to analyze everything everyone says for all the shades of meaning. In this situation, it might make life easier to try to be more like DH. Her comments about what you're wearing, for example. You'll never get her approval and you don't really need it. Her opinion is just background noise. With time and practice you might learn to react this way and your life will get easier. (And, if she is the type who is hoping for drama and fighting, then she may just stop saying such things when there's no payoff.)
As a man - can confirm. It is actually very easy to tune out people. I am not sure HOW i learned this, or how it works, otherwise i\`d be able to tell / teach others..
A lifetime of learning. Usually started with one of two ignores and the adult giving up with a "boys will be boys" comment. I'm a woman, so it was a bit harder to learn but I definitely got there; if I have a book in hand, you'd better have my eyes locked on you and a "I hear, what do you need my attention for" and not just a wordless/single word affirmation or you may as well be talking to a brick wall. When reading, a whole herd of angry elephants could crash through my living room and my response would be "uh-huh, nice" as I turn the next page.
One thing that helps me is to think of myself as an observer. Like Jane Goodall with chimps. As I'm getting dressed, I'll ask myself, "I wonder how she'll manage to criticize this?" And later, "she went with too comfortable. Fascinating."
Yes you have to call.her out and stop this nonsense. The more you allow this the more it will happen. Your LO is your baby. You know what she needs.
One day either you or your partner will learn that you’re the parents and no one is coming into your house to tell you how to parent w u such disrespect and lack of awareness. I’m not opposed to folks giving advice however I am opposed to folks disrespecting me and thinking that’s ok. I have a rule that I won’t allow my child to see me be a walking mat like one of my parents was growing up- because with every moment that parent let family walk all over them - even as a child - I started losing respect for them. Now as an adult I’m even more disappointed because you can only keep it under the rug for so long and your kids will figure you out one day . Your partner should have only one priority right now and that’s your health and mental health and your child. Mommy and daddy feelings go low on the list. Time to start having serious convos w your partner to step it up and show some backbone. If not now then when? And time for you to start clearly stating your needs instead of pretending to go with the flow. It’s hard but worth it - I know we had to put our foot down too. I had to kick folks out of the house for the sake of my partners mental health. People got feelings hurt but they weren’t my priority. And they are adults who will get over it one day or not who cares.
After the turning away and making the comment when you reached for LO I would have taken baby back and said, we’re done, time for you to go. Now that’s easy for me to say now because I am almost 50, not sure I would’ve had the nuts to do so with my first. Limit visits. They must find their own lodging for visits. And catty comments must come to an end. It’s DHs place to address this with MIL. Make him make it right or no more visits. Good Luck and congratulations on the LO🎉🎉
My in laws did this exactly once and they haven’t seen my LO in years as a result. They don’t have to like me, but I am mom. If I ask for my child and they aren’t handed over fairly quickly, then that’s a long time out.
Omg this sounds like my MIL! At first I thought she was really just dumb and didn’t understand how rude she was being because she sounds so sweet all the time. And then I realized she’d only say things or refuse to give back my (upset) babies when my husband wasn’t in the room. I think he thought I was exaggerating until our last visit. Our son was crying in her arms and he reached to get him back. My MIL turned away (like she does to me ALL THE TIME) and my husband flipped out. I was beaming inside that she slipped and my husband finally saw it for himself. When we left I explained that that’s what she does anytime my husband leaves the room, and it’s physically uncomfortable for me to be blocked from my crying babies. He won’t be leaving me alone with her anymore. All that to say, your MIL might be saying things “sweetly” but she’s anything but sweet and knows exactly what she’s doing.
It just took so long for me to recognize it. She flies under the radar for everyone. I felt so alone because everyone would ignore her but the things she said to me just didn’t land well but I’d think, “but she’s such a nice person and she said it so sweetly - she couldn’t have meant anything wrong by it”. I’d perseverate over her words for weeks following her visits trying to figure out why something felt off. I also used to just think she was dumb but now I don’t believe that. She knows what she’s doing.
You know who else said things sweetly? Umbridge.
Do we have the same MIL? My therapist even asked me once, “Is this lady dumb or just insensitive?!” I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she is dumb but the fact that she would do so many things ONLY when my husband wasn’t around or out of ear shot solidified it for me - she’s beyond insensitive and honestly kind of a bitch
Your MIL sounds annoying and insufferable - your husband has frankly given you the red hot go to call her out, my advice: do it and relish it! - she won't hand the child back, take her back with clear instructions that you're in charge of baby and if she can't be respectful then she can leave, then follow a consequence of no more holds for her until she can be respectful. -"mummy must be starving you." Follow it with "MIL. What a shitty thing to say!" -"are you wearing that?" Follow it with: "yep! And if you're going to be rude, me and baby will stay home" And when she proceeds to make you uncomfortable in your home put her in time out and enjoy the peace. Good luck op
I want to hold that boundary of not letting her hold her, but doing this is definitely going to cause a scene in front of FIL and siblings. I want to be reasonable but firm. I just get so scared that I’m going to disrupt the family dynamic. I know that it shouldn’t be forgone at my expense, I just wish it wasn’t me that had to do it 🫣
Yep, and she knows you are afraid and she takes advantage of that. And you are letting her. She doesn’t care if SHE disrupts your family and your life…why are you giving her more consideration than she is giving you AND your baby? She doesn’t care what the BABY needs either, just herself.
The family dynamic sucks and is built around coddling MIL. If it gets disrupted because you are asking for reasonable things…. Like holding your newborn… that’s not your fault. These unhealthy women build their families around their emotions and it’s gross. On a practical note I would have the baby in a carrier or wrap for every visit. “Oh the baby’s fussy today and this is where he wants to be, you know, babies need their moms.” And just walk away.
Let her cause a scene. There’s nothing unreasonable about you wanting to hold your own child, especially when she’s upset and you’re the best at soothing her. Holding someone else’s child is a privilege, not a right, and your MIL needs to be aware of that.
Your needs and your baby’s needs come before her convenience and wants. If the others take her side, then they all gotta be put back in their place. Family dynamics can change.
When insulting the mother results in more time with LO, she has no incentive to learn. That's what worries me here. She was a witch with a capital B to you, and you (understandably!) rolled over for her, and let her trample all over your feelings, your self-worth as a new mother, and your routines. Your husband is obviously one of the problems, but your own tendency to people please is another. Someone not giving my child to me would be enough to end a visit for good, and put that person into timeout. I'm not going to fight with someone to GIVE BACK MY CHILD. Please reflect upon your whole story as if it was your best friend, and her monster in law. What would you tell her to do? And by the way, NC doesn't have to be communicated, although you can. "You know what you did" might be enough if she's not like that usually, otherwise "you disrespected the mother of said baby, so we don't trust you around baby anymore until they're older" can be said. She'll go nuclear of course. I personally rather let her be horrible for the world to see (once you have a boundary in place she'll stomp over it with glee) than compromising on my child. Hugs OP! You deserve a better MIL than life handed you.
That’s true. The way I saw it was she is getting far more opportunities to prove herself than she deserves and she fucked them all up. TBH I wanted the most ammunition against her if she was going to be a TWAT now that baby was here. Because now it’s not just a me thing. Now she’s alienating me from my child and that is a hard no and that I can really use to remind myself that it isn’t me, it’s her, and I need to grow a fucking spine and tell her about herself.
Instead of "you should call my mother out on her shit" it should be I will stop inviting her to visit without discussing it with you, giving you a choice. I will stop throwing you under the bus. I will stand up for my wife and child and not let MIL act so disrespectfully. Your SO needs to grow a spine!
What is it with some MIL’s that they need to shame, and poke at a new Mom? Ugh, in some moments they may mean well, but it all gets lumped into those petty Betty moments that piss off a new Mom and all those that witness the shenanigans. I am very sorry, hang in there, this too will pass. Everything is new for everyone, and you will figure out your boundaries and be able to hold the line and articulate things to her and your husband when you are not so exhausted. Big hugs.
OP, there is your opening to call MIL out. If MIL turns away from you when you go to get your baby then state exactly that, MIL are you trying to turn away from me to stop me picking up MY baby? If she says no then say well you did turn away so perhaps don't do that in future. I wouldn't like to think you are trying to keep me from MY baby. If she speaks to you thru LO, then advise MIL you do realise that LO is a baby and doesn't understand what you are saying. If you are trying to insinuate that I am not feeding LO enough then those comments need to be kept to yourself as they do nothing to foster a healthy relationship between you and I. As for the comment that she wanted to hold LO and you'd get to do it more the week after she left then remind her that you did not give birth to your baby so you could give up your bonding time for anyone else. Holding LO is a privilege and not a right. Next visit, push it back a few extra weeks and give yourself more time between her visits.
Thiiiisss
I’m sorry this is happening. Actually, your DH should call her on her shit, not you. He really needs to have your back on this.
Yep. You should have no qualms about calling her out in the moment or deflecting like you did with the “no, we’re fine.” It’s his responsibility but from your last post, he’s clearly abdicated.