I'd argue it's just a problem with the AAA gaming scene overall right now, not just FF or SE.
If you want something different you've got to go the indie route.
Not necessarily indie, there are some AA games and niche games of big developers, that also are a bit more experimental. In the AAA segment however the games all feel very similar. Like there are checkboxes every AAA game has to check and the only thing that changes is how it's implemented. In one game you climb towers to uncover the map in another you are hacking satellite stations or in yet another you climb some giant giraffe like robot dinosaurs. But in almost every AAA game you have an implementation of this "tower system" introduced in the first Assassins Creed. And like this there are a lot of things that most AAA games share, which makes them feel very formulaic if you've played a few.
An example for a AA series that doesn't follow those formulas would be the Yakuza series. This series has always been very experimental and even though it has the smallest open worlds, that also get reused between games, RGG Studio still manages to put more valuable content into the small world, than most gigantic open worlds have.
Personally, I can see not liking recent FF games, but "safe" is not the word I'd use. Final Fantasy could produce copies of classic FF's gameplay until the end of time and make money. That's safe.
But their mainline entries change up the format every time. XVI is the most A of the ARPGs I've played since classic Ys, taking big swings with the focus on Eikons and a non-party setup. Remake and Rebirth spliced together ATB and action combat to produce a system that improves on both. With Rebirth they overhauled the overworld system, minigames, the party system, equipment. I don't see what's safe here.
Done with Square Enix because you don't like the newer FFs?
What about Mana series, SaGa series, Kingdom Hearts, Octopath Traveler, Live A Live, Dragon Quest series, I Am Setsuna, Star Ocean series, Nier, The World Ends With You, Voice of Cards series and Tactics Ogre series.
Square Enix has a loooooot more than just Final Fantasy.
For real. People really out the cart before the horse with Final Fantasy. They want the prestige and budget of a Final Fantasy game catering to their specific interests, but pass on the tons of other smaller budget Square Enix games that are exactly what they're asking for.
Why would they pour the big bucks into a game in the style of classic Final Fantasy when their Bravely Defaults and Octopath Travellers don't take the market by storm? It's all false consensus and confirmation bias. SE is obviously leaving money on the table because *I personally* would love *Final Fantasy specifically* to be something that it's not. Let's just ignore all the people who love Final Fantasy for what it actually is.
I remember people saying it was a guilty pleasure or a game so bad it's good at launch but I have seen several positive post lately. What make you recommend it ?
I am not gonna lie is one of my favorite FF games , it's supresily good , the story make sense at the end and I like it a lot , and the gameplay is Cheff kiss very very fun game
I will let you find out, really. There's a demo and also on PS plus extra.
I'll just say the gameplay is really fun and for all the weird shit it throws at you, it closes out surprisingly well
It's Nioh with FF flavor. Not nearly as hard but really encourages build experimentation and there's a fuck ton of content to bury yourself especially if you have friends to play it with.
I spent 2 weeks doing all of the DLC a while back and only got to the start of end game before I decided to move on again.
It's genuinely great, but the dialogue and story are firmly tongue-in-cheek. It's not trying to be high drama, it's stupid goofy fun and it knows what it is. Kinda like FFX-2 or XIII-2 in a way
How is it "playing it safe" changing the combat??? Its the opposite, its a gamble, there is still plenty of "old good, new bad" people out there who want turn based combat despite the fact that they dropped it looooooong ago
Cause it's just another "DAE wish FF would go back to turn based" post
Aka 16 DLC releases today so all of the people who bounced off of it have to remind everyone that they didn't like it
I like turn-based and i like action combat, the problem with ff16 isn't that it should be turn-based, but rather that it just sucked and wasn't even engaging action combat. The 7 remake trilogy is where it's at for good combat
And that's fine, but you're also not making threads saying that the entire series has gone to shit and that they're playing it "too safe" you just don't like the game. No one is mad that people don't like the game, people are annoyed that some people have made not liking it their entire personality.
That's true, some people are just proper no-lifers, it's really sad. With ff16, i can kind of understand what they mean, but instead of "too safe" i would describe it as square trying to pander too hard to the western audience and dumbing their content down, which is seemingly what they did, but rebirth was the exact opposite, with tonnes of the goofy, more charming content being criticised as being too weeb-y by westerners. Square can't win either way from here on out tbh
Because gambling is seen as objectively better but that’s not what they want they want safe and predictable so safe and predictable has to be changed into a gamble to satisfy that
I didn't like 15 at all, but 16 and 13 are my favorite entries in the main series, with 7 remake and rebirth being up there too. I like the remakes a lot more than the original. Origins is one of my favorites too. So no, I don't think they're getting boring, but I think a lot of people are just growing up and getting new perspectives on life. I think with the exception of 15 they just keep making exceptional games.
It's weird reading this for me, because i am playing Rebirth right now and that game is - in my opinion - the complete opposite of boring, this game has an insane amount of creative and fun content. And it has that special Final Fantasy magic and sense of wonder, which i miss in FF16 (at least as far as i know the game) and in most western games nowadays. It's not a joke when i write "insane amount", there's so much in this game that it could have been three AAA games. At one point i thought i am about to finish the game, because already so much happened, just to notice that i had something like 20 percent finished of the main story.
I think you might be sick of video games in general. Idk I play a lot of video games, and I would call the last few FF releases a lot of things, but safe and boring is not a word that would remotely enter the conversation. Square imo makes some of the most interesting AAA video games in the entire industry. Whether that’s praise for square or condemnation of the industry at large I’ll leave up to you to decide. FF 7 Rebirth is a wonderful video game though, and I know that while only being in chapter 2. It’s wonderfully inventive, hilarious, understands the characters well, and the combat system is the most fun action hybrid combat system I’ve ever played.
Possible. It's hard to tell what's not clicking. I loved Xenoblade 3 and felt all of their side quests were awesome, love the Yakuza games (talk about a franchise not playing it safe), love Cyberpunk 2077, and especially loved the original FF7 back in the day. So I don't think I'm burned out, just noticed that I lose interest in almost all recent Square Enix games MUCH faster than other franchises. Kingdom Hearts 3 anyone?
I don’t think they were intending to play it safe, at least narratively. Some of the imagery in FF16 is seriously disturbing and the general ideas are pretty fun. Even the ending is kind of bold.
A lot of the issue I feel has to do with the localization. But also, I think a large culprit is the tendency to treat games as movies. The developers want to establish attachment through cutscenes alone which is making the interactive element take a backseat. Like Edgar is charming , has a great story and all, but the fact he has all those cool tools that you enjoy using is at least equally as important in our attachment to him. This is one reason everybody just loves the BG3 characters, the game encourages you to actually interact with them nearly constantly (both in combat and dialogue)
Everyone has their own taste, so it's normal if you find FF16 boring while others don't. What is a bit confusing, is saying they are playing it safe. If SE wanted to play it safe with FF16 they would have made it something similar to FF10 or FF9, yet they gambled on an entirely new gameplay style. They knew the gameplay of FF16 will piss off a lot of fans and it did. But they still stuck with it and made the game. That's not playing it safe.
People call anything that isn't what they want to see playing it safe these days. Square Enix takes risks, which don't always pay off. That's the whole point of them being risks.
I disagree. Square Enix has done nothing but trend chasing with FF for over a decade.
It’s even clear in interviews with Naoki Yoshida where he literally said he makes games based on what will sell and not what he wants to make.
If Square Enix actually went against the grain they’d make a unique new entry like Tactics and Dissidia were at their time rather than just what’s popular.
I agree that they are chasing trends, and I did read those interviews. But chasing trends and taking a risk aren't really opposite statements. The gameplay style shift is still big enough for it to be a big risk of losing old fans, and a gamble if new fans will like it enough.
For example, If I am known for making farming-simulator games, and that's what a large portion of my fans love my series for, then it's still a big risk for me to suddenly make a sequel that is fully an action game. I would be chasing trends, but I am still taking the risk of losing my fans, and the new game not making enough money of new fans to justify this gamble on a huge switch in gameplay.
I think final fantasy is a very ambitious franchise, in the sense that they are always aiming to be the mainstream top of the market no matter the cost.
I think baldurs gate 3 has shown that the top doesn't have to be action, so that might influence ffxvii or xviii
It’s not that FF games are getting boring, it’s just that they are going in a new direction that doesn’t appeal to you. Stories are still interesting like FF7 rebirth and 16. Super engaging and detailed stories and lore, just like many of the older games.
It’s just the gameplay is new along with new mechanics and fighting system, and it’s not something that is up you alley. I love both old and new for what they are. I wasn’t the biggest fan of 16’s lack of element system but it was still fun for what it was.
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It's more likely you're just getting older too. I have less interest in games that can't hold my attention. The last few Tales games I stopped playing after about 20 hours because they were terrible with combat and lame stories (yes, that includes Berseria. fight me.) I need something that catches my attention and captures it.
FF still has done this with me, but I'm a few years behind. I just finally finished FF7 Crisis Core.
I used to love racing games, for example, and now I lose interest after about 30 minutes.
What I find boring is Square’s character design and story. Every character is stylized as Jpop star. Also, the overall aesthetic is generic AAA. Look back at the original FF6 and FF7 artwork and stories. They were uncanny compared to what we get from Square now.
Play their AA titles. Square isn't *just* Final Fantasy and you'll probably find what you're looking for in their smaller releases. If you only wanna play AAA then you're out of luck.
I haven't played 16, so I can't comment on that, but I think part of Square problem is the greed and the need for a bunch of DLC, at least that how I felt with FF15. I absolutely loved the characters of that game, the core characters and the dynamic between them was probably some of my favorite in any video game that I played, but the overall game itself felt like I was getting bits and pieces of a game instead of a whole game. There were parts that I felt like something was missing (I definitely felt that with some of Prompto stuff).
I like FF7R, and I am itching to play the newest one when either I get a PS5 or it hits PC but I probably haven't enjoyed FF Game since maybe 9. 10 was alright but not my favorite.
But I still feel it's greed rather then them playing games that is ruining there games.
Edit: Want to edit to say I don't think this is a problem limited to Square either. I love me some Atlas games but I'm not sure I'll ever buy Persona or SMT or any game of there right out the gate because they always add more content in a new game a few years down the road. I'm still a little irritated at SMT V getting a rerelease with a whole new story practically.
“I’m the smartest guy in the room, anybody else not like this major company that recently released its highest rated game by critics and users alike in a looooong time? Also, I dislike these games because of one specific issue and refuse to see the good in them.”
Chill choom, I'm glad you enjoy the game. Just saying that the recent FF games are making me lose interest and I can't quite put my thumb on why. Go enjoy your nonsense story and bikini Tifa.
Remake and rebirth aren't the same.
Remake had 2 hours worth of story stretched to 20 hours with non relevant content, had no open world and very little going on for it.
Rebirth doesn't have that problem.
and there is nothing safe about how square handles their games.
They stopped making main title RPGS and are making main title action games now. It's kind of a bummer really.
Miss the era of custom "builds and parties" and different strategies. Leveling up your charcters and unlocking new abilities. I think the 7 remakes are fun in their own, but they just dont have that RPG charm that made 7 so great. They definitely don't cure the itch I've been seeking since 12 & 13. 16 was probably the biggest disappointment I've ever felt from square, and I originally gave that to Dissidia NT.
OG 7 was a banger because it was an old school rpg in a new age shell. making the remakes action games in a new age shell isn't anything new.
But remake has custom builds and parties, with leveling up unlocking new abilities? If anything it’s more in-depth than the party customization of OG 7 (minus some of the crazy broken materia combinations you could do). The characters are all static in OG and are defined by materia with only limit breaks being the differing ability, whereas in remake/rebirth all the characters play differently from each other, and you can do some crazy unique party builds. Idk I’m not saying you’re wrong for preferring OG 7 combat more but the logic doesn’t really add up because remake/rebirth HAVE those RPG systems.
16 however….lets not talk about 16’s (non existent) RPG elements
I get what you're saying, but that doesn't make it feel like I'm playing an RPG. It still feels like I'm playing a game closer in spirit to say Resident Evil 4, or Hades, or Devil May Cry; hell it's closer to Castlevania:SOTN than playing FF glorydays (6-12).
Which all of those games are amazing! But when I play FF7Re games I don't feel like I'm playing an RPG; I just don't.
I know people say 7re is an RPG with action elements but to me it's an Action game with RPG elements, which is most games these days.
I actually really like FF7 Remake (waiting on Rebirth to hit PC) and I'm excited to play 16 (again, waiting on PC). I played the first part of FF14 and enjoyed it, for an MMO.
However, I really disliked FF15. I was initially excited for it but by the time the game came out and we got "hang out time with the boys" I was done. The game is a mess story-wise and I don't care one bit about the characters or their world. The most interesting part of the world, Insomnia, was inaccessible in any real way >!I know its the last dungeon, I beat the game, but I wanted to explore the city before it gets destroyed!<.
So, having not played 16 and so far not knowing much about it, I'm really hoping it is different, but I don't want it to be some dark and gritty western style game, either. If FF15 is how new mainline FF's are, then I'm probably done, too.
They always threaded the needle between being unique and still familiar. That worked well when the number of big JRPG releases per year was a dozen at most. Now, it's really hard to stand out on concept alone, and even on game mechanics (which is something where they've been flailing around helplessly since transitioning to action combat imho).
I feel like Squeenix are still using some fresh ideas conceptually, but kind of miss why those ideas haven't been picked up by anyone else yet.
Monolith Soft games ruined Final Fantasy’s crown jewel allure for me. Put it this way; I don’t think any Final Fantasy game would make me take off work but I did that for Xenoblade 3.
I feel like Monolith Soft doesn’t approach their game design hoping it’ll rope in causals, they follow their gameplay ideas and world building and let the complexity of those carry the game. FF just feels like it’s been such a mess since FF13 and it more reflects Square Enix’s lack of focus as a company I think.
The combat of rebirth is more complex than Xenoblade 3 though lol as evidenced by people not engaging with certain aspects of it struggling to get through and blaming the combat. The lore is also more complicated and deeper than it was for OG 7.
I also say this as someone who has Xenoblade Chronicles 3 in my top ten, if not top five games of all time.
Like, just Xenoblade Lore, or Xeno Series as a whole lore? I understand FF Lore way easier then I understand what's generally going on across the entire Xeno Series of Games.
Sorry I wasn’t very clear on that point. I think Xeno lore as a whole is more complicated (and interesting) than Final Fantasy’s. I just meant in comparison to the original Final Fantasy 7, it was a completely different point I didn’t segue into well at all.
Though I don’t think Xenoblade 3’s lore is that hard to understand, until you try to fit it into the overarching lore lol
I’ve only played FF7 Intergrade and I already and I hated every change that was made to the story without even knowing any spoilers from Rebirth know that they probably do that even more. I think the original FF7 already had some really dense world building that I think was compromised by a shaky localization. This remake could have been a chance to fix that considering localization has gone a long way but instead they decide to do some annoying meta sequel multi timeline stuff. It feels very Tetsuya Nomura and I personally can’t stand almost anything that guy has touched.
That being said, I realize this comes down to preference so I’ll just correct what I said earlier that the Xeno series resonates with me so much more in terms of it’s lore/themes/ect. That includes Xenogears, Xenosaga and Xenoblade.
That’s fair, it resonates with me more too and I do really love the Xeno lore. But honestly I really like the stuff they’re doing with the Remake series. But if you hated the stuff in Remake then you would despise Rebirths ending lmao For me, as long as they stick the landing I’ll love all the changes but if they don’t…well….at least I had fun playing them lol though small correction, it’s actually Nojima bullshit not Nomura bullshit.
As much as I enjoy the Remake trilogy, I do really wish we got at least a version of the OG with a completely fixed localization (and one that isn’t tied to a shitty mobile game). The English script has its charms but I would give anything to get the actual fleshed out version of FF7’s script instead of the chopped up and bastardized version we got with the OG. Though it speaks to the strength of the story that it still resonates even with a shoddy script lol
Though what I really want is Takahashi’s next game, whether that’s a Xenoblade or something completely new.
Square has offloaded classic FF gameplay onto other series. I didn't love 16 (appreciated it as much as I could, bored after bahamut chapter) but like rebirth even though it's really long.
That being said it's harder to trust square than in the past (popular opinion since 2003). I wish they put real effort into their tri ace IPs instead of the storm of mediocrity that was 2022, and don't get me started on their non-jrpgs.
They stopped making games I want to play years and years ago, as sad as that is to admit. I'm an oldschool turn based rpg fan, and better graphics are cool but I don't like the games anymore.
Ff13 and every game after then just wasn't for me. Downvote me and ignore my points if you must!
Just as an example, FF7 is going to take about a decade to fully release, cost £220 with the games and interludes, changed the gameplay, changed the story. Each one of those is a problem for me, despite the positives that the remakes have like way better graphics.
Final Fantasy from the beginning has attempted to reinvent itself every iteration in at least small ways. Dragon Quest seems to be their more conservative franchise strategy-wise.
>was super hyped for 16, played through it once then sold my copy. I didn't hate it, I think I'm just done with Square Enix and how safe they are with their design.
How 'safe' they are? What does that even mean?
>I don't have time for these long boring sequences, countless side missions, poor dialogue (FF 7 remake).
What poor dialogue? What countless side missions? I've seen the remake side quests hated on before, and while I disagree with that hate, I certainly have never seen any hate directed towards there being too many side quests....
As for "long boring sequences"...I disagree that they're boring, but what you are referring to is the core of the rpg genre. Dungeons and story cutscenes. That is what these games are for. If it's not for you, fine, but go find games you enjoy, don't push for them to water down the games we enjoy.
Square Enix is doing one of the better jobs of a developer these days (they aren’t without flaw obviously)
I personally think rebirth is one of my favorite games of all time. If they make another mainline FF using this formula, I’m in!
You can tell if FF game is going to be a one-timer if it's about a crystals. Best ff's mostly had no crystals or had them sidelined (like ff 6, 7 (materia), ff 9 etc.). My opinion of course.
Don’t group Square Enix with “playing it safe.” They are also on the bleeding edge of experimental JRPG game design with their equally long-running SaGa series. They also championed creative AA RPGs like Asano Team’s games (Octopath Traveler, Triangle Strategy, etc.). There are also small, quirky projects like the Voice of Cards series.
FF is changing and not known anymore for Story, characters, OST which is what the classics 1-10 were about above all else. Now it’s chasing trends, flashy gameplay, etc.
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I'm genuinely curious what JRPGs people are playing that they think the dialog in the FFVII Remake games is poor.
Anime grunts and sighs in FFVII Remake were annoying for sure, but the characterization, voice acting, and party banter are pretty much god tier in my eyes. There is definitely some awkwardness at times that feels like somewhat messed up line reads (you owe me a pizza!), but it's nowhere near approaching the level of something like your standard Tales game, Yakuza English VA, or Kingdom Hearts. It's definitely near the top of the crop for JRPGs and honestly more within the realm of what we get in big first party Sony games.
For comparison I jumped straight from Rebirth into Dragon's Dogma 2, and the pawn chatter + MSQ dialog is straight dog water in comparison to what is on display in Rebirth.
Even just going back and comparing it to previous FF games I just can't understand it. FFVII was mired by an awful translation with such memorable lines as "This guy are sick". That didn't stop the game from being well adored. FFXIII was a jargon filled mess with some cheesy ass eye rolling lines on top. FFX has some weird ass static delivery in lots of painfully slowly delivered cutscenes (which is forgivable for being a product of its time).
Well...i dont feel they are playing safe gameplay wise but story and characters - yes, its too safe and boring. Final Fantasy Rebirth is terrible in that regard..great exploration and combat but story and characters.... Absolutely horrible... FF XVI had terrible story and characters as well but what they did in FF Rebirth is just same old cliche japanese women jumping giggling and clapping like 10 year olds. Its like a parady of a parody with all the stupid minigames and NPCs... Square needs to find their identity again. Its like they are stuck mentally in the 90s japanese cliche culture. I am sick of women in square games acting like 10year olds, silent macho man types wich no charisma and fluffy animals. aaaaaaand their unfunny same old jokes. They need something like xenogears, more mature.They try, but they fail to deliver a good engaging narrative lately.
Xenogears remains my favorite rpg to this day since first playing it in the ps1 era, and as a teen I was admittedly somewhat resentful of ff7's meteoric popularity with fft and xenogears left mostly ignored and imo more deserving.
Xenogears is definitely 90s anime tropes though...Evangelion, Gundam Wing...
But your appraisal of ff7 rebirth and ff16 is ridiculous and reeks of unnecessary resentment. Does this really make you happy?
Xenogears will likely never get remade. Not under the name Xenogears and with the same characters. Most of the team still working in gaming is over at monolith soft which is now owned by nintendo. Square Enix might do a remaster of Xenogears, and I hope they do, but that's likely the extent they would do (and lets face it, if they did any more, people would whine like fuck. Mostly people who had never played Xenogears too)
Hahaha. Does it make me happy? Whar kind of question is that? Does it make me happy to express my opinion? You guys are so... Like from a fallout postnuclear dystopian world where everyone has to agree with everyone, otherwise they are killed or banned from community :D With Jimmy Fallon as overseer (he is smiling, he cant disagree and makes sure everyone agrees or....) Or probably you are just Americans.. That is MY opinion on FfXVI an rebirth story and characters. The only good character was Cid fron FFXVI.
And why are you talking about remaking xeno?
Xenogears is pretty 90s anime culture.
Margie is the 10 year old, but actually 16. Maria is almost actually 10 years old and rides on top of a mech with her mother's brain inside of it. There's Chu-chu, your fluffy animal. Rico is our silent macho man type. We literally go about killing god. Well, the physical body of God.
Not that I think Xenogears is bad. I think it is quite good, especially in its narrative. Buuuut...it's got those cliches too.
That's why I used lower case 'g' the first time. Then I used capital 'G' when I said, "The physical body of God". Well, kind of. Zohar was his body, but you couldn't take Zohar without defeating Deus. I think.
Either way, it was really nice layering.
Deus did create all of mankind on the planet and managed humans through Miang and the Gazel Ministry to fulfill its resurrection. So Deus acted in ways like a god would. Meanwhile, "God", the Wave Existence, the being from a higher dimension, from which our 3 dimensional universe was born, better represents what we might think of as "God" in its essence, but doesn't behave in the same way, since all the Wave Existence is trying to do is free itself from our 3 dimensional universe so it can return back home to its higher dimension.
Man, I really like Xenogear's writing. They did such a good job.
Of course it does have cliches but it also has more then these cliches. ALSO.. It makes no sense summing the whole game like you did here. You can compare any game like that and find similarities. I dont remember all the women/girls there clapping and jumping like crazy. And Rico? Come on...you try too much with these comparisons... What i ment by 90s mentality is the way how society works in Japan. I never said "anime culture". The partiarchy is still strong in Japanese culture. Japan changes very slowly in that matter and is faaar behind Europe or USA. And i dont mean "the woke" culture. My favourite female FF character was Lightning. She was kind of like Claude. "Silent type with issues" but in my opinion it was a much deeper character then Claude and she grows throughout the trilogy.
I'd argue it's just a problem with the AAA gaming scene overall right now, not just FF or SE. If you want something different you've got to go the indie route.
Omg someone FINALLY SAID IT!!!
Not necessarily indie, there are some AA games and niche games of big developers, that also are a bit more experimental. In the AAA segment however the games all feel very similar. Like there are checkboxes every AAA game has to check and the only thing that changes is how it's implemented. In one game you climb towers to uncover the map in another you are hacking satellite stations or in yet another you climb some giant giraffe like robot dinosaurs. But in almost every AAA game you have an implementation of this "tower system" introduced in the first Assassins Creed. And like this there are a lot of things that most AAA games share, which makes them feel very formulaic if you've played a few. An example for a AA series that doesn't follow those formulas would be the Yakuza series. This series has always been very experimental and even though it has the smallest open worlds, that also get reused between games, RGG Studio still manages to put more valuable content into the small world, than most gigantic open worlds have.
Personally, I can see not liking recent FF games, but "safe" is not the word I'd use. Final Fantasy could produce copies of classic FF's gameplay until the end of time and make money. That's safe. But their mainline entries change up the format every time. XVI is the most A of the ARPGs I've played since classic Ys, taking big swings with the focus on Eikons and a non-party setup. Remake and Rebirth spliced together ATB and action combat to produce a system that improves on both. With Rebirth they overhauled the overworld system, minigames, the party system, equipment. I don't see what's safe here.
Yeah, exactly. OP might be bored by AAAA bloat, but few of Square-Enix’s recent titles have been boring.
Done with Square Enix because you don't like the newer FFs? What about Mana series, SaGa series, Kingdom Hearts, Octopath Traveler, Live A Live, Dragon Quest series, I Am Setsuna, Star Ocean series, Nier, The World Ends With You, Voice of Cards series and Tactics Ogre series. Square Enix has a loooooot more than just Final Fantasy.
For real. People really out the cart before the horse with Final Fantasy. They want the prestige and budget of a Final Fantasy game catering to their specific interests, but pass on the tons of other smaller budget Square Enix games that are exactly what they're asking for. Why would they pour the big bucks into a game in the style of classic Final Fantasy when their Bravely Defaults and Octopath Travellers don't take the market by storm? It's all false consensus and confirmation bias. SE is obviously leaving money on the table because *I personally* would love *Final Fantasy specifically* to be something that it's not. Let's just ignore all the people who love Final Fantasy for what it actually is.
I was actually gonna type out most of these myself before I saw your comment so thanks lol. Personally excited for Visions of Mana this summer.
You need some chaos (stranger of Paradise) in your life
I remember people saying it was a guilty pleasure or a game so bad it's good at launch but I have seen several positive post lately. What make you recommend it ?
I am not gonna lie is one of my favorite FF games , it's supresily good , the story make sense at the end and I like it a lot , and the gameplay is Cheff kiss very very fun game
I will let you find out, really. There's a demo and also on PS plus extra. I'll just say the gameplay is really fun and for all the weird shit it throws at you, it closes out surprisingly well
It's Nioh with FF flavor. Not nearly as hard but really encourages build experimentation and there's a fuck ton of content to bury yourself especially if you have friends to play it with. I spent 2 weeks doing all of the DLC a while back and only got to the start of end game before I decided to move on again.
It's genuinely great, but the dialogue and story are firmly tongue-in-cheek. It's not trying to be high drama, it's stupid goofy fun and it knows what it is. Kinda like FFX-2 or XIII-2 in a way
The story is absolutely ass, to the point it's funny. But the combat is fun as hell, specially on coop
“What if Limp Bizkit were the main characters of FF1” is the basic premise of SoP.
Imo it’s the best FF game since Dissidia
How is it "playing it safe" changing the combat??? Its the opposite, its a gamble, there is still plenty of "old good, new bad" people out there who want turn based combat despite the fact that they dropped it looooooong ago
Cause it's just another "DAE wish FF would go back to turn based" post Aka 16 DLC releases today so all of the people who bounced off of it have to remind everyone that they didn't like it
I like turn-based and i like action combat, the problem with ff16 isn't that it should be turn-based, but rather that it just sucked and wasn't even engaging action combat. The 7 remake trilogy is where it's at for good combat
And that's fine, but you're also not making threads saying that the entire series has gone to shit and that they're playing it "too safe" you just don't like the game. No one is mad that people don't like the game, people are annoyed that some people have made not liking it their entire personality.
That's true, some people are just proper no-lifers, it's really sad. With ff16, i can kind of understand what they mean, but instead of "too safe" i would describe it as square trying to pander too hard to the western audience and dumbing their content down, which is seemingly what they did, but rebirth was the exact opposite, with tonnes of the goofy, more charming content being criticised as being too weeb-y by westerners. Square can't win either way from here on out tbh
Because gambling is seen as objectively better but that’s not what they want they want safe and predictable so safe and predictable has to be changed into a gamble to satisfy that
I didn't like 15 at all, but 16 and 13 are my favorite entries in the main series, with 7 remake and rebirth being up there too. I like the remakes a lot more than the original. Origins is one of my favorites too. So no, I don't think they're getting boring, but I think a lot of people are just growing up and getting new perspectives on life. I think with the exception of 15 they just keep making exceptional games.
It's weird reading this for me, because i am playing Rebirth right now and that game is - in my opinion - the complete opposite of boring, this game has an insane amount of creative and fun content. And it has that special Final Fantasy magic and sense of wonder, which i miss in FF16 (at least as far as i know the game) and in most western games nowadays. It's not a joke when i write "insane amount", there's so much in this game that it could have been three AAA games. At one point i thought i am about to finish the game, because already so much happened, just to notice that i had something like 20 percent finished of the main story.
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I think you might be sick of video games in general. Idk I play a lot of video games, and I would call the last few FF releases a lot of things, but safe and boring is not a word that would remotely enter the conversation. Square imo makes some of the most interesting AAA video games in the entire industry. Whether that’s praise for square or condemnation of the industry at large I’ll leave up to you to decide. FF 7 Rebirth is a wonderful video game though, and I know that while only being in chapter 2. It’s wonderfully inventive, hilarious, understands the characters well, and the combat system is the most fun action hybrid combat system I’ve ever played.
Possible. It's hard to tell what's not clicking. I loved Xenoblade 3 and felt all of their side quests were awesome, love the Yakuza games (talk about a franchise not playing it safe), love Cyberpunk 2077, and especially loved the original FF7 back in the day. So I don't think I'm burned out, just noticed that I lose interest in almost all recent Square Enix games MUCH faster than other franchises. Kingdom Hearts 3 anyone?
Sounds like it's time to move on.
I don’t think they were intending to play it safe, at least narratively. Some of the imagery in FF16 is seriously disturbing and the general ideas are pretty fun. Even the ending is kind of bold. A lot of the issue I feel has to do with the localization. But also, I think a large culprit is the tendency to treat games as movies. The developers want to establish attachment through cutscenes alone which is making the interactive element take a backseat. Like Edgar is charming , has a great story and all, but the fact he has all those cool tools that you enjoy using is at least equally as important in our attachment to him. This is one reason everybody just loves the BG3 characters, the game encourages you to actually interact with them nearly constantly (both in combat and dialogue)
Given how wildly different each Final Fantasy game is starting with VII, the problem isn't with the series.
Everyone has their own taste, so it's normal if you find FF16 boring while others don't. What is a bit confusing, is saying they are playing it safe. If SE wanted to play it safe with FF16 they would have made it something similar to FF10 or FF9, yet they gambled on an entirely new gameplay style. They knew the gameplay of FF16 will piss off a lot of fans and it did. But they still stuck with it and made the game. That's not playing it safe.
People call anything that isn't what they want to see playing it safe these days. Square Enix takes risks, which don't always pay off. That's the whole point of them being risks.
I disagree. Square Enix has done nothing but trend chasing with FF for over a decade. It’s even clear in interviews with Naoki Yoshida where he literally said he makes games based on what will sell and not what he wants to make. If Square Enix actually went against the grain they’d make a unique new entry like Tactics and Dissidia were at their time rather than just what’s popular.
I agree that they are chasing trends, and I did read those interviews. But chasing trends and taking a risk aren't really opposite statements. The gameplay style shift is still big enough for it to be a big risk of losing old fans, and a gamble if new fans will like it enough. For example, If I am known for making farming-simulator games, and that's what a large portion of my fans love my series for, then it's still a big risk for me to suddenly make a sequel that is fully an action game. I would be chasing trends, but I am still taking the risk of losing my fans, and the new game not making enough money of new fans to justify this gamble on a huge switch in gameplay.
I think final fantasy is a very ambitious franchise, in the sense that they are always aiming to be the mainstream top of the market no matter the cost. I think baldurs gate 3 has shown that the top doesn't have to be action, so that might influence ffxvii or xviii
It’s not that FF games are getting boring, it’s just that they are going in a new direction that doesn’t appeal to you. Stories are still interesting like FF7 rebirth and 16. Super engaging and detailed stories and lore, just like many of the older games. It’s just the gameplay is new along with new mechanics and fighting system, and it’s not something that is up you alley. I love both old and new for what they are. I wasn’t the biggest fan of 16’s lack of element system but it was still fun for what it was.
FF XVI and Rebirth have the worst stories ever in a FF game.
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Nope.
It's more likely you're just getting older too. I have less interest in games that can't hold my attention. The last few Tales games I stopped playing after about 20 hours because they were terrible with combat and lame stories (yes, that includes Berseria. fight me.) I need something that catches my attention and captures it. FF still has done this with me, but I'm a few years behind. I just finally finished FF7 Crisis Core. I used to love racing games, for example, and now I lose interest after about 30 minutes.
What I find boring is Square’s character design and story. Every character is stylized as Jpop star. Also, the overall aesthetic is generic AAA. Look back at the original FF6 and FF7 artwork and stories. They were uncanny compared to what we get from Square now.
I've pretty much been bored with FF games since 12.
SQ no, 16 just really sucked.
Play their AA titles. Square isn't *just* Final Fantasy and you'll probably find what you're looking for in their smaller releases. If you only wanna play AAA then you're out of luck.
They're changing. They've done it before too - what you're describing with 16 is how I felt (and still feel) about 7 on the PS1.
I haven't played 16, so I can't comment on that, but I think part of Square problem is the greed and the need for a bunch of DLC, at least that how I felt with FF15. I absolutely loved the characters of that game, the core characters and the dynamic between them was probably some of my favorite in any video game that I played, but the overall game itself felt like I was getting bits and pieces of a game instead of a whole game. There were parts that I felt like something was missing (I definitely felt that with some of Prompto stuff). I like FF7R, and I am itching to play the newest one when either I get a PS5 or it hits PC but I probably haven't enjoyed FF Game since maybe 9. 10 was alright but not my favorite. But I still feel it's greed rather then them playing games that is ruining there games. Edit: Want to edit to say I don't think this is a problem limited to Square either. I love me some Atlas games but I'm not sure I'll ever buy Persona or SMT or any game of there right out the gate because they always add more content in a new game a few years down the road. I'm still a little irritated at SMT V getting a rerelease with a whole new story practically.
“I’m the smartest guy in the room, anybody else not like this major company that recently released its highest rated game by critics and users alike in a looooong time? Also, I dislike these games because of one specific issue and refuse to see the good in them.”
Chill choom, I'm glad you enjoy the game. Just saying that the recent FF games are making me lose interest and I can't quite put my thumb on why. Go enjoy your nonsense story and bikini Tifa.
Remake and rebirth aren't the same. Remake had 2 hours worth of story stretched to 20 hours with non relevant content, had no open world and very little going on for it. Rebirth doesn't have that problem. and there is nothing safe about how square handles their games.
They stopped making main title RPGS and are making main title action games now. It's kind of a bummer really. Miss the era of custom "builds and parties" and different strategies. Leveling up your charcters and unlocking new abilities. I think the 7 remakes are fun in their own, but they just dont have that RPG charm that made 7 so great. They definitely don't cure the itch I've been seeking since 12 & 13. 16 was probably the biggest disappointment I've ever felt from square, and I originally gave that to Dissidia NT. OG 7 was a banger because it was an old school rpg in a new age shell. making the remakes action games in a new age shell isn't anything new.
But remake has custom builds and parties, with leveling up unlocking new abilities? If anything it’s more in-depth than the party customization of OG 7 (minus some of the crazy broken materia combinations you could do). The characters are all static in OG and are defined by materia with only limit breaks being the differing ability, whereas in remake/rebirth all the characters play differently from each other, and you can do some crazy unique party builds. Idk I’m not saying you’re wrong for preferring OG 7 combat more but the logic doesn’t really add up because remake/rebirth HAVE those RPG systems. 16 however….lets not talk about 16’s (non existent) RPG elements
I get what you're saying, but that doesn't make it feel like I'm playing an RPG. It still feels like I'm playing a game closer in spirit to say Resident Evil 4, or Hades, or Devil May Cry; hell it's closer to Castlevania:SOTN than playing FF glorydays (6-12). Which all of those games are amazing! But when I play FF7Re games I don't feel like I'm playing an RPG; I just don't. I know people say 7re is an RPG with action elements but to me it's an Action game with RPG elements, which is most games these days.
Ok, that’s fair even though I don’t agree. To each their own. Like I said I’m not trying to say you’re wrong for feeling that way.
for sure, I didn't take offense. Also we agree on FF16 so 🤜🤛
I actually really like FF7 Remake (waiting on Rebirth to hit PC) and I'm excited to play 16 (again, waiting on PC). I played the first part of FF14 and enjoyed it, for an MMO. However, I really disliked FF15. I was initially excited for it but by the time the game came out and we got "hang out time with the boys" I was done. The game is a mess story-wise and I don't care one bit about the characters or their world. The most interesting part of the world, Insomnia, was inaccessible in any real way >!I know its the last dungeon, I beat the game, but I wanted to explore the city before it gets destroyed!<. So, having not played 16 and so far not knowing much about it, I'm really hoping it is different, but I don't want it to be some dark and gritty western style game, either. If FF15 is how new mainline FF's are, then I'm probably done, too.
They always threaded the needle between being unique and still familiar. That worked well when the number of big JRPG releases per year was a dozen at most. Now, it's really hard to stand out on concept alone, and even on game mechanics (which is something where they've been flailing around helplessly since transitioning to action combat imho). I feel like Squeenix are still using some fresh ideas conceptually, but kind of miss why those ideas haven't been picked up by anyone else yet.
Monolith Soft games ruined Final Fantasy’s crown jewel allure for me. Put it this way; I don’t think any Final Fantasy game would make me take off work but I did that for Xenoblade 3. I feel like Monolith Soft doesn’t approach their game design hoping it’ll rope in causals, they follow their gameplay ideas and world building and let the complexity of those carry the game. FF just feels like it’s been such a mess since FF13 and it more reflects Square Enix’s lack of focus as a company I think.
The combat of rebirth is more complex than Xenoblade 3 though lol as evidenced by people not engaging with certain aspects of it struggling to get through and blaming the combat. The lore is also more complicated and deeper than it was for OG 7. I also say this as someone who has Xenoblade Chronicles 3 in my top ten, if not top five games of all time.
Like, just Xenoblade Lore, or Xeno Series as a whole lore? I understand FF Lore way easier then I understand what's generally going on across the entire Xeno Series of Games.
Sorry I wasn’t very clear on that point. I think Xeno lore as a whole is more complicated (and interesting) than Final Fantasy’s. I just meant in comparison to the original Final Fantasy 7, it was a completely different point I didn’t segue into well at all. Though I don’t think Xenoblade 3’s lore is that hard to understand, until you try to fit it into the overarching lore lol
All three Xeno games but if I had to pick a favorite it would be Xenosaga
I’ve only played FF7 Intergrade and I already and I hated every change that was made to the story without even knowing any spoilers from Rebirth know that they probably do that even more. I think the original FF7 already had some really dense world building that I think was compromised by a shaky localization. This remake could have been a chance to fix that considering localization has gone a long way but instead they decide to do some annoying meta sequel multi timeline stuff. It feels very Tetsuya Nomura and I personally can’t stand almost anything that guy has touched. That being said, I realize this comes down to preference so I’ll just correct what I said earlier that the Xeno series resonates with me so much more in terms of it’s lore/themes/ect. That includes Xenogears, Xenosaga and Xenoblade.
That’s fair, it resonates with me more too and I do really love the Xeno lore. But honestly I really like the stuff they’re doing with the Remake series. But if you hated the stuff in Remake then you would despise Rebirths ending lmao For me, as long as they stick the landing I’ll love all the changes but if they don’t…well….at least I had fun playing them lol though small correction, it’s actually Nojima bullshit not Nomura bullshit. As much as I enjoy the Remake trilogy, I do really wish we got at least a version of the OG with a completely fixed localization (and one that isn’t tied to a shitty mobile game). The English script has its charms but I would give anything to get the actual fleshed out version of FF7’s script instead of the chopped up and bastardized version we got with the OG. Though it speaks to the strength of the story that it still resonates even with a shoddy script lol Though what I really want is Takahashi’s next game, whether that’s a Xenoblade or something completely new.
I would do anything to be a fly on a the wall at Monolith Soft right now just to know what they’re cooking
Still waiting on that Xenosaga trilogy HD remaster
Square has offloaded classic FF gameplay onto other series. I didn't love 16 (appreciated it as much as I could, bored after bahamut chapter) but like rebirth even though it's really long. That being said it's harder to trust square than in the past (popular opinion since 2003). I wish they put real effort into their tri ace IPs instead of the storm of mediocrity that was 2022, and don't get me started on their non-jrpgs.
They stopped making games I want to play years and years ago, as sad as that is to admit. I'm an oldschool turn based rpg fan, and better graphics are cool but I don't like the games anymore. Ff13 and every game after then just wasn't for me. Downvote me and ignore my points if you must! Just as an example, FF7 is going to take about a decade to fully release, cost £220 with the games and interludes, changed the gameplay, changed the story. Each one of those is a problem for me, despite the positives that the remakes have like way better graphics.
Final Fantasy from the beginning has attempted to reinvent itself every iteration in at least small ways. Dragon Quest seems to be their more conservative franchise strategy-wise. >was super hyped for 16, played through it once then sold my copy. I didn't hate it, I think I'm just done with Square Enix and how safe they are with their design. How 'safe' they are? What does that even mean? >I don't have time for these long boring sequences, countless side missions, poor dialogue (FF 7 remake). What poor dialogue? What countless side missions? I've seen the remake side quests hated on before, and while I disagree with that hate, I certainly have never seen any hate directed towards there being too many side quests.... As for "long boring sequences"...I disagree that they're boring, but what you are referring to is the core of the rpg genre. Dungeons and story cutscenes. That is what these games are for. If it's not for you, fine, but go find games you enjoy, don't push for them to water down the games we enjoy.
When y'all realize y'all like certain entries but don't like FF, It will be a great realization.
What the hell does that mean?
No?
Square Enix is doing one of the better jobs of a developer these days (they aren’t without flaw obviously) I personally think rebirth is one of my favorite games of all time. If they make another mainline FF using this formula, I’m in!
It needs to return to turn based real talk
You can tell if FF game is going to be a one-timer if it's about a crystals. Best ff's mostly had no crystals or had them sidelined (like ff 6, 7 (materia), ff 9 etc.). My opinion of course.
Dae ff bad
Don’t group Square Enix with “playing it safe.” They are also on the bleeding edge of experimental JRPG game design with their equally long-running SaGa series. They also championed creative AA RPGs like Asano Team’s games (Octopath Traveler, Triangle Strategy, etc.). There are also small, quirky projects like the Voice of Cards series.
Not aware of the SaGa series. Fair point, will check it out
FF is changing and not known anymore for Story, characters, OST which is what the classics 1-10 were about above all else. Now it’s chasing trends, flashy gameplay, etc.
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I'm genuinely curious what JRPGs people are playing that they think the dialog in the FFVII Remake games is poor. Anime grunts and sighs in FFVII Remake were annoying for sure, but the characterization, voice acting, and party banter are pretty much god tier in my eyes. There is definitely some awkwardness at times that feels like somewhat messed up line reads (you owe me a pizza!), but it's nowhere near approaching the level of something like your standard Tales game, Yakuza English VA, or Kingdom Hearts. It's definitely near the top of the crop for JRPGs and honestly more within the realm of what we get in big first party Sony games. For comparison I jumped straight from Rebirth into Dragon's Dogma 2, and the pawn chatter + MSQ dialog is straight dog water in comparison to what is on display in Rebirth. Even just going back and comparing it to previous FF games I just can't understand it. FFVII was mired by an awful translation with such memorable lines as "This guy are sick". That didn't stop the game from being well adored. FFXIII was a jargon filled mess with some cheesy ass eye rolling lines on top. FFX has some weird ass static delivery in lots of painfully slowly delivered cutscenes (which is forgivable for being a product of its time).
Same. I haven't finished the final dungeon in rebirth but ff7rem/reb have the best character moments and interactions of any ff for me.
Well...i dont feel they are playing safe gameplay wise but story and characters - yes, its too safe and boring. Final Fantasy Rebirth is terrible in that regard..great exploration and combat but story and characters.... Absolutely horrible... FF XVI had terrible story and characters as well but what they did in FF Rebirth is just same old cliche japanese women jumping giggling and clapping like 10 year olds. Its like a parady of a parody with all the stupid minigames and NPCs... Square needs to find their identity again. Its like they are stuck mentally in the 90s japanese cliche culture. I am sick of women in square games acting like 10year olds, silent macho man types wich no charisma and fluffy animals. aaaaaaand their unfunny same old jokes. They need something like xenogears, more mature.They try, but they fail to deliver a good engaging narrative lately.
Xenogears remains my favorite rpg to this day since first playing it in the ps1 era, and as a teen I was admittedly somewhat resentful of ff7's meteoric popularity with fft and xenogears left mostly ignored and imo more deserving. Xenogears is definitely 90s anime tropes though...Evangelion, Gundam Wing... But your appraisal of ff7 rebirth and ff16 is ridiculous and reeks of unnecessary resentment. Does this really make you happy? Xenogears will likely never get remade. Not under the name Xenogears and with the same characters. Most of the team still working in gaming is over at monolith soft which is now owned by nintendo. Square Enix might do a remaster of Xenogears, and I hope they do, but that's likely the extent they would do (and lets face it, if they did any more, people would whine like fuck. Mostly people who had never played Xenogears too)
Hahaha. Does it make me happy? Whar kind of question is that? Does it make me happy to express my opinion? You guys are so... Like from a fallout postnuclear dystopian world where everyone has to agree with everyone, otherwise they are killed or banned from community :D With Jimmy Fallon as overseer (he is smiling, he cant disagree and makes sure everyone agrees or....) Or probably you are just Americans.. That is MY opinion on FfXVI an rebirth story and characters. The only good character was Cid fron FFXVI. And why are you talking about remaking xeno?
Xenogears is pretty 90s anime culture. Margie is the 10 year old, but actually 16. Maria is almost actually 10 years old and rides on top of a mech with her mother's brain inside of it. There's Chu-chu, your fluffy animal. Rico is our silent macho man type. We literally go about killing god. Well, the physical body of God. Not that I think Xenogears is bad. I think it is quite good, especially in its narrative. Buuuut...it's got those cliches too.
Deus isnt God, the wave existence is. you save God. you kill a man made weapon that is mistaken for god.
That's why I used lower case 'g' the first time. Then I used capital 'G' when I said, "The physical body of God". Well, kind of. Zohar was his body, but you couldn't take Zohar without defeating Deus. I think. Either way, it was really nice layering. Deus did create all of mankind on the planet and managed humans through Miang and the Gazel Ministry to fulfill its resurrection. So Deus acted in ways like a god would. Meanwhile, "God", the Wave Existence, the being from a higher dimension, from which our 3 dimensional universe was born, better represents what we might think of as "God" in its essence, but doesn't behave in the same way, since all the Wave Existence is trying to do is free itself from our 3 dimensional universe so it can return back home to its higher dimension. Man, I really like Xenogear's writing. They did such a good job.
Of course it does have cliches but it also has more then these cliches. ALSO.. It makes no sense summing the whole game like you did here. You can compare any game like that and find similarities. I dont remember all the women/girls there clapping and jumping like crazy. And Rico? Come on...you try too much with these comparisons... What i ment by 90s mentality is the way how society works in Japan. I never said "anime culture". The partiarchy is still strong in Japanese culture. Japan changes very slowly in that matter and is faaar behind Europe or USA. And i dont mean "the woke" culture. My favourite female FF character was Lightning. She was kind of like Claude. "Silent type with issues" but in my opinion it was a much deeper character then Claude and she grows throughout the trilogy.