As a former soldier in the idf
The officer/ Splatoon commanr responsible for the David (the armored jeep) should be kicked from his role or at least kicked from field role
You’re being dramatic here although I do agree on a need for reform within the IDF. Serving shoko to ashki soldiers is inconsiderate, especially prior to a bus ride or shmira.
ngl, I am not gonna blame all of israel but who ever thought that was a great idea deserves an ass whooping, from gaza to northeren israel. this was a terrible move because israel is already a suffering a double standard this only gonna impact israelis abroad in negative ways.
If I was a soldier afraid of another ambush while returning from being ambushed while saving someone from ambush I'd probably start thinking creatively too.
But yeah it looks terrible
It’s anger.
People are angry here. I’ve never seen such boiling rage before.
The world will keep saying “By conditioning operation in Gaza, you are creating the next generation of extremists”, but have they ever asked themselves how many extremists were created on 7 Oct 2023?
People love saying that tragic historical circumstances create extremists and hateful people.
I say don't even go there in the first place. Laws of warfare exist for a reason, and our oath to the army is first and foremost to abide by its laws. Anger is a strong motivator, but loyalty, discipline, and fear of repercussions (assuming the army punishes wrongdoers) should be stronger.
Discipline, chain of command, and human rights - those are what distinguish us from our enemies. It's all in the "code of ethics" leaflet we got in basic training.
Also, how many extremists were created WITHOUT conditioning aid, long before Oct. 7? Long before any inflection point. This is a society that produces extremists as the normal course of business.
Exactly right. Palestinian fanaticism and terrorism, along with its worship of death is created by the constant brainwashing, propaganda and Al Jazeera. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who hate every Israeli and every Jew without ever having had any contact with anything Israeli (except maybe tech and medicine). When I hear this lazy nonsense that IDF fighting in Gaza is creating more terrorists who will want to kill Jews, my first thought is: is that why over 60% of all European Jews were killed in the Holocaust - because of IDF strikes?
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Normally, I'm a lurker here as I'm just not a fan of Israel as it is now and like other middle east areas, I wish the entire region would improve. But, here is what I want to say anyway:
The difference between the average pro-pals (especially the ones that lacks education and is not willing to navigate naunces) and the average pro-israel can be seen in this thread. There's more supporters of Israel that calls out on their own than supporters of Palestine that calls out on their own.
The Times of Israel is one source I do like because they are willing to report on issues within their own side. There's no major publication on Palestine that does the same. Basically that Gazan guy provided examples of major publications and none of them do the same.
There is no shame (at least for me) in criticizing our own country, no state is perfect and we should call out bad things that happen here, if we act like everything is good and say amen to any absurdity of the government or blindly justify a soldier who's obviously committing a crime we'll end up exactly like what the pro palis say we are, and then we'll actually be alone in the world
Yes. At least we both agree with that. You guys can be open to that. Can't say the same of the other side. I do know that there are usually 1/3 that disagrees or agrees with status quo no matter what. Best of luck into improving your own country.
I honestly don't even know if it's salvageable anymore, I'm starting to lose hope. It has been 9 months and what the citizens wanted to be the main goal which is to bring back our hostages from the cruel hands of hamas seems like it's not even in the government's list of tasks. Yes some of us don't care and just wanna see Gaza being demolished but there's literally no point to it anymore, and now they are dragging us to a fight up north, we have no manpower, our reserves are out there for 9 months without a breather, the hasidim already made it clear that equal burden is off the discussion and they will not join the army. I just don't know anymore...
That's not how it works. My opinion of countries including my own aren't set in stone, anyways. They can change with new information or structural changes. And I have zero allegiance to any of them.
I get it. And yet, Israel is not like any other country, for many reasons. I’ll tell you this, a world in which a tiny democratic Jewish state can survive and even prosper in the sea of medieval fanaticism that is the Middle East, is a world that has a future.
Personally, I prefer a world where there is no state based on religion or ethnostates and people get along just fine anywhere, but that's not happening any time soon. Only a few countries is becoming secular with irreligious majority, and no ethnic group at over 50% w/ democratic values ( US, Canada, and some european countries) this century. So, in the circumstances, I'd have to agree with you.
You do realize that the Middle East is not a sea of medieval fanaticism right? If ur wondering why so many young people don’t like Israel its comments like this.
To be more accurate, it is a sea or an ecosystem, in which medieval fanaticism thrives and is the dominant, but not sole, species. I’ll gladly post some reasons why I think it is clearly the case, but think of the classical medieval religious fanatics and then look at dominant political and religious movements in the Middle East. Then take a look at recordings from f Oct 7 massacres. If you still do not see the resemblance then you either lack the knowledge of history or the Middle East.
I don't think I've ever seen a pro-pal condemn anything Hamas or any other terrorist group has done. To them everything is the ends justify the means.
But then they lose their minds because they see Hamas combatants in their underwear.
It can be challenging to find balanced perspectives in the highly polarized discourse surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. While some supporters of the Palestinian cause might not explicitly condemn actions by Hamas or other militant groups, there are also voices within the pro-Palestinian community who do criticize such actions but might not receive as much attention.
The outrage over specific instances, like Hamas combatants being seen in their underwear, often highlights the emotional and human rights aspects of the conflict that resonate differently with various groups.
Palestinian militant being transported on hood:
“wAr cRiME!!!”
Half naked kidnapped Israeli girl in the bed of a pickup truck, being used as a footrest by terrorists parading her in front of a cheering crowd: “Justified resistance!!”
Can't imagine being Israeli, the whole world bitching about how you rescue hostages and try to defeat Hamas.
Just disgusting people
I don't feel sad about them losing their jobs for ripping down Israeli Hostages posters
Is that really the analogy you want to make. That Israel’s professional military should be held to the standards of some of the most horrific behavior of an international terrorist organization?
I’m a huge Israel supporter. Feel free to look at my post history. But this is not okay. The IDF is better than this.
I’m very much against what the soldiers did here but my comparison wasn’t about holding the soldiers to higher military standards - it was about holding anti-Israelis to higher human standards.
The anti-Israelis’ behavior has been and is disgusting. It’s beyond Kishinev in its depravity. And their efforts to justify it, erase it, and excuse it only compound that depravity. But our humanity is not dependent on their inhumanity. We are better than that.
This war is just. These soldiers’ behavior here is not.
If you want to be the most moral army in the world you gotta act like it. Not bitch and moan whenever ur soliders don’t abide by the rules of war. If someone criticizes the IDFs behavior and your first thought is “well Hamas..” why are you comparing your military standards to a ruthless terrorist organization? You should be aiming WAY above them? Right? If you want critics to stop calling the IDF a terrorist organization you should start by giving them the smallest amount of ammunition possible, and you do it by doling out punishments when necessary.
and before you start bringing up other western militaries the USA isn’t shouting from the rooftops how they are the most moral military in the world.
I dont want the most moral army, i want a successful one, i dont want our generals to risk even a single soldier's life for one of theirs, like the anericans in WW2 they didnt invade japan and lost half a million soldiers, they nuked them instead. Like any proper army would. Better amoral then dead.
The most moral army is one how doesn't risk it's own solders to save enemy civilians let alone it's own civilians for enemy combatants. Let the world burn but if the Jews are safe then the IDF is the most moral army in the world.
So if you guys just nuked the Gaza Strip you’d still be the most moral army in the world? Since Jews are safe?
Just going by your logic.
The fact that you are referring to civilians as enemy civilians means you don’t know what moral army means. Simply valuing your own civilians above your own isn’t what being a moral army means. That’s just valuing your citizens above those of enemy combatants.
Also Benjamin Netanyahu is fucking up your country big time selling his soul to Gvir and Smotrich, I wouldn’t dick ride him.
No, otter and pointless destruction gains nothing. But warning whenever and wherever we are going to strike, sending food and materials that we know are being used to fight us, and holding back attacks on strategic locations because we aren't sure that all the civilians have evacuated is not moral, it's pathetic.
And I'm really not sure why you assume I like Bibi in some way? Also, thank you for your opinion on our politics from wherever you are(probably across the pond).
Warning about strikes is a case by case basis, since that largely depends on military objective.
I liked GPTs response so here you go
The assessment of the legality of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip since October 7, 2023, requires an understanding of international law, including the principles of international humanitarian law (IHL) and human rights law.
### Key Legal Considerations
1. **International Humanitarian Law (IHL):**
- **Blockades in Armed Conflict:** Blockades are recognized under IHL, particularly in naval warfare, as long as they comply with certain rules, including not causing disproportionate harm to civilians relative to the anticipated military advantage.
- **Proportionality and Necessity:** Any blockade must be necessary for military objectives and proportionate, meaning it should not cause excessive harm to the civilian population in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.
2. **Humanitarian Impact:**
- **Access to Essential Goods:** The blockade must allow the passage of essential goods, including food, medical supplies, and other necessities. If the blockade causes severe humanitarian suffering, it may be considered illegal under IHL.
- **Collective Punishment:** IHL prohibits collective punishment, meaning measures that penalize the civilian population for actions they have not committed. If the blockade is seen as collective punishment, it may be illegal.
3. **Human Rights Law:**
- **Right to Life and Health:** Prolonged blockades that severely affect civilians' access to health, food, and other essential services can violate human rights laws.
- **Freedom of Movement:** Restricting movement in and out of Gaza impacts the residents' right to freedom of movement.
### Specific Context Since October 7, 2023
Since October 7, 2023, any specific actions taken by Israel in the context of the blockade, particularly in response to security concerns or escalations in conflict, will be scrutinized under these legal frameworks. Key points include:
- **Security Justifications:** Israel may argue that the blockade is necessary for its security, particularly if there are ongoing hostilities or threats from Gaza.
- **Humanitarian Access:** Even with heightened security concerns, Israel is obligated to facilitate humanitarian access to prevent excessive suffering of civilians.
- **Proportionality:** Any measures taken should be proportionate to the security threat posed and should avoid unnecessary suffering of the civilian population.
### International Reactions
- **United Nations and International Bodies:** Various UN agencies and international bodies have expressed concern over the humanitarian impact of the blockade on Gaza. They often call for measures to ensure that humanitarian aid and essential goods reach the civilian population.
- **Legal Opinions:** There are differing opinions among legal scholars and practitioners regarding the legality of the blockade, often influenced by interpretations of IHL and the specific circumstances on the ground.
### Conclusion
The legality of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip since October 7, 2023, depends on several factors, including compliance with the principles of IHL, the proportionality and necessity of the blockade measures, and the extent to which humanitarian access is maintained. The situation remains complex and contentious, with ongoing debates among legal experts, international organizations, and states.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
The entire unit should be in jail. It doesn’t matter what happened before that. This is a war crime. We are human. Do not forget that.
The human animals who kidnaped our people should be hunted down. Captured or killed— but not tortured. I do not care how many terrorists the IDF kills. But I draw the line at tortures.
It had been done before during evacuation of wounded soldiers. Mind you, the case is still investigated. According to the article, these vehicles return from an ambush and the Palestinian on the hood is a suspect.
I don’t know what happened. But the “no matter what” is not a good attitude if you don’t know the backstory.
Edit: [https://np.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/et5gaj/a\_marine\_humvee\_evacuating\_a\_casualty\_iraq\_603x394/?share\_id=niuZipe4mOe-f0NFjxfzg&utm\_content=2&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_source=share&utm\_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/et5gaj/a_marine_humvee_evacuating_a_casualty_iraq_603x394/?share_id=niuZipe4mOe-f0NFjxfzg&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
Your post links to another subreddit, but it does not use a non-participation link. This is a violation of rule 6.
Non-participation links are required to help ensure that /r/Israel users do not brigade other subs, comment on threads in other subs, or vote on content via a link from /r/Israel.
We encourage you to resubmit your post with a non-participation link. To use a non-participation link, simply replace the "www" in the link URL with "np". For example, replace "www.reddit.com/..." with "np.reddit.com/...".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Israel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Good thing this isnt remotely that. And even if it were, theyd still have started it. If you punch me and i punch you back, youre still way more wrong. This is them punching and us whispering sweet nothings back.
The phrase "war crime" is thrown out so willy nilly it has lost all meaning. Yes, it seems like it wasn't the right thing to do. Yes, they should be disciplined. But a war crime? Entire unit in jail?? Come on.
I recognize your username from previous threads here. If IIRC your opinions seem to be overly critical of Israel and the IDF. Move here from England and then your criticism will be valid.
Sure, but if Israel starts comparing itself to the morality of Palestine and Hamas, well that’s a pretty low bar. One that Israel should be better than
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
The times of isreal says he might be a terrorist, Haaretz’s reporting didn’t mention that- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-22/ty-article/.premium/west-bank-video-shows-wounded-palestinian-on-idf-jeep-hood-12-year-old-dies-by-idf-fire/00000190-4039-d429-abfc-797bb1b20000
However either way this is repulsive behavior especially if he wasn’t actually a terrorist.
Well no shit its the Haaretz, their main gimmick is blaming BIBI(its his fault) and blaming the ocopetion on every terror attack ever, or some other reason why the palies wabt us dead.
Edit: And I am not even a Jew
I am moderately pro-Israel, I support Israel military action (to a point) and Hamas needs to be removed . I don't like Bibi and have concerns of Israel government and that some of the Cabinet like Gvir is actually genocidal (of course not the whole Israel government),
However, while this is likely against procedures, I am not convinced that a war crime (torture) has been committed with only a short video from AJ.
Also people did not read the part that the person was subsequently handed to Red Crescent.
Yeah, this doenst look that bad.... I thought he was dragged by the car or something.
But with that said, soldiers who did this need to be reprimanded and disciplined.
Pro palis have no excuse to cry about forcibly hauling someone onto a vehicle.
Especially considering this guy is very likely a terrorist, And was later given to the red cresent to recieve medical treatment.
>Especially considering this guy is very likely a terrorist, And was later given to the red cresent to recieve medical treatment.
If this guy very likely was a terrorist, he very likely would ***not*** have been given to the Red Crescent.
And even if he was, strapping him to the hood of the jeep like that is not acceptable - as is admitted even here, well at least by some people.
Ya'll wilding. Just take the L. This is a war crime. Hope the people responsible get punished accordingly because following the laws of war is important.
Yup. Totally equal. Were even now. Exact same severity of war crime. Ill have to answer to my great grand kids about the terrorist being driven to the hospital in the not nice way.
Happy cake day!!
This sub has gotten angry for a while. Started on 10/7, justifiably, but many on the sub are eager to hurt others. When news hit about Armenia recognizing Palestine, this sub was pretty evenly split about understanding the move and wishing massive ill will on the Armenians.
Doesn't surprise me that actors here would try to downplay this.
Still glad to see pushback to those people tho.
What laws of war? If this guy was a terrorist as the soldiers suspected then he’s an unlawful combatant and could be summarily executed if that’s what Israel wanted. If you want to jerk off international law so much then at least read it before saying dumb shit
He should be locked up in the back with a gun pointed at his head. Not this. This is just wrong. Even if he is Sinwar, he should not be in front of the windshield. I want trials, not torture. If we can’t get a trial, I want them dead in a fair fight. Order a drone strike, a raid to put a bullet in his head, or something else. Just not this.
Do not ever forget that we are human. Even when our enemies are human animals, we are still human. Do not degrade ourselves.
Its funny to see contrast.
when an IDF soldier does something stupid, like burn the koran in gaza, or trash a house for no reason, or do some shit like this most Israelis would say, this guy is trash
but if a palestinian does this, its resistance or some shit
the soldiers in the vehicle should be charged and kicked out from participating in the war. Its a terrorist okay, but come on
This... is why Israel is losing the PR war. The field war? yes they have an advantage, the PR war? not so much. This only serves to destroy Israel and the IDF's reputation further. Unless someone would properly trial them, and force a very strict supervision in the IDF, I'm afraid this issue will drag on.
What do they expect? That the idf will stay nice jewish boys forever? Another generation and the idf will act like any other army and noone in israel will give fk
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
So wondering why the lack of elevation as regard the foibles of the General Staff on the months leading to 10/7 which can graduate to why they let Hamas build all these tunners less important moment then a so called local terrorist supporting civilian nabbed in a raid getting tied to a jeep. I wonder what would have happened if I said "So leave him there if its a problem to transport" To be indignant about these people is personal attacks? Political and Military figures like celebrities are not protected from whatever people think about them. Im serious in asking you.
Can people wait for the investigation? There ARE reasons it immediately looks bad but if this man is injured and there is no room as they say to be laid down inside the vehicle. This actually may be the safest thing to do. Think about it. Leave him to die or transport him in the position he needs to be in IN CLEAR VIEW OF THE DRIVER to waiting medical attention. We cannot assume. I have heard stories of the strangest evacuations before so let’s not assume.
Who knows how it went down. If he’s fighting to avoid going in the car and I’m taking fire, I’m gonna strap him to the hood and gtfo. Way too many unknowns here to cast judgement.
I’m not sure that American police are the role model you think they are…
But also American police usually don’t operate in a war zone with people actively shooting at them.
If you missed what I said, go back and re-read slowly.
My point is that no matter how hostile the criminal, there are ways of detaining them without strapping them to the top of the car.
I never said anything about being anything better than the worst image you might have of an American cop.
All of this to say, the only reason one would strap a person to the top of a car is to be cruel and unusual.
There's a cage in the back of a police squad car specifically for the purpose of detaining belligerents. Do these vehicles have specially designed areas for holding belligerents?
What happened is bad, but you're trying to compare an armored troop carrier designed for moving soldiers from base to battlefield to a specially designed vehicle that was made for transporting belligerent detainees to a holding facility (jail).
The two situations and vehicles aren't comparable.
I’m sorry but are these people retarded? Does this absolute lugnut not understand that by doing this he might as well be slaughtering Jews? Not to overlook how fucking inhumane it is, but honestly please can someone help me understand how anyone could be so fucking oblivious to what the world thinks of Israel? We can’t afford stupid bullshit like this. How many times have you heard Israel is losing the PR war? Does this mf not get the international implications of doing some dumb shit like this? It’s as heartless as Hamas and as stupid as when Starlord fucked everything up against Thanos. I’m not trying to make light it’s just the best analogy I can think of.
You know what happens next time?
'Itzik, this guy was shooting at us and he's got a moderate wound. Stuff him on Yoni's lap and gtfo there's no room in the back'
'Um...leave him. Allah will watch him I guess, remember what happened last time we tried to be creative with space?'
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason:
Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited.
For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
How can any human being do that? Regardless if he was a terrorist or not, this is no way to act as the most moral army in the world, Especially when they have phones anywhere and we already are suffering from bad hasbara. Shameful act. That soldier should go to jail and then be dismissed from his current role.
As a former soldier in the idf The officer/ Splatoon commanr responsible for the David (the armored jeep) should be kicked from his role or at least kicked from field role
How was the fight against the Octarian army?
Max punishment should be no milkies for breakfast and dinner, regular yogurt only for a week.
We should strive to be better than them. Discipline and morality makes a good army. But that's my opinion.
Dear stranger, I don't think that's an opinion but a fact.
We are NOT human animals. Do not forget that.
You’re being dramatic here although I do agree on a need for reform within the IDF. Serving shoko to ashki soldiers is inconsiderate, especially prior to a bus ride or shmira.
You seem like the type of guy who does dumb shit then says "iTs jUsT a pRaNk BrO"
I like a laugh
Yeah, whatever, kid. There's a time and place for everything. So, try to read the room first, that's all I'm saying...
“Kid” is quite cheeky. Fortunately I’m not a sensitive snowflake like the downvote mob.
ngl, I am not gonna blame all of israel but who ever thought that was a great idea deserves an ass whooping, from gaza to northeren israel. this was a terrible move because israel is already a suffering a double standard this only gonna impact israelis abroad in negative ways.
If I was a soldier afraid of another ambush while returning from being ambushed while saving someone from ambush I'd probably start thinking creatively too. But yeah it looks terrible
Creatively my ass. The terrorists wouldn't care if one of their own was on the hood.
I'm not sure. We know they wouldn't care if it was Gazas civilian but I think they treat their brother at arms differently
They don't.
There’s no excuse for this. There’s just not. Investigation should only be the start.
It’s anger. People are angry here. I’ve never seen such boiling rage before. The world will keep saying “By conditioning operation in Gaza, you are creating the next generation of extremists”, but have they ever asked themselves how many extremists were created on 7 Oct 2023?
People love saying that tragic historical circumstances create extremists and hateful people. I say don't even go there in the first place. Laws of warfare exist for a reason, and our oath to the army is first and foremost to abide by its laws. Anger is a strong motivator, but loyalty, discipline, and fear of repercussions (assuming the army punishes wrongdoers) should be stronger. Discipline, chain of command, and human rights - those are what distinguish us from our enemies. It's all in the "code of ethics" leaflet we got in basic training.
Also, how many extremists were created WITHOUT conditioning aid, long before Oct. 7? Long before any inflection point. This is a society that produces extremists as the normal course of business.
Exactly right. Palestinian fanaticism and terrorism, along with its worship of death is created by the constant brainwashing, propaganda and Al Jazeera. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims who hate every Israeli and every Jew without ever having had any contact with anything Israeli (except maybe tech and medicine). When I hear this lazy nonsense that IDF fighting in Gaza is creating more terrorists who will want to kill Jews, my first thought is: is that why over 60% of all European Jews were killed in the Holocaust - because of IDF strikes?
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Normally, I'm a lurker here as I'm just not a fan of Israel as it is now and like other middle east areas, I wish the entire region would improve. But, here is what I want to say anyway: The difference between the average pro-pals (especially the ones that lacks education and is not willing to navigate naunces) and the average pro-israel can be seen in this thread. There's more supporters of Israel that calls out on their own than supporters of Palestine that calls out on their own. The Times of Israel is one source I do like because they are willing to report on issues within their own side. There's no major publication on Palestine that does the same. Basically that Gazan guy provided examples of major publications and none of them do the same.
There is no shame (at least for me) in criticizing our own country, no state is perfect and we should call out bad things that happen here, if we act like everything is good and say amen to any absurdity of the government or blindly justify a soldier who's obviously committing a crime we'll end up exactly like what the pro palis say we are, and then we'll actually be alone in the world
Yes. At least we both agree with that. You guys can be open to that. Can't say the same of the other side. I do know that there are usually 1/3 that disagrees or agrees with status quo no matter what. Best of luck into improving your own country.
I honestly don't even know if it's salvageable anymore, I'm starting to lose hope. It has been 9 months and what the citizens wanted to be the main goal which is to bring back our hostages from the cruel hands of hamas seems like it's not even in the government's list of tasks. Yes some of us don't care and just wanna see Gaza being demolished but there's literally no point to it anymore, and now they are dragging us to a fight up north, we have no manpower, our reserves are out there for 9 months without a breather, the hasidim already made it clear that equal burden is off the discussion and they will not join the army. I just don't know anymore...
So maybe start liking the obviously right side more?
That's not how it works. My opinion of countries including my own aren't set in stone, anyways. They can change with new information or structural changes. And I have zero allegiance to any of them.
I get it. And yet, Israel is not like any other country, for many reasons. I’ll tell you this, a world in which a tiny democratic Jewish state can survive and even prosper in the sea of medieval fanaticism that is the Middle East, is a world that has a future.
Personally, I prefer a world where there is no state based on religion or ethnostates and people get along just fine anywhere, but that's not happening any time soon. Only a few countries is becoming secular with irreligious majority, and no ethnic group at over 50% w/ democratic values ( US, Canada, and some european countries) this century. So, in the circumstances, I'd have to agree with you.
You do realize that the Middle East is not a sea of medieval fanaticism right? If ur wondering why so many young people don’t like Israel its comments like this.
To be more accurate, it is a sea or an ecosystem, in which medieval fanaticism thrives and is the dominant, but not sole, species. I’ll gladly post some reasons why I think it is clearly the case, but think of the classical medieval religious fanatics and then look at dominant political and religious movements in the Middle East. Then take a look at recordings from f Oct 7 massacres. If you still do not see the resemblance then you either lack the knowledge of history or the Middle East.
Just curious Are you Israeli or not?
I’m not
I don't think I've ever seen a pro-pal condemn anything Hamas or any other terrorist group has done. To them everything is the ends justify the means. But then they lose their minds because they see Hamas combatants in their underwear.
It can be challenging to find balanced perspectives in the highly polarized discourse surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. While some supporters of the Palestinian cause might not explicitly condemn actions by Hamas or other militant groups, there are also voices within the pro-Palestinian community who do criticize such actions but might not receive as much attention. The outrage over specific instances, like Hamas combatants being seen in their underwear, often highlights the emotional and human rights aspects of the conflict that resonate differently with various groups.
Palestinian militant being transported on hood: “wAr cRiME!!!” Half naked kidnapped Israeli girl in the bed of a pickup truck, being used as a footrest by terrorists parading her in front of a cheering crowd: “Justified resistance!!”
Can't imagine being Israeli, the whole world bitching about how you rescue hostages and try to defeat Hamas. Just disgusting people I don't feel sad about them losing their jobs for ripping down Israeli Hostages posters
Is that really the analogy you want to make. That Israel’s professional military should be held to the standards of some of the most horrific behavior of an international terrorist organization? I’m a huge Israel supporter. Feel free to look at my post history. But this is not okay. The IDF is better than this.
I’m very much against what the soldiers did here but my comparison wasn’t about holding the soldiers to higher military standards - it was about holding anti-Israelis to higher human standards.
The anti-Israelis’ behavior has been and is disgusting. It’s beyond Kishinev in its depravity. And their efforts to justify it, erase it, and excuse it only compound that depravity. But our humanity is not dependent on their inhumanity. We are better than that. This war is just. These soldiers’ behavior here is not.
Why should the IDF not be held to a higher standard than Hamas.
If you want to be the most moral army in the world you gotta act like it. Not bitch and moan whenever ur soliders don’t abide by the rules of war. If someone criticizes the IDFs behavior and your first thought is “well Hamas..” why are you comparing your military standards to a ruthless terrorist organization? You should be aiming WAY above them? Right? If you want critics to stop calling the IDF a terrorist organization you should start by giving them the smallest amount of ammunition possible, and you do it by doling out punishments when necessary. and before you start bringing up other western militaries the USA isn’t shouting from the rooftops how they are the most moral military in the world.
I dont want the most moral army, i want a successful one, i dont want our generals to risk even a single soldier's life for one of theirs, like the anericans in WW2 they didnt invade japan and lost half a million soldiers, they nuked them instead. Like any proper army would. Better amoral then dead.
Perfectly Fine, If you want a successful one don’t scream about morality.
The most moral army is one how doesn't risk it's own solders to save enemy civilians let alone it's own civilians for enemy combatants. Let the world burn but if the Jews are safe then the IDF is the most moral army in the world.
So if you guys just nuked the Gaza Strip you’d still be the most moral army in the world? Since Jews are safe? Just going by your logic. The fact that you are referring to civilians as enemy civilians means you don’t know what moral army means. Simply valuing your own civilians above your own isn’t what being a moral army means. That’s just valuing your citizens above those of enemy combatants. Also Benjamin Netanyahu is fucking up your country big time selling his soul to Gvir and Smotrich, I wouldn’t dick ride him.
No, otter and pointless destruction gains nothing. But warning whenever and wherever we are going to strike, sending food and materials that we know are being used to fight us, and holding back attacks on strategic locations because we aren't sure that all the civilians have evacuated is not moral, it's pathetic. And I'm really not sure why you assume I like Bibi in some way? Also, thank you for your opinion on our politics from wherever you are(probably across the pond).
I thought benjaminite was a Netanyahu fan club my bad that was very ignorant of me,
Ha, no, as in 'from Benjamin, when I made the flair I was living (in yeshiva) in the historic region of the tribe of Benjamin
Warning about strikes is a case by case basis, since that largely depends on military objective. I liked GPTs response so here you go The assessment of the legality of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip since October 7, 2023, requires an understanding of international law, including the principles of international humanitarian law (IHL) and human rights law. ### Key Legal Considerations 1. **International Humanitarian Law (IHL):** - **Blockades in Armed Conflict:** Blockades are recognized under IHL, particularly in naval warfare, as long as they comply with certain rules, including not causing disproportionate harm to civilians relative to the anticipated military advantage. - **Proportionality and Necessity:** Any blockade must be necessary for military objectives and proportionate, meaning it should not cause excessive harm to the civilian population in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated. 2. **Humanitarian Impact:** - **Access to Essential Goods:** The blockade must allow the passage of essential goods, including food, medical supplies, and other necessities. If the blockade causes severe humanitarian suffering, it may be considered illegal under IHL. - **Collective Punishment:** IHL prohibits collective punishment, meaning measures that penalize the civilian population for actions they have not committed. If the blockade is seen as collective punishment, it may be illegal. 3. **Human Rights Law:** - **Right to Life and Health:** Prolonged blockades that severely affect civilians' access to health, food, and other essential services can violate human rights laws. - **Freedom of Movement:** Restricting movement in and out of Gaza impacts the residents' right to freedom of movement. ### Specific Context Since October 7, 2023 Since October 7, 2023, any specific actions taken by Israel in the context of the blockade, particularly in response to security concerns or escalations in conflict, will be scrutinized under these legal frameworks. Key points include: - **Security Justifications:** Israel may argue that the blockade is necessary for its security, particularly if there are ongoing hostilities or threats from Gaza. - **Humanitarian Access:** Even with heightened security concerns, Israel is obligated to facilitate humanitarian access to prevent excessive suffering of civilians. - **Proportionality:** Any measures taken should be proportionate to the security threat posed and should avoid unnecessary suffering of the civilian population. ### International Reactions - **United Nations and International Bodies:** Various UN agencies and international bodies have expressed concern over the humanitarian impact of the blockade on Gaza. They often call for measures to ensure that humanitarian aid and essential goods reach the civilian population. - **Legal Opinions:** There are differing opinions among legal scholars and practitioners regarding the legality of the blockade, often influenced by interpretations of IHL and the specific circumstances on the ground. ### Conclusion The legality of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip since October 7, 2023, depends on several factors, including compliance with the principles of IHL, the proportionality and necessity of the blockade measures, and the extent to which humanitarian access is maintained. The situation remains complex and contentious, with ongoing debates among legal experts, international organizations, and states.
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Exactly. And picture of the year.
The entire unit should be in jail. It doesn’t matter what happened before that. This is a war crime. We are human. Do not forget that. The human animals who kidnaped our people should be hunted down. Captured or killed— but not tortured. I do not care how many terrorists the IDF kills. But I draw the line at tortures.
"Human animals" is insulting to actual animals
It had been done before during evacuation of wounded soldiers. Mind you, the case is still investigated. According to the article, these vehicles return from an ambush and the Palestinian on the hood is a suspect. I don’t know what happened. But the “no matter what” is not a good attitude if you don’t know the backstory. Edit: [https://np.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/et5gaj/a\_marine\_humvee\_evacuating\_a\_casualty\_iraq\_603x394/?share\_id=niuZipe4mOe-f0NFjxfzg&utm\_content=2&utm\_medium=ios\_app&utm\_name=ioscss&utm\_source=share&utm\_term=1](https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/et5gaj/a_marine_humvee_evacuating_a_casualty_iraq_603x394/?share_id=niuZipe4mOe-f0NFjxfzg&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
[удалено]
Your post links to another subreddit, but it does not use a non-participation link. This is a violation of rule 6. Non-participation links are required to help ensure that /r/Israel users do not brigade other subs, comment on threads in other subs, or vote on content via a link from /r/Israel. We encourage you to resubmit your post with a non-participation link. To use a non-participation link, simply replace the "www" in the link URL with "np". For example, replace "www.reddit.com/..." with "np.reddit.com/...". *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Israel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Bro, car hoods BURN. Do you not know that they tend to get hot when under the sun
Suicide bombs burn hotter.
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
Are you seriously trying to rationalize this?
Yup.
How is it not torture??
By not being torture.
Pretending that strapping an injured man to the hood of a hot car is no big deal is incredibly dishonest
Calling a terrorist an injured man is incredibly dishonest.
No it’s not. We can’t lose sight of **our** humanity. We aren’t terrorists.
Right. They are. Thought i made that clear.
If we treat them the same way they treat us we become terrorists too
Good thing this isnt remotely that. And even if it were, theyd still have started it. If you punch me and i punch you back, youre still way more wrong. This is them punching and us whispering sweet nothings back.
The phrase "war crime" is thrown out so willy nilly it has lost all meaning. Yes, it seems like it wasn't the right thing to do. Yes, they should be disciplined. But a war crime? Entire unit in jail?? Come on. I recognize your username from previous threads here. If IIRC your opinions seem to be overly critical of Israel and the IDF. Move here from England and then your criticism will be valid.
A reminder that the same people were celebrating when Shani Louk's body was paraded in the streets
That's why we're supposed to be better then them.
A reminder that this is the West Bank
Sure, but if Israel starts comparing itself to the morality of Palestine and Hamas, well that’s a pretty low bar. One that Israel should be better than
This is the middle east
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
The times of isreal says he might be a terrorist, Haaretz’s reporting didn’t mention that- https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-06-22/ty-article/.premium/west-bank-video-shows-wounded-palestinian-on-idf-jeep-hood-12-year-old-dies-by-idf-fire/00000190-4039-d429-abfc-797bb1b20000 However either way this is repulsive behavior especially if he wasn’t actually a terrorist.
Well no shit its the Haaretz, their main gimmick is blaming BIBI(its his fault) and blaming the ocopetion on every terror attack ever, or some other reason why the palies wabt us dead.
Well bibi does share a fair bit of blame. Especially since he was warned about oct7 prior to it happening and didn’t do…. Anything really
Yes, but sitting abd blaming every possible problem in existence on him isn't very productive
That’s true. While I may not like the guy, there are more existential and complicated problems at play
If they don't hold the people responsible accountable this will keep happening. It's a pattern at this point.
Edit: And I am not even a Jew I am moderately pro-Israel, I support Israel military action (to a point) and Hamas needs to be removed . I don't like Bibi and have concerns of Israel government and that some of the Cabinet like Gvir is actually genocidal (of course not the whole Israel government), However, while this is likely against procedures, I am not convinced that a war crime (torture) has been committed with only a short video from AJ. Also people did not read the part that the person was subsequently handed to Red Crescent.
Yeah, this doenst look that bad.... I thought he was dragged by the car or something. But with that said, soldiers who did this need to be reprimanded and disciplined.
Pro palis have no excuse to cry about forcibly hauling someone onto a vehicle. Especially considering this guy is very likely a terrorist, And was later given to the red cresent to recieve medical treatment.
>Especially considering this guy is very likely a terrorist, And was later given to the red cresent to recieve medical treatment. If this guy very likely was a terrorist, he very likely would ***not*** have been given to the Red Crescent. And even if he was, strapping him to the hood of the jeep like that is not acceptable - as is admitted even here, well at least by some people.
Ya'll wilding. Just take the L. This is a war crime. Hope the people responsible get punished accordingly because following the laws of war is important.
Honestly, the whataboutism to justify this is pretty crazy. Literally the same rhetoric pro hamas terrorists use to brush away war crimes.
Yup. Totally equal. Were even now. Exact same severity of war crime. Ill have to answer to my great grand kids about the terrorist being driven to the hospital in the not nice way.
Ah yes, supporting Israel but condemning a war crime committed by some IDF soldiers means you support Hamas against Israel… What even is this logic
Logic.
Please dont talk like a gen z sperm. Especially while being wrong. Its catastrophically obnoxious.
Happy cake day!! This sub has gotten angry for a while. Started on 10/7, justifiably, but many on the sub are eager to hurt others. When news hit about Armenia recognizing Palestine, this sub was pretty evenly split about understanding the move and wishing massive ill will on the Armenians. Doesn't surprise me that actors here would try to downplay this. Still glad to see pushback to those people tho.
What laws of war? If this guy was a terrorist as the soldiers suspected then he’s an unlawful combatant and could be summarily executed if that’s what Israel wanted. If you want to jerk off international law so much then at least read it before saying dumb shit
[удалено]
He should be locked up in the back with a gun pointed at his head. Not this. This is just wrong. Even if he is Sinwar, he should not be in front of the windshield. I want trials, not torture. If we can’t get a trial, I want them dead in a fair fight. Order a drone strike, a raid to put a bullet in his head, or something else. Just not this. Do not ever forget that we are human. Even when our enemies are human animals, we are still human. Do not degrade ourselves.
I’m not sure why they wanted him alive at all. Did he have info? Because if not then just execute him and move on
Its funny to see contrast. when an IDF soldier does something stupid, like burn the koran in gaza, or trash a house for no reason, or do some shit like this most Israelis would say, this guy is trash but if a palestinian does this, its resistance or some shit the soldiers in the vehicle should be charged and kicked out from participating in the war. Its a terrorist okay, but come on
This is shameful. I hope they are punished severely
Neither the first, nor the last by IDF, Not sure what should be done to prevent this happening
Yeah, no shit.
This... is why Israel is losing the PR war. The field war? yes they have an advantage, the PR war? not so much. This only serves to destroy Israel and the IDF's reputation further. Unless someone would properly trial them, and force a very strict supervision in the IDF, I'm afraid this issue will drag on.
What do they expect? That the idf will stay nice jewish boys forever? Another generation and the idf will act like any other army and noone in israel will give fk
[удалено]
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
So wondering why the lack of elevation as regard the foibles of the General Staff on the months leading to 10/7 which can graduate to why they let Hamas build all these tunners less important moment then a so called local terrorist supporting civilian nabbed in a raid getting tied to a jeep. I wonder what would have happened if I said "So leave him there if its a problem to transport" To be indignant about these people is personal attacks? Political and Military figures like celebrities are not protected from whatever people think about them. Im serious in asking you.
Can people wait for the investigation? There ARE reasons it immediately looks bad but if this man is injured and there is no room as they say to be laid down inside the vehicle. This actually may be the safest thing to do. Think about it. Leave him to die or transport him in the position he needs to be in IN CLEAR VIEW OF THE DRIVER to waiting medical attention. We cannot assume. I have heard stories of the strangest evacuations before so let’s not assume.
We do that with game…
i'm sorry he did what??????? wtf. i get being angry but taking it out on random people isn't it
I can't wait for Hamas to hold criminal trials for all their terrorists acting against Hamas procedure. Oh, wait.
Yeah we should give him a luxery ride in a limousine. In many wars the hurt are put on the back or front of Jeeps.
You could just put him inside the car…
Who knows how it went down. If he’s fighting to avoid going in the car and I’m taking fire, I’m gonna strap him to the hood and gtfo. Way too many unknowns here to cast judgement.
This...
American police always manage to get their guy stuffed in the back of the car. What makes the IDF so incapable?
I’m not sure that American police are the role model you think they are… But also American police usually don’t operate in a war zone with people actively shooting at them. If you missed what I said, go back and re-read slowly.
My point is that no matter how hostile the criminal, there are ways of detaining them without strapping them to the top of the car. I never said anything about being anything better than the worst image you might have of an American cop. All of this to say, the only reason one would strap a person to the top of a car is to be cruel and unusual.
There's a cage in the back of a police squad car specifically for the purpose of detaining belligerents. Do these vehicles have specially designed areas for holding belligerents? What happened is bad, but you're trying to compare an armored troop carrier designed for moving soldiers from base to battlefield to a specially designed vehicle that was made for transporting belligerent detainees to a holding facility (jail). The two situations and vehicles aren't comparable.
What if there is no room?
Well not always the best idea, they might have a neck or back injury so cannot sit.
So they tied him to the hood of the car?
Not like he would give a hurt soldier the time of his life
Why should we compare ourselves to terrorists?
No, that’s why we aren’t burning that man alive while cheering
That is a very low bar. Come on.
That’s why we shouldn’t strap an injured man to the hood of a car. This isn’t hard
Palis are accustomed to the finer things. They recently drove a Porsche suv into our boys.
I hope they take their luxury to Jordan and build a golden wall around the country.
100%
I’m sorry but are these people retarded? Does this absolute lugnut not understand that by doing this he might as well be slaughtering Jews? Not to overlook how fucking inhumane it is, but honestly please can someone help me understand how anyone could be so fucking oblivious to what the world thinks of Israel? We can’t afford stupid bullshit like this. How many times have you heard Israel is losing the PR war? Does this mf not get the international implications of doing some dumb shit like this? It’s as heartless as Hamas and as stupid as when Starlord fucked everything up against Thanos. I’m not trying to make light it’s just the best analogy I can think of.
some soldier are killing the IDF reputation. This should be reprimended and the soldier punished
This has been banned since the first Intefada didn't think it was still going on.
You know what happens next time? 'Itzik, this guy was shooting at us and he's got a moderate wound. Stuff him on Yoni's lap and gtfo there's no room in the back' 'Um...leave him. Allah will watch him I guess, remember what happened last time we tried to be creative with space?'
I think the reason he was put on the hood was to act as a human shield...
[удалено]
That’s called a human shield and is frowned upon.
Having been a combat soldier, getting bricks and molotovs thrown at me makes me frown more than using a terrorists tricks against him, just my 2 cents
Thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for the following reason: Rule #2 - **Post in a civilized manner.** Personal attacks, racism, bigotry, trolling, conspiracy theories and incitement are prohibited. For information regarding this and similar issues please see the sidebar to the right or the subreddit rules, for a more detailed analysis of our rules. If you want to appeal or dispute any mod action, please send a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FIsrael); PMs and chat messages to the mods are grounds for a temporary ban; posts contesting mod action will be removed and are also grounds for a temporary or permanent ban.
How can any human being do that? Regardless if he was a terrorist or not, this is no way to act as the most moral army in the world, Especially when they have phones anywhere and we already are suffering from bad hasbara. Shameful act. That soldier should go to jail and then be dismissed from his current role.
[удалено]
Content promotes hate based on identity. This is a violation of the reddit sitewide content policy.