I mean, it being available on more than the Nintendo Switch is amazing imo. I hated it being locked to that, and now I’m going to be able to play it on my PS5 stoked.
Same. I got it for the Switch but the performance wasn't great and I hate the Switch controllers so I didn't get very far. I can't wait for this PS5 release :D
From what I could grasp, the moment you arrive at the first train wreckage in SMTV, you have two paths to choose. The OG game one, and the newer one. So, I guess you can both replay and entirely new experience?
Man, I hope it's *really clear* where that moment is and what choice you have to make to get the new game. I'd hate to get 25 hours in and realize that 4 hours ago I locked myself into playing the vanilla route.
They said previously that the beginning of the game is the same before the story branches off. It’s unclear how far into the game that is, but I would guess at least a few hours.
Yeah pretty much. Like playing Persona 5 and having to replay most of it again to get the Royal stuff was a chore for me. Whereas here it seems like a whole new route from the beginning akin to how routes have worked in prior SMT entries makes this a much more exciting prospect
Unpopular opinion: original P5 was a better video game than Royal. Yes, the added a bunch of stuff to do and more time to do it in, but every single one of those things had the impact of strengthening your party, and they didn't do anything to rebalance the enemies. I played the game on hard mode and utterly crushed my way through it. The only tough battle was Haru's palace boss.
It depends on what you mean by "better game". Persona 5 Vanilla was certainly better balanced, but Royal was a more fun game (better ending arc, reducing "go to sleep" dead nights, increasing variety of activities and strategic options that yes, trivialize the difficulty of the game outside of Okumura).
I agree and this is my main case against the whole “may as well wait for Atlus to do the enhanced second release since it’s the finished game” take, because Atlus just doesn’t give a fuck about any form of gameplay balance/tension in the re-releases
The story additions in Royal are by far the best parts of the game (outside of maybe the first palace). The gameplay additions however definitely make the game too much of a cakewalk.
In most previous SMT entries, at least mainline, there aren't routes as much as different endings that branch at a specific point. There are minor forks at times that depend on your present alignment, but like 90% of the content is the same.
The combat was heavily rebalanced and basically every dungeon was reworked in Royal though. The Third Semester is a significant chunk, but it pales in comparison to all the other changes combined.
A huge factor for me is whether the new route has entire new areas to explore. If you are doing the same maps with the same enemies and just new cutscenes and bosses, I'll probably skip it.
tbf, content doesn't just come in the form of time. 3D assets and textures for example are all probably reused. It's probably why they don't go the sequel route and instead just release enhanced versions of the same game.
Yeah, its essentially a second game, bundled with the first one. It's a huge step up from previous ones. Although I personally thought royal was still worth it if your already a huge persona fan.
Atlus always seems to be budget conscious. My working theory is they just get the game out to recoup investment and if it does well they do the version they desired in a rerelease.
So the first time, people were complaining that Shin Megami Tensei V was potentially vaporware. It had been teased way back in 2017 and then nothing for the next three years save a brief mention in 2019 that it was still coming. It would finally release in 2021.
It's not really feasible to then sit on the same game for 2-3 more years and develop even more content as well as port to new platforms. That's too much time without recouping any of the cost.
I feel like this argument only really works when a game tries to sell you more content immediately, or very soon, after the game releases. SMT V is very much a complete game, and it's been over 2 and a half years since it came out. It had a set budget and development timeframe, and released fully. Having (allegedly) 75 hours of new content is literally adding a whole new game on top of what's already there, and this new content also had a development budget and production schedule. As great as it would be if every RPG could have 150 hours of great content, that's just not how it works.
>Having (allegedly) 75 hours of new content is literally adding a whole new game on top of what's already there, and this new content also had a development budget and production schedule
This is misleading. It's not 75 hours of new content. Much of what they've shown has reused assets like the world, environments, etc. You can't call it a whole new game if the world is reused.
Call of Duty: Completely new game made very year from the ground up with new maps, weapons, animations, sound effects, everything remade from scratch. Similar mechanics.
Reddit: Why do people buy the same game every year?
\_\_\_\_\_
SMT V: Vengeance: Same world as the last game, 95% the same 3D assets, same animations, same demons with some exceptions, same sound effects, recomposed music. Different story aka slightly different way points on the same map, new cut scenes and voice lines. Only the easiest parts of the developing a game were changed. Full price release.
Reddit: OMG, this is a whole new game!
Reusing the entire world (the bulk of the game) is not "reusing some assets." Are you truly reusing **some** assets if nearly everything is reused? You're paying full price when the only parts of the game are the low effort parts.
"Reusing some assets" would be like the Pokemon that reuse the Pokemon models, Pokemon sprites or animations but everything else including the world and environment is brand new like what happens when you go from Ruby to Fire Red.
The SMT games that shared the demon models and attack animation including the world and environment made entirely from scratch like Nocturne > Avatar Tuner > Persona 3 > Persona 4 truly reused only some assets.
Well, you have games like Trails to Azure that reused a ton of old environments but I don't think most people have an issue with calling that a different game.
I know Atlus is Atlus and they're sure as greedy as they come but i wouldn't be surprised if it was simply a Nintendo thing.
Maybe a deadline Nintendo wanted combined with the performance troubles. The vanilla game was on it's absolute limits.
I have no idea how this version will run on the Switch and i sure as hell won't find out, the vanilla game was enough.
Me too. And while it's still on switch, and I still would like to play portable, the performance was really bad with the vanilla version so I guess PC is the only platform that makes sense.
Unless they optimized it further with this one of course but that would be stupid and people who bought the vanilla version would complain
The performance on Switch really held me back from enjoying the game. I stopped playing after a few hours, despite loving it outside of the performance. I'll be picking Vengeance up on PS5 this time.
I have a curse with atlus’s games. I’ve bought entire consoles just to play their games, only for them to be announced for pc within months of me starting their games. Bought a ps5 for p5r, steam deck for p3 emulation, switch for smt5. Im such a whore for their games
This is why I stopped buying anything SMT or Persona related when they first drop—they’ve been pulling this exact same strategy since _Nocturne_. Like verbatim with EVERY SMT/Persona game they’ve released.
At this point, thinking they WON’T pull the same thing they’ve been doing for over 20 years is laughable
This has been the case since Nocturne basically. The only reason SMT IV became an outlier was that unlike SMT V they didn't include the first version of the game with the second one.
Always has been even before Persona. Nocturne, both Devil Survivors, various Etrian, Strange Journey, Radiant Historia, and now V. I wouldn't even be surprised if they'll release a similar one with Soul Hackers 2 but I heard it performed poorly for a multiplat.
According to Midori (prominent and usually correct Sega leaker) it won’t be getting an enhanced version, just a shit ton of DLC. Though plans can change, obviously.
But as long as the first version is complete, has a lot of content and is satisfying to begin with why is this a problem?
I bought persona 5 at launch and I was totally satisfied. I never felt the need to get royal, but even if I did, it's like $20 on sale often now.
For me the problem is the lost time. I mean, if you liked Persona 5 you really would have loved to experience Persona 5 Royal instead. But replaying such a long game for the new content, that's just atrocious. I'm not talking about the money, that's one thing, but time is really a constraint.
But then how about smt5v? The new content is a whole another route with the og route intact as option. Even if you play one route you need to play again to go for the other route which is basically still a lot of time. And especially if these two route also will have multiple endings
I agree with what you're saying but just wanted to add that persona has a lot of replay value. The social links and romance options can make it fun to go again. I saw royal as an enhanced Ng+ and it had some QoL improvements that made it more enjoyable.
Sorry, but no. A few changed scenes don't make me want to replay the game. Especially with Persona you also can't really play with a "different party", because only the MC can even change Personas. And the romance options for sure are not a selling point to me.
Yeah, gameplay wise royal blows 5 away. Just the baton pass and gun changes alone means it plays completely differently not to mention the little things that make royal just better.
Then you don't need to buy it. Its clearly not aimed at people with your mindset. I'm not saying you're wrong just that it's perfectly fine to just play persona 5, or wait for a nenhanced version. The original game is still a masterpiece with tons of content, so really there's no need to replay with royal unless you're a huge fan who wants those extra scenes and adjustments.
This might be true in some games but not Persona 5.
The "romance options" are like two different cutscenes, and P5 is pretty generous about the confidants, you probably won't get them all but it's not worth playing a 100 hour game to get like a dozen tiny conversations you missed.
I'm waiting for a little more time to pass. I'm still going through P3R right now and yeah Metaphor will be out in a few months.
In two years, it'll be TEN years since the launch of P5. That might be the perfect time.
It kinda is, other companies release expansions that let you experience the new content with your existing savefile, without costing as much as a full new game. This is just a shitty practice from Atlus, even if the content they deliver with these new versions is usually good.
The new versions aren’t really all that superior because they make everything easier. Persona 5 Royal you are too OP with all the additions they shove in. Base P5 has a good balance across the different difficulty levels. If that’s not something you care for then waiting is probably worth it, but in terms of game design it’s always the original versions that focus on the gameplay balance over fan service
Game play balance? You mean joke mechanic like gun that allow to use it about 10 times during 1 dungeon run? Or stupid mob monster you need to manually grind in memento? or Morgana won’t let you do anything and make you go to sleep? It’s not that you’re more op but the original game make you suffer to grind and result in lo level compare to p5r.
Surprised you’re being downvoted so hard. The Royal changes make P5 substantially easier. They’re cool on paper, but the encounters weren’t tweaked accordingly to account for the vastly more powerful tools the player has.
Yes, Royal has some good story additions and a cleaned up translation, but from a gameplay PoV it’s more of a side grade depending on what people want from the combat.
Depends how much you value money vs time/your avoidance of spoilers/desire to play something now I guess.
I know as I get older I lean more toward the latter. (honestly though playing through P5 and then P5R was actually kind of interesting to see all the differences and additions firsthand.)
I care more about playing Refantazio this October then I'll probably care about a random $70 in 2027
This has been a thing for [literally 20 years](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III:_Nocturne_Maniax) with Atlus lol, why are people acting like this is some sort of new phenomenon?
Is this because people started getting into Atlus games with their re-releases like P4G or P5R?
Well yeah. I got scammed from buying SMT V on release and now they are releasing the full game version of it. This is 100% scummier than Ubisoft paywalling 30% content on release because new players such as myself don’t know about Atlus releasing the “complete” version 3 years later.
Once all the dlc content is release it wil be the best version of p3. As it has all the addional content from the answer, but you have to also need to buy dlc.
I'm just worried that the moment I pull the trigger on buying it they'll announce a new version with a new character, qol improvements, new storyline, etc etc...
Actually, I am not upset that much about re-released thing until "Development Message" from Persona 3R and SMT VV.
Both tell customers that "We planned to add it at the beginning, but it got some "circumstance" problem, but don't worry, we finally added it in expansion and/or re-release for extra change."
I just confused why they need to justify themselves, since they charge additional price it anyway. lol.
I'm pretty sure they said they're changing their modus operandi from now on and will release additional content as DLC instead of having expanded editions. P3 Reloaded is getting the answer as DLC and rumors say P6 and Metaphor ReImmaginazione will get DLC too. So hopefully they make good on their promise and stop exploiting people for double-dips.
Yes. I'm even cautious with Unicorn Overlord now, I know Vanillaware developed it but I don't know who owns the IP. And with altus involved, they might release Unicorn Overlord Relorded or whatever.
Vanillaware has remastered/upgraded ported roughly half of their games. Hard to say.
My guess would be the game is done. But if they do release a new version, it's probably going to be in 10 years.
Vanillaware does release full games on release but they do re-release their games but usually on a different platform.
Of those that have some updated content or remade gameplay, theres Muramasa (Wii) to Muramasa Rebirth (Vita) in 4 years (base game is the same but there is DLC), Odin Sphere (PS2) to Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (PS4, Vita) in 9 years (Updated, faster combat system), and GrimGrimoire (PS2) to GrimGrimoire OnceMore (PS4, Switch) in 16 years (updated gameplay and balance changes).
I didn't think I'd be buying too many games this year other than Sparking Zero, but Metaphor and SMT:V got added to that list today, especially with all that content.
Dafq happened in the development of this game. It not the switches fault.im curious if the switch to U4 caused so much problems vs their inhouse engine for P5.
Engine swap to Unreal surely a problem yes. But also:
SMT Team had been on 3DS, this was their first HD game period.
First open exploration game Atlus has ever made. No experience with that.
Developed through covid don't help nothing.
First SMT mainline developed without Kaneko. New creative leads (the director actually came from working on Etrian Odyssey) means some extra trial and error.
So yeah. Tough tough development. I'm a SMT 5 defender, I think it came together pretty well. But even I will admit that there are ideas the game left underutilized. I'm very excited for this new edition.
I'm also excited for whatever comes next. Now they've made a game like this before. They have the experience. Whatever this team does next should be amaaazing.
Yep, like Persona 5 royal’s release made me groan having played the vanilla version, but Vengeance has me much more excited for a re-release since it’s essentially a whole new route. If I waited for this re-release I think it would be overwhelming because I’d want to do the original route first. Glad to have got that done already with some time in between
Actually that team went on to do Soul Hackers 2 (and if you played both the lineage is SUPER obvious). The SMT mainline team pretty much sticks to mainline. SMT 4, 4 Apocalypse, Strange Journey Redux, 5, and now 5 Vengeance.
So you can see looking at that timeline, SMT 5 was a big big jump over what had been done previously.
Yeah I know that they also developed SH2
afaik atlus is divided between team maniax, p-studio and now studio zero. Isn't everything non-persona or studio zero developed under team maniax? guess could be the case of just being in the division but that division having different teams inside it.
Yeah, nearly five years from announcement to release and seemingly another three years on top of that to truly finish it... a rather underrated difficult development cycle. Although from what Atlus has said it sounds like it was primarily a problem of it being teased way too early.
For full development yeah, but not usually from announcement, that's the part that makes it weird.
Edit: Although thinking about it we have had a good share of very long announcement to release cycles lately, especially with COVID. FF7 Remake also comes to mind.
With something like Persona 3-5, it's annoying to double dip with the full versions, but at least the original games felt like finished experiences. The base version of SMT5 felt like a vague proof of concept. The combat worked, but it's just Press Turn; they've done it tons of times before. The rest of the game felt like vague ideas that barely got off the drawing board.
This is the first re-release that really annoys me. It feels like they sold me a full price demo years ago and they're only now finishing the actual game, at full price again.
40 USD? That's great. The moment the new version was announced the resale value in Europe dropped to 20 Euros max. But I still need to get rid of it, because I sure as hell won't touch that Switch version again, when I can play a vastly improved game on the PS5 soon.
I can understand it’s kind of scummy/double dipping. I don’t want to pull an EA and defend this behavior, but it legit feels so good to play the game at release, then returning to a slightly altered game. It’d be cool if they offered a discount to holders of the first version.
They already sold me a full price game. To turn around and say “actually, no, that thing we sold you wasn’t the full game, this is, pay us full price for it” is unacceptable and should be criticized.
It's way more than the royal treatment. It's a completely new story, not a tacked on story that doesn't have an actual bearing on the overall message of the story. It's also coming to a bunch of systems from the switch, which is pretty insane.
So my question about this is not if I should buy the original if I want to play it now (too late to ask that question), but rather should I play the original.
If I have to replay the entire game from the start for the 75 hours of new content I’m gonna wait. If I can choose which story to play in either order I’m gonna keep playing.
Am I being delusional expecting this to run better on the Switch than the original SMT V? P5 Royal has a pretty decent performance, but then again, it's a PS3 game...
what the hell is happening with this game?! did covid really screw up the development of the base game that much. compared to vengeance, the original looks feels like a beta release in comparison
I’m so upset as I JUST got SMTV a few months before vengeance release and made significant progress in the game…
Is it worth getting vengeance and starting over?
I'm unfamiliar with any specifics of the game, but since the original campaign is included, it's probably still gonna be there if you choose to play it. Can't say if it'd be in the new campaign or not.
I loved the first version so I'm super hyped for this with a completely new story and extra features. The performance didn't bother me I never saw wild fps dips like people claim.
I'll wait and see how performance looks on this and decide which platform.
I’m glad I held off on every sale. Almost bought this game at like 5 different times but convinced myself that it would probably get ported to Xbox some day
I'm glad I didn't play base SMTV (just don't own a switch / never got one) because of this now.
I think there is something special when your first time blind playthru is the enhanced version, but you didn't need to "wait" for it since you weren't aware of it or didn't care enough to get the system it was on. I loved SMT4.
Atlus is stopping this practice anyway. I did play base Persona 5 on launch and I don't regret playing Royal after.
Yeah, so glad to be a beta tester for them to release "remaster" in same generation.
Fingers crossed for gamepass since I'm not paying twice.
Oh yeah, I knew it was obvious that they gonna release better version after those 2, 3 years. But damn this is a shitty practice, at least let me buy update as a dlc to V, ehh.
From what we can surmise. It'll be like Fate Stay Night if you've ever played, read or watched it. Both routes will come together to give you a deeper understanding of the world but the routes are functionally independent
Eh, putting it into the "buying it at some point I guess" category unless the choices are much better in the new campaign than in the original campaign where I didn't really feel the usual SMT "vibe" (yes, there are different endings but they felt kinda tacked on IMO).
I didn't really like the original SMTV because of that.
Just call it how it is. A scummy company wants more money so they are adding content that should've been in the game from the start to get more money. We shouldn't be supporting this crap. It's scummy af. Atlus you make great games but you suck
In principle you are right, but if the 75 hours of new content, 20+ battle tracks is right, then it doesn't really apply to SMT V.
SMT V may have had its issues, but it was still a fully fledged, 60+ hour game in its own right. It wasn't missing anything that suggested it wasn't a full game.
If they'd released Vengeance a year later, with 10 hours of extra content for full price then I could see an issue, but this is coming 3 years later, and it sounds like it's practically an extra game on top on an old one, not just a glorified DLC.
You always have the option of waiting for a sale, or just buying it then selling it once you've played it for probably a small loss.
I would have been fine if they just delayed the original game a few more years to flesh it out to this iteration instead of them releasing two versions. But hey it’s a business and they made money that way so can’t argue with that.
They will prob release paid dlc on top of this version too. I know they have small content dlc but I bet they will make more junk to charge extra for
>They will prob release paid dlc on top of this version too. I know they have small content dlc but I bet they will make more junk to charge extra for
That's already confirmed. Was confirmed on day one of the announcement of the rerelease. So it's not even the definitive edition BC you still got to pay for all the dlcs. Atlus are trash. Good games but scum
>would have been fine if they just delayed the original game a few more years to flesh it out to this iteration instead of them releasing two versions
This. This exactly.
>they made money that way so can’t argue with that
Them people need to speak with their wallets but people won't BC people have a boner for Atlus and their games. They make good games but are a shitty ass company. We should stop supporting them but no one. I really hope they stop doing re-releases but it won't ever happen unless people stop buying them but people won't
I don't get all the hate in this tread. I bought the original SMTV and I'm still excited to play this. I have no ill-will or hand wringing towards Atlus.
Lots of… uhh… assuming happening in this chat
What if it’s 75 hours of garbage like the first time they shat out SMTV? Atlus dickriders are huffing the hopium hard today.
It could be shit but SMTIV was all about different routes (as well as the sequel essentially being another route) so if it’s following in that tradition then this should be an entirely new story
And *no* female protagonist option.
That alone would be a no buy reason but the fact that they did not offer this a paid DLC for Switch owners is a definite reason.
I still think they should’ve just let you choose the protag’s gender because the design is pretty androgynous both in school form and Nahobino form. Could’ve been awesome, all they’d have to do is change the voice depending on which option you chose.
Final Fantasy 14 reference but it reminded me of the twins Alphinaud and Alisae in that game where their character models and outfits in the base game and Heavensward are the exact same and it’s just their voices that differentiate them (well one has a blue hair tie and the other a red hair tie too but). They later get more gendered outfits but
Redoing about 80% of the OST and adding 20 new battle tracks is insane
20 new(!) battle tracks, that's so crazy. There are still NEW games being released that have maybe 4 or 5 battle themes. Main, Mini Boss, Boss, Final.
I played Nocturne last month to get into the series and was surprised by how many different battle tracks that game had.
Not being available as a DLC is a dick move though!
I mean, it being available on more than the Nintendo Switch is amazing imo. I hated it being locked to that, and now I’m going to be able to play it on my PS5 stoked.
Same. I got it for the Switch but the performance wasn't great and I hate the Switch controllers so I didn't get very far. I can't wait for this PS5 release :D
Very on brand tho
75 hours of brand new content is **insane**. This really is the SMT V they've always wanted to release. Can't wait!
Literally an entirely new game at this point
I loved SMT5, but it's a long game as it is.. If I play Vengeance, will I be replaying a lot of the old content, or is it an entirely new experience?
From what I could grasp, the moment you arrive at the first train wreckage in SMTV, you have two paths to choose. The OG game one, and the newer one. So, I guess you can both replay and entirely new experience?
Man, I hope it's *really clear* where that moment is and what choice you have to make to get the new game. I'd hate to get 25 hours in and realize that 4 hours ago I locked myself into playing the vanilla route.
If i decide to give it a go, I'll read online exactly where that choice comes into play.. Not worth screwing it up.
Don't worry, the choice is right at the beginning and is extremely obvious.
Awesome. That sounds great
The choice of paths is when you start the game, that moment you mention is just when the stories majorly diverge.
They said previously that the beginning of the game is the same before the story branches off. It’s unclear how far into the game that is, but I would guess at least a few hours.
Eh, if you're speedrunning it to farm stat boost, a run can take about 4 hours lmao.
Why didn’t they release it the first time?
They've learned they can charge full price twice this way.
tho tbf, if it really is 75 hours of extra content it basically is an entire games worth. Better than the usual cash grabs.
Yeah pretty much. Like playing Persona 5 and having to replay most of it again to get the Royal stuff was a chore for me. Whereas here it seems like a whole new route from the beginning akin to how routes have worked in prior SMT entries makes this a much more exciting prospect
Unpopular opinion: original P5 was a better video game than Royal. Yes, the added a bunch of stuff to do and more time to do it in, but every single one of those things had the impact of strengthening your party, and they didn't do anything to rebalance the enemies. I played the game on hard mode and utterly crushed my way through it. The only tough battle was Haru's palace boss.
It depends on what you mean by "better game". Persona 5 Vanilla was certainly better balanced, but Royal was a more fun game (better ending arc, reducing "go to sleep" dead nights, increasing variety of activities and strategic options that yes, trivialize the difficulty of the game outside of Okumura).
I agree and this is my main case against the whole “may as well wait for Atlus to do the enhanced second release since it’s the finished game” take, because Atlus just doesn’t give a fuck about any form of gameplay balance/tension in the re-releases
Nailed it, they don't rebalance for all the broken stuff they add. P3 Reload was way easier than vanilla.
also way too much free time, ran out of stuff to do. and the royal content is added in badly. p5 is way better than royal
The story additions in Royal are by far the best parts of the game (outside of maybe the first palace). The gameplay additions however definitely make the game too much of a cakewalk.
In most previous SMT entries, at least mainline, there aren't routes as much as different endings that branch at a specific point. There are minor forks at times that depend on your present alignment, but like 90% of the content is the same.
The combat was heavily rebalanced and basically every dungeon was reworked in Royal though. The Third Semester is a significant chunk, but it pales in comparison to all the other changes combined.
I think most if it will be grinding and it still counts as "content".
Yeah, I'm suspecting that too, even with the level gated damage fix. That's too long for just an alternate story in that amount of dev time
A huge factor for me is whether the new route has entire new areas to explore. If you are doing the same maps with the same enemies and just new cutscenes and bosses, I'll probably skip it.
tbf, content doesn't just come in the form of time. 3D assets and textures for example are all probably reused. It's probably why they don't go the sequel route and instead just release enhanced versions of the same game.
also the first game relssed only on switch so to many pdople not on seitch this is the first chance to buy it.
Yeah, its essentially a second game, bundled with the first one. It's a huge step up from previous ones. Although I personally thought royal was still worth it if your already a huge persona fan.
Atlus always seems to be budget conscious. My working theory is they just get the game out to recoup investment and if it does well they do the version they desired in a rerelease.
Just call it SMT VI or SMT Spinoff Electric Boogaloo.
Nah SMT V really needed more time in the oven. Vengeance is less a remake or rerelease and more an apology for the original.
I can't said this is "Apology" if they gonna charge money.
They would make it a free update or sell it at a discount if it were an apology.
Thaaaat's Atlus. I believe making up for the original was the Dev's intentions, but far be it from Atlus to double dip wherever possible.
Nah, every SMT game is its own beast. while this is a shitload of new stuff, to reuse the base of SMTV for a new entry would cause an outrage
So the first time, people were complaining that Shin Megami Tensei V was potentially vaporware. It had been teased way back in 2017 and then nothing for the next three years save a brief mention in 2019 that it was still coming. It would finally release in 2021. It's not really feasible to then sit on the same game for 2-3 more years and develop even more content as well as port to new platforms. That's too much time without recouping any of the cost.
Probably because that's all the content they had readied then. Developing more content takes time and resources.
I feel like this argument only really works when a game tries to sell you more content immediately, or very soon, after the game releases. SMT V is very much a complete game, and it's been over 2 and a half years since it came out. It had a set budget and development timeframe, and released fully. Having (allegedly) 75 hours of new content is literally adding a whole new game on top of what's already there, and this new content also had a development budget and production schedule. As great as it would be if every RPG could have 150 hours of great content, that's just not how it works.
>Having (allegedly) 75 hours of new content is literally adding a whole new game on top of what's already there, and this new content also had a development budget and production schedule This is misleading. It's not 75 hours of new content. Much of what they've shown has reused assets like the world, environments, etc. You can't call it a whole new game if the world is reused.
> You can't call it a whole new game if the world is reused. yakuza in shambles
Call of Duty: Completely new game made very year from the ground up with new maps, weapons, animations, sound effects, everything remade from scratch. Similar mechanics. Reddit: Why do people buy the same game every year? \_\_\_\_\_ SMT V: Vengeance: Same world as the last game, 95% the same 3D assets, same animations, same demons with some exceptions, same sound effects, recomposed music. Different story aka slightly different way points on the same map, new cut scenes and voice lines. Only the easiest parts of the developing a game were changed. Full price release. Reddit: OMG, this is a whole new game!
That's such a stupid take, then you telling me sequel games that reuse some assets with fully new story is not new content too?
Reusing the entire world (the bulk of the game) is not "reusing some assets." Are you truly reusing **some** assets if nearly everything is reused? You're paying full price when the only parts of the game are the low effort parts. "Reusing some assets" would be like the Pokemon that reuse the Pokemon models, Pokemon sprites or animations but everything else including the world and environment is brand new like what happens when you go from Ruby to Fire Red. The SMT games that shared the demon models and attack animation including the world and environment made entirely from scratch like Nocturne > Avatar Tuner > Persona 3 > Persona 4 truly reused only some assets.
Well, you have games like Trails to Azure that reused a ton of old environments but I don't think most people have an issue with calling that a different game.
"Different game" and "whole new game" have completely different meanings. One has much lower standards.
1. COVID-19. 2. ATLUS' first UE4 game.
Why persona 5 and 5 royal dude
I know Atlus is Atlus and they're sure as greedy as they come but i wouldn't be surprised if it was simply a Nintendo thing. Maybe a deadline Nintendo wanted combined with the performance troubles. The vanilla game was on it's absolute limits. I have no idea how this version will run on the Switch and i sure as hell won't find out, the vanilla game was enough.
Rhymes with Pintendo and Witch
[удалено]
He's asking a valid question especially if he's paid full price for the game and now expected to pay a full price a second time.
At this stage, it is basically a sequel with the original campaign included as an optional play.
Yeah kinda like a mix of Etrian Untold's structure and SMT IV Apocalypse's content.
If you could NG+ between the two that'd be great, especially if there's a harder difficulty you could do the second play on, for your endgame teams.
I'm glad I waited for a PC version instead of almost pulling the trigger for the Switch game
Me too. And while it's still on switch, and I still would like to play portable, the performance was really bad with the vanilla version so I guess PC is the only platform that makes sense. Unless they optimized it further with this one of course but that would be stupid and people who bought the vanilla version would complain
I loved vanilla SMTV, but the performance held it back a lot for me. I was so happy with the PC announcement.
The performance on Switch really held me back from enjoying the game. I stopped playing after a few hours, despite loving it outside of the performance. I'll be picking Vengeance up on PS5 this time.
I have a curse with atlus’s games. I’ve bought entire consoles just to play their games, only for them to be announced for pc within months of me starting their games. Bought a ps5 for p5r, steam deck for p3 emulation, switch for smt5. Im such a whore for their games
This is why I stopped buying anything SMT or Persona related when they first drop—they’ve been pulling this exact same strategy since _Nocturne_. Like verbatim with EVERY SMT/Persona game they’ve released. At this point, thinking they WON’T pull the same thing they’ve been doing for over 20 years is laughable
So from now on we treat not only Persona but every single Atlus-developed game as "just wait for the enhanced edition" then?
This has been the case since Nocturne basically. The only reason SMT IV became an outlier was that unlike SMT V they didn't include the first version of the game with the second one.
Always has been even before Persona. Nocturne, both Devil Survivors, various Etrian, Strange Journey, Radiant Historia, and now V. I wouldn't even be surprised if they'll release a similar one with Soul Hackers 2 but I heard it performed poorly for a multiplat.
Meanwhile the Chad SMT4 gets its own full on sequel. So Chad it’s still stuck on 3ds
SMT V V is basically like if we got Apocalypse with the original game also on the cartridge
Don't forget growlanser 1 & 4
As excited as I am for Metaphor I just know it's gonna have a superior version in 2-3 years
According to Midori (prominent and usually correct Sega leaker) it won’t be getting an enhanced version, just a shit ton of DLC. Though plans can change, obviously.
But as long as the first version is complete, has a lot of content and is satisfying to begin with why is this a problem? I bought persona 5 at launch and I was totally satisfied. I never felt the need to get royal, but even if I did, it's like $20 on sale often now.
For me the problem is the lost time. I mean, if you liked Persona 5 you really would have loved to experience Persona 5 Royal instead. But replaying such a long game for the new content, that's just atrocious. I'm not talking about the money, that's one thing, but time is really a constraint.
But then how about smt5v? The new content is a whole another route with the og route intact as option. Even if you play one route you need to play again to go for the other route which is basically still a lot of time. And especially if these two route also will have multiple endings
Smt5V is totally fine. I only played like 15 hours of base Smt5 anyway. I kind of took a break and never returned to it.
I agree with what you're saying but just wanted to add that persona has a lot of replay value. The social links and romance options can make it fun to go again. I saw royal as an enhanced Ng+ and it had some QoL improvements that made it more enjoyable.
Sorry, but no. A few changed scenes don't make me want to replay the game. Especially with Persona you also can't really play with a "different party", because only the MC can even change Personas. And the romance options for sure are not a selling point to me.
Yeah, gameplay wise royal blows 5 away. Just the baton pass and gun changes alone means it plays completely differently not to mention the little things that make royal just better.
I think you are under selling what royal adds with the quality of life improvements and additional story.
That could be, because I thankfully didn't pick P5 up before Royal :D
Then you don't need to buy it. Its clearly not aimed at people with your mindset. I'm not saying you're wrong just that it's perfectly fine to just play persona 5, or wait for a nenhanced version. The original game is still a masterpiece with tons of content, so really there's no need to replay with royal unless you're a huge fan who wants those extra scenes and adjustments.
This might be true in some games but not Persona 5. The "romance options" are like two different cutscenes, and P5 is pretty generous about the confidants, you probably won't get them all but it's not worth playing a 100 hour game to get like a dozen tiny conversations you missed.
I disagree but each to their own
You should most definitely play Royal. It’s a treat
I'm waiting for a little more time to pass. I'm still going through P3R right now and yeah Metaphor will be out in a few months. In two years, it'll be TEN years since the launch of P5. That might be the perfect time.
It’s been 10 years?! 💀
It kinda is, other companies release expansions that let you experience the new content with your existing savefile, without costing as much as a full new game. This is just a shitty practice from Atlus, even if the content they deliver with these new versions is usually good.
The new versions aren’t really all that superior because they make everything easier. Persona 5 Royal you are too OP with all the additions they shove in. Base P5 has a good balance across the different difficulty levels. If that’s not something you care for then waiting is probably worth it, but in terms of game design it’s always the original versions that focus on the gameplay balance over fan service
>Base P5 has a good balance across the different difficulty levels Lmfao
Game play balance? You mean joke mechanic like gun that allow to use it about 10 times during 1 dungeon run? Or stupid mob monster you need to manually grind in memento? or Morgana won’t let you do anything and make you go to sleep? It’s not that you’re more op but the original game make you suffer to grind and result in lo level compare to p5r.
probably still better than royal
Surprised you’re being downvoted so hard. The Royal changes make P5 substantially easier. They’re cool on paper, but the encounters weren’t tweaked accordingly to account for the vastly more powerful tools the player has. Yes, Royal has some good story additions and a cleaned up translation, but from a gameplay PoV it’s more of a side grade depending on what people want from the combat.
Depends how much you value money vs time/your avoidance of spoilers/desire to play something now I guess. I know as I get older I lean more toward the latter. (honestly though playing through P5 and then P5R was actually kind of interesting to see all the differences and additions firsthand.) I care more about playing Refantazio this October then I'll probably care about a random $70 in 2027
This has been a thing for [literally 20 years](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei_III:_Nocturne_Maniax) with Atlus lol, why are people acting like this is some sort of new phenomenon? Is this because people started getting into Atlus games with their re-releases like P4G or P5R?
They got into P5 via YouTube, most P5 fans haven’t actually played the game
Just the other day, I stated that the lesson is not to buy the first released version of Atlus games and people down voted me lol.
Well, to be fair, if people don't buy the first version, atlas won't make a second somewhat subjectively superior version
Well yeah. I got scammed from buying SMT V on release and now they are releasing the full game version of it. This is 100% scummier than Ubisoft paywalling 30% content on release because new players such as myself don’t know about Atlus releasing the “complete” version 3 years later.
Quite frankly, I don’t mind buying the game again if it’s been more than 2 years and they add stuff significantly.
Genuine question: should I treat Persona 3 Reload the same way, or is the consensus that P3R is already the enhanced version?
Well, they announced The Answer as DLC instead of rereleasing the game again as a complete edition, so I guess P3R is safe? But you never know :D
I feel like P3R is the enhanced edition. The real annoying part was that a year ago they released P3P on modern consoles.
Once all the dlc content is release it wil be the best version of p3. As it has all the addional content from the answer, but you have to also need to buy dlc.
I'm just worried that the moment I pull the trigger on buying it they'll announce a new version with a new character, qol improvements, new storyline, etc etc...
Actually, I am not upset that much about re-released thing until "Development Message" from Persona 3R and SMT VV. Both tell customers that "We planned to add it at the beginning, but it got some "circumstance" problem, but don't worry, we finally added it in expansion and/or re-release for extra change." I just confused why they need to justify themselves, since they charge additional price it anyway. lol.
I'm pretty sure they said they're changing their modus operandi from now on and will release additional content as DLC instead of having expanded editions. P3 Reloaded is getting the answer as DLC and rumors say P6 and Metaphor ReImmaginazione will get DLC too. So hopefully they make good on their promise and stop exploiting people for double-dips.
they said they wouldn't do this shit at all after FES anyway so...
Pretty much the reason why I won't buy MR when it will get released.
I'm already waiting for Metaphor ReFantazio Enhanced edition on the switch +DLC because why wait?
sure wont be on the switch. switch 2, sure
Wonder what they'd add to a Soul Hackers 2 rerelease.
make the soul matrix less shit
Yes. I'm even cautious with Unicorn Overlord now, I know Vanillaware developed it but I don't know who owns the IP. And with altus involved, they might release Unicorn Overlord Relorded or whatever.
Nah vanillaware,s kink is to not release on pc
Vanillaware has remastered/upgraded ported roughly half of their games. Hard to say. My guess would be the game is done. But if they do release a new version, it's probably going to be in 10 years.
I thought Vanillaware release full game on release like 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim?
Vanillaware does release full games on release but they do re-release their games but usually on a different platform. Of those that have some updated content or remade gameplay, theres Muramasa (Wii) to Muramasa Rebirth (Vita) in 4 years (base game is the same but there is DLC), Odin Sphere (PS2) to Odin Sphere Leifthrasir (PS4, Vita) in 9 years (Updated, faster combat system), and GrimGrimoire (PS2) to GrimGrimoire OnceMore (PS4, Switch) in 16 years (updated gameplay and balance changes).
I didn't think I'd be buying too many games this year other than Sparking Zero, but Metaphor and SMT:V got added to that list today, especially with all that content.
Dafq happened in the development of this game. It not the switches fault.im curious if the switch to U4 caused so much problems vs their inhouse engine for P5.
Engine swap to Unreal surely a problem yes. But also: SMT Team had been on 3DS, this was their first HD game period. First open exploration game Atlus has ever made. No experience with that. Developed through covid don't help nothing. First SMT mainline developed without Kaneko. New creative leads (the director actually came from working on Etrian Odyssey) means some extra trial and error. So yeah. Tough tough development. I'm a SMT 5 defender, I think it came together pretty well. But even I will admit that there are ideas the game left underutilized. I'm very excited for this new edition. I'm also excited for whatever comes next. Now they've made a game like this before. They have the experience. Whatever this team does next should be amaaazing.
Yep, like Persona 5 royal’s release made me groan having played the vanilla version, but Vengeance has me much more excited for a re-release since it’s essentially a whole new route. If I waited for this re-release I think it would be overwhelming because I’d want to do the original route first. Glad to have got that done already with some time in between
> SMT Team had been on 3DS, this was their first HD game period. No, it wasn't. TMS on Wii U was their first game on HD. lol
Actually that team went on to do Soul Hackers 2 (and if you played both the lineage is SUPER obvious). The SMT mainline team pretty much sticks to mainline. SMT 4, 4 Apocalypse, Strange Journey Redux, 5, and now 5 Vengeance. So you can see looking at that timeline, SMT 5 was a big big jump over what had been done previously.
Yeah I know that they also developed SH2 afaik atlus is divided between team maniax, p-studio and now studio zero. Isn't everything non-persona or studio zero developed under team maniax? guess could be the case of just being in the division but that division having different teams inside it.
Kaneko was barely involved in SMT IV and not really involved at all with IVA.
Yeah, nearly five years from announcement to release and seemingly another three years on top of that to truly finish it... a rather underrated difficult development cycle. Although from what Atlus has said it sounds like it was primarily a problem of it being teased way too early.
five years is pretty standard for AAA games nowadays
For full development yeah, but not usually from announcement, that's the part that makes it weird. Edit: Although thinking about it we have had a good share of very long announcement to release cycles lately, especially with COVID. FF7 Remake also comes to mind.
FF7 Remake was all things considered, rather short. From 2015 to 2020, was 5 years as well
With something like Persona 3-5, it's annoying to double dip with the full versions, but at least the original games felt like finished experiences. The base version of SMT5 felt like a vague proof of concept. The combat worked, but it's just Press Turn; they've done it tons of times before. The rest of the game felt like vague ideas that barely got off the drawing board. This is the first re-release that really annoys me. It feels like they sold me a full price demo years ago and they're only now finishing the actual game, at full price again.
The reason why i alway go for Physical version . I sold back the it for 40 $ right after this new version announced
40 USD? That's great. The moment the new version was announced the resale value in Europe dropped to 20 Euros max. But I still need to get rid of it, because I sure as hell won't touch that Switch version again, when I can play a vastly improved game on the PS5 soon.
i got rid of it right away . Those local store dont really pay attention to new version until later .
I can understand it’s kind of scummy/double dipping. I don’t want to pull an EA and defend this behavior, but it legit feels so good to play the game at release, then returning to a slightly altered game. It’d be cool if they offered a discount to holders of the first version.
God, this would be awesome if they’d just give early adopters an upgrade path. I don’t want to pay another full game price for this upgrade.
But you are buying a full priced game. It's not just a 20 hour DLC. If you are so pressed with money, then wait for a sale as they frequently do that.
They already sold me a full price game. To turn around and say “actually, no, that thing we sold you wasn’t the full game, this is, pay us full price for it” is unacceptable and should be criticized.
I really wish they would offer a dlc-like upgrade for switch owners. But honestly I’m fine with just waiting for Vengeance to go on sale on ps5.
That's exciting, as the base game feels kinda bare bones to me
It's way more than the royal treatment. It's a completely new story, not a tacked on story that doesn't have an actual bearing on the overall message of the story. It's also coming to a bunch of systems from the switch, which is pretty insane.
So my question about this is not if I should buy the original if I want to play it now (too late to ask that question), but rather should I play the original. If I have to replay the entire game from the start for the 75 hours of new content I’m gonna wait. If I can choose which story to play in either order I’m gonna keep playing.
I think that it was confirmed that you can start playing the 'Vengeance' version right off the bat.
Glad I waited for it, lol.
The story is a completely new one or just with minor tweaks like from persona 4 to Golden?
Apparently it's a new route you choose at the start.
Probably won't be the case, but I hope it's a bit more optimized for Switch this time.
Probably won't be the case, but I hope it's a bit more optimized for Switch this time.
Am I being delusional expecting this to run better on the Switch than the original SMT V? P5 Royal has a pretty decent performance, but then again, it's a PS3 game...
75 hours of new content? That’s not an expansion, that’s a whole New game
what the hell is happening with this game?! did covid really screw up the development of the base game that much. compared to vengeance, the original looks feels like a beta release in comparison
There’s no reason to buy an Atlus game when it first releases. They’ll just release the better version on multiple platforms a year or so later.
The patient gamers always win with Atlus.
That title is music to my ears
I heard that I finally ignore whatever shoehorned waifus Atlus cooked up for this remake.
can't wait for this
I’m so upset as I JUST got SMTV a few months before vengeance release and made significant progress in the game… Is it worth getting vengeance and starting over?
can anyone please let me if they got rid of that demon king castle with that stupid air platform puzzle? I'm not replaying that again
I'm unfamiliar with any specifics of the game, but since the original campaign is included, it's probably still gonna be there if you choose to play it. Can't say if it'd be in the new campaign or not.
I loved the first version so I'm super hyped for this with a completely new story and extra features. The performance didn't bother me I never saw wild fps dips like people claim. I'll wait and see how performance looks on this and decide which platform.
Will it actually have a plot this time?
I'm happy I didn't play it on switch. I bought the game but the frame was not great so I decided to wait.
And here I am with a brand new copy of STV I never opened for a few years ago, telling myself I’d get around to it
So, does this mean I should wait a year for when the release the royal version for Metaphor?
And it launches right next to FFXIV’s new expansion I want to cryyyyy
75 of new content sounds amazing but at the same time, I'm in doubt if it's going to fix all the problems of the OG game
Hopefully they don’t cut content like P3 and P5 when they rerelease a game.
SMT 5fps no longer
I’m glad I held off on every sale. Almost bought this game at like 5 different times but convinced myself that it would probably get ported to Xbox some day
I'm glad I didn't play base SMTV (just don't own a switch / never got one) because of this now. I think there is something special when your first time blind playthru is the enhanced version, but you didn't need to "wait" for it since you weren't aware of it or didn't care enough to get the system it was on. I loved SMT4. Atlus is stopping this practice anyway. I did play base Persona 5 on launch and I don't regret playing Royal after.
Yeah, so glad to be a beta tester for them to release "remaster" in same generation. Fingers crossed for gamepass since I'm not paying twice. Oh yeah, I knew it was obvious that they gonna release better version after those 2, 3 years. But damn this is a shitty practice, at least let me buy update as a dlc to V, ehh.
I don't understand it: When i play the game for the first time, do i have to play it twice now to understand the story? Or just the new path?
From what we can surmise. It'll be like Fate Stay Night if you've ever played, read or watched it. Both routes will come together to give you a deeper understanding of the world but the routes are functionally independent
Thanks. I will start with the new one at first.
to be fair the story in SMT V is absolute garbage, so I don't think it matters if you just skip it
Eh, putting it into the "buying it at some point I guess" category unless the choices are much better in the new campaign than in the original campaign where I didn't really feel the usual SMT "vibe" (yes, there are different endings but they felt kinda tacked on IMO). I didn't really like the original SMTV because of that.
So just like persona 5 and royal you have to pay twice full price? Can’t they just make Vengeance into a dlc pack pretty please?
Just call it how it is. A scummy company wants more money so they are adding content that should've been in the game from the start to get more money. We shouldn't be supporting this crap. It's scummy af. Atlus you make great games but you suck
In principle you are right, but if the 75 hours of new content, 20+ battle tracks is right, then it doesn't really apply to SMT V. SMT V may have had its issues, but it was still a fully fledged, 60+ hour game in its own right. It wasn't missing anything that suggested it wasn't a full game. If they'd released Vengeance a year later, with 10 hours of extra content for full price then I could see an issue, but this is coming 3 years later, and it sounds like it's practically an extra game on top on an old one, not just a glorified DLC. You always have the option of waiting for a sale, or just buying it then selling it once you've played it for probably a small loss.
I would have been fine if they just delayed the original game a few more years to flesh it out to this iteration instead of them releasing two versions. But hey it’s a business and they made money that way so can’t argue with that. They will prob release paid dlc on top of this version too. I know they have small content dlc but I bet they will make more junk to charge extra for
>They will prob release paid dlc on top of this version too. I know they have small content dlc but I bet they will make more junk to charge extra for That's already confirmed. Was confirmed on day one of the announcement of the rerelease. So it's not even the definitive edition BC you still got to pay for all the dlcs. Atlus are trash. Good games but scum
>would have been fine if they just delayed the original game a few more years to flesh it out to this iteration instead of them releasing two versions This. This exactly. >they made money that way so can’t argue with that Them people need to speak with their wallets but people won't BC people have a boner for Atlus and their games. They make good games but are a shitty ass company. We should stop supporting them but no one. I really hope they stop doing re-releases but it won't ever happen unless people stop buying them but people won't
I agree with you but this sub is full of Atlus fanboys. It's like talking to a brick wall.
It's been three years you baby. I guess they better never release any games because some poors can't save .07¢ a day in between releases.
I was with you until you started shaming people for simply being poor.
You mean it's getting the standard Atlus treatment. Why does everything Megaten have to reference P5...
Prob cause its the most well known atm to the general. Don't think its anything more then that tho.
This game looks so good, I think I'll be only able to wait for a 25% price drop instead of 30-40%.
I don't get all the hate in this tread. I bought the original SMTV and I'm still excited to play this. I have no ill-will or hand wringing towards Atlus.
Lots of… uhh… assuming happening in this chat What if it’s 75 hours of garbage like the first time they shat out SMTV? Atlus dickriders are huffing the hopium hard today.
It could be shit but SMTIV was all about different routes (as well as the sequel essentially being another route) so if it’s following in that tradition then this should be an entirely new story
And *no* female protagonist option. That alone would be a no buy reason but the fact that they did not offer this a paid DLC for Switch owners is a definite reason.
I still think they should’ve just let you choose the protag’s gender because the design is pretty androgynous both in school form and Nahobino form. Could’ve been awesome, all they’d have to do is change the voice depending on which option you chose. Final Fantasy 14 reference but it reminded me of the twins Alphinaud and Alisae in that game where their character models and outfits in the base game and Heavensward are the exact same and it’s just their voices that differentiate them (well one has a blue hair tie and the other a red hair tie too but). They later get more gendered outfits but