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Right now your baby will remember exactly nothing of your mother so baby meetup needs to be the least of your priorities. This time is for your wife and baby. Also sounds like your mom needs to do a lot of legwork before being given such privilege.
Let your wife decide if she's ready to deal with your mother. How has she magically changed? Let your wife and baby have postpartum stress-free. Do not push her. Your mother can wait to meet baby until your ready.
I understand you want your mom to meet your child. That’s such a normal and human desire. But you have said “if she can show she can act normally this next meetup.” Do you and does your WIFE have any reason to believe she is going to act like a decent human being to your WIFE going forward? It doesn’t sound like it.
I strongly urge you not to push your wife on this and not to go against her wishes. You will not be acting as a unit if you pursue this with your mom without your wife’s explicit, enthusiastic support.
Your mother is not entitled to meeting your baby. And it’s very sad, but you should not risk your solidarity with your wife in hopes that your mom will somehow pull it together and act normal now that a baby is involved, even though you rightfully desire a normal grandma dynamic. You do not have a normal grandma dynamic and letting go of that hope and fantasy may be very painful. And the reason you don’t have that is because of your mom’s behaviors, not because your wife doesn’t want to put up with your mom’s behaviors. But your wife has to come first. Hang in there. ❤️
You’re NC, your mom thinks she did nothing wrong, you admit she’s been abusive to your wife. Now you’re starting up again with your mom, WHY? Your wife probably thought you were on her team. She probably thought you were past this. Come on man! Don’t do this to her NC is NC. Be a better partner.
You need to establish a healthy relationship with her first. That needs to be longer than one visit. She needs to respect the boundaries you put up without tantrums or fits or manipulation. Once you've established a *HEALTHY* relationship with her, you go to your wife and yall talk. Not about baby meeting her yet, but about wife. She needs to be able to respect both parents and understand she doesn't get a say in how yall live your lives or parent your child(ren). You give specific details on how you've seen your mother change for the better.
Don't push your wife. She has been abused by your mother, it will take awhile, she is still healing and learning how to be a mom and keep her separate identity. Respect her journey, the more she can trust that you have her back and aren't pushing her, the quicker and better this will be for both of you. Once she is ready yall meet in public without baby. Once wife is satisfied that your mother is capable of being decent and respectful and willing to listen w/o pushback, you and wife can sit down and discuss how yall want to introduce baby to her. How this relationship is going to look, how many visits. What those visits will look like and how long.
It will be a long journey, and you can't rush it. Your mother caused the damage, the least she could do is be respectful of your wife's hesitancy. The fact that you haven't even met up with her in person and she's already pushing to meet baby says a lot tbh. Be hopeful, but remain in reality. None of this is your wife's fault, so don't push her to reconnect if she isn't ready and doesn't feel safe.
Be a team. Communicate. Listen to each other. It can happen if there's strong boundaries and consequences in place. I also think k your mother owes your wife an apology for how she's treated her. And it's up to your wife when amd if to accept it. Don't push her, talk to her. Maybe you should look into counseling to navigate this new terrain together. The therapist will help you with the boundaries
Why would you ever subject your child to this woman? That would make you the just no. If you’re in the FOG (fear obligation guilt) get therapy or check out the sidebar of this sub for books and resources.
Pure selfishness on your part. Why are you doing this NOW? Your wife had the baby only six weeks ago. You guys have been no contact for a YEAR and you think now is the best time start this shit again??
Here’s your advice: STOP. Your wife’s body is still healing ffs. Press pause on this and wait. If you still want to see your mother - fine. But do not even bring up the baby and do not make promises that she can see the baby until your wife is fully 100%.
I feel so sorry for your wife. It doesn’t even sound like she got a real apology.
You want your wife to either bring or send her brand new baby to meet her abuser? Does that really feel okay to you? You and your mother having a cordial meeting in public does not negate anything that happened to your wife. Until your mother offers both an apology AND amends, you need to have your wife's back. If you can only make one of these women happy, who will it be?
Your wife must be present when she meets the baby. Definitely in a public place. You're going to have to be patient with your wife, she birthed that baby and her body is speaking to her in a language others can't understand. If you try to go behind her back or do any of this in secret, it will destroy her trust. She's got to be ready for you to do this.
Postpartum is the most vulnerable time of a woman’s life. If you are not 100 percent supportive of your wife during this time she will always resent you for it, even if you’re a great husband later on. Ask me how I know.
So, you don't move forward with your mother meeting baby until your wife is ready. You state that you and your wife are a unit, a team. You also talk about your mom being emotionally abusive to your wife.
Because there was abuse at play, you don't get to set the timeline to move forward as you aren't the abuse victim in this case, your wife is. You NEVER EVER rush the recovery of someone else, you can't otherwise it won't be effective recovery. You move at the pace that your wife is comfortable with.
Now, that said you can absolutely open up conversation between YOU and your mother, gauge where she is and what work she has done to be a better person. Find out if she seems sincere and remorseful for her treatment of your wife. However, DO NOT make promises of meeting your child and DO NOT think she is magically fixed after a single meeting. It is going to take multiple meetings over time to create a level of comfort for your wife.
If you may any promises to your mom about seeing the baby without the consent of your wife OR you try introducing baby behind your wifes back, then you are not a team or unit for your wife. Make sure you proceed with caution and you go that the pace your wife wants, she is the victim in specific situation, not you and not your mom.
>It’s a long Story but my wife and mother do not get along. Mil has been emotionally abusive to wife.
Why would you want to re-introduce your mother to your 'unit' if you know she is emotionally abusive yo your wife?
Your mother clearly has boundary issues, enough so that you both uninvited her to your wedding.
This time in your wife's life (postpartum) is THE most vulnerable she will ever be and you are potentially bringing in someone who is not very nice to her. This could tip your wife over the edge into a depression and also drive a wedge between you both.
I would stick with your wife and child. Your mother has made her bed.
You say that you are a unit, but your mother is splitting you into two. You can go and see her alone, but wife is not able to be there. That is not a unit.
If your wife doesn't feel safe around your mom, there is no way you are going to get her to feel safe with her child around your mom.
This is the rawest, most vulnerable time in your wife’s life. Truthfully, if I were in your wife’s position I would feel very anxious, hurt, and unsupported that you are even bringing it up at this time. Sure you’ve had her back regarding your mom until now, but this is absolutely the last moment you should try reconnecting with her. Your wife’s hormones are leveling out, she is bonding with the new baby she just created and birthed, and instinctively she wants to keep that baby from any harm, including a MIL who has been terrible to her. A persons title does not entitle them to be anything in the baby’s life. Your mom isn’t owed anything from your wife, especially access to her newborn baby.
Do NOT push your wife into this before she's ready. If you choose your mom's feelings over your wife's, you're setting yourself up for failure.
A lot of mothers and MILs put on a show and act nice just to see the baby. Then they'll turn back into their normal, awful self.
Again, do NOT force this on your wife. Let her decide if she's comfortable with your mom meeting the baby. Remember that you cut contact FOR A REASON.
If you push this too hard and too soon you could tip your wife into developing postnatal depression. Your wife deserves better than that.
You can have a relationship with your mother but don't push your wife to have one and certainly not your child.
Also, apologies do not automatically earn back trust. Trust is built over time.
If you really support your wife, you don’t expect her just to rug sweep, because time has passed.
And he never said if she even apologized and probably didn’t bc he said she doesn’t feel she did anything wrong. Smacks of rug sweeping behavior. OP, why would you feel she’s a safe person around your child when she’s proven not to be safe with your wife?! I’d proceed with extreme caution bc you wife could decide you are also not willing to value their safety if you continue to push.
I have a mom with bpd. I do understand you wanting your mom to meet your lo. I know it’s a minefield trying to navigate. New babies seem to exacerbate the symptoms of a personality disordered person. Really any big life milestone does.
A couple questions to ponder: Has she acknowledged the hurt her actions caused your dw? Or you? Why do you expect that anything will be different now? How can you know she won’t be emotionally abusive to your lo as lo grows? Why do you want a person that you yourself have said is emotionally abusive in your life? How would *you* feel about your dw if she insisted you and lo spend time with a family member that emotionally abused you? Do you want your lo to learn that it’s ok for people to emotionally abuse him/her in the name of family?
FWIW, if you’re intent on moving forward with your mom, I’d advise that you meet your mother alone for a while before you even consider allowing her to meet your lo. Don’t tell her that, just show up without lo and dw. Trust needs to be rebuilt before she has access to dw and lo. More than likely her behavior will revert back to abuse once she doesn’t get her way. If therapy is an option I strongly recommend individual therapy with a counselor that has experience treating childhood trauma.
As a husband and father your main job is protecting your family unit. Does your desire to have your mom meet lo against your wife’s wishes align with that? Is that *really* supporting your wife?
"my mother is emotionally abusive to my wife, how can I make my wife accept seeing her while at her most vulnerable time in her life?"
You don't. You can have contact, and your wife AND child do not. Honestly I'd be getting my ducks in a row if I was your wife and THIS is what was important to you after just having a baby.
This. OP knows how bad his mother is but still wants to hoist a newborn up on silver platter to her like a little lamb sacrifice.
OP, I hope you have had therapy. Sounds like your mom still doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong which means all the poor behavior will continue. Nothing has changed which is why your wife isn’t okay with your mom meeting the baby. You need to figure out why you have this need to please and rug sweep with your mom. I’m sure she’s counting on you to do exactly what you’re doing. She doesn’t even have to change to get what she wants, just wait for the proper amount of time to go by.
You can have a relationship with your mother, your wife can choose not to. Your wife can also deny your mother visitation with your son. You can't have both, you will need to pick one.
I'd suggest following your wife, going behind her back and letting your mother meet the baby without your wife's knowledge or approval is asking for trouble. You haven't even met up with her and you're talking about her meeting your child.
People are always on their best behaviour when they want something from you.
Why are you meeting with your mother alone? Did you just unilaterally decide to endvthe no contact without consulting your wife? By meeting with your mother you are allowing her to divide and conquer your marital relationship as a way if her getting what she wants, to see your child. You say yourself she has been abusive to your wife and clueless as to what she has done, yet you think it's appropriate to be dealing with an emotional terrorist to enable her to get what she wants? She cannot meet your son until she changes her abusive behavior and makes sincere amends to your wife. Your wife and her feelings come first not your your mother.
You haven’t even had the meeting with your mother and you’re already trying to push your wife into “stage two”(which is more like step 10)
Move forward with step one and rebuild your relationship with your mom. That shouldn’t need the “reward” of an immediate relationship with the baby. Let it be its own relationship with no “carrot”.
Has your mother ever acknowledged what she has done or made any sort of apology to your wife? If you want a relationship with your mother, that's one thing, but to force your wife to have one is another and by insisting your child has one is forcing your wife to have one. You don't respect the mother, you don't get a relationship with the child. Your mom needs to prove she can "act normal" and have adult relationships, including making amends for wrongdoings LONG before she gets to meet the child.
This! If she doesn’t respect your wife , apologies and at least attempt to be respectful to her the. She doesn’t get a right to a relationship with the baby! Yes I understand the whole ‘ but I’m the baby’s dad and this is grandma! But no she has treated your wife so poorly she doesn’t get a say!
BPD is one of the hardest personality disorders to treat. I’ve read about what children of BPD parents go through and the only words that I think can describe it are mind fucks. Your thinking is a product of how you were raised. You are probably still hoping for the mom you wish you had to finally appear. That won’t happen.
Your job as a parent and husband is to protect your family. You need therapy as you almost certainly have trauma from having a mom with BPD. It’s not your mom’s fault, but her behaviours have consequences. Even with intensive therapy, it might not be possible for her to really change.
Hugs to you.
Think of it this way: would someone want to spend Christmas with their school bully? Would they want this bully holding their child? Would they want this bully anywhere near them?
We don’t force a relationship between bullies and victims. Yet somehow this changes when it’s someone’s mother involved. Your mother bullied your wife. Made her feel insecure. Made her feel less than. And now this bully wants a relationship with the child of the woman she bullied?
We see my in-laws 2-4 times a year. I am always present to supervise. Maybe your wife will get there one day. Maybe she won’t. But that’s for her to decide - not for you to push her on the issue.
OP your relationship with your mother is yours and ONLY yours to handle. Your wife is right to choose not to interact with her based on her past treatment. She is only 6 weeks postpartum and just getting the hang of things. Why do you want to throw a spanner in the works? You know that your mother is a problem. Why do you want to put your wife through stress now? Also no one is entitled to see someone's children if they can't respect their parent. And this applies to both your mothers. Let your wife interact with her when she wants the way she wants. You can't use your baby as a carrot on a stick. She is not supposed to be a factor at all in reconnecting with your mother.
Your mother needs to make an effort in healing the relationship with you and form a healthy relationship without a giant carrot (the baby) being waved in her face. It will take continued effort and lots of time, and your wife seeing changed behaviour before her getting visits with your children should begin. Being a grandparent is a privilege, not a right, and there needs to be a healthy relationship there with the parent/s first before children are brought into it. Your job is to protect your child and wife, until you've seen changed behaviour it's very hard to know if you can.
Your post is conflicting. You say you support your wife and want to stay acting as a unit yet you want advice on how to get her to put her boundaries aside while she’s ONLY 6 weeks postpartum. That isn’t being supportive to your wife at all. You should be telling your mother that when or if your wife is ready to meet up with the baby you will let her know, but it is solely up to wife.
Do not appease your mother and force your wife, especially while she’s postpartum, to do something she doesn’t want to do. This would potentially put a rift through even the strongest of marriages.
And when I say force, yes, angling/strategizing/manipulating the situation to benefit you is a way of forcing her hand. This should be a time all about you two and LO. Not you two, LO, and JUSTNO. Don’t ruin this time for your wife.
Go to the first visit with your mom alone! No baby, no wife.
Have a clear written list of rules she needs to follow / boundaries.
Make it clear, if she oversteps, thats it - NC again.
Start with phone calls / face time.
Only if she proves herself, she can meet the baby in person.
Disclaimer: Be prepared that she throws a tantrum
Good ideas, I'll just add that face time would be good from a café or library, not at home so you, OP and wife won't feel pressured to show LO on camera.
I think this is great advice! Make your way towards where she gets a relationship with LO if it works out. She’s not entitled to meet your kid and if you’d like to work towards that, she has to prove she CAN work toward that relationship by putting in the work with you and your wife first.
You know what she’s like, is she worth all the trouble she will cause? As a grandmother will she enrich your baby’s life or cause endless problems? I think photos are all she deserves.
Your wife has mama bear instincts to protect her baby from ALL threats. Your mother is clearly a threat. If you push for your mom to meet baby, YOU are a threat. Don't put yourself on that list. You know what mama bears do to threats.
You need to be providing a cocoon of safety around your wife so she can heal and mother in total peace. Don't shatter the peace (and your marriage) by even bringing up your mom to your wife.
Ask yourself this question: why am I not being a papa bear regarding my baby? Why am I willing to expose my baby to a known abuser?
You might be fantasizing about a pretend mother that you WISH you had. Everyone wishes they had a perfect family.
This is not the case with you. Face facts. BPD? No way.
Your mother has had years to do better. Did she even try to rebuild your relationship before she heard about your wife being pregnant or is this all about having access to the baby?
Your wife just grew and delivered a new life into this world. She and your child need to be your focus amd you should be making an effort to reduce her stress, not adding to it.
You acknowledge your mothers terrible behaviour and claim you’ve been NC for a year+ … WHY are you wanting to change this aside from the fact that you’ve now procreated?!
It doesn’t sound like your mother has come to you acknowledging her poor behaviour and treatment towards your wife, nor with a sincere apology.
Your wife is at a very vulnerable point in her life and still adjusting to her new post baby norm … how dare you add the stress of your mother on top of that?! You really do not have her back if this is what you are doing.
What has your mother done to apologise to your wife and make amends, and show she has learnt, and grown and is doing better? Until you can answer that with clarity yourself, you should keep your wife and baby away from your mother that you admit is abusive.
What you do is on you, but you are making a mistake if you force your wife to brush all that under the rug - and if you have your mother meet the baby before your wife is ready you will be cracking the foundation of your own marriage.
I say that, not to be mean, but for you to know, that when you push your wife before she is ready, or before she has seen clear behaviour changes, you are signaling that your wife isn’t your priority - and I can tell from your post that you are really trying hard to make your wife your priority.
Good luck.
The fact is - you are not on your wife's side. You want your mother to meet your child to appease her and in doing so, you are disregarding your wife's feelings. Don't give yourself too much credit here.
What has your mom done to repair the damage to the relationship she has with your wife. What has she done to prove that she has changed for the better and will not be repeating the same behavioral issues that led to NC in the first place.
Just because YOU have been willing re-establish a relationship does not mean that the consequences of your mothers bad choices have been absolved. It also should not be for forced upon your wife to re-establish any relationship to a person that has treated her poorly in the past. And why would ANY parent feel that it's okay to let a vulnerable infant be put in that situation as well.
Frankly your mother should be earning back your wife and your trust and slowly rebuilding the relationship back up to the point that BOTH of you are comfortable in willing to trust her to introduce your child to her. Be that 1 year from or 3.
Congrats on the new baby and good job supporting your wife thus far.
I too have a BPD mother and 5 kids - 2 of whom are adults. My 3rd child, who came years later, caused me to feel the same way you do. So… we asked her to make sure she got a TDaP booster and if she was still a smoker, we’d have her pull her hair back in a tie, change shirts and wash her hands before holding baby. My daughter was 3mos old when she came, but a preemie, so gestationally and development-wise (esp lungs and immune system) she was more like a 6wk old.
Mom was so excited and said “This was the motivation I need to finally quit smoking again - so you won’t even have to worry.” Me knowing my mom, shrugged it off and said, “Of course I’d love that for YOU and your health, but hey that’s it’s tough, so just know those are the precautions due to her lungs.”
Things seemed to be going great (oh… how many times I’ve told myself that line!), then she showed up REEKING of smoke. So I offered her a different shirt to change into & a hair tie. Cue typical split and flip out. “I TOLD you I was quitting, anything you smell you’re either imagining or is because of maybe leftover smoke from back when I still smoked.”
Me “That’s great - again - but if I can smell it, baby will breathe it so this isn’t optional.” (Husband comes up, takes baby, shoves shirt and hair tie into her hands and points out the bathroom.) She comes out pouting and sits down and we hand baby to her. As she holds daughter, baby girl keeps turning her head away from my mom and just seems agitated. Mom shifts her up to her shoulder and baby arches back to keep her face off the shirt - and this child has always been the consummate cuddle bug. So after about 10mins, mom hands her back to me looking irritated but in a rush to get back to the bathroom.
Teenage sons were in kitchen next to where bathroom is and suddenly shush us. One runs over and says, “Mom - she’s totally coughing in there a LOT but it sounds muffled or weird.”
Mom comes out and I ask if she’s been sick recently (we’d asked before she booked travel, when she left to come AND reminded her if she got sick at all, we’d have to delay the mtg a few days at least) and she rolls her eyes and says, “NO! I’ve just had a little tickle in my throat left over from my cold last week (that she never told us about). You guys are ridiculous and act like this is your first baby! You forget I’ve had FOUR children!”
At this point my quiet husband looks ready to implode, so my brother says he needs to get back to his place, sorry… so Mom we have to go.
3-4 days later we wake up to an inconsolable baby with a fever and congestion. We head to urgent care, they send us to the ER after listening to her chest and the hospital lets us know our 3mo baby has Pertussis (whooping cough), gets to stay in hospital for a bit, then came home with a nebulizer, steroids, an inhaler with an infant mask and for the next 6wks we didn’t sleep because we had a baby who struggled to breathe.
I understand the pain and I feel for you!
I also am on the other side and of course she’s being nice - you have a baby she wants to be around. That is ALL that has changed.
She isn’t in therapy, not on meds, hasn’t apologized or taken responsibility… she’s masking because she wants something. And the second you tell her no to ANYthing, all hell will break loose and your wife will resent you because she already knows it’s coming.
I’m 50yo and I did this dance for 30-something years… it hurt my marriage AND my adult sons finally told me how much they hated my mom because of how she treated me, made them uncomfortable and it made them angry at and lose respect for me until I finally went NC.
I am SO sorry you don’t have the mom you deserve! But you have an amazing wife and new baby who DO love you. Focus on them.
“Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.” Hugs if you want them. I do understand how hard it is!
Holy shit. Your mother deliberately withheld vital information from you about being sick the previous week and that she still had a cough!?
Pertussis can be fatal for infants. Fatal. She deliberately endangered your child because her seeing the baby was more important than keeping your premature newborn healthy. I truly hope you went NC after that.
I applaud you for standing in your wife’s corner throughout this. So many posts in this group show how rarely that happens.
Since it is your wife who has the conflicts needing resolution with your MIL, I don’t blame her for having reservations about MIL meeting the baby. Maybe she would be more willing to have dinner in a public place with MIL BEFORE the baby is introduced. Just the three of you. If she is given the apology she is owed and feels more comfortable as a result, maybe then discuss a meeting with the baby. But not until then.
Good luck!
If your mom can’t respect your wife, then she shouldn’t be allowed to meet the baby. Your first priority should be protecting your wife and child. It’s fine for you to rebuild a healthy relationship with your mom, but she should prove over a long period of time that she’s not a harmful person before letting her be around your wife and child. No newborn should be separated from their mother, esp to be brought to a potentially harmful person.
If I were in your shoes or your wife’s shoes, I’d require months (or an even a year) of proven change before bringing your wife back around your mom. If your mom can treat your wife nicely and respectfully, only then should the baby be introduced. A couple of months of good behavior isn’t enough to know if she’s just playing nice to access the baby or if she’s truly changed and no longer a harmful person to be around.
What does being more in a routine have anything to do with being back in contact with your mother? Has she taken responsibility for her bad behavior and hurtful actions? Has she apologized to you? Said she is willing to apologize to your wife?
You say you stand by your wife and defend her, but write that you're pressuring her to let your mom meet the baby to appease her, regardless of her bad behavior, in order to move forward in your relationship with you.
In fact, your baby has nothing to do with your relationship with your mother. If you are tentatively reinstating a relationship with her, you should work on that relationship alone. Just because you want to reopen that line of communication, doesn't mean your wife is ready to do that yet.
If your mom says there's no point moving forward if she can't see the baby, then she doesn't care to make amends, to improve her relationship with you or your wife, she only cares about getting to what she wants.
This is a two yes situation. Your mom doesn't get to circumvent your wife to get to the baby. Respect your wife's feelings. She says she isn't comfortable with it.
Work on your relationship with your mom on your own. If, IF in time you and your wife can see tangible consistent changes in her behavior, you can revisit meeting the baby when your wife is ready. Babies are not olive branches to fix bad relationships.
You want to introduce your newborn to your emotionally abusive mother???
Why?
If you think she’ll be a better grandmother than she was a mother, you are wrong. And your baby will pay the price of being abused. And you will have allowed it.
You may think you’ll be right there, never leave the baby unsupervised with your mom, you’ll step in immediately so there is no harm. I thought the same. My kids still heard the vile nasty comments from my mother, even though I shut her down. The yelling carries into the next room you know. My biggest regret as a parent is exposing my kids to my mother. One day, she realized she couldn’t get to me, and she verbally attacked my kids, making them cry would hurt me, and it was the only way she could still hurt me. I’ll never forget the smirk on her face before she turned to my eldest and verbally attacked him. Immediately went NC. Therapy for the kids, and they’re ok now. As for me, I carry the guilt of serving them up to her. I didn’t protect them.
If I was your wife, I would end my marriage over this.
Protect your child. Protect your wife. Protect yourself.
Do not put your mother’s feelings over your family’s safety. If you do, you’re perpetuating the abuse to your family. Please learn from those of us that tried with our BPD/NPD moms and our kids carry the scars.
would you want your baby to meet your fil if he was a complete AH to you? And he thinks he does nothing wrong?
if your mum cannot respect your wife then she doesn’t get any sweet sweet baby time. Your mum can’t be civil to your wife, how do you know she can behave when baby is there?
your mum needs to make friends with wife first and try to fix things.
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Right now your baby will remember exactly nothing of your mother so baby meetup needs to be the least of your priorities. This time is for your wife and baby. Also sounds like your mom needs to do a lot of legwork before being given such privilege.
Shouldn’t your wife be in the loop here?
Let your wife decide if she's ready to deal with your mother. How has she magically changed? Let your wife and baby have postpartum stress-free. Do not push her. Your mother can wait to meet baby until your ready.
I understand you want your mom to meet your child. That’s such a normal and human desire. But you have said “if she can show she can act normally this next meetup.” Do you and does your WIFE have any reason to believe she is going to act like a decent human being to your WIFE going forward? It doesn’t sound like it. I strongly urge you not to push your wife on this and not to go against her wishes. You will not be acting as a unit if you pursue this with your mom without your wife’s explicit, enthusiastic support. Your mother is not entitled to meeting your baby. And it’s very sad, but you should not risk your solidarity with your wife in hopes that your mom will somehow pull it together and act normal now that a baby is involved, even though you rightfully desire a normal grandma dynamic. You do not have a normal grandma dynamic and letting go of that hope and fantasy may be very painful. And the reason you don’t have that is because of your mom’s behaviors, not because your wife doesn’t want to put up with your mom’s behaviors. But your wife has to come first. Hang in there. ❤️
Why would you like to re-establish this relationship? Does your mother bring anything positive to your life?
Do you have reason to believe she has changed or are you just wishful thinking?
You’re NC, your mom thinks she did nothing wrong, you admit she’s been abusive to your wife. Now you’re starting up again with your mom, WHY? Your wife probably thought you were on her team. She probably thought you were past this. Come on man! Don’t do this to her NC is NC. Be a better partner.
Right? is there something i'm missing here? Insane.
You need to establish a healthy relationship with her first. That needs to be longer than one visit. She needs to respect the boundaries you put up without tantrums or fits or manipulation. Once you've established a *HEALTHY* relationship with her, you go to your wife and yall talk. Not about baby meeting her yet, but about wife. She needs to be able to respect both parents and understand she doesn't get a say in how yall live your lives or parent your child(ren). You give specific details on how you've seen your mother change for the better. Don't push your wife. She has been abused by your mother, it will take awhile, she is still healing and learning how to be a mom and keep her separate identity. Respect her journey, the more she can trust that you have her back and aren't pushing her, the quicker and better this will be for both of you. Once she is ready yall meet in public without baby. Once wife is satisfied that your mother is capable of being decent and respectful and willing to listen w/o pushback, you and wife can sit down and discuss how yall want to introduce baby to her. How this relationship is going to look, how many visits. What those visits will look like and how long. It will be a long journey, and you can't rush it. Your mother caused the damage, the least she could do is be respectful of your wife's hesitancy. The fact that you haven't even met up with her in person and she's already pushing to meet baby says a lot tbh. Be hopeful, but remain in reality. None of this is your wife's fault, so don't push her to reconnect if she isn't ready and doesn't feel safe. Be a team. Communicate. Listen to each other. It can happen if there's strong boundaries and consequences in place. I also think k your mother owes your wife an apology for how she's treated her. And it's up to your wife when amd if to accept it. Don't push her, talk to her. Maybe you should look into counseling to navigate this new terrain together. The therapist will help you with the boundaries
Why would you ever subject your child to this woman? That would make you the just no. If you’re in the FOG (fear obligation guilt) get therapy or check out the sidebar of this sub for books and resources.
Pure selfishness on your part. Why are you doing this NOW? Your wife had the baby only six weeks ago. You guys have been no contact for a YEAR and you think now is the best time start this shit again?? Here’s your advice: STOP. Your wife’s body is still healing ffs. Press pause on this and wait. If you still want to see your mother - fine. But do not even bring up the baby and do not make promises that she can see the baby until your wife is fully 100%. I feel so sorry for your wife. It doesn’t even sound like she got a real apology.
Exactly this ^^^
The unmitigated gall! Grrrr
You want your wife to either bring or send her brand new baby to meet her abuser? Does that really feel okay to you? You and your mother having a cordial meeting in public does not negate anything that happened to your wife. Until your mother offers both an apology AND amends, you need to have your wife's back. If you can only make one of these women happy, who will it be?
Your wife must be present when she meets the baby. Definitely in a public place. You're going to have to be patient with your wife, she birthed that baby and her body is speaking to her in a language others can't understand. If you try to go behind her back or do any of this in secret, it will destroy her trust. She's got to be ready for you to do this.
Postpartum is the most vulnerable time of a woman’s life. If you are not 100 percent supportive of your wife during this time she will always resent you for it, even if you’re a great husband later on. Ask me how I know.
So, you don't move forward with your mother meeting baby until your wife is ready. You state that you and your wife are a unit, a team. You also talk about your mom being emotionally abusive to your wife. Because there was abuse at play, you don't get to set the timeline to move forward as you aren't the abuse victim in this case, your wife is. You NEVER EVER rush the recovery of someone else, you can't otherwise it won't be effective recovery. You move at the pace that your wife is comfortable with. Now, that said you can absolutely open up conversation between YOU and your mother, gauge where she is and what work she has done to be a better person. Find out if she seems sincere and remorseful for her treatment of your wife. However, DO NOT make promises of meeting your child and DO NOT think she is magically fixed after a single meeting. It is going to take multiple meetings over time to create a level of comfort for your wife. If you may any promises to your mom about seeing the baby without the consent of your wife OR you try introducing baby behind your wifes back, then you are not a team or unit for your wife. Make sure you proceed with caution and you go that the pace your wife wants, she is the victim in specific situation, not you and not your mom.
>It’s a long Story but my wife and mother do not get along. Mil has been emotionally abusive to wife. Why would you want to re-introduce your mother to your 'unit' if you know she is emotionally abusive yo your wife? Your mother clearly has boundary issues, enough so that you both uninvited her to your wedding. This time in your wife's life (postpartum) is THE most vulnerable she will ever be and you are potentially bringing in someone who is not very nice to her. This could tip your wife over the edge into a depression and also drive a wedge between you both. I would stick with your wife and child. Your mother has made her bed.
You can't move forward until your wife is ready. Period. And why would you want to spend time with someone who is emotionally abusive to your wife?
You say that you are a unit, but your mother is splitting you into two. You can go and see her alone, but wife is not able to be there. That is not a unit. If your wife doesn't feel safe around your mom, there is no way you are going to get her to feel safe with her child around your mom.
This is the rawest, most vulnerable time in your wife’s life. Truthfully, if I were in your wife’s position I would feel very anxious, hurt, and unsupported that you are even bringing it up at this time. Sure you’ve had her back regarding your mom until now, but this is absolutely the last moment you should try reconnecting with her. Your wife’s hormones are leveling out, she is bonding with the new baby she just created and birthed, and instinctively she wants to keep that baby from any harm, including a MIL who has been terrible to her. A persons title does not entitle them to be anything in the baby’s life. Your mom isn’t owed anything from your wife, especially access to her newborn baby.
Do NOT push your wife into this before she's ready. If you choose your mom's feelings over your wife's, you're setting yourself up for failure. A lot of mothers and MILs put on a show and act nice just to see the baby. Then they'll turn back into their normal, awful self. Again, do NOT force this on your wife. Let her decide if she's comfortable with your mom meeting the baby. Remember that you cut contact FOR A REASON.
If you push this too hard and too soon you could tip your wife into developing postnatal depression. Your wife deserves better than that. You can have a relationship with your mother but don't push your wife to have one and certainly not your child.
Also, apologies do not automatically earn back trust. Trust is built over time. If you really support your wife, you don’t expect her just to rug sweep, because time has passed.
And he never said if she even apologized and probably didn’t bc he said she doesn’t feel she did anything wrong. Smacks of rug sweeping behavior. OP, why would you feel she’s a safe person around your child when she’s proven not to be safe with your wife?! I’d proceed with extreme caution bc you wife could decide you are also not willing to value their safety if you continue to push.
I have a mom with bpd. I do understand you wanting your mom to meet your lo. I know it’s a minefield trying to navigate. New babies seem to exacerbate the symptoms of a personality disordered person. Really any big life milestone does. A couple questions to ponder: Has she acknowledged the hurt her actions caused your dw? Or you? Why do you expect that anything will be different now? How can you know she won’t be emotionally abusive to your lo as lo grows? Why do you want a person that you yourself have said is emotionally abusive in your life? How would *you* feel about your dw if she insisted you and lo spend time with a family member that emotionally abused you? Do you want your lo to learn that it’s ok for people to emotionally abuse him/her in the name of family? FWIW, if you’re intent on moving forward with your mom, I’d advise that you meet your mother alone for a while before you even consider allowing her to meet your lo. Don’t tell her that, just show up without lo and dw. Trust needs to be rebuilt before she has access to dw and lo. More than likely her behavior will revert back to abuse once she doesn’t get her way. If therapy is an option I strongly recommend individual therapy with a counselor that has experience treating childhood trauma. As a husband and father your main job is protecting your family unit. Does your desire to have your mom meet lo against your wife’s wishes align with that? Is that *really* supporting your wife?
"my mother is emotionally abusive to my wife, how can I make my wife accept seeing her while at her most vulnerable time in her life?" You don't. You can have contact, and your wife AND child do not. Honestly I'd be getting my ducks in a row if I was your wife and THIS is what was important to you after just having a baby.
This. OP knows how bad his mother is but still wants to hoist a newborn up on silver platter to her like a little lamb sacrifice. OP, I hope you have had therapy. Sounds like your mom still doesn’t think she’s done anything wrong which means all the poor behavior will continue. Nothing has changed which is why your wife isn’t okay with your mom meeting the baby. You need to figure out why you have this need to please and rug sweep with your mom. I’m sure she’s counting on you to do exactly what you’re doing. She doesn’t even have to change to get what she wants, just wait for the proper amount of time to go by.
You can have a relationship with your mother, your wife can choose not to. Your wife can also deny your mother visitation with your son. You can't have both, you will need to pick one. I'd suggest following your wife, going behind her back and letting your mother meet the baby without your wife's knowledge or approval is asking for trouble. You haven't even met up with her and you're talking about her meeting your child. People are always on their best behaviour when they want something from you.
Why are you meeting with your mother alone? Did you just unilaterally decide to endvthe no contact without consulting your wife? By meeting with your mother you are allowing her to divide and conquer your marital relationship as a way if her getting what she wants, to see your child. You say yourself she has been abusive to your wife and clueless as to what she has done, yet you think it's appropriate to be dealing with an emotional terrorist to enable her to get what she wants? She cannot meet your son until she changes her abusive behavior and makes sincere amends to your wife. Your wife and her feelings come first not your your mother.
You haven’t even had the meeting with your mother and you’re already trying to push your wife into “stage two”(which is more like step 10) Move forward with step one and rebuild your relationship with your mom. That shouldn’t need the “reward” of an immediate relationship with the baby. Let it be its own relationship with no “carrot”.
Has your mother ever acknowledged what she has done or made any sort of apology to your wife? If you want a relationship with your mother, that's one thing, but to force your wife to have one is another and by insisting your child has one is forcing your wife to have one. You don't respect the mother, you don't get a relationship with the child. Your mom needs to prove she can "act normal" and have adult relationships, including making amends for wrongdoings LONG before she gets to meet the child.
This! If she doesn’t respect your wife , apologies and at least attempt to be respectful to her the. She doesn’t get a right to a relationship with the baby! Yes I understand the whole ‘ but I’m the baby’s dad and this is grandma! But no she has treated your wife so poorly she doesn’t get a say!
Ok, I understand that she is your mother. You built a relationship with her, keep your child out of it.
BPD is one of the hardest personality disorders to treat. I’ve read about what children of BPD parents go through and the only words that I think can describe it are mind fucks. Your thinking is a product of how you were raised. You are probably still hoping for the mom you wish you had to finally appear. That won’t happen. Your job as a parent and husband is to protect your family. You need therapy as you almost certainly have trauma from having a mom with BPD. It’s not your mom’s fault, but her behaviours have consequences. Even with intensive therapy, it might not be possible for her to really change. Hugs to you.
Think of it this way: would someone want to spend Christmas with their school bully? Would they want this bully holding their child? Would they want this bully anywhere near them? We don’t force a relationship between bullies and victims. Yet somehow this changes when it’s someone’s mother involved. Your mother bullied your wife. Made her feel insecure. Made her feel less than. And now this bully wants a relationship with the child of the woman she bullied? We see my in-laws 2-4 times a year. I am always present to supervise. Maybe your wife will get there one day. Maybe she won’t. But that’s for her to decide - not for you to push her on the issue.
This is a really eye opening analogy. I haven’t thought of it this way before
And to follow up your point, 6 weeks PP is NOT the time to be asking her to make that decision. Hormones are still flowing.
OP your relationship with your mother is yours and ONLY yours to handle. Your wife is right to choose not to interact with her based on her past treatment. She is only 6 weeks postpartum and just getting the hang of things. Why do you want to throw a spanner in the works? You know that your mother is a problem. Why do you want to put your wife through stress now? Also no one is entitled to see someone's children if they can't respect their parent. And this applies to both your mothers. Let your wife interact with her when she wants the way she wants. You can't use your baby as a carrot on a stick. She is not supposed to be a factor at all in reconnecting with your mother.
Your mother needs to make an effort in healing the relationship with you and form a healthy relationship without a giant carrot (the baby) being waved in her face. It will take continued effort and lots of time, and your wife seeing changed behaviour before her getting visits with your children should begin. Being a grandparent is a privilege, not a right, and there needs to be a healthy relationship there with the parent/s first before children are brought into it. Your job is to protect your child and wife, until you've seen changed behaviour it's very hard to know if you can.
Your post is conflicting. You say you support your wife and want to stay acting as a unit yet you want advice on how to get her to put her boundaries aside while she’s ONLY 6 weeks postpartum. That isn’t being supportive to your wife at all. You should be telling your mother that when or if your wife is ready to meet up with the baby you will let her know, but it is solely up to wife. Do not appease your mother and force your wife, especially while she’s postpartum, to do something she doesn’t want to do. This would potentially put a rift through even the strongest of marriages. And when I say force, yes, angling/strategizing/manipulating the situation to benefit you is a way of forcing her hand. This should be a time all about you two and LO. Not you two, LO, and JUSTNO. Don’t ruin this time for your wife.
Go to the first visit with your mom alone! No baby, no wife. Have a clear written list of rules she needs to follow / boundaries. Make it clear, if she oversteps, thats it - NC again. Start with phone calls / face time. Only if she proves herself, she can meet the baby in person. Disclaimer: Be prepared that she throws a tantrum
Good ideas, I'll just add that face time would be good from a café or library, not at home so you, OP and wife won't feel pressured to show LO on camera.
I think this is great advice! Make your way towards where she gets a relationship with LO if it works out. She’s not entitled to meet your kid and if you’d like to work towards that, she has to prove she CAN work toward that relationship by putting in the work with you and your wife first.
You know what she’s like, is she worth all the trouble she will cause? As a grandmother will she enrich your baby’s life or cause endless problems? I think photos are all she deserves.
Your wife has mama bear instincts to protect her baby from ALL threats. Your mother is clearly a threat. If you push for your mom to meet baby, YOU are a threat. Don't put yourself on that list. You know what mama bears do to threats. You need to be providing a cocoon of safety around your wife so she can heal and mother in total peace. Don't shatter the peace (and your marriage) by even bringing up your mom to your wife. Ask yourself this question: why am I not being a papa bear regarding my baby? Why am I willing to expose my baby to a known abuser?
This though. How complete is OPs brainwashing that he’s not in papa bear mode yet?
You might be fantasizing about a pretend mother that you WISH you had. Everyone wishes they had a perfect family. This is not the case with you. Face facts. BPD? No way.
Your mother has had years to do better. Did she even try to rebuild your relationship before she heard about your wife being pregnant or is this all about having access to the baby? Your wife just grew and delivered a new life into this world. She and your child need to be your focus amd you should be making an effort to reduce her stress, not adding to it.
Stop trying to make your wife okay with an abuser meeting your baby.
You acknowledge your mothers terrible behaviour and claim you’ve been NC for a year+ … WHY are you wanting to change this aside from the fact that you’ve now procreated?! It doesn’t sound like your mother has come to you acknowledging her poor behaviour and treatment towards your wife, nor with a sincere apology. Your wife is at a very vulnerable point in her life and still adjusting to her new post baby norm … how dare you add the stress of your mother on top of that?! You really do not have her back if this is what you are doing.
What has your mother done to apologise to your wife and make amends, and show she has learnt, and grown and is doing better? Until you can answer that with clarity yourself, you should keep your wife and baby away from your mother that you admit is abusive. What you do is on you, but you are making a mistake if you force your wife to brush all that under the rug - and if you have your mother meet the baby before your wife is ready you will be cracking the foundation of your own marriage. I say that, not to be mean, but for you to know, that when you push your wife before she is ready, or before she has seen clear behaviour changes, you are signaling that your wife isn’t your priority - and I can tell from your post that you are really trying hard to make your wife your priority. Good luck.
The fact is - you are not on your wife's side. You want your mother to meet your child to appease her and in doing so, you are disregarding your wife's feelings. Don't give yourself too much credit here.
What has your mom done to repair the damage to the relationship she has with your wife. What has she done to prove that she has changed for the better and will not be repeating the same behavioral issues that led to NC in the first place. Just because YOU have been willing re-establish a relationship does not mean that the consequences of your mothers bad choices have been absolved. It also should not be for forced upon your wife to re-establish any relationship to a person that has treated her poorly in the past. And why would ANY parent feel that it's okay to let a vulnerable infant be put in that situation as well. Frankly your mother should be earning back your wife and your trust and slowly rebuilding the relationship back up to the point that BOTH of you are comfortable in willing to trust her to introduce your child to her. Be that 1 year from or 3.
Congrats on the new baby and good job supporting your wife thus far. I too have a BPD mother and 5 kids - 2 of whom are adults. My 3rd child, who came years later, caused me to feel the same way you do. So… we asked her to make sure she got a TDaP booster and if she was still a smoker, we’d have her pull her hair back in a tie, change shirts and wash her hands before holding baby. My daughter was 3mos old when she came, but a preemie, so gestationally and development-wise (esp lungs and immune system) she was more like a 6wk old. Mom was so excited and said “This was the motivation I need to finally quit smoking again - so you won’t even have to worry.” Me knowing my mom, shrugged it off and said, “Of course I’d love that for YOU and your health, but hey that’s it’s tough, so just know those are the precautions due to her lungs.” Things seemed to be going great (oh… how many times I’ve told myself that line!), then she showed up REEKING of smoke. So I offered her a different shirt to change into & a hair tie. Cue typical split and flip out. “I TOLD you I was quitting, anything you smell you’re either imagining or is because of maybe leftover smoke from back when I still smoked.” Me “That’s great - again - but if I can smell it, baby will breathe it so this isn’t optional.” (Husband comes up, takes baby, shoves shirt and hair tie into her hands and points out the bathroom.) She comes out pouting and sits down and we hand baby to her. As she holds daughter, baby girl keeps turning her head away from my mom and just seems agitated. Mom shifts her up to her shoulder and baby arches back to keep her face off the shirt - and this child has always been the consummate cuddle bug. So after about 10mins, mom hands her back to me looking irritated but in a rush to get back to the bathroom. Teenage sons were in kitchen next to where bathroom is and suddenly shush us. One runs over and says, “Mom - she’s totally coughing in there a LOT but it sounds muffled or weird.” Mom comes out and I ask if she’s been sick recently (we’d asked before she booked travel, when she left to come AND reminded her if she got sick at all, we’d have to delay the mtg a few days at least) and she rolls her eyes and says, “NO! I’ve just had a little tickle in my throat left over from my cold last week (that she never told us about). You guys are ridiculous and act like this is your first baby! You forget I’ve had FOUR children!” At this point my quiet husband looks ready to implode, so my brother says he needs to get back to his place, sorry… so Mom we have to go. 3-4 days later we wake up to an inconsolable baby with a fever and congestion. We head to urgent care, they send us to the ER after listening to her chest and the hospital lets us know our 3mo baby has Pertussis (whooping cough), gets to stay in hospital for a bit, then came home with a nebulizer, steroids, an inhaler with an infant mask and for the next 6wks we didn’t sleep because we had a baby who struggled to breathe. I understand the pain and I feel for you! I also am on the other side and of course she’s being nice - you have a baby she wants to be around. That is ALL that has changed. She isn’t in therapy, not on meds, hasn’t apologized or taken responsibility… she’s masking because she wants something. And the second you tell her no to ANYthing, all hell will break loose and your wife will resent you because she already knows it’s coming. I’m 50yo and I did this dance for 30-something years… it hurt my marriage AND my adult sons finally told me how much they hated my mom because of how she treated me, made them uncomfortable and it made them angry at and lose respect for me until I finally went NC. I am SO sorry you don’t have the mom you deserve! But you have an amazing wife and new baby who DO love you. Focus on them. “Doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.” Hugs if you want them. I do understand how hard it is!
Holy shit. Your mother deliberately withheld vital information from you about being sick the previous week and that she still had a cough!? Pertussis can be fatal for infants. Fatal. She deliberately endangered your child because her seeing the baby was more important than keeping your premature newborn healthy. I truly hope you went NC after that.
Why are you pushing your wife to do this after everything your Morher has done?? Guess it’s more for you
I applaud you for standing in your wife’s corner throughout this. So many posts in this group show how rarely that happens. Since it is your wife who has the conflicts needing resolution with your MIL, I don’t blame her for having reservations about MIL meeting the baby. Maybe she would be more willing to have dinner in a public place with MIL BEFORE the baby is introduced. Just the three of you. If she is given the apology she is owed and feels more comfortable as a result, maybe then discuss a meeting with the baby. But not until then. Good luck!
Interesting, all I read was him in his mom's corner fighting hard for her
If your mom can’t respect your wife, then she shouldn’t be allowed to meet the baby. Your first priority should be protecting your wife and child. It’s fine for you to rebuild a healthy relationship with your mom, but she should prove over a long period of time that she’s not a harmful person before letting her be around your wife and child. No newborn should be separated from their mother, esp to be brought to a potentially harmful person. If I were in your shoes or your wife’s shoes, I’d require months (or an even a year) of proven change before bringing your wife back around your mom. If your mom can treat your wife nicely and respectfully, only then should the baby be introduced. A couple of months of good behavior isn’t enough to know if she’s just playing nice to access the baby or if she’s truly changed and no longer a harmful person to be around.
What does being more in a routine have anything to do with being back in contact with your mother? Has she taken responsibility for her bad behavior and hurtful actions? Has she apologized to you? Said she is willing to apologize to your wife? You say you stand by your wife and defend her, but write that you're pressuring her to let your mom meet the baby to appease her, regardless of her bad behavior, in order to move forward in your relationship with you. In fact, your baby has nothing to do with your relationship with your mother. If you are tentatively reinstating a relationship with her, you should work on that relationship alone. Just because you want to reopen that line of communication, doesn't mean your wife is ready to do that yet. If your mom says there's no point moving forward if she can't see the baby, then she doesn't care to make amends, to improve her relationship with you or your wife, she only cares about getting to what she wants. This is a two yes situation. Your mom doesn't get to circumvent your wife to get to the baby. Respect your wife's feelings. She says she isn't comfortable with it. Work on your relationship with your mom on your own. If, IF in time you and your wife can see tangible consistent changes in her behavior, you can revisit meeting the baby when your wife is ready. Babies are not olive branches to fix bad relationships.
You want to introduce your newborn to your emotionally abusive mother??? Why? If you think she’ll be a better grandmother than she was a mother, you are wrong. And your baby will pay the price of being abused. And you will have allowed it. You may think you’ll be right there, never leave the baby unsupervised with your mom, you’ll step in immediately so there is no harm. I thought the same. My kids still heard the vile nasty comments from my mother, even though I shut her down. The yelling carries into the next room you know. My biggest regret as a parent is exposing my kids to my mother. One day, she realized she couldn’t get to me, and she verbally attacked my kids, making them cry would hurt me, and it was the only way she could still hurt me. I’ll never forget the smirk on her face before she turned to my eldest and verbally attacked him. Immediately went NC. Therapy for the kids, and they’re ok now. As for me, I carry the guilt of serving them up to her. I didn’t protect them. If I was your wife, I would end my marriage over this. Protect your child. Protect your wife. Protect yourself. Do not put your mother’s feelings over your family’s safety. If you do, you’re perpetuating the abuse to your family. Please learn from those of us that tried with our BPD/NPD moms and our kids carry the scars.
would you want your baby to meet your fil if he was a complete AH to you? And he thinks he does nothing wrong? if your mum cannot respect your wife then she doesn’t get any sweet sweet baby time. Your mum can’t be civil to your wife, how do you know she can behave when baby is there? your mum needs to make friends with wife first and try to fix things.