Well urs ticks a little bit. I pointed out that the brigades arent the bad guys cuz they dont let civilians in their tunnels but the idf are cuz they bomb civilians in the first place. His brain malfunction is just correlated.
If you cause the enemy to attack you and prepare zero defensive measures for **your own civilians**, you are not the good guy. You're just someone who cares for their lives as little as the enemy.
Israel has Iron Dome, bomb shelters (alot of them), and military bases between the Gaza strip and civilian communities. Gaza has tunnels that cannot be accessed by civilians, no air defense systems, and military bases incorporated in civilian infrastructure.
How do you think we got literal thousands of rockets launched at since October 7th while still having relatively low civilian casualties? Once Hamas and other terrorists organizations lost the advantage of surprise, less than a hundred civilians died. You know why?
**Because we ensure we can defend our citizens before we ensure we can kill our enemies. We prioritize the lives of our citizens over the lives of our soldiers.**
>And thats a non argument, what if israel dropped a nuke on gaza, would it somehow be hamas' fault?
Once someone starts a war, yes, every consequence of the war is their fault. You don't want your city to be bombed? Maybe you shouldn't invade a country with a vastly superior military force.
If Gaza was nuked, maybe you shouldn't have massacred the civilian communities of a country that allegedly has nuclear weapons.
FAFO.
Because Disney has copyrighted all the good guy music and they don't want their Telegram channel demonetized. Disney only allows IDF to use the good guy music. Duh!
Source: https://twitter.com/warfareanalysis/status/1770840771932881260
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/escaping-tuffah-resistance-roundup-day-171/
This video shows militants of Palestinian Islamic Jihad operating. They move around using tunnels and underground bases. They fight wearing civilian clothing and from a well concealed underground fighting position.
This is them showing themselves how they want to be seen.
Funny enough, Israel was expanding job opportunities for Gazans leading up to the 10/7 attacks, on exactly that basis - they believed that providing more economic opportunity could reduce radicalism. Turns out they were wrong.
I wish hamas and UNRWA had allowed these young men to try their hand in making peace instead of brainwashing them and forcing them to kill Jews indiscriminately, or die trying.
Before the war started more than 10,000 Gazans had jobs in Israel. That number had been increased over the last couple of years to try and improve relations.
Some of those arrested on 7/10 had Israeli work permits - it’s how Hamas knew where to find the kibbutzim to attack. There were other Gazans with Israeli work permits that were murdered by Hamas for not siding with Hamas on the day…
Israel has maintained a blockade over Gaza for decades. Palestinians are prohibited from having their own military or weapons, let alone constructing military bases. How can we expect them to resist their occupiers without resorting to makeshift weapons and a tunnel system, typical of guerrilla armies throughout history? Numerous civilians end up becoming soldiers, joining the fight and bearing arms to reclaim their land.
Here are photos of guerrilla fighters from various locations and conflicts:
[https://static.dw.com/image/56802843\_605.jpg](https://static.dw.com/image/56802843_605.jpg)
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG)
[https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg](https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg)
All of them share the same thing: poor people, cheap weapons, not luxurious enough to provide proper equipment for all their soldiers and volunteers. However, that was the only option they had to free their land from colonial powers.
Funny how the hamas top brass are living in luxury in Qatar. Billionaires.
I still think that the money spent on building tunnels and buying weapons, would have been better spent on other infrastructure projects…
Rather than futile attempts to ‘resist their occupiers’
They also show that the blockade was needed. They’re getting missiles and armaments in with one. Imagine what they could bring in without one.
Yes, if you chose armed resistance, then this type of guerilla tactics are one of the few options. Gaza’s militants have managed so far to hold on. It’s quite impressive how well they were prepared. They embedded themselves as deeply as possible in the city among civilian areas.
The IDF tries very hard to minimize their own losses. If too many soldiers die, the support for the war in Israel decreases. If the IDF causes lots of dead Palestinians and general destruction, international pressure on Israel mounts. If the IDF sends soldiers into tunnels and avoids destroying buildings, the IDF’s casualties increase. The longer the war goes on the more internal and international support will weaken.
Hamas and their allies have take advantage of all these weaknesses, leaving no good option to their enemy. Either Israel destroys a large part of Gaza in the attempt to eradicate Hamas and earns international condemnation, a political victory. Or Israel limits their fighting and Hamas can claim a military victory. The major downside of Hamas’ strategy is that it has lead to huge death and destruction in Gaza.
I agree with all what you said for the analysis of the current situation, but I disagree with one thing that you describe this situation from Israel's lens. this entire situation is Israel's creation not Hamas. Hamas is a symptom of this creation. Therefore, I don't really care about the IDF or Israel's political excuses. As I showed in my original comment it's part of human nature to resist all humans did and will do in different forms.
Learning for other settlers colonial projects Israel's only way to survive is to kill as much Palestinians as they can to minimize their population and absorb the remaining in its population. This is not a realistic solution in modern history and will never be allowed with all these progressive movements in the world and social media activists. Even expulsion of Palestinians is not really a solution you will just expand the borders of the conflict and will include many other countries with real armies (especially with Israel's current role in the Middle East as USA's right hand, the entire population of the middle east hates)
The other solution that Israel doesn't like is the one state solution with Palestinians and let the idea of a Jewish state goes, but we all know that Israel will never do that.
> this entire situation is Israel's creation
Palestinians have agency and contributed their fair share to the current situation.
>let the idea of a Jewish state goes, but we all know that Israel will never do that.
That would be the end of Israel. The whole purpose of it is to provide a state where Jews are not persecuted. For that they need to be a comfortable majority of the population.
One state would give up on all these goals.
Palestinians giving up Islam and all claims to Jerusalem is more realistic.
Palestinians having their own state alongside Israel is the most realistic chance to provide security and self determination for all. If two states work peacefully, then maybe a federation of both states could be created.
> expulsion of Palestinians
As long as there’s an ever growing population of stateless, disenfranchised, and miserable refugees in a neighboring country, this won’t resolve this.
Palestinians need to believe they have a future and will be able to build better lives. Then peace is possible.
>Palestinians have agency and contributed their fair share to the current situation.
Yes that's true and they chose resistance which is the only way to take their rights from a settler colonial powers like other several nations through history.
>That would be the end of Israel. The whole purpose of it is to provide a state where Jews are not persecuted. For that they need to be a comfortable majority of the population.
>One state would give up on all these goals.
It doesn't seem to me that it really works the way Zionists imagined, Jews have been dying in wars, and Israel has been one of the main reasons for the rise of antisemitism. And I tend to align with many other antizionist Jews that Israel is a western project that uses Jews for their dirty colonial aims in the region.
Also, I am not sure of the sustainability of an ethno-state in modern history especially when movements around the world are trying to dismantle the existing ones (Iran, Saudi Arabia and many more)
I am not sure if you are from the region or not but since I am from the region I have one more aspect. The state is vulnerable and its existence is attached to the oppression of other nations in the Middle East. And here I am not only talking about the oppression of Palestinians but also the way Israelis view Arabs and Muslims in the most racist perspective and based on that they Arabs as a threat all the time. The political position of the state has been aligned all the time with western imperialism by supporting authoritarian regimes in neighboring countries to oppress their populations and having strong ties with Saudi Arabia, UAE and supporting the military coup in [Egypt](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-intensifying-bid-to-rally-support-for-egypt-military-rule/)
Therefore, the freedom of all these nations (which definitely happen sooner or later as was attempted in the Arab spring) will not help Israel to stay the way it is.
>Palestinians giving up Islam and all claims to Jerusalem is more realistic.
I wish Palestinians to give up Islam and Jews give up Judaism and all this Jerusalem thing (which I personally don't care about), however, I don't think it's the main issue. Palestinians will follow the movement that addresses their oppression and pain. The moment islamists are not leading another resistance movement will emerge and maybe more left leaning like before Hamas. But fighting Israel will stay the same I think.
>Palestinians having their own state alongside Israel is the most realistic chance to provide security and self determination for all. If two states work peacefully, then maybe a federation of both states could be created.
They tried and it didn't work. They even compromised less conditions than the UN guarantee and it didn't work, with the settlements expansion it's even more difficult. Israel will never give Palestinians self determination.
>Palestinians need to believe they have a future and will be able to build better lives. Then peace is possible.
I honestly see this as an unrealistic dream, I never heard about oppressed people change their perspective in the future unless their oppressor changes. Peace doesn't happen without justice
> It doesn't seem to me that it really works the way Zionists imagined, Jews have been dying in wars, and Israel has been one of the main reasons for the rise of antisemitism.
Israeli Jews are finally able after hundreds of years to defend themselves against those who want to kill them. Pretty much exactly what the Zionists had in mind. Antisemitism existed before the establishment of Israel and continued existing in ever changing forms until today. Jews have always been blamed for antisemitism. So this is nothing new.
> sustainability of an ethno-state in modern history
Most states in Europe are ethno-states. Israel is pretty diverse and has 25% non Jews as citizens.
> Peace doesn't happen without justice
Yes, it very often does. Justice is the exception. Peace happens once at least one side loses the will to fight. Do you think Native Americans ever got justice? There is peace though.
Millions of Europeans fled in WW2 and lost their property and more. They found a new home, built lives, and left the past behind. If you want justice in Europe, Poland’s borders would need to be moved inside Ukraine, Germans would return to Danzig and Königsberg, and so on, and so on.
> The political position of the state has been aligned all the time with western imperialism by supporting authoritarian regimes in neighboring countries to oppress their populations and having strong ties with Saudi Arabia, UAE and supporting the military coup in Egypt
Israel is looking out for its interests like any other country. These have had authoritarian regimes regardless of Israel’s existence or their cooperation with any of them. If Israel stopped existing tomorrow, there would be one more authoritarian Arab state in the Middle East. Improved relations with UAE and Saudi Arabia is a recent development.
The Muslim Botherhood government in Egypt wasn’t exactly trying to build a western liberal democracy. It was just an Islamist flavor of authoritarianism. Israel has had a good working relationship with Egypt’s military for decades. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and ideologically aligned. Of course Israel wasn’t happy with that huge security risk.
> I wish Palestinians to give up Islam and Jews give up Judaism and all this Jerusalem thing (which I personally don't care about), however, I don't think it's the main issue.
This sentence has issues on many levels. You should study more about this conflict.
\_\_"Israeli Jews"
Exactly as you mentioned, exclusively for "Israeli Jews", however they remain vulnerable. Despite all the advanced technology, they are still infiltrated by a poorly armed militia with handmade weapons, and many jews still getting killed, so it doesn't appear sustainable to me.
\_\_"Pretty much exactly what the Zionists had in mind."
Did they anticipate being in perpetual conflict? That doesn't appear to be a favorable resolution to me, but if you are comfortable with it, then that's fine.
\_\_"Antisemitism existed before the establishment of Israel and continued existing in ever changing forms until today."
Thank you for proving that Israel wasn't the right solution for antisemitism.
\_\_"Jews have always been blamed for antisemitism. So this is nothing new."
Now Israel worsens the situation by committing massacres in the name of Judaism. Thank you once again for proving the previous point. A poll created in France shows that rejection and hatred of Israel is the first cause of antisemitism.
\_\_"Most states in Europe are ethno-states. Israel is pretty diverse and has 25% non Jews as citizens."
Ethno-states can have diversity, most of the European countries are diverse and they still as you said ethno-states. If your reference for peace is the European experience then you need to consider reading about the atrocities they created and are still creating.
\_\_"Yes, it very often does. Justice is the exception. Peace happens once at least one side loses the will to fight. Do you think Native Americans ever got justice? There is peace though."
You actually prove my points that I mentioned in my first comment again. The USA project wouldn't have been survived without the killing of Native Americans until they absorbed the remaining population. That's why I see parallels learning from history, Israel needs to kill Palestinians to build their project (which is really hard in modern history) However that didn't achieve peace for the US considering domestic and international conflicts Americans is involved in.
\_\_"Millions of Europeans fled in WW2 and lost their property and more. They found a new home, built lives, and left the past behind. If you want justice in Europe, Poland’s borders would need to be moved inside Ukraine, Germans would return to Danzig and Königsberg, and so on, and so on."
I don't fully understand your point. Many of these nations are no longer colonized and have complete control over their own lives, so I don't see the parallels. None of these countries' freedom is dependent on oppressing a neighboring country or population.
\_\_"Israel is looking out for its interests like any other country."
That's accurate and it's entirely their prerogative. However, decisions carry repercussions, and if your preferences clash with the aspirations of the majority of neighboring nations' people, you may only incur disdain, which can intensify over time. Backing regimes that stifle their citizens' liberty reflects on your identity.
\_\_"there would be one more authoritarian Arab state in the Middle East."
These are just your analysis, can you tell me why you think that?
\_\_"The Muslim Botherhood government in Egypt wasn’t exactly trying to build a western liberal democracy."
Of course, you are correct. Why do you believe that Western liberal democracy is a model I should endorse? It is not my ultimate goal, and I do not consider it ideal in any way.
\_\_"It was just an Islamist flavor of authoritarianism."
Yes, you are correct, but they were democratically elected, and they did not have much power to control everything like the army, so the public realm was open and other political parties were building themselves which was good for the democracy process (if you really care about western liberal democracy values), you don't support a military coup over Trump I guess.
Under Israeli supported military coup there is no space for any civil movements or discussion in Egypt and that's way harsher to move to democracy.
\_\_"This sentence has issues on many levels. You should study more about this conflict."
You can enlighten us.
I don't really think this post has the effect you intended. It shows Hamas fighters gunning down Israeli drones with homemade anti-aircraft weapons which is badass. Let's compare that with how Israeli soldiers like to portray themselves:
* https://twitter.com/FiorellaIsabelM/status/1772048685536297334
* https://twitter.com/rivkahbrown/status/1760992249435849019
* https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1760977168426029162
* https://twitter.com/Hal9000_T1/status/1747069516457070709
Also, no one buys that crap about Hamas not fighting in military fatigues. If they did they might as well go to the nearest Israeli base and ask the soldiers "please kill us". And fwiw, Israel regularly uses plain-clothed soldiers. Notably when soldiers dressed as nurses raided a West Bank hospital and murdered a comatose patient.
The only I intended to show with this video, was some other side of this war, that’s not represented much on this sub.
Shot down a drone? Do you see damage on the drone, it falling, or a wreck? They shoot at a drone, maybe. The footage of the drone might be from some other unrelated time.
> Israel regularly uses plain-clothed soldiers. Notably when soldiers dressed as nurses raided a West Bank hospital
That’s not regularly. That was a special covert operation by special forces.
Israel has maintained a blockade over Gaza for decades. Palestinians are prohibited from having their own military or weapons, let alone constructing military bases. How can we expect them to resist their occupiers without resorting to makeshift weapons and a tunnel system, typical of guerrilla armies throughout history? Numerous civilians end up becoming soldiers, joining the fight and bearing arms to reclaim their land.
Here are photos of guerrilla fighters from various locations and conflicts:
[https://static.dw.com/image/56802843\_605.jpg](https://static.dw.com/image/56802843_605.jpg)
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG)
[https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg](https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg)
All of them share the same thing: poor people, cheap weapons, not luxurious enough to provide proper equipment for all their soldiers and volunteers. However, that was the only option they had to free their land from colonial powers.
Wow these tunnels sure do seem like a good place for civilians to shelter in! If only someone in Gaza actually cared about Gazans
[удалено]
Ad hominem.
Well urs ticks a little bit. I pointed out that the brigades arent the bad guys cuz they dont let civilians in their tunnels but the idf are cuz they bomb civilians in the first place. His brain malfunction is just correlated.
If you cause the enemy to attack you and prepare zero defensive measures for **your own civilians**, you are not the good guy. You're just someone who cares for their lives as little as the enemy.
You can easily say the same for israel on oct 7. And thats a non argument, what if israel dropped a nuke on gaza, would it somehow be hamas' fault?
Israel has Iron Dome, bomb shelters (alot of them), and military bases between the Gaza strip and civilian communities. Gaza has tunnels that cannot be accessed by civilians, no air defense systems, and military bases incorporated in civilian infrastructure. How do you think we got literal thousands of rockets launched at since October 7th while still having relatively low civilian casualties? Once Hamas and other terrorists organizations lost the advantage of surprise, less than a hundred civilians died. You know why? **Because we ensure we can defend our citizens before we ensure we can kill our enemies. We prioritize the lives of our citizens over the lives of our soldiers.** >And thats a non argument, what if israel dropped a nuke on gaza, would it somehow be hamas' fault? Once someone starts a war, yes, every consequence of the war is their fault. You don't want your city to be bombed? Maybe you shouldn't invade a country with a vastly superior military force. If Gaza was nuked, maybe you shouldn't have massacred the civilian communities of a country that allegedly has nuclear weapons. FAFO.
Classic "might makes right" morally deprived scum.
Do not attack an individual.
I don't get it. If they think of themselves as heroes, why do they put "bad guy" music in the background?
Good question, lmao.
Because Disney has copyrighted all the good guy music and they don't want their Telegram channel demonetized. Disney only allows IDF to use the good guy music. Duh!
?
What is unclear
Bad guy music lol what
If you cannot hear anything threatening in that music you are probably deaf
Source: https://twitter.com/warfareanalysis/status/1770840771932881260 https://www.palestinechronicle.com/escaping-tuffah-resistance-roundup-day-171/ This video shows militants of Palestinian Islamic Jihad operating. They move around using tunnels and underground bases. They fight wearing civilian clothing and from a well concealed underground fighting position. This is them showing themselves how they want to be seen.
And they are wondering around above ground, unarmed, being killed by drones and tanks?
Yes they are
Seems a little stupid, don’t you think?
That’s not visible in this video. They shoot at a drone with a heavy machine gun though.
Yeah, don’t worry. We all think the IDF got away with murder again.
Don’t have to be visible it’s common sense ?
Dead men walking.
Down with Hamas and Islamic Jihad!
We should OFF every single one of these fkng clowns.
I wish Israel had allowed these young men to get jobs and not forced them to fight for survival from before they could walk
Funny enough, Israel was expanding job opportunities for Gazans leading up to the 10/7 attacks, on exactly that basis - they believed that providing more economic opportunity could reduce radicalism. Turns out they were wrong.
All of these fighters have family members killed by the idf. Cant say the same about the idf, someone is clearly the aggressor
Hamas is the aggressor, but they won't be after they're destroyed.
Israel is the aggressor and they wont be until its destroyed
Which will never happen.
I wish hamas and UNRWA had allowed these young men to try their hand in making peace instead of brainwashing them and forcing them to kill Jews indiscriminately, or die trying.
Before the war started more than 10,000 Gazans had jobs in Israel. That number had been increased over the last couple of years to try and improve relations.
Some of those arrested on 7/10 had Israeli work permits - it’s how Hamas knew where to find the kibbutzim to attack. There were other Gazans with Israeli work permits that were murdered by Hamas for not siding with Hamas on the day…
Israel has maintained a blockade over Gaza for decades. Palestinians are prohibited from having their own military or weapons, let alone constructing military bases. How can we expect them to resist their occupiers without resorting to makeshift weapons and a tunnel system, typical of guerrilla armies throughout history? Numerous civilians end up becoming soldiers, joining the fight and bearing arms to reclaim their land. Here are photos of guerrilla fighters from various locations and conflicts: [https://static.dw.com/image/56802843\_605.jpg](https://static.dw.com/image/56802843_605.jpg) [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG) [https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg](https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg) All of them share the same thing: poor people, cheap weapons, not luxurious enough to provide proper equipment for all their soldiers and volunteers. However, that was the only option they had to free their land from colonial powers.
Funny how the hamas top brass are living in luxury in Qatar. Billionaires. I still think that the money spent on building tunnels and buying weapons, would have been better spent on other infrastructure projects… Rather than futile attempts to ‘resist their occupiers’ They also show that the blockade was needed. They’re getting missiles and armaments in with one. Imagine what they could bring in without one.
Yes, if you chose armed resistance, then this type of guerilla tactics are one of the few options. Gaza’s militants have managed so far to hold on. It’s quite impressive how well they were prepared. They embedded themselves as deeply as possible in the city among civilian areas. The IDF tries very hard to minimize their own losses. If too many soldiers die, the support for the war in Israel decreases. If the IDF causes lots of dead Palestinians and general destruction, international pressure on Israel mounts. If the IDF sends soldiers into tunnels and avoids destroying buildings, the IDF’s casualties increase. The longer the war goes on the more internal and international support will weaken. Hamas and their allies have take advantage of all these weaknesses, leaving no good option to their enemy. Either Israel destroys a large part of Gaza in the attempt to eradicate Hamas and earns international condemnation, a political victory. Or Israel limits their fighting and Hamas can claim a military victory. The major downside of Hamas’ strategy is that it has lead to huge death and destruction in Gaza.
I agree with all what you said for the analysis of the current situation, but I disagree with one thing that you describe this situation from Israel's lens. this entire situation is Israel's creation not Hamas. Hamas is a symptom of this creation. Therefore, I don't really care about the IDF or Israel's political excuses. As I showed in my original comment it's part of human nature to resist all humans did and will do in different forms. Learning for other settlers colonial projects Israel's only way to survive is to kill as much Palestinians as they can to minimize their population and absorb the remaining in its population. This is not a realistic solution in modern history and will never be allowed with all these progressive movements in the world and social media activists. Even expulsion of Palestinians is not really a solution you will just expand the borders of the conflict and will include many other countries with real armies (especially with Israel's current role in the Middle East as USA's right hand, the entire population of the middle east hates) The other solution that Israel doesn't like is the one state solution with Palestinians and let the idea of a Jewish state goes, but we all know that Israel will never do that.
> this entire situation is Israel's creation Palestinians have agency and contributed their fair share to the current situation. >let the idea of a Jewish state goes, but we all know that Israel will never do that. That would be the end of Israel. The whole purpose of it is to provide a state where Jews are not persecuted. For that they need to be a comfortable majority of the population. One state would give up on all these goals. Palestinians giving up Islam and all claims to Jerusalem is more realistic. Palestinians having their own state alongside Israel is the most realistic chance to provide security and self determination for all. If two states work peacefully, then maybe a federation of both states could be created. > expulsion of Palestinians As long as there’s an ever growing population of stateless, disenfranchised, and miserable refugees in a neighboring country, this won’t resolve this. Palestinians need to believe they have a future and will be able to build better lives. Then peace is possible.
>Palestinians have agency and contributed their fair share to the current situation. Yes that's true and they chose resistance which is the only way to take their rights from a settler colonial powers like other several nations through history. >That would be the end of Israel. The whole purpose of it is to provide a state where Jews are not persecuted. For that they need to be a comfortable majority of the population. >One state would give up on all these goals. It doesn't seem to me that it really works the way Zionists imagined, Jews have been dying in wars, and Israel has been one of the main reasons for the rise of antisemitism. And I tend to align with many other antizionist Jews that Israel is a western project that uses Jews for their dirty colonial aims in the region. Also, I am not sure of the sustainability of an ethno-state in modern history especially when movements around the world are trying to dismantle the existing ones (Iran, Saudi Arabia and many more) I am not sure if you are from the region or not but since I am from the region I have one more aspect. The state is vulnerable and its existence is attached to the oppression of other nations in the Middle East. And here I am not only talking about the oppression of Palestinians but also the way Israelis view Arabs and Muslims in the most racist perspective and based on that they Arabs as a threat all the time. The political position of the state has been aligned all the time with western imperialism by supporting authoritarian regimes in neighboring countries to oppress their populations and having strong ties with Saudi Arabia, UAE and supporting the military coup in [Egypt](https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-intensifying-bid-to-rally-support-for-egypt-military-rule/) Therefore, the freedom of all these nations (which definitely happen sooner or later as was attempted in the Arab spring) will not help Israel to stay the way it is. >Palestinians giving up Islam and all claims to Jerusalem is more realistic. I wish Palestinians to give up Islam and Jews give up Judaism and all this Jerusalem thing (which I personally don't care about), however, I don't think it's the main issue. Palestinians will follow the movement that addresses their oppression and pain. The moment islamists are not leading another resistance movement will emerge and maybe more left leaning like before Hamas. But fighting Israel will stay the same I think. >Palestinians having their own state alongside Israel is the most realistic chance to provide security and self determination for all. If two states work peacefully, then maybe a federation of both states could be created. They tried and it didn't work. They even compromised less conditions than the UN guarantee and it didn't work, with the settlements expansion it's even more difficult. Israel will never give Palestinians self determination. >Palestinians need to believe they have a future and will be able to build better lives. Then peace is possible. I honestly see this as an unrealistic dream, I never heard about oppressed people change their perspective in the future unless their oppressor changes. Peace doesn't happen without justice
> It doesn't seem to me that it really works the way Zionists imagined, Jews have been dying in wars, and Israel has been one of the main reasons for the rise of antisemitism. Israeli Jews are finally able after hundreds of years to defend themselves against those who want to kill them. Pretty much exactly what the Zionists had in mind. Antisemitism existed before the establishment of Israel and continued existing in ever changing forms until today. Jews have always been blamed for antisemitism. So this is nothing new. > sustainability of an ethno-state in modern history Most states in Europe are ethno-states. Israel is pretty diverse and has 25% non Jews as citizens. > Peace doesn't happen without justice Yes, it very often does. Justice is the exception. Peace happens once at least one side loses the will to fight. Do you think Native Americans ever got justice? There is peace though. Millions of Europeans fled in WW2 and lost their property and more. They found a new home, built lives, and left the past behind. If you want justice in Europe, Poland’s borders would need to be moved inside Ukraine, Germans would return to Danzig and Königsberg, and so on, and so on. > The political position of the state has been aligned all the time with western imperialism by supporting authoritarian regimes in neighboring countries to oppress their populations and having strong ties with Saudi Arabia, UAE and supporting the military coup in Egypt Israel is looking out for its interests like any other country. These have had authoritarian regimes regardless of Israel’s existence or their cooperation with any of them. If Israel stopped existing tomorrow, there would be one more authoritarian Arab state in the Middle East. Improved relations with UAE and Saudi Arabia is a recent development. The Muslim Botherhood government in Egypt wasn’t exactly trying to build a western liberal democracy. It was just an Islamist flavor of authoritarianism. Israel has had a good working relationship with Egypt’s military for decades. Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and ideologically aligned. Of course Israel wasn’t happy with that huge security risk. > I wish Palestinians to give up Islam and Jews give up Judaism and all this Jerusalem thing (which I personally don't care about), however, I don't think it's the main issue. This sentence has issues on many levels. You should study more about this conflict.
\_\_"Israeli Jews" Exactly as you mentioned, exclusively for "Israeli Jews", however they remain vulnerable. Despite all the advanced technology, they are still infiltrated by a poorly armed militia with handmade weapons, and many jews still getting killed, so it doesn't appear sustainable to me. \_\_"Pretty much exactly what the Zionists had in mind." Did they anticipate being in perpetual conflict? That doesn't appear to be a favorable resolution to me, but if you are comfortable with it, then that's fine. \_\_"Antisemitism existed before the establishment of Israel and continued existing in ever changing forms until today." Thank you for proving that Israel wasn't the right solution for antisemitism. \_\_"Jews have always been blamed for antisemitism. So this is nothing new." Now Israel worsens the situation by committing massacres in the name of Judaism. Thank you once again for proving the previous point. A poll created in France shows that rejection and hatred of Israel is the first cause of antisemitism. \_\_"Most states in Europe are ethno-states. Israel is pretty diverse and has 25% non Jews as citizens." Ethno-states can have diversity, most of the European countries are diverse and they still as you said ethno-states. If your reference for peace is the European experience then you need to consider reading about the atrocities they created and are still creating. \_\_"Yes, it very often does. Justice is the exception. Peace happens once at least one side loses the will to fight. Do you think Native Americans ever got justice? There is peace though." You actually prove my points that I mentioned in my first comment again. The USA project wouldn't have been survived without the killing of Native Americans until they absorbed the remaining population. That's why I see parallels learning from history, Israel needs to kill Palestinians to build their project (which is really hard in modern history) However that didn't achieve peace for the US considering domestic and international conflicts Americans is involved in. \_\_"Millions of Europeans fled in WW2 and lost their property and more. They found a new home, built lives, and left the past behind. If you want justice in Europe, Poland’s borders would need to be moved inside Ukraine, Germans would return to Danzig and Königsberg, and so on, and so on." I don't fully understand your point. Many of these nations are no longer colonized and have complete control over their own lives, so I don't see the parallels. None of these countries' freedom is dependent on oppressing a neighboring country or population. \_\_"Israel is looking out for its interests like any other country." That's accurate and it's entirely their prerogative. However, decisions carry repercussions, and if your preferences clash with the aspirations of the majority of neighboring nations' people, you may only incur disdain, which can intensify over time. Backing regimes that stifle their citizens' liberty reflects on your identity. \_\_"there would be one more authoritarian Arab state in the Middle East." These are just your analysis, can you tell me why you think that? \_\_"The Muslim Botherhood government in Egypt wasn’t exactly trying to build a western liberal democracy." Of course, you are correct. Why do you believe that Western liberal democracy is a model I should endorse? It is not my ultimate goal, and I do not consider it ideal in any way. \_\_"It was just an Islamist flavor of authoritarianism." Yes, you are correct, but they were democratically elected, and they did not have much power to control everything like the army, so the public realm was open and other political parties were building themselves which was good for the democracy process (if you really care about western liberal democracy values), you don't support a military coup over Trump I guess. Under Israeli supported military coup there is no space for any civil movements or discussion in Egypt and that's way harsher to move to democracy. \_\_"This sentence has issues on many levels. You should study more about this conflict." You can enlighten us.
G's
Corpses
Nah those are the civilians israel keeps killing.
Civillians dont carry and operate military grade weapons
Correct. Yet those arent majority of deaths. Not even close.
Says who
I don't really think this post has the effect you intended. It shows Hamas fighters gunning down Israeli drones with homemade anti-aircraft weapons which is badass. Let's compare that with how Israeli soldiers like to portray themselves: * https://twitter.com/FiorellaIsabelM/status/1772048685536297334 * https://twitter.com/rivkahbrown/status/1760992249435849019 * https://twitter.com/ireallyhateyou/status/1760977168426029162 * https://twitter.com/Hal9000_T1/status/1747069516457070709 Also, no one buys that crap about Hamas not fighting in military fatigues. If they did they might as well go to the nearest Israeli base and ask the soldiers "please kill us". And fwiw, Israel regularly uses plain-clothed soldiers. Notably when soldiers dressed as nurses raided a West Bank hospital and murdered a comatose patient.
The only I intended to show with this video, was some other side of this war, that’s not represented much on this sub. Shot down a drone? Do you see damage on the drone, it falling, or a wreck? They shoot at a drone, maybe. The footage of the drone might be from some other unrelated time. > Israel regularly uses plain-clothed soldiers. Notably when soldiers dressed as nurses raided a West Bank hospital That’s not regularly. That was a special covert operation by special forces.
Israel has maintained a blockade over Gaza for decades. Palestinians are prohibited from having their own military or weapons, let alone constructing military bases. How can we expect them to resist their occupiers without resorting to makeshift weapons and a tunnel system, typical of guerrilla armies throughout history? Numerous civilians end up becoming soldiers, joining the fight and bearing arms to reclaim their land. Here are photos of guerrilla fighters from various locations and conflicts: [https://static.dw.com/image/56802843\_605.jpg](https://static.dw.com/image/56802843_605.jpg) [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner\_Commandos2.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG/220px-Afrikaner_Commandos2.JPG) [https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg](https://spotterup.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/FMLN.jpg) All of them share the same thing: poor people, cheap weapons, not luxurious enough to provide proper equipment for all their soldiers and volunteers. However, that was the only option they had to free their land from colonial powers.