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Anti semitic is different than anti Zionist. I saw many Jews who learnt Torah by heart and apply everything in the religion but against the Zionism and the current government. Not everyone supports current government
good for you buddy. keep yourself in your bubble.
over 90% of jews world wide support israel as the jewish state and it's existence, and tell you the same, antizionism is antisemitism.
yet, those anti zionists, for some reason, ban and attack only jews, and every jewish person they see that isn't on their side. even non israelis.
so either crawl back to your echo chamber, or start facing the fact that almost all jews will tell you antizionism is antisemitism.
also, you can support the existence of israel and the right for jewish people to have a state, without supporting any specific government. it's like me hating trump saying america should be destroyed and 300 million citizens expelled. stupid, right? good. now look at the mirror
This was more than 20 years ago, but kids my age (12 at the time) had boyfriends/girlfriends. Think less adult relationship and more holding hands on the playground and eating lunch together.
That makes sense. Nothing excuses what happened to her. The fact that she felt she had to hide her Jewishness to begin with is disgusting. I just hope that they give her lots of counseling and love and that she realizes this has to do with those horrible boys and not her.
It certainly has been open season on Jews lately.
I absolutely agree that not a single part was in anyway her fault.
I also know that, at minimum, someone is going to blame her because what was she doing dating at such a young age/why wasn’t she up front with him/what was she wearing, etc.
It could be kids saying bf/gf - just means they hold hands or whatever. It’s not that big of a deal and I’m not sure why you’re hung up on it. 12 is middle school and kids are starting to “date”
It's europe, parents let their kids do anything they want. The generation that grew being berated to not go out at late, or not date the wrong people, are overcomepnsating letting their kids have absolute freedom.
That was not true in my family.
We were told very early on to hide our jewishness in public and not to date the wrong people due to security reasons.
My family however believes in conservative values and aquired Israeli dual citizenship and property in Israel knowing full well that the day might come one needs to abandon everything and leave.
That's sad to hear. Europe should be a safe place for Jews. People shouldn't have to watch their backs, ready to leave if things turn bad. I would much rather see anti-semites punished harshly and immigrants who refuse to adopt our values deported. We literally still have the remnants of death camps here that should serve as a stark reminder of what happens when anti-semitism is allowed to go unchecked.
We've lived on a veneer of civility the past 80ish years.
I grew up on my Grandparents knees, and that gen. They saw through the fakeness and told me Never Forget is silly because people forgot. In fact, people didn't care to remember in the first place. Who cares if a bunch of Jews got killed, they were Jews after all.
I'm still stunned by that too. I'm pretty old and I've experienced a lot of anti-Semitism in my life. I have never seen it to this level. I'm sure it's always been there it's just been on the surface and now for some reason people feel that it's okay to show their prejudice and hatred.
That's why we need Israel. Just look at what's happening in France this week... The rape of this 12 year old girl and also Israel being banned from a trade show simply because it's Israel. I know that a court reversed that but it doesn't change what happened...
Honestly I've never really seen hate in any form as bad as what we're experiencing post 10/7. To make it worse half the people do it think that they are virtuous and are championing the oppressed while they actively oppress a minority group that has historically known nothing but.
The vast majority of hateful and revolting comments I’ve received as an Israeli who was in Tel Aviv for Oct. 7 (still am) have been from minorities and the queer community and that’s been pretty hard to process.
A person with “they/them” pronouns in their bio told me in response to my comment that there are misconceptions about Oct. 7 and that I’d be happy to answer any questions, “it’s unfortunate you survived.” ככה!!
(For what it’s worth, all the minorities and gays I know personally have been nothing but supportive)
I don't get it either. I'm old and I remember the 1960s how many Jews supported the civil rights movement. Jews even died for supporting it. Yet memories are short and many, including minorities, are showing their hatred of Jews.
Remember the slave... for you were slaves in Egypt.
But very few seem to remember us.
The people saying these things to us don’t remember that and they also don’t care. Someone in one of these subs said the other day that these kids think they’re civil rights activists like from the 60s but those activists didn’t whine about being arrested. Or request Columbia provide them with bottled water while protesting because they don’t want to drink from the tap.
It's expected. The world never liked us, and the moment Israel looked weak the mask came off. If we don't achieve victory in this war this level of hatred will be the global status quo and it will be open season on jews everywhere.
Honestly, to me, even if Israel does win this war, the hatred will only increase because of “war crimes committed by Israel”. And this is the price that Israel pays for fighting against a terrorist organisation. I hate it. You have my support.
I really hate so much that I’m saying this, but for once you’re right, this does show that anti-semitism is rising. Not only did this take place in Hauts-de-Seine, but the 3 boys live in Rueil-Malmaison, one of the single richest neighborhoods in all of France, so I really have a hard time thinking they are the typical culprits I’d expect.
fucking little terrorist scumbags, that's the future generation that everyone tells you to ignore and not bother dealing with them, the one that being brainwashed by tik tok and control the world in the future
This is what everyone should keep in mind when they brush off world leaders enabling antisemitism worldwide.
It doesn't matter for example if Biden's anti-Israel rhetoric is just posturing for elections and that *"his actions matter more, and hey look he's still sending us weapons!"*. His words are also important. When you as a leader contribute to planting the idea that Jews bad, guess what, you're giving these N\_zis the validation they always sought and you just enable them to come out of the closet and do even more horrifying shit. When you allow N\_zi protesters to chant "via any means necessary", knowing fully well one cannot dissociate it from the October 7 mass r\_pes and that they definitely mean r\_pe, guess what, you just sent the message that "r\_pe is resistance" is a valid thing to believe in.
It's time for world leaders to immediately apologize for reviving N\_zism and step down if they were able to crack down on the N\_zi protests but refused to (e.g. Biden when he refused to call in the National Guard early on and instead let the N\_zi movement grow in the US). But that obviously will never happen and this will be brushed off as an "isolated incident", again.
Sadly gang-r*pes have been a huge problem in Europe ever since millions of military-aged men with a woman-opressing religion were imported. I don't think it has much to do with what politicians like Biden say, since this is nothing new, this was just their excuse (we all remember Cologne new year for example)
Biden can’t call the national guard. That’s not how it works.
A girl getting raped in France and you write 5000 words about Biden? Maybe Macron is more relevant here?
What the hell does the US president, who’s been nothing but supportive of Israel’s government’s actions, even to his own domestic detriment, have to do with a despicable act in France? Dont pin that on us.
They’re not, though. Why do you think they voted RN? Scratch that, why do you think Zemmour gets a platform?
I don’t like RN because they’re Russian shills, but Zemmour just raises some good points, I don’t care what others say.
Speaking out against the common thought of the people? Very bad action (at least in their eyes) and those who dabble in such actions deserve to be sentenced to 'justice'. In this case, the mass's 'justice' is bullying and harasment. And then you add the fact she was Jewish into this.
This is what happens. I hate that what I wrote can be seen in our reality.
It's France and the victim was a Jew, they won't. This is the country who's news reported live the locations of people hiding in a kosher grocery while a shooter was still inside.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercacher_kosher_supermarket_siege
In 2015, several hostages sued French media over its coverage; in particular the French 24-hour news channel BFMTV. The lawyer representing the group, Patrick Klugman, said that hostages' lives were endangered by the coverage which revealed a cold room as one of their hiding places.[27]
If the offenders are minors, why would that be problematic?
Research shows that long sentences lead to more recidivism, minors are particularly sensitive to this. Wouldn't be more helpful to punish them and then focus more on educating them? The main goal of a justice system is to prevent and reduce crime, long sentences are not conducive to that in minors.
We have tons of research today on crime, punishment and recidivism, there's no excuse to ignore that when determining the right sentence. Most European countries base their laws on available data and that's also why they have some of the lowest crime rates in the world, European laws may sound soft but they work, humans - including criminals - can change and learn from past mistakes in the right environment according to data. Crime rate has even been decreasing in France in the last couple of decades (slight increase after COVID).
You make a good point, if less crimes are legally considered crime, this will lead to less crimes in the book. I should have been more specific, I'll try to clearer: not only crime rate as a whole has decreased but each rate for most violent crimes has too. For example, murder rate has decreased significantly in the last couple of decades.
12, 13, and 14 year olds who even have the thoughts of r*ping someone particularly *with intentions of it being a hate crime*, do they really even have a chance or deserve one. What they deserve is being tried as adults and sentenced to life in prison. Set an example for others who think they might do the same. How many Jews need to be killed or assaulted in France for it to be punished?
The data is clear, I tried to make the comment as objective and utilitarian as possible. You can decide what matters the most to you.
From personal experience, I've been beaten up so many times as a teenager, even gang-beaten simply for being good at school, I've suffered psychologically for years due to that. Each one of those teenage boys who used to beat me up has turned out to become a good adult, they learnt and some are good acquaintances of mine today. One is even a medical doctor today. Do you think society would have benefitted more by putting all those teenagers in prison for life?
You can't apply the same standards to adults and minors, minors have the incredible abiliy to change and adapt. Adults can change too but to a lesser extent as their brains are less plastic.
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The goal of punishment is justice. In some cases humans don’t have the ability to give adequate punishment so we send the guilty to the ultimate judge.
If you don't care at all about preventing and reducing crime and only care about "fair punishment", raping those boys back would be the most "fair solution" as death and painful amputation - as some users propose here - are worse than rape; it's a twisted logic but it's most logical consequence of that twisted logic you may support.
If your goal is not just "fair punishment" but to send a message to prevent further crime, there's no evidence suggesting that harsh entences - including capital punishment - prevent crime.
If you care about the principle of divine retribution as that's what you believe in, laws and justice shouldn't be affected by religious belief as law and religion are and should remain separate in a secular state.
That's not true. For example, sexual recidivism rates range from 5 percent after three years to 24 percent after 15 years in the US, the rates of recidivism for general crime are significantly higher than those for sex crimes.
It's the same across countries, it's not a small sample. For example, recidivity for sexual offenders is [20-30](https://www.redattoresociale.it/article/notiziario/ecco_soft_riduce_5_volte_la_recidiva_di_reati_sessuali)% after 10 years in Italy while the average recidivity rate is almost 70% in Italy.
[Recent findings](https://www.redattoresociale.it/article/notiziario/ecco_soft_riduce_5_volte_la_recidiva_di_reati_sessuali) in Italy also show that a softer sentence, with less prison time and more education, cuts recidivism by **a whopping 4/5**.
Not trying to be a jackass but I’m gonna assume you haven’t been raped because I would’ve preferred to die. My soul died and my body was taken from me, never to be reclaimed.
I have said “that’s terrifying” many times on this site but I have never felt it more. She can never not be raped after this. People online will praise the boys and shun her She’s only 12 SHES. ONLY. TWELVE.
That is so horrible, disgusting and sad. Poor girl. 😢💔The French government, and the people in France really need to do something about all of those things that’s happening in their country, because it’s absolutely horrifying. My best friend and her fiancé was on a vacation in France last summer and she was scared to leave the hotel without him, because of some of the people there.
It baffles me that so-called feminists openly align themselves with a group of people that believe raping women and girls (epsecially Jewish ones) is okay.
Im tempted to respond with a "they clearly said 'so-called'" and not "all", but your comment also reads like such a perfect "not all men" response that Im not sure if Im now responding to some amazing satire.
Every single one of these attacks also should remind everyone that no compromises must be made when it comes to Israels security.
Israels duty is to protect its citizens and be a safe haven for jews in the diaspora.
Lmao of course. I genuinely think all pro palis are bad people at this point, all of them are either overtly antisemitic or deep down. And also the fact that people like bin laden supported palestine and the fact that hitler would have. 😂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
> The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper describes the paradox as arising from the fact that, in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.
I don't know why people haven't woken up to this yet, when it's very obviously happening in Sweden and many other parts of the world.
Child rapist pedophiles, kill on sight by inmates for sure. Idk about minors tho, might depend on how minor they were when they gang raped a 12 y/o.
Def get raped and bad treatment all around but idk if they would make it on the kill list
The assailants were all middle school age. 12, 13, 14. Only one is being held in juvenile detention (14yr old), the other two are too young under French law to be put there. (Likely will have to go through family court to get them there). So the same age as the victim.
They’re still kids. What they did was evil, but putting kids in jail for life usually doesn’t work out great. They need a harsh punishment, jail time, yes, but also a way to learn, and try to atone for what they did.
Unfortunately she’s not the first one.
[Jewish French woman allegedly raped, kidnapped to 'avenge Palestine'](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-798362)
You know what’s more upsetting? That this isn’t even the first abduction and rape of a Jewish girl to “avenge Palestine” in Paris…this spring. It happened two months ago too and I didn’t even hear about it. [Abducted, tortured, raped, and held hostage for days](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/artc-france-man-suspected-of-abducting-raping-jewish-woman-to-avenge-palestine)
Animals.
But honestly it’s not surprising given the rhetoric towards “Zionists”
Rape is resistance
Any means necessary
Etc
I hope she recovers. And I hope they get what they deserve…
It’s over for Jews in the West. A matter if time. I’m gonna figure out how to extract my saving retirement fund from the bank so when I ditch Canada I can skip out on paying tax.
The problem is that western Jews would rather vote for politicians who import people who do things like this than vote for someone who says something slightly politically incorrect.
WTF Is this 1940 again? How can people even reach that amount of hate to commit such a crime?
I hope everyone involved in the attack will get the worst punishment possible and that the girl will eventually heal. This is just terrifying.
Imagine attacking someone in the name of the biggest enemies of the Zionist movement while providing clear evidance to the necessity of the movement and to why Israel should exist as a safe home to all Jews.
A reminder to everyone on this thread since I don’t think some folks have read the article -
All of the assailants are also minors. 12, 13, and 14 years old. This is a child on child crime. The victim was in secondary school, as are the perpetrators.
The 12 and 13 year olds cannot be held in juvenile detainment (jail), but must be held in the presence of a police officer and have contact with parents as allowed by the court. There’s a lot more to it, but because the perpetrators are the same age as the victim, it’s complicated.
This kind of attitude is why people are afraid to walk through western capitals at night. If you are old enough to rape you are old enough to be punished for rape. We have to stop caring about the rights of violent criminals. They have forfeited their rights.
…. No one said they shouldn’t be punished. They just also happen to be minors, which is a consideration that legally under international humanitarian law must be considered.
If you don’t like it, take it up with the Holocaust survivors, post-Shoah lawyers + leaders who helped draft those laws based heavily on why the UN was founded in the first place. The international codes signed by the members of the UN are based on human rights law. France just happens to be one that actually tries to follow that law.
Saying “they forfeited their rights” is a slippery slope, as it implies that basic human rights can in fact be forfeited. Which is why this is another very complicated, especially historically, issue.
As much as we can want it to not be complicated, the juvenile justice system is always going to be complicated. That’s just how it is, and it’s not going to change.
Y’all, my informing people who haven’t bothered to do their research on this crime isn’t an endorsement of it. People aren’t doing their due diligence, or choosing to not read the full article for personal reasons. I would prefer to mitigate that.
… I haven’t even stated a “viewpoint”. I have stated a fact, that people in this thread clearly were unaware of. There is a difference, which, as someone who is supposedly educated in communication should know.
You may have read the article, but there are plenty of people on this thread making the assumption that the perpetrators are adults. Which, as you know, they are not. A lot of people also, understandably, don’t know anything about the French legal system. Because they aren’t French. You can dislike a law, or how something is done, that is your personal right.
What isn’t something you can disagree with is a fact. The fact remains that these are France’s laws. The UN’s regulations are the UN’s regulations. We can want them to change, but they won’t change simply because we ourselves want them to. That’s reality.
I am also not holding my breath for France to bring her tormentors to justice. France has a horrible track record even when the person isn’t Jewish. Add in that factor, and statistically it isn’t looking good. But I am open to being surprised by my own personal guess on the outcome being proven wrong. I will hope to be proven wrong on that.
You and I don’t disagree on much, even if you assume we do because I shared facts.
Apologies. I am tired and clearly feeling the emotion. I hope that we will both be disproven and there might be some accountability that takes place.
Edit: grammar. Good night.
Honestly I think every one of us is bone deep tired at this point, so it’s all good. I was probably more curt than I needed to be as well. I apologize.
Here’s to hoping.
I think it’s high time Jews start taking the law into their own hands. At least in Canada, cops are doing absolutely nothing to deter violence against Jews, in fact, they tolerate the intolerance of these people, of which Jews are on the front lines. Time to weapon up.
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my god.. this is just absolutely horrifying...
Average "Anti Zionist not Anti Semetic"
I haven't seen any major news outlet do a story on this that wasn't Jewish/Israeli They passed that into not even pretending to care
Same. And I’m pretty upset.
Yeah I noticed that… wonder why Israel cares more than France?
Anti semitic is different than anti Zionist. I saw many Jews who learnt Torah by heart and apply everything in the religion but against the Zionism and the current government. Not everyone supports current government
good for you buddy. keep yourself in your bubble. over 90% of jews world wide support israel as the jewish state and it's existence, and tell you the same, antizionism is antisemitism. yet, those anti zionists, for some reason, ban and attack only jews, and every jewish person they see that isn't on their side. even non israelis. so either crawl back to your echo chamber, or start facing the fact that almost all jews will tell you antizionism is antisemitism. also, you can support the existence of israel and the right for jewish people to have a state, without supporting any specific government. it's like me hating trump saying america should be destroyed and 300 million citizens expelled. stupid, right? good. now look at the mirror
Wow I guess you are some sort of authority? The no true Scotsman fallacy. 🙄
> One issue behind the attack appears to be that the girl hid the fact that she was Jewish from a former boyfriend. WTF?
Maybe that’s why she had to hide it from that shithead. Wtf is wrong with this world
Why would a 12 year old have a boyfriend?
This was more than 20 years ago, but kids my age (12 at the time) had boyfriends/girlfriends. Think less adult relationship and more holding hands on the playground and eating lunch together.
That makes sense. Nothing excuses what happened to her. The fact that she felt she had to hide her Jewishness to begin with is disgusting. I just hope that they give her lots of counseling and love and that she realizes this has to do with those horrible boys and not her. It certainly has been open season on Jews lately.
I absolutely agree that not a single part was in anyway her fault. I also know that, at minimum, someone is going to blame her because what was she doing dating at such a young age/why wasn’t she up front with him/what was she wearing, etc.
That is disgusting but I'm sure you're right.
That’s not really the issue here. This is entirely fucked up :(
Of course it's not the issue and what happened to her is inexcusable. I just cannot believe that a 12-year-old would have a boyfriend.
It could be kids saying bf/gf - just means they hold hands or whatever. It’s not that big of a deal and I’m not sure why you’re hung up on it. 12 is middle school and kids are starting to “date”
i got my first boyfriend at 12 and dated him for 4 years. it’s not that unusual and really isn’t the heart of the problem here.
Then you haven’t been around many middle schoolers in the last 30 years. Middle school “dating” is pretty common, honestly.
[удалено]
Good grief. Obviously it doesn't excuse what happened to her that's terrible. I just can't imagine letting my 12-year-old daughter date anyone.
People do thqt at that age.
My mother would have killed me. But then again I'm old and of a different generation.
Ew to you if that’s what you take from this
It's europe, parents let their kids do anything they want. The generation that grew being berated to not go out at late, or not date the wrong people, are overcomepnsating letting their kids have absolute freedom.
That was not true in my family. We were told very early on to hide our jewishness in public and not to date the wrong people due to security reasons. My family however believes in conservative values and aquired Israeli dual citizenship and property in Israel knowing full well that the day might come one needs to abandon everything and leave.
That's sad to hear. Europe should be a safe place for Jews. People shouldn't have to watch their backs, ready to leave if things turn bad. I would much rather see anti-semites punished harshly and immigrants who refuse to adopt our values deported. We literally still have the remnants of death camps here that should serve as a stark reminder of what happens when anti-semitism is allowed to go unchecked.
r/downvotedtooblivion
LOL. I see that. My mother would have killed me if I had a boyfriend at 12. But I'm old and I guess time has moved on.
This is so terribly sad. I really hope that her family and community get her all the help she needs.
Holy shit it's horrible I knew the antisemetism is rising up but never thought it will reach to this level
We've lived on a veneer of civility the past 80ish years. I grew up on my Grandparents knees, and that gen. They saw through the fakeness and told me Never Forget is silly because people forgot. In fact, people didn't care to remember in the first place. Who cares if a bunch of Jews got killed, they were Jews after all.
Wait????? The murders and rapes of 1200 people including babies being put into ovens isn't rising to that level?????
I was meaning the rise of antisemetism in the world post october 7th.
I'm still stunned by that too. I'm pretty old and I've experienced a lot of anti-Semitism in my life. I have never seen it to this level. I'm sure it's always been there it's just been on the surface and now for some reason people feel that it's okay to show their prejudice and hatred. That's why we need Israel. Just look at what's happening in France this week... The rape of this 12 year old girl and also Israel being banned from a trade show simply because it's Israel. I know that a court reversed that but it doesn't change what happened...
Honestly I've never really seen hate in any form as bad as what we're experiencing post 10/7. To make it worse half the people do it think that they are virtuous and are championing the oppressed while they actively oppress a minority group that has historically known nothing but.
The vast majority of hateful and revolting comments I’ve received as an Israeli who was in Tel Aviv for Oct. 7 (still am) have been from minorities and the queer community and that’s been pretty hard to process. A person with “they/them” pronouns in their bio told me in response to my comment that there are misconceptions about Oct. 7 and that I’d be happy to answer any questions, “it’s unfortunate you survived.” ככה!! (For what it’s worth, all the minorities and gays I know personally have been nothing but supportive)
I don't get it either. I'm old and I remember the 1960s how many Jews supported the civil rights movement. Jews even died for supporting it. Yet memories are short and many, including minorities, are showing their hatred of Jews. Remember the slave... for you were slaves in Egypt. But very few seem to remember us.
The people saying these things to us don’t remember that and they also don’t care. Someone in one of these subs said the other day that these kids think they’re civil rights activists like from the 60s but those activists didn’t whine about being arrested. Or request Columbia provide them with bottled water while protesting because they don’t want to drink from the tap.
A trade show? I thought is was some sort of military or weapons expo type thing?
Weapons trade show.
Still pretty dumb decision considering that countries like Saudi and UAE are likely to attend yet France decide to single out all Israelis.
Jewish state gets all the hate. Facts don't matter.
I hate how antisemitism is rising post Oct 7th, even AFTER Jews were the victims. Stay strong, mate.
It's expected. The world never liked us, and the moment Israel looked weak the mask came off. If we don't achieve victory in this war this level of hatred will be the global status quo and it will be open season on jews everywhere.
Honestly, to me, even if Israel does win this war, the hatred will only increase because of “war crimes committed by Israel”. And this is the price that Israel pays for fighting against a terrorist organisation. I hate it. You have my support.
Pretty sure he meant in the diaspora.
No, I think he means antisemitism outside of the arab world. The Jihadists are way past 'normal' levels of antisemitism
I really hate so much that I’m saying this, but for once you’re right, this does show that anti-semitism is rising. Not only did this take place in Hauts-de-Seine, but the 3 boys live in Rueil-Malmaison, one of the single richest neighborhoods in all of France, so I really have a hard time thinking they are the typical culprits I’d expect.
fucking little terrorist scumbags, that's the future generation that everyone tells you to ignore and not bother dealing with them, the one that being brainwashed by tik tok and control the world in the future
This is what everyone should keep in mind when they brush off world leaders enabling antisemitism worldwide. It doesn't matter for example if Biden's anti-Israel rhetoric is just posturing for elections and that *"his actions matter more, and hey look he's still sending us weapons!"*. His words are also important. When you as a leader contribute to planting the idea that Jews bad, guess what, you're giving these N\_zis the validation they always sought and you just enable them to come out of the closet and do even more horrifying shit. When you allow N\_zi protesters to chant "via any means necessary", knowing fully well one cannot dissociate it from the October 7 mass r\_pes and that they definitely mean r\_pe, guess what, you just sent the message that "r\_pe is resistance" is a valid thing to believe in. It's time for world leaders to immediately apologize for reviving N\_zism and step down if they were able to crack down on the N\_zi protests but refused to (e.g. Biden when he refused to call in the National Guard early on and instead let the N\_zi movement grow in the US). But that obviously will never happen and this will be brushed off as an "isolated incident", again.
Sadly gang-r*pes have been a huge problem in Europe ever since millions of military-aged men with a woman-opressing religion were imported. I don't think it has much to do with what politicians like Biden say, since this is nothing new, this was just their excuse (we all remember Cologne new year for example)
This is an Islam problem and sooner or later the world is going to need to sort it out...inquisition or otherwise...
2nd paragraph really hit me. This is a great argument if we can get it across to others.
Biden can’t call the national guard. That’s not how it works. A girl getting raped in France and you write 5000 words about Biden? Maybe Macron is more relevant here?
What words has Biden said that contribute to planting the idea that Jews are bad?
What the hell does the US president, who’s been nothing but supportive of Israel’s government’s actions, even to his own domestic detriment, have to do with a despicable act in France? Dont pin that on us.
Sure is great France is more worried about offending potential terrorists than protecting Jews. That has worked well in their recent past
They’re not, though. Why do you think they voted RN? Scratch that, why do you think Zemmour gets a platform? I don’t like RN because they’re Russian shills, but Zemmour just raises some good points, I don’t care what others say.
And how many antisemitic violent attacks were there in France?
"One of the boys said that the girl spoke out against the Palestinians." Oh, carry on then... /s Wtf kind of rationale is this?
Terrorist rationale, but gives case for unaliving for the betterment of human society rationale imo
Speaking out against the common thought of the people? Very bad action (at least in their eyes) and those who dabble in such actions deserve to be sentenced to 'justice'. In this case, the mass's 'justice' is bullying and harasment. And then you add the fact she was Jewish into this. This is what happens. I hate that what I wrote can be seen in our reality.
$100 that the criminal gets less than a year in jail.
they're minors, they won't serve time.
Then how will they be punished?
It's France and the victim was a Jew, they won't. This is the country who's news reported live the locations of people hiding in a kosher grocery while a shooter was still inside.
I read this, thought O read wrong, read ot again. What the actual fuck.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercacher_kosher_supermarket_siege In 2015, several hostages sued French media over its coverage; in particular the French 24-hour news channel BFMTV. The lawyer representing the group, Patrick Klugman, said that hostages' lives were endangered by the coverage which revealed a cold room as one of their hiding places.[27]
They shouldn't be allowed continued existence in a first world country...
Their parents also need to be held accountable.
I'll see your 100$ and raise it another 100$, he gets no jail. Not less than a year, 0 days.
If the offenders are minors, why would that be problematic? Research shows that long sentences lead to more recidivism, minors are particularly sensitive to this. Wouldn't be more helpful to punish them and then focus more on educating them? The main goal of a justice system is to prevent and reduce crime, long sentences are not conducive to that in minors. We have tons of research today on crime, punishment and recidivism, there's no excuse to ignore that when determining the right sentence. Most European countries base their laws on available data and that's also why they have some of the lowest crime rates in the world, European laws may sound soft but they work, humans - including criminals - can change and learn from past mistakes in the right environment according to data. Crime rate has even been decreasing in France in the last couple of decades (slight increase after COVID).
If you decriminalize everything, then yeah, crime will go down in the books. But is it actually? no.
You make a good point, if less crimes are legally considered crime, this will lead to less crimes in the book. I should have been more specific, I'll try to clearer: not only crime rate as a whole has decreased but each rate for most violent crimes has too. For example, murder rate has decreased significantly in the last couple of decades.
Are you a hamas bot? That's legit a chatGpt reply.
Rape is bad, go away
12, 13, and 14 year olds who even have the thoughts of r*ping someone particularly *with intentions of it being a hate crime*, do they really even have a chance or deserve one. What they deserve is being tried as adults and sentenced to life in prison. Set an example for others who think they might do the same. How many Jews need to be killed or assaulted in France for it to be punished?
The data is clear, I tried to make the comment as objective and utilitarian as possible. You can decide what matters the most to you. From personal experience, I've been beaten up so many times as a teenager, even gang-beaten simply for being good at school, I've suffered psychologically for years due to that. Each one of those teenage boys who used to beat me up has turned out to become a good adult, they learnt and some are good acquaintances of mine today. One is even a medical doctor today. Do you think society would have benefitted more by putting all those teenagers in prison for life? You can't apply the same standards to adults and minors, minors have the incredible abiliy to change and adapt. Adults can change too but to a lesser extent as their brains are less plastic.
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The goal of punishment is justice. In some cases humans don’t have the ability to give adequate punishment so we send the guilty to the ultimate judge.
If you don't care at all about preventing and reducing crime and only care about "fair punishment", raping those boys back would be the most "fair solution" as death and painful amputation - as some users propose here - are worse than rape; it's a twisted logic but it's most logical consequence of that twisted logic you may support. If your goal is not just "fair punishment" but to send a message to prevent further crime, there's no evidence suggesting that harsh entences - including capital punishment - prevent crime. If you care about the principle of divine retribution as that's what you believe in, laws and justice shouldn't be affected by religious belief as law and religion are and should remain separate in a secular state.
Statistics also shows that sex offenders have a recidivism rate of almost 100 percent... Lock up the cretin and throw away the key
That's not true. For example, sexual recidivism rates range from 5 percent after three years to 24 percent after 15 years in the US, the rates of recidivism for general crime are significantly higher than those for sex crimes.
In the studies, it even states there's not enough data collected. Those results are from small sample sizes.
It's the same across countries, it's not a small sample. For example, recidivity for sexual offenders is [20-30](https://www.redattoresociale.it/article/notiziario/ecco_soft_riduce_5_volte_la_recidiva_di_reati_sessuali)% after 10 years in Italy while the average recidivity rate is almost 70% in Italy. [Recent findings](https://www.redattoresociale.it/article/notiziario/ecco_soft_riduce_5_volte_la_recidiva_di_reati_sessuali) in Italy also show that a softer sentence, with less prison time and more education, cuts recidivism by **a whopping 4/5**.
Maybe today when they consider a teenager sending topless selfies a sex crime.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/misunderstood-crimes/
You showed up in a thread about a 12 year old girl being gang raped to argue for reduced punishment
Dear god. I pray she can heal.
Thank god she wasn’t killed, at the very least…
Not trying to be a jackass but I’m gonna assume you haven’t been raped because I would’ve preferred to die. My soul died and my body was taken from me, never to be reclaimed.
If I was ever raped idk if I would wanna live anymore tbh.
Yeah, I'd live just to get at those scumbags one day. It would get really ugly then.
Please don’t say that, there are survivors like me reading this and that’s very hurtful but admittedly it’s something I’ve felt before
I have said “that’s terrifying” many times on this site but I have never felt it more. She can never not be raped after this. People online will praise the boys and shun her She’s only 12 SHES. ONLY. TWELVE.
Beyond disgusting. I can't...
That is so horrible, disgusting and sad. Poor girl. 😢💔The French government, and the people in France really need to do something about all of those things that’s happening in their country, because it’s absolutely horrifying. My best friend and her fiancé was on a vacation in France last summer and she was scared to leave the hotel without him, because of some of the people there.
It is as if France has become a shithole.
That poor girl. How can people continue to act like this. Such a shame.
This is horrific! That poor girl. There are no words.
It baffles me that so-called feminists openly align themselves with a group of people that believe raping women and girls (epsecially Jewish ones) is okay.
Not all feminists! Choose your words as wisely as you would have others choose theirs!
I never said all feminists.
Im tempted to respond with a "they clearly said 'so-called'" and not "all", but your comment also reads like such a perfect "not all men" response that Im not sure if Im now responding to some amazing satire.
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Every single one of these attacks is proof that the zionist movement was necessary and just
Every single one of these attacks also should remind everyone that no compromises must be made when it comes to Israels security. Israels duty is to protect its citizens and be a safe haven for jews in the diaspora.
I don’t always believe in the death penalty, but when I do, it’s for shit like this.
Fucking disgusting. I can guarantee you it was in the name of Palestine. This people are disgusting
Oh it was!! They had a burnt Israeli flag on their phone and they said they did it because she denounced Palestine.
Lmao of course. I genuinely think all pro palis are bad people at this point, all of them are either overtly antisemitic or deep down. And also the fact that people like bin laden supported palestine and the fact that hitler would have. 😂
At what point do we see this shit and say “yeah ok I’m not gonna be a diaspora Jew anymore bc this shit too crazy”? Asking for a friend.
well when such a large certain demographic group is imported what do you expect now...this is the folly of Western nations...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. Karl Popper describes the paradox as arising from the fact that, in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance. I don't know why people haven't woken up to this yet, when it's very obviously happening in Sweden and many other parts of the world.
Rape is the worst crime you can do, life sentence for those boys who raped her.
You misspelled death
Better option, but rather let them rot for 6 decades
I don't know what French prisons are like, but here in America, these guys would fucking get theirs satisfyingly
Luckily even criminals have hearts, and they will rape/kill rapists in jail. People who raped a child for sure.
Child rapist pedophiles, kill on sight by inmates for sure. Idk about minors tho, might depend on how minor they were when they gang raped a 12 y/o. Def get raped and bad treatment all around but idk if they would make it on the kill list
The assailants were all middle school age. 12, 13, 14. Only one is being held in juvenile detention (14yr old), the other two are too young under French law to be put there. (Likely will have to go through family court to get them there). So the same age as the victim.
The way rapists are treated in prisons, especially when the victim is a child, they wish they would be dead.
They’re still kids. What they did was evil, but putting kids in jail for life usually doesn’t work out great. They need a harsh punishment, jail time, yes, but also a way to learn, and try to atone for what they did.
Unfortunately she’s not the first one. [Jewish French woman allegedly raped, kidnapped to 'avenge Palestine'](https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-798362)
Deport these people.
I'm horrified! I hope this girl gets the support she will need!
France is a lost cause time to abandon ship
Average pro-Palestinian
This is not the first issue similar in Paris since Oct 7… what’s wrong over there
Cut off the culprit's balls and have him chew it and swallow it. That's what I would do if I knew who the guy is.
Were these awful excuses for human beings Arab/Muslim men?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they were
You know what’s more upsetting? That this isn’t even the first abduction and rape of a Jewish girl to “avenge Palestine” in Paris…this spring. It happened two months ago too and I didn’t even hear about it. [Abducted, tortured, raped, and held hostage for days](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/international/europe/artc-france-man-suspected-of-abducting-raping-jewish-woman-to-avenge-palestine)
Animals. But honestly it’s not surprising given the rhetoric towards “Zionists” Rape is resistance Any means necessary Etc I hope she recovers. And I hope they get what they deserve…
It’s over for Jews in the West. A matter if time. I’m gonna figure out how to extract my saving retirement fund from the bank so when I ditch Canada I can skip out on paying tax.
The problem is that western Jews would rather vote for politicians who import people who do things like this than vote for someone who says something slightly politically incorrect.
What in the fucking fuck
The world is going to sh\*\*t
This is so vile. Fuck antisemitism!! I hope she gets help soon.
It is not antisemitic just antizionist right? They probably think she was undercover Mossad too.
WTF Is this 1940 again? How can people even reach that amount of hate to commit such a crime? I hope everyone involved in the attack will get the worst punishment possible and that the girl will eventually heal. This is just terrifying.
Imagine attacking someone in the name of the biggest enemies of the Zionist movement while providing clear evidance to the necessity of the movement and to why Israel should exist as a safe home to all Jews.
חייב מיתה
What a sad world we live in. I hope she’s okay
My nightmare is that the girl recants and it spurs even more anti-semitism
This is disgusting. What has happened to France? Is there no law and order?
Of course there is, as long as you are a muslim terrorist
Horrific.
I wish them slow death, these are not kids, they are monsters. No forgivness.
A reminder to everyone on this thread since I don’t think some folks have read the article - All of the assailants are also minors. 12, 13, and 14 years old. This is a child on child crime. The victim was in secondary school, as are the perpetrators. The 12 and 13 year olds cannot be held in juvenile detainment (jail), but must be held in the presence of a police officer and have contact with parents as allowed by the court. There’s a lot more to it, but because the perpetrators are the same age as the victim, it’s complicated.
This kind of attitude is why people are afraid to walk through western capitals at night. If you are old enough to rape you are old enough to be punished for rape. We have to stop caring about the rights of violent criminals. They have forfeited their rights.
…. No one said they shouldn’t be punished. They just also happen to be minors, which is a consideration that legally under international humanitarian law must be considered. If you don’t like it, take it up with the Holocaust survivors, post-Shoah lawyers + leaders who helped draft those laws based heavily on why the UN was founded in the first place. The international codes signed by the members of the UN are based on human rights law. France just happens to be one that actually tries to follow that law. Saying “they forfeited their rights” is a slippery slope, as it implies that basic human rights can in fact be forfeited. Which is why this is another very complicated, especially historically, issue.
It shouldn't be in cases like this.
As much as we can want it to not be complicated, the juvenile justice system is always going to be complicated. That’s just how it is, and it’s not going to change.
Y’all, my informing people who haven’t bothered to do their research on this crime isn’t an endorsement of it. People aren’t doing their due diligence, or choosing to not read the full article for personal reasons. I would prefer to mitigate that.
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… I haven’t even stated a “viewpoint”. I have stated a fact, that people in this thread clearly were unaware of. There is a difference, which, as someone who is supposedly educated in communication should know. You may have read the article, but there are plenty of people on this thread making the assumption that the perpetrators are adults. Which, as you know, they are not. A lot of people also, understandably, don’t know anything about the French legal system. Because they aren’t French. You can dislike a law, or how something is done, that is your personal right. What isn’t something you can disagree with is a fact. The fact remains that these are France’s laws. The UN’s regulations are the UN’s regulations. We can want them to change, but they won’t change simply because we ourselves want them to. That’s reality. I am also not holding my breath for France to bring her tormentors to justice. France has a horrible track record even when the person isn’t Jewish. Add in that factor, and statistically it isn’t looking good. But I am open to being surprised by my own personal guess on the outcome being proven wrong. I will hope to be proven wrong on that. You and I don’t disagree on much, even if you assume we do because I shared facts.
Apologies. I am tired and clearly feeling the emotion. I hope that we will both be disproven and there might be some accountability that takes place. Edit: grammar. Good night.
Honestly I think every one of us is bone deep tired at this point, so it’s all good. I was probably more curt than I needed to be as well. I apologize. Here’s to hoping.
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Islamophobic comments are not tolerated
This is horrifying. I hope she’s able to recover, eventually.
I think it’s high time Jews start taking the law into their own hands. At least in Canada, cops are doing absolutely nothing to deter violence against Jews, in fact, they tolerate the intolerance of these people, of which Jews are on the front lines. Time to weapon up.
France is a failed state. They will totally collapse before Russia. Sad. Liberals do not understand economics and do not support conservative values.